More Cheating in iRacing & Esports | Sebring 12hrs

[@angelsim1596]

This one’s not too bad in my opinion. A little bit cheeky but nothing that I would be too mad at

[@stanleydeslandes129]

This is not cheating, just slow weaving.

[@owencaryl]

Gotta say, this isn't cheating. This is simply just slow weaving. Nothing bad about this at all

[@SvalbardSleeperDistrict]

Only if others have not assumed this would be cheating and refrained from doing the same.

[@128gable]

Yeah they do slow weaving in PESC as well and imo this isn't really cheating. You can already go quite slow before qualy scrutiny kicks in, I guess this is to make sure you don't get dq. Tbh this is in a different realm to Williams eSports scandal. This is more of what Jimmy was saying, if you give a driver an inch, they will take a foot.

[@mrj3217]

Not cheating if Iracing allows it. You can do the exact same thing too. Stop making crying video sessions because these guys are in a place on the grid your not. Practice, practice,practice and one day you can be as fast as this guy.

[@Barbosa81]

Again… this is the difference between racers and gamers. Racers will exploit absolutely any advantage they can to gain a advantage. If it’s in the game they will do it until iracing makes a fix around it. That’s not cheating, it’s just being a racer. Cheating is using external programs to help. What he did is basically racing… And that’s why E-sports with racing games is such a complicated thing to make it work. Because it’s like 2 completely different things. Real life racers want real life racing simulation. And gamers want a gaming competition.

[@SeanOBryanZZ]

This right here the "Duality of Man" that why I think these producers are not on the right path. I forget the channel but there's a video on YT about racing games being stagnant. I think they really do need a clean game with clear intentions. One thing I think some people are forgetting is that trackmania exists and encourages a speed running strategy.

[@IsWIM872]

I have been heating my brakes intentionally like this always with out realizing its forbidden haha. I ques I have to stop. I didnt know its an exploit… thats how sensible person gets heat in the brakes.. duh doy 😂

[@harald2101]

Where was the cheating? Can someone explain the advantage? This flew under the radar because he is not breaking rules maybe?

[@AdrianJSClark]

The advantage is intended to be additional tyre warming that can't be done out on the track itself because the built-in qualifying scrutiny system will consider it a breach. I imagine if the scrutiny system allowed weaving this aggressively on track the smartest place to do this would be the back straight just before the pits. That is both wider than pit lane and would also allow you to run your first lap as a flying lap.

[@erwinvandikkelen3790]

@@AdrianJSClark On my qualy outlaps i always exagerate the curvs and run them extra wide and a little slower so a i can scrub the tyres a little bit extra, i go about 5 seconds slower on those laps, and that's perfectly fine for iRacing's system. The system is sensitive to extra braking etc, but running your lines wider and creating 'extra' curves to get some extra heat in the tyres, you consider that cheating ?? Technically that's not even weaving, i just happen to have trouble hitting the correct racing lines/apex in that outlap due to the tyres being cold :-p

[@AdrianJSClark]

@@erwinvandikkelen3790 Often on out laps I accelerate hard, brake hard, weave left and right as well. I don't think that is cheating at all. I think if you do that on track and the scrutiny system says it is OK then it probably is. What makes me suspicious is that this driver waited until they were in pit lane to do this action. That suggests to me that if done on track it would be beyond what the scrutiny system allows. In that case, I do consider it cheating.

[@under6977]

I am glad you are bringing this up. One point you do not point out is that. If people see the pro use exploit and gain an advantage. Then the casual racer will start doing the same thing to gain the advantage. So yes, it does matter.

[@tonesnaps]

I, for one, appreciate you highlighting this. Even I don’t think this is a huge deal but the fact that so many are cheating and trying to gain an unfair advantage needs to be gaslighted! So that drivers(teams) are more reluctant to do it in the future due to being exposed and gaining damaging publicity from it. Esports are role models just like any sport. It has to be fair so that the people that strive and dream to be apart of esport or real sport is achievable. It has to be fair and just for everyone. All playing by the same rules. How can someone dream of being apart of esports or real sports if all they do is cheat and exploit things the general public doesn’t have information on or know how to use. It’s just going to kill the sim racing community. No ones going to wanna compete or try to develop their talents.

[@mrj3217]

Iracing needs live stewards for these kinda of events.

[@DirkFedermann]

I don't know if I misunderstood you or it came round the wrong way. But Diego is a Pro/WC License holder, therefore he is a Pro Driver. And Pro driver are held to a higher standard to none Pro Driver. That is written down in the rules and has been confirmed in the past by the Devs in the forum. So a "it doesn't matter" does not count.

