Tier list: Moria

[@titaninthedeep]

Great video and discussion on my favorite MESBG army! Just a few thoughts. 1) The Cave Drake is one of the best monsters in the game. I've ran them in numerous tournaments and they are dreaded by nearly every opponent I face (unless they have the f'n King of the Dead). A F6 monster with 5 Attacks on the charge that can potentially do 10 S7 strikes is bananas. A Drake can one-shot almost any other hero in the game. Even if it's going 1v1 with someone like Elrond, he would be lucky to put 1 or 2 wounds on it each combat. If the Drake wins just ONE fight, it could instantly kill almost any hero in the game. I've done it many times. The Fearless bubble from their "Protect the Nest" special rule is highly underrated too. Especially if you run multiple Drakes in the same list... b/c they all get the bonus if they're within 3' of *any* of the nest markers. 2 Cave Drakes with 2 3" fearless bubbles is incredibly powerful, especially late game. 2) The Watcher in the Water is an absolute tyrant, especially when paired with a bat swarm. You can "surface" the WitW behind your goblin shield wall and place a bat swarm in direct contact with the WitW, then use the Tentacles to pull in literally any enemy hero model to where they're are touching both the Watcher and the bat swarm... you're almost guaranteed to slay them. I've done that to Isildur, Elendil, WT Boromir, the Witch-king and so many others. 3) Blackshield Captains with Axes are comically scary. I usually just burn their 2 might points up using March to try and surround one of my opponents flanks, then kamikaze them directly into the spear supports with a few spears of my own to support him. 4 S5 attacks vs trapped enemies is a lot of dead enemy models. They're not a complete waste. lol 4) I've found that the Blackshield Drummer is best used with a monster heavy army, b/c it can keep up with your monsters as they quickly move across the BF. They work well with Cave Drakes and Marauders, b/c they essentially give them Harbinger, making them a lot tougher to counter-charge. I use regular drums in Moria horde armies for the reasons you guys discussed, but I would put them in the S tier, b/c they aren't just giving Moria goblins rerolls in every fight. They're also giving all of your goblins +1 Courage and EVERY enemy within 18" -1 Courage. 2 Attack Hunter orcs are suddenly C1, having to try and charge your terror-causing Troll, Dweller, Drake, Dragon, etc. That makes a monstrous difference. (swidt?) 5) The Dweller in the Dark is not meant to be used like a Cave Troll. You don't throw them directly into your opponents lines. You use them to hit the flanks. One cheeky way to protect them is if you're using Druzhag, just surround the Dweller with some Wild Wargs. They will help get traps and keep it from getting peppered with arrows when you're working the flanks. 75 Points for a F7, Courage 7 model is absolutely insane and makes them superior to Cave Trolls b/c they can still kill multiple regular warriors and they are perfect assassins for mid-tier enemy heroes. The big base isn't a big deal if your don't over-extend and D5 can be overcame like I said or by hiding them until the lines meet. Just my 2 cents. Again, excellent video.

[@NoobsandMen]

Some fantastic points here mate! I do absolutely love the Drake, my favourite monster model tbh. I've done a similar thing to your Elrond story, just had him charge Glorfindel the entire game, never killed him, but tied him up, didn't die himself and drained all his might when he wanted to win fights. Them being 150 points is bonkers One thing I will say though is either drum will work in a monster army if all you want is the -1 terror, the terror and courage buff is battlefield wide unlike the reroll, it's so bloody good. God all this moria talk makes me wanna run them again now 😅 guess I know what army I'm taking to next games day! -Liam

[@titaninthedeep]

@@NoobsandMen Moria is so much fun b/c it's so diverse. You can play it so many different ways. I would definitely have to agree with you about the Black Shield Shamans being one of the most op shamans out there. Both Shatter and Tremor are incredibly powerful spells for a 50 point goblin.

[@NoobsandMen]

Absolutely, part of the reason I started building them when I got back into the hobby! They're so much fun.

[@josephowen4732]

Dweller does so much work for me in my list, not as much as my drake, but he is a courage 7, fight 7 distraction who can sap opponents resources. My cave drake in a recent tournament took nearly 100 ranger shots and took 1 wound and then ate about 18 rangers. He does suffer from not having strike though.

