Moose Hunting with the .22 ARC

[@jimothy-johnson]

There seem to be a lot of people in the comments who don't understand how bullets work and are VERY mad at you.

[@tylerfreel85]

@@jimothy-johnson lots of feelings!

[@Velshard]

Yeah, did you know moose are like Jelly fish and don't have any BONES, crazy.

[@jimothy-johnson]

@@Velshard Thank you for demonstrating the first part of what I said for me.

[@tylerfreel85]

@@Velshard you mist have missed the part where 2 shots directly hit bone.

[@tydahguy9009]

@@Velshard the bullet went through a rib what other bones past that is gonna prevent the bullet from punching the lungs?

[@loganvictor3494]

Absolutely love this video, clicked on it after seeing the cover and was extremely curious. Love the honesty and have huge respect for how open you were in this process and the amount of research you did shows you were going in as prepared as you could be! Keep up the good work!

[@joelsmith6050]

Nice video. I'm glad you are willing to take some criticism in order to give some objective evidence of performance on game. I recently used a .224 Valkyrie recently on a caribou with perfectly acceptable results.

[@chasebricker639]

You just earned a subscriber! Great video with actual objective data

[@radiofreejacksoncounty9317]

What’s so cool about this video is listening to Tundra Talk and hearing about it and then watching the video and seeing actual clips of it. Frank and Tyler’s interactions are great.

[@hunterkiller2062]

Sir thank you for this. I agree with you whole heartedly. I myself have had people tell me I am unethical because I use a bolt action 223 for Texas Deer. I have use a 50gr Barns TTSX up to a 80gr SMK. All worked fine! I don't use a stand or feeder, just sit 30 to 50 yards off an animal trail by a water source and wait. Most of my shots are 20 yards to 50 yards ( East Texas ). The BIGGEST thing is, I can SHOOT!! Most of the larger caliber guys can't and their hit probability is really low. I am a lungs only guy too, no shoulder or neck shots. Thank you for this. A happy healthy life to you and yours.

[@fattigla]

I'm looking at 22 ARC as a really good coyote cartridge, and a good higher volume target cartridge, that can flex into a deer sized big game cartridge if needed. I'm looking at it for a kids rifle-closer ranges and minimal recoil.

[@rubenrodriguez7266]

Lots of people up in arms about the ethics of using the 22 ARC, but if you posted the same kill and said it was a 30-06, nobody would bat an eye. Clearly this was plenty of penetration and plenty of wound channel for the job. Very similar wound channel to what a traditional mono would do from a medium cartridge. Nobody can look at the actual damage done by the bullet and say that it wasn’t enough. But for some reason, bullet diameter and headstamp on the brass make people emotional. Results aren’t enough; I need my feelings validated.

[@bc5cd]

I understand where you are coming from on this, however there are real considerations when it comes to bullet weights and construction. Legitimate concerns do exist with using a lightweight bullet on thick skinned and big boned game: shooting under field conditions can lead to shooting errors, and shoulder hit with a proper 30-06 game bullet can still be a killing shot, whereas a 22 calibre bullet, your shooting tolerances are lessened tremendously. In other words your margin for error is far, far less with a 22 cal bullet weight. The other legitimate concern is the Ballistics-Coefficient range ninja who thinks the "high BC bullet" means 800 yard shots on game animals are acceptable. Don't kid yourself, there are people out there who would shoot this round at the range then graduate into a hunting scenario and make stupid long range shots on game.

[@tylerfreel85]

@@bc5cdlighter bullets do have some potential disadvantages, but based on what happened here and reports from other folks who have been shooting stuff with this particular bullet, a shoulder isn’t going to be a big problem, especially on deer-sized animals. Does it have a smaller margin of error? Sure, a bit… which is why it was carefully considered according to the situation it would be used in. As you can see in these comments, people gravitate to caliber as the primary consideration for what’s ok and what isn’t, what works and what doesnt, and ignore everything else. reality is messier. People are definitely out there making bad decisions every day regardless of what caliber they use, because it’s a lot of those decisions and considerations that are way more important than caliber. Cartridge or caliber is easy to get sucked into because we can just buy it. Lots of people genuinely think that they can just buy this caliber or that and it will absolve them of their responsibility to make a good decision on the shots they take or work hard to improve their shooting

[@rubenrodriguez7266]

@@bc5cd in the last decade, the ELDM in every caliber has more documented kills on game than the plague, but some people refuse to accept that it’s effective. I think hunters should shoot the biggest rifle that they are willing to train with for several hundred rounds a year and can see their own impacts from field positions. For some people that means 7 Mag, for others maybe the 308 or 6.5’s or the 6 Creed. The 22 ARC may not be ideal, but it shows how little that matters with reasonable shots. Bottom line, people need to shoot more and own the whole process. If someone will shoot 500-1k rounds in practice, they are way ahead of the guy that shoots 20-40 rounds through his 300 Magnum and then goes hunting with it.

[@bc5cd]

@@rubenrodriguez7266 500 to 1000 rounds of practice shooting per year is unreasonable for the average shooter from a cost perspective (as well as available time). Perhaps you have a trust fund or just have done well career wise, but most people cannot afford that volume of centre fire rifle shooting. 20-40 practice shots is actually alot. If someone hunts properly they should not need 500 rounds of practice of centrefire rifle-if the target is 600 yards away, HUNT IT, by closing the distance.

[@rubenrodriguez7266]

@@bc5cd Option C: None of the above. I’m just fiscally irresponsible and spend way too much of my income on shooting. The fact that you consider 40 rounds of practice to be a lot is exactly what’s wrong with so many rifle hunters. No proficient archery hunter in the world would consider themselves ready to hunt if they only shot 40 rounds a year in practice. That would be blatantly unethical, yet rifle shooters think they are somehow ready to shoot at game when you’re functionally a complete novice with your equipment. If you can’t afford the time or budget to put a few hundred rounds through a rifle, please keep your shots inside 100 yards and shoot the biggest gun you can get yours hands on, I guess.

[@jeffpracht3534]

I just skimmed through your article online about your 2 builds and have seen your post on the 22 arc FB group about this hunt. I had no idea you were the same person and now I've found you on KZbin lol. Crazy. And I'm pretty much sold on building a 22 arc, largely because of your results here.

