Bioshock 2 Critique | After the Kool-Aid

[@MontyZander]

Bioshock 1 and 2 have money off at www.bestgameprice.net - but there's an absolute STEAL with Bioshock Infinite right now according to their site. They also have an Android App and Discord App so you can add them to your discord servers and find deals with just a couple of clicks. HEY also in regards to The Selfish Gene - here's a statement: twitter.com/MontyZander/status/1590785075011981312

[@MontyZander]

Also can’t believe I messed up and said Bioshock 2 was an Irrational Games title when it was really made by Naughty Dog.

[@drakenfist]

@@MontyZander That's a joke right?. Nate Wells did join Naughty Dog but after making Bioshock 2. That's true that it wasn't made by irational, but a branch of 2k games. A now defunct studio called "2K Marin".

[@MontyZander]

@@drakenfist yes it was a joke.

[@michaelredwood6133]

Idk i can't really get behind this review man, a lot of critiques you have can be attributed to the fact it was a small development team just like the first bioshock. They even talk about how they wanted to implement Houdini teleportation, but didn't have time, so they put in the easter egg instead. Don't make it sound like an intentional jab at the player. I enjoyed a lot that you talked about tho, like "hack success" could be shown in the right hand corner passively maybe.

[@ancapcitizen8266]

Not only were you wrong when criticizing Jordan Peterson, you also lied when claiming that this scene of him crying was from when he criticized Sports Illustrated putting an overweight person on it´s cover. That clip is several years old and him criticizing Sports Illustrated happened a few months ago. Lie failed. Yes, Collectivism is always socialist, it cannot be Capitalism by definition. Capitalism is the private control of the means of production by an individual or a small family-like group. Capitalism is anti-collectivist and anti-state. Fun fact: The word "Corporation" was invented by Fascists in Italy to mean "state-controlled institution", and since we all know that Fascism stems from Marxism, we can confidently claim that the word "corporation" is used today in a completely wrong context. Marxism is always Socialism but Socialism isn´t always Marxism. Fascism was literally invented by a Marxist, his name was Benito Mussolini and he was part of the internationalsocialist party of Italy before he was kicked out due to wanting Italy to join WW1. He then partnered up with several Syndicalist organizations in Italy to invent his own form of "National-Syndicalism" aka Fascism. None of the examples you gave are collectivist. In Capitalism, you always have the possibility to leave your workplace and go find a better one and your employer can always fire you if you refuse to do your job but you were right about on thing: Many businesses today fire employees because of how they think. If you don´t conform with the mainstream woke mindset, the likeliness of you getting fired increases depending on the size of the business you´re working for. You brought up Netflix apparently firing a transsexual employee for criticizing Dave Chappelle´s "shitty" (making in quite obvious that you´re triggered) standup-show however you completely ignore the extreme backlash Dave Chappelle received because he dared to mention the extreme toxicity within the trans-community that drove one of his transsexual friends into suicide. If you don´t like working for Amazon, LEAVE. Aside from that, Jeff Bezos has in the past advocated for higher minimum-wages specifically because he knew that this would drive a large part of his competition out of business. Jeff Bezos is indeed a pretty shitty dude however, we cannot ignore that he has advocated for socialist policies in order to hurt his competition which shines a light on the truth of Socialism. 1:26:55 "You can´t get more Capitalist or Collectivist than american news-conglomerates.", laughable. You´re completely ignoring that 90% of those big news-conglomerates have a left-leaning/socialist bias and are working with the state. CNN, NBC, MSNBC, ABC etc. are constantly putting out blatand lies in favor of left-wing/socialist organizations like Black Lives Matter, playing down the damages and violence caused by them. Gilbert Alexander is literally the victim of the socialist-collectivist idea, his individuality destroyed in hopes of creating the flawless, selfless being that doesn´t exist in reality and that would be necessary for a socialist society to even have a chance at functioning. Andrew Ryan manipulating the people of Rapture into letting him think for them, is about as Capitalist as the Sowjet-Union was. Giving up your individuality and freedom for a stronger, more influential party to protect you, is pretty much the definition of a nanny-state. Andrew Ryan is the embodiment of a socialist utopian politician who promises his subjects freedom and prosperity in exchange for letting him be the leader of everything. Sure, you´re free, at least until you do something that Andrew Ryan doesn´t agree with. Ryan is also free to abuse his subjects in pretty much any way he wants. Sofia Lamb´s idea of a perfect human being failed because it was built on the idea that the perfect, selfless human being can exist. Rapture didn´t fail because it was capitalist, it failed because it was filled with egocentric psychopaths and murderers. Small detail, I know. You claimed that Jim Jones manipulated his subjects into only working to benefit him instead of benefiting the collective but then you claimed that that was not what Socialism is about. That is EXACTLY what Socialism is about and what it was always about. Socialism is a group of people who hold all the cards manipulating their subjects into working towards the "communist utopia" when in reality, they are only working to benefit the few at the top. That is Socialism and that is Marxism. All that you´re confirming in this section of the video is that Andrew Ryan did what every nation on earth is doing right now. Attempting to create a socialist authoritarian state while keeping it hidden by claiming that "everything is capitalist". In the end, Rapture is kind of similar to western society today: We are living on the tombstone of Socialism however, some people continute to write the word "Capitalism" on it.

[@mohamednail1707]

My favourite custody battle simulator.

[@ryszakowy]

divorce simulator

[@thekaiser3815]

I'm on the fathers side 🤣

[@Bella_The_Chef]

Worlds most violent divorce proceedings

[@greenaum]

When a man loves his giant city-computer, he'll do anything to keep her.

[@RandomPerson-tz7wk]

@@greenaum More like gaint computer learn to love her creator to the point of becoming him

[@theundeadgamer4714]

Side note from someone who loves this game too much. You don’t need to harvest little sisters to deal with them instantly. The vents are always active the moment you pick one up so if you want to rush you can adopt one and head to a vent to rescue them instantly. Of course you’d be getting hit with a giant drop in Adam quantity but nobody ever mentions this bit and I figured I’d talk about it.

[@famguy2101]

I thought I remember that being a thing so thank you for confirming lol

[@angeldark404]

I discovered this by accident today

[@jazmindodds]

Once I did the two bodies on the first level, and used up all of my ammo, I just decided to fuck it and rescue them immediately lol

[@mymyhi9921]

I love this game too

[@koca6685]

I was just about to comment the same thing LULE

[@anatomy_antonym]

I personally think that Delta was selfless AND amoral when he was just another Big Daddy, but as it’s said by Tenenbaum, he was “awakened” and now possesses free will, essentially giving him a “self”. That’s what Sofia refers to when she says “who would be so cruel as to hold a mirror to a man with no face?” She’s referencing this sort-of-forced sentience that Eleanor has re-given him, which was taken when he was made into a Big Daddy. By both selfless and amoral, I mean that yes, he acted completely in the service of Eleanor’s safety, but out of compulsion and not of his own accord; sacrifice without choice is just an execution. The game makes a distinction between these two versions of Delta, I believe, by having Eleanor comment on her not knowing if Delta ever wanted a daughter, and that “love is just a chemical, but we give it meaning by choice.” Delta didn’t choose to love Eleanor or sacrifice himself every day for her safety, but he did choose during the events of Bioshock 2 to do just that.

[@LifeontheBellCurve]

I would say, at least from a male perspective, that slipping into the perspective of delta scratches on something deep and primal. In most functioning males, there should be something hard wired in protect children at all costs. I as a 6'3", 250lbs male, when I have a little one with me, I am in body guard mode. My child is on my shoulders when we are in a crowd and shes never out of reach when she's on the ground. It's something visceral and natural. That is why I would say that seeing through Delta's eyes feels better and almost natural. Acting the part of the Big Daddy is a deep power fantasy in more ways than one.

[@tnecniw]

@@LifeontheBellCurve Yep. I would personally argue that it actually makes harvesting the little sisters SO much more difficult in Bioshock 2. Because, they aren't just a choice after a fight. You protect them, you are their daddy... To harvest them in 1 is one thing... to do it in bioshock 2 is a completely different best.

[@GDKF0238]

@BurnItInHolyFire what does your stature have to do with it? Feels like you want a pat on the back for that useless bit of info lmao

[@kingofstrangeness7014]

​@@GDKF0238big boy

[@kyndramb7050]

​@@GDKF0238He's also a Big Daddy?

