Kasrkin Vs Scions! Which one is BEST? | Astra Militarum Tactics

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[@calebs9291]

I wish GW would tell us when these Kasrkin boxes come out.

[@kainiemi4895]

GW is losing out on a lot of meta chaser money. I know I'm printing a bunch because they are not available

[@steeltywars1]

Not for a bit just going for how long previous kill team boxes to come out individually.

[@razorbackjack7880]

And the sprues for the stupid guys are going for 100+ on eBay. It’s stupid and frustrating as hell.

[@Kibbet21]

It’s coming out same time as an independent master of possession model

[@tinylittledragon9412]

@@kainiemi4895 Do you have a link for the STL?

[@KappicEagle]

If you add a bodyguard to the Cadia Castellan it gains the Auxiliary keyword and then can be added to a pure Scion list!

[@karlnygren]

I've thought about this as well. Another perk with adding the bodyguard is to extend the order range since they are measured from the unit and not the model. Edit: to clarify, I had not thought about this opening up for using the castellan but more about how adding models changes the role.

[@eddyastor2724]

Well caught!!

[@shae98sc2]

That … may change several of my list ideas.

[@eddyastor2724]

As far as keywords go I noticed that bodyguards dont have the character one so they dont count as a 5 wound character model in boarding actions too!

[@matrdrake87]

I didnt realise you could give a castellan a bodyguard. 1st Where is it stated? 2nd does it include creed? I think creed could add a fair bit to the scion death ball.....

[@MovieTacular]

As a Crusade player, having a buffed Kasrkin with Brutal Strength, and Legacy of Kalladius on the Sergeant is brutal! I've had them rush into Sister Sacresants, or even 10 Astartes, and just mop the floor with them! Kasrkin Squad, Ready for War!

[@robertnathan5250]

Very much agree with most of what you said in this vid. I like karskin BUT I'm a scion guy. At present I am doing pure scion infantry list with 3 scion command squads and 15 scion squads. Easy to remember and tends to surprise people on what they can do (especially considering a lack of born soldiers). Loving it and had a great game against eldar, winning 91-86.

[@OrangeGills]

The stormtroopers ability (exploding 6's) is sometimes better than born soldiers anyway, especially when it counts like on plasma guns. (it's better when you wound on a 3+ or better, worse if you wound on a 5 or worse, same on 4's)

[@discipleofdagon8195]

​@@OrangeGillsor a melta for that matter

[@OrangeGills]

@@discipleofdagon8195 well now with 10th ed meltas are only great if you can reroll wounds, but that's another matter entirely.

[@bengonzalez5215]

The new kids on the block, the kasrkin! Me: *visible eye twitching*

[@patrykgaazka4912]

Same! Watching this and looking at my at least 20 y.o. metal Kasrkin models :D

[@rileyernst9086]

"That's no moon." You're opponent Upon seeing the wrath of the scion deathball for the first time.

[@rileyernst9086]

I really like the transportation issue of the kasrkin. If they could deepstrike they'd just be scions. Lore wise kasrkin are grenadiers, elite assault companies within cadian regiments, so they're likely to go to the front like any other Cadian soldier, in a taurox/chimera or valk. They are sent to help bolster/breakthrough vital strong points. Whilst scions are an independent special forces unit with its own specialised equipment and likely a higher priority on the battlefront. They will be more likely given missions such as dropping behind enemy lines to kill high priority targets or commence sabotage, or commence long range patrols and hit a run tactics in the enemy rear with their taurox primes.

[@discipleofdagon8195]

I find it so funny how a valk can roll up, deploy scions at point blank range, fire and then hop back in the valk with mount up

[@DarthNov]

Thank you for posting this :) Just reading into the new dex, so its refreshing to get this as an audiobook ;)

[@t3hSpAdEs]

36:30 if you take Ursula instead, it’s 30 points more and you are adding 1 str to every weapon. If you are running a scion detachment and want your scions to be troops, add an ogryn bodyguard to Ursula or the castellan and they do not interfere with your scions being troops

[@CatharsisChaser]

Can’t add bodyguards to named characters sadly 😞 although I always run creed with my additional scion patrol deathball since she gives great strength breaking points on all that 24 inch dakka

[@t3hSpAdEs]

@@CatharsisChaser darn well it would still work for the castellan and you could always have Ursula in your main detachment but deploy her with the scions

[@hobmaniac]