[@tylerfreel85]

Thanks! I think it’s a pretty damn cool cartridge.

[@it_is_what_it_is_brotha]

6mm arc is the ticket, it's settled ha. Great experiment and loved seeing the true results. Still got the job done no matter the hate being spewed in the comments.

[@tylerfreel85]

What do you like better about the 6 than the 22? I have both but liking the 22 better

[@it_is_what_it_is_brotha]

@@tylerfreel85 better do it all of that's what your looking for but if your more predator and medium game only 22 would be better. I like the 6 for anything up to elk but would stop at deer with the 22. So if I still loved out east the 22 would be it but bc I live in Utah for several years now the 6 is my more favorable choice.

[@tylerfreel85]

@@it_is_what_it_is_brothaI’d be interested to see wound cavity difference between something like an 80 or 88 .22 and a 103 6mm. Considering the lower velocity, I bet it wouldn’t be a significant difference. What’s appealing to me on the .22 is an 80 or 88 with better velocity, trajectory, and similar or potentially better wind drift. I think ultimately at reasonable hunting ranges, either would be just fine.

[@christopherbenfield7848]

Tyler good JOB!!! A great complete perspective

[@dk17hmr]

Did I miss what velocity you are pushing with the 88gr? Interesting data. My 22 creed likes that bullet.

[@tylerfreel85]

Out of that setup it’s at 2695 at the muzzle, was approximately 2450 at impact

[@bradpierce1211]

I would have to say depending on what state or province in canada the caliber would be illegal, Colorado has a minimum 6mm/243 for big game all depends on the game law

[@stephenferguson6363]

Here in bc we can use 22 center fires rifles they work great

[@corvinking4996]

This really comes across as as a Hornady marketing push

[@tylerfreel9760]

any other conspiracy theories?

[@onebadjack1313]

​@@tylerfreel9760the Hornady hate is real! I don't get it.

[@peady64]

I'm quickly becoming a fan of the ARC line of ammunition. I'm impressed with the ballistics out of an SBR. A dual use hunting- home defense rig type scenario. I'm also excited with the 338 ARC offering. That should raise some heads. Some readily available off-the-shelf ammo that rivals the 338 Spectre.

[@shawntyner1355]

Love the podcast. You guys put out great content and congrats on the successful moose camp this year.

[@tylerfreel85]

Thanks!!

[@robertshones364]

This is a great video. Growing up in a very firearms friendly family, there has always been a debate about ethical cartridges vs the game intended. The new cartridges coming out are really blurring that line.

[@tylerfreel85]

Much appreciated! I think that just as much as the cartridges, many of our newer bullets are elevating the performance as well.

[@NorthRiverGuide]

I'd have to say that people are the biggest factor in whether their use of a cartridge is ethical or not.

[@matthewklejeski6641]

You're more deadly with a small caliber cartridge that you shoot well, than with a big cartridge you don't shoot well

[@Intermtn9736]

The “small caliber/match bullet” revolution is well underway, and it’s gonna be contentious. Was largely started or at least codified by “Formidilosus” on Rokslide. Largely hope it does pan out, because if you’re being truly honest, even a 6.5 has a lot of recoil. 6 and 5.56 platforms are a true pleasure to shoot, and that shows up in accuracy.

[@Paul-q3m7k]

Anyone that hunts moose with this is a moron

[@peteivanthomas]

We were shooting things with small cartridges and match bullets long before Form was on the internet - the Rokslide kool-aid is just the latest loudest people to find that it works.

[@jonprice1623]

Pretty cool! Alaska natives kill about everything with 22-250s so why not. When the 220 swift first debuted, people killed all the big game species in north america with a 48 grain lead tip bullet. Cool video. Be cooler if it was a 22-250 😂

[@lurebenson7722]

I am sure you heard that lie 1000x at the local bar you hang out at. I have 30 years as a resident of Alaska and during that time all my income was from guiding fishermen and Hunters all over Alaska and in and out of native villages. The 22-250 lie is just that a made up lie by idiots who are gullible and take everything they hear as the honest truth. The other widely repeated lie is an old native woman kills brown bears with a snub noise 22LR revolver by walking up to the bears she grabs the bear by the ear and shoots the bear in the ear, yeah and fools like you would believe that then repeat it over and over. I haven't met an Alaskan native yet that doesn't hunt with less than a 300-win mag and many use one of the types of 375 magnums or 338s

[@tylerfreel85]

@@lurebenson7722you must not have met a lot of them, cause I know more than a few who hunt with .223s and .243s.

[@jonprice1623]

I know 2 that use a 22-250 personally and I've seen several shooting seals and bears in videos with what they say is a 22-250...wasn't an arguement...

[@lurebenson7722]

@@jonprice1623 So you viewed 2 videos of people shooting 22-250s for seals and bears then that to you makes everyone in Alaska using 22-250s to hunt all game in Alaska. You are the typical fool who thinks just because you see something in a video or heard from a friend that heard something about a Marine in a bar that claimed Brown bears in Alaska are hunted with only handguns you are just the gullible and ignorant of a fool to believe it. I can be sure you heard and believe the BS story about the Alaskan native women called Buck skin Mary that walks up to Alaskan Brown bears then grabs the bears by the ear and sticks a snub noise 22LR revolver in the bears ear and shoots the bear dead every time

[@lurebenson7722]

@@jonprice1623 You must also believe more KZbin nonsense like the liar ex con & child molester pedophile Chukes outdoor adventures when in his video claiming to shoot Brown bears at 1000 yards with a 10 mm handgun!

[@seancollins4439]

This is very cool to see. I have hunted moose alot and over the years having been going down in cartridge sizes. I started off moose hunting in northern b.c. with a .338 win mag. The locals where I hunt often use British .303 or 30-30 and have dropped world record moose with no issue. Seeing the damage and a breakdown of everything has answered all my personal theories. Thanks so much, please keep videos like this coming. This kinda proves we all dont need magnums to dispatch a animal at "traditional ranges".

[@johnganshow5536]

When I lived in Alaska, one reason I used powerful calibers is because no matter what you hunt, you're in Grizzly country...

