More Harm Than Good? Toyota Diff Drop Truth vs Myth

Do you need a diff drop after lifting your Toyota 4X4? This applies to 4Runner, Tacoma, FJ Cruiser, Tundra, Land Cruiser 200, GX470, GX460, Prado 120 and 150, late model Hilux and more.
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0:00 The Internet Debate
1:05 Is Diff Drop Good?
7:20 Is Diff Drop Bad?

[@randomuser6306]

Every video you make is gold.

[@Praetor353]

I second this, the technical breakdown and testing of toyota ifs is unique and helps the myself and the community truly understand what's going on with it!

[@caseyjames5412]

This is such a great channel for Toyota 4x4 insight.

[@ThomasCWiley]

Seriously, so insightful

[@johnb9045]

Yeah, there's no other channel like this. Great work man, thanks.

[@IowaLR4]

agreed. no bullshit, just actual hands on example and engineering.

[@joeracca7505]

As a layman with an interest in engineering, thank you for being an engineer willing to communicate with us laymen. Specifically, I appreciate your willingness to address common misconceptions in a way that is undeniable when the complete set of variables are observed, not just individual parts being talked about as if they exist in a vacuum. Your clear and concise explanations allow you to touch on things that other experts might understand but not be able to articulate to others who are learning. On top of all this you have superb video quality and a likeable personality. Excellent work, my friend.

[@TinkerersAdventure]

I appreciate the kind words!

[@harrywalker968]

do not,,ever,,buy a 4x4 if you intend,,to 4x4,,with ifs,,there garbage..

[@harrywalker968]

only reason they use ifs in manufacturing,,is there cheaper, lighter,than a diff, solid axle..keeps the epa figures down..cost,,plus, they break, so they sell more parts.. i have an 82 bronco,,fitted a solid axle..drive 200% better, with more travel off road.. theres a vid of an fj droped off a 1 ft, or less shelf,,rolled it..

[@bannedbycommieyoutube5time920]

@@harrywalker968 IFS also generally gives you a better on road ride, on average. I’m with you on liking solid axles better though

[@gavinfisher8049]

Gday. Form Australia.. very informative videos for IFS.. LOVE IT..❤. With the limited ball joint knuckles on the Mitsubishi triton MQ-MR 2015-2023 I would love to see the best set up with lift and UCAS for this vehicle .. so many misconceptions with this car it needs to be debunked once and for all by someone with engineering background.. Future video series? Currently about to run ironman pro forge UCAS with 2" Outback armour struts, but still unsure to go diff drop.

[@teddymeredith2565]

Get this man a tv show. Most informative off-road content on KZbin

[@TrevorDyck]

No way. TV shows get watered down, dumbed down, and fluffed up with marketing agendas. This space is where it's at.

[@rc7074]

@@TrevorDyck Truth, this is the best tech channel on KZbin bar none.

[@troy3456789]

@@TrevorDyck If he keeps truthing and facting, KZbin will demonetize, or boot his entire channel.

[@ChrisParayno]

No don't, the networks will screw him over. Get this man some sponsorships!

[@imabebebebe2496]

NO network television boomer.

[@AscendingBliss]

This man has the most logical and well thought out insights of when it comes to using your vehicle.

[@diegosalinas1763]

As an Off Road instructor that just watched 4 of your videos , I love all of this ! I will definitely tell students about your channel ! Keep up the great work !

[@fpenman]

Off road instructor 😂

[@Schism404]

Just found your channel yesterday as I was looking for information while working on my FJs suspension (replacing factory components with new OEM stuff for now). I love how detailed your videos are and how they are backed up with the math and physics to prove it! I've learned a lot as to what each component does and what to look for as I do my maintenance! Keep up the great work!

[@caseyjames5412]

Love your videos! Last year I bought a 13' 4Runner Trail w/ KDSS I am slowly building into a capable overlander for 4x4 camping and technical off-road trails. As someone who has yet to throw thousands of dollars at a lift I am so grateful to have found your channel to clear up myths and internet rumors about 4Runner/Toyota lifts. I would have HATED to be $3,000-$5,000 into a build only to find i over spent on something that made me lose articulation and off-road performance. You have used science and thoroughly explained points to help people build the most efficient and cost effective off-road machines. I'm always excited to see new videos get released by you. Thank so much from Sacramento, CA!

