Monsters Tier List ft The Last Alliance of Noobs and Men - Middle Earth Strategy Battle Game | MESBG

[@intothewestpodcast]

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[@NoobsandMen]

We absolutely appreciate the invite to join you lads for this tier list. It was an absolute blast. Hopefully a batrep in the near future -Sean

[@HodgePodgeHobbies]

lads this is the greatest cross over the world has been blessed by! 🙌

[@giovdb]

I just got second place in a 12-person 400-point tournament and my force was just Sauron. I did get lucky with the scenario draws though. But still, better than I was expecting. It was a meme moment though when the single Numenorean Warrior beat him in a fight and proceed to roll a 6 followed by a 6.

[@intothewestpodcast]

Lol I would hate to have gone up against that at a tournament 😂

[@giovdb]

@@intothewestpodcast The first game I played in this tournament was Contest of Champions, so yeah… lol. Second one was Domination, so lost that one. Last one was To the Death against 40 goblins. He employed the famous goblin strategy of “run and hide!” I ended up breaking him and winning with a minute left on the clock. It was intense. Lol

[@smoothbrush4722]

good stuff as always :D i'll put sauron higher a bit nice stream.

[@giovdb]

Awesome video. I learned a lot, like usual. Minor correction: at around 1:05:25, the guys says that the trolls could put Sauron in a sack with the save them for later brutal power attack. That isn't true for Sauron because he's not man-sized. EDIT: This is addressed in the video, so ignore me lol

[@intothewestpodcast]

I think we’d see the three trolls a lot more if they could put anyone in a sack! -Charles

[@intothewestpodcast]

Whose take on the Spider Queen do you agree with more, Noobs or ITW?

[@thgsMASK]

I think at 400-500 points Burhdhur does very well as your leader, went 4-0 with him at an event. Him and a barrow wight can just deal with so many things for 160 points. Think 3 might and less points makes him a bit better than the mordor chief despite the lower stats. Fun list though, good vid.

[@intothewestpodcast]

In this case, it would be the Super troll chief in the LL... But I hear you, it's close, Burdhur is very good! -Richard

[@Malisteen]

shame about the balrog. lore-wise it should be a lot scarier than it is.

[@strangersun7721]

I think Watcher is Legend tier. He's impossible to deal with in so many situations and scenarios. The Watcher and the bears are the models I like to see across the table the least.

[@intothewestpodcast]

Yeah, he really is one of the toughest models to go against if the controller knows what they're doing with him! Also, helps most players haven't really had extensive experience playing against him. -Richard

[@chimichunguss]

OMG YASSSS. It’s finally happened. But somehow my brain is not ready for these planets to collide. Love the bromance guys!

[@Badentrotter]

I think the main thing that drops Gwaihir down from a Legend to Valor is that only Eagle/wizards can benefit from his heroic actions… Depending on your points level played it can come up quite a lot and is also one of the things that other comparable heroes like Treebeard let’s say don’t suffer from. I still think he’s one of the best models on the game for his points but he’s not always worth breaking your army bonus for

[@intothewestpodcast]

That's a really good point, though in my experience Gwaihir's might is mostly saved for his combats anyway. I think when we are making the comparison to Treebeard, it's the difference of 50 points and the mobility. Treebeard has better raw stats but can easily be fed chaf and isn't much of a threat for objective taking. -Richard

[@JMACCSArmiesOfMiddleEarth]

The wind Turkey is Legend hands down if you can play him right. The two attacks suck but if you play it right and support him with other heros you should be getting the 3 most of the time. Also defos happy to drop the army bonus for almost all armies to get him in. Loth is one of the best with Gladdy, even funnier if its high points and u get the mirror so he flys about with infinite fate.

[@intothewestpodcast]

1000% agree!! Lothlorien ally is the way I play Gwaihir. The bird bath is hilarious but prob not worth cheesing with until 1000 points lol. I think the main changes I'd make to this list personally would be Gwaihir and Spider Queen to Legend, then I'd be happy. -Richard

[@JMACCSArmiesOfMiddleEarth]

@Into the West Podcast Yeh spider queen is defos a legend. The kill potential is just huge along with shenanigans you can pull off with the spider babies. I did try bird bath at 600 for a laugh and nearly won 😆

[@Glowflight]

I really enjoy the dragon and was sad that it didn't at least make it to the top of Fortitude tier (or at least above the Balrog). The four attacks and Monstrous Charge is devastating. Paired with Fly, the dragon can go where you need it to, and has a good chance to kill whatever it wants outright. Also, unlike the cave drake, the dragon can Heroic Strike. Survival Instinct brings some risk to using the dragon, but it does have Heroic Defense, 3 Fate, and 3 Will as a buffer before that happens. I don't know, it's just always done work for me (definitely more than the Balrog ever has).

[@intothewestpodcast]

In our experience the Survival Instinct is just such a detriment when the model is so expensive; good points on the tanky stats but I find due to the SI rule, you are often forced into burning a lot of resources early to prevent it. But happy the dragon has worked for you! Whenever we disagree with general consensus, we always say using models people think are terrible is to our advantage because people won't know how to play you properly when they do see it! Prove us wrong! -Richard

[@Glowflight]

@@intothewestpodcast I've never had Survival Instinct go off, but I dread the day it inevitably happens! I try to get the dragon into combat early with models I know it can overwhelm, and I definitely keep it away from bows (in the ways help a lot) until I can hit a cluster of them with Breathe Fire. Right now I'm fiddling with a Moria/Dark Powers of Dol Guldur Yellow Alliance. My reasoning is to gain access to a a war horn and banner (but mostly just the war horn) through the hunter orcs. I haven't decided if the war horn is valuable enough to drop the Moria goblin drum though (which the goblins heavily benefit from).