[@stuffeyy]

Oh it most definitely matters. Professionals in any sport are role models whether they like it or not and should be held to higher standard as you say. There actions have been proven to have been copied by amateurs further down the sport hence why its important for them to have integrity.

[@diysimguy]

I thought iRacing resets the tire physics when you leave the pits . Like in the P-Cup, its easy to do a burn out and almost swing the rear around in the pits. As soon as you cross that green flag i've found the tires go back to cold. I could be wrong. Good video btw.

[@SeanCampbell_iRacing]

The pcup does that so that you can’t brake drag, but they have yet to remove that yet, even though brake dragging doesnt work anymore

[@brettdarren8799]

My question is if you enter the pits at the commencement of your first qually lap does it invalidate your first lap or do you still get to do 2 full qually laps?

[@DoctorDNF]

Is there an actual rule, that prohibits him doing that? Otherwise its just a clever appliance of the games rules, isnt it?

[@stuffeyy]

I believe it is against the rules but isn't penalised in game as the pitlane is always open. People have been banned for using this in the past.

[@Pokeyy]

IRacing sporting code: 6.9.2: When leaving his or her pit stall, a driver shall as quickly as is practical enter the acceleration/deceleration lane in order to avoid incidental contact with cars being automatically placed into nearby pit stalls. Similarly, a driver should remain in the acceleration/deceleration lane until just prior to entering his or her pit stall in order to avoid incidental contact with cars being automatically placed into nearby pit stalls. So yes it’s an actual rule

[@DoctorDNF]

@@Pokeyy Oh, I did not see that one, thanks! However one *could* argue that this refers to a racing/training situation only, as in Qualifying there are no other cars to cause an incident with. So the reasoning for the rule is mute in quali. Id call it debatable if that means, this rule does or does not apply in Quali.

[@DoctorDNF]

Whats also interesting is the usage of „shall“ and „should“ in this specific part, while other rules use the more definitive „must“. I am not a native english speaker, but this almost makes 6.9.2 sound like a suggestion to avoid punishable incidents/crashes, rather than a definitive rule. But that might be a bit nitpicky 😅

[@DjMarkyBatch]

@@Pokeyy but its not enforced by the game by invalidating all the laps ... which is what it should do... if it doesnt, is the sporting code effective if no one is reviewing? or the game doesnt enforce it.

[@MatthewScerriM]

While it's important this is highlighted, I wouldn't call this cheating as much as a clever exploit (as you do in the video). It happens in real racing too. See how Schumacher won the 98 British Grand Prix. It's down to iRacing to clamp down on this behaviour, much like it's down to the FIA to clamp down on exploits in the rules.

[@wallyroyal]

Schumacher didn't win the grand prix by going through the pit lane, it was because the stewards didn't serve notice of the penalty correctly. He could have continued on track and passed the finish line normally and would have won the grand prix.

[@Sir_Naps_A_Lot]

Scott, If there is money to be made you can find people that will exploit ways to get it. I left iRacing in December and don't miss it. Between all the people that wreck others out and now the cheating I'm not going back. I'll continue my AI races on other platforms and enjoy myself knowing everyone is above board.

[@stuffeyy]

As long as you are enjoying yourself that's all that matters

[@Sir_Naps_A_Lot]

@@stuffeyy Yes, I am having a blast.

[@thetruth1446]

You're right, this is the reason sim racing esports doesn't get the recognition it deserves. CoD pro players have gentleman's agreement not to use these

[@bernardocury1607]

I’m not sure I have a problem with this one. What Williams did at daytona24 was clearly stated in the regulations as forbidden, however I’m not sure this exploit (and yes, I recognize it is an exploit) is also clearly forbidden by the regs. If not, I do t consider this cheating, if yes, well, then it’s cheating

[@AdrianJSClark]

I'd consider this a violation of iRacing Sporting Code 6.9.2: "6.9.2. When leaving his or her pit stall, a driver shall as quickly as is practical enter the acceleration/deceleration lane in order to avoid incidental contact with cars being automatically placed into nearby pit stalls. Similarly, a driver should remain in the acceleration/deceleration lane until just prior to entering his or her pit stall in order to avoid incidental contact with cars being automatically placed into nearby pit stalls." This driver certainly did not "remain in the acceleration/deceleration lane" during this maneuver.

[@HesDeadJim]

If I’m not mistaken, the driver didn’t enter or exit their pit stall for this one right? Or did I miss something

[@AdrianJSClark]

@@HesDeadJim That is true, they did not. It is certainly a loop hole I would point out in defense of the driver if I was representing them in a hearing about this incident.