[@deputy_of_comments]

I see delta as as the opposite of jack, jack was a what Sophia lamb wanted in a person pure obedience and selflessness, but delta is what Ryan thought a person should be, that is the ultimate individual, one who gets what they want by choice and will, preserving themselves and there interests no matter the cost of any one else.

[@ryszakowy]

of course a communist would want someone who can't think for themselves and ryan forgot to establish proper laws to avoid communists coming to his city and demanding a piece of pie for doing nothing

[@thekaiser3815]

I would argue a healthy and well ajusted human being needs both. To know his actions will affect others and make decisions with that in mind, and to have a healthy self interest.

[@deputy_of_comments]

@@thekaiser3815 never said that even Ryan's idea of a person was healthy

[@thekaiser3815]

@@deputy_of_comments true, nor did I say same of him.

[@HiiroShinigami]

It is true that Delta is forced to save Eleanor because of his mental conditioning and their bond, but i think the path he(you the player) chooses to walk to get to that point is what shows he is not amoral. You have choice on how to get there. You are free to wreak havoc, kill everyone, harvest the little sisters. In his case the journey is the choice, not the destination. To me, also it makes sense that saving the little sisters is harder than harvesting them, because being evil/selfish is easy, and being good is hard work. I still save them every single time, because it matters, at least to me and my version of Delta. While burdened with mounstrous purpose we chose to be good. I also personally think that Sofia Lamb killing Eleanor makes sense, ESPECIALLY when you've been good. She tries and tries again to paint you as a monster, either mindless or selfish. But good Delta is the true Utopian, he is the very thing she was trying to create, and she refuses to see it in her bloated sense of superiority. The true faceless monster that the game thrusts a mirror upon, is actually Sofia's pride, and tyricannical attitude. Sofia's sins and her ruthlessness. It feels so fitting that she kills Eleanor (just for a second) to kill you, because , essentally you've been doing everything she was failing to, and you are a walking testament of her sins and mistakes she's trying to bury. She would kill Eleanor if she can't have her/control her as her sacrificial lamb for her cult, just like she floods Rapture when she knows she has no chance here anymore. She would rather destroy things (and people) than share them, like a selfish child. Sofia Lamb was always the monster.

[@XenoJehuty84]

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[@starchilde8698]

Beautifully said.

[@hollowman9410]

I played All of the Bioshock games and personally I think Bioshock 2 is the best one (in my opinion it did the best job at balancing the physiological, emotional, moral and personal aspects that make bioshock good, without lacking too much in any of the categories). It is the most "balanced". Infinite tried so hard to go beyond what the first two games did that it lost sight of what made the franchise good and unique in the first place, while the first game lacked at making the moral choices really deep. When I first started two, I thought to myself "great, I am playing as a Big Daddy now, as if the protagonist of the first game wasn't a "slave" enough". But I was wrong, Two succeeded in both telling a personal history while giving further world building to the great city of the first game. It really taught me that you don't need to give your character a voice to give him a personality.

[@jamesfirecat6652]

@@hollowman9410Not only that but 2 has the best combat. Being able to use plasmids and guns at the same time instantly makes it better than 1, and the weapon damage to enemy health is scaled so much better than in Infinite. Upgrade the rivet gun and one head shot will kill a lead head splicer on hard difficulty. Upgrade the carbine in Infinite and you need 2 headshots to kill a standard enemy on hard. Needing two headshots per enemy makes the fights drag and makes the fact that you can only hold two weapons at the same time in infinite that much more bothersome…

[@octaviantiolan5410]

I like the idea of Delta being the end-point of what Lamb is trying to achieve because, in a way, it's her own philosophy standing in opposition of her. It's like how superman and captain america can be seen as a subversion of "uberminch" concept that Hitler was trying to achieve; that very ideal, should it ever come to be, would fight to stop them.

[@MontyZander]

Aw damn I love that

[@ruffethereal1904]

I hadn't seen that specific parallel and scathing critique. I only understood it in Wolfenstein but yes, why would these perfect super beings WANT to work for someone so paranoid, hostile, and teetering on such a precarious foundation of power?

[@liliththesolarexalted2206]

I absolutely adore your interpretation. There is something so fascinating about a villainous person's philosophy ending up with creating a paragon of a person who dismantles the villain/their regime. Or a noble and heroic person being the sterling example of an ideal and by their very nature standing in opposition to something evil that would otherwise deify them. I wish there was a name for this concept, because it is something that should really be played around with more in fiction.

[@ryszakowy]

red son superman was a menace to humanity superior man died what's your point if germans could produce ubermensch they would be as indoctrinated as waffen SS it's not about serum it's about what molds the super soldiers

[@starchilde8698]

@@liliththesolarexalted2206 We could name the concept after Delta, if it isn't already labeled.

[@creepykels]

I completely disagree with the "the harvest choice should come with more negatives". I feel like this is one of the only games where they actually make the "evil" choices make the game easier and less challenging and the "good" choices make the game much more harder, more inconvenient. You're moral choices directly effect not only the story outcome, but the gameplay as well unlike many other games which attempt to utilize morality choices. It's not always easy to "do the right thing" and this choice should you do so highlights that it might be hard and not pay off instantly, but can lead to much more riches in the long term that the easier "bad" choice. It also, to your point, makes the twist more meaningful: if you go down the "evil" road you now realize you've made a total monster and there's no going back. If you go the harder, "good" route all that hard work pays off because your good deeds have meaning, bettering the lives of both the Little Sisters and Elenor. I also don't mind the Little Sitter protect battles when you choose the "good" route, and I'm surprised you hate them so much seeing as how you value setting up traps and planning for a battle ahead, that's why I love them so much! Also, I feel like Elenor walked so Elizabeth in Infinite could run; would they have gone with that type of storytelling with Elizabeth if they hadn't experimented with the concept in Bioshock 2? I don't know, but Elenor made this game for me. I genuinely wanted to help her and the paternal Big Daddy "daddy" complex was one I was willing to dive into because he was a compelling character to me. I have only ever chosen the "good" path and I don't think I would like this game if I went down the "bad" one, though now that I know she can become so unhinged I am tempted to play back and witness her insane madness for myself. Another great critique/essay, I'm very much excited to see you do more and which games you choose to review in future! While I don't agree with your views on this personally, I appreciate seeing different perspectives and reviewing options that challenge my own. Great work Monty! You made my Friday binge watching really enriched, engaging, and educational!

[@constantanxietyattacks6878]

I'm actually a little disappointed you didn't mention the third ending, which I think is actually the most poignant of them all, where you were mostly selfish but still showed mercy, and so when Eleanor moves to take your ADAM, instead Subject Delta stops her, and makes her let him die, rather than encourage the direction she's headed down, leaving her to consider on her own how to continue without her father.

[@TiredTransbian]

I love that ending, but I never get it, because I can't bring myself to harvest even one little sister.

[@constantanxietyattacks6878]

@@TiredTransbian same honestly. Plus, as much as I talk about how meaningful it is, it's way too sad for me to actually wanna get it when I go back and play, cause I'd feel bad lmao

[@Ronam0451]

There's 6 endings

[@hollowman9410]

@@Ronam0451 3 endings, plus a small variacion where Lamb either dies or lives.

[@tiagonascimento4386]

​@@hollowman9410 bro are you serious if she dies or not it's a total different ending!! Not just a little variation!!

[@eddiekrustysock4395]

Subject Delta chooses to be a father which is what he was programmed to be. It's honestly beautiful.

[@chriswhitmore3835]

I'd disagree on the bit about disincentivizing harvesting. As an 'evil' choice, it should be easy. Evil almost always is easier and more immediately rewarding than good. That's why people do evil things. Too many games have 'moral choice' systems where being evil doesn't actually make your life easier. That means the only reason to take them is if you are playing a psychopath or you're just trying to see all the content.

[@xBINARYGODx]

that is because the state of things now is in reaction to the past, where being bad was always the easy way out. Problem is (with both setups) is that evil is NOT actually easy - whether or not it is depends on the setup or scenario. Letting innocent people die is not evil per say - but it IS easier than save them. However, being the architect of their demise is not necessarily simple or easy. it would be much more correct to say that a middle of road or neutral handling of a situation is easy - at least if we keeps things simple enough and short term enough.

