Monster Melee - Mind Flayer vs. Drow Mage

[@AndrewJohnson-oy8oj]

Ironically, these are both creatures who normally would never travel alone and whose first instinct would be to retreat to a situation where they had more support.

[@purplehaze2358]

I think it's hilarious how effortlessly the mind flayer bodied the drow mage in that first round.

[@esperthebard]

If only you'd seen the "off camera" rematch I did between the adult white dragon and the beholder. Similar thing, the dragon just obliterated the beholder in 3 rounds.

[@Homjos_Erhas]

"i think we're gonna have to do a best out of three" lol

[@TigerTeamForever]

Absolute mopping!

[@esperthebard]

"Why was the drow mage taking the Hide action (rolling Stealth while invisible)?" Invisibility only means you are unseen. You still make sound and can be heard. The Hide action (Stealth) can be used to move silently. Also keep in mind environmental factors, such as soft ground where you'd still leave tracks, or a loud noise in which enemies wouldn't feasibly be able to hear you anyhow. Furthermore, if an enemy can't see you, that provides a number of benefits. If it knows the space to attack, it still has disadvantage on the attack roll. Many spells and effects require the caster to see the target in order to use them. If you are invisible, you have advantage on attack rolls against creatures (because they cannot see you). When the mindflayer's levitate ended, it shouldn't have fallen and taken damage. At the very bottom of the levitate spell, it says that when the spell ends, the target floats gently to the ground if it is still aloft. I totally overlooked that! Well, the mind flayer still won.

[@SirKnico]

Shouldn't the Drow roll stealth with advantage because of being invisible? Or the Mind Flayer roll perception with Disadvantage? Also, I think that when levitate ends, the creature who is lifted floats down gently into the ground without hurting themselves. Very entertaining vid, by the way!

[@gyrozeppeli8738]

Why was the mind flayer able to chase around the drow when the stealth checks were passed and the greater invisibility was still up? Was the ground giving his position away? Why would two very intelligent creatures ultimate plan to stand 30ft. apart and sling abilities at each other?

[@BLynn]

Shouldn't the drow have been be restricted to half-movement to maintain the stealth it was operating under?

[@esperthebard]

@BLynn Oddly enough, in 5e, during combat, Stealth and remaining hidden do not require moving at half speed.

[@esperthebard]

@SirKnico Invisible doesn't cause advantage to Stealth or disadvantage to Perception. Good catch on the levitate spell though, I never noticed that!

[@samuelmiles4020]

I like the 'best 2 out of 3' set up and the alternating initiative, really gives us an idea of their abilities, how differently the battle goes depending on who goes first!

[@mammonclarke]

The Monster vs. Monster series is great.

[@jamesknapp64]

So much AGREED. I watched the Dragon vs Beholder and forgot to comment so I had to watch this one to comment and boosterino the video

[@sidecharacter7165]

War Priest vs 2 Hydras has me wondering.

[@Gnome5150]

It usually takes about three drow to take down one mind flayer a lower level meat shield and assassin and a equal level cleric or mage

[@Jeromy1986]

I'm also thinking about how this is a predator hunting its intended prey. I don't know if the Drow was meant to kill its pursuer logically.

[@AbstractTraitorHero]

@@Jeromy1986 I mean logically, we lose to our prey sometimes & it's clear the mind flayer is def an ambush predator. The drow mage put up a hel of a fight when cornered.

[@LoarvicLoarvic]

Well, mind flayers are never alone too. At least two thralls accompany them.

[@nathanmarcano3171]

Perhaps a battle of ancients? Red Dragon vs. Storm Giant Alternatively, a battle royale of Elementals, Air, Earth, Fire, and Water, duking it out for mastery of the planes?

[@absolut5head101]

this dude done predicted everything lmfao

[@EaterOfBeholders]

Thanks for going with my suggestion!! This was a surreal match for sure. Keep up the good work!

[@windspast]

painful to see an intellect based character failing all of those intelligence saves. That be how it is sometimes

[@joydjinn8692]

It make no sense to me that the Drow mage doesn't have proficiency in INT saves. An elven wizard with a 17 intelligence should have that at the very least.

[@esperthebard]

@@joydjinn8692 I'm also a bit puzzled why the mage/drow mage doesn't have the wizard save proficiencies of Int and Wis.

