Moog ONE Revisited - Oscillator Compensation

[@StevenTrytten]

I'm late to the party but this is a great video. Tim's point is valid and important. I was also late to the party in buying a Moog One, which I bought in fall of 2023 (16V). I quickly learned about v. 1.5 and installed it and did all the calibrations, and it solved the tuning problems for my unit. I haven't seen any other bugs (yet). I love my Moog One and I'm very glad I bought it. I'm sure I'll be exploring and learning about this instrument for many years to come.

[@surrogatemarker]

I’m a Moog one owner.. yes I’ve come across similar issues and I too would like Moog to reach out to Tim for his input as all he wants to do is make this synth better .. which of course is what we all want.

[@danielpirone8028]

When folks like Tim and our resident saint of PWM at sonic state both politely mention significant bugs, I will continue to hold off. Thank you for the detailed and careful video

[@danapfranz]

Yep. I have the dough, and the fascination with the promise of this synth, but...it's not ready yet. Not buying until it gets smoothed out a bit more. Bummer, because I was just about to push the buy button, then did a couple of evenings of research....and...nope.

[@IanAlderige]

I just had to return mine for a volume issue, I'm completely heart broken. :( Hopefully the next batch will be better, It sounds incredible when it works they way it's supposed to, like an orchestra of synths playing all at once. I own an Alesis Andromeda and the Moog sounds like 3 of them together, stunning.

[@mosspa1]

@@danapfranz I also have a "special bank account" that is now funded to the extent that I can actually afford to purchase one. That Moog appears to have completely abdicated any responsibility for this synth or information (except advertising hype associated with it), causes me to distrust the company and hold off on purchasing something this expensive until I am assured that it is functioning correctly. Maybe Moog employees should wory more about product quality than unionization!

[@sebastiennudo7792]

I am holding off buying this synth, for the price you should expect more then those bugs.

[@aeon136]

ALL Analog Oscillators drift -that's WHY they usually have an 'Auto-Tune' algorithm to run periodically. I learned THAT with my Sequential Circuits Six-Trak back in '85! If U can't STAND Oscillator Drift on ANY ANALOG Keyboard -Maybe you should stick to ONLY playing DIGITAL Synths! 🙄

[@123asteele]

Great video Tim! It appears that Moog has came out with a new Firmware v1.5 that (Moog's words) "improve the tuning and calibration of the many precision analog circuits on the Moog One voice cards. The improved Voice Card Calibration routines can potentially tighten the intonation, filter tracking, and level matching between voices of the instrument, providing enhanced musicality, consistency, and more precise stereo imaging for your sounds." It would be great if you can put together another video on this Firmware v1.5 and if it addresses, amongst other issues, the oscillator compensation issues you mention. I'm keen to own a Moog One but I'm holding off due to the oscillator compensation issues. Firmware v1.5 possibly solves these issues and another video from you on this would be great to gain your thoughts on what Firmware v1.5 brings to the table.

[@csu111]

When Tim finally gives the thumbs up on this unit I’ll buy it. Once again great video.

[@seek4truth]

I don't own any Moog and I am very new to Synthesizers, but I fully understood all of your explanations and learned a few useful things! Tim, you are gifted with teaching abilities. If you were a professor in my university, i wouldn't hesitate a second to register for all of your courses and work my a.. off to pass the final exams with full joy! I am a university lecturer (computer scince and A.I) so i really know and believe in what I said about you. Simply thank you for being awesome!

[@TimShoebridge]

Wow, amazing feedback. Thank you so much :)

[@deanzarras7480]

Seconded, as a Moog One owner, professional software developer, and Excel user… the way you used the latter as a teaching tool was fantastic!

[@mosspa1]

Thirded, from another Ph.D. academic teaching neuroscience and EE.

[@CircuitKisser]

Tim - absolutely fantastic video. I'm a proud Moog One owner as well. I'm actually on my second Moog One. My first had tuning issues that even the deep calibration was unable to fix. When the oscillator compensation update dropped, the tuning issues actually became MORE apparent. As you mentioned, the adjustment is happening in real time, and for some of my more out of tune voices, you could actually hear an artifact of the note "gliding" into the center of the pitch. (I have documented recordings of this if you're interested) My current unit is quite a bit more in tune and I most often play with OC turned off, a luxury I definitely didn't have on my first. That, combined with the phase cancelation issue, always made me feel like OC was a bandaid; a temporary solution. I do know that a major firmware update is headed our way in the coming months and I sincerely hope there's a better tuning fix. Per voice, per oscillator tuning would be an interesting solution so owners can tweak only the voices that are really unbearably bad, as opposed to just normal analog variance that we all know and love. Superb work!

[@station2station544]

I had three different Moog ONE 16v's in rapid exchange fashion, and completely independent of your issues, I had bugs on each from locked up permanently (even with power cycles), to no left channel audio. After the 3 unique Moog ONE 16v's I had to bow out. My poor retailer was besides themselves with Moog. I hear there's going to be a big holiday 2021 firmware revision coming up. I wish you guys the best. I would love to see this Land Rover become the staple of sound and reliability it should have been from inception.

[@DJFresh]

‘Land rover’ 👍

[@bororobo7036]

Range Rover, as well. Just a headache.

[@dorothyshrodinger]

Agree with you. As a Moog One owner, I'd like it to be a legendary synth with all the deserved fixes. Hope Moog will watch this video. Thanks for the great feedback.

[@DJFresh]

🙈 as a Moog one owner this is definetely a disappointment. I don’t get why they can’t allow you to adjust the strength of the compensation. And that bug that happened for you happens for me all the time .. such a shame because it is a piece of art.. if they can fix these things

[@skrachdisful]

Thanks for making this video, Tim, and I hope Moog watches it. I've been a Moog Owner from the very beginning and it's just sitting here collecting dust until these issues are fixed. There's other polys in my room that work better for now.

[@mysteritmodk9572]

Tim, I love your videos. You are really good at explaning complex matters. You take your time to do it and I have learned a lot from your videos. Thank you!

[@tragus44]

Thanks Tim you just saved me $9000, I love the concept of this synth and love the sounds from Moog Matriarch. was going to buy this synth this week. Now I will wait as 9k is a lot of lunch money to share with Moog for a suboptimal execution of a great idea. Instead I think I will get a DS OB-6 seems like so much more quality for the money.

[@TimShoebridge]

What I will say is that there are plenty of happy Moog One owners out there, the issue I describe here either does not bother them or they have not noticed it or they avoid it. I did not create this video to put anyone off buying a One, but better to know the issues than not. I do know there are a lot of people who really would like to see a firmware update from Moog (and, from the comments I have read, more responsive and helpful support).

[@MFASonic]

I own both the Moog One 16v and the Sequential OB6. And I have to disagree. Though the Moog has quite a lot of issues, it delivers amazing sounds. Mostly on the polyphonic side of things, but sometimes also with basses and leads. In direct comparison, the OB6 is one of the most boring machines I've ever bought in my lifetime - admittedly I have on OB-Xa here, but even compared with two Matrix 6Rs in junction, it is not convincing at all. Don't get me wrong, I actually love Sequential/DSI for their effort and superior firmware, and I also own a Rev2-16 as well as a Pro-3 and a Prophet10. And I agree with "suboptimal execution" on the One. But you cannot compare these two.