[@JimJamTheAdmin]

@@xBINARYGODx letting innocent people die is evil. You'd need specific circumstances like some asinine trolly problem to get to the conclusion that it is morally grey to stand by and let people die when you could save them.

[@my9thaccount140]

@@JimJamTheAdmin What if you could save them, but by doing so you’d die in the process? I wouldn’t consider somebody who chose not to save the people as evil. It takes a particular kind of person to willingly die for somebody they don’t know and most people have families of their own who need them. Speaking of families would letting innocent people die to save your family be considered evil? I wouldn’t consider it so, but I know others would disagree. What makes me or them correct? Once you think about morality you realize that it’s mostly abstract and subjective. Outside of things like senseless murder of course. Even then one man’s senseless murder is another man’s sacrifice for the greater good. Who’s objectively right there? It’s all perspective frankly.

[@JimJamTheAdmin]

@@my9thaccount140 yeah, some asinine set-up like "but what if you had to die" is exactly my point. Nowhere did I say you're evil for not running into a burning buding on the slim margin that you could save someone, I used the word can. If you know you can save someone, who would die by your inaction, that's evil. If you know there is a sheer cliff ahead and don't tell someone running at it about the cliff, you're evil.

[@LostShipMate]

The first Bioshock game is a perfect example of Evil choices being irrelevant. You get nearly as much Adam being good as you do with Evil choices.

[@funnseeker8494]

I always thought that when I played the good route, Sofia lamb was angry and out raged at me because it wasn't her ideals or values that were being placed inside her daughters mind, it was Delta's choices. MS.Lamb is also a lot like Ryan in having a deathly grip or control over her idealogy. She was enraged when the US government used her exact ideals to justify the dropping of the nukes on Japan. She'll always liked being in control, same as Ryan. This leads to a new problem with delta. While Eleanor doesn't listen to her mother's ideals, she gladly takes her "daddies" lesson. As a good player I saw him as warm , the exact opposite of lambs cold and constant State.

[@AtlasBloodfyre]

I always knew the kool-aid came from Jim Jones, but sometimes I'm astounded by how popular the phrase has become people don't know where it came from most of the time.

[@RealBradMiller]

But it was actually Flavor-Aid!

[@KevinJohnson-cv2no]

Would be more appropriately deemed "After the Revolution"

[@tastyradroach2821]

@@RealBradMiller My inner LPOTL fan was screaming that the entire time lmao

[@RealBradMiller]

@@tastyradroach2821 Then who was phone?!?!

[@GrungeHead47]

This is the second KZbin video I've seen where they didn't know where it came from in the past few weeks. I believe the other video was GameTheory of all people. I thought that guy knew everything. There's actually a few cults that either attempted or actually succeeded in mass suicide by drinking kool-aid laced with poison. I think they actually went crazy and dolled out the big bucks for actual Kool-aid none of that generic Taste-aid shit. I think it mixes better and goes down smoother.

[@Sidorio]

It's worth noting that 2K Marin developed Bioshock 2. They were a company created specifically by Bioshock publisher 2K Games specifically to port Bioshock to PlayStation 3 and to develop Bioshock 2. This was because of disputes between Ken Levine and 2K Games about the direction the next Bioshock game should take. Just figured it was worth mentioning given Monty keeps referring to Irrational Games as the developer of Bioshock 2. Members of Irrational Games were involved in the formation of 2K Marin, but that's where the association ends.

[@theundeadgamer4714]

As for the Sophia shouldn’t be mad if you create a pacifist Eleanor, I feel you’re missing the sort of point of her rage. She’s been tainted, even if that taint is generosity and love it came from the unwashed mass known as Delta. A man who was NOT the one who shared her vision. It’s her “selfish gene” once again getting in her way. She HATES what you’ve done no matter what wholly because you did it. Not her. Not her followers. But some giant tin man who couldn’t even fathom her dreams in her eyes.

[@tnecniw]

Because Sophia is a giant moronic hypocrite.

[@Respect2theFallen]

Lol that sounds like a great username generous taint

[@aussiekola2370]

Sofia lamb simply wanted to be the creator of the perfect utopian and was pissed off that Delta tainted would would be the perfect Utopian in HER image.

[@thelegendofner0]

True

[@Anto-xh5vn]

Yeah no Sophia is mad because you're ruining HER vision of utopia You're the one is missing a very big point

[@Cure_Hana]

36:58 I remember watching a documentary about the few Jonestown detractors who actually managed to escape right before the massacre, including Thom Bogue (the man in the clip). One of his accounts that hit me the most was when he described how he and a friend were caught trying to flee one night. As punishment, Jim decided to apply psychological torture to the boys by having the other members surround them, screaming at and heckling them until they repented. At the front of it all was Thom’s own mother, who said he deserved to die for betraying the village, and that she’d kill him herself if Jim ordered her to. 😔

[@turtleanton6539]

Ouch that harsh

[@MzLuluZombi]

I think with Subject Delta, he represents what Sofia ultimately seems to despise; free will. Free will interferes with her idea of Utopia being one of pure selflessness, and it's why she's so excited when learning about Jack and his "Would You Kindly" conditioning. He acted without thought, without will, which as pointed out Lamb would associate with the "gene" of selfishness. When Delta was just a Big Daddy, she might have had more respect for him (if he weren't also a symbol of Ryan's own power). But as Delta progresses through Rapture, he makes choices that a Big Daddy wouldn't make because he has what little humanity he could have given back to him; harvest or rescue, kill or show mercy to Sofia's governers, they're choices a Big Daddy can't make without free will. Grace even points this out if you spare her: "You had me under a gun... yet you just walk away? No monster alive turns the other cheek. No monster does that. A thinking man does that." For Sofia, free will is the enemy, because free will requires thinking of oneself. It's why she gets increasingly desperate the closer Delta gets to Eleanor and why she resorts to drastic measures when she learns the truth; she's losing her daughter to free will. From the start of the game Lamb's intentions are clear; "Her name is Eleanor and she is mine." She's possessive of a child she swore to raise as the First Utopian, making her a hypocrite to her own selfless philosophy. Regardless of the moral motivation, Delta makes his way to Eleanor and Eleanor helps him because it's what she wants. Eleanor being good or evil changes nothing for Lamb because she's acting out of free will, for herself and not for the collective. It's not until Eleanor actually breaks out and becomes directly involved in the fight to escape that Lamb is willing to blow everything and everyone to hell, because it's the final nail in the coffin for Lamb's idea of Utopia. Eleanor and Delta prove her wrong, that selfessness and selfishness are a choice, not something inherent.

[@xwing2417]

Grace is an excellent example.

[@xirabolt]

>the arenas are too clearly telegraphed Cut to Bioshock Infinite, where you round a corner and come across yet ANOTHER open area with a bunch of tears visible. Gee I wonder if there will be another battle in 20 seconds.

[@chrisme]

To me cults are the scariest social groups we humans are capable of making. The fear of me being trapped within one and losing my sense of self to its philosophy is scarier than any horror I can think of. Nice vid!

