More Linux Stats + Are we Losing Devs? + Updates

The last week has been fun for the Linux News receiving all sort of open source statistics on linux projects over the previous year. including commits for Linux kernel dev. Projects are starting to stagnate and dev is slowing..
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Wayland Taking over Linux - • Wayland Is Taking Over...
#linux #tech #pc

[@SavvyNik]

Do you think we'll see more/less dev in 2025?

[@justincase9471]

We'll have to get rid of the CoC and we have to prepare for Linus' retirement. I'm afraid that the blue haired wokies will take over completely once he is gone. Is there any news on the development of GNU/Hurd? 😅

[@DV-ml4fm]

I don't know. But if linux is dying, I'll move to freebsd full time.

[@ultimatechallenge-ti2rc]

@@justincase9471 get lost fascist

[@MrBelles104]

@@justincase9471 I don't know much about governance, what is bad about the Code of Conduct in Linux?

[@justincase9471]

@@MrBelles104 It's the law used by these woke clowns to kick out awesome developers. The CoC was introduced to make the community less toxic, more safespace etc all created by kids that can't control their feelings. The CoC has brought nothing but worthless discussions about gender and politics. It adds zero value to the actual development of the Kernel.

[@thefearlessgeek]

Wayland isn't exactly competing with Xorg. Wayland is intended to be the replacement for Xorg. Development of Xorg has been winding down for some time, with the developers focusing more on Wayland instead.

[@sdovhfunlahsvisegbakshfjbs4621]

Indeed. And as long as Wayland can't update the HW cursor independently to avoid stuttering at high GPU load, I won't replace Xorg on our productivity machines. Gaming is fine though as this rarely matters. The more pressing issue is that certain distros want to ditch Xorg - prematurely, IMO.

[@Vitis-n2v]

​@@sdovhfunlahsvisegbakshfjbs4621cursor stutter isn't the only issue. If you have high cpu load then wayland is less responsive than xorg. I noticed it on a 13year old dual core laptop with intel hd2000 igpu when cpu load goes over 95% wayland completely freezes during screen updates and sometimes even for multiple seconds. Xorg in the same scenario still redraws at least 30 times a second vsynced with compositing. I know it's a "ancient" system but if the hardware supports the needed APIs i'd expect it to run well which it unfortunately does not.

[@TheUAoB]

@@Vitis-n2v Presumably, you're talking about mutter? Not all compositors are made equal.

[@Vitis-n2v]

@@TheUAoB No i tried KDE wayland, Sway and Hyprland and all of them exhibited the same behavior on the machine so it seems like it's more of a wayland thing. Wayland by definition waits for "perfect frame" before displaying it to prevent screen tearing. But if some program takes way too long to render it can stall the redraw of the whole screen. But whether the behavior is actually because of that i'm not sure.

[@TheUAoB]

@@Vitis-n2v There's no reason why 'every frame is perfect' should produce that effect, since it just means each client should be tear-free, it doesn't delay desktop composition. Most likely whatever you're using is utilising a toolkit which has a single-threaded event handler which is blocking, that's why it affects all compositors, but not Xorg since it will be using a completely different event handler.

[@xseman]

Measuring progress by counting commits doesn’t make much sense. A commit could be one line or thousands, and both are treated the same. Plus, commits are often squashed, especially as it becomes more common to tidy up histories by combining them into one commit per feature. A better way to measure a project’s health is by looking at how fast issues are resolved, how well releases are tested, and how many bugs are introduced. Fewer commits can also mean the project is mature and complete, which is a good thing, not a sign of stagnation.

[@MrBelles104]

Yeah, responsiveness is a better metric, but keeping that in mind while looking at the statistics available is the best we have in this video.

[@MartinWoad]

​@@MrBelles104I wouldn't say it is the best metric we have as it can be worse than not looking at any stats - it can be misleading and counterproductive.

[@JonLikesStats]

Xorg and Wayland share many of the same developers. It is not a competition: replacing Xorg is the goal.

[@krunkle5136]

Wayland isn't viable as a replacement still after 15 years.

[@turanamo]

If Linux brings politics to development and discriminates against people from different countries expect to lose more devs.

[@SavvyNik]

Yeah it was a wild year for Linux Linux 2024 Review.. Drama, Hacks, & Growth kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZ6zkHVviNNnjJI

[@alpacamale2909]

We all know the problematic people in the linux community isn't foreigners (if that means anything on the internet)

[@wikwayer]

Funny how the Americans can push inclusivity to bring of segregation ​@@alpacamale2909

[@gustavojoaquin_arch]

Linux has gone woke

[@Krushx0]

They already had problem with their uncetrelized unstandardized tribalistic structure and attitude with shattered landscape which is the distro mess. Now politics in the play. Cool. Personally I think they would have been end up better with capitalism angle compared to political at least it has a backbone that is money which has a value unlike this mental ill woke BS.

[@docopoper]

I've gotta say, that looks a lot more like a plateau than a decline to me.

[@RakibHasan-hs1me]

Multiple Govt of Nations use Linux instead of Linux. I don't understand what this video saying?

[@Sezamn]

@@RakibHasan-hs1me linux instead of linux??

[@asphalt2554]

@Sezamn hes having a stroke

[@hopelessdecoy]

Code lines are not a good metric for work done. Coding metrics in general are hard to measure. 1 line of code could have taken days of testing and tweaking or could of been swapping out a critical json file generated by a different change.

[@levo75]

Could have been. Not could of been. ❤

[@antonf.9278]

​@@levo75While I am personally in favor of using some kind of standardized english everywhere, many people value their local language or accent. Let them be.