[@Colom990]

Straight to the point. No long introduction or annoying music. Very informative. Subscribed.

[@FJX2000_Productions]

Your channel is so amazing 🤩 thanks for sharing such an in-depth analysis on this topic. I learn something every time! For my FJ I haven’t ever installed a diff drop and never wanted to due to the complications it would have with my front skid plates. But your explanation makes a lot of sense, and now I have zero reason to install one! Thanks!

[@dpaulitejr]

Next time someone in the Toyota Facebook group asks a question, I’ll just respond with, “Watch Tinkerer’s Adventure on KZbin.”

[@trailrunnah8886]

I link his videos all the time in the 4Runner group I belong to haha.

[@Fizz826]

Your videos answered all my questions I’ve asked myself and others in the past 12 years.🤔 (Purchased ‘08 FJ in ‘11) 👍🏼

[@aaronedwards1641]

*Laughs in solid front axle

[@16driver16]

I like IFS, the steering box, hubs and brakes can be great on my solid axle

[@UrbanOpsOffRoad]

Thanks for putting the message out! I been singled out in the past as the crazy dude yelling at the clouds but you’re putting out the evidence, ground clearance is everything when riding on IFS. Thanks for the videos dude, hopefully business takes off so I can become a patreon and buy some of those sweet knobs. Again, thank you Kai!

[@dogshmog]

Man, some really in depth and well presented info. So much effort into demonstrating the concepts. Well done.

[@georgeweisnicht6820]

Your videos are the best source for Toyota 4x4 technical info on the internet by far. I'd love to see a video analyzing the sliding sway bar disconnects for non KDSS 120s. They seem like an interesting compromising for keeping a sway bar.

[@georgeweisnicht6820]

So I've spent some time thinking about the 10" travel set up you mentioned. It may be possible to use Bilstein 5100s with a 3/8" top spacer. The total length would come out just short of 10". I think you should be able to get full up travel and bumpstop function based on this video from Westcott Designs (kzbin.info/www/bejne/ooPdmI2HgJhqlbs) showing their 1/2" top hat spacer on a fox trd pro strut with a TCL of 17.44" and the 5100s have a total compressed length is 17.58". The 0.14" difference would be accounted for by the slight shorter top hat spacer. Also there are other options for the N80 diff drop kit that are cheaper and some look to be sturdier. The CalOffroad kit has an extra mount point and is about 370 usd vs 460. There is also a set on Alibaba for about 250. Can't wait to hear more about what you're piecing together. Note: In the westcott video, they don't show the same level of bump stop compression vs your IFS video.

[@_TenaciousD_]

Amazing content! Finally someone sharing good info about lifts and susp/steering/driveline geometry 👍🏼

[@SugarAndSpiceRacing]

Every video you make is superb! I learn something from you EVERY TIME! Especially because you often use Ironman 4x4 products to compare and that’s what I’m running on my 2019. Keep up the great videos!

[@fouUili684]

Thank you for what you do, with your technical explanations it would be great for you to look into the benefits of bigger tires besides ground clearance and more sidewall for off-road. Maybe even look into what regearing after adding bigger tires does

[@accutuneoffroad]

Great video! We also tell customers a diff drop is not needed. 1" more travel beyond an extended travel shock will run into other issues in addition to CV angles. Ball joint or uniball on UCA will usually be maxed out.

[@JTuggy_MissionFrmGlobalMargins]

Great video. But in my opinion, the best solution is even more simple: a solid front axel!😄

[@ronaldrussell5481]

Another excellent discussion. Glad you addressed the "real" diff drop, i.e., Phatt (and similar) from Australia. I came to a similar conclusion as you did that the 1" spacers really don't accomplish much.

[@arimadx]

Thanks for this video buddy. I came across this issue a bit ago and couldn't find a straight answer . I appreciate how you explained it all AND saved me a little money 😅

[@toddh4617]

Man, you have some great videos and explain things to us normal folk very well and easy to understand. Thank you for your time and effort making these videos!