[@damevid]

Came here to ask, if you've tested the 77gn LRX - if one of your 22ARC builds has a 1;7 twist? What kind of velocity deltas are you getting vs the 2 rigs you built? The 77gn LRX: it's listed as a .404 BC, which could be well under 6" drift in a 10mph wind at 300 yards.. how fast do u think that could reach, with what kind of powder? I choose to use copper for hunting, and I'd be very interested how far out you could shoot with the LRX to where the 2500 fps mark hits at impact with the 22ARC. Shout out to your Tundra Talk podcast and the story telling there; thank you for all the positive insights! And I'd be stoked to hear more content on your build ideas for a 22 ARC bolt action sheep setup, and to where a good barrel length lands, where max velocity starts to fade vs longer barrel.

[@tylerfreel85]

Hey thanks! And great question! I do have a few hundred 77gn LRX to test, but I haven’t got there yet. I’ll also try the new Hornady 70gn CX. I predict that those bullets will probably give better penetration, but a smaller overall wound channel. They should still work really well on smaller stuff. I’m also going to test the Lehigh defense 72 grain controlled chaos. That type of bullet seems to produce a dramatic wound cavity in other calibers. Hammer bullets has some similar-behaving options too. Both of my barrels are 7 twist as will the bolt action I’m getting spun up. I notice approximately 75fps difference between my 18 and 20 inch barrels and about 125 fps slower in a 20 than it should be in a 24”

[@rangetoolcompany]

We just built the most reliable 22 ARC on the AR15 platform. It's almost done field testing now.. but 6mm is already probably done. 22 ARC, new hybrid round out there. Our barrel MFG is a hornady partner and perfected the chamber and has a beautiful rifling. Reach out if you want to do a review on the 22 ARC

[@jacobzirkle9153]

So now 22 Creed or 22 arc for Varmint to Deer?

[@michaelcervantez3570]

I'm going 22 ARC for ease of going back and forth from my bolt guns to my AR-15s with only one caliber. all I gotta do is buy the upper for 22 ARC and its fits on the lowers I already have.

[@Craigfullthrottle]

What suppressor do you like for 22arc?

[@tylerfreel85]

I don’t really have a preference. I’ve used the speed K on it but any inconel cans are fairly heavy. In this video I’m using a DDC enticer STi 7.62mm, and have also used a KGM R30K with it. I think any 5.56 or 7.62mm can that you like will work just fine

[@jonarnett3018]

All the Nay sayers are people that don't understand ballistics and cant put a bullet in the right spot. Good video and glad you are confident in your shooting ability to make proper bullet placement.

[@jonathangagnon6261]

Great fresh perspective and new information to add to the community! I think your ways of comparing it to a bow and looking at that are very logical. I heard you on podcast (the big game hunting) talking about comparing the displacement in cubic inches of the 22 arc compared to the bow. I would really like to know how did those calculations to come up with those numbers. I personally think it would add a great metric to attempt to measure things in community. Like comparing different bullets and different cartridges. Night be able to give some nee information to help clear up older ways of thinking! I also think its great you mention the cartridge is not your first choice for moose but that it certainly can work.

[@tylerfreel85]

Thanks! I did a rough calculation of wound cavity volume for the arrow assuming a normal 1.25” broadhead and calculating the would as cylindrical (it’s actually smaller because it’s just a slit) with 18” of penetration. The rifle wound is variable in diameter and, since I haven’t done calculus in many years, I estimated it as a 2.5-inch cylinder with 16” of penetration. Wound varied from about 1” at entry to 4” at its maximum.

[@jonathangagnon6261]

Oh thats actually a pretty simple method to get a rough estimate! I was also curious if there could be a way to build a machine would be able to pump water into ballistic gel at a set PSI that could be used as to very accurately and precisely measure the displacement. But thats a very clever way of doing it and certainly adds a very good piece of information to the total picture!

[@chadbooth4371]

Very impressive Tyler! You definitely know how to keep ‘em talking! Truth is I never doubted it would work just fine as long as the bullet chosen was heavy enough to penetrate and hold together.

[@tylerfreel85]

Yep! When we start looking more at what a particular bullet at a particular speed will do, we start learning things that go against the grain of lots of traditional lore

[@txpredatorhunting]

Congrats on your harvest .

[@tylerfreel85]

Thanks!

[@EternalClimb]

Did you consider monolithic ammo for this? Would you in the future?

[@tylerfreel85]

I did, but didn’t have any solid data from anyone using them on game like this. Generally, penetration will be deeper but smaller wound channels. I do plan on experimenting with the Lehigh defense controlled chaos bullets as they seem to produce proportionally dramatic wound channels in other calibers

[@cgeo187]

Any observations to report on regarding the blood trail characteristics? While caveated with the fact that the moose did not run far, I would think a small caliber projectile would limit external bleeding. In denser vegetation, different terrain, or with greater distance post-shot, I could fathom this prolonging or limiting animal recovery.

[@tylerfreel85]

I think that’s definitely a potential disadvantage of the .22s, but it all sort of depends. Moose seem to not leave great blood trails in my experience, and if they’re shot well, it’s almost never needed. Similar with bears. I do know folks who have been seeing 1- to 3-inch wide exits on smaller animals like deer and antelope though-those bled just fine as you could imagine.

[@cgeo187]

@@tylerfreel85 Thanks for the context and report-out., much appreciated.

[@wesleygiddings893]

Thanks for sharing. Tyler is the man

[@jabooee]

Can you tell me about barrel lengths? I’ve seen a lot of 16” uppers but not a lot of 18.” What velocity changes can you expect from 16, 18 even 20” barrels?

[@tylerfreel85]

I built a 20” upper and an 18. Seems to average about 75fps difference between the two. Factory 88gn ELDM out of my 20” was 2,695 fps

[@ryanholzhouser7739]

Bows and arrows kill by hemmorige. Slicing sharp and through. Guns kill with kinetic energy. Energy measured at impact. Shot placement is key when using smaller caliber bang stick or bow.

[@tylerfreel85]

Shot placement is key with any weapon. Guns also kill by blood loss due to tissue damage, not by kinetic energy measured at impact. KE plays a part, but it’s just one factor.