[@ericritter46]

I don't feel loose? I am definitely lost, though.

[@_Lumiere_]

There are ways to change that, I hear

[@polinskitom2277]

If linux devs are declining, and no one's working on the kernel everyday, I guess I can finally mark linux as a stable OS

[@gustavojoaquin_arch]

No, stability is for liberals, everything must accelerate to the future FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER 5

[@comosaycomosah]

Underrated comment lol

[@iamwitchergeraltofrivia9670]

Its all working except windows kernel cve malware

[@leezhieng]

stable kernel, maybe, but not stable user space, far from it.

[@comosaycomosah]

@@leezhieng I'm a stable user

[@antinatalope]

Well, it's not a morale booster when C devs are constantly told they are dinosaurs for the tools they use.

[@Semmelboy]

Finally Debian updated it's user setup, I really hate going through a whole GUI installer and ending up with a non-sudo-able user

[@mrmiyagi5]

We are getting old and tired (not only from Linux but the weight of the world) and it is making things difficult all together while the younger generations are not stepping up.

[@sciencedaemon]

No, we are getting bombarded with leftist, commie tyrants forcing CoC (Code of Communism) on us.

[@renelindsay9469]

At 55 seconds, the sentence: "We are no longer building an installer for armel and i386 architectures", did you mean "Atmel"?

[@pcheintz7264]

I would point out that it is possible people are finding less bugs or are more comfortable with the existing code, or both. I agree with others, and a programmer myself, counting commits is not really the best way to figure this. Linux is not the neophite OS that it was 10-20 years ago, it has grown a lot, and far, far more features are fully implemented.

[@RolandHiscutt-r9k]

Maybe certain flavours of Linux but Linux itself wont die out. Regarding gaming Zorin Educational is really good for gaming as it works with Easy anti cheat.

[@DavidAlsh]

I'd love to work on Linux but I can't afford to work without a salary 😞. No idea how to get a salary position to work on Linux projects

[@xanderplayz3446]

If you want to work on Linux, you could do stuff like porting applications at your job to Linux.

[@DavidAlsh]

@xanderplayz3446 we actually already maintain Linux support for our project

[@pyrotek45]

its losing, not loosing. loose is the opposite of tight.

[@SavvyNik]

Got a little to loose with this o’s 🤣

[@Winnetou17]

@@SavvyNik *too loose 😄

[@SavvyNik]

😂 whoooops

[@alucardhellsing9640]

loosey lucy

[@NolaanOne]

The Chinese and Russians were pretty much kicked out, so that's a self-inflected wound.

[@LaSpookyEXE]

Didnt us law force Linus to kick them out

[@xanderplayz3446]

@@LaSpookyEXEYes.

[@skygradient6248]

Probably more, because SteamOS is about to (officially) drop for generic PCs

[@Romactu]

Hello @SavvyNik I don't we're losing developers so far, they may be either need some break which it's very important or their letting AI to do the thing. I even heard people said the year 2025 will suck compared to 2020 which it's now 5 years ago. Not sure if using AI for development is a great idea anyways. I'm a little concern if they're using AI. Luckily, it won't be like the movie "The Terminator by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer", it'll be a lot different that that.

[@mawnkey]

We need to be gatekeeping the people driving off all the devs.

[@sciencedaemon]

That is anyone supporting CoC (Code of Communism).

[@krunkle5136]

People crap on X11 being old yet use a system that is roughly derived from a 70s time sharing operating system. This stuff is just going to get older, but that doesn't mean bad automatically. I thought Linux was great for older hardware support. Is that tossed out the window?

[@ismaelvc3728]

How can it die if this year is the year of the Linux desktop! TM

[@boomboxwagon]

lets goooo happy new year

[@damianateiro]

I guess firing developers for being Russian doesn't help other people want to get involved, if they are going to run the risk of being expelled for their country of origin or their political ideas.

[@mariniack]

They didn't firing russians, only people that somehow connected to the russian military. russian who working in redhat or canonical for example continues to work.

[@leezhieng]

@@mariniack they automatically ban all users with .ru email adress. zero proof they're connected to the russian military.

[@Ethorbit]

@mariniack As if that somehow makes the situation better or excusable? Militaries around the world heavily shape Linux into what it is, you cannot just ban a military and expect everything to be ok.

[@mariniack]

@Ethorbit yes but i feel this russian military every day... What can you say about other military does they attack other peaceful countries ?

[@alain-m2t]

Linux and open source is the only viable option against big brother surveillance: microsoft, google, ...

[@burtonrodman]

“losing” is so passive, like it’s not someone’s fault.

[@sbmb9613]

noise ... the concerning part is how many things keep breaking. nothing insured.

[@tristen_grant]

What keeps breaking?

[@sbmb9613]

just in the past year, the kernel build failed like 4 times, nvidia patch was required for a while for anything 6.12+. broadcom drivers also broke for a very long time, I mean months of broken hardware drivers and it was more than once, since they wanted to push for wifi 7 support, that broke a bunch, then later with new kernel patches required. Wayland had quite a bit of incompatibility with nvidia. thankfully its fixed now, but in total this year the nixos-unstable broke 35 times for me. a lot of it was the kernel's fault.

[@tristen_grant]

@@sbmb9613 Sounds to me like you should be on the LTS kernel (or another kernel) and possible use X11. For me, personally I'm using X11 because I need colour management support (color calibration isn't fully supported) and Krita isn't fully supported on Wayland. I