[@justinupchurch1773]

i'm right there with you

[@goodtimesandalpines5442]

@@MFASonic hey man, I was considering a rev 2.. in your opinion, should I hold out for a prophet 10 or Moog one? Just in terms of how they sound

[@MFASonic]

@@goodtimesandalpines5442 That's very hard to answer. The Moog One is 4-times (?) as expensive as a REV2-16. And the latter comes with a very good operating system, superb presets. Of course the OSCs sound far more static, and all that crazy modulation stuff plus 2 parallel or serial filters in the Moog One plus the world class Eventide FX (if you need it) open another world. If you are into sound design, I would definitely hold out for a Moog One - the possibilities are just endless. The Prophet 10 is snappier and has more balls than both others, but don't forget it's mono. Not an issue (actually it is a feature!), but for your first real analog synth, I wouldn't know if I would choose this one. Damn, you see, it's complicated. Maybe you could get a good used REV2, and later then, you can then decide if you sell it with probably no loss and get the ONE. Or get both :) The analog synth I use the most is the Moog One by far means. For both production and just for fun. Followed by the StudioElectronics ATC-Xi (only production, not for fun). After that, it all depends on the task.

[@msld_sound]

Very very informative! I've been avoiding even thinking about a Moog One due to all the bugs I've heard about. I'd love to see a deep dive into the 1.5 firmware and whether it addresses these problems.

[@mosspa1]

Seconded, or thirded (depending on how you count these replies)

[@bororobo7036]

I was lucky with Moog One. No issues or bugs, except it somehow frozen on two sessions during 9 months. Sold it. It was 8 voice, ordered new one with 16 voices. Delivery estimate March 2023. I don't wish to buy used, as many of them could be lemons. The best analog polysynth ever made. Thank you Tim for pushing Moog R&D to continue debugging of this beast.

[@videosuperhighway7655]

How is the 16v doing?

[@MikePensini]

Really interesting video, Tim. Will have to dig into the Osc Compensation settings and explore this further.

[@rabbitfist]

Thank you for helping solve this mystery. I ran into this problem a few weeks ago with a synth layer for which I had assigned a particular number of voices. Every 6th note was silent and for a short while I thought I had a dead voice card. After rebooting and loading the same patch the problem disappeared. I still love the One and appreciate the things which are completely unique to it while also feeling disappointment in Moog's inattention and lack of communication with the users who have invested so heavily in their flagship instrument.

[@philaiken5137]

It is important, for those not familiar with the instrument, to differentiate between oscillator compensation and oscillator calibration, which does exist on The One on demand via a not so well kept secret series of button pushes. They are absolutely different things. I do not find the oscillator compensation useful at all. I suppose it has its place. Once the oscillators are satisfactorily calibrated it is also unnecessary. For me at least, any tuning issues are a thing of the past, and that seems to apply to many, if not most owners with whom I interact online.

[@philaiken5137]

​@SYNTHPUNK What does that have to do with oscillator calibration vs. compensation?

[@Beermastergeneral]

@SYNTHPUNK You’ve obviously never owned a Memorymoog then !? Of the twenty years I owned my MM, most of those years were spent trying to get techs to fix the voice tuning issues - a bad ass synth when they actually bloody work but still nowhere near the power of the One !

[@Beermastergeneral]

@SYNTHPUNK Such eloquence ! Did I touch a nerve ? So to be clear, you’ve never ‘owned’ a MM ?

[@ByronHadley1]

@SYNTHPUNK I'm honestly not trying to jab at you here SynthPunk, but for goodness sakes the Schmidt absolutely SHOULD destroy the Moog One! The Scmidt's current street price is right at $23,072! I currently own a Moog One (for just over three years now). To put it quite bluntly I am just absolutely disgusted with this pile of garbage and have been since around 6 months after I bought it. The build quality of this thing is horrible and as Tim has eloquently stated in this video, it is chock FULL of bugs. I don't think that even Oogie Boogie in Nightmare Before Christmas had as many bugs as this thing. It also seems that it takes a college level education to get any decent sounds out of it as well. On contrast I can sit down at my Prophet-10 and get good sounds out of it within minutes. And that "legendary" Moog customer service? Don't even get me started on that. When they aren't flat out ignoring me (and apparently everyone else according to multiple forums) they are flat out lying to me. Dealer got involved the last time and they (Moog) promised to send me product that they evidently had no intention of actually sending to me. Subsequent phone calls and emails from me were all ignored. Moog is just an absolutely horrible company to try to work with. Anyway, sorry everyone. I'll stop my rant now...

[@supercompooper]

@SYNTHPUNK my Solaris sounds so amazing I sold my memorymoog 😜

[@dglv9317]

Tim - your video on the VARS modulations to slightly “age” the tuning is amazing. Thank you for revisiting this. Mine came with Osc Comp on by default.. turning it off and making use of both SVF and Ladder filters in Ser mode activated the true sound of the Moog One. I think the Mono/Unison modes work really well when used with 3 voice polyphony (like the minimoog). I’d hope people can hear all these things together by default instead of having to figure it out. I too was pretty disappointed at the cost/ sound until I understood the filter

[@odiroot]

It's really incredible, this passed QA stage.

[@mikaelschloenzig9590]

Oh ,this is a touchy subject.I had BIG tuning issues and didn´t get any clue from Moog what to do .....for over a year!Because of my visit to a service center i got the deep tuning done there,and after writing Moog again and told them about going 600 km ,just to get a thing done i could have done myself at home,they let the deep tuning document out for us users.And any critique about ONE is risky business as Tim says.ONE is (very) hard to love as it is.And the fact you cant even lock the resonance to play tracked is another annoying thing (my P5 does that perfect).

[@thecylonsmusic]

Only had mine a week, watched this and realised the compensation was on by default. Sounds so much better now its off.

[@TheLondonGuitarist]

Yup, same here. It sounded odd and I figured out it was the OC. Turned it off and it sounds so much better. Mine seems to be pretty in tune to be honest, not noticed any tuning issues.

[@tobiasphilippen7883]

Dear Tim, thanks for yet another beautiful looking, enjoyable and very indepth video! You clearly have an engineer's mind, in the best sense of the word. Clear and sharp, yet also passionate about the subject. Well, I guess this combination of analog technique with a digital control surface can be flawed. I have the fantastic Alesis Andromeda, and it, too, is not very stable. It crashed (on stage!) quite a few times. With the Prophet 06, on the other hand, I have not had a single problem, great instrument. But then, its digital side seems to be rather simple. I do understand that people are a bit impatient with Moog and dissatisfied both with their performance and communication. There was a similar situation with the Akai Force, which people were bitterly complaining about because of missing features and a slow update cycle. But it can also be exciting to be part of that development process as a user, and now Akai have come up with a fantastic, game changing update, and the Force is a completely different beast now. We have an excellent technicians/engineer in Germany who is servicing my Voyager - if I am not mistaken, he was also part of the development team for this synth. I asked him about the One, and he said, he would not touch it. He said, the pots were the same as in the inexpensive Moog synth and that they often did not even survive the guarantee period. And he told me he had read that the engineers who developed the software for the One had left the company, and that he doubted whether updates would be coming ... I do hope Moog will continue to perfect this (theoretically) brilliant synth. Also because I would not know of any alternative (maybe the Andromeda in some respects).

[@stefans.9506]

Danke!

[@neilloughran4437]

Really sorry to hear about all the problems that the Moog One seems to have... I was one of those guys that was really eager to get one when they were announced, but there seems to be so many problems and uninspiring demos out there. I am sure the potential for this synth is huge but I'm feeling the vibe of the Matriarch more. Hopefully Moog will get around to making this synth the best synth of all time.... which it should be. Owning one would be making me feel a little ill to be honest...