[@SwordnScale]

Thanks for highlighting this, I'd argue it's more important in lower splits as you avoid the carnage so it's definitely an exploit iracing have to fix. All these stories about cheating is slowly turning me off sim racing as I don't have the time to practice much and knowing there's people cheating just to increase their match making number kinda makes me think what the he'll am I doing here

[@CrazyTeam31]

Brake dragging is considered as cheating ? I'm not a natural english, I don't know if I missed that point or not

[@BrohovahWitness]

I like your point talking about role models. Ultimately its how I feel why its so sad all this cheating is going on.

[@scrappy8494]

I don't think its that bad. Its just trying to get extra tyre temperature in qualifying. in GT3 for qualifying I couldnt even get temperature into the tyres after the outlap and 1 full push lap

[@erwinvandikkelen3790]

Huh, i don't get it, where's the cheating?? Is he gaining another extra lap by going through pitlane? If it is after his outlap, he just ruined his first qualy lap attempt .. So why would weaving in the pit give him an advantage? He could even be heating the tyres extra on the outlap itself or even lap 1 in qualy if he does not care to loose that attempt. 90% of simracers do swerve around a bit extra before the green flag drops in a race, if you do that within reasonable 'normal lines' the system does not care .. He just ruined his first qualy lap attempt .. and that in my point of view is much more of a disadvantage then a gain.

[@JesseJamesJones]

I wouldn't say this is cheating. You can use the pitlane however you please in sim as long as its below the pitlane speed limit. Nothing says in the rules to use the correct lane, or not weave in the pits. I'd say that's smart af 🤣 and typical to what you can find at the top level in any sport. To the 99% of sim racers out there, you probably wouldn't notice this very very small advantage you'll get. I don't seem to gain anything from it personally "currently 8600ir and race with these guys frequently". No where as bad as grass dipping, or using the apron as they are clearly not allowed in the rules. But cool video, and I defo believe there needs to be live stewarding in top split events, only way these shenanigans can be policed 🤠

[@enzohiceta4129]

weaving is fine they do it all the time in pesc, diogo didnt rly do anything wrong as compared to williams. Ragards 🖖

[@KraMelius.]

I'm not a huge fan of people calling this cheating. Happens in real racing. And this is a simulator. You have the choice to do it too or not. No need to gate keep the way you can drive or qualify. Each there own I guess. I care more about dirty drivers than anything else.

[@mac-li6du]

Weaving to warm tyres isn’t against iracing rules tho

[@johnhamrick88]

I hate to say it but i find it kinda cheeky for that streamer to be complaining about anything

[@Superkolos]

Everything for the clicks. How much trash can someone talk…

[@stevenst6337]

So is the exploit that weaving in the pit lane is getting their tyres in the right temp window quicker or is it glitching the tyre temps?

[@stuffeyy]

Trying to heat tyres up to a temp that wouldn't be possible under normal quali conditions as iRacing would disqualify your lap for going to slow/moving irregularly. This would of course result in a faster quali time.

[@brentschmogbert]

Bro 8min is enough. Don’t need to reach the 10min mark anymore. Kind regards Your mama

[@brentonedwards]

Wait, there's no live stewards? Really?

[@jonbanaitis2992]

Send this video to Iracing let them decide and deal with it

[@mobvod8127]

They would have practiced this and would of known of what the result would be

[@Connorpooler]

I would’ve binned it in the pits trying that

[@stuffeyy]

😂 I thought this too

[@davebodio]

This is racing.

[@ltgracer2666]

More drivers come up the ranks ,most ever, I think the roll model part is very important!! All throw I had just extracted iRacing and reloaded it and there was a new iRacing cheat stopper that I had to install ,don’t know what it did?

[@ROJC-21]

Now it is reaching Nothing comparable to tires in the grass at spa or the apron at daytona He just weaved in the pits by himself

[@stuffeyy]

It's not reaching as the intention to gain an advantage is there for us to see. While not comparable to grass dipping in regard to how much it to reduces lap time this couldve been the difference between them qualifying on pole which is very important in the top split racing.

[@ROJC-21]

@@stuffeyy idk man, using team redline and "CHEATING" in all caps in the thumbnail to gain views, then it is this... how shocking I'm crying n shaking But again, the other times you were doing god's work but today it is not it I'm sorry

[@ROJC-21]

He didnt even win anything

[@stuffeyy]

@slip he doesn't have to win anything for him to change the fact the intention was there and that he used an exploit to try to gain an unfair advantage. He is a very big name in sim racing atm and races for one of the biggest sim racing teams, that's fact and not clickbait.