[@ericquiabazza2608]

ALL religions begin as cult. The only diference with one to the other is members and social aseptanse. So yea, you most likely has been indoctrinated into a "cult" since you where born and dont even realize it. A little history, cult is cognitively associated with satanism and paganism that perform blood rituals to entities. This is mostly proaganda difunded by christian and other churches to justify any punishment for disent and free thinking. Lets not forget the clusterfuck the salem trial where. Heck, if you check some christian media you would see mention that at the begining faremr sacrifice animals and set food ablaze as a tribute to god. And even today, as one drink "blood" and eat "Human flesh" during mass. What is really to fear are cults that exist mostly as scams to take your money, case in point, megachurches. If its the "suicidal pact" that scares you then you are fine, this are SUPER rare, as it implies followers die and the group may fisolve or just disapear. In the case expose here may sound like a massacre but there is a lot of context if you search about it: -Fear that US government may hunt you down, VERY REAL. This is 78' in THE MIDDLE OF CONDOR, US has like 10 countries under military regime arresting and killing ANY leftist, simpatizer and even their family. Also, in 69 FBI kill Hampton, a US citizen, in his own bed and the police cover it up. So, fear to be branded a RED IN 78 and have yourself and everyone you know kill and arrested is a plausible reality. About the suicidal pact part, there is very heavy conspiracies about it being a external poisoning of the water supply and later staged to be a suicidal cult. Which is posible, specially concidering US actions at the time and the amount of propaganda made to ridiculizise and shame anything the group stus for or was even part of. Heck, even to today shit is still being declacified From US covering assasination of its own citizen like the black phanter lider to 2013, where Obama send paper to Brazil of crimes during the 70'. Of special mention is a Brazilian protestor, who was declared missing and finally death in 2010, yet the paper expose the US knew the guy was death A MONTH, after it happen. And Brazilian afirm that this wasnt even a FRACTION of all the documentation US have of this era but chooses to keep hiden for self preserving reasons. Heck, MOST of death and K Kidnaping counts of the time are base in informs made for and from other goverments in the reason made to be send to the US as the mayority of documentation of this type was destroy shortly after being made. Like, counts in Argentina where tally by Chilean and Uruguayan, the ones of this countries by other, etc etc.

[@michaelwerkov3438]

And... how many people will say they are terrified of cults while being in one... or two even, is pretty common these days

[@White_Wrath]

Now imagine a life without that fear. I Sophia Lamb can help you shed the tyranny of the self so that you may give yourself to the family of rapture. The family awaits you and we will give all of our love so that you can feel that we are all one, regardless of our differences.

[@chrisme]

@@White_Wrath Go away! I don't wanna to hear about it. Sho, sho...

[@White_Wrath]

@@chrisme You sound afraid of love, love that the family can provide. Shed your shell and smile for the family can provide all you desire, all you have to do is destroy the tyranny of the self.

[@trial_with_an_error9687]

The reason the twist works both ways in my opinion is because YOU were the one who made Eleanor into the Lamb's utopian, not Lamb herself. You, the exact thing she believes she is in direct opposition to, not only embodied her ideals perfectly, you did what she could not, instilled those ideals onto someone younger. You are not the monster she painted you to be, and that destroys her inside, it forces her to confront the very ideal that she isnt a utopian as she seems to believe she is, and she cannot accept it. So she betrays her own morals, bows down to her own selfish nature and effectively throws a murderous tantrum, because if she cant have her own perfect ideal version of Eleanor, then no one can. She is exactly like Andrew Ryan, the only difference is that Ryan em raced his fall, Lamb refuses to even accept it as a fall.

[@JackOfGears]

The advertising campaign for this game "There is Something in the Sea" has stuck with me for, gosh, decades at this point. It was clever, and strange, and must have been an enormous amount of work. I really appreciated that they included the character from that in the real game, though I thought it was such a disappointment that we never got a DLC where you got to play as him.

[@PatchV25]

It was one of the first ARG campaigns that I ever paid any attention to, and it has certainly stuck with me the longest.

[@SageofStars]

I think it would have been a bit too downer to do it, given we know how their story ends, and it's not pleasant. Interestingly, according to one of the making ofs, the higher ups originally planned on NOT including any references to it in the game, figuring no one would pay attention, but then it got so much attention, they had to rush to include something in the game itself referencing it, which is why it feels a bit anti-climactic.

[@fluffywolfo3663]

God, that ARG campaign was so cool. To this day, I use it to explain ARGs to boomer-aged friends.

[@Greaseball01]

It was better than the actual game is what it was.

[@justmusiciaan]

I'm sorry but who is that "he" you're talking about?

[@omisan771]

I like how Bioshock 2 ditched the doll like character design for more realistic proportions. The little sisters change is more obvious, but humans also had weird proportions in the original Bioshock.

[@Concavenator128]

This is a very minor point (fantastic series of videos, BTW, thanks for making them) but the "selfish gene" thing at 11:18 is one that is often misunderstood. Dawkins' thesis is not that we have "a selfish gene" within ourselves -- rather that ALL genes, by their own nature as genes, are "selfish", in the sense that they can only benefit themselves, because they are non-sentient patterns of information, and natural selection rewards the ones that are better at copying themselves. Note that selfish genes do NOT necessarily make _organisms_ selfish -- in fact, the selfishness of genes is precisely what allows altruism to exist! Genes are shared between different individuals, so natural selection can reward a gene that benefits itself by leading the organism that contain it to help the organisms that contain its identical copies. Uhm, sorry for the huge tangent. Thanks for the videos!

[@tooki3698]

​@Monty Zander This comment should be pinned, because it's such an important and often misunderstood point. As soon as I heard you talk about it in the video, I immediately came to the comments hoping that it had been corrected.

[@dodgeworldl8470]

Personally I think the "Good" ending still hits the right notes. I see it a Lamb not being upset that her experiment failed, but she's more pissed at the fact Delta succeeded where she could not. Eleanor not only keeps her love for Delta, but selflessly saves the little sisters and her mother. Meanwhile Lamb spent not only her whole life, but spent Eleanor's life trying to program her to not love her mother or anyone. But to "love everyone". Then in comes Delta doing her life's whole work in only a day or so.

[@stalfithrildi5366]

Marx did say "religion is the opiate of the masses" but in an era where opiates were not seen in the same way as today. Within the same paragraph he describes religion as "the heart of a heartless world," which I believes adds balance to Big K's meaning; he was not condemning religion nor the religious, but saying it was how the majority of people sought relief from life under capitalism.

[@HonkeyKong54]

Dude's a hack

[@Mandalore_ultimate]

Communism is stupid

[@hexalby]

To expand, opiates were the rich people's drug of choice, so Marx meant to say that religion is what poor people could afford to ease the psychological burden of capitalism. He does not condemn spirituality or belief, he condemns religious organizations, seeing them as the elite subsuming the suffering of the lower classes into their world view. Organized religion is the act of taking control of the output of the spiritual needs of the populace away from the populace with the ultimate aim of keeping them subservient.

[@antediluvianatheist5262]

@@HonkeyKong54 we will take the name of Marx to the stars. Also Lenin, Stalin and Mao.

[@HonkeyKong54]

@@antediluvianatheist5262eat sht hippie

[@ninjabiscuit1095]

I always felt that the first 2 bioshock games were a critique of the inevitable failures of prospective utopian leaders. While both came from different philosophies, they both failed for similar reasons, which are the flaws in the human condition that can never be removed.

[@furtsmagee1513]

And yet half the comments (and parts of the video) defend utopian socialism and seems to define socialism as “when the government does things”. Very disappointing compared to the original video honestly.

[@emperorpalpatine6239]

@@furtsmagee1513Socialism is not a utopian ideology

[@InitialPC]

thats actually true, ken levine is a self proclaimed libertarian, and in his own words the first bioshock (he had nothing to do with 2) it wasnt meant to be a critique of libertarianism or objectivism, it was meant to be a critique of the idea of utopias

[@emperorpalpatine6239]

@@InitialPC Lmao, what? First and foremost, Ken Levine is an outspoken liberal. And second, he himself admitted that the game was intentionally made to be a critique of libertarian ideology and Objectivism. You Ayn Rand fanboys are truly detached from reality.

[@Yes_Fantasy_419]

100% Incorrect, Socialism is not utopianism but it is a far better system than Capitalism which in Bioshock 1, we saw how unfiltered capitalism destroyed Rapture and caused a Civil War@@furtsmagee1513

[@MonsterJuiced]

There's nothing wrong with angry dad simulators lmao I think they're an expression of the creators as devs get older and have their own children and are now telling stories that reflect their concerns albiet fantastical.

[@raresmacovei8382]

51:26 "Irrational has gone out of their way to etc". They didn't actually. Credit where credit is due: the game was made by 2K Marin (with some Arkhane developers). Ken Levine's Irrational Games had no input on Bioshock 2.

[@jdcoffeestreams4333]

My first two playthroughs I had no idea you could kill Grace. She was backing down and not being an obstacle to me. And since she didn't stand between me and my little sister, I didn't even try to swing at her.