[@Jehudi]

I love the One, it is the mothership of my studio. I always get back to the One. It has indeed its bugs, but I found out any synth I have has bugs. I had some tuning / envelope generator issues after almost 2 years, but after doing the full calibration routine (takes several hours). It sounded as new! I advice this to anyone that experiences tuning issues. I do wish for a firmware update to take out a few bugs (I only have one that bugs me). Though I'm wishing for the expansion of the mod matrix! (and much more idea's, I put them in the future requests of the Moog Forum) The thing I love about the Pro 3 is the possibility to use the FX in the mod matrix. And if unison spread & FX would be added to the matrix of the One. (I love aftertouch x unison spread, or FX x key pressure amt, ...) It would expand its capabilities a lot! I wonder if Christmas will bring us an impressive 2.0!

[@audioartisan]

I've always used Oscillator Sync to abolish the phasing. But it's that very phasing that makes everything so interesting :)

[@andyjones760]

To me this issue alone reflects really badly on Moog, never mind the other bugs you mention. I don't own one, but I've thought seriously about taking the plunge until I stumbled across your excellent videos. Agreed with you totally when you said a halfway tuning solution might be a satisfactory way out of this, especially if the degree of compensation could be user-determined. I'd hazard a guess that Moog's engineers can't be happy with the current algorithm, I find it hard to believe they'd settle for it. Either way Moog's management carry the can here.

[@superprim12]

Sir you are just pointing out the issues.... Thank you!! I was so close to buying it....

[@DaveBessell]

I suppose one more thing to say is that phase cancellation between oscillators has been around for ever. it happens all the time on a minimoog and people just got used to working with it. (Use a single oscillator for solid bass, slightly detune the three oscillators for a thick sound that also avoids complete phase cancellation.) The issue with the Moog One is really the wayward tuning of the oscillators overall. Giving customers access to the tuning calibration procedure is a fix of sorts but apparently it takes more than an hour - compare with the Alesis Andromeda where a similar calibration process takes a couple of minutes.

[@von_Apa]

I had the plan to buy one now. But I think I’ll wait until these kind of problems are fixed. It is to expensive considering all the bug issues! Thanks for your devotion and knowledge!👍🌟☑️

[@alfiedotwtf]

Ok... it's been 2 years now, so what's the verdict? You've now got the 3rd Wave and the A4 - so do you still have the Moog One and how do you see it compared to your other flagships?

[@Fallingoverbackwards]

I could listen to Tim talk about pancakes🥞 let alone my favorite subject

[@MaximizedAction]

Perfect video for me, just as I'm contemplating on buying One :D. Thank you very much for demonstrating the tuning issues and how it's likely being caused (and another bug while you were at it :)) I like to think it's hard for Moog to make it sound in tune not because of a trivial oversight, but because of the nature of the beast. There's a reason this synth took them so long to make, complexity works both ways in engineering: some otherwise trivial issues become hard in an overly complex system. But, of course, at that price point, trivial things should not be a compromise in a released product, and the customer should've have to worry about the internal complexities or development challenges, or at the least not be affected by surfacing issues. At least not for too long. And most definitely not for more than a year. It's an impressive musical instrument, and a marvel of electronic engineering. Even not owning one, I hope they make it sufficiently reliable. I won't scratch it off my list of gear to get eventually.

[@michaelfeiner]

I love my Moog One and the sounds I can get out of it, but I agree with you 100% that Moog need to fix so many things on it. I’ve got a whole list of things that I’m still waiting for to happen in a firmware update.. and it’s been taking far too long time now to be honest. It’s really annoying considering that I’ve owned the synth now for 2,5 years and I’m still waiting for it to work as would expect… My hope is that Moog make a very focused effort to deal with solving all the problems with it so that it fully can become the super synth it deserves to be, and also to respect all people who have invested in it to make them happy and satisfied with such an expensive instrument. Come on Moog! You can do it! ❤️

[@ubiquitousreverser]

@SYNTHPUNK 🤣🤣😳

[@marklholloway]

Early 2020 I was about to be a Moog One owner. I placed an order with a reseller then cancelled it the next day before it shipped. They were not happy. Mainly because this issue has plagued resellers as well as customers. I cannot bring myself to invest $9,000 into a synth with a known defect. I feel for you and others who purchased a Moog One and still do not have a fully working synth. Given the amount of time that has gone buy I think any software updates are only a band aid to a problem that likely needs to be addressed through hardware repair. :(

[@xntricity6446]

I agree, Moog must have been very aware of the issues when launched to the public and I guess hardware fixes are really the only way to handle this. It's a classic example of poor project management, launch before the job is complete.

[@tommyg5095]

@@xntricity6446 I am sure Moog knew about problems with the ONE... And yet to get R.O.I. , the company chose to release a product known to them at that time to be defective. In essence, buyers were scammed. Truly scammed...

[@xntricity6446]

@@tommyg5095 its debatable possibly because i have seen many professionals demo the moog one on KZbin and the issues have not deterred them. Probably the most complex poly synth of all time so some non critial issues im sure can be overlooked in the grand scheme of things.

[@Kkidzz]

I've been on the fence the last two years......have demo'd it a handful of times but never found the raw sound jaw-dropping. It's a modern Poly and has that 'Brightness/sheen' that I don't viscerally connect with.....even with all the FX/Mods turned off. Looking forward to the 'rumoured' OBXa coming out from Sequential....fingers crossed.

[@mikaelschloenzig9590]

Can only agree, my Prophet 5 rev 4 impresses me more than my ONE when tweaking,and just check all sounds made from prophets owners compared to ONE ,but i will keep it and hope Tims reached out hand to Moog makes the situation better.

[@dglv9317]

The true raw sound shines if you use both SVF and Ladder filters in Ser mode with the filter mix to the Ladder.. I too was a bit defeated by the thinner sounds. Once I started using both filters on all patches and sounds I made, it provides a simular overdrive and thickness as the MemoryMoog imo.. for Mono sounds use unison with a limit of 3 voice polyphony to add weight 🙏🏻

[@mathmanmrt]

you have no need to feel even a little defensive about being exacting in your standards. here in the states the moog one is a $9,000 investment which absolutely should not have an issue such as this phase cancellation issue which is so noticeable. i'd be annoyed to have a problem like that in my $350 microfreak much less in something like this. besides, the body of your work here, from your video essays about synthesis to your creation of sound banks for synthesizers, lends a great deal of credibility to your criticisms.

[@Claude_van]

That’s very interesting and fascinating! My new poly-synthesizer, the Salaya E7 from Argentina (digitally controlled, analog signal path, discrete circuits) has phasing in the oscillators which leads to a beautiful phasing when you play chords. It almost sounds like a CS-80 or GX-1. At the same time it’s not out of tune and always sounds lively and true analog. So it’s possible!

[@666JGNotts]

Great video Tim and it comes through very clearly that you love the synth but there’s a few things that spoil the whole experience and stop it from being the best synth ever - which on paper it really should be

[@l00kns33]

Good information to know for us who are still considering to take the plunge. I’ll be extending the waiting game.

[@musicworkshop]

0 seconds ago I’m a Moog One and a MiniMoog reissue owner. When I saw your video the first thing that came to mind was if you have two identical wave forms, especially triangle or square waves perfectly in tune you’re going to get phase cancellation on any analogue synth. So I tried the same thing you did on the Moog one on my MiniMoog and it went in and out of phase as well to the point of a split second of silence then back again. That’s my only other analogue synth with 2 oscillators so I couldn’t test it on anything else, but I would guess you would get the same results on any analogue synth.

