More BAD NEWS For Harley Hints At Bigger Issues...

[@spitescorner]

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[@robertbuzby3769]

Outdoor...on a bike...100%...

[@MoremoneythansenseV4]

vlog because of how you do your audio. Clear voice with some exhaust in the background.

[@yonderosa]

I will ALWAYS love the sound of a VMAX in tune and anyone who rides old Japanese motorcycles understands they are a work in process as long as you own them! LOL! Now I gotta go back and look at yer data buddy! You confirmed several trends I had only suspected! Now, at 70 yrs young, I simply cannot justify spending an insane amount of money at a time in my life when I can mostly afford it. I LOVE all two-wheel vehicles, ICE, electric, and pedals. But I'm also one of those people who doesn't want my bike equipped with all the latest rider modes and aids and controls. I just want a well-engineered bike with adjustability to plant it on the surface. I'll do the rest. Love the format brother!

[@hainsworthb]

Like the mix. Some road, some shop. Would like to see a live show. Maybe Zoom with some other vloggers, like Sean from Bikes and Beards, Doodle, etc. Throw in some Q&A from live watchers. Definitely would tune in.

[@HikerDave57]

I like this better; it's nice to see some scenery passing by even if it's only on a computer monitor.

[@msd85TvT]

A motorcycle should never be more expensive than a car. Period. That is free advice to Harley.

[@eibbor171]

Harley- ....nah were gonna double it instead

[@mr1bienvenu1]

Harley is a social club and I'm not in it.😊

[@robvanduren761]

LOL what about the price of emtb. Thats really taking the piss

[@robinrichey935]

Since 2000 a Gold Wing has as many Parts as an Accord, someone has to pay for them and it won’t be Honda

[@robertmifkovic6325]

​@@robinrichey935Not every bike is GoldWing

[@FSXairpilot]

People are broke, high taxes, fuel prices, housing costs, and other thighs that have gone up are causing this issue. Motorcycles are a luxury, first things to go in a bad economy.

[@TexasDragon3907]

I don't think it's entirely fair to write Motorcycles off as a luxury purchase. I've had a lot of people ask me about owning a motorcycle because they want a cheap vehicle. Buying a grom that costs 1/4 what it would cost to insure a car whilst also using half the fuel of a hybrid car and costing something they could reasonably save up for in a year makes financial sense for some people and I think that's reflected in the data shown in the video. I like to think if the motorcycle industry leaned into marketing those benefits a little harder they might be better at weathering these storms. Automakers are less and less willing to sell cheap starter cars (Yaris, Fit, Fiesta, Sonic) and motorcycles could fill that niche.

[@xNemesiSxPR]

for some is a luxury, others might need it as a vehicle because cars are stupidly expensive this days. A car payment can be as much as 300 per month probably the cheapest if you have good credit and a initial payment. thats like 25% of a paycheck here, still in puerto rico ppl prefer cars, where i am from so.

[@yamaharider8014]

In many countries around the world people can ONLY afford small cc bikes. I have scaled back and now own a Burgman 200 that gets 70mpg/80mph. My Ford minivan sits in the driveway alot, as I live in FL and ride year round.

[@FSXairpilot]

@TexasDragon3907 I don't think motorcycles can replace small cars, sure they may offer better mpg in the case of the grom and cheaper maintenance cost, but they're wayy less practical in terms of utility and provide less protection from the environment compared to small cars. Only in places with warm climate can you see motorcycles uses year round unlike cars. Also used cars can be bought for 3-4k. I bought my hybrid car for $4700, you don't need to buy a new car just to commute around. Also the grom doesn't cost a 1/4 of the price to insure a car. I pay $70 a month for my car, full coverage. That's $840 a year. To add to my point, I have a business, I can write off car purchases and maintenance, but I can't for a motorcycle. Hence, why I consider them a luxury.

[@ellwoodwolf]

The Japanese are bikes are good and priced much better. Harley is a bygone era.

[@petegospodarzec119]

I am always buying a preowned bike. I just cannot stand all dealer fees. It's ridiculous.

[@yamaharider8014]

Yeah, I know a lady that likes her Caddys and won't buy one new. She buys lease cars with low milage, that had meticulous servicing. Dealer fees$, and depreciation$ as soon as you ride/drive it off the lot!!

[@ellwoodwolf]

If dealership fees were less I would buy new... But they just keep getting more ridiculous

[@Fred-mv8fx]

@@ellwoodwolf The thing that irritates me so much is I can quote a cheap Ninja 500 and they will give me a reasonable amount out the door (maybe 15% over including taxes). When I quote a $10k or $15k bike the dealers really stack up the fees reaching and exceeding 30% of the value of the bike in dealer nonsense. The fees on the expensive bike SHOULD come out to be a lower % of the total sale, not more, since taxes are the only thing that are tied to the value of the bike. I am absolutely not paying that. Maybe the dealers should think about cutting their expenses.

[@jakel2837]

I get it. I bought my bike new, but that's because I wanted a clean slate that can be maintained for 20+ years. I don't intend to replace it any time soon

[@mrpoizun]

The trouble with that is, most owners beat the shit out of their bikes, plus they don't maintain them properly.

[@m.f.m.67]

Another problem you failed to address is the outrageous cost of motorcycle maintenance at today's dealerships. All that fancy technology is proprietary and only the dealerships can access all the codes, canbus shit and all the rest...at $150 dollars a shop hour. Screw that!

[@kpnomad7]

But modern day riders want over tech bikes, cars, homes. I really like the extra power from new bikes, but, older simple bikes are looking alot better!

[@darrylbrooks7175]

BMW Motorcycle Dealership rates is $190/hr.

[@NoFrictionZone]

I bought a Speed 400. The first service was going to cost $430.00. That's insane for an oil change!

[@UnrulyRider]

Learn how to do your own service work and maintenance... it's really not difficult. A few tools and a service manual are a good investment for any motorcycle owner to have.

[@jakeviolet2195]

Regular motorcycle maintenance is just oil change, air filter, fluids, chain and tires. Any independent shop can do that or you can do it yourself. The only time you should have to go to a dealer is for big jobs like valve adjustments or if something breaks. If your bike has software that needs to be updated, that should be covered under warranty. Bikes really aren't that complicated or proprietary. Pushing the myth that they are is how dealers keep you coming back to the service department for regular fleecing.

[@viperq]

Hiring Jochen Zeitz as CEO was a huge mistake. Edit: Nice seeing Spite on the Revzilla comments.

[@davegallo8166]

That was to course correct the mess Menear made with loyalists. He gave us the livewire , revmax, and the pan am, as well as the aborted Bronx. Zeitz was brought in to appease the Harley bros, and still shafted

[@bonnevillebagger9147]

⁠@@davegallo8166I’m not a Harley loyalist, so I like what Menear was doing. It was actually interesting. I even bought the 5.7k serial1 rush city speed.

[@noidreculse8906]

@@davegallo8166Jockstrap Zeitz was brought to the board of directors and then elevated to CEO by Blackrock, its biggest shareholder

[@davegallo8166]

@@bonnevillebagger9147 a lot of non traditional HD buyers liked what he was doing , but every time to company tries to innovate or evolve the dude bros immediately throw a hissy fit

[@andypants1000]

More roads to Harley brought me to the brand when it was always a "I'd like one but they don't make one for me" bike. The 'course correct' has really turned me off the brand. They make next to nothing I like now.

[@BUGBYTE_]

Bikes are expensive. I think the manufacturers got greedy when people were over spending when COVID hit. We got a bunch of new riders for a year and a half then it slowed. I'm priced out of a new bike purely on principle. I'm not taking the hit unless I can get a deal on a previous year model like you did. I would love for there to be more riders but the problem is it's a fad for some people and they lose interest quick. CF moto is becoming the Harbor freight of bikes. It's a reasonable price for what you get. The other manufacturers are starting to see the value of cheaper bikes. Harley is basically trying to stay premium. I don't get it they are leaving money on the table. I know this is a ramble.

[@SummitCoyote]

ford tried that... and it's not going well for them either

[@spitescorner]

I don't think we actually got a bunch of new riders in COVID actually. At least not in terms of registered motorcycles. The data seems to show that bikes sold at the normal rate, they just couldn't replenish inventory and if there was a spike it was in non-registered bike sales (read dirt bikes)

[@goldmanstacks1445]

Facts the prices are not realistic in the current economy. The companies will need to lower prices or slowly die. Make money over high volume sales. The only reason bikes are not selling is they cost too much

[@nickolaslewis4416]

I bought a new CFMOTO and have been very happy since. Owned it for a couple of years now.