[@mounderm160]

This is one of the best video that talks about Bioshock 2 and it made me more aware of some problems that one of my favorite game ever has but also made me love it more. Can't wait for the video about Infinite. Also when it comes to helping the sisters harvest Adam, you can simply choice not to do it and directly sending them to the vents. Gives you less Adam but saves you tume

[@Kelis98]

I don’t think it has problems, the levels are just as open and details and story great as well

[@iliemarino115]

Sinclair curing my daddy issues being a sort of a “dad” for delta, being honest and never giving up on us, i cried when i had to kill him, but at the end it was his own resolution with rapture, because a man can do evil but there will always be a consecuence at the end of his journey

[@ocfos88]

The good ending of this game still makes me weep to this day. One of the most memorable endings for a game that I've ever played.

[@ryanb5127]

26:00 I think there's a 4th option for what delta embodies. He is representative of the social nature of people. There can be a legitimate desire to help others that is not contradicted by the way he benefits from it. What he represents is a reject of absolutism. He's not all selfish or selfless. He's a synthesis of the two, he is nuance and balance embodied.

[@czarnoksiezhnik]

This game was my introduction to the series when I was a young teen. Naturally, without the context of the first game a lot of nuance was lost on me but I fell in love with the atmosphere anyway

[@grimwatcher]

One big correction about the Selfish Gene is that, no the book isn't about a selfish gene inside of us, rather it takes the point of view of evolution being gene-centric, that evolution is about the propagation of genes rather than individual organisms. As a consequence, the characteristics an organism will take will be to maximize the propagation of those genes which might explains why genetically related individuals (or family for the rest of the normies) cooperate and defend each other. "Selfish" in this case is used as a metaphor to illustrate the "behavior" of said genes since they'll always do what's in their best interest to ensure their propagation even if comes at the expense of other genes or even the whole individual organism. P.S.: I just found out your content, I'm loving your long form critiques, great job man.

[@Henners1991]

I think you're incorrect in saying you need to be disincentivised from harvesting little sisters; I agree with Yahtzee on this one when he said that the evil option in games should be the easier one - or else why would anyone ever be evil? Being good should be the harder course.

[@bbbbbbb51]

Specifically, good choices should come with self-sacrifice in some way.

[@andresfgp13]

probably Infamous has done this best, doing things right tend to be harder than just being an asshole in terms of gameplay.

[@Sykroid]

​@@andresfgp13Also in the first Infamous, the evil route gets Cole an entire new suit, black lightning, and a huge upgrade to energy capacity. Being good gives you none of these. The only reward being good gives you is the preservation of whatever good will and Karma you've developed

[@slvrcobra1337]

Funny enough, Yahtzee was this game's biggest hater

[@BitspokesV2]

I love how the two critiques in this comment section are “You’re wrong about the little turrets” and “You’re a brainwashed commie”

[@percrunner1433]

The best Bioshock game, easily. The story gets better right through the end, and the gameplay is the best in the series.

[@sewnmind1786]

The best of the 3 in my opinion. Best game play, you get to be a big daddy, it leads you on knowing you expect a twist that never comes, and. Minerva's Den, amazing.

[@hylianxbox6586]

I love how the little sisters are used in this game. You can either do a selfish act and harvest them in order to get Adam quickly or be Selfless and go through the long process in order to save the little sister Exactly what this game has been about

[@andrewdeluca7352]

You don't need to perform the gathers to rescue the little sister. You can just take them to a vent after you kill their big daddy and rescue them their.

[@pauloricardo-wn6ps]

the drill specialist gene makes bioshock 2 hands down the most fun game to play in the franchise, near unlimited plasmids and one of the best melee weapons in any FPS game it's a recipe for endless fun

[@robertmurdock1848]

The only flaw is that you don't get it until more than halfway through the game.

[@bbbbbbb51]

Every time I go back I do a full drill load out. Feels like the proper way to be playing a Big Daddy

[@bellenber]

For those of you that are fans of the Wrench in BioShock. I have good news, the Drill and Drill Dash is easily my favorite way to play. Pick up your Melee Support Plasmids, especially the one that limits you to only Plasmid Use and the Drill. Easily my favorite way to play, it also helps that it makes you an absolute monster against the enemies. Electro Bolt + Drill Dash generally will one-shot any Splicer and chew through Big Daddies and Sisters.

[@gyr0zeppeliii507]

I loved that combo too, it made me feel like I really was a big daddy like one of the bouncers from bioshock 1

[@michaellewis1545]

One thing I think BS2 dose better than then the original Bioshock is the moral choice you are given in the game. I am referring to the three people who can kill or show Mercy to. Since mechanically you can complete the mission and move on without killing. So they choice do I take vengeance or just move on with my life and the game.

[@Serpentis.]

Great video, only two issues I have though (they're kinda nitpicky though, and I may be incorrect on the latter) >Alex the Great isn't singing the Rapture Anthem. He's singing the Fontaine Futuristics jingle. >You CAN just take a Little Sister to a Vent after adopting her and Rescue her, you do not have to go through the ADAM Gathering. (Gonna do a Replay this weekend, just to make sure this is true).

[@woollypar353]

I think the fact that Lamb is pissed by Delta's actions shaping Eleanore regardless of the result shows her desire was never for a true utopian, but to own Eleanore. She wanted that control and it pisses her off that it was given to Delta. It doesn't matter if Eleanore becomes a truely selfless person if she doesn't belong to Lamb. A lot of parents are like this where they don't care what kind of person their child grows up to be, as long as that child grows up to serve and respect only them. The idea that Eleanore would idolize and learn from anyone other than her and grow up to be like someone other than her is terrifying and uncomfortable. The audio logs show Lamb teaching Eleanore how to be like her and her specific beliefs. To realize it was out of her hands this whole time made her decide to scrap the entire thing because neither Eleanore nor creating a purely selfless human ever mattered to Lamb. The first thing Lamb tells us is that Eleanore is her's, as if she's a thing to belong to someone, and given how obsessed she is with occupying 100% of the girl's thoughts, it's safe to say that's her main concern here. Ownership. Also the statues in Dionysus Park are covered up because Stanely's covering up the truth of what happened there

[@MrJonman247]

Don’t want to inflate your ego too much Monty, but your long-form analysis on individual titles is up there on this site with Noah Caldwell-Gervais for me (particularly your Remedy trilogy, and especially the Control essay). This is an excellent continuation of form and I look forward to what’s next

[@MontyZander]

As a big fan of NCG’s stuff that does inflate my ego

[@Smylie-Guy]

@@MontyZander I agree with the above commentary, out of all the long form essay KZbinrs yours I think are so very well written and discussed I come back to watch and routinely fall asleep to your soothing accent. Thank you. Edit: had to double check you didn't already do it , I'd love to hear your interpretation and examination of the reboot of Prey

[@kyddkreature9801]

This is fact... AND why he earned a sub from me 😁

[@cburger4life144]

I agree. I feel like I’ve stumbled onto a big KZbinr just before they blow up

[@ZeroCiero]

Hey MZ, great to be able to contribute to one of your projects. Thanks for having me!

[@SageofStars]

Pausing at one point so I can make a comment here, because I want to, and like with Bioshock itself, I'll probably be making more than one of these. That said, I wanted to comment on Sinclair himself. There's a single difference that really makes all the difference between him and everyone else who we saw in Bioshock 1 in terms of business. Sustainability. In the words of a betentacled horror from beyond the stars(Sam Starfall from the Webcomic Freefall), why steal everything a man has today, when you can steal half of it today, and then repeat for every month for the rest of his life? Basically, he doesn't care about you, he'll take you for every wooden nickel he can get, but he knows the fable of the golden goose. He knows not to kill the thing for a payout today, when that same payout can multiply over the coming years. He's the type of businessman that used to be common and helped setup some of the better lasting businesses through the years...that heir descendants basically piss on the grave of every time they pull their shit in the modern day. Everyone's trying to be John Blunt, when they should be trying to be Robert Walpole. Sure, he's still just as greedy a bastard, and will trick you into thanking him for taking all can, but at least he wants to leave you with enough to earn him more later. Sinclair is the latter. Sure, he could make Delta take a dive, more than once he could abandon him and just leave the moment he's got what he wants, but he doesn't. Heck, he'll only withhold a bit of info, and he'll fess up the moment it'll come out anyway, BEFORE it does so to the determent of the party he's with. As I said, we need more people like him.

[@MontyZander]

He also makes plans with Delta for why they’ll do when they get out, whether or not you believe him is up to you, but by the end I think he saw you as business partners and i like that reading.