[@TimShoebridge]

Yes you're right. The point I am making with the Moog One is that its oscillator compensation algorithm freezes the phase cancellation effect at the point you press a key and plays it constantly the whole time you hold down that key. It's something to be aware of and to avoid.

[@musicworkshop]

Got it. I just leave it off. I wasn’t even aware it was there until I saw your video. I’m glad they left it off when you install the 1.4 firmware. Keep doing your thing Tim. I enjoy your insights.

[@DaveBessell]

Its interesting to compare this to the Alesis Andromeda which has similar specs and also has tuning compensation going on. Without it the Andromeda is usually miles out of tune when powered up, with each of the many oscillators out by different amounts. Running the autotune each time its powered on takes about 1- 2 minutes and then everything is fine. Interestingly with none of the phase variability that you demonstrate on the moog. So its obviously working in a different way. The Andromeda also has a secondary tuning compensation feature that can be activated independently from the lengthy autotune process. This continuously monitors oscillator drift due to changes in heat. That's kind of optional unless you are in an environment where the temperature fluctuates a lot but that also does not cause phase issues. These autotuning processes are independent of things like forcing the oscillators to start at the same phase each time, or setting beat offset for the oscillators. So my point is that Moog have a ready made example of how to do this properly, just copy what the Andromeda does. I really like the sound of the Moog One but this kind of amateurish attempt to control the tuning on a very expensive instrument means I will not be buying one in the foreseeable future. Which is a shame.

[@tomski2671]

The problem with expensive things is that because they are not many owners of them, there is not enough people to hammer the manufacturer with complaints.

[@nectariosm]

What are the chances of this being sorted now that Moog has been bought by inMusic?

[@jurget]

thanks Tim, you saved me from wasting my money, I bought prophet 6 + seq pro 3 instead of one

[@stevemodana_official]

In general the osc compensation just needs a working phase reset switch in the osc section, so that all osc reset properly. Then there would be the constant tone you are trying to achieve here. I hope with the next update the Osc reset will work.

[@petervandewoestijne9371]

interesting video and good point made. Moog will take the challenge i think , i hope. For the time being a lot to explore with this instrument. Thanks for this video.Having a Moog 1 is a challenge.

[@angusrokstad4052]

Tnx for a great video. Just bougth one. Hope the issues get fixed before i get it.

[@synthseeker]

I fought with the tuning issues for a year, but sold mine about a month after the osc-comp firmware came out. I just couldn't keep it in tune in the lower registers, two voices were intermittently 10-30 cents off, and the osc-comp made it sound dead to me. Classic analog sound, yes, but I'm kind of picky about being at least close to being in tune. It's a fantastic synth and I wanted to love it (especially at the price point) but honestly, it was too painful for me to keep.

[@IanAlderige]

I had issues with tuning too, turns out I just needed to let the synth warm up for about 10 to 15 minutes after turning it on. Full calibration now only takes about 30 minutes after the latest patch. I hope you can make another update video covering the last update, hopefully it solved some of the bugs you've found.

[@klstay]

I am among those who would like to see another test and update to this specific issue with 1.5 firmware. As a "core" do-it-all synth if not cost constrained I understand the attraction to this, but if I had spent for it and this is still not largely/completely fixed I would be a furious former Moog customer. (Plus in a studio setting I personally do not see the attraction to owning any do-it-all design)

[@derekholland3328]

very informative video as usual..cheers.

[@Pepijn_a.k.a._Akikaze]

Before oscillator calibration and compensation were implemented I wrote to Moog about my tuning problems in the lower register. I mentioned the Alesis Andromeda having a useful tuning function and background tuning. Moog replied saying things are more complex in the Moog One. I do not have the knowledge to argue with that. Surely there are 16 more oscillators in the Moog One. Well, after watching your previous ear opening video about this issue I turned oscillator compensation off. After I had calibrated the oscillators my tuning problems were over or at least inaudible. It has been ages since the last firmware update so my guess is Moog are working on a giant leap forward. Or is this wishful thinking...?

[@station2station544]

Tim - Love to hear a followup video with Firmware 1.5!

[@stevenDtheFirst]

Isn't this the nature of analog synths? My Moog Matriarch has similar behaviour. It's basically impossible to have them exact in tune. I can get pretty close but not exact, so eventually if I hold a key down there will be phase cancellation. Is the problem with Moog One that the closest you can get to the oscillators being in perfect sync, is way more off than with other multi oscillator synths?

[@aeon136]

JEEZUS FUCK! I learned this about Analog Synths back in '85 w/ my Sequential Circuits Six-Trak! It has 6 Oscillators (hence the name) & a simple Rec+6 tuned 'em up in no time! If I had 2 play MORE than a couple hours -I'd just hit the auto-tune between songs & I'd be fine! THAT'S the nature of Analog Oscillators -They drift in-&-out of phase & tune w/ some very rare Phase Cancellation. IF that's such a BIG issue for ya' -stick w/ Digital Synths!🙄

[@brettwayne8103]

great sounding synth. Why can't we open it up and dial some pots for coarse tuning?

[@Phil-1]

Do we know what the underlying cause is of the tuning issues? Hardware or firmware? If it's hardware then I guess we're going to have to wait for the Moog Two.

[@FilipMilerX]

I don't understand why you would want to have two oscillators playing exactly the same frequency, waveform and phase, but if so, you can turn keyboard synchronisation (reset) on, and it's the correct solution, not any hack at all. you can detune the oscillators manualy in any time

[@TimShoebridge]

They don't have to be the same waveform, you'll get adverse results combining different waveforms. I mention keyboard sync as a solution in the video (it's a setting on each oscillator).

[@theinterruptor]

Is there a musically rewarding use of operating two oscillators at identical frequencies? As you explain, it’s to be expected that they cancel each other out periodically. Therefore detune them by a few cents to get classic detuned leads or pads. Additionally you can add a detuned third osc to even out the sound. For a static sound just use a single oscillator or engage oscillator sync to combine two oscs for complex waveforms. The oscillator compensation feature seems to be designed for those synths where user calibration is not fixing the tuning issues. It seems to me that you are trying to fix a non-issue on your already nicely tuned Moog One.

[@TimShoebridge]

This is an interesting point and one I should have gone into in more depth in the video. Thanks for raising it. The waveforms don't need to be the same. Sine, triangle and square all go through zero at the same points in their cycle and all hit max and min at the same points. You'll get this issue mixing waveforms, enough phase cancellation to sound very noticeable from one not to the next. It's not a non-issue by any means unfortunately. I've been holding back on doing this video but a lack of firmware updates pushed me into action. I discovered the issue making what I'd consider to be musical patches, I wasn't going out of my way to find fault.

[@theinterruptor]

@@TimShoebridge Don‘t get me wrong. I can hear that the oscillator compensation makes the synth sound unpleasant in the setting you demonstrate. I just struggle to understand what the merit would be of tuning two oscillators that close together. You mention, that you would like to mix two different waveforms like that and have them behave more stable, with no beating. It seems to me that beating in this setting is inevitable on any real analog synth. (Hence I mentioned the usual cures for fixing it: osc sync, third oscillator, key-on sync) I have a somewhat similar situation with my ob-6 which shows unpredictable behaviour on one of the six voices when the sub-osc and oscillator-sync are engaged simultaneously. Given the high price of the synth I have a hard time accepting that Sequential support just calls this normal behaviour and basically tells me to bugger off. It really overshadowed my initial enthusiasm for the synth since I expected a perfect instrument. There are very few situations where the flaw actually matters, however.