[@Alex_Stiv]

Tier lists are an awesome video idea. Always great to listen other people's thoughts about the game. Loved it guys!! Wishing you all the best!!

[@NoobsandMen]

Thanks for the kind words mate! Glad you like it

[@MrSmartDonkeyLP]

Keep these up, great videos to watch/listen to in the background to whilst painting.

[@NoobsandMen]

That's exactly the idea mate! Glad you're enjoying them!

[@lordsauron1692]

The watcher in the water is such an absolute menace. The threat of erupting anywhere on the battlefield, disrupting battle lines and oneshotting big heroes if set up properly with a batswarm is such a freaking menace. Makes your opponent extremely anxious on where to place their troops/ heroes. The psychological effect alone is so worth it.

[@NoobsandMen]

Oh absolutely, to be fair when we made this we'd not really played with or against much of the watcher but Jesus he's an absolute bastard and I hate him. At least when he's played "right". Much more fun and interesting when he's just getting stuck into a line -Liam

[@BuffaloMan1996]

I'm curious if you guys would rate the Blackshield Warrior any higher if they were still S4? Is a shame they got drop kicked to the cerb by GW with that profile and points

[@NoobsandMen]

Same points for STR 4 would definitely be an interesting prospect, I'd prefer F3 but I'd certainly consider adding a few in that case. -Liam

[@estebanlopezperdomo6705]

Great video guys I love Moria, its very strong and cheap. I normally use the 12 goblin archers with cap with bow, and believe to me, sometimes start kill some enemies like elves or dwarf by chance and the thing start to be tedious. O kill some horses, and the poor company starts to be priority xD, 2 months ago i make 2 wounds to an Ent and was hilarious lol.

[@NoobsandMen]

haha absolutely, they might have crap shoot value but it's still a str 2 bow! What I particularly love with goblin shooting is that they just dont care about blinding light, you were hitting on fives anyway, now you can move half without caring about the +1! -Liam

[@estebanlopezperdomo6705]

@@NoobsandMen ++ Strategy Battle Game (Moria) [62 Warriors, 700 Points, 21 Bow] ++ + Hero of Valour + Durbûrz, The Goblin King of Moria [15 Warriors, 155 Points] . Durbûrz, The Goblin King of Moria: Heavy Armour, Leader (Valour), Sword . Warband . . Moria Goblin Prowler: Armour, 5x Prowler, Throwing Daggers, Two-Handed Axe . . Moria Goblin Warrior: Armour, Shield, Sword, 6x Warrior . . Moria Goblin Warrior: Armour, Spear, Sword, 4x Warrior + Hero of Fortitude + Grôblog [12 Warriors, 118 Points] . Grôblog: Armour, Mithril Crown, Sword . Warband . . Moria Goblin Prowler: Armour, 4x Prowler, Throwing Daggers, Two-Handed Axe . . Moria Goblin Warrior: Armour, Shield, Sword, 4x Warrior . . Moria Goblin Warrior: Armour, Spear, Sword, 4x Warrior Moria Goblin Captain [12 Warriors, 100 Points, 12 Bow] . Moria Goblin Captain: Armour, Orc Bow, Sword . Warband . . Moria Goblin Warrior: Armour, Orc bow, Sword, 12x Warrior Moria Goblin Captain [12 Warriors, 164 Points, 9 Bow] . Moria Goblin Captain: Armour, Orc Bow, Sword . Warband . . Moria Blackshield Drummers: Moria Blackshield Drum . . . Moria Blackshield Drummer: Club, Heavy Armour . . . Moria Blackshield Drummer: Club, Heavy Armour . . Moria Goblin Warrior: Armour, Orc bow, Sword, 9x Warrior . . Moria Goblin Warrior: Armour, Sword, Warrior + Minor Hero + Moria Blackshield Shaman [6 Warriors, 84 Points] . Moria Blackshield Shaman: Armour, Staff . Warband . . Moria Goblin Prowler: Armour, 2x Prowler, Throwing Daggers, Two-Handed Axe . . Moria Goblin Warrior: Armour, Spear, Sword, 4x Warrior Moria Blackshield Shaman [5 Warriors, 79 Points] . Moria Blackshield Shaman: Armour, Staff . Warband . . Moria Goblin Prowler: Armour, 2x Prowler, Throwing Daggers, Two-Handed Axe . . Moria Goblin Warrior: Armour, Shield, Sword, 3x Warrior + Misc + Determine Alliance Level: Historical Allies Determine Breakpoint & 25% We cannot get out, they are coming ++ Total: [62 Warriors, 700 Points, 21 Bow] ++ Created with BattleScribe (battlescribe.net) 23 archers, 2 shamans, 62 warriors, 6 heroes, 13 prowlers, 12 might, nasty parte, tomorrow ill play this beauty here in Colombia, ill tell you the appreciations after the tournament.