[@MarioLaubacher]

For perspective, the two Triumph 400 models in Switzerland account for 1/6th of all new Triumph registrations Jan-Sep this year, and they didn't displace other models, they're where Triumph's growth comes from. Bearing in mind that we have a tiered license system here (you need to drive 2 years with a

[@tripacer8259]

People with cell phones scare the hell out of "experienced" riders, they aren't buying new bikes because of the dangers of car/trucks "drifting" in your lane. I've been riding for over 50 years and it has changed DRASTICALLY!!

[@steelrolex]

Very true, and in Europe as well 🙁

[@haroldhass5180]

To say nothing of our roads, it is getting like a third world country.

[@jakel2837]

Distracted driving isn't new. My dad used to drive with his knees and read the paper before cell phones

[@Azriel-ben-Abraham]

Yep ... I don't own a car ... I commute 127 miles round trip on my Roadglide ... Cages are even more distracted at higher speeds than ever ...

[@overbuiltlimited]

@@jakel2837 Yeah and I used to know a guy that would eat soup out of a bowl with a spoon while driving. So what? Eating soup out of a bowl while driving was never a trend. Today however, people looking at cell phones while driving is a trend. At any random light I can usually see at least one person looking at their damn phone. Sometimes everyone at the light is looking at a phone. Crazy. I would love to get back into motorcycling. With today’s drivers though, I just can’t.

[@th3nightlion624]

The demand Harley would see for a $4-6k old style American roadster with a dirt simple 300-600cc pushrod v-twin would be overwhelming.

[@heffe40]

Just buy a used iron 883. Oh wait that's not a man's bike that's a girly bike. People always afraid of their persona.

[@lloydwellington5271]

@@heffe40 Yup, used to be able to buy those dirt cheap because Harley would mandate the dealership get 2 if they wanted access to get other premium models to sell. And the "girly" tag is everywhere, Mazda Miata, Porsche Boxster etc.

[@Mrdrivereight]

They made those streets 500 - 750 cc not a lot of people bought them.

[@th3nightlion624]

@@Mrdrivereight it was $7k for an underpowered 500cc. Maybe if they restarted that program (and priced it competitively), we would see more sales volume.

[@Mrdrivereight]

@@th3nightlion624 when they came out they were 6k I use to work for HD then. I took the 500 out on the highway did 103 mph and amazing ground clearance. No one wanted them people kept saying they weren’t real Harley’s. I never bothered taking the 750 out.

[@ChadWinters]

I started riding at 51 years old, I'm a successful professional and can afford any bike I want, but starting on a big 20-30K bike that I would be terrified to drop was a dumb mistake I couldn't make. And I live in an area where when you say ride people automatically just ask what kind of Harley you ride and when you say not a Harley they look at like it doesn't compute. (although I do feel like that is changing, mostly due cost) I went with a 5,000 dollar, 400lb 350cc Royal Enfield. Great first bike and does almost everything I will ever need. I like to ride for relaxation not adrenaline and don't want to pay for HP I will never use. Also not looking to see how many speeding tickets I can rack up. I will probably be adding something like a Triumph Bonneville or a smaller touring bike. But its never going to be over 12K for a bike for me.

[@DouglasRosser]

52 year old who just started riding in the last six months. Picked up a KTM 390 Adventure.

[@DirkDiggler-p5q]

Its obvious your a nutless professional.

[@ChadWinters]

@@DirkDiggler-p5q or not an idiot trying to compensate for something. And the only reason I specified that was to make it clear the reason I did not buy the more expensive bike was not because I couldn’t afford it. But hey keep being a successful average youtube commenter, keeping the dialogue useless

[@Next2Null]

​@@DirkDiggler-p5q Overpaying for something you're probably going to break is stupid no matter how much money you have. And if you're more worried about protecting your bike, than you are about learning, you're going to be a noob forever. Ignorant ass comment🤡

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

Be it a car or a bike, they only have so much value, to me. Yes, collectability, desirability, performance etc. plays a part in pricing and that's all well and good, but if I just want something to ride or drive, I keep my budget very well in check. Whether we like it or not, bikes fall over. They also get stolen, some at a rate far greater than others, and they can also be subject to eyewatering repair bills... enough to write off the bike in some instances. My most recent bike, a W800, only cost me $5k Usd. I don't need anymore bike than that, so why would I throw and extra $25k at one, to impress you? No thanks. Paid cash and I have literally got the difference invested well enough that it's earning enough to cover a lot of my annual running costs.

[@SummitCoyote]

I do think you are seeing a lot more interest in the smaller motorcycle segment because people are looking for motorcycles as transportation instead of toys at a higher rate. It's mostly driven by the price of cars these days. I've seen more small motorcycles and scooters in the last couple years than ever. and those are very utilitarian vehicles. It's why I bought my first motorcycle in the first place. I needed a cheap reliable way to commute. CFMoto gave me that. There's definitely a shift in the type of person that's buying motorcycles and the reasons they're buying motorcycles which definitely explains a good chunk of the shift in the types of motorcycles being purchased. There's nothing necessarily wrong with being a premium brand or only selling expensive items but you do run the risk of being out of reach for too many people in the market especially during times of economic stress like we've had in the last several years. Also I don't actually think that a lot of the technology that's on bikes now actually costs the manufacturer that much. in fact due to scale things like TFT dashes are probably actually cheaper than analog gauges to produce but it gives the manufacturer and excuse to raise the price because the average consumer doesn't know that.

[@Eclispestar]

have you seen the explosion in Electric assist bicycles. No endorsement required and they can get zippy around town. 3k new

[@SummitCoyote]

@@Eclispestar oh definitely. a motorcycle is even more useful and smaller bikes can easily keep pace on the highway too which e-bikes cant do. theres definitely place for both. i just see all of this getting more popular

[@yamaharider8014]

I've owned a number of bikes, and my current ride is a Burgman 200 scooter that I bought new 1yr ago. I'm a retired semi driver, and at 70mpg/80mph I can ride all day for a few bucks. Big underseat storage, ABS front and rear.......

[@SummitCoyote]

@yamaharider8014 the burgman is awesome.

[@danconnolly2341]

@@Eclispestar They are out there for sure.

[@Michael_Obando]

New rider here and coming over from the drag racing scene. Bought a 2019 Indian FTR Race Replica for $9500 with 1.3k miles. it came with a tune, aftermarket mirrors, rear fender delete, upgraded grips and sliders. It was $17k brand new. Why would I buy new when there’s so much better value buying used?!

[@mrpoizun]

Because when it's new, no one else has beaten the shit out of it before you got it!

[@omgitsabloodyandroid5161]

Harley - last years technology at next year’s price.

[@BIKELIFEAP]

Most u serrated comment M8 engine man, makes way more power Suzuki owner: yeah ooookkaaaayyyy 😅

[@justletmecomment6453]

​@@BIKELIFEAPIs the m8 still an air cooled, overweight tractor in decades old frames? Yes it is.

[@super16g123]

That doesn't apply to the revmax bikes.

[@repeatinfinite_]

​@@justletmecomment6453congrats you just described a cruiser!!

[@starrider1900]

​@justletmecomment6453 The M8 CVO is a liquid cooled motor

[@blandrooker6541]

In my opinion, the issue is actually part and parcel of the overall economy. Sure, the macro numbers look good, (unemployment, GDP, job creation, falling inflation numbers compared to the rest of the world etc.) but the reality for millions of us is that the number one driver of inflation nationwide is the cost of housing and rentals. When real estate corporations are buying up millions of properties, using the same algorithms from the same companies to set prices (and are being sued by several states for essentially price fixing), forcing people to pay over 50% of take home just to have a roof over their heads, PEOPLE DON'T HAVE MONEY TO BUY MOTORCYCLES, let alone the basics of living. Car sales are down overall, food companies have resorted to shrinkflation to boost their profits, fast food companies are offering actual value meals because they know the vast majority of people don't have the same disposable income they had last year. It's not a failing of any motorcycle manufacturer, the root cause is that people are broke.

[@tjzulu1]

That's bullsh**!!! I've been riding Harley Davidsons for 60 years now and have owned 43 different motorcycles 6 of which have been Harley's. Beginning in the mid '70's they began raising their prices while every other manufacturer was selling their bikes at reasonable prices Harley Davidson began over charging for their motorcycles and have never looked back....while all the other motorcycle manufacturers except BMW and Ducati still sell their motorcycles at reasonable prices!!!