[@mosspa1]

@@theinterruptor Why would Sequential support comment on an Oberheim product? Also, there's a hell of a fifference between a synth that costs $2500 and one that costs nearly $9k!

[@theinterruptor]

@@mosspa1 OB-6 is a product made by Sequential in collaboration with Tom Oberheim. It is manufactured and supported by Sequential.

[@marzzz1]

Excellent video- it really codifies for me all of the reasons I have held off (for three years now) buying a Moog One, and trust me I really wanted to get one. I just find it unconscionable on the part of Moog to allow more than a year to go by without even mentioning, let alone addressing the problems. A synth approaching $10,000/£7400 in price should not have this many issues. or allow so much time to pass without a firmware update.

[@PORRFNK]

No it's not implemented in the way a DCO would do it. it's not timed. it's a calibration table and a way to try to keep the oscillators within a certain freq. With some error. DCO's are timed and clocked perfectly

[@supercompooper]

I haven't installed oscillator compensation / tuning yet. Mine is mostly in-tune but has some bugs. My screen 'freezes' (the whole synth does) after being on for about a month. It is really odd with some weird bugs. Oh well. They'll eventually fix it hopefully. It is pretty nice. I'm waiting for the CV to be delivered.

[@supercompooper]

I had a problem with this display which I did tell Moog, but they dropped the ball on responding. When I followed up again, it was 'out of warranty' (ugh) so now I have to pay for the repair. I felt their support was wanting. I own a lot of Moog so it was sad. It was of course Covid, but if you make a ticket in your ticketing system and just drop it, I'd say the problem was logged at that time. Covid or not, I shouldn't be punished for getting a fix under warranty because I did nothing wrong.

[@VintageSynthesizerSolutions]

It's quite sad that the Memorymoog ended up being more reliable than the Moog One.

[@iaamusic1121]

Tim, thoughtful and balanced. My Moog One has been relatively ok tuning wise, I don’t use oscillator compensation for the reasons you’ve set out. I too think Moog need to get to a stable and mature firmware release, 1.4 is not it. They have advised that a couple of updates are in the pipeline and hopefully we may see an interim to v2 before Christmas- but who knows......I do enjoy playing the one, but yes it’s flawed at this point, but then most of the true classics had there issues. It’s the Comms from Moog that frustrate, nothing for an age despite such great promise.

[@bvanbeekum]

"… there is an issue out there with tuning" I'm most likely misunderstanding something, so would love if you could explain. Another comment on this video mentioned that there is an oscillator calibration function. From my naive point of view, it sounds like that would solve this "tuning issue", but as I said, I'm probably missing something.

[@TimShoebridge]

We're not allowed to run that calibration unless Moog tell us we can. That's the current situation. So yeah, there's a tuning issue out there.

[@GOSHacid]

@@TimShoebridge have you asked Moog though? I don’t mean that in a negative way. I’m a Moog One owner and love it (I keep OSC compensation off because mine is in tune just fine after the 1.40 calibration). I’ve seen the longer Moog sanctioned calibration routine info and wonder how many people have actually even asked Moog to do it. If I had tuning issues I would

[@peterldelong]

I don't know, but I get that same phase cancellation on my Prophet 10, in init with the same setup. Adjusting the Beat Freq on the Moog One oscillator two can make it better or worse with a hairs movement on the control. I can make the phase movement really slow. This is with Oscillator Compensation off on the Moog One. When I turn on Oscillator Compensation, that phase shifting seems a little worse and I can't tweak it out with Beat Freq. I did these tests after the One was warmed up for about three hours and after I ran the calibration in Utilities. I don't know what type of adjustments could be made at the hardware level as I'm not opening up the One until it's warranty expires. I would assume there's bunches of trim pots on the oscillator boards for calibration with test equipment?? I bought my Moog One from Vintage King back in February 2021 and it was a demo unit. I've played the crap out of this thing since it arrived and I've not come across any of the other bugs yet you've pointed out (like the note sticking in mono mode in this video). Thanks for all the hard work you put into this channel.....love it!

[@ByronHadley1]

"I don't know what type of adjustments could be made at the hardware level as I'm not opening up the One until it's warranty expires"... I can answer that for you right now - None. All adjustments are made digitally via a network of very complex microprocessors and digital to analog convertors. There are no adjustment pots anywhere in the unit that I have seen except what's on the front panel (I just recently opened up my Moog One to look into how to quiet its loud fans and try to come up with a better way to get the absurd amounts of heat this thing generates under control). Here is a great place to see what's in the Moog One so you dont have to open yours up: www.ryanzachry.com/2020/05/01/moog-one-inside.html Good luck to you (and others) with your Moog One. I can tell you that my experience with it has not at all been a pleasant journey.

[@mosspa1]

You get phase cancellation with any analog synth, and many times it is a wanted phenomenon. I often purosfully detune the oscillators on my P6 for just that reason, and it is mainly what the "Slop" knob still does. What Tim has pointed out isn't a problem with phase cancellation among oscillator pairs, per se, but a horrible artifact that was induced by correcting for severe oscillator tuning problems experienced by a lot of early adopters. In my opinion, in this case, the fix is probably worse than the original "problem" was.

[@FakeGlasses]

I have never owned the Moog one, though I’ve played it a few times and a producer friend of mine had one (and returned his and went back to his prophet 6 as a flagship). I am surprised this unit continues to have so many issues, now two (?) years after its release. I too root for it to be fixed, because I want the market for flagship full featured poly synths to remain robust.

[@HeathcliffBlair]

Thanks for the video. I'm VERY late to this party, but why not just play with the oscillators set to different waveforms and/or different pitch values? I don't quite see the point in having two or more oscillators set to EXACTLY the same values to begin with. It wouldn't give you extra fatness or sonic dimension. Instead, you'll just get an extremely boring sound with phase issues to boot. Am I missing something? I'm rather more interested in the bugs Tim found. I'd like to know more. Cheers. 🙂

[@TimShoebridge]

The sounds we like to make and hear, especially from a synth, are a very personal thing. Thankfully we are not all made the same. Subtly detuning two oscillators is the most common way of adding subtle weight and warmth to a synth patch. The one phrase you use I believe incorrectly is "exactly the same"..... subtle detune creating slow phasing effects requires by definition that the oscillators are not tuned exactly the same. However the Moog One's realtime pitch adjustment algorithm does indeed make the oscillator frequencies EXACTLY the same, and the resultant sound is indeed boring in my personal opinion.

[@HeathcliffBlair]

@@TimShoebridge Thanks Tim. I think the problem may be that the oscillators are not detuned enough to do more than weave unpleasantly in and out of cancellation. I think you might achieve a more pleasant and musical sound If they could be allowed to beat against each other a tad more. That should also cure the obvious cancellation problems...maybe. Indeed, there are many ways to work around the "issues" that almost all instruments have whether acoustic or electronic (are they issues or characteristics?). Solving/working with them becomes part of the creative interaction, well at least for me in my fumbling way. 🙂 Yes, the Moog's adjustment algo seems a bit clinical and odd. It appears to be doing in principle what the old Roland DCOs did on synths like the Juno - ie. analogue oscillators kept stable with digital calibration (somehow!). Works fine on a Juno (I have one) and sounds quite natural. Maybe Moog simply haven't cracked it yet. Cheers.