[@NoobsandMen]

@@estebanlopezperdomo6705 Amazing list! Love the prowlers and the black shield shamans! this list should do really well! -Liam

[@estebanlopezperdomo6705]

@@NoobsandMen I WOOOOON!!!!! the horde works, and is so amazing when a lilcrap gopblin kills heartguards or high elves with S2 bows, well in the combat s was so brutal so many dices, In the last match the shamans was so vital with tremor and shatter weapons like axe of durin or Anduril xD or legolas bow. lOooool.

[@NoobsandMen]

@@estebanlopezperdomo6705 nice work!! congrats dude! -Liam

[@prestonrutherford4926]

Everyone seen the news about Moria models coming back to the store in May. It’s got me excited.

[@NoobsandMen]

Man we are buzzing at all the releases. -sean

[@hunsler1006]

As someone who loves scanrio play and on the rare occasions I play competitive my lists are always theme-y It's actually really interesting seeing these lists and how "useful" some of these warriors and hero's are coming from a different perspective

[@NoobsandMen]

I wanna love Scenario play but if I have time to play a scenario I have time to play a more competitive game and I find those a little more fun personally. I do LOVE themey lists though! -Liam

[@pufferfancyfish]

working on a 1000 point moria list now so this was a big help now I am just trying to figure out what to spend my list 150 points on either the dweller in the dark a moria goblin captian and 10 moria goblins or the blessed cave drake

[@NoobsandMen]

The blessed boy will always serve you well -Liam

[@simwify]

Quality work guys

[@pWndConan]

Love it! keep it up :D

[@NoobsandMen]

Thanks mate! We will!

[@monkeyfoo999]

What is venom back and were does 1 find it?

[@NoobsandMen]

If a spider has venom they get to reroll failed wounds. I think you'll find them under ashraks rule in the moria army section of the army book -Sean

[@tabletopramblings5896]

Well done on scoring Pringles as a sponsor ;)

[@NoobsandMen]

Took a while lot of backroom talks but we finally go there

[@grimgrauman7650]

Ashraks paralyse special Ruel is acctuly realy great as when he has no will left he is useless as only spiders profit from hus stand fast etc..So you take him and charge the big enemy Hero, the enemy will think cool i kill him and then you can roll 2× 4+ to paralyse him which can not be resisted.

[@NoobsandMen]

Fair point mate, didn't really think of the grenade method! -Liam

[@midnightdefender7611]