[@blandrooker6541]

@@tjzulu1 Did you listen to the part where Spite went over the numbers for KTM and others as well? No, it's not just HD, consumer spending for major purchases across the board in every category is down. Case in point, I went by my local motorcycle shop, and they were dismayed that their sales were so much lower this year than last, and they sell KTM, Suzuki, Kawi, Honda, GasGas and CanAm. ALL of their brands weren't moving off the floor. So no, not bullshit, just the ability to think beyond the horizon. When people have less money, duh, they spend less, it's not rocket surgery.

[@tjzulu1]

@@blandrooker6541 yeah…it is bullsh**!! You actually expect me to believe people aren’t buying a $55 thousand dollar CVO Road Glide because they don’t have the money??? Sorry pal…no motorcycle Harley Davidson makes should cost over $27 K at the most…same for every other manufacturer including BMW Ducati, Aprilia and all the rest…it’s absolutely delusional to think otherwise…they are not worth that money….

[@blandrooker6541]

@@tjzulu1 That may be true, but if you were actually paying attention, you would notice that Spite IS NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT HD. Man, you give us old people a bad name.

[@tjzulu1]

@ don’t get too awfully bent bro…it’s just my opinion….

[@robertcabrera6232]

Great video! I'm 60 years old and have been riding since I was 15. I have owned dozens of bikes over the years. That said, I haven't bought a brand new bike since the mid '80s. I learned some tough lessons back then in my 20s. First, motorcycles are recreational vehicles that should never be anyone's primary every day transportation. Second, they are extremely poor investments that depreciate much too rapidly, so they should never be financed because there are much better uses for money and credit. One can have a great time riding and not spend a lot of money on the bikes themselves by treating motorcycling as a hobby not a mode of transportation. So for the last 30 years I've only purchased bikes that I could afford with cash. This means bikes that are at least 10 plus years old that are heavily depreciated. If I get into an accident requiring expensive repairs or experience expensive mechanical issues I just strip the bike for parts and sell them to cut my losses. Or when I get tired of a particular bike and want another one that has caught my eye I can usually sell it for close to what I paid for it or more since I originally bought it fully depreciated.

[@steelrolex]

Very intelligent points!

[@TarRawls]

As Colonel William Travis supposedly told Davie Crocket at the Alamo, "the facts are often brutal". Having been riding since 1967 & made my living as a motorcycle mechanic for 40+ years, i've seen the rise & fall of the motorcycle market first hand. You presented the facts very well, as well as the pulse of the riders. Love them central Texas roads! We've got a couple out here in the Big Bend,,,,

[@walterrojas1075]

Harley is crazy. I went yesterday to check out a rebel 500 for my wife’s first bike. They didn’t have the one I specifically called about. I asked about another Rebel they had, but they were pushing a Nightster really hard. Told them I’m not dropping $14k on a first bike. For the other Rebel, they were asking $5.5k+fees and TTL for a total of $7k after it was all said and done. Told them I can pick up a brand new one with warranty for $7.5k, but they were still pushing a nightster. Used market isn’t much better. All Rebel 500s are starting around $5.5k for a 2019, I’d rather spend a little more and not bother with somebody else’s mods that need to be removed.

[@SteveySwidz]

We just sold my wifes 23 Rebel 500 ABS (400 miles) + extended warranty for $6.2k in New Jersey. Pristine shape. She ended up bogarting the GSX8R, so I picked up a 24 MT09 SP for myself. Her biggest complaint was overall confortability after 2 hours. Everything from the hard seat to needing a windscreen. Not really worth investing into that bike, so we reached a compromise. It's a great bike where the speed limit is 45, but if you are cruising around on the weekends for hours - need more creature comforts. Especially when seat time is needed for exp.

[@kugangles9860]

I'd get a Rebel 1100 one hundred times over a Nightster and you'll save $5k doing so.

[@pinecone76]

Why did you go to a Harley dealer to pick up a Honda bike? For the first one , buy used off of FB marketplace or CL. And no, they are not full of scammers; you just have to spend time to filter through the ads. If you don’t have time for that, well, this is why dealers charge what they do …

[@wyvern4588]

I bought a Nightster as a first bike and I love it, however, it cost too damn much, I didn't fit on a Rebel, the Indian had poor rear suspension and the Triumph needs a $1000 shock for me to ride because I'm 300lbs, and the bike stock tops out at 270lbs. I'm a moron, but I will just keep it and enjoy it.

[@walterrojas1075]

@@SteveySwidz the plan is to keep her on this for a year then get her something else if she ends up liking it. We won’t be driving across the state, maybe 45 minutes one way. After that she can decide what kind of rider she is. I was pushing her towards an MT03, but she said Rebel feels better, so Rebel it is.

[@drewp.wiener1205]

11:30 - I'm glad you said that - because I was going to. Harley's aren't on an island by themselves (when compared with other touring bikes - they're all in the same ballpark) - being a biker is expensive. It's considered a luxury expense - and it definitely is starting to be a complete luxury. And not just bikes, but gear, insurance, shop time and maintenance - it's all crazy. I love my bikes - but the industry itself is making it very difficult to continue with the sport/hobby and nearly impossible for new riders to get in. It's not appropriate to browbeat Harley for this - it's an industry issue.

[@cranedaddy678]

Lifelong rider here 25+ years riding currently. I 100% agree with your points. I'd like to add that the EPA and other BS government regulations are making manufacturers "upgrade" the newer models to something buyers don't want. I wouldn't say I'm anti tech, but tech on a bike is absolutely not any kind of a selling point for me. I like fuel injection and ABS. That's it, and I absolutely 100% don't HAVE TO HAVE either. Harley has always been over priced.

[@motorcyclemichael2182]

Ditto 😊

[@kandrews1960]

I'm the odd-ball duck. I've been riding Royal Enfields for over 20 years and have seen them steadily improve. Just picked up a 2024 Bullet 350 and love it; it is inexpensive to purchase, easy to maintain and is a joy for this old man to ride. Parts are and will continue to be easy to get. Not a fan of CF Moto, only because of the potential headache of getting parts years down the road.

[@Short_Bus]

When quote unquote beginner bikes are getting up to around 7k to 8k out the door, that's going to stifle the beginner market. Harley is way overpriced for what they are their margins are insane.

[@Ntmoffi]

There's a lot of good beginner bikes in the $4000-$6000 range too. Pretty good prices for brand new. Harley doesn't even come close on this. If you wanna start on a Harley you're gonna have to buy used. UNLESS you're money bags McGee.

[@Short_Bus]

@Ntmoffi This true. But I've had a couple of friends who have bought some of those cheaper beginner bikes. They refuse to get on the highway because they can not safely keep up.

[@Eclispestar]

for a beginner bike a good old Rebel 250. for 1800$ is a great place to start. ask me how i know...

[@Ntmoffi]

@@Short_Bus which bikes were those?

[@Short_Bus]

@Ntmoffi 1 was the klx230. My other friend got an Enfield 350 classic. Both guys are average size Americans weighing around 200 lb. Mind you, these are still $5k plus bikes and considered budget-friendly. These things are absolute turtles on the highway. In my area, speed limits get up to around 70 Mi per hour. These struggle to get over 65. I've even seen a salesman at a Honda dealer talk a woman out of buying a rebel 300 because she was going to commute back and forth to work. And said if you had a headwind with that bike, you're dropping to 60 MPH all day. He said to spend the extra money and get the 500. Now, if you're doing roads that don't go over 55 mph on a consistent basis, I can see these bikes being a viable option. But where I live, no.

[@kugangles9860]

You mean $40,000 motorcycles with last centuries tech aren't popular in this economy? Who would have guessed. Certainly not HD.

[@mrpoizun]

They are popular. That's their best-selling bikes!

[@MadTPot]

I started in 2005 on a 96 CBR600F, then "upgraded" to a 93 Kwak Zephyr 1100, took a 10 year break and when I got my current job brought a 07 SV650 for transport. After a whike I swapped that for a 21 Trident 660. The Trident had ride by wire, TC, ABS, Bluetooth and inbuilt nav, it was a good bike, never let me down, but I never felt as connected to it as I did the SV. In September, I raided the savings account and changed to a 15 Harley Fat Bob 103 Twin Cam, that has, erm... ABS... analogue dial, a few scratches that need to be cut and polished out, needed new tyres and a bit of cable work here and there but only had 5k miles on it. It was from an indy dealer not a HD one. It's transport on work days and a toy on my days off. Love riding it even on the few 5 degree morning commutes I've had this year (thats about 40F). The total price of that bike was double the Trident but I couldn't be happier. I feel much more connected to the bike. Hoping it's going to last me. Even thinking down the line I might get an Evo Sportster for a "little" second bike. (Here in the UK a 1200cc is not usually considered little.) I tried a newer model, something about it wasn't the same. I would not consider buying a brand new bike. Second hand every time.