[@aeon136]

Personally, I agree w/ Heathcliff, in that WHY would you want to oscillators tuned the same in the 1st place? I learned back in '85 when I bought my 1st Analog Synth: a Sequential Circuits Six-Trak. Immediately after turning it on I'd auto-tune the 6 Oscillators. If I noticed the Phase shifting too MUCH during play, in between song, I'd auto-tune it again. Oscillator Drift is just 'The Nature Of The Beast' when it comes to Analog Synthesis! I think everybody's missing the point HERE: They ALL want the FATNESS of ANALOG -w/o having to pay the inevitable price for that FATNESS. IMHO, if Analog Oscillator Drift bugs you THAT much, accept the lack of ANALOG FATNESS -& play ONLY Digital Synths! It's ALL Quixotic IMHO!🙄

[@ssssssssssss885]

If it does the osc comp in real time, not only using lookup, it has to also employ a PID control loop. Most likely it is a software one, so you should hear steps. Still, very advanced design of the circuitry from Moog to be able to do that per firmware update. Analog VCOs are inherently unstable. Add a quartz heart and these are not really analog anymore.

[@paulmolive1821]

I sold my Moog One last year and miss it sometimes. Unfortunately, the weird little tuning and firmware issues just make it hard to love.

[@MikkelGrumBovin]

and to sell,-

[@lesnorton7384]

I really like the depth you go into on your videos, they provide insights you don't get otherwise. I also really like the bits of music you create in your demos, but have searched KZbin and can only find a few performances or complete compositions by you? This compensation issue is something I didn't know about and is another issue that concerns me. (See short tale below) I got a Moog One for Christmas in 2020 (I know a great Christmas gift right). When I it came there was a hole in the side of the box and the shipper laid it against a tree at the end of my driveway in the rain. I knew it was coming and had been watching for it, so I ran out and grabbed it before it got too wet. When I opened it everything seemed fine inside, it was dry and the inner box was only dented, but when I began playing it, some of the notes would stick on and it was out of tune. I talked with support at the store and we decided I should return it and they sent me a new one. When the new one came the shipping box was in much better shape but still had a small rip in it. When I took it out it seemed fine at first but then notes began to stick on. This time I went directly to Moog Support. I worked with them for over a month until they told they couldn't or wouldn't fix it. So the store was kind enough to take it back. While I had it, I played on it for many hours and really fell in love with the sounds I was able to create. In the end I had only recorded one track with it. For almost a year now I have thought about the Moog One and have been thinking about getting another one, but I really don't think I can deal with the "stuck note" problem. I have searching the internet and don't see anyone talking about this problem, so I was wondering if it was fixed or if you or any of your followers have had a similar problem with stuck notes or did I just get the only 2 with that problem? If that is still a problem, I think I need to move on. I already own a Matriarch and a Subsequent 37 and really like them. But I really want a great Analog Poly. This is currently my short list for other options (Not really sure what else I should look at): 1. Sequential OB6 keyboard plus OB6 module ( I really liked your video chaining video) 2. Prophet 10 3. Deckard's Dream - Need to do more research on this one I looked at the Arturia Poly Brute. I think it sounds great but every Arturia I have owned began to have problems after a few months. My main studio keyboard, a Keylab 88, is starting have problems with velocity and aftertouch.

[@TimShoebridge]

Hi Les, Very glad to hear you like the videos. I have intermittent stuck notes with my One, see an example at 09:02. Others in the comments have said they have similar issues. There is no fix as far as I know, I'm running latest firmware in the video and there hasn't been a firmware update in a very long time. I was unofficially told to expect a firmware announcement before the end of the year (ie. 2021) but we've passed that milestone. Fingers crossed there'll be some news from Moog on a new firmware update soon. To be honest, if I were in your shoes, I'd want to see some progress with bug fixes before committing to such a significant purchase. But that's just my own personal view after all this time.

[@lesnorton7384]

@@TimShoebridge I so like the Moog One but I think I am probably going to find something else. It's funny I had to stop this video a little while ago and right where I restarted it is where you get the stuck note. Very strange. You did 2 videos that are pulling me in 2 different directions. 1. The Moog Voyager, a synth I have been considering for a long time. However, it is mono and I do have a Subsequent 37 and a Matriarch so I am leaning the other direction. (It is still high 2. You did a video on the poly-chaining an OB6, and this may be the game changer for me. I like the OB-6 but 6 voices just never seemed like enough, but 12 voice, that changes everything for me. I have a Prophet 08 and I am always coming up short on that and it has 8 voices ( I know you can poly-chain this synth as well, which I might do in the future). There were so many great sounds on the OB-6 video so thanks.

[@supercompooper]

My Schmidt doesn't have any bugs I'm aware of. It has a few unimplemented features (some buttons marked 'special' that don't seem to do anything) but that's about it. I really hope the Moog Voyager is not the albatross that the Alesis Andromeda was and hurts the company more than it helps. If I were them I'd just make a grid of the outstanding bugs, and just show how they tackle them from time to time (i.e. every 2-3 months, not every 6-12 months).

[@marzzz1]

I would venture that it was not the Andromeda that killed off Alesis (they did manufacture it for ten years), but their reliance on other technologies that became obsolete. The Andromeda was a fantastic synth with its own flaws, but it certainly did not have these huge issues that the Moog One had. I sold my A6 for absolutely ludicrous money when it was discontinued, to this day still have some seller's remorse....

[@mamojula]

Great and interesting video, thanx for sharing! Wonder what does MOOG says about this, I assume they will take care of this issue somehow since it´s not a hundred dollar synth....

[@DrFearCo]

Genuine question here. Isn’t the whole oscillator tuning issue an inherent problem with having analog VCOs? Is there a world where you can maintain perfect tuning between dozens of analog oscillators?

[@aeon136]

No -THAT'S 'The Nature Of The Beast'! I accepted THAT back in '85 when I bought my 1st Analog board: a Sequential Circuits Six-Trak. Before playing I'd have to tune-up ALL 6 Oscillators w/a press of 2 buttons: rec+6 -it took less than 5sec to tune-up ALL of 'em. If anybody has a problem w/ Analog Oscillator Drift & VERY occasional Phase Cancellation, stick to Digital Synths -& forget about that FAT ANALOG sound! Everybody needs to quit their cryin' & drink a beer! SHEESH! 🙄

[@aeon136]

Tryin'-2 control Analog Oscillator Drift is not ONLY counter to the whole point of Analog Synthesis -It's downright 'Quixotic'!🙄

[@stevemodana_official]

That hanging note can be reset by pressing oct up&down simultaneously Tim

[@TimShoebridge]

Thanks for that info. Much appreciated 👍

[@mosspa1]

Although I'm sure it works, you do realize how silly a suggestion that would be for a live playing situation, don't you?

[@elementlab41]

Fantastic video, Tim. Absolutely unforgivable the lack of communication from Moog to even acknowledge bugs or future firmware updates. Totally understand if they have been affected by the pandemic, but at least tell your customers, "hey, we hear you." The silence actually gives me concerns about the company's future. Unrelated, but they are subject to two lawsuits at the moment. Maybe Bob was right: problems only multiply as you add polyphony. He watched it bring down almost everyone around him.

[@EverettDudgeon138]

It’s Tom Oberhiem all over again. People placing orders for items on his site and he forgot to tell the distributor and customers they were out of production for over two years.

[@elementlab41]

@@EverettDudgeon138 Totally. Analog polyphony seems like a herculean task. Sequential seems to be one of the few to have it down to a science at this point.

[@ByronHadley1]

I agree with your comment wholeheartedly. Moog's response(s) (or lack thereof, I should say) very much reminds me of a business that is very close to going insolvent. As far as the polyphony thing goes, though, nobody but Moog seems to have any issues with polyphony. Dave Smith was knocking the polyphony ball out of the park all the way back in the late 1970's, and Behringer's first poly synth (the Deepmind 12) still amazes me every time I turn it on. I suspect Moog will fall victim to their own foolish pride on this issue as they obviously don't want anyone else to help them fix this overwhelming monster they have created. It looked great on paper but......