[@CyberPunkBadGuy]

@@esperthebard guess thats the diffrene from player characters and npc/monsters

[@schwann145]

"BeCaUsE iT's NoT a WiZaRd!" ... Sorry, That's not directed at anyone. More like me mocking all the internet debaters who use that logic all the time. 😂 We all know it's a Wizard, no one should care that it doesn't explicitly say so.

[@LoarvicLoarvic]

​@@CyberPunkBadGuy Nah, WOTC gamedesigners just like "why he'd have a proficiency on that, his hatural score is enough", not understanding that it's not a matter of scores, but lore, or more precisely, common sense.

[@Jodien37]

Drow mage doesn't even have proficiency in Intelligence saves, which is hillarious. Perfect example of a badly designed monster. The mind flayer is easily 2 CR above the drow.

[@paperknigth2263]

I actually was expecting this series to be a list comparing the two monsters to find which is stronger, but the whole simulation battle makes it a lot more objective and truthfull with the sourse material.

[@primeemperor9196]

Suggestion: Pit Fiend vs Balor. Abyss vs The Hells!

[@esperthebard]

Excellent suggestion

[@jamesknapp64]

@@esperthebard can't wait ;)

[@schwann145]

You'd think that would be a good matchup, but the Pit Fiend has too many advantages. Higher HP. Better DR that actually gets applied. The Balor can fail to the Fear Aura while the Pit Fiend is immune to the Fire Aura It's Pit Fiend for the win pretty handily.

[@TYBERIUS777]

Very fun seeing this series continue! Would love to see an Umber Hulk and a Bulette face off and see a burrowing battle. It could also be really fun to see a CR tournament (like all monsters of a certain CR facing off in an elimination match with a randomized bracket and see who comes out on top). A second commentator or someone running one monster and you running the other could be interesting too. Awesome series man, keep up the good work!

[@targetdreamer257]

OOOOO! Yes! We want a turny arch.

[@internetcatfish]

The behirs were created to fight dragons right? So let's see one fight a dragon.

[@NecroDevistator]

Why doesn't the mind flayer use detect thoughts to locate the mage?

[@fall3n_knight]

I'm sure people already pointed it out. But MInd Blast does no damage on a successful save. When the Mind Flayer hit the Drow with the tentacle in the second fight, another Int save should have been made and failing that, the Drow would be stunned indefinitely as long as they were grappled. Detect thoughts would be an excellent tool for the mind flayer to hear the thoughts of invisible creatures. And then lastly, in the second fight at the end you made it seem like the mind blast only had 30 ft range when it has 60ft. Overall though, I enjoyed the mock battle and will probably look in on the channel. Good energy and tactics overall.

[@AbstractTraitorHero]

That second fight I'd actually watch an animation of, had a lot of fun storytelling & I think showcased the vanity & pride of the drow mage & the mindflayer pretty well as characters. The mindflayer I imagine if he could not reach the drow with that mindblast probably would have planeshifted.

[@Honeyguts88]

@@AbstractTraitorHero yeah the illithid would've said 'screw this', and just left

[@banaman7746]

​@@Honeyguts88 The drow mage, being the sole survivor of a party venturing deep into mindflayer territory, saw something he shouldn't have, and the mindflayer needs that information for a plan the colony is depending on, but can't afford to spare any more than the one mindflayer, but that should be plenty. the mindflayer cuts the drow mage off in the spider caves and the drow knows its only chance is to fight back because the only way out from the mindflayer's territory is through said mindflayer. just throwing a possible setting out there.

[@maxblake5564]

Just so you know, Esper, when the Levitate spell ends, the spell description says that the target floats safely to the ground, meaning the Mind Flayer shouldn’t have taken that fall damage.

[@esperthebard]

@maxblake5564 That was something I overlooked 😅 I put it in the pinned comment. Good thing it didn't kill the mind flayer.

[@User-wo3nj]

​@@esperthebard that would be funny and cause drama in the comments LOL

[@liamconnelly3115]

I knew this episode was gonna be a Stomp. There was no way the mindflayer would lose.

[@esperthebard]

If the drow mage had succeeding in summoning the shadow demon, he would have been the mind flayer.