[@aussiebloke609]

I think some motorcycle segments have become too specialized. In Sydney when I was young (and how I hate to start the sentence off that way!) in the '80s, there were dirt and road/trail bikes, naked sports-tourers like the Honda CB750 and Suzuki GS750 (or even a GT750!), and the comparatively rare (and rather expensive) full tour package like a BMW K100 (cops) or Goldwing. And that all I recall seeing much of regularly. Yes, there was the occasional Ducati bevel-drive SS-900, and a plethora of 250cc beginner bikes in both 2- and 4-stroke, but for main, this was it. Now there's all these other categories, supersports with a full fairing and tucked riding position...cruisers (which barely existed in Australia back then - if you wanted to cruise, a GS850G was your bike of choice, and HD usually fell apart because of the extremes of temp, dust and bad roads)...adventure bikes (seemingly a weird cross between a K100 and a Dual-Sport bike)...and retro-naked and factory cafe bikes, which are probably the closest thing to the old sports-tourer, but not quite as practical. it's harder to choose a bike today, as none really feel like a generic "it does nothing perfectly, but does most things reasonably competently" sort of bike - important when you can only afford to keep one bike in the garage. And they all cost too much for what's essentially a toy - in most of the US at least, the weather makes a motorcycle impractical for year-round riding, so they're not a car replacement out here (unlike they were in Sydney where the temp never drops below freezing...my first 5 years of bike ownership were a time when I had to car, and not even license to drive a car.) Anyway, that's my rant on the topic - and don't even get me started about the current crop of insectoid bike styling. I suspect there's many older people (those who can actually afford to buy a bike in this day and age) who just don't want something that looks so preposterously cartoonish. But that's my opinion - thus only of value to me. 😁

[@scottlitherland855]

I have 2 Royal Enfields in my garage right now 12k total for both...a bullet 350 and a shotgun 650....why? Warranty, road side assistance, basic and easy to wrench on...but have fuel injection ...BASIC is the reason for my purchase, tired of tech...went basic , back when I started riding 45 years ago.

[@lanceoliver5769]

Glad we can continue to inspire your "op eds," Spite, with our coverage over at Common Tread at RevZilla. Also, I'm personally living evidence of your point about people holding on to motorcycles longer. My "new" motorcycle is 10 years old and the average mileage on my personal motorcycles is now north of 80,000 miles!

[@spitescorner]

Thanks for stopping by! Looking forward to your next one. And man it takes some serious loving to keep a bike on the road that long, if resurrecting Vmax is anything to go by.

[@markhingst5368]

Buying used bikes and riding the shit out them then selling to buy another 5-20 year old bike without even loosing money is one my biggest motorcycle joys. You can experience so much more of whats out there without being tied to a hectic loan plan and savage insurance costs. My next new bike will probably be a Ducati 450 enduro when they hit the market because why the f not since I have the disposable income. Of course I will continue buying and selling other bikes in the stable because I will never have enough room to store them all and not about to pay registration fees on dozens of bikes at the same time.

[@langhamp8912]

I've had lots of good luck in buying newish bikes that are owned by a rich professional who already owns half a dozen bikes. I personally will only buy bikes that have ABS/TC because I do ride in some pretty crummy weather so that somewhat limits my options, but there seems to be some point with most bikes that you can buy one, ride it for a few years, then sell it with not much loss except the transaction cost. Still, bikes do require somewhat expensive maintenance, mostly tires. It will never be a cheap hobby.

[@bratwurststattsucuk4517]

God bless, im two years on my probation and think of getting a sx1000 or a hayabusa as a second bike, ofc a used one. ride safe yall🎉

[@markhingst5368]

@langhamp8912 yup 100% the best deals come from the most affluent suburbs where a rich bloke bought it off the showroom floor and put 3500km on it in the first 5 years and just accepts its devalued 😁

[@langhamp8912]

@@markhingst5368 I'm vaguely disturbed (I live in the US) with how most motorcycle sellers are either 1. badly maintained bike with a loan on it, 2. expensive bike that's part of a stable. There used to be a big middle class of motorcycle owners but now it's all loans or rich dudes. Strangely reflective of our society...

[@markhingst5368]

@langhamp8912 interesting, have not noticed this trend in Australia. New riders here don't typically rush out and buy an S1000 or R1M on loan they generally pick up a cheap 2nd hand LAMS approved bike and work their way up til they have the experience and the cash to buy their dream bike.

[@HDFXSB645]

My brother bought a brand new Road Glide ST last year. He's financially married to that bike now. Interest rates have gone up since then, and he's put over 20,000 miles on it already. He wouldn't even be able to sell it for what he owes on it. I can't remember the exact price out the door that he paid, but his monthly payment is almost $700, with great credit.

[@sicsempertyrannis4104]

Yep, I work with a guy that drops nearly $900 a month payment on a “top of the line every option” HD. Decisions like that make me seriously question him being a “Competent Man”

[@HDFXSB645]

What makes it worse, we live in Wisconsin. So for several months he's making that payment while the bike is covered up and tucked away in the garage lol

[@ChadWinters]

@@HDFXSB645 at least he put 20k on it, I’m always shocked by the number of 25k Harleys with less than 1000 miles per year on them.

[@sicsempertyrannis4104]

@ jfc 😅

[@DirkDiggler-p5q]

You fools always fail to factor in the fun factor. If your brother has 20K miles on it. He really likes it. He is getting his monies worth.

[@anthonyf3200]

Definitely because they're so expensive. Like, I was super excited about the announcement of the Tiger Sport 800 as a VFR800 replacement, but an MSRP of $13k with bags? Even a Verysys 650 sits OVER $10k. I remember the Versys being like.. just over $7k, and the new ones are for sure not worth $3k more. That's why I'm looking at smaller and smaller bikes to meet my needs. I started on a CB750, might be looking at the CB500X if the Honda 500 is really strong enough for ~80mph express lane commuting.

[@county_bear9509]

Yes, the 500 is strong enough for 80 and several examples have exceeded 100k miles. She will be a little buzzy, but my 400 was plenty comfortable doing 80 for extended periods of time.

[@Bobsentme1]

Harley Davidson dealerships in South East Michigan are a joke. They're asking $25,000 for $15,000 bikes. When you complain, they lower the price to $22,500. Meanwhile, Indian Dealerships are selling bikes at reasonable prices, without all the break downs and gremlins that Harleys come with. If you're in South East Michigan, don't buy a harley. You're being ripped off.

[@richardpants9462]

I love all the used bikes they overpaid on during covid trade-ins. Now, they're listing them for sale at 130% of the actual used retail value.

[@RetNavyChiefBTC]

I used to live in SE Michigan, agree. But trust me on this. I did a 6000 mile ride across the US in May. The dealership experience sucks most everywhere now!

[@paleroller]

Great video…I also think dealers are killing new motorcycle sales. Here in Arizona, if you walk into a dealership because of an advertised price of $5k, you aren’t walking out with that bike for less than $7.5k (unless you found the golden egg dealership). That’s a 50% increase. And it happens at the Harley dealerships, as well…always about $2-3k in fees (not to mention additional bullshit warranties and service plans). For most people, motorcycles are NOT the primary transportation. So it doesn’t make sense to eat all those fees and expenses, when the used market is so accessible these days.

[@rogerthedodger5788]

Here in England the price on the bike in the dealership or any bike shop is the price you pay. The only additional cost is road tax £130 a year for over 600cc. They kill you on servicing though.

[@criose]

The short answer is yes, the motorcycle market is over priced right now. Not many brands have a good entry level bike to offer to the masses. Here in Canada Honda doesn't offer us the new shadow line, even though many people have had a shadow here in the past as a great starting bike.

[@cwakeley01]

Let’s not forget the cost of money. People don’t like high interest rates on toys.

[@jasong546]

I just ride my road glide and not worry about this stuff and I am not alone. I saw more Harley’s on central Florida roads today than I can count. Analysis is great but it doesn’t change my motorcycling day.