What you can do, is take a Chimera (85 base), a fully kitted Kreig Squad (80 pts), a Commissar, who sits in the Chimera (40pts) , give the Commie Officer Cadre: WT: Superior Tactical Training (1 CP) so he knows regimental orders + prefectus and rush obs with it. Keep the Scions in orbit to drop in (dependent on enemy positioning). Even if you lose the Krieg and Scions you still have a mobile command vehicle (MCV), bonus: combine that with some scount sentinels at 45 pts each

[@Slaave]

Scions need lots of help. My wish list to fix them: MTCS can issue orders upon landing from deepstrike (mechanically the same as disembarking and ordering) MTCS has RR1s aura for MT units as we can’t take Castellan and have no other way to get rerolls on our plasma 1CP pick a MT unit or Valkyrie with MT embarked on it, that unit can arrive from reserves turn 1 and counts as having moved its max move distance (so you can grav chute disembark that valk) If you take a pure scions detachment all scions in your army become Troops (not just that detachment) (this lets you take more than 3 units of scions if you bring a single guard tank as support.

[@rhystash9212]

Love your thoughts on Scions. They are so niche for guard but very fun!

[@thecavalrygeneral3453]

this is the OG Kasrkin appreciation channel so the answer is clearly Kasrkin.

[@Totalbollocks88]

Smashing guide! You have earned 10 minutes in the canoe :)

[@RealFreelance]

Hey man! Learned about you through Frost's Den! Love your table top discussions. Love the production value!

[@MrJDMBenji]

It'd be sweet if you could use either of these units as bodyguards for the inclusion of an inquisitor. This was a great video to break down the differences between 2 units which seem quite similar on paper. 👌

[@christophermiller7600]

Yo. gotta say respect man you make my life less shit when im working can just listen and theory craft it my noggin escaping for a peaceful few. litral guard prozac. no complaints 🤙

[@paulrossiter3697]

I've generally found that the Kasrkin barbicant mortal wound bomb is superior by far to scions. But only one squad can do that. After that it gets real blurry. Scion death blobs are legit.

[@bryangoh3080]

I mean, why not both, as they say :p

[@discipleofdagon8195]

​@@bryangoh3080 because tempestor prime warlord traits are tasty

[@Dragonspirit223]

I used to play pure Scions, now I don't. I need rerolls of 1s to hit to keep my Plasma alive, especially with Drill Commander running around. I hate my loss of Regiments. They watered us down in options, and that's what I hate the most. But lets ignore that. To me the problem with Scions is we need support from things, speed of a Valkyrie, dakka of the Taurox or mobility of it. But then you look at the Valkyrie a bit closer. With the Flyers being hit thanks to bombers, you suddenly can't drop them in 6" away until turn 3, assuming they live past turn 2, which they won't. Not to mention before that thanks to the change to the Command Squad you can only take a Command Squad and a 7 man team. That ain't that much firepower. Oh, then why don't we just bring a 10 man? Well then you need to bring a Vox Caster to keep within Inflexible Command, and then you remember that GW cares more about how things are modeled than logic, where a Scion suddenly loses their gun to hold the phone. Not to mention it isn't that much damage because you're still probably wounding on 5s for your lasguns unless you spend a CP to reroll the wound, honestly if your going for this you're banking that CP for this. But oh wait now we have the Taurox Prime, who since we don't have access to Mechanized Infantry we have to wait for turn 2 to get out of, at which point you might as well have deep-striked them. They can take a 10 man or a 5 man and 5 man, again cutting into damage. Not to mention for some reason they don't have Stormtroopers to have 6s explode, honestly not sure why. As far as everything else, basically Scions and Kasrkin have the same durability, bar two stratagems. Scions have Indoctrination and Kasrkin have Cadia Stands. I'd argue Cadia Stands is a bit more useful than Void Armor, but that might be because of survivor bias where a Brutal Strength bomb survived like 3 Terminator squads shooting at them thanks to it (they were also in cover). I personally would've liked it like this: Allow Scions Regimental in soup armies, and allow them Stormtrooper as their 'third' Regimental Doctrine. This way the Scions could fulfill a damaging role while Kasrkin fulfill a more specialized role. They'd both have their place equally. Then in their own army, I mean pure army not just Detachments, they'd get Scion Regiments in addition to Stormtroopers, maybe allow their Primes and Command Squads to optionally split off how you like (Vox man and Officer detach from a Med-kit and Banner with a Melta gun, something like that) to allow you to have Transports work a bit better (primarily the Valkyrie, the Scions true Transport). But instead it feels like Scions got shafted for opportunities. And we're told that since we have 3 admittedly strong Warlord Traits, I frequently find myself only taking Drill Commander because of Plasma and Volley Guns, that we don't have room to complain. Idk, maybe I'm just a butthurt Scion player who loves customization more than anything else. Its entirely possible; to be honest that's probably what it is. I just don't like looking at the Greater Good Detachments and the options you could build around them and then look at what we got. 1 'Regiment', 3 Warlord Traits, 1 Relic, 1 Stratagem. As for how I'd use them... I use both. I bring two Detachments, one standard and the other Scion, 2 Kasrkin, Creed, and the Lord Solar in it. Then for Scions 2 Command Squads, one of which being the Dreadnork with Drill Commander and the other built for dropping in the backline to support the troops (aka. Inflexible Command). I use the Kasrkin to trade up, delete a thing with the Mortal wound ball and try to hunt a tank or two with the Trophy Hunters Regimental Doctrine. Meanwhile Scions hold positions, drop in the backline and hopefully kill enough things to survive the next turn. If I were a normal Guard player it'd probably be the same, though turning the backline boys into 5 man teams to do actions and try my hardest to drop them in within 24" of a Voxcaster. They'll die but the objective will be completed.