[@EverettDudgeon138]

@@ByronHadley1 The issue with the Moog One is they overthought it and over complicated it when they didn’t need to. Nobody was asking for 100,000 mod slots or memory slots. Multiple filters, three engines, Eventide effects. It was overkill and now they can’t even keep the damn thing in tune ffs. All people just wanted was Moog to make a poly synth and the sad thing is Dave Smith totally could have helped and collaborated with them to make something simple and stable.

[@ByronHadley1]

@@EverettDudgeon138 Exactly. All they actually needed to do was recreate the Memorymoog with modern components, fix it's design flaws and former engineering short comings and add a few modern features and they (like Dave Smith and the Prophet-5/10) would have had a runaway smash hit on their hands. If they wanted a "supercomputer" for it as they created standard on the Moog One then they could have made that an add-on OPTION for those that wanted such a thing that could be plugged into a port on the back of the instrument. I darned near would have sold both kidneys to get my hands on such an instrument. It certainly doesn't help things either that the One was grossly misrepresented in the videos that they released just after product launch.

[@myNoiseDotNet]

Great investigation and reverse-engineering. Now, the problem can be circumvented. Don't use two oscillators, but a single one when you want to achieve that perfect full body sound. Two perfectly tuned/in-phase oscillator would sound exactly the same anyway (just a tad louder). If you want to achieve that lovely phasing effect, even with oscillator-copensation enabled, just slightly detune one oscillator compared to the other. Right? (Edit: I now see another viewer raised the same comment, and has been answered)

[@donniespackman3182]

late to this video, but curious if you ever tried a full calibration via the hidden menu? takes about 4 hours and completely solved my tuning issues. I now happily use my moog one without oscillator compensation on and it has restored my faith in the instrument as I had a few oscillators that were VERY out of tune, sometimes more than a halfstep in the lower range.

[@whatlooksrightisright]

Can you please be more specific about it? Any sheets, links and the like? Thank you!

[@donniespackman3182]

**TO RUN A VOICE CARD CALIBRATION:** ***NOTE:*** *Allocate at least four hours for the duration of this procedure. (The instrument may be left alone once the calibration routine has started.)* 1. Allow the Moog One to warm up for at least 45 minutes. 2. Connect the two 1/4" audio cables (TS or TRS) from the SUB R to LINE IN and SUB L to MIC/LINE IN (TRIM potentiometer position does not matter). 3. Press SHIFT+SETTINGS+POLYPHONY MORE button to reveal CALIBRATION menu item in SETTINGS. 4. Navigate to SETTINGS > CALIBRATION > VOICE CARD CALIBRATION. 5. Select RUN CALIBRATION and make sure VOICES = ALL, TUNING = ON, CALIBRATIONS = 18/18. 6. Select START and press the encoder. 7. On the “START VOICE CARD CALIBRATION” screen, a confirmation dialog will appear. Press RUN to confirm that you want to run the calibration. 8. Once the calibration has completed, power-cycle your instrument

[@whatlooksrightisright]

@@donniespackman3182 Thank you so much!

[@donniespackman3182]

@@whatlooksrightisright no problem, let me know if it works for you! I had great results

[@kierenmoore3236]

Hi Tim! Rewatching many of your videos, amidst all the new Moog Super Bowl Synth chatter … Just wondering - do you still own the Moog One and/or the Voyager? And do you still have your Matriarch? 🙂 Are you excited about this new Moog synth that’s appeared on the horizon, or not-so-much? Remember - just keep swimming!! Cheers! K

[@TimShoebridge]

Hi. I still own the Matriarch and the Voyager. In fact I ended up with two voyagers. The One I sold. If I had better finances and more room I would have kept it, but for me personally it never became the centre of my studio, I didn't use it enough, so it made sense to move on. Yes very excited about this next Moog polysynth, most people don't need the power that the One provides, so maybe this new synth will be a better choice both functionally and financially. And if they can capture some of the immediacy and gorgeous tone of a Matriarch then it will be irresistible for sure!

[@spongebobsizzles]

@@TimShoebridge First off, I really appreciate your perspective and how you respond to questions Tim. Everyone's situation is different; from what they have in their studio, their financial situation, and how they use their instruments. I'm wondering if you had installed the 1.5 firmware for the Moog One update at some point after this video was made and if that solved any of the issues with your instrument? Also, glad that you're happy with your Alesis Andromeda A6 from your recent video, and wondering if that's what really pushed the Moog One out of the door for your workflow since you already have other Moogs in the studio that can get that Moog "sound"?

[@TimShoebridge]

@upperwest8058 I sold the Moog One long before I contemplated an A6. The phase cancellation phenomenon I describe in this video is a consequence of freezing the tuning of the oscillators, it's not a bug as such, it's a consequence. Freezing the tuning of VCO's is something I would never personally want to do, if you want that kind of precision then buy a synth with digital oscillators or else DCO's. VCO's should feel alive imho. I think the last firmware release was a great update, but there is still room for improvement. But coming back to the A6, it's development was ended too soon, there are bugs, quirks and issues that would benefit from both firmware updates and hardware revisions. It's interesting that both Moog and Alesis are owned by InMusic now.

[@spongebobsizzles]

Yes, I thought about Moog and Alesis being under the same umbrella now as well. Wondering if the new Moog synth will profit from that relationship or others in the future? My Moog One built 5/16/22 and arrived a few weeks ago has been stable for tuning with Oscillator Compensation off, not buggy, and without key creaking and the like. The only issue I've had so far is C6 being a little flat across all voices and oscillators no matter what I do, ie. calibration. have any ideas? I still have 2 weeks to decide to keep the Moog One or return it. It's a tough call, especially with software synths available which are ultimately tweak-able. I've had a Model D reissue, a Slim Phatty, and a Voyager XL, which I've all moved on from, as I realized that I really wanted a poly instrument and a LAMM MemoryMoog is out for me. I also, like you, have a Behringer model D and it's close enough. My main concern moving forward aside from firmware updates, is if the hardware will be stable in the long haul, or if issues will appear there as well like the C6 note issue above. As you mentioned with the A6, no advanced analog instrument is perfect, but that is the idea after all... @@TimShoebridge

[@jedgould5531]

CORRECT. Absolutely a great synth. It is simply not finished. More Moog One troubles than oscillator compensation. Cannot modulate pulse width, wave angle or mix -- on each oscillator. Has anyone figured a way to let the sequencer modulate the filters?

[@audiohub3961]

You do this through the modulation matrix. This all works fine.

[@mikelazarev5833]

I don't know, Tim... In one of the videos, you talk about how extremely precise these modern instruments are, and how they could benefit from a complex matrix configuration to add a just little bit of non-determinism and randomness to timing and pitch. Then, in this one, you talk about how the oscillators are out of tune and how this newly released software implementation with locked compensation creates a permanent phase cancellation. I agree with the technical things you point out, as well as some of the ideas here, that perhaps a phase reset can be implemented in the next firmware update [is that not the same as turning on "NOTE-ON RESET" on each VCO?]. I also agree that the tuning of the oscillators could be just a tad bit better. But you said so yourself - there are 48 of them, and because it's analog, it's pretty difficult to get them to line up. Out of curiosity, how do the older all-analog monophonic multi-oscillator synths deal with this? I think you said, that you can manually precision-tune them, so that reduces this frustration? And yes, I agree that, in general, all bugs should be addressed - and I suspect they will be [with an introduction of new ones]. In a nutshell, if I really distill your point here, I think you're just unhappy that the compensation algorithm introduces this other newly discovered issue. But really, I think you're pointing out that the 48 oscillators could be more precisely tuned and phase reset so that they wouldn't even need this algorithm in the first place. This is what most people complain about, and I've seen some threads discussing a somewhat lengthy but fruitful [hidden?] oscillator calibration. But then I'd like to return to the very beginning of my comment - would you want them to be that precise? [p.s. Love the video, appreciate this being pointed out, and am giving this one thumbs-up as well!]