Hey, great video! I was wondering if you could give me some input on a Moria list I have been brewing. I haven't had the chance to play it yet. I have considered a list where the Dweller or the troll or both are taken out in order for a higher model count, something like a Goblin Captain (35) + a drum (75) + a few prowlers [especially after watching the video] or warriors. But yeah, if you get the chance just let me know. Thanks for the time and the insight on Moria. ++ Moria [50 Warriors, 750 Points, 16 Bow] ++ + Hero of Valour [15 Warriors, 215 Points, 11 Bow] + Durbûrz, The Goblin King of Moria [15 Warriors, 215 Points, 11 Bow] . Durbûrz, The Goblin King of Moria [70 Points]: Heavy Armour, Leader (Valour), Sword . Warband [15 Warriors, 145 Points, 11 Bow] . . Dweller in the Dark [1 Warriors, 75 Points]: Claws and Teeth, Dweller [1 Warriors, 75 Points] . . Moria Goblin Warrior [11 Warriors, 55 Points, 11 Bow]: Armour, Orc bow [11 Points, 11 Bow], Sword, 11x Warrior [11 Warriors, 44 Points] . . Moria Goblin Warrior [3 Warriors, 15 Points]: Armour, Shield [3 Points], Sword, 3x Warrior [3 Warriors, 12 Points] + Hero of Fortitude [24 Warriors, 210 Points, 5 Bow] + Grôblog [12 Warriors, 110 Points] . Grôblog [50 Points]: Armour, Mithril Crown, Sword . Warband [12 Warriors, 60 Points] . . Moria Goblin Warrior [6 Warriors, 30 Points]: Armour, Shield [6 Points], Sword, 6x Warrior [6 Warriors, 24 Points] . . Moria Goblin Warrior [6 Warriors, 30 Points]: Armour, Spear [6 Points], Sword, 6x Warrior [6 Warriors, 24 Points] Moria Goblin Captain [12 Warriors, 100 Points, 5 Bow] . Moria Goblin Captain [40 Points]: Armour, Shield [5 Points], Sword . Warband [12 Warriors, 60 Points, 5 Bow] . . Moria Goblin Warrior [5 Warriors, 25 Points, 5 Bow]: Armour, Orc bow [5 Points, 5 Bow], Sword, 5x Warrior [5 Warriors, 20 Points] . . Moria Goblin Warrior [4 Warriors, 20 Points]: Armour, Shield [4 Points], Sword, 4x Warrior [4 Warriors, 16 Points] . . Moria Goblin Warrior [3 Warriors, 15 Points]: Armour, Spear [3 Points], Sword, 3x Warrior [3 Warriors, 12 Points] + Minor Hero [11 Warriors, 325 Points] + Cave Drake [5 Warriors, 245 Points] . Cave Drake [150 Points]: Claws and Teeth . Warband [5 Warriors, 95 Points] . . Cave Troll [1 Warriors, 75 Points]: Spear, Troll [1 Warriors, 75 Points] . . Moria Goblin Warrior [4 Warriors, 20 Points]: Armour, Shield [4 Points], Sword, 4x Warrior [4 Warriors, 16 Points] Moria Blackshield Shaman [6 Warriors, 80 Points] . Moria Blackshield Shaman [50 Points]: Armour, Staff . Warband [6 Warriors, 30 Points] . . Moria Goblin Warrior [3 Warriors, 15 Points]: Armour, Shield [3 Points], Sword, 3x Warrior [3 Warriors, 12 Points] . . Moria Goblin Warrior [3 Warriors, 15 Points]: Armour, Spear [3 Points], Sword, 3x Warrior [3 Warriors, 12 Points]

[@NoobsandMen]

Yeah man always take prowlers, a moria list should never not have any prowlers. I always find the dwellers base size and D5 just don't cut it for me the F7 is great but boy do they die quick. One troll or even two trolls are never a bad shout tho fitting in one troll, a drum and Prowlers should be your goal. Hope this helps -Sean

[@midnightdefender7611]

​@@NoobsandMen Awesome, thank you so much for your input. I made a few changes. Essentially took out the dweller, some standard goblin warriors and added a drum (standard) alongside 7 prowlers. Put the drum with the drake so that the drake can nest near the drums and be a pretty big disincentive to attack the drum. Put the prowlers with Groblog and moved the cave troll to be with the standard captain. Again, thanks for your advice and input!

[@muesliman100]

Dragged to the depths only works while in a water feature though, so it is not that common that you would be able to come from the deep multiple times per game.

[@NoobsandMen]

Yep! Situational but still very good!