[@Christian-js4cl]

I got a question. What do you think about a Kasrkin Squad only with Hotshot Lasgun, no special weapon and the extra doctrine Brutal Strength. And with Creed and she give always FRFSRF then you get 27x Shots with +1S. As extra you get a little bonus when it comes to melee. What do you think about that? Thanks

[@RiffSilverthe1andonly]

I love both, Kasrkin I just plug in my steel legion list which already has mechanized infantry, run them up the board in a taurox have them launch volleys of special weapon fire then pay 2 cp for them to mount up and stay safe for another turn. Scions I’ll plug in 2 5 man squads to either do objectives or pop in unexpected in the enemy’s backline and shoot some of their stuff

[@Zoggest]

I'm starting Astra with the cadia stands box, was wondering if the start collecting Scions would be a good addition ? I'm not sure how it works exactly but on paper it seems like a good value box. Edit : I bought it anyway, i love the box :D

[@MordianGlory]

Yes, absolutely!

[@gargafarg2842]

I cut all non elite infantry from my guard list. I have 2 squads of kasrkin, and 3 squads of 5 scions. I find that most of what I want out of my infantry is to screen the backfield, so that the tanks and sentinels can get to work fighting over the middle of the battlefield without needing to worry about getting outflanked. trying to hide a 10 man squad of infantry is just more difficult that hiding a 5 man squad, especially with a massive mortar pit taking up so much space. The only one I find is worth the effort to hide is the kasrkin bomb. The other unit of kasrkin is more of a pregame move/skirmisher unit.

[@chae7684]

Thought about running a kasrkin bomb with the barbicants key and giving them duty and honour order with secure data secondary to guarantee 3 table quarters turn one while also hopefully killing a priority target while they're at it. Thoughts?

[@Laughing_God]

"Kasrkin are good but should not be send into terminators or anything." Yeah, i can vouch for that. Kind of funny a terminator died from a stray frag grenade though.

[@Shaso-xv3tw]

I think the best uses I’ve seen for Karkin are making a melee squad and giving them brutal strength with meltaguns and Grenade Launchers, or giving them plasma rifles, volley guns, and the sniper rifle and giving them the trophy hunters ability for a squad that charges high priority targets up close and a unit that can melt tanks and monsters

[@Crossbow-xy4xg]

I was just wodering about this topic like 10h during my lecture xD

[@boutinpowered8373]

All Scions or Kasrkin when using Mortar Guard.

[@joelpratley9248]

Can Ursula Creed issue orders to Tempestus Scions?

[@oblivionfan345Tony]

I am a HUGE fan of Heirloom Weapons on a Kasrkin bomb with the Barbicant's key. It lets you deploy outside of 12in to avoid Auspex Scan type abilities and still rapid fire for those delicious mortal wounds.

[@PF_K]

Generally want to be using FRFSRF order anyway, so rapid fire isn't a huge deal.

[@oblivionfan345Tony]

@@PF_K I have terrible luck and prefer to hit on 2's lol. I already know the moment I try without Take Aim I'll roll nothing but 2s

[@jayteegamble]

@@oblivionfan345Tony I don't think Kasrkin ever want to FRF anyway. You're taking 4 special weapons plus a sniper rifle plus maybe giving one guy melta bombs. That leaves you with only 3 regular hotshot lasguns.

[@alexandercain8904]

34:45 Scion deathball

[@MNman87]

Wouldn't a kasrkin bomb be better than a scion bomb? With strays that allows mortals on 5 and 6 s?

[@Woki-Toki911]

Ingrained precision works only on a unit with born soldiers doctrine. Which scions can't have.

[@MNman87]

@@Woki-Toki911 yea that's my point.