[@TimRHillard]

The rest of the world use motorcycles as actual transportation. The last four years have wiped out so many people’s discretionary income in the USA for their recreational bikes. But, in the future sometime sooner than later gas is going to get more expensive, like allot more and not just because some wayward politicians want it to. We will actually start to run out. Motorcycle sales will go crazy here then.

[@PhilthyHorseRacing]

I think Harley looks at themselves as the Ferrari/Porsche of motorcycles (they aren't). They think the brand itself sells itself and that brand recognition justifies not only the high price but the seemingly refusal to innovate

[@m.f.m.67]

Zeitz thinks they are the Ferrari of motorcycles. He's delusional.

[@bloodspartan300]

​@@m.f.m.67joch is an idiot, ducati is the ferrari of motorcycles...

[@mikescombatgames]

As someone who’s first (and so far, only) motorcycle is a Buddy 125 scooter, this rings true for me. When I wanted to learn to ride I initially set price expectations based on Amazon. Then, when doing my research, I realized I didn’t want anything I could buy on there. I bought my Buddy because a) it was cheap, b) I could do everything on it, meaning I could ride for cheap (I learned my mechanic skills from KZbin and knew I wanted a carbureated bike specifically so I didn’t have to go to a shop, meaning I could save more money), and c) it had amazing gas mileage, meaning I could spend less there, too. The common theme? I bought a small displacement bike that was easy to work on and sipped gas because I’m CHEAP. (…and if I wasn’t, my wife is.) Do I want a $10k bike? No. I’ll take a $200 big bore kit on my $2500 scooter and get myself up fast enough that highways are safer and long rides are easier on my engine, please and thank you. Do I want an ECU tune? No need. I’ll buy a transmission upgrade instead for $250. I’m with you. Where the heck are the cheaper bikes? Some of us just want to have fun and commute. We don’t all need 600-1400cc with traction control, ABS, cruise, and Bluetooth. Besides, with spare income levels falling like a rock, how the hell are new riders going to get in to the hobby?

[@feloniousmonk3049]

Bought a 2 year old BMW R1250 RT, with some aftermarket stuff (lights) with 2,000 miles on it and a current full service, for about $12000 less than what it all would have cost me, brand new. I don't care what the bike is worth when I want to sell it, I hope to have another 40-60k miles on it in the next 10 years.

[@sandgroper1970]

Australian, so Harley prices are eye watering, the only ones not are the Harley X models (Chinese made for Harley ?) new starting at $9000. Something like the Sportster / Nightster start from $22000. Harley Low Rider ST from $38000 . Brand new Honda Rebel is $10500. With interests rates high and general high grocery prices , people may not buy into a motor bike ( especially with licence restrictions you need to ride for 2 years before you are allowed a bike larger than 650cc).

[@mickcarr498]

You're buying from the wrong dealership... Just picked up a brand new (Oct 2024 model ) 117 Low Rider S for $26,000, the ST was about $3k more more but I prefer the 117 S

[@rhettmartin6527]

I agree. I just got back into riding now my kids are a little older. I bought a 2014 Moto Guzzi California Touring. It's a fully loaded bike that had 3k miles on it, and I got it for under $7k. A new comparable bike would be $20k and $27k for the Harley brand. I have traction control, riding modes, and abs.

[@mrpoizun]

Who cares if you've got abs? We've all got them.

[@TimRHillard]

If you are decent with a wrench, or know someone who is, you can always find a very good used bike that the owner “didn’t ride as much as they thought they would”. You want that mechanical knowledge so you don’t buy a POS.

[@ADingoTookMyDasco]

We don't have the same level of data here in Australia because a number of brands don't report their sales figures. But, if you look on a dealerships used bike lot, browse through the classifieds & Facebook marketplace, or just look at motorcycles on the street you'll see a similar pattern here. And the sentiment is spot on. I have a significant number of IRL rider friends & only 1 has bought an expensive new motorcycle recently, but he's the cliche of being in an executive position & is nearing retirement. Everyone else has either new & cheap or used & cool/interesting. But the US really needs to pull its finger out. Here in Australia motorcycles make up 5.7% of all passenger vehicle registrations & over 10% of licensed drivers are motorcycle license holders. If the US had similar numbers, registered motorcycles would almost double to just under 16 million. And the Grom wasn't Honda Australia's biggest seller because we had the CB125F, which was almost $1,000 AUD cheaper....

[@mikeskidmore6754]

I paid $4,500.00 for a 2008 Buell Ulysess in 2022. It had 15,300 miles on it. I have replaced the tires, lubed all cables changed fluids and adjusted the clutch .. Also had a rear wheel bearing failure and spent $750.00 on an upgraded rear wheel with 3 larger wheel bearings instead of two small ones with the axle and spacer kit. On a Curve it blows by Harleys like they are sitting still and it's faster than most of them with only 74 cubes in a straight line .

[@solidsnake2665]

Brand new bikes are getting up there. I almost bought the XSR900 last year. I went with a dual sport instead. Getting a used XSR sounds like a great idea.

[@jps8941]

And you bring up another interesting point, do we need that technology on the motorcycle or can we just go old school. I've been having that debate with myself having mostly old school motorcycles. I guess it comes down to what you're going to do with the motorcycle, if you're just riding for a couple hours old school is fine but if you're going to put 8 to 10 hours on a bike in a day trying to get somewhere or on a tour for a month or longer, I believe that technology makes the mile crunching a lot easier and enjoyable. That's why motorcycles are so cool because it's all about you and what exactly you're going to do with it It all comes down to your personal choice.

[@bobnoxious719]

Too much tech sucks the fun out of motorcycling

[@jdecker9834]

All good points but the one that is the real killer imho is the dealership fees and markups. Add in tax and you're looking at over 30% of the damn MSRP of the bike added to your OTD cost. It's greedy and ridiculous. And, they have the nerve to add ALL those fees to a USED bike! Private sale used is the way to go.

[@anubhavroy2309]

The easy answer is that people can't afford expensive bikes or multiple bikes, so they are not buying anything built for one task. A sport bike or cruiser is not versatile enough. You want something which would serve multiple itches at once. Hence middle weight Naked bikes is the way to go.

[@JessicaSimonson1976]

Come on I took my sports bike off road of 6 miles of trail to get to another road....it can be done but gotta go slow.

[@kimhorton6109]

I have a 2015 Goldwing that I drive everywhere unless what I need to carry is too big or it’s raining. It has 85k miles and takes me to the grocery store, the library or out for a hike. Versatile is what it’s all about.

[@yamaharider8014]

I'm riding a Burgman 200 that I bought new 1yr ago. I'm a retired semi driver, and at 70mpg/80mph the scoot makes sense. And it has many premium features too, ABS front/rear, storage.....

[@kimhorton6109]

@ I was camping at Fort Davis in Texas some years ago and two 60+ old guys pulled in to the campsite with Burgmans pulling little camping trailers. They were from the far side of Dallas and were having the time of their life. It’s a good scoot with lots of luggage room and plenty of power for any traffic.

[@jwaller1327]

The price of bikes has increased at a rate higher than wages in the time that I've been a motorcycle consumer. When I began with motorcycles, premium sport bikes were priced right at about $10 per cc. A top of the line 600 cost around $6,000 and a liter bike was at around $10,000. There were plenty of affordable, though not top tier bikes between $3,000 and $6,000. Now bikes like the Transalp seem like a screaming deal at around $10,000. So price is one reason for a decrease in new motorcycle registration growth. As far as changes in market trends, simple observations for those who pay attention verify what your graphs show. Twenty-plus years ago, cruisers and supersport bikes were all the rage. All the Japanese manufacturers were making Harley-styled v-twin cruisers. The Harley seemed to be the aspiration of all motorcyclists, at least that's what the popular opinion seemed to be. I don't know how many people asked me when I was going to "upgrade" to a Harley, when I was on Kawasaki and/or Triumph sport bikes. Amongst the seas of Harley and Harley-esque bikes were flocks of supersports. ADV bikes were virtually unheard of and dual sports were a rarity. There were lots of trucks with dirt bikes in the bed and motocross was popular, probably more than it is now. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Harley go under in my lifetime. A few years ago, they had a CEO who seemed to be investing in the future, wanting to diversify the brand and appeal to a younger (less well-heeled) demographic. There was talk of small displacement and sporty Harleys, more affordable bikes, etc. But that CEO got canned and replaced by a CEO who said the company was going to focus on legacy and premium bikes. So they have legacy customers with deep pockets. But they're doing nothing to attract a different customer. The Pan America is a step in the right direction, but it's too expensive. There are also too many other brands making an arguably better product, so I don't see Harley attracting new customers like that. I saw a video with some folks on Pan Americas talking about how if Harley didn't make that bike that they never would have tried riding off road. Stupid. What a horrible bike to begin riding in the dirt for the first time!! Anyway, that's who's buying the Pan America. I live in Bandera, TX. Lots of biker rallies here and the Three Sisters ride is in the area. I see a lot of groups ride through here. Trikes used to be a rarity. They are catching up. I live in a camp ground and recently, at the last major rally, there were more trikes than bikes. Of the bikes, there were almost as many Indians as Harleys. The Harley trikes outnumbered the Harley bikes. Before long I wouldn't be surprised if Harley sold more brand new trikes than bikes. I believe that shows that Harley riders are beginning to age out. They're doing absolutely nothing to attract a younger group of riders. They clearly show they don't care about a younger generation of riders and the younger generation of riders have no reason to care what happens to Harley Davidson.