[@reloadingfun]

a .224 77gr bullet had the same wind drift as s 140gr 6.5mm bullet? you are gonna have to explain what the specs of that 6.5 creedmoor were because ive shot a lot of 80gr and 90gr bullets along side 308's, 6.5's, and everything else in F-class and the .224 bullets drifted more than all of them. So I gotta call BS, or you need to explain what was up with that 6.5 creedmoor.

[@tylerfreel85]

Not a 77. 22 ARC was factory 75-gn ELD-M @ 2952, 6.5 was factory 140 SMK @2657. By the numbers in pure wind drift, the 6.5 should be about .5 mil better at 1k in a 10mph crosswind. Maybe it was a fluke, but through consecutive shot strings both waffled between 2.1 and 2.3 mils on that day, at that time. Exactly the same? I guess maybe not, but close enough to get my attention. At about 2950 (bolt gun pressures), an 88ELD-M should be right at 2 mils, or basically exactly the same as that 140 smk load out of that gun. Out of my gas gun at 2695 it’s about 2.3 mil drift on paper anyway.

[@reloadingfun]

@tylerfreel85 Sorry, i typed that wrong, i meant 75. did you shoot one gun then the other? or were they shot at the exact same time? in F-class, over a three year period, I shot thousands of rounds between 600 yard matches and 1000 yard matches and a bullet with a .435 bc is not gonna come even close to what a .264 bullet with a BC over .6, even with the 300fps advantage that the .224 bullet has. it isn't happening. I have too much experience to know otherwise. there is literally a 20" difference in drift in a 10 mph wind at 1000 yards between the two. that did not get overcome somehow. there has to be something else going on there. Im assuming you were shooting at steel targets. How big were they? did they allow for that much more difference in wind drift and still hit them?

[@tylerfreel85]

@@reloadingfun I believe the G1 of that 140 is around .526 at those velocities. It’s certainly possible that a slight drop in the wind accounted for at least part of that. I fired the 6.5 string then immediately switched to the 22, and held about .3 too far and backed off to the same hold as the 6.5. Target was steel, 12” width, so a little here and a little difference of impact location on target could account for that, sure. It definitely wasn’t measured at an F-class x-ring level of precision. I could have done a better job clarifying that. I’ve slung a lot of 77s and 80 smks across the course, so it got my attention with the implication of how favorably it would do at sub-500-yard hunting ranges. Wind is why I never pursued a .224 for critters like sheep. Some of these new bullets are changing that.

[@reloadingfun]

@tylerfreel85 Sierra states a BC of .626 at 2850 and above. From 2400 to 2850, it's 611. these BCs refer to muzzle velocity, which is what the ballistician at Sierra told me anyway. you're 2.1 mils hold would suggest a .611 bc with a 2650 mv. besides all that, there was definitely something else going on, or maybe even multiple things going on that you're not accounting for. Just for something to think about here. factors like the angle the wind is coming from, a let off somewhere along the way could make big difference. the wind could have done a complete 180 somewhere. A 2mph wind is worth 20 inches of drift. are you capable of seeing that? can you see a 4mph change 500 yards down range? did you have flags up at different distances? all the changes can happen a split second before you pull the trigger. it sounds like you may know how F-class works. Do you know how many times the conditions change during a 20 shot string. I mean, they can be big changes, too. before you come on a public platform, do the shooting community a favor and make sure you have your stuff squared away. Think about the reality of the situation before you decide to put out some content so you can make some money.

[@tylerfreel85]

@@reloadingfun Sierra website says .526 between 2000 and 2800 for a 140 smk. I understand how the variability of wind conditions works and a slight change that I didn’t pick up certainly could account for the .5 mil discrepancy. It seems like you think I am arguing that it will match the wind drift of that bullet under all conditions. I simply stated that in those conditions, shooting those two rifles on that day, back to back, I saw the same amount of wind drift, or more accurately, wind hold, and it got my attention. That’s all. There are better .224 bullets for wind drift and obviously better .264s than the 140smk, I’m not trying to say anything more than what I observed made me reconsider the .224 for big game, specifically with the 80- and 88-grain bullets

[@shawnrasmussen9994]

Back in the day I am sure that they probably used a 25-20, and the indigenous people used a 222 for polar bear.

[@lesleyboeder1798]

My grandfather used a 2520 for deer and moose

[@KENTSNEED-q7z]

A .22 hornet was also used a lot

[@HoffnerPrecision]

Made a good shot and it worked out. Doesn’t mean it’s an ideal moose gun, but proves that it can be done effectively. Internal damage was nowhere near what it would have been with a more traditional big game cartridge though.

[@tylerfreel85]

The conclusion of the video is that it’s not an ideal moose cartridge…but that was never the point. Internal damage isn’t usually a lot more dramatic than that with more typical moose rifles, but it can be depending on bullet selection.

[@ktmkaratechips]

Great work Tyler!

[@tylerfreel85]

Thanks!

[@lukebryant6523]

I for one have read through the rokslide forums and have seen all the evidence. I appreciate you documenting this and I don’t believe you’re really doing anything that crazy. I starting to believe what we have been taught about energy and its performance on game might be very skewed. According to my calculations, your average sedan at 10mph is putting out just shy of 11,000ftlbs of energy. Where as even a 300 win mag has about 3,600ftlbs of energy. So by the logic that energy and mass play a larger role, then shouldn’t a sedan going at 10mph be more effective at killing a moose than a 300 win mag? I know this an apples and oranges comparison to an extent but still food for thought, nonetheless.

[@tylerfreel85]

Yeah, I think overall kinetic energy is meaningless by itself. It only matters as much as it causes the bullet to function and cause tissue damage IMO.

[@williambehrend5452]

How would a heavier mono bullet work in it,say 70 grain tsx ect?

[@tylerfreel85]

It would probably penetrate better, but based on how larger cal ones do, wound channel would most likely be smaller than that of a lead core bullet

[@Mike-xi4zt]

I have lost 2, 10 point whitetail shooting 243 win105 grain BTHP. Not using BTHP match type bullets to hunt with any more.. last year I went with barnes all copper .243 85 grain after 8 days of hunting got a 10. Pooint WT.