[@ryangale3757]

Having gotten a fair amount of experience running Moria lately, one thing I can absolutely say is that, in my experience, Cave Trolls are absolutely S tier must-haves for any Moria list I run. Sure, you can get a Captain with shield and another 7 Goblins for the same base price, but that strength 6 kills most anything it comes across with 3s or 4s whereas all those S3 warriors will probably need 5s or 6s, which is no guarantee. The trick is you never send your Cave Troll in alone, always bring some Goblins with it to give it those extra 3-4 dice and get them the banner reroll, because with most fights, a single 6 on 5-6 dice is usually all you need with F6. Pairing a Cave Troll with Durburz can be an absolute murder machine - at least 5 dice without any Goblin Warriors supporting as well, Might to get you the 6 that you need if necessary, or if you're feeling ballsy, spend the might for a heroic combat and get the troll 2 combats in 1 turn. Unless you're going up against top-tier heroes, you're probably gonna kill whatever you're up against pretty easily in the fight with just the troll. Even the troll chain can be super handy; it is 5 points, but that strength 5 can kill off mounts like nobody's business - killed Bolg in part by chainwhipping him off his warg on the charge in the first of 2 rounds of combat needed to take him out. The name of the game with Moria is 'Support' - you have to concentrate your dice into as few fights as possible to maximize those high rolls - and this is especially true with Cave Trolls and Prowlers.

[@NoobsandMen]

See I love Cave Trolls, but can't agree with S tier, you've got some good point there for sure but Moria also loves sheer weight of dice. Like you said for a troll you can grab a captain and 7 gobs, or even 10 prowlers or 15 goblins, if you have the warband space. That's at least 6 more dice than a troll gives you, and at least 8 more models to use in flanks or break throughs to secure traps and get the fight buff or the +1 to wound in a prowlers case. That's going to do much more work on the board than one troll ever will 9 times out of 10 -Liam

[@ryangale3757]

@@NoobsandMen See, you make some great points there, but in my experience at least, I haven't been able to get as many traps with my Goblins as much as I'd like, in large part due to the mobility limitations Goblins have - they're outrun by most other armies with 5' movement, and for some inane reason they get no rough terrain negation (even though Dwarves do with Mountain Dweller, absolute BS Goblins don't get that as well when we see them climbing on walls and stuff with ease). As such, when you're like me and you play on a lot of boards with a decent amount of buildings/rough terrain/etc., whelp, good luck getting around the enemy's flanks in less than 3-4 turns unless your opponent doesn't position well. In such an instance, having the troll there to just smash right through the middle, open up a gap, and then let your Goblins through to start getting those traps is an absolute godsend, and even without that, since unless you're bringing lots and lots of prowlers (a valid strategy of course), you're probably not getting wounds on anything but 5-6s even with a whole bunch of dice, sometimes it's just nice to have the troll there killing a few models a turn on 3s or 4s (or flash killing a hero) when you can't roll a 6 to save your life (as is often the case for me). Either way, will definitely say that warband size limits is the biggest limiting factor that Moria has - rather frustrating having so much spammy cheap infantry when you have to spend half your points on captains and such to be able to bring them (even if the captains are generally pretty solid). Also, yeah, prowlers are definitely S-tier for me as well, absolute killers when you get to use them to their fullest.

[@HTBello]

Guys, i would like to know your thoughts on this list. I'm madding trying to use dragon of moria in a No-moria list. Warband 1) Dragon of moria 350 pt WB 2) the mouth of Sauron +horse 85 7 black numenoreans 63 1 black numenorean war horn 39 7 morannon orcs spear&shield 63 250 pt WB 3) Gorbag shield 60 2 orc + warg + throwing spear and bow 26 2 orc tracker 10 3 black numenoreans 27 3 morannon orc spear&shield 27 150pt Tot: 750 pt, 28 models, 8 M The mouth of sauron just because beeing a hero of valor for few points, give me more troops. What do you think? Thank you

[@HTBello]

Dragon with tough hide and fly

[@NoobsandMen]

Its not a bad list at all. But I really can't help but look at the dragon and think there's 350 points that could run from one lucky shot. Tough hide is the way to take them for sure, but all of takes is one snake eyes, or two bad courage checks or a wraith sap will and black dart etc. and there's 350 points, almost half your army, running off the board. There's so many ways survival instinct can go horribly wrong that I can rarely ever justify taking a Dragon. -Liam

[@HTBello]