[@JaredBusch]

I knew it!!! In one of the 4Runner forums on some thread I read a couple years ago, a guy had some issues with his steering, went to a toyota dealer and took one of their top technicians for a ride in his 4runner, they talked about his issue and got on the topic of the diff drop, the tech explained at great length why the diff drop can actually cause a series of issues all related to each other, going back to the diff drop. I have been looking for that thread for a long time now but still can't find it. But since reading it, I made up my mind not to get a diff drop. This video confirms my decision. Fantastic video as always man!

[@TinkerersAdventure]

Thanks! Yeah many issues on vehicles are interconnected and not simple or linear. Most people are looking for short yes or no answers, but those are not usually correct or good.

[@Caldermatson]

You seriously have the best information on toyota ifs!!! Keep up the good work!

[@TrueNorthT4R]

I've been on the fence for months about getting a diff drop and finally found your video! Now im not ordering a diff drop and going to mesure my front suspension angles haha. Thank you so much for being so in depth and informative! You sir have gained a follower and respect!

[@itr0863]

I got one with my Dobinson lift. I was too lazy to put it on. Years later I see this video so now I’m glad that I did not put it on. Lol. 😂

[@royvreeland1609]

Love your content, keep up the good work! Very educational and helpful for the community.

[@heres_the_sauce]

Awesome info! Thanks for clearing this up. I have a 3rd gen 4Runner. I’m planning 1.5-2” lift, 33” tires and spc control arms

[@xturboexpress]

Kai is the hero we need

[@jameswacker7483]

I’ve recently rewatched this whole series. It seems to me, with the right UCA, 1/2” top strut spacer, extended travel shock and the diff drop arms, you could maximize the stock length arm travel. I’d love to see you test that combo.

[@zenithmaralda]

Thanks for making this video - it helps clear up a lot of internet mythology. I love that you added the note on Landcruiser 100*, just before I was about to install the diff drop. Would you ever do a video on good practices when working on vehicles? I'm looking at shots of your shop and can see it's extremely meticulous. A video on practical advice to at-home mechanics or even shop owners might be super helpful. Thanks again.

[@TinkerersAdventure]

Thanks! That’s a good topic. Great suggestion!

[@cjlavesser]

These videos are a MASTER CLASS in reasoned argument. So valuable.

[@johnphillips9821]

One of your most entertaining and informative videos. Thank you!

[@MrFastFarmer]

Fantastic video. I laughed when you said be careful with spacers. I trashed several steering arms before realising it was the extra drop spacers created.

[@mikemorgan4670]

Really like your analysis and delivery. Always learn something from your content.

[@mr2gud2u]

As always great info. I'm always shocked I don't see your work cited more on Sequoia grps.

[@mikedavis5931]

These videos are excellent! Keep ‘em coming!!

[@ASKips]

Always happy watching your content. I’ve learnt so much from them. I’m curious to know about how much damage wheel spacers cause on hubs. This is something I’ve seen contradicting information on and right now your channel is my most trusted source for this kind of info.

[@TinkerersAdventure]

Great suggestion!

[@tubqhe]

Scotty Kilmer says No

[@rjm7168]

Just found your channel and watched a bunch of your videos. Although I don't drive a Toyota (2004 Suburban 2500), I found your scientific/engineering aproach very interesting and useful.

[@ForgottenWaypoints]

Awesome as always. Now take a look at the 100 series and the torsion bar. If you need a rig to video, you can use mine! (I did do the diff drop on my LX470)

[@Wacky08]

I could watch you, and AMD at The Car Care Nut all day. Very thorough!!

[@arvinarvin1618]

Awesome ! Indonesia here played around with hilux N80, fortuner, and a prado 150, learned a lot from all your videos Kai, Thanks and have a great toyotas, cheers

[@rudedogii]

Great video! I been telling people that for years. In my opinion dont buy a lift, buy a suspension kit! I run a modified six inch Rough Country kit.

[@bm_videa]

Very informative and greatly structured video, as always. Thank you for posting.