[@arunningjourney1460]

Do you have an update on the Moog one? Has the problems been sorted out with firmwares?

[@jeffevansmusic]

Have you test Voyager to see what it does in the same situation. I think you may find it is the same.

[@TimShoebridge]

Hi. The Voyager does not have any oscillator compensation or auto tune algorithms.

[@jeffevansmusic]

@@TimShoebridge No I get that but if you set up two triangle waves on Voyager and tune them to identical pitch and hold the note down, after quite a while the same thing happens. They eventually cancel out for a brief period. Are you saying thats normal. I guess I am never hearing this as I tend to detune them just enough for a fatter sound but then the cancellation does not taker place.

[@TimShoebridge]

@@jeffevansmusic Yes that's normal. The more out of tune they are then the briefer the time that the cancellation is audible for. Phase cancellation between 2 oscillators is one of the main reasons why 3 oscillator synths are desirable (that and the fact the 3rd oscillator can be used as an LFO).

[@aeon136]

EXACTLY! 💯

[@noisetheorem]

DSI synths start with very stable analog oscillators and let you choose to destabilize them. This shouldn’t be rocket science in 2021.

[@MichaelDowComposer]

true. screw moog

[@electronictiger]

DSI tends to use more DCOs and fully digital oscillators, rather than VCOs. AFAIK only the OB-6 and Prophet 6 are VCO (next to reissues of the Prophet 5 and 10). Obviously, those digital aspects makes them a lot easier to tune, stay in tune and track across the keyboard. Not to mention offer crazy modulation possibilities. Now their modern VCOs may or may not be more stable than Moog's. But they will undoubtedly run into tuning stability and tracking issues as well. It is the nature of the beast when it comes to using voltage to control the pitch. Regardless, it seems that Moog has a number of issues to address with the One.

[@EverettDudgeon138]

@@electronictiger The thing is you can calibrate Sequential synths yourself very quickly and easily...Moog is expecting customers to ship their Moog One to North Carolina so they can calibrate them.

[@electronictiger]

@@EverettDudgeon138 I understand. And you're right, of course. A properly working tuning button should have been included on the Moog One from the start. It wasn't and apparently it isn't an easy software fix for them either. Otherwise they would probably have done so via a firmware update already. I'm not defending Moog. Think dropped the ball a couple of times with this synth that, like Tim said, keeps it from being legendary. Or in some unfortunate cases, keeping it from being usable. And that is inexcusable.

[@GOSHacid]

@@EverettDudgeon138 no, there is a calibration routine that they can have you do remotely they just don’t publicise it.

[@atuanoiniin]

Great video once again. What a bummer though..

[@nectariosm]

Maybe Behringer's 16 voice poly with a ladder VCF, won't have the issues and bugs that the Moog synth has (lol). Yes this is a tongue in cheek comment, but the Moog One just goes to show that you don't always get what you pay for. Nobody in their right mind takes an 8grand "gamble" for a modern synth with these issues, unless they're Moog fanboys...which is fair enough really. But having this issue unresolved 2+ years, is taking the piss really.

[@mosspa1]

I wish Uli would clone this, do it correctly, and charge about $2k for it, just to spite Moog!

[@ManCalledMif]

Hi TIm I'm a Moog One owner. Beautiful synth, but a firmware update would be very welcome. I would really appreciate having a 256 step sequencer or a song mode (or linked 64 step sequencer). Do you have any tips for getting round the 64 step limit? Thanks in advance. Adam

[@iansunderland117]

100% Tim, I totally love mine but am also frustrated with the lack of promised updates the talked so much about when they launched the keyboard.....isn't it the Moog Ones birthday today? I seem to think it was launched on 1st Oct

[@ChimeraGilbert]

9:01 I can actually see the moment your heart breaks

[@simonwehner]

Thanks for this helpful video Tim!!! Really thinking about investing in a M1 or a Prophet 10 this year (hard decision - deep sound design vs simplicity). Do you think about getting a P10 Rev4 in the future? :) And did you keep your Matriarch since you got the M1?

[@drewxxdrewxx1046]

the curse of the memorymoogs instability lives on ! I aint going near this synth. Anyone in LA fix Memorymoogs?

[@fa.lo.lab.9816]

Like 10 my Friend!! 👍👏🎶🎵 Fabry DJ 🔥

[@safestackin]

Thank you sir further moog owner....

[@braisnovoaloira4770]

Great video! Thanks!. It makes so much easier tu understand how OSC compensation works (and why I normally leave it turned off). My question is, What do you think about OSC calibration? I made calibration two times and the results where find. Is quite better in tuning but keeping that slightly and natural out of tune. What do you think about Moog’s OSC Calibration? It is good or bad (specially compared with other synths like prophet 10, for example)? Thanks!!! (and congrats for your videos). Best regards.

[@cymonalex]

Interesting video Tim… Wonder why they didn’t just do what Sequential do and add a oscillator ‘sync’ button.. or is this a similar thing? I must admit, my Moog one is kind of collecting dust at the moment because of all the bugs I keep finding.. I’m sure the guys at Moog will give us future updates, but will that day come where we can call it “fixed’’…. I’m very sceptical..

[@mosspa1]

Personally, I'm starting to conclude that Moog's days are numbered. Good Luck!

[@ethiccash]

Great analysis Tim, do you know if anything happening since you published this video? Did the firmware 1.5 fix things?

[@stevehunt2125]

Has this improved with 1.5?

[@lashtal]

Due to how reliant the OSC's are to programming, are they technically DCO, as opposed to VCO?

[@TimShoebridge]

Every single cycle of a DCO is being set by a digital clock. The Moog One oscillators are most definitely VCO's but I have no idea exactly how frequently the voltage is being adjusted when oscillator compensation is turned on. I guess only the Moog designers can tell you. But the end result is oscillators that never drift, that you can detune precisely by a fraction of a cent. At least with the One we have a choice, compensation on or off. Personally I'd like to see it part of the settings saved with each preset as opposed to a global setting. I have patches that sound best with compensation off while others need it to be on... 😏

[@justinupchurch1773]

I really want the ONE, but what I'd rather have more than any other poly synth, is half of a Moog One.. I just want a polyphonic Matriarch. I's that too much to ask for?!

[@e-conrecords4665]

A synths reliability should be equal (at the very least) to its asking price. It’s a beautiful piece of kit when it works but I’m not willing to gamble that much money on a potential lemon.

[@supercompooper]

Ha! a supercar will be in the shop lots and still cost a lot of money to maintain. I think the Moog One is sort of in that category unfortunately. I actually agree with you in one sense but there are other examples like supercars that are expensive but also unreliable.

[@e-conrecords4665]

@@supercompooper your analogy is colourful but you’re comparing apples to oranges mate. You should be able to expect a certain level of reliability with a premium synth like this… as most people would agree. Especially while new. There aren’t parts under extreme duress in a Moog One like there are in a supercar.