[@SageofStars]

@@MontyZander Agreed. He sees you as the muscle, and maybe even a bit of the brains since you figure out HOW to do things. But he's the planning and the cunning. You can figure out the how, sure, but he figures out the WHAT. Together, the two of you could go up to New York, and make a killing on the market.

[@HyperionStudios]

Feel free to add or correct me but, I've always wondered with the amount of resources, influence, and idealistic vision Andrew Ryan had, that instead of causing or forcing reform on the surface, he built an entire city to try and prove a point. Amazing video and game series overall though mate.

[@ruffethereal1904]

I like to think there was a part of him that could not stand the idea of being proven wrong and the "parasites" feeding off the corpse of his attempt at a utopia. Rapture would have failed even faster if it had easier access to functioning societies, imports, and outside critique. It'd be like if Ryan legit tried to build a Cryptoland or an expensive libertarian state beset by bears for lack of public trash collection.

[@homeygfunkoffacherryfruitl4971]

Cause in the end he was still a petty and spiteful man who did it literally as an "up yours" to the governments of the world.

[@HyperionStudios]

@@homeygfunkoffacherryfruitl4971 That's a very good point. After all, Ryan was just as much a citizen of Rapture as the rest. Egocentric, defiant against the governments of the surface, and tossing away morality in the pursuit of "freedom".

[@Horatio787]

Wow, never noticed that before. But I guess that's just a politicians and business owners fallacy.

[@ruffethereal1904]

@@Horatio787 The irony of how grand his vision and vast his aspirations were, he was still such a petty, vindictive man. Changing the surface would help the parasites and there was nothing Andrew Ryan despised more.

[@ske-pho3049]

“Utopia cannot precede the Utopian. It will exist the moment we are fit to occupy it.” -Dr. Sophia Lamb She was absolutely correct. As Gil Alexander adequately proven, the collective is only as good as the pool that it encompasses. If they were all splicers who were tainted by objectivism, then the utopian will consist of that mix. Come to think of it, Gil was actually a success to her logic. He is the pinnacle of what a utopian should be in terms of what Lambs premises were. It was simply the conclusion that she didn’t anticipate. She said that if we take all the citizens and put everything about them into a singular consciousness then we would get the utopian. Well Lamb, you succeeded and yet averted your gaze from the result.

[@thomhayes3170]

Side note: “imago” is also a psychological term for our internal impression of a significant “object” in our lives - “object”, in this case, referring to the significant caregiver figures who are present (or neglectful) in our lives during infancy and early childhood - who is idealized as an all good “good object” or all bad “bad object” depending on their ability to consistently do an adequate job of nurturing, protecting, providing and otherwise soothing the death anxieties of the child (hunger, fear, etc.). Because our most fundamental understanding of our “self” is that of an idealized, wholly “good” self that is created from a conglomerate of all of the imagos of all of these “good objects” (or, conversely, an unstable, internalized hatred of the self, because a baby’s lack of distinction between caregiver and self causes it to project the neglectful behavior of a “bad object” caregiver back onto itself, & the resultant self-destructiveness and inability to create a stable self leading to conditions such as BPD) these internal representation “imagos” forever persist inside our heads as a utilitarian component of our fundamental understanding of “good”. Lamb, as a psychologist, likely used this concept of “imago” as “a wholly good internal representation that guides a person’s behavior as they stride towards being a good person” as an analogy for placing all of Rapture’s collective consciousness into Eleanor’s brain as a means to create an ultimate living vessel to pursue good will. The irony of course is that Lamb, with her distant emotional coldness and narcissism, is the epitome of the “bad object” caregiver.

[@campbellsoup93]

"This is just one of many angry dad simulators that pervade modern games" Whoa whoa whoa. Hold the hell up g. This isn't 'just one of' the angry dad simulators. It's the FIRST angry dad simulator. Get that straight. Delta walked so Joel could run.

[@brielziebub]

dude the quality of these videos is fuckin insane; i really appreciate these essays they are so calming and entertaining

[@monstergelo1072]

point of contention about the little sister escort: 1. you can go straight to the vent after adopting them, except the first one in amusement park 2. there's more than necessary corpse to start harvesting/horde mode (except for the first one). You can open the map and see all available corpse 3. you're penalized for killing little sister as you get less resources, saving little sister netting you gifts containing rare ammo and adams

[@robertmurdock1848]

About #3 , no you get more ADAM in both games harvesting the little sisters. Now , if you mean killing without doing any gathering , you miss out on some ADAM , okay. But the ADAM gifts never make up the difference ; harvesting gets more ADAM , saving gets exclusive plasmids and tonics. Edit: in 2 the highest possible ADAM is by saving the first four , then harvest the last 8 with the Proud Parent tonic equipped. The ammo gifts are not rare types , and unless you're an absolute horrible shot , ammo isn't a problem in either game. Unless you choose to only use a limited number of weapons by choice or by not bothering to pick them up.

[@Tausami]

For the record, "religion is the opiate of the masses" is misunderstood today. Opium was considered a miracle in Marx's time. It was the first drug that effectively got rid of pain. It made surgery possible. But it also was addictive. That dichotomy was what Marx was referring to

[@grumpfrog8602]

I don't know that i agree with this take. I don't know if you're a marxist but i consider myself to be, and the original quote comes from "A contribution to the Critique of Hegel's philosophy of right." Which is a book whose whole introduction, where this quote comes from, is explaining the importance of criticising religion. The full sentence " Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people." I think this is quite firmly saying that religion functions more to numb the senses of people who are experiencing oppression. marx encourages overthrowing oppression, therefore, religion actually functions to keep people oppressed because they are unable to properly analyze and understand their circumstances. If you don't agree, that's fine, but in my opinion that seems the more accurate interpretation of Marx's words and being anti-religious seems the more accurate conclusion of Marx's beliefs.

[@uziel1447]

Because of this video, i started to play Bioshock 2. I had a great time with it. I even think that is better than the first part, because of the more personal story. To fight yourself through armies of splicers, big daddies and sisters to save your eleanor's life and soul, is a much better motivation for me, than to be an errand boy for atlas. Thank you for this deep analysis 😀

[@AshenVictor]

The central thesis of the Selfish Gene theory is not "our genes make us selfish", it's actually the opposite. Our genes being selfish make *us* altruistic. From the point of view of a gene perpetuating copies of itself it does not matter which body those genes are in. So a behaviour which benefits two other people which have a copy of the "benefit other people" gene is twice as effective as a selfish behaviour which only benefits the body it happens to have generated for itself.

[@ZeroTheHeartlessKing]

52:37 i did hear somewhere the team WANTED to make a teleporting plasmid but it was buggy and messed up the game so they only added the warping plasmid segment as a tongue and cheek joke about that

[@turtleanton6539]

Sad

[@CAMSLAYER13]

I had the quest arrow off most of the time. Rapture is actually quite well signposted and many of the missons have you go somewhere and imo it made the world feel less linear since I'd get a little lost sometimes and end up organically exploring. Although i would use it for hints if the mission was something like "find x thing in this random area" if it started taking too long. I also didn't realise their was a map untill like the end of the game but because of the signs its quite easy to find your way around even if you forget the layout.

[@gldni17]

Okay, a couple points I wanted make, overall great video, you did an amazing job with research and presentation. 1. You are NOT required to do gathering encounters to save Little Sisters, you can just take them to a vent and rescue them (I see someone else pointed this out already, sorry but I had to get it out of my system). The game does a poor job of explaining this, but it is true. You do miss out on a decent amount of ADAM, but if you invest in a few very powerful high-level plasmids like Decoy 3 and Security Command 2 and 3, you can make that ADAM go very far. 2. The reason Sofia is mad about you affecting Eleanor is in the first cutscene, where Lamb says a single thing that tips you off to her entire drive and character. "This is Eleanor. She is mine." Sofia only ever cared about creating her ideal in her own name and image. You have taken that from her simply by existing, and now she chooses to burn The Cause for the sake of spiting the one who took what she viewed as rightfully hers. She's a selfish, manipulative sociopath who has somehow convinced herself that she's the epitome of empathy, despite seemingly being incapable of experiencing empathy.