[@Colin_Barnes]

I kinda agree, i do get that brake dragging in the pits is a bit cheeky but the title and thumb makes you think they had Griphacks.exe open on stream XD

[@AaronGoSoFast]

You're shitting me. Its considered an exploit to push the brakes and the throttle at the same time??? That cant be right. If it is then is trail braking an exploit? Is drafting an exploit? Is going faster an exploit?

[@JonB83]

Should be easy to fix at least and the guy should get a ban to set an example. Maybe as long as it takes to fix the exploit! To try to bypass the Qualy detection is what is bad.

[@stuffeyy]

Agreed. It's the intention and that they clearly were bypassing a mechanic set in place to stop this exact thing

[@superstar5042]

Ban for what? It's not against rules. You can't ban people for rules that's not exist. They should just add to rules of the big special events that you cant weave on pitlane in quali or smtht else. It's not cheating, it's just abusing game mechanics and it can be easily fixed in next events by organizers, if they want.

[@iracingaussie]

Oh not again. Heard it here first mate, It seems its at every major event now…

[@Neilmcconnon]

Fair play man. Yes u should be posting this info. 🤝🏻

[@11collier11]

This isn't cheating. However, it goes against a "moral code of conduct" in my book. You wouldn't be allowed to do this in the real series. Therefore, you shouldn't do it here simply because it's not the RIGHT thing to do.

[@rickardboberg]

Report it, let iRacing handle it just like the FIA handles are grey areas in F1 and other racing series. Don't understand the fuss about it....

[@bricktop2090]

I think your starting to Nit Pick m8, Grip hack is a cheat for sure but if you go down this road the next thing will be if someone does a donut he's cheating because his tires will be warmer" 😳

[@rankisdumb214]

It's impossible to make everything perfect. There's always going to be exploits and people who use them. I'm curious about the difference in systems in regards to GPUs, CPUs ect ect. When I over clock my CPU the car actually drives better and I can be 2 or 3 tenths faster. I also risk the chance of my PC crashing I'm curious if there's rules regarding core frequencies, ram speeds ect ect

[@baldmar5083]

Fully agree, great video

[@jffmyr]

I don’t see what the problem is. Did he speed in the pits? It’s not like there is anyone to kill in the pits. Cars pass right through each other there in iracing. Perhaps i’m dim. I don’t see what harm or unfairness was was done?

[@Wolfe_No.13]

The one thing I never understand is the beef with people finding loopholes like this, or being mad about brake dragging, etc. dragging your brakes a little bit every so often on an outlap is not that uncommon especially in series where you don't have tire blankets like F1, so weaving will just make you spin. I do it on my outlaps with Skip Barber, I've been coached to do it, this is just another loophole that racers look for to find that little extra advantage.

[@AdrianJSClark]

The "Brake Dragging Exploit" was a very different activity to holding some brake while driving around. It involved driving very slowly, holding full brake and full throttle, and weaving wildly. The exploit part was that you would not wear your tyres, due to the low speed, but would super-heat your brakes and therefore raise tyre carcass temperature. Holding a small amount of brake during your out-lap is completely allowed within the rules (both normal racing and iRacing).

[@Wolfe_No.13]

@@AdrianJSClark brake dragging IRL you do a similar thing. brake while still on throttle to keep the car moving. the only reason you can't be as aggressive as iRacing with some of that is because of tyre deg and also you would overheat your brakes and over-wear your brake pads on an outlap

[@MattDiffey]

Absolutely get why you'd post this, but it really didn't need to be 10 minutes long

[@stuffeyy]

Trust me I couldve gone on longer 😂

[@midslam]

THIS. Almost lost me and by the end of it, I nearly forgot what video I was watching.

[@DjMarkyBatch]

But, its not cheating, the rules are governed by the game, there are no stewards reviewing it, everyone has the same opportunity to do that same, if its an exploit, that iracing should fix, then the title of the video should reflect it. Cheating is circumventing the rules, ie the programmed game with Hacks, and obviously the game sets the rules. Or, the championship admins within the game that is created, set guidelines and regulations people participating should follow. Does this mean we need appointed race stewards appointed who are watching and reviewing each competitor. Wouldnt be practical. as with any sport, like you mentioned, people will take any advantage they can get, but even though this is highlighted, nothing will happen. This video is just diluting videos that find hacks, and suits those cheaters as it waters down, the hack users cheats. Which no one wants.

[@bsmracing6592]

when it happens in real life, it should be part of sims too. just last year winning team in f1 was punished for cheating and they still are at top.

[@leeg8461]

Unless it's specifically against the rules, it's not cheating. It's like complaining that trail breaking is cheating just because you're not doing it. If it gains you an advantage, and there's no rule against it, just do it, and stop whining about it.