[@liamconnelly3115]

@esperthebard that was the one win condition I could think of for the drow mage. The mindflayers' magic resistance and it's stuns was a sure fire win, in my books at least.

[@cah0261]

The mind flayer doesn't know where the drow is, but takes cover in the right spot.

[@AngeloWindblow]

exactly what i thought

[@sgtflintlock6904]

Has Shield changed since I last played 5e? I could have sworn that it applied for the whole round after you used it, not against only a single attack.

[@Chronos73189]

No its a mistake from OP, the shield last until the the start of your next turn

[@jamescampbell2353]

I’d love to see a Githzerai Enlightened versus Ulithard or Illithid Vampire

[@primeemperor9196]

Counter-offer: Githzerai Anarch vs Githyanki Supreme Commander.

[@jamescampbell2353]

@@primeemperor9196 gith civil war!

[@user-hr5di5fg8b]

You should do a tournament style for the CR ranks

[@maximusinvictus8802]

The second time before the mind flayer used his mind blast, the drow mage vould have retreated to a much better and safer place, looking at your map..

[@chalkeater1427]

I love when I use my action to hide and the enemy immediately gets to use the search action against me outside of its turn and without actually spending it's action.

[@AbstractTraitorHero]

I reccomend reading the monsters know what they are doing for this kind of series!

[@tylerbarnick8750]

Mindflayers are effing brutal.

[@DmDungeonMastery]

This is a great series Esper! Very original, keep it up! love the content, question for you: How do you rule stealth checks and invisibility? The opposing creature can check every turn to see if it hears the invisible party? and then the party re-rolls its stealth every time? Also my vote for a monster is the Fomorian!

[@esperthebard]

I just use standard 5e rules. Hide and Search are both actions. Opposed checks only happen when someone takes one of those actions.

[@jakewarman7277]

You don't make the creature re-roll their stealth check when a creature searches for a hidden creature

[@abelsampaio389]

@@esperthebard the initial stealth check becomes the DC for all later perception checks. Also, casting a spell with verbal components (misty step) reveals the caster

[@drew_and_dragons]

Enjoying the series, if nothing else to learn about running the monsters via watching you run them. That beholder got veryyy lucky lol Love the content and thanks for all you do!!

[@redshadowblade8]

Request: would you be able to do rakshasa vs. vampire, or otyugh vs. troll?

[@arnijulian6241]

otyugh vs. troll seems more equal & interesting. rakshasa having ''Damage Immunities Bludgeoning, Piercing, and Slashing from Nonmagical Attacks'' means the Vampires unarmed attacks will do nothingt & only the bites necrotic damage will do anything. Vampires without ghouls or something else in the mix like bat swarms or something are always underwhelming.

[@arnijulian6241]

Never understood how a Vampire is a Cr 13 as it is 11 at best. Cr 15 Vampire spell caster at least has some spells to use making it far more versatile. Vampire Spawn Cr 5 has always delivered far more feeling far more Cr appropriate. Vampire Spawn with a few CR 1 Ghouls always is a welcome addition. (Vampire spawn vs Night) hag would be more interesting as the difference is not a immense as the ''rakshasa vs. vampire'' you mentioned.

[@johngleeman8347]

Roper vs. salamander would be pretty funny.

[@arnijulian6241]

​@@johngleeman8347 like it but the roper 10 feet movement is a real limitation. salamander 60 foot spear range & it's heated body + 7 damage in 5 feet with +3 damage to all melee attacks is a lot of damage. Kite or grapple the salamander wins. You do know the salamander has ''Damage Resistances Bludgeoning, Piercing, and Slashing from Nonmagical Attacks'' So effectively the salamander has double the Hp of the roper. This is not even a competition. Salamander will win 100% of the time.

[@arnijulian6241]

​@@johngleeman8347 ''Salamander'' vs (Wraith) would be interesting as both are 2 of the more dangerous Cr5 monsters. Cr 5Barbed devil is powerful but immunity to fire is not fair against a ''Salamander''

[@geoaltman9344]

These are super cool... especially bc Ive never played DnD and it's neat to see how combat actually works!

[@pzalterias5154]

Well that was an horror movie ! Never rooted for a drow this much !