[@jayboi7063]

As many times I have played these games. It’s so cool to see it broken down like this. You mentioned so many things that went over my head. Nice series

[@turtleanton6539]

Same😊

[@MrDrakezilla]

God damn, your long form critique content is really good. You put in way more effort than you need to for an already mammoth task. Thanks for the videos!

[@MontyZander]

Thank you for the kind comment!

[@jacobgeorge2276]

This is such a good critique and analysis of the game! A lot of the thoughts I had while playing the game were the thoughts you talked about. I'm really glad you brought up the 3 states of Delta's consciousness or the varying level design choices and Lamb's hypocrisy towards her own cult. Seriously good video, can't wait for the Infinite analysis/critque.

[@british_punk_1656]

If bioshock 2 and infinite is angry dad simulator then bioshock 1 is angry son simulator.

[@CollinJosephNeal]

Incredible video, very much in love with how you describe the story, interactions, style and comparisons to real life individual's and experiences that are similar which makes you more immersed in Bioshocks lore. Thanks for making these and releasing them for all to hear and watch.

[@leviadragon99]

A friend and I have been slowly but surely doing a playthrough of these games together as a retrospective of sorts. We've been discussing the themes as we go, and haven't held back on the criticism. This essay has provided me with a little more insight on elements I'm retrospectively embarrassed I missed or misconstrued. The critical breakage was that I had mistakenly assumed the game was narrowly focused on Egalitarian Collectivism, rather than it being far more sharply aware of the distinction between that and Hierarchical Collectivism than I gave it credit for. Ultimately my reading of the piece ended up oriented around how muddled and confused it seemed when viewed through the lens of a critique directed at Socialism specifically. I frankly should have known better considering how often oligarchies and dictatorships cloak themselves in propagandist garb, pretending to be Socialist, so in light of that I have somewhat more fondness and respect for the game now.

[@MontyZander]

It’s all interpretative! Don’t take my word as gospel - I think there’s a fair reading of the game as messing up socialist deconstruction

[@drake96969]

A bit late to this party but I think there shouldn’t be a disincentive to harvest little sisters. If there is, then the message is muddled. Saving them is a chore, it is labour, it is hard. Being greedy, taking what you want from the little people (literally in this case) is easy. Having this then impact Eleanor makes sense too, you are her father figure, you lead by example. In reality the way you treat others will impact everyone’s view of how people ought yo be treated. This is especially true with children. So if your goal is to protect your little girl, at the expense of everyone else, your “fuck you I gotta protect my own” mentality will bleed into your ward.

[@LeftSinkHandle]

Can't wait for the Bioshock Infinite vid now

[@arguingsemantics4790]

Awesome analysis and super unique perspective. Can't wait to see the next one. But I have to um... actually a second here and point out that 2 was not developed by irrational. Irrational had been rebranded as 2k Boston before the first bioshock and branded back to Irrational for Infinite but 2k Marin developed B2 while Irrational was focused on infinite. Seriously though otherwise I loved the video.

[@azamonra]

I always liked Bioshock 2 better then the first game cause I felt more invested in Delta getting Eleanor back and the ending(s) felt more um enjoyable for lack of a better word. I'd saved all the Little Sisters in my first playthrough of Bioshock 1, mainly cause I thought they were really cute, and I liked the idea of giving them (semi)-normal lives. So I decided to do an "evil" run in the sequel and it was pretty hard killing the Sisters cause I was also going on harvest runs to get max Adam so them reacting to Delta like an abuser (which he was) hit pretty hard. Bobby's audio log really made it worse. I honestly had to pause the game and take a minute after hearing it. It felt weirdly satisfying to see Eleanor "taking after" Delta even as a bloodthirsty monster. And the fact that even then she still wanted to keep "daddy" with her forever was sweet...more so in the "good" ending since she wasn't doing it in the context of Delta whispering "kill everybody, it's fun" in her hear to the backdrop of thousands of floating corpses.

[@sethandseth2]

Small little thing that I haven't seen anyone mention but Irrational didn't develop BioShock 2. Irrational made 1 and then dove straight into making (and remaking ad nauseam...) Infinite while a separate team was created by 2K specifically to make BioShock 2. Not a big thing in the grand scheme but I thought it was worth mentioning, an incredible video otherwise, this and your BioShock 1 video. I can't wait to see what you have to say about Infinite

[@supinearcanum]

Maybe all the ice is the metaphor for Imago in this instance? Like, if Imago is the final transformation, maybe what they are trying to say is that Lambs goal will leave them frozen and unable to truly change, cold, distant, and unable to relate to people but also unable to reach the altruism and hope they are looking to find? If this is what they're aiming for, it seems like they are signposting poorly, but that's the best I'm seeing from here.

[@alexanderchippel]

I'm gonna call bullshit on that Jordan Peterson bit. I saw that clip and he wasn't crying "because people were making fun of him on Twitter." In that clip he's talking about the emails he's gotten from people who were depressed or suicidal that claimed his "clean your room" philosophy saved them from a very miserable and a very short life. Peterson is a shill and and grifter but being emotional because someone took your advance, as obvious and cliche as it is, and was able to lose their desire to kill themselves is not something to hold the against the guy. Like I enjoyed the video up to that point but I know for a fact that clip in specifically is not what you said it is, and I absolutely despise people lying to my face.

[@kevinjmccloy5865]

“The figure head is the issue not the philosophy itself” I agree with this statement for most Philosophy/political ideas, a strong selfless leader is hard to come by in any society, whether it’s capitalism or socialism, the figurehead will usually be a weak puppet controlled by a group of politics who care about their own self interest over actually benefitting society. This isn’t unique to capitalism, this is the game of politics. Do you seriously think that all those money grubbing, power hungry mad conspirators would actually let a selfless person take the reigns of the country? I highly doubt it because it would be detrimental to those who hold power and don’t want to lose it

[@franciscoteixeira174]

Your videos are quickly becoming my favorite analysis in this platform, keep the good work my dude

[@vaultatropos116]

The review should be renamed "Bioshock 2 Critique | Real Collectivism Has Never Been Tried"

[@Cbald]

I've played and analyzed the BioShock games for years and yet you still managed to tease out some things that I had never considered. Excellent stuff

[@sunionbro1048]

Thanks for making me realize angry dad motivated by child was an entire genre of video game Monty

[@pqfire0950]

2 was my personal favorite. By the end I always feel so emotional. Damn it now I'm cryin.

[@drakenfist]

I agree 100% with what you said about the "Big Sister". I love their character design so much. But the lack of lore on them is really saddening. They really should have been built up more as a part of the plot. But because they don't they feel a lot like a filler character. Also I don't remember whether you went into it or not. But I think they took away a lot of the tension by making the big sister a mini boss after you harvested/saved all the little sisters in the level. It's like "last little sister, here comes another boss fight". I think they should have kept the big sister as just one character that you fight all through out the game. Frustrating for players?. Sure. But I think if they added the lore and really built up the big sister more. That would have added to the tension and ultimately sadness and tragedy of the character. They should have doubled down in the tragedy of the character and made it so that when players have a option to deliver the killing blow at the end. They don't want to and it pains them too much to go through with it.