[@regibson23]

How is this an advantage if it didn't work? So he does the old brake drag thing in pit lane to not get black flagged? That's it?

[@stuffeyy]

Hes working around the iRacing rule system which doesn't allow this in qualifying. He's exploitng the system to try to gain an advantage. I don't know if it worked as his Quali time wasn't good (could be many reasons for that) but the intention is quite clear in what he is trying to achieve

[@ltgracer2666]

Thanks stuffed!

[@rathbonephilip]

Somebody attempted to 'exploit' the physics engine working correctly??? The big disappointment here is the use of click bait and blackening someone's name, just to make some KZbin coin.

[@BlakeClouatre]

Not cheating, just doing whatever it takes to win.

[@rynosraceroom66]

What the hell ? Something must be in the water !🤘🏼🏁

[@Toptechitsimracing9601]

they should just close pit road in quali

[@stuffeyy]

Would be the easiest solution

[@petermaardananders6803]

Dont shoot the messenger please, but many irl race drivers and teams say this about it "":As long as your not caught cheating, you have not cheated"". That is a regular way of thinking in many sports sadly.

[@maxb148]

For me it's borderline cheating but what is funny is he only qualified 8th so any help it did cause him it wasn't major like the brake dragging.

[@stuffeyy]

Yep only 8th so either it didn't have the intended effect or he made a mistake costing him a good time. Either way the intention was there

[@jonhartley7238]

Sorry, why can't you weave to heat tyres in qualis? That's a nonsense rule. I don't get how doing something pretty normal in irl, on the only bit of track you're allowed to do it, is cheating? Yes it is evident that they're using the pitlane to heat their tyres, and if that is against regs, then that's that, but not (safely) weaving before a quali lap is bad form irl.

[@erwinvandikkelen3790]

It's meant to be "not allowed on pre-race outlap" .. coz some caused mayhem doing so :-)

[@jonhartley7238]

@@erwinvandikkelen3790 Ah righto, thanks!

[@HesDeadJim]

So… if iRacing hasn’t said no prior… then it’s not cheating. Just like the mini-helmets driver you have there, drivers will take every possible advantage they can, then others teams raise an objection, and it gets dealt with 1 way or the other. Although technically it’s an “exploit” it’s not like they are exploiting code, or straight up cheating. It’s just “hard racing” Toto

[@mrj3217]

Stop 😭!!

[@cbrdealer]

It's monkey see monkey do with a lot of this stuff. It makes sim racing look bad imo. There is some kind of advantage from doing that, or he wouldn't have been doing it! Lets be real here. These things need to start being taken more serious by iracing and other devs. There needs to be consequences severe enough to make people and teams not even try. Until that happens you will be making many more of this type of video.

[@shorok9333]

He did nothing wrong, nothing at all. You should only blame the developer for making a faulty mechanic. everything else is just naiv.

[@adamcollingburn430]

To say iracing cost ££££’s (with a good selection of cars and tracks) there are far too many holes and exploits - this shouldn’t be allowed to happen. Both in the code but also live stewards for top level events should have been the norm for years.

[@TerryTaylorsstyle]

lol the fact that you got this from Daniel gray makes it even less worthy of watching. Daniel gray does nothing but cause issues and belittle people in servers and intentionally takes people out

[@rachaelwilliams2064]

I started losing my interest in sim racing more and more over the past 6 months or so and I’m a 4 year iracing member. Environment has become too toxic for me to invest a chunk of time

[@ab8jeh]

Clickbait.

[@H7dro]

This isnt cheating for me.. if it isnt allowed give a in game penalty or dq.

[@drorzy_0485]

Sorry but this is not “cheating” persé. It’s a little bit click baity by you really. Yes he’s exploiting something to get an advantage but this is not opening a 3rd party app to gain extra grip or anything. Now all you have really done is given others something to try on their Quallifying laps. I know you said you disagree with this statement but I respectfully completely disagree with your stance on this one. I do agree that it’s not good but it’s not definitely not a proven cheat and it’s not really an advantage. All that’s going to happen now is since you have highlighted it, there is going to be a lot of people Quallifying out of position if it actually does anything at all and works. You’re video is a highlighted with a lot of assumptions. He didn’t put it on pole. We didn’t see him come go through Sunset, maybe he just stuffed up his run through Sunset and thought it better to go through Pitlane and still have 2 flying laps to have a crack?? To make these these sort of accusations and to be so angry about it you really need to have more proof that backs up your theory or theories. Otherwise it’s just click bait and fantasy really.

[@MrEd94]

Can Verstappen ever be associated with a team that doesn't cheat?