[@phantomarbiter176]

9:39 I think it’s important to distinguish between supersport sales and supersport registrations. This is anecdotal, but it seems to me like if theres any kind of bike someone would buy and not register it’s a supersport 9 times out of 10. Seems like a lot of diehard supersport fans would rather say “F insurance, F a plate, I wasn’t gonna stop for cops anyhow” Edit: point 2: you also dont need to register it if it’s a track only weapon

[@spitescorner]

I thought that too but you also can't count those numbers so it's hard to say for sure. Without hard numbers it's just guess work.

[@kevincrockett5155]

I’m curious. Percentage wise, how many buyers do you think didn’t register their bikes? This is something I haven’t thought of.

[@phantomarbiter176]

@@spitescorner That's true, I think my main point was that it affects supersports way more than any other kind. Just a caveat I figured was worth mentioning.

[@SocialRegressive]

I bought my first motorcycle last year, choosing a 2018 Kawasaki Versys-X 300 for a variety reasons: affordable price, beginner-friendly manners, long maintenance intervals, and flexible uses. But one thing I determined beforehand is that no matter what I bought, I wanted it to be simple and old-school in a way. No TFT display, no automatic transmission, no rider modes, and no other tricks or gizmos. Not just because of the added expenses, but because I felt like they would take away from the riding experience, not add to it. The bikes you mentioned that are on the rise are EXACTLY the kinds of bikes I want.

[@Juergen732]

The number one reason I don't ride a Harley is because I don't want to look like a fool having bought into their stupid culture.

[@ellwoodwolf]

I can get a more reliable, more comfortable, more tech and faster, for less money.... Ohhhhh tough choice.....

[@MrDoyle07]

So you prefer to look like a fool by being an insulting ass with no self respect.

[@robvanduren761]

Im 58 and i have never ridden a Harley. Maybe curiosity will get the better of me one day.

[@machupikachu1085]

@@robvanduren761 Stick with Indian. You'll be happier.

[@TimRHillard]

I am old like a fossil. I don’t need all the wizbang BS they put on bikes these days. Give me a good bike with decent brakes, reliable engine, throttle, brakes, manual transmission and speedometer. I don’t even need a damned gas gauge. Oh, and I don’t want to contort like a trapeze artist to sit on it, or need some stilts to touch the ground. Carburetor is even better, I can rebuild those.

[@metcruza5536]

The Sportster was a great seller for HD. They radically changed it and now it doesn't sell....customers have spoken. If HD had an $8k entry bike like the old 883 Euro 5 it'd sell. They've given this market to Indian.

[@super16g123]

That bike was 11k it's final year.

[@frankfurther3828]

@@super16g123 gasp

[@mrpoizun]

In what way? The new Sportster and Scout look nearly identically ugly.

[@metcruza5536]

@@mrpoizun 1st you cant even call the new sportster a sportster and sorry at least the Indian has some retro cruiser look

[@dbwgoblue74]

The only reason I bought my 2016 Harley-Davidson Switchback two years ago was because the dealership marked it down to $8500 as part of their end-of-year clearance sale. As much as I love that bike, I don't ever see myself purchasing a brand-new Harley-Davidson.

[@peterholthoffman]

Back in the 1970s, there was a logical progression for riders that started at a fairly reasonable price (around $3,400). To use some Honda models as examples - a rider could start on an SL-70 before he could even get a license but then ride it on the street, once he had a license. From there he could go to an SL-125, then an XL-250 or even an SL-350. By then, he was an experienced rider and would probably buy many more motorcycles over the years. Unlike cruisers and sportbikes, those bikes were versatile. I rode my XL-250 through mud up to the bash plate and also went on a week-long moto-camping trip covering hundreds of miles. One thing then was that teenagers had jobs. We needed transportation to get to work to earn the money to buy the transportation. Do teenagers have jobs anymore? Another thing is that the 55 mph speed limit actually worked in our favor. One guy I knew rode his Kawasaki 100 G4TR from Columbia SC to Hilton Head on the Interstate. In our opinion, he was pushing things, but it didn't seem crazy. Today, that could be close to a death sentence. We need more bikes that are 650 or smaller that cost good bit less than $11,000 (the original MSRP of the 1969 Honda CB750 was $1,495 which is ~$11,000 in today's money) AND there needs to be a logical progression for a rider as he goes from being 15 to 25.

[@johnweisYamaroler]

My first Harley was a '73 FX for $2400 out the door. I

[@justletmecomment6453]

Teenagers absolutely do have jobs, they're just not making enough to buy even a good used Harley. The Japanese market absolutely is catering to the exact class of bike you described, and those sell very well.

[@peterholthoffman]

@@justletmecomment6453 a used Harley was very much beyond our dreams as teens in the ‘70s. The first bike I bought was a 1971 BSA Victor 500 B-50T. That was in 1973 and it was by far the biggest bike any of us owned. The next closest was an SL-350.

[@cambc9730]

Do teenagers still have jobs today? No. Most teenagers just watch their TikToks and play their Mario games. Honestly I have never seen a 25+ at work anyways. They are all at college learning about Gender Bender Theory and how to dye their hair blue. Not enough time for them to ride HAWGS.

[@sapper199M]

Just bought a used 2013 R1 with 12k miles. Has crg levers, a dyno tune , power commander 5, zero gravity screen , lightech block off plates , tucked led turn signals, integrated rear brake and led light and hi flow air filter for 8500. Why would I ever buy new at the msrps they have now

[@santiagocercavins]

Long live pre owned Hondas !!!! And enjoy the road !

[@drewt.4353]

Motos are too expensive but you get what you pay for. Would rather not have tft and phone connectivity, just what's necessary and some safety features like abs and traction. They know if they give us options, some would just go bare bones and update as necessary. My phone mount is my GPS, added a cheap usb port and ambient temp gauge. Just helped a coworker get her first bike and journey to MSF, she'll probably upgrade in a year or two.

[@thomasfrederick3464]

You know what Harley needs? ANOTHER $50k bike

[@jordanlabre]

Ive got a zx14, gen 1 vmax, gen 2 vmax,vulcan 1700,crf450r,yz250,yz125 all for the than a New a new street glide 😅 what are you taking??

[@Masse24796]

I thought there would be more bikes on the road in the USA, in Germany we got 4,9 milion bikes registered . But, according to a stat site, in 2007 it were 5,9 milion. In 2008 the number of bikes dipped down to 3,5 and grew back steadily

[@larryechols6606]

I’m 64 years old and I’ve been riding since I was 5 years old and purchased a new Moto Guzzi V100 Mandello S in December 2023 and it was an expensive purchase. I purchased it because it’s my finishing motorcycle that I’ll ride until I’m no longer able to ride. It’s an awesome motorcycle, and it’s much more affordable than a Harley-Davidson, but it’s still very expensive for the average person.

[@freeride6073]

Lovely bike

[@larryechols6606]

@@freeride6073 Thank you!

[@tymobyrne4451]

Im 65 and needed a new Harley this year. So i took the money a new Harley would cost and bought a 6x12 cargo trailer, a new xsr900, new 300L, and a new 421 Kodiak. I still had some Hardly money left over for new lid and cold weather kit....best Harley i never bought...lol

[@mrpoizun]

So you bought a bunch of crap and didn't get your Harley. Smart.