[@JohnDoe-ud2cc]

You are 100% right on the keep your lift under 2 inches. I see so many people force their ifs into a 4 inch lift. With stock arms this is horrible. There is nothing positive about this style lift. It will never align, extreme tire shoulder wear, rides like crap, you loose all droop and articulation, and I guarantee that your upper ball joint will break at some point. The ideal ride hight is where your suspension is neutral. If your arms can move 10 inches, ideally you would have your ride hight where your suspension travel is 5 inches up and 5 inches down.

[@DaveyJordan]

Great stuff as always Kai. Thank you!

[@troy3456789]

You crystalize what was extremely vague to me. Thank you.

[@jesse5442]

Wow! I really appreciate the time you take explaining The “WHY” behind your views. Keep up the great content.

[@TradesmanOutdoorAdventures]

Even though I’m not a Toyota/IFS fan, I appreciate your detailed, well-articulated analysis. Subbed.

[@calebjohnson6720]

As a mechanical engineer and a rock crawler, I can't tell you how much I appreciate these videos. I used to have a Jeep Wrangler, but recently bought a 5th gen 4Runner. While trying to decide on lift and tire size and all the variables, it is overwhelming the amount of conflicting, or outright false information there is out there. Everyone has their own opinion that they believe is correct. This is because people believe everything they hear and don't use their brains, or like you said, generalize it and apply it to all situations. The only way to know for sure is to actually understand the system. Your videos educate people that don't posses the mechanical inclination that you and I have, as well as help even seasoned engineers apply these principles to the Toyota platform. Thanks and keep them coming.

[@corail53]

I mean you are doing the exact same thing.

[@unluckyalf2007]

Love your scientific and impartial approach to these mods. Keep up the good work

[@agentchowdown4938]

Another fantastic video. You should make a video about how to get as much droop as possible! Using that arm style diff drop, aftermarket UCA’s, extended + spacer coilovers, and high articulation cv axles. What is the theoretical limit to the stock suspension design using aftermarket parts without going for long travel IFS? Or at least do a video about maximizing droop, even if you don’t take it all the way. Thanks again for the fantastic content! Reconsidering my diff drop now 😂

[@jfriday1ify]

Please do this!

[@KFloTacoma]

Very well done bro! I enjoyed your thorough analysis as well as your subjective and objective reasoning on the topic - Bravo! I subscribed after just watching this video. Cheers 🍻

[@diesel112358]

Wow! I wish I had known this a couple of years ago. I took my 07 FJC MT to the shop to replace the cv axles, and they recommended a diff drop. I had it done. I since then have converted my FJ into an overlander and have several trails under my belt. There are no issues yet. With my FJ having a 3" suspension lift, maybe I'll have that diff drop reversed in the future. I don't like the possible 1" of lost ground clearance. Thanks Kai!!

[@GriffinConway]

This channel is insanely good and I don’t even own a Toyota lol

[@GodsEyeQLD]

I love your content. This exact video needs to be seen by every Australian four wheel driver!

[@testtesttesttesttest884]

Best technical and thoughtful analysis out there!

[@-A.n.d.r.e.w-]

Absolutely awesome man! Loving this channel! I was definitely an over generaliser before watching this. Love to learn something new.

[@shawnomeara6153]

Kai, you are without a doubt the most thorough, and honest tech guy on KZbin.

[@Potz4pizza]

Always look forward to your videos 👍

[@gregmgm06]

Another great video!! Keep up the good work!

[@FranciscoLopez-og9sv]

Excellent video! Solid explanation and information. Subscribed ✔️

[@cristopherandino3000]

I love these videos. I just installed a 3inch lift kit on my 2021 4runner and I didn't do the diff drop. I'm running BFGOODRICH stock size 265's for now, when those are worn-out I'll change the wheels and tires going for 33's. Pretty happy with the results.

[@useryggfdcc]

Driving a Tacoma TRD 4x4 myself having done some serious offroad, level 5 trails, this video answered many of my questions . Subscribed. 👍

[@bpundt1094]

This video deserves so much more attention. Thank you

[@robertjustin1291]

Always look forward to your videos

[@i-b1982]

Excited to get actual data and hopefully the theory from Both perspectives

[@TylerWilson-vl1fu]

Awesome video just validated my thought of not installing a diff drop on my 2012 Tacoma with a 3” lift

[@ascentoffroad]

You’re a Toyota National Treasure 😂. Keep up the good work. I really enjoy these videos.