[@Jeromy1986]

On that note, near the end I was thinking that the best tactic for the Illithid could be to just lurk silently and let the Drow either drop its guard or panic.

[@Snowie7826]

Moving out of cover at the end was a gamble on the Flayer's part. I wouldn't have risked it if I were him 😅

[@gyrozeppeli8738]

Why was the mind flayer able to chase around the drow when the stealth checks were passed and the greater invisibility was still being concentrated on, was the ground soft? Or did he make sound? Is that not what the stealth check was for?

[@arcturuslight_]

Just by using common sense and following the last known position. Keep in mind that the mage kept revealing itself when casting lightning and ray of frost.

[@hauntedhovel]

Love this new series! I am looking forward to future episodes! Go Drow Mage!

[@anthonyiwancio5891]

Great Idea for a series Esper. Looking forward to more

[@seannicolson136]

Fun! I think the mage should have had to make some perception checks too. The mind flayer wasn't invisible, but they were well out of sight for some of that combat. Mind you, I don't think the mind flayer even attempted stealth. I guess they didn't think it was worth the effort. Turns out, they were right.

[@samuelciprispuches9548]

Love these, as a AD&D 2e DM I would love to see avatars from Faiths and Avatars, Monster Mythology and other books clash!

[@benhover9604]

That fist run, wow. I did like this fight better even though it was more one sided because the terrainmade more of a difference in this one. It definetly mattered that they were in a spider cave.

[@DigitalReplicaOfAPerson]

This series is fantastic! I love seeing the beasties giving their best against each other. Great setup as well with the best of three -combat, evens out the odds from bad rolls. I would also like to see how you would use something like a small band of goblins/kobolds in their own cave against an intruding, higher-CR monster that would decimate a single one in a head-to-head fight.

[@AbstractTraitorHero]

Wow this was a great idea, I love how this feels.

[@Gargantupimp]

That was great thanks Esper. That psychic blast is very powerful.

[@archam777]

This is a great series....I'm really surprised that noone has ever done anything like it.

[@JaydenRowland-d8x]

mind flayer has detect thoughts at will the less used effect of this is "You can also use this spell to detect the presence of thinking creatures you can't see. When you cast the spell or as your action during the duration, you can search for thoughts within 30 feet of you. The spell can penetrate barriers, but 2 feet of rock, 2 inches of any metal other than lead, or a thin sheet of lead blocks you. You can't detect a creature with an Intelligence of 3 or lower or one that doesn't speak any language. Once you detect the presence of a creature in this way, you can read its thoughts for the rest of the duration as described above, even if you can't see it, but it must still be within range." so if you get close while hiding or invisible it knows where you are and where ever you thick of moving to

[@wuffy8006]

This looks really cool. Can you do stuff like level 20 (class) vs level 20 (class)? I want to see all kinds of cool what if fights, like level 20 wizard vs a level 10 wizard and level 10 cleric, etc etc. even if they are squash matches, this sort of thing is really neat! I am subscribed!

[@serheimakarov8679]

I imagine the ‘summon demon’ feature is less ‘he has perfect control over the demon’ and more the demon sensing the battle and showing up saying “‘ey, what are you doing to MY pet drow?”

[@austin2994]

Vaguely remember in some obscure forgotten realms novel, wizard destroys a mindflayer by electrocution during a brain extraction attempt

[@tkc1129]

Good new series concept, Esper. I feel like Perception checks should favor the one hiding at longer distances. Like a -1 malus to Perception checks for every 10 feet.

[@chazzle3459]

Mindflayers are just deadly as hell for their CR.

[@MawsParasite2]

Score two for th' Abberations!

[@johnnywalker6808]

Man that was great! Bravo! Thank you❤

[@Homjos_Erhas]

Have you ever read "The Monsters Know What They're Doing"? Its some pretty decent tactical analysis of monster statblocks. could be insightful for some of these battles

[@LoarvicLoarvic]

Yeeaah! Finally, someone brough this up! I think it's a must-read for all DMs out there.

[@franklinrichards8851]

Issue I have with this is that how do they also know what the cave is like and there are no webs where they are going. I mean if they both enter and there are webs did the scope everything out and know every nook and cranny of the cave? And I know if I seen all them webs I would be in fear of a giant spider also. That would have been nice to see a random roll of a large spider ambushing one of them in the middle of the fight.