[@turtleanton6539]

Yes. Agreed 😊

[@stevenguitink5947]

As an Aussie, I do like the fact that you made that Imago joke by referencing the Aussie band The Butterfly Effect :)

[@SageofStars]

Another comment, and one I want to make because you didn't...possibly for good reason, but it's my comment and I get to do what I want. Wet t-shirt contest, activate!...wait no, let's do something that drips all over the discussion and makes things harder to talk about. That being race in Bioshock...2, not Infinite. Anyway, for anyone who's never played Bioshock 2's fantastic DLC(Like seriously, it's one of the best DLCs in terms of adding to the world and lore in a way that makes sense), there's a single line that really made me think about this, as it's not the first time someone asked it in a setting like Bioshock. Porter is asked, casually, at a party, why he doesn't 'Splice White'. That is...it's a casual line, but it has SO many connotations to it that it would take a video as long as our good Mr. Zander's to really go into depth with it. As I'm writing a fanfic in another window, I'll try to keep this brief, but it probably will be a bit wordy. Turning aside from the line's historical connections, there is that question. Rapture was a fashion paradise. You had thinkers and artists, and they did their craft. You had the masks, the suits, and all the things that high society talks about. You had a literal plastic surgeon on call with his very own area of the city dedicated to his clinic. And yet, if it's so easy to 'Splice White' that someone would mention it casually...why has no one done anything else it? Steinman talks in the first game about getting rid of symmetry as his big artistic expression. But then, why is he using such boring colors. After all, Picasso didn't paint the color of the world, he used hues far and away outside the norm, to help give his pieces life. This actually reminds me of a movie and a book from a few decades back that I don't actually know if anyone will remember. The film was Surrogates, staring everyone's favorite cowboy cop, Bruce Willis. In the film, and the book of which it was based, there's robots you drive by plugging into a bed like thing at home, allowing you to send the robot out to do your living for you, while your remain safe and snug, never going out into the dangerous world. In the film, this has resulted in a golden age of people wanting to look like movie stars. The average walk down the street has perfect hair, perfect smiles, and everyone's face looks like it was just glossed over with makeup, and nary a strand will be out of place on their clothing or the like. In the book, there's mention of how people said screw that a year or so after the Surrogates came out. Fashion demands change, and since you could change ANYTHING about yourself, Fashion demanded you change all of it. Walking down the street you would see elves and orcs, Vulcans and Klingons, hell he describe a puppeteer(Two headed species from known space novels by Larry Niven) at one point, and mentioning it was a trend for a while to be non-humanoid for a bit, and that person was behind the times. And that's where Rapture should be at. Again, Plasmids and Adam took about 3-5 years to truly collapse Rapture, and you had entire groups of people in fashion focused industries. Cohen himself should have demands not just masks, but the ability to actual have rabbit ears, something to be used, and then discarded like a t-shirt. Again, like with the movie Surrogates, you don't see that because words can describe something cheaply, but there's a reason I bring it up, and that reason is...Ryan would not have liked any of this. While it's a retcon, it's one that ties so well into what happened to Rapture that it just...sings to me. Think about. Ryan, for all his ideals, was a human being, and he was, by his own admission, disgusted by the Little Sisters and the Big Daddies. They were necessary, but he wasn't about to have them walking about at all times. And we know he was willing to 'disappear' those who went against his vision of how Rapture should be, so anyone who wanted to push the limits of self advancement was pushed aside. Sure, you could refine yourself. bigger, faster, smarter, but by the gods that he would allow into the city, you better darn well still have ten toes and ten fingers at the end of it all. I'll have more to say later, but it's just a thought that rolled around in my head, because...what is the one change he would allow? To become 'normal' in his eyes, and that means that the only cosmetics he'd allow would move to that. So the first thing he'd think of was...why not 'Splice White'?

[@mrfreddorenton]

I'm of the opinion that although Delta is the embodiment of selfishness - he NEEDS to find Eleanor to the exclusion of all other people and priorities - it's more interesting to see how he exposes the sincerity or lack thereof in the other survivors in how collective they're going to stay under the pressures of current Rapture

[@bigounce562]

I understood the first game because I had just listened to Rush's 2112 for the first time and used Ayn Rand as a research source for a class I was taking. BS2 was a bit more opaque for me thematically. Both games basically explore cults and their consequences, and I hadn't thought it that way before. These 3 games are remarkable in different ways. I cannot harvest a little sister or throw a ball at the interracial couple. I don't care about endings or branching stories; for me these are a gold standard for confronting the player with choice. I hope Infinite is next in the series. There's a lot of really unique American stuff on which I'd like to hear another perspective.

[@StinkleDink]

This is such a good analysis. Your writing is eloquent and the tone is perfect throughout, whether you're speaking on real world tragedies and issues or making references to comedies. Keep it up!

[@antcig]

I prefer the subversion of the second game: something about Peach watching Mario struggle, realizing he need her help and escorting him to the end of the game is a nice subversion of the usual save the princess plot. I think Delta is one of the extremely rare silent protagonist that I like, first because his mutisme is acknowledged in universe and because it let what he is truly ambiguous: he can be a barely intelligent zombie with a basic compulsion to join and obey Eleanor or a selfless paladin ready to help anyone in need or an egoist sociopath who doesn't care about anyone but himself and anything between those extremes. Eleanor might be completely wrong in what her father is or think, and will remain so if you took the sacrifice ending.

[@EvelynDayless]

There was actually both Kool-aid and Flavor Aid at Jonestown. There's witness accounts of the massacre scene saying packets of both were strewn around, and there's video footage of Jones himself touring their stores where you can see boxes of both. I always kinda wonder if the flavor-aid thing was pushed by Kraft to try to distance themselves from the phrase.

[@znpc5118]

What a great video! Love the editing and theme and the way you tackle these harder concepts, and offer good examples. Subscribed!! Keep up the good work :)

[@MontyZander]

Thanks!

[@efnfen]

These retrospectives are masterful and your two on the Bioshocks set in Rapture single-handedly got me to download all three and play the first two again. I haven't played Infinite but will soon. Good work. I love your retrospectives and the series where your non-gamer partner tries them.

[@DavetheTurnip]

That was great! I never understood the purpose of Lamb’s plan and you were able to explain it to me. I loved your insight and analysis, and was pleased that you covered Minerva’s Den as well. I think I used the line “this is what I wish Bioshock 2 had been” in my own video. 😁 I’m very much looking forward to what you have to say about Infinite 😃

[@MontyZander]

Thanks!

[@galaxy-wg1lf]

Most dad game ever. The good ending on my first playthrough made me pretty much well up. 9/10 Would dad again.

[@thesummerofmark]

There’s a room, the marketing department, I can’t recall if in the main game or the DLC, with plasmid schematics, advertisements and roadmaps for releases. I am a marketing guy so I had a good laugh exploring. I think this also explains where the collective made their banners, maybe they had a printing press or something there

[@cheez3184]

It was in Fontaines place where you meet Alexander the great

[@alexandragabitto2573]

Tbh I never thought the lore of Bioshock 2 could ever really stand on its own as it would be nothing without the story established in the original Bioshock for obvious reasons, but it’s my favorite just because it managed to make me feel like I was both a lived in part of Rapture and a stranger to it all at once. I was returning home, but I was still a foreigner in my own country, a country falling apart quite literally, a country that I never really saw completely before, a country that suffered from poverty and poorly managed politics and injustices that may have seemed unimportant but were still very human tragedies. While I was playing the original game, Rapture felt absolutely fascinating yet volatile. I felt as if I was part of the story, but I wasn’t the average Rapturian joe and never would be - as Delta I actually did have that experience and I was able to get to know how the average Rapturian lived…and, of course, I loved it!

[@Jay_555_Maroon]

00:02:59 Actually, I did play BioShock 2 before I played BioShock... which made it a bit difficult to go from the 2nd game to the 1st, because I'd gotten so used to the, in my opinion, much more intuitive combat of BioShock 2 (dual wielding was a lot more fun for me, personally). Although I was very excited to learn more about Ryan, whom I found very interesting and who plays a less central role in BioShock 2.

[@cupcakecharm12]

Your bio shock series are some of the best I’ve ever seen. Keep up the good work!

[@goawaythemightyneed]

you don't need to harvest to save the sisters. you can go to a vent at any time, the game just doesn't tell you

[@Aproximal]

Sorry if this is a tiny thing, but thank you so much for putting the music in the description. I love music, and when an essay has good music but I can't find it, it's maddening. Thank you so much!!!

[@spouwnerring]

What I like about the audio diaries is that most of the photos are of real people dressed in Rapture atire. It makes the game for me more scarry as the people who recorded have likely died a very violent death or have spliced themselfs beyond all recognition.

[@timbuckley321]

Thanks for highlighting the story's nuances, as they were pretty hard to absorb while one is focused on trying to study and survive the numerous waves enemies that wanted to end the game early and seemed to eat ammo for breakfast lol

[@Null_Experis]

The Big Sister problem would have been solved if each encounter was with a "version" of her that used a new weapon or tool you didn't have, and instead of killing her, you'd damage her and she'd drop the item. By the time of the final confrontation, you could face a version of her with ALL those tools, but you'd ALSO have all of them. This way there's no sense of frustration that she "got away", you beat her and she left something useful. You are rewarded for your skill.

[@turtleanton6539]

Yes😊