@@NoobsandMen my head says no. My hearth says play it!! 😂 I'll take the risk. Thx for the answer 😁

[@NoobsandMen]

A Braver person than me mate! Best of luck, let us know how it turns out! -Liam

[@ThatNathan]

I’m less emotionally invested in Moria than I was on Gondor. Still ready to angrily refute your decisions

[@NoobsandMen]

Please do! Hahaha

[@ryanthejackalkuhn7]

The drums are absolute D tier. They only affect goblins, of which you are going to have 15 warriors less. 15 guys with 15 attacks, with the possibility to block enemies and swarm. The drum reduces your numbers so much that it sabotages the ability to swarm and use your army bonus as well as backstabbers. Also the lower your own fight value is, the less valuable a banner effect gets, so with goblins it really isn't that useful. Therefore you should only ever include it at very high points where you already have more goblins than you can get into the fights.

[@NoobsandMen]

I'd have to disagree mate, the lower your fight the more effective. If your F5 opponent only rolls a 5 and you come in with a banner reroll of a 6 well it's basically paid for itself. Sure if your opponent rolls 6s it's not effective but that's the same as not having one, now you have the chance. And backstabbers ain't gonna do shit if you can't win the fight in the 1st place. Yes the drum drops you around 15 goblins but in most cases you already have a mass number unless you're taking the balrog but then you're playing a completely different play style. Also don't underestimate the power of a D5 goblin shielding with a banner effect, those little shit can hold up the best of troops. -Sean.

[@ryanthejackalkuhn7]

@@NoobsandMen Well, even though I rate some of the models very differently, I enjoy listening to your videos a lot while painting. Good stuff. :)

[@NoobsandMen]

That's what this is all about mate. Everyone is allowed to have their own opinions. We are expressing our opinions and if ppl disagree we love to talk about it share our thoughts and listen to other people's thoughts. There are so many variables in this game. Glad you're enjoying the videos mate. -Sean

[@ralexy999]

I found you a little harsh on the blackshield drum just because you have to take black shield warriors as remplacement for the slained drummers Blackshield are not shit, they are just really overpriced, but if you just add 2 blackshield to support the drum, that's the same cost as 3 regular goblins And with Defense 6 and the fact that the drum can move with the rest your line, just 2 remplacements for the drummers is plenty enough

[@NoobsandMen]

A fair enough point for sure, but I just really dislike the black shield warriors that much 😂 plus moving the drum like that only really helps certain moria armies, for the most part you can get away with the regular drum and it's increased range. Plus Balck shields are too expensive money wise as well 😅 -Liam

[@ralexy999]

@@NoobsandMen Ran a Moria Battle company so I didn't have much of a choice but to convert some (used the goblin town mercenaries) just before they came back into the range of course XD But yeah, in the Balrog legendary legion, I only run the blackshield drum now. The normal drum is really a bother to protect in this legion where you have no very mobile units and the ennemy just send fast unit after your lonely drum in the backline.

[@NoobsandMen]

I never had anyone try and take out the drum 😂 I've also just never had the models so never bothered with it but I totally agree it can be handy to move and still drum, just makes it much less survivable when it can only pass to blackshields

[@ralexy999]

@@NoobsandMen Seriously ? In my case, almost every game with the LL (or even regular Moria), my ennemy is sending something after it (even when I put it high on some terrain in the deployement), be it 1-2 riders, 2-3 archers, a flying units like bats or crows, deepstriking goblintown, etc ... there were almost always someone after my drum and I always have to dedicate a few goblins to babysit it XD

[@joshparrish5895]

I think balrog needs more love, just sayin

[@NoobsandMen]

BALROG need to learn to roll better then a 4 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Nah he just way to easy to counter, half the time its a 350pt model just stuck killing one or 2 models a turn. If he get on a rare roll, he is unstoppable. -Sean

[@joshparrish5895]

@@NoobsandMen I don't disagree just think he still has more to offer to get him atleast A tier lol makes goblins fearless to get more goblins and dice in a fight, that fiery lash is nasty to pull out heroes like the watcher does pull them into a trap and then get the free heroic combat off to get extra move. Just saying A tier atleast lol