[@tylerfreel85]

The Barnes will definitely penetrate more deeply. The BTHP match bullet is sort of an entirely separate thing, but worth pointing out that they are quite different than an ELDM. Complaints about them are that they don’t reliably open or upset, or that sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t. I haven’t killed anything with them so I don’t have the information to argue either case. The ELdM do seem to open dramatically though. That’s on bears in 6.5 cm, this moose, and lots of other moose with a .338 285grain ELDM.

[@Mike-xi4zt]

@@tylerfreel85 tried Hornady 87 grain BTHP 243. Berger 105 grain 243 BTHP, 2 deer killed with finishing shots 2, 10 pointer lost with 243 105 gr BTHP out of 1 in 8 twist barrel.

[@tylerfreel85]

@@Mike-xi4zt bummer. Yeah, I’d probably move on from BTHP after that experience.

[@mattisch5389]

Thanks for sharing and trying to educate the Fudders. I love your comment on if an animal takes 3 rounds from a 300wm their tough but 3 rounds from a 22 Arc means your undergunned. Keep doing what you do.

[@tylerfreel85]

Thanks! Ultimately, I’d just like people to learn what their bullets do, pick what will truly give them the best chance for success, develop their skills, and carefully consider all factors before sending a bullet on its way.

[@DenverFannin]

@@mattisch5389 of a animal takes 3 rounds of a 300 wm they can't shoot and should not be hunting lol.

[@tylerfreel85]

@@DenverFanninhello again, new hunter. Contrary to what you might think, it’s not uncommon to make or sometimes need follow-up shots on animals-especially moose, even with magnums. They aren’t magic

[@DenverFannin]

@@tylerfreel85 nah just means you are a bad shot lol.

[@tylerfreel85]

@@DenverFanninthat’s something a new hunter might think, but no.

[@Colton89u89u798]

Oh goodness this is going to glitch out boomers brains 😂😂.

[@tylerfreel85]

It should really come with a flashing “stroke advisory” banners

[@nathan8418]

I think hunting with a rifle would be puzzling to people born in the 1300's, not 1950's

[@hunt1198]

It’s all sales. That people say not to kill animals with a small cartridge. It’s only shot placement.

[@OldPecanHomestead]

It's more like when your shot isn't great it's going to happen to anyone who hunts a lot.

[@steveburlingame1935]

So wats your next hunt with the arc

[@tylerfreel85]

I have a couple of hunts with other stuff this fall, but next hunt with the ARC will probably be spring black bears.

[@poorfatman5317]

Why not the six ark

[@tylerfreel85]

That’s a good one too, but I’m liking the 22 better. Slightly heavier bullets, but the 6 is slightly slower with more drop and wind drift. It’s not a lot, but I don’t think the 6 gives much (if any) advantage

[@Wan2bMountainman]

Dude! I’ve listened to Tundra talk for years and finally have a face to put with the voice. This is great information and all but its no, I $hit my pants story, or something from the good doctor Frank.

[@phillycheesetake]

You keep saying "I'm not recommending this for moose" while dispelling every reason not to...

[@tylerfreel85]

I’m glad you brought that up because it illustrates something that a lot of people seem to get hung up on. Me not recommending it doesn’t mean that I think it’s incapable or an unethical choice. If it was, I never would have used it in the first place. People often want something contentious to be an “either/or” scenario. Either it’s great or it’s horrible…but that’s not how this is. It works just fine within reasonable parameters that hunters should already be restraining themselves to. My lack of recommendation is simply because it doesn’t offer advantages to the moose hunter that would justify picking it over say, a .308. In an ultralight sheep rifle? Definitely.

[@sappysiggy2351]

Is a 50 BMG Ethical in taking a Moose ? Or a Skull cap @25 yards with a 22WMR? We all know the answer, but that doesn't get clicks or enough engagement for the algorithms. Creativity and good journalism = Engagement

[@shawnrasmussen9994]

Hornady just announced a 70 grain CX bullet

[@tylerfreel85]

Yep! I plan on testing that one too…though I think wound cavities probably won’t be as dramatic as the eld-x and this case with the ELd-M bullets. I could be wrong though.

[@wildnorthadventures]

@@tylerfreel85definitely be interesting to test. The mono’s need velocity. So the question is how close is to close and where to draw the line for distance. I think the eldx is easier for sure. The Cx is picky. lol

[@midwestbd7144]

Classic example of “just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.” If you’re cherry picking your shots I guess the 22arc is fine, hit bone or have a weird shot angle and you’ll feel like a fool for not using the proper sized cartridge.

[@tylerfreel85]

Since when is choosing an ethical shot “cherry picking”? Doesn’t matter the caliber, a hunter should always choose a high-percentage shot. Considering a follow-up shot totally shattered the femur and kept going, I’d say it would probably be just fine.

[@midwestbd7144]

@ my point is that a perfect broadside shot is probably fine with the arc, if there’s a chance of hitting bone, a weird angle or running shot then no. And we all know nobody makes perfect shots every time which is why I say you should use something bigger for large game. Everyone wants to try proving they can kill something with the smallest cartridge possible.

[@tylerfreel85]

@@midwestbd7144 well, if you paid attention, one of my follow up shots did hit bone, shattered it, and kept going. I think you missed the point of all this. It’s not to prove that it’s the best moose cartridge, because it’s not.

[@FISHUNTREECOUNTRY]

Went down same speed as a bow shot

[@tylerfreel85]

It’s not uncommon for them to be on their feet longer that that, even with a magnum rifle. They just take a while to tip over sometimes. I’ve seen them fall more quickly and stay on their feet longer with a bow too

[@JHypers]

Now do 8.6 BLK…or would that put the Hornady sponsorship at risk?

[@Andrew-us2fk]

Shot placement is most important. I get excited so i would'nt use 22arc but then again I'm a sh*t shot lol

[@tylerfreel85]

@@Andrew-us2fk don’t be too hard on yourself, that can be overcome… if you can go shoot skills in an NRL hunter match, even with your basic hunting gear, that is excellent practice under the pressure of a clock and someone watching.

[@jason91notch]

I love the .22 arc but using it for something like Moose is borderline unethical, and illegal in many parts of the country.

[@tylerfreel9760]

You're correct that .22-cals are not legal everywhere, but what specific details about it's performance are you basing your feelings about it being unethical on?