[@TheSunMoon]

In Singapore, HD bikes cost around SGD upwards of 70k. A BMW GS cost SGD 85k or so. 😢 This totally sucks.. Even my new 2023 Honda CB400X (aka CB500X elsewhere) cost SGD 26k 😢

[@maxxbenzz7842]

😮

[@miamiwood]

I am proof of what you say. I am about to purchase my first bike. I was looking at a Triumph (T100 or T120), but out the door $13K or more! I can get a freshly used & modded T120 for around $7K. I think Triumph was smart to come out with the Speed 400 for $5K & I see new ones selling for $4K now. That is a bike I was seriously considering. They will be attracting new riders at that price point who will then move up to their more expensive bikes. In contrast, I looked (briefly) at a Honda Rebel...Almost $9K out the door and ABS is optional! The Moto Guzzi V7 competes well with the Triumph and can be had new for $6-7K + dealer fees (which are ridiculous BTW...almost $2K), but still very nice bike for the money. Then I looked at Royal Enfield. Yes, they are not made as well as a Honda or Triumph, but still quite nice. I found a '22 Classic 350 with 750 miles for $3250 out the door. Beautiful bike that I can mod and work on myself. Yes, apples to oranges comparison (in HP), but for a nearly new bike at less then half of a used Triumph or new Moto Guzzi, that is very appealing. Just my $0.02.

[@machupikachu1085]

Get the RE. You will drop it, scrape it up, and learn on it. Plus, you are probably not 100% sure what kind of riding you are into quite yet. You may switch to touring, dual sport, track days, or even supermoto. Getting the Enfield will give you the experience, and you will probably be able to sell it for close to what you purchased it for. Cheers!

[@Dragon.Slayer.]

What year is the VMAX? I have an 85 that I'm working on getting running

[@spitescorner]

98. Took a lot of work to get it this close to rideable. It's a bit sketchy, but I have a high tolerance for sketchiness.

[@Dragon.Slayer.]

@spitescorner nice! Biggest issues I have with mine are old tires, headset bearings that need to be greased and it doesn't want to idle... Most likely need to go through the carbs

[@spitescorner]

They're probably out of sync or clogged. I don't have any good advice there. I took my carbs in to an expert.

[@Dragon.Slayer.]

@@spitescorner that's what I suspect.

[@djyork1673]

HD dealers are closing all over the country. And the Recent recalls on their new SGs and RGs is worrying. Find a used one with low miles and you will save a ton of money. I bought an 07 Ultra CVO with only 3900 miles for $11.5, the guy I bought it from paid $42k. Picked up another 07 Ultra CVO with 21k miles for $9k. I will never buy new

[@danconnolly2341]

Just curious, any reason for two of the same model? I have a couple of similar era HD's as you (Springer and Rocker) and a 2016 Thunderbird Storm.

[@djyork1673]

My son wanted a bagger and I couldn't pass up the deal on the 2nd CVO and it was a friend that didn't ride any longer

[@mikef3300]

In my mid fifties now I have 3 bike registered. A 1995 Harley fxstsb springer softail. My first and only Harley and it still looks and runs great. My 2004 Suzuki gsxr 750. It’s been a fun and reliable bike for me and a 2017 Ktm 690 enduro r which is a lot of fun on and off-road. Each bike is very different but all are fun to ride.

[@Tele.gram.spitescorner]

PM LES'T DISCUSS PRIVATELY ABOVE!

[@diptenkrom]

i have been saying this for years. to add a bit extra, i dont like all these LCD screens. i like seeing sweeping gauges. some tech isn't needed. the industry needs to look at what people actually want.

[@TheSar]

You're spot on mate I've sold my V-Strom 1050XT for a CFMoto 450MT and sold my Indian 1200 FTR for a Royal Enfield Interceptor 650. Have been riding for 20 years and had many bikes during that time, all but my first brand new. Going bigger and bigger each time. I'm now working my way backwards to smaller, lighter and more fun bikes to flog. Go well legends.

[@charlesprice7608]

I’m 57, financially secure. I ride a 2007 Fat Boy with 19,000 miles that I picked up for $4,500. Been riding since I was 5, have always had a motorcycle regardless of what everyone else was doing. Don’t have anything to prove. I actually just paid more for a 2007 Honda 919 than I did for the Fat Boy.

[@machupikachu1085]

919's rule.

[@MoremoneythansenseV4]

I recently got back into riding and bought a new '24 Streetfighter V4S. On sport to sport-ish bikes I've always been of the mindset that I don't want to buy anyone's problem although it may be less of a chance on a SF than a used Gixxer 1k.

[@Dragon.Slayer.]

I think that prices for new vehicles in general need to come back down to earth... Who currently can afford to buy a showroom new vehicle in the current economy?

[@iannordin5250]

Harley Davidson offers relatively average Adventure Bikes for 28k. Almost all of the competitors have bikes in the similar spec range and category for 5k-10k. I can go to any bike shop in my area and find rows of cheap Lee Enfields, Husqvarnas, Hondas, Kawasakis, and BMWs. Harleys can only be purchased from HD dealers and when you show up the price tag is 2x more and it feels like you're purchasing a car. HD just feels like you're being sold a lifestyle and promise at a premium, and that lifestyle isn't worth it.

[@MickAllen-n5w]

Bmw GS1250 $29000 australian dollars

[@Anon40G]

I'm looking to upgrade my bike (Iron 883), and I went back to my Harley dealership to ask questions and get a feel for the bigger bikes. I loved the low rider s but then saw the price tag. I went to another dealership and sat on a Vulcan S and loved that also, but I could get two of those bikes for the price of one Harley and the Vulcan S has the same features with a bullet proof engine. Harley has a huge problem with pricing. Thats it.

[@allanweseman5433]

Spite, I am one of your older riders at 76. I had a buttercup yellow '94 V-Max like the one you are riding. It had positively the worst brakes of any bike I have ever owned. At my age, I am having trouble swinging my leg over the seat, so I traded it in for: you guessed it, a '23 GROM. A rare all black one appeared on the showroom floor and was not spoken for so I bit on it. I also have a rocketship 2010 VFR 1200. If you want a world class performance bike that gets better than the V-Max 19.8 miles per gallon, that bike is it. I have two other great bikes; a 2014 CB1100 and a 2012 CBR250r. as well. What I am REALLY waiting for is Yamaha to release a new RD350 TWO STROKE that meets new emission standards. I need LIGHT and POWERFUL and money is sitting in the bank waiting for me to GET THIS BIKE to add to the 4 in my stable with fuel injection and liquid cooling.

[@guitarfreak342]

I ride a '98 CBR 600 F3. Put close to 100,000 k's on it. I fucking love it. Cables instead of wires, no ABS, no rider modes and computers, no BULLSHIT. Just a fucking badass machine.

[@philipwegmann4591]

Thank you for this, Spite. I've owned three motorcycles in my short career (the newest is from 2002 and the oldest 1981). You captured my thinking perfectly: Why would I pony up a bunch of cash for a bike with a TV screen on the dash, that I can't work on, and that doesn't justify a loan if I'm only riding six or seven months a year? Apologies for that run-on sentence, but I just don't see the need to buy something new that costs as much as a really nice used car when there are cool, old bikes out there. Are there downsides? For sure--I've never had ABS. But I've also never bought a bike for more than $4K and I've never pulled up next to someone on a stop light with the same bike as me.

[@yamaharider8014]

I feel that people want real value at an Affordable price. About a year ago I traded my Super Tenere--7yrs old/25k mi, for a new Burgman 200! I had 2Yamaha scooters B4 the SuperT (125&400cc). I'm now retired from OTR trucking, and the scoot is great for errands and going to the gym etc. At 70mpg/80mph, I can ride anywhere for pocket change. When I can afford it I will buy a GoldWing for long trips, or a Kawi Vulcan Voyager that's almost $10k less. Those of us who can't live without a bike, will find a way to have one or two or.....

[@williamrobertson8962]

This is why Royal Enfield is killing it. With the larger displacements coming out for the Himalayan and classic, they should line produce the 865cc “big bore” for the Conti/interceptor. I installed an 865 kit on a Conti and it was about perfect, just $3k for the required mods on a $6k bike is hard to swallow.

[@matthew3136]

I don't want HD to fail. If people want to overpay for a poorly built and designed motorcycle, they should be allowed to. FreeDumb.

[@richardcasey7521]

You make very good points. Something I’ve been surprised by is the growing list of bikes with horsepower levels approaching 200HP. Prices on such machines are out of reach for 90% of riders so it’s no wonder annual revenue levels are dropping at some manufacturers. Just saying….