[@pabloalonsolasagabaster658]

I don´t know why, but in my games scions always underperfom (i usually roll badly with them). My reliable damage output always comes from the leman russes, 100% . Ocassionally Bulgryns or rough riders once. I haven´t tried karskin yet, but I guess they don´t fit in my playstyle despite being really cool

[@andresmoonero5634]

Same; and I used to run pure scions. Found that one kasrkin in a chimera as a reaction unit to plug the line, and a separate unite with barbicants key far out performs because you can give them orders before they teleport where as scions don’t get orders on the drop

[@rukusrenus]

Can u put scions in chimera? Like, if i take AoO detachment of regular guard, and free patrol of scions, can i put scions from patrol in chimera?

[@Dragonspirit223]

Yes, the Chimera can handle 12 Astra Militarum Infantry, Scions have that keyword

[@discipleofdagon8195]

Scions really need some love.

[@DarrinSK]

biggest disadvantage with scions is I do not like their models.

[@jamesbronk5720]

With the new forge world rules leaking I can wait for more unit reviews coming up!

[@rhystash9212]

HSVolley guns at 30" range I believe.

[@thehangman3105]

Still can't get me a box o these

[@Dr_Robodaz]

Scions look so damned good as an allied option for Imperial Knights.... I wonder if they would be viable though.

[@keyne444]

"Kasrkin Vs Scions! Which one is BEST?" You're a Scion boi, my friend. This idea is biased :3

[@MordianGlory]

I am team Scions, but I tried to be impartial with this video

[@stillunsure7630]

Laughs in Kasrkin Platoons! Just use Kasrkin as Scions as a pure force and then you can get a more astheticaly pleasing looking force. 😁

[@rileyernst9086]

Well you don't because the kasrkins are 10% too big.

[@stillunsure7630]

@@rileyernst9086 I've the old metal one's that match better. 😁

[@abellyofanarmy]

You know what? Scions need a scions special similar to the same that you have done previously! Including air cavalry and the taurox primes! Think about it!

[@calumdeighton]

I collected a small Stormtrooper army a while ago and thought about getting into the Guard Codex. Especially having been on the receiving end of enough Tau, Guard, Votann, Knights & Necrons for one Edition. So trying out something that can KTF effectively and is simple to learn is great.

[@zsoltlang2144]

As a new player I see these units too expensive for infantry, cause for me they are for soaking the damage instead of ultra heavys

[@EvilEmperorZ]

Depends on the marines, maybe avoid the Templars lol

[@rileyernst9086]

What? Scions and Kasrkin aren't the elite infantry of the imperial guard! 2nd Gen stormies are, it is in recognition of their rare and elite status that GW has never made more of them, as to reflect their scarcity and the fact that they're the most highly sought after imperial guard soldiers in universe.

[@t3hSpAdEs]

0:58 please post this picture in the discord

[@noirceuillesombre3472]

💫💫💫💫💫

[@DrTorf]

I love my scions…. If there weren’t the problem, that there is no possibility to give orders to scions after deepstrike….. 😢

[@markdorn8873]

Can I pick Krieg Grenadiers? No? **sad gas mask noises**

[@radiationpony8449]

Kaserkin win, they look like Elite soldiers not plastic miniatures xp

[@hobmaniac]

Scion are better because you can actually purchase them

[@Uberelitehaxorz]

You can get one and you cant get the other. Easy choice.

[@rileyernst9086]

I really do not like the new kasrkin models. It really looks like someone screwed up the scale in CAD before they made the molds. These guys are meant to be guardsmen recruited from the ranks, but they are absolutely bigger in every proportion than their fellows. It's stupid.

[@rileyernst9086]

This is the only reason why I do not like them. It's a really big reason though(hur hur). I really like the look of the models and I really like the old ones. But I can't reconcile the scale disparity.

[@CatharsisChaser]

I think people saying scions got nerfed don’t realize a lot of the previous regimental options got rolled into their base profile with the exception of the special weapons change. Also stormtroopers on a buffed up squad (take aim + rerolling both 1’s and creed +1 S if you’re feeling frisky ) is vastly mathematically superior to an equivalent born soldiers unit as the plasma/melta/hsvg spike like crazy and you automatically get double the output in the opening volleys thanks to our tempestor prime’s diligent drill practice 😉 Still running the barbie bomb and a mechanized squad of kasrkin too as they are absolutely savage scalpels GLORY BOYS LEAD THE WAY! 🫡

[@REAPER3382]

I will be bringing 4 squads of kasrkin because i only play games with the lads and they are ok with it. Pretty lame for them to limit kasrkin like that