[@ralexy999]

@@Glowflight The Warhorn is highly beneficial for the dragon, here is an article with some math about it againstalloddsmesbg.blogspot.com/2021/01/how-to-kill-your-dragon-analysis-of.html A Dol Guldur alliance is interresting, I was think of a Mordor Alliance Dragon with fly, full goblin and a batswarm Mouth of Sauron (leader), full Black numenorean with banner and warhorn Goblin captain, full goblin and 2 warg marauders 800pt, 41 models What kind of list were you thinking ? :)

[@thehobbybreakfastshow]

Poor Treebeard- disagree about him being the worst of the Ents. Merry and Pippin upgrade gives Fangorn some really interesting shenanigans with Breakpoints and objectives. Bottom of Fortitude for me

[@intothewestpodcast]

Haha fair point, I wouldn't be opposed to a low fortitude rating. -Richard

[@Glowflight]

Alone, Sauron is one of the best monsters in the game. The problem he encounters is making his points back. 400 points is a steep investment, even for top tier spellcasting and fighting. In my opinion, his Chill Soul should never have been nerfed in the new edition (especially since the Taskmaster can no longer affect it): he's the freaking Dark Lord! I think he needs a Legendary Legion at some point, granting him at least* a free Heroic Combat each turn (similar to how the Balrog inherited the Sauron's army bonus). That would definitely help him a bit. Also Sauron just needs to be immune to fire. Isildur literally says "[the Ring] was hot when I first took it, hot as a glede, and my hand was scorched, so that I doubt if ever again I shall be free of the pain of it." So none of that dragon fire one-shotting him 😂

[@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx439]

Im struggling to picture a realistic scenario where beorn's berserk poses a real issue. I normally keep him in human form since he then has a 10.5 inch threat range with the transform so he can threaten things without being at any risk of getting charged before he transforms. You can set up in-the-way to avoid him getting shot to death and finally if you need to stay where you are at the start of his move just turn back into a human.

[@intothewestpodcast]

I don't see it as much of a detriment either as you want to be in combat most of the time. I'd imagine the only hindrance is similar to heroes with a similar rule (Dain, Theodred, etc), late game if there's enemies around, you may not gun for objectives in the opposite direction. -Richard

[@Liam_TheNoob]

Beorn has to transform at the start of his move so he's only ever an 8" threat range. no idea where you're getting 10 and a half from 😅

[@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx439]

@@Liam_TheNoob you put the bear base, which is 2.5" in base contact with his human form (doesnt have to be directly on top). AFTER that you make an 8" move. Clarified in the defense of the north FAQ

[@monkeyfoo999]

I must have missed it. Is there a limit with how heroes can alley in based on there tier (valor, legend, ect)

[@intothewestpodcast]

You need a minimum hero of Fortitude for each army in a Historical (green) alliance, and a minimum hero of Valour in a Convenient (yellow) or Impossible (red) alliance.

[@Jorfik]

Just used Tom for the first time and he's an absolute meme machine. The brutal power attack knocking people prone is downright rude, you can just have Tom tying up infantry on a side and only an absolute fool is going to get a hero in with him on purpose. Still want to paralyse then hurl someone at some point.

[@intothewestpodcast]

Haha that's awesome, sounds like I definitely need to give him a go! -Richard

[@crispycritter9163]

What I want to know is can Sauron beat Nagash or Mazdamundi ?

[@intothewestpodcast]

I don't know anything about Warhammer but Sauron easily -Richard

[@mtuktuk9627]

awesome crossover :)

[@intothewestpodcast]

Ask and you shall receive 😉 -Richard

[@totallyoriginal9741]

Sauron done dirtyyyy damn

[@ceejay4510]

Im glad my Sauron is respected

[@intothewestpodcast]

We need a Sauron feature on WARG -Richard

[@Nick02111989]

you'll have to show me how good the spider queen is one day. ;)

[@bobdown9092]

I am of the understanding that Shelob and Cirith Ungol recently won a tournament in Australia, beating the likes of Elendil, Strider and Beornings? Otherwise, i agree with a lot of these placings. I think the bears are the best hero monsters in the game now. Beorn was useless before this supplement, as he was 200p of meh. But with Monstrous charge alone he's now the most offensive model in the game, and with tanky stats to back it. Gulavar may have one extra attack (and handy support models) but boi howdy, one botched combat and you're a goner. I've only seen the spider queen at tournaments 2 or 3 times this edition? Balrog is very good, and is better in combats than sauron, but yeah a good player can hold him up. Playing paddy cakes with Galadriel!? that sounds hilarious. what happened there?

[@intothewestpodcast]

Interesting, I really liked the Cirith Ungol on paper when it first came out but it didn't play like I wanted after a few practice games but perhaps there is something there! I think it might be because a lot of people don't have the spider queen model or just don't love doing yellow alliance (which is probably the best way to play her), but I can assure you, she is top shelf! -Richard

[@Nick02111989]

haha yeah that may have been me. it was a 500p tournament. she was an absolute monster all day mate (pun intended). took on heroes and armies that far out class her. we don't seem to see the spider queen much in qld. The bears got quite a good tune up with that LL, it is beatable, but a good player like sean, is near unbeatable. I'm sure he'll correct me if he sees this, but i think he's at about 40 wins and 5 losses with them. or something to that effect. I would agree with you actually then, and also say that at the moment, they're probably the best army in the game.

[@punchyMiddleEarth]

Nooooooobssssss!

[@briarsandbantams]

The best monster in the game is the fat sausage Sean's packing in his pants

[@intothewestpodcast]

Sorry, I don't have that supplement -Richard

[@briarsandbantams]

@Into the West Podcast It's a perk for joining the Discord. Only the very most elite of supporters get it. Best $1.25 I ever spent.

[@intothewestpodcast]

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