[@FarmerBrianTee]

I have an H2SX, amazing bike. Just got a 2007 VTX1800 for 6.5K$ Canadian that had 3000 miles. Really enjoy them both. Really enjoy the VTX because it is just what is needed, motor and wheels. They have been adding electronic options to justify the price because they cost almost nothing to produce.

[@Mcnul1na]

I think you hit the nail on the head. I’m glad you brought up the mt09 since that’s my first/current bike. I paid 11,600 for my 2023 taxes, and titled. 0 miles on the clock. Would I have rather spent less money for a slightly used version? Yes. But as a new rider, I wanted something that was right. Being a new rider I was afraid of having an issue that I wouldn’t notice due to lack of experience.

[@_MisterFish]

@2:26 I'm not saying hes wrong, but here is everything he didn't get right.

[@charlesm.2756]

I've no doubt that the PR fiasco this year ain't helping sales. I know several Harley riders who will not be purchasing a new Harley any time in the foreseeable future. Many of them stated they will move to Indian when the time comes to get a new bike.

[@CascadianExotics]

With the prices of everything nowadays, people seemingly are becoming more practical. Tools like Marketplace are showing that bikes really don't depreciate on the used market after the initial hit - and the vast majority of them are under $7k. So why buy a new $20k Harley Sportster when you can get a 5 or 10 year old one for $5k? I got a reconstructed title Z400 with less than 2k miles on it as my daily commuter for $3k. Now, I'm looking to take the rest of the budget to get a second bike that I can keep rotating out every season or two as my weekend toy. My car barely gets any use anymore, and I am saving a lot of money on gas and maintenance while having a ton of fun with my new hobby.

[@charlesprice7608]

Have been riding since I was 5. 57 now and still love it, ride to work daily weather permitting. Used Harleys have never been cheaper. I picked up a showroom fresh 2009 HD FatBob for $5,500 last week. 5,412 miles completely original even the exhaust. Brand new tires and battery, fully serviced by a dealer. Called on 2009 Fat Boy a guy was letting go today only, for 3,500 but it already sold.

[@kevincrockett5155]

⁠@@charlesprice7608Knew a guy years ago who always wondered why so many people buy new bikes when there are so many lightly used older ones. Personally, I think some people just like a new bike. Same with cars. I know people who buy a new car every three years from some of the most reliable brands.

[@udmbfckx2916]

Harley went W0K3 and W0K3 is for L053R5! This is how their downfall really went down.... Because HD has survived good and bad times, but when you alienate your main customers on one of those down times... Goodbye!

[@spitescorner]

I wish you people would come up with something other than "woke bad". We get it, you don't like other people. Maybe H-Ds problem is they don't have bikes for a younger generation of riders, and they're waiting for people to age into the brand, and maybe that's a really stupid idea.

[@wanaraz]

@@spitescorner It's not there target market so why should they. They can't handle a big bike and they are broke. A 50cc moped would be more their speed.

[@forsaken1776]

not sure it's dying but in june I bought a 24 yr old bike granted it only had 3800 miles on it at the time and was almost stock. it did have a few upgrades mainly just forward controls and a mikuni carb. The new stuff cost way to much I think.

[@Jim-nm1en]

I started riding motorbikes legally at the age of 16, I am now 70 and in all that time I have only bought 3 bikes brand new only because the price was right. All the other bikes I have owned were pre-used and quite a few abandoned project rebuilds. Never believed in buying bikes that had expense adding features that I didn't want or need. Spite, I like your on bike videos.

[@dcarter001]

That road your riding looks like Lime Creek. Riding for 58 years and down to two bikes, I ride the RE650 in the morning and the Sportster in the afternoon so my neighbors won't hate me. I got a lot of miles and owned a lot bikes, there hasn't been one I haven't enjoyed. Keep riding! Ride naked!

[@thecharliebravomotorcycler5335]

62 years old, just bought a pristine 1997 Honda Nighthawk 750 with 8000 miles on the clock for $2k; fully capable of riding across the country in the company of bikes many times her price tag. The rest of that cash buys a LOT of gas, insurance, motels, food, edibles if that's what you're into and you happen to be crossing Colorado. This is my fourth CB750 over the years and what great bikes they are... and yes, all bikes are waaaay to expensive.

[@jeffreywhite5429]

I don’t think you even need a new bike for it to be reliable. I have a 02 ZZR600 Ninja, a ‘01 KLR650 and a ‘86 KZ1000-P5 that sat in a field for 20 years before I bought it. Believe it or not, all I did with the KZ1000 was put in a battery, replace the tires and clean the carbs. It had 86k miles and is the most reliable bike I own. It will start every time I hit the button. Why would I spend 10k when I can have just as much fun on a bike I paid $300 for?

[@scottgriffin2291]

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said the manufacturers simply put more tech on the bike to charge more money and the consumers are seeing through it and don't see the value in all the tech. So, now they just won't sell bikes and we'll probably start seeing some go out of business I would guess. Older bikes are much more reliable and workable than a new one that relies on touchscreens and all the other jazz. Thanks, I'm subscribing.

[@ElderGenXer]

Between the hubby and I we have 6 bikes in our garage, all of which we bought new. Reason being: we have the disposable income but no inclination to work on anything ourselves. We like the fact that we write our own stories and histories of our bikes. I don’t want to ride a bike if I’m not sure of the history. That said, I do think there are market forces at work driving people to buy smaller or cheaper bikes, not the least of which is the “cool factor “ of the small bikes. The Grom squads here are adorable and I’m amazed by how they modify those tiny bikes. Since you asked, I like the videos where you ride and talk, even if that means you might ramble slightly. ;)

[@orangelion03]

Haven't bought a new bike since 1982. Closest I came to changing thAt was a new Tiger 900 RP in 2022 , but just the a few days before I pulled the trigger on it I found a 21 model with 1600 miles and well farkled for $5K less than the OTD for a new one. There's just way too many excellent used bikes to make new ones attractive ( to me anyway). Currently considering going back to a GS, and am only considering late model oil heads...tons of them on the usual sites.

[@StygianX]

It is true that bikes are gotten very expensive, but right now there is a cost of living problem around the world. Even those who could afford to buy a new bike might be in a position where that is not a reality anymore. On top of that you have insurance costs skyrocketing, when it comes to large displacement bikes. Fact is, that for majority of riders in the western world a motorcycle is a toy. Of course there are some (like me), who daily a bike no matter what, but still for the rest, - if they have to save money due to circumstances - the toys will be the first to go away. And even for those who daily the bikes, a smaller, more economic and cheap to run bike might make more sense in the current situation.

[@newbierides]

Yea Harley prices are going to be their downfall. I have been looking for a small cruiser that I can use as a daily commuter but also on a day ride getaway. I ride an MT09 which has all this power and technology. I don't want to give all of that up to buy a basic harley for $20k. So I am looking into the Honda Rebel, which has cruise control, is small and nimble enough for a daily ride and can do some light touring on a day ride. I would rather have a nice harley with all the after market parts harley has, but fk that, I am not paying that much on a bike with way less technology than any other bike in the market.

[@Tele.gram.spitescorner]

PM LES'T DISCUSS PRIVATELY ABOVE!

[@shadowmancy9183]

Kawasaki Eliminator might be a good option as well.

[@newbierides]

@shadowmancy9183 that bike seems like a great little bike but I think it would lack too much power for me coming from a Yamaha mt09

[@shadowmancy9183]

@@newbierides I mean, it's less, but getting to ride a bike at 90% of what it can give all the time is also nice. I prefer my Enfield 650 over my Triumph 900 for that reason.

[@newbierides]

@@shadowmancy9183 yeah but that bike is not even 600cc. I had a Yamaha bolt before and highway riding on that bike was not fun. It vibrated like crazy. For a cruiser style bike I wouldn't consider anything less than 1000cc with 6 gears. The bolt only had 5 gears which is what made it not so great on the highway.

[@Karrpilot]

After i got my motorcycle license, i wanted to buy a Harley Davidson. I wanted a new one with a warranty. Bone stock. Nothing added, no aftermarket bling, no nothing. Just the bike. I couldn't find one. At least not one that wasn't molested. Nor did i find any dealer willing to deal. They had left over 2 year old unsold units, that they still wanted full list prices on. As well as the aftermarket bling and their markups. I thought that i would play the waiting game. Wait until the new models came out, then make a deal on a leftover. Not happening. Even the dealers going out of business won't budge on pricing. Nor will they announce a sale. They would rather be absorbed by another store than to give a customer a break. When i bought my new Cadillac for less than a Harley Davidson trike or a CVO, there's a problem.