[@veteranironoutdoors8320]

Those who cannot should not stand in the way of those who are.

[@billm2078]

I was taught to hunt by the Rose Brothers, they shot elk for decades with a 222 mag.

[@txpredatorhunting]

@@veteranironoutdoors8320💯

[@tristaneaslick3199]

A bow and stick have been killing them for a long time and that 22arc hits harder and faster. If you take good shots and within adequate distance it's more than capable obviously lol did you watch the video?

[@tevinmarchable]

Why wouldnt you just use a .243....? If youre worried about recoil and such. A .22 cal match grade cartridge is not a moose cartridge.

[@tylerfreel85]

I have used a .243. You seem to miss the point of this. Seemed to work alright as a moose cartridge to me. I’d buy you a case of beer if you could point out the difference between a .243 wound channel and that one.

[@tevinmarchable]

@@tylerfreel85 the difference being a) it's a 22 caliber, not legal in all places (I'm in BC) B) You're using a match grade bullet. a bullet not designed to expand, but actually to not even deform at all. C) Margin of error is much smaller with said caliber/bullet construction combo. While moose aren't the hardest ungulates to kill, you're encouraging people to use what's widely viewed as an unethical way to harvest a large game animal such as a Moose.

[@tylerfreel85]

@@tevinmarchable​​⁠no, a .22 cal Isn’t legal everywhere, but you really think that .020 difference in diameter with a similar weight bullet is gonna make that much difference? You are incorrect about that bullet. It is not designed to hold together. It has a thin jacket and expands pretty violently and creates a wound channel that is likely indistinguishable from that of a .243 with a similar bullet-and likely larger than that of a .243 with a traditional monolithic. If you watched this and think that’s what I’m encouraging people to do, or that promoting it for moose hunting was the point, you didn’t pay much attention.

[@FrontierAdventureCharter-pe6qo]

​@tevinmarchable your very mistaken on a few points there. Especially bullet construction which Tyler covered. Also hunting moose with .224 centerfire is definitely legal

[@michaelficarro2591]

@@tevinmarchable you're completely wrong about match grade bullets. The opposite of what you said is true, if anything they expand more than typical hunting bullets

[@COREYDEER]

No not a moose cartridge.

[@NorthRiverGuide]

Perhaps not for you

[@COREYDEER]

@ nope. Not a moose cartridge for anyone.

[@davidlindler3534]

I hunt out west on mule deer and have found mutiple deer that the hunter lost beacuse they shot it with a light bullet and caliber. Next to no penetration and rarely have exit wounds resulting in poor or absent blood trails. Why chance a trophy of a lifetime on poor penetration. This is why many states have minimum caliber requirements.

[@NorthRiverGuide]

May be a compelling argument to someone who has no experience taking game with combinations popularly labelled as sub marginal, but do you know how silly you sound to someone who actually does?

[@OldPecanHomestead]

22-250

[@jakeeames725]

I think you mean to talk about the 6ARC… better in every way…..

[@tylerfreel85]

Please elaborate…. Slightly heavier bullets, Lower velocity, more drop, and more wind drift. What makes it better in every way?

[@timwebb8960]

Spoiler alert, no, its not.

[@joshuachristiansen4253]

Bros uneducated about cartridges 😂

[@tripplebeards3427]

Just because it can be done, doesn’t mean it should. In my opinion, you owe the animal a little bit more respect than shooting a varmint round at it. I don’t care what kind of stout what you think it is. I’m apparently not the only one that thinks the same way here either.

[@mikematheson1778]

88gr eldm isnt a varmint round. That would be a 40-60 grain ballistic tip or blitzking designed to completely come apart within 1-2”

[@tripplebeards3427]

@@mikematheson1778 every round is a varmint round in 22 caliber no matter what you think… it’s not ethical in my book. People have shot polar bears in the head with 222s as well. It doesn’t mean you should. Sorry, but I wouldn’t be posting this if I were you.

[@tylerfreel85]

@@tripplebeards3427so is “your book” the ultimate authority? That means nothing and is not an argument. Debating these ideas is welcome, but simply saying something isn’t suitable doesn’t make it so.

[@lycheeznuts]

Clueless

[@JamesClark-lw6sw]

​@@tylerfreel85Then use a .22LR and stop being such an "overgunned Fudd" with your .22 ARC.

[@rikhansen4574]

Shot placement > caliber

[@FISHUNTREECOUNTRY]

We want to see manufacturers come out with monolithic .204 Ruger projectiles

[@jonprice1623]

Hammer bullets has you covered

[@FISHUNTREECOUNTRY]

@@jonprice1623 Yes USA made, nice. Haven't seen them on the shelves in Canada though - will have to do some research. Thanks for the heads up

[@tylerfreel85]

@@FISHUNTREECOUNTRYsomething like those hammers should be a great option. Especially with small cals, I think dramatic, violent expansion is pretty important for producing adequate wound sizes.

[@jaredconrad7075]

Prefer thru and thru. So it's a pass from me

[@Mattclay29]

Anyone new to hunting or hasn’t done much moose hunting please don’t take a 22Arc to hunt moose with because of the crap you seen in this video.

[@tylerfreel85]

If you think that’s what this video is telling people to do, you didn’t pay much attention

[@johnganshow5536]

@@tylerfreel85 For stupid people all it takes is a suggestion...

[@tylerfreel85]

@@johnganshow5536so should we not try to educate folks on how projectiles work and how to consider the many factors that are important in their caliber selection? By your logic, we shouldn’t hunt at all. There are a lot of “suggestions” and bad decisions that people can infer from any hunting information or content. It’s just as likely that someone chooses a big magnum because it’s “suggested” they need it, and they don’t practice much and have a bad outcome.

[@drfrankenstein4127]

@@tylerfreel85let’s try a 17 hmr from real close range next 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@tylerfreel85]

@@drfrankenstein4127 that’s a lazy way to try and discredit it. I think you can do better.

[@trenttaylor3838]

Now 17 HMR !! LOL

[@exilbayer6377]

The big caliber is NOT for the good shots. It´s a safety measure, if we mess up. And anyone who never made a bad shot is usually unexpierienced or a liar.