[@liamhargreaves7135]

Love your videos pure gold

[@loydpena2772]

I’m a Nissan guy and I still really enjoy your videos. Keep it up!

[@DDDYLN]

Me too. I have a 2011 Xterra AT Pro-4X, but I used to have a 2006 FJ Cruiser MT. I have to say, I like my Xterra much better. The resale value isn't as good. That's the one big negative. However, the frame is so much stronger, and you don't have to do a body mount chop to fit larger tires. Unfortunately, because Nissan didn't sell many 2nd Gen Xterras, aftermarket support is limited, and expensive.

[@mungbean84]

One issue with the arm drop from Kaon is that it's only for the hilux/fortuner platform and not the prado/FJ/4runner platform. While they both use the same outer components, the diffs and chassis are different.

[@jdown86]

Another well explained video, thank you for the knowledge and the money saving tips Ki. I'm curious to your thoughts on replacing the driver side needle bearing to a ECGS bushing for preventative wear and vibration after lifting a 5th Gen 4runner?

[@TinkerersAdventure]

Thank you! Yeah you should do it. Or wait until the factory one went out. Mine went out even with 2" lift. But I swapped in an ARB air locker, which came with a similar bushing.

[@JaredBusch]

@@TinkerersAdventure I agree. I had a 2" lift and the bearing went fast, swapped in for the ECGS, then got a 3" lift, problem was not only solved, but it's been fine for the past 2 years of hard wheeling. that being said, cheaper aftermarket CV's, even with the ECGS bushing, will cause issues. It;'s very important to stick with toyota CV's WITH the ECGS bushing as the tolerances with toyota CV's is tighter, aftermarket CV's seem to be maybe even a few micrometers off, causing slop in the CV cassette

[@haroldhprittjr7007]

I took the brackets off the front diff and redesigned them so the diff drops . Now I made my own skid plates with wings tat stick out in to the bottom a-arms. This way with my front cv protector’s the cv joints are only unprotected from the back side . I think I dropped my diff around 3/4 of an inch. Now my skid plates the bottom flat one is 1/4 inch plate now the front is 3/16. I recently made a front bumper to replace the one behind the plastic so it’s for a winch ! Yeah fits behind the original plastic bumper cut one hole under the front plate . It’s all 1/4 plate boxed on the bolt on ends then flat under the winch with 4 gussets on the ends timing the flat in to the boxed ends . Then a peace of channel across the bottom with two threaded holes for the middle bumper cover bolts ! Great advise on all the lift products and your facts then most for your knowledge!

[@conradaleshire4428]

Bringing the science to all the country bubbas I love it. Keep up the great work, you got a new subscriber

[@adambrown7741]

Great video. Same thoughts work for older Toyota designs. Like my 1st gen sequoia. Diff drops are wildly regarded in this community as useless for a lot of the same reasons talked about in this video!

[@Absolute_Unit135]

I’ve been wanting your take on drop bracket lifts ever since I first found your channel, should be good

[@TinkerersAdventure]

Thanks. This does not cover drop bracket lift like the Rough country 6” lift, which uses a taller spindle. BUT, i will present something like that but maybe even better, stay tuned :)

[@Absolute_Unit135]

@@TinkerersAdventure oh sorry, I must’ve seen the title and misread. But yes, I think a video on drop bracket lifts would be very helpful to many people in truck modding community!

[@trailrunnah8886]

@@Absolute_Unit135 It's funny, the Toyota community thinks drop bracket lifts are trash, however, when I was younger and into full-size pickups, for the guys that ran IFS on those, the drop bracket kits were considered the quality kits and the way to go. Personally, I think drop bracket kits have their place, it just depends what you're trying to do with the vehicle and what your main performance goals are. I like the fact that the drop bracket kits at least make an attempt to maintain the factory geometry.

[@rc7074]

Wish I'd seen this sooner brother, another great video.