[@The_Squatch_97]

Battle of the Basic Boys: a Battle Royal of Human Fighters. Two feats of your selection. One of each subclass. Any level. Half are Dexterity Based, and the rest are Strength based. Other idea: Necromancy Wizard vs. Death Cleric. The twist: they have amassed a small battalion of undead. One has Skeletons, the other Zombies. For the sake of an even fight, the minions are of equivelant CR

[@loganfrandrup6590]

Maybe this might be a bit big for the next fight, but it could be some fun, maybe a battle royal between the 4 Genies? Marid Vs Efreeti Vs Djinni Vs Dao Same CR, slightly different spells and abilities.

[@omegawolf363]

I didn't know i needed this in my life

[@RizoKobold]

I feel the invisibility was completely useless. the mind flayer knew where the drow was every time. shouldn't the mind flayer have to do a perception check to hear the drow moving?

[@joydjinn8692]

Very nice! Do you take suggestions? If yes, here's mine: Gladiator (MM) vs Hill Giant (MM)

[@chrismiller9292]

Once he barely escaped the mind flayer's grapple, I started pulling for the drow mage to tie up the best of 3 but it just added to the drama as the mind flayer stalked him down.

[@jamesmks]

Great content, i like seeing battles not on a flat grey plane, and with good tactics

[@mystiosmystios2534]

What a pleasure to watch ! Thank you ! :)

[@MandalorV7]

This is like D&D Deadliest Warrior. I think an underwater battle could be fun.

[@danielzarkos]

2:23 Shield would give +5 AC until the start of the caster's next turn. So could be more than one attack

[@louisdepointedulac5072]

Great series. Cant wait to see more. Mby a Goliath vs a Cyclops or Giant next?

[@DMwithoutPCs]

Ooh this went in a different direction then i thought! I like it

[@rememberstayangry2366]

After the intro I will guess mind flayer.

[@arnijulian6241]

was entertaining, but was it really a fair competition? Mind flayers are feared by most parties for a reason.

[@Franco1395]

Agreed, post intro Mind Flayer.

[@Miggy19779]

@@arnijulian6241 Well they are the same CR! The problem is the b*llshit with how the the drow mage is statted - it should have prof on int saves which would give it a +6 instead of +3 (even though the CR monster system is dumb, as a lvl 9 mage it should have +4 prof mod and it should have more than +3 int mod (by lvl 9 you should have 18 or 20) which would give it +8 or +9 to the int save, but that's a separate rant.

[@arnijulian6241]

​@@Miggy19779 Should have, could have, would have. Cr system is all over the place honestly as most Cr are underwhelming at their value or just over the top. Drow mage should be Cr 6 & mind flayer Cr 8 or even 9. Treant in Cr 9 would probably lose to a mind Flayer at Cr 7. Bone Devil vs Mind flayer is pretty close by my reckoning. Stun, grapple & psychic damage is rarely resisted or immune for all 3. Mind flayer is rather versatile even if only 71 Hp.

[@Morzanith]

Pure Wizards and Sorcerers are typically not a 1v1 duel class. Especially against a Mind Flayer? Even legendary spell casters wouldn't walk into a 1v1 with a Mind Flayer and think nothing of it.

[@MethosJK9]

I'd like to see a Shambling Mound vs. a Gibbering Mouther

[@Jeromy1986]

I don't have a whole lot of clever suggestions presently. Maybe have an Underworld scenario of a werewolf vs. a vampire?

[@primeemperor9196]

The werewolf wouldn't be able to harm the vampire without some running water or sunlight nearby.

[@User-wo3nj]

​@primeemperor9196 maybe there is a twist to these weaknesses in MONSTEROUS HEROS, certainly worth checking out.

[@rainbowpixel_4145]

Curious to see how this would go if the drow used different tactics, like bringing out the demon once it got away from the illithid

[@JMSouchak]

Gotta love the sound effects for the spells!

[@orionslatten3246]

Dragon Turtle vs. Kraken, SEA DUEL!

[@walterlane5069]

Love these combat episodes

[@quasarsword7479]

We used to this in 2e darksun campaign

[@migueldelmazo5244]

Darksun...awesome. Not seeing that setting making a comeback in modern D&D. It had too many features that don't support the sensitivities of WOTC.

[@quasarsword7479]

@@migueldelmazo5244 yeah it was literally designed around a touchy subject. Best campaign I’ve ever played

[@dave-daveson]

Love these kind of videos! :D

[@user-nz7dd3sg5c]

Great video as always

[@User-wo3nj]

Excellent match! I would love to see some EEE monsters fight in the arena if possible. Obaridan vs Doomslaught Minotaur Or Obaridon vs Tyra Tavoros

[@SuperGamefreak18]

Im just imagining the Mindflayer isnt even moving that fast, like he's moving quickly to get its meal but is probably walking for most of it

[@ANIMOUS8]

Cool battle. That poor drow had some terrible rolls lol. I think I would have judged that a levitating creature has disadvantage on Dex saving throws since it can't move horizontally very well. This would at least cancel out the advantage it had.

[@TonyPuleo1]

Not a criticism at all, in fact these videos are excellent. My only thoughts would be, that a Drow of that level would have a couple of magic items to use towards its advantage.

[@midshipman8654]

this is a really cool series idea! might also be fun with a second player so you don’t have to reverse engineer as much metagame speculative knowledge and tactics stuff. maybe even a third as a dm.

[@m3w]

Perfect! Please keep up this series!

[@BDTMack]

Great video! I really enjoyed it!

[@ewokrothaar8434]

Impressive. Very nice.

[@morielrorschach8090]

I think the flaw here was the meta knowledge of playing both characters. Even with greater invisibility and good stealth rolls, the mindflayer always knew exactly where he was. Seems like the drow could have made more offensive choices than prioritizing concentration on the spell that really wasn't doing anything. Bigby's clenched fist could have kept slapping him around as the mage evaded?

[@TonyPuleo1]

Suggestion video - 3 standard Minotaurs vs. powerful 9th level Barbarian.

[@djlane74]

Pythagoras enters the chat on that last mind blast attacks range . Maybe ?

[@esbenandersen2168]

I think it would be cool to do a tournament with a proper knockout bracket. Also, maybe a mob of lower level creatures against a Big Bad?

[@robertnilsson1988]

Feel like you are giving the Drow A LOT of leeway with walking through "rough" terrain without penelty, later on misty step through a wall to a good location. Though it was LoS with where u could go. This is a one sided fight tbh in favor of the mind flayer.

[@LetMeGetAUhhh]

nothing more awesome than evil vs evil

[@davidmorgan5726]

I just found this series and like it. With that said, the killing mind blast in the second battle would have fallen short. While the drow was 60 feet away linearly, she was also elevated. Using triangulation, she would have been just out of range.

[@redfaux74]

You would think an Illythid would be able to sense thoughts in a decent area, especially if they KNOW they are there anyway. I would also think an Illythid would be able to levitate naturally, without concentration.

[@pzalterias5154]

You should do a tournament by CR ! Infinite content 😄

[@Royalemperorblue]

I could watch a thousand of these.

[@User-wo3nj]

Wargwraith vs Host of Angels Would be awesome (The CR is not exact, but maybe we could offset that with the environment or items?)

[@zielj5131]

4 matches I want to see are: purple worm vs mummy lord in a desert terrain. solar vs. Molydeus vampire vs war priest hill giant vs gladiator(colosseum style)

[@miggypeso909]

I wish we could do this with creatures and monsters from other games. Of course outside D&D will have to be converted but there’s usually conversion tables all over the net for every game. I’d like to see a Psy Stalker from Rifts take on a Drow Warrior or Sasha Vykos vs Strahd.

[@malrec]

What is the point of invisibility if the guy can just follow you anyway?

[@MrJormun]

Id love to see an Arcanaloth vs something, I used 1 arcanaloth as GM vs my party and it totally floored them, that 60 feet on demand teleport + natural flying ment that he could be 90 feet from the party at turn 1 and casts spells at a safe distance (naturally this was in an open area where he could simply teleport + fly towards the sky)

[@loganfrandrup6590]

Don't mind me, just going to use this as a base on how I want to introduce a Mind Flayer for my next campagin coming up. Should make for an interesting show x)