[@BrandonKilby-r2z]

It's not a question of can it. I've killed bunches of 800+lb cattle with 22lr. Many many African elephants have been killed with 7mm. We don't carry bigger rounds cause the little ones can't do it we have them in case. What if you were closer and it charged remember 40s after your first shot that's 35 more than he needs to kill you. Do as you wish dude, good click bait.

[@tylerfreel85]

What if I was charged? What if a meteor knocked me out of my elevated stand and the moose had a taste for man flesh? The “just in case” is often a perfect example of people selecting a cartridge that’s big and loud and makes them feel more capable than they are. It’s silly. Did you miss the part explaining how moose almost always die? It’s pretty normal for them to be on their feet anywhere from 10 seconds to a minute or two, regardless of caliber.

[@BrandonKilby-r2z]

@@tylerfreel85 like I said dude do as you wish. You knew what you were doing making this video and it worked. Next time really impress us and take a grizzly with it.

[@MauserM18]

You are Missing the point. People use bigger calibers to kill bigger animals quicker. All you do is letting that moose die slowly, that’s why it’s unethical

[@tylerfreel85]

Nah, you are missing the point. As described in the video, moose generally die just as quickly with smaller calibers too, it’s shot placement that’s most important. People tend to think bigger calibers kill animals more quickly, but that’s often not the case.

[@MauserM18]

@@tylerfreel85 tell yourself that lie to make you feel better. Ask any outfitter in Africa if they prefer small or big cartridges and you’ll get your question answered.

[@tylerfreel85]

@@MauserM18 yeah, nice try, but it’s not that simple. Big cartridges certainly CAN do more damage and CAN kill more quickly, but as a blanket statement with no context, it’s just not true. The outfitter I hunted with in Africa told me he preferred to use a .22/250 for plains game up through Kudu when hunting for himself. Maybe ask the outfitter that just watched his client drop a giraffe with a single chest shot with a 6mm. Every cartridge has its potential advantages and disadvantages, and every hunting situation involves much more than caliber. Usually, people who are fixated on big calibers use it as an excuse to suck at shooting and not practice. They like the appeal of buying a gun that they think will make them more effective, even if it actually makes them less effective as a result of their skill level or decision making.

[@MauserM18]

@@tylerfreel85 keep telling more lies to yourself if that makes you happy go for it. I don’t think you know how physics work and there are plenty of people who can shoot accurately with bigger calibers, too.

[@tylerfreel85]

@@MauserM18 I’ll see your “I don’t think you know how physics works” and raise you an “I don’t think you understand terminal performance.” Of course some people can shoot big cartridges accurately. But everyone shoots lighter cartridges better.

[@jrburge4674]

Unethical. Click bait. Get some ethics OL/Freel.

[@tylerfreel85]

But can you articulate why you think it’s unethical? Just saying it’s so doesn’t make it true. That’s lazy. You must think archery equipment is unethical too

[@JamesClark-lw6sw]

​@@tylerfreel85 Then use a .22LR and be a "real" expert! Otherwise, you are an "over gunned Fudd". 😂.

[@JamesClark-lw6sw]

​​@@tylerfreel85Because you had to pump multiple shots into the Moose like some road hunting hillbilly to bring it down? If you want to be a REAL" expert", WHY not use a. 22LR instead of being such an "overgunned Fudd" with your mighty .22 ARC? 😂

[@FrontierAdventureCharter-pe6qo]

​@@JamesClark-lw6sw willing to bet you don't hunt moose often. They almost always stand there waiting to die, shot them with 6.5cm up to 300 rum and it's most often the same results. Ask Adam Grenda, he put 6 shots in his bull with a 338rum, was he undergunned? No, if you shoot till they drop your going to fill them with holes either way.

[@jason91notch]

@@tylerfreel85 you still haven't explained specifically *why* someone *should* do this. And recoil is not a reason. The 22 arc barely recoils lighter than something like a 6.5 creed or .270. If you can't handle the recoil of a 6.5 creed or .270 win to ethically take down the largest big game animal in North America, then you shouldn't be hunting them in the first place.

[@johnmetz1158]

This is a mistake for hunting Moose, Dont do it

[@PJ_Perry]

Shot placement is key , and someone needs to test it..

[@johnmetz1158]

@@PJ_Perry Insanity doesn't need testing

[@PJ_Perry]

@johnmetz1158 to each their own , would i use that cartridge no but whos to tell someone they can't if that's all they have is my point then people should let it be ..

[@johnmetz1158]

@@PJ_Perry Have you ever heard of humane kill shots

[@gerry6.8]

Next on Rokslide "Deer moose and bear with the 17 HMR" why stop with a 22, just keep going.......

[@tylerfreel85]

Or…you could just say that you don’t understand what’s actually going on and feel threatened.

[@gerry6.8]

@@tylerfreel85 Give me a break I know exactly what's going on. I'm not sure why so many are emotionally invested in shooting game with tiny rounds and match bullets when there are much better options. Yes it can work but it's still a stunt that deserves to be called out. I've read that infamous Rokslide thread and many of those guys somehow think they are superior to other hunters for some reason. it's a cult that I don't want any part of. I feel bad for 20 something guide that has to follow a wounded grizzly into the bush and finish it off because the stunt failed.

[@tylerfreel85]

@@gerry6.8 what about the guide that has to follow the bear into the brush because the client shot it in the leg with his .416 that he can’t shoot? Don’t pretend that doesn’t happen! I understand that you feel threatened, but quit making up scenarios or lazy straw men. If you’re going to argue a point, do it justice.

[@gerry6.8]

@@tylerfreel85 I was busy and didn't have the chance to respond till now. I never said anything about a 416 so I would ask that you stop with the lazy straw man scenarios. A 416 is unnecessary especially with slow expanding bullets that don't leave a good wound channel. For the record we had the best results on coastal grizzly with the 300's and 200 and 220 gr Partitions. Whenever we get our season back I'll be carrying my 35 Whelen with something that will open up a big hole. I also worked as a guide and would have refused to take out a guy with a 22 cal rifle. It's nothing but a stunt and deserves to be called out. These guys that insist on carrying the tiny rounds seem so emotionally invested in it for some reason. It's bizarre and quite frankly cult like. The ones I have seen actually think they are superior to everyone else and that alone turns me off.