[@Rex_Stuph]

Another point that has sat in my mind about diff drops is the amount of slip in the CV trunnions that allow for variations in the distance between joint centers as the suspension moves through it's arc. Presumably manufacturers account for the radius the outer cv travels in through compression, but if you go and drop the inner point an amount that would give substantial advantage on half shaft angle, there could be the possibility if the shaft pulling out or worse, bottoming out in the joints. Also, drop your diff all you want, it's not helping the insane angles a lifted IFS puts on steering tie rods, therefore on load the rack and all the ball joints. Being a Prado 95 owner and seeing the number of ball joint failures in the community for people who've just lifted their front ends to the sky, yeah, nah, 2" lift life is fine.

[@bquade70]

Wow, glad I subscribed! 👍👍

[@SecretAgentMan.]

You eluded to the spindle lift kits have advantages and disadvantages. I’d love a video with you take on these kits!

[@scottposey2996]

Your videos are my favorite. Great content friend.

[@dukenukem7183]

2012 fjc 6sp full time 4wd. Im running bilstien 5100 on the top setting. No front anti sway bar. I can hear and feel the driver side cv bind during a left hand turn through a intersection. I've learned a lot from your channel. I removed the the d/s taco lean spacer and it helped a little but I believe limiting straps will be the remedy

[@TinkerersAdventure]

Do you have aftermarket CV axles? Like ones from autozone/Napa? Most of aftermarket axles below $500 each has different joint design all together. So they have much less angle capability.

[@isaacprice6633]

I don't own a Toyota but I have a GMC with IFS and a solid rear axle but these videos are incredibly helpful for planning out my build

[@JonnyDIY]

Great video, thanks for sharing. Now I don't have to install that diff spacer thats been kickin round my tool box last 5 years 🤣 PS- Jason explains sent me 💕👍

[@ad14det84]

Very informative video. Hope to see more content!

[@bmurphy386]

This man Know's his stuff. Thank you for the knowledge.

[@petersmee7283]

Great video, I'd like to know your opinion on welded front diff vs locker.

[@cogentdynamics]

You have the best 4wd content on youtube! Thank you.

[@flamensherd]

so informative. really liked the funny bits at the end haha

[@DanielDiaz-qr7hp]

Excellent as always. Our FJ group refers to you as the FJ Guru and you prove it with each new video. Maestro!

[@hiluxmax2709]

The problem you guys in the USA have is that you guys still use "spacer" style diff drops. Which rotates the diff slightly forward and due to the rear mount being fixed still, gives you less than 0.5" of actual CV shaft reprieve. Here in Australia, we replace the whole set of diff mount arms that lower the diff 32mm - over an inch evenly. Not only that but there are strength benefits to be had as with the spacer drops, you're still using the factory arms which are prone to bending in low range high load situations. The replacement arm diff drops we use here in Oz, the RHF mount I'd also braced between both the front and rear crossmembers, which significantly increases strength and alleviates the mount bending issues the factory mounts are prone to. Our mounts reduce proper CV angle, thus providing additional strength and reliability, plus with longer coilovers, a good inch of downtravel is achievable.

[@lukestoyz]

What’s the name of the website that sells them?

[@agentchowdown4938]

Who sells the arm style diff drops?

[@slipknoter106]

Excellent explanation, you earned a like and subscribe. Great stuff my dude!!

[@tacodeoscar2304]

You’re a gift from the Toyota gods! Keep up the good work, I’m excited to see this channel grow.

[@user-ht6gy9kg7b]

Again, a very good video🤙🏼 you should post your off-road videos as well👍🏻

[@kellstat]

Good stuff. I would like to see some videos on specific models, such as LC200!

[@brett9382]

This came out at the perfect time. I'm going to be buying some front coilovers for my 07 fj cruiser this black Friday Planning on doing a 2in lift/leveling and was wondering if I should do the diff drop. After watching this I won't bother doing one.

[@trailrunnah8886]

Another awesome video! I always look forward to these, and I send them to friends with Toyota's. Not going to lie though, every time I watch one of these, the main takeaway I get is if I decide to build my 4Runner into a trail rig, first step is trade it for something with a solid front axle lol.

[@modarkthemauler]

Second step is fit portals on those solid axles.

[@mikelam]

Learned a lot thanks! Can we see a video on sway parts? Extended links and drop kits?

[@franksta2006yeah]

Just found this channel. This has been super helpful with factual information.