[@tylerfreel85]

@@gerry6.8 who is saying to take a .22 brown bear hunting? No one. I say .416 because that was one of the two worst rodeos I’ve been a part of while guiding brown bear hunters, guy was real proud of his rifle till he wounded his bear. The other was with a .300 warbird, a very high-velocity .300. The point is that hunters regularly whiff on bears with large-caliber rifles they aren’t really proficient with. The result is no better than if they whiff with a more manageable one. I could say the exact same thing about the magnum-or-nothing crowd’s attitude. I’m sure there are some dummies on both sides.

[@richardreed2839]

This is ridiculous. Use no less than 308. Surely that not legal.

[@rubenrodriguez7266]

You think 308 is ethical on moose? Have you seen how big they are? What about the shoulders? Nothing less than 338 caliber, I say! Why? Because I arbitrarily decided so! If you disagree you’re an unethical person that shouldn’t be hunting.

[@PhillipCrenshaw-u6m]

220 Swift better

[@JRPeñaDuran]

The act of hunting, particularly when it serves no survival purpose in modern societies, can reflect a deeper ignorance of our interconnectedness with nature. Instead of fostering a bond with other living beings, hunting reinforces a view of domination over them, blinding us to the intrinsic value of all life. This pursuit often distances us from wisdom, as we overlook the intricate roles each species plays in sustaining ecosystems. By choosing to kill rather than coexist, we ignore opportunities to learn from nature, ultimately limiting our growth in understanding and compassion as a species. It needs to be outlawed.

[@phillycheesetake]

What a wall of nonsense.

[@FrontierAdventureCharter-pe6qo]

We are a part of nature. Nothing can live without taking life it's as natural as it gets. Paying someone to kill for you doesn't make you better, it just shows your weaker than the rest of life on earth

[@MESENJAH]

My apologies, It seems you have zero understanding of any of the concepts pointed out...again my apologies. Your comment is clear evidence you understanding is limited.

[@phillycheesetake]

@@MESENJAH One day you'll grow up, read these comments back, and cringe.

[@MESENJAH]

Spoken like a true Neanderthal...

[@thevoyageur2152]

No, no, no. Just because U can doesn’t mean U should.

[@randysmith8604]

If you make a bad shot the animal will not die. Way too small for hunting big game. This should be illegal to hunt any big game

[@rubenrodriguez7266]

@@randysmith8604 if you make a bad shot, the animal will not die…regardless of caliber. It should be illegal to be a bad shot, but here we are!

[@randysmith8604]

@@rubenrodriguez7266 you are right. We can’t stop the bad shots or taking to long a shot for the caliber you’re using but we can limit the tiny tiny size meant for a rabbit to be used on big game. It is no different than limiting the weight of arrows for big game if that is still a thing . Or not using less than .243 for elk etc. problem is to many people can’t shoot and can’t handle a larger rifle.

[@tylerfreel85]

@@randysmith8604using a larger caliber doesn’t fix bad shooting, it only makes it work. Maybe we should focus on the shooting part more. You’re pulling a lot of suppositions out of thin air and stating them as fact to support your stance. That doesn’t work.

[@rubenrodriguez7266]

@@randysmith8604 literally everyone in the world shoots a smaller rifle better than they shoot a rifle with more recoil. All other things being equal.

[@drfrankenstein4127]

To each their own. But I really don’t understand trying to take game with the smallest gun possible. If you are low on money and all you have is an underpowered gun , go ahead and feed your family. But if you are bored and are tying to see how small of a gun that will barely get the job done …….. I just don’t get it. The animals deserve more respect than that. 👎🏻

[@tylerfreel85]

Yeah, you clearly didn’t get the point of all this.

[@lurebenson7722]

As a person born and raised in NW Oregon with massive canyons and mountains and a professional hunting guide since 1978 that does use range finders, I call Bull shit liar on that is 1000 yards. At 1000 yards that plate would not be seen and even through one of two 6.5x20 X Leupold scopes trying to see those steel plates may only look like a spec. I have a test for the liars of talk of 1000 yard shooting so goes like this. Stand a fool who talks of shooting 1000 yards on a street corner on a strait road and ask that knuckle head point to 1000 yards - every time the knuckle head points out 2 city blocks they believe is the distance of 1000 yards and I have done this also with hunting clients. The biggest fad lies now on KZbin videos are the 1000 yard shots - the 10 mm is now only used to hunt Alaskan brown bears the 45-70 has the power of a 50 BMG and lead crap bullets are better than all modern bullets - the AR 15 jams ever time fired and takes 1 week to clean and the AK 47 brough up from the salt water of the Ocean after 50 years at the bottom of the Ocean can just shoot with no problem 500 rounds a second and a child can pick up for the first time any AK and shoot coins at 1 mile out Yeah the lair Bull shitters are all over KZbin. believe anything on KZbin then you are a gullible fool !

[@FrontierAdventureCharter-pe6qo]

Haha oh boy. Re read that to yourself and tell me how dumb you feel. That plate was filmed through a spotter, Tyler has much better things to do than lie to bait fudds. He's out there proving whether things work or not, you're just ranting on KZbin haha

[@tylerfreel85]

It’s filmed through a spotting scope genius. If it’s faked, why does it take nearly 3 seconds after the impact to hear the steel?

[@rubenrodriguez7266]

@@lurebenson7722 man, I am not sure who to believe now! The guy with the LRF that was there or the guy born and raised in NW Oregon with the calibrated eyeballs who called BS. Tough choice! Man, back in my day even the old men commonly shot beyond 1000 yards with their rifles. Now all they do is whine about others doing something they can’t. They just don’t make old people like they used to!

[@lurebenson7722]

@@rubenrodriguez7266 Tell you what you can man up to your BS of you can shoot 1000 yards any day of the week and hit 6 to a 12 target means you want to run that PUNK mouth at me and say I don't know what I am talking about. So, man up PUNK come to NW Oregon so I can put you on one of canyons to shoot a 6 to 12 inch target at 1000 yards. PUNK ASS talk is cheap but being a man and doing what you say is another thing. I am sure you are another loudmouth video war gamer!

[@hunt1198]

It’s all sales. That people say not to kill animals with a small cartridge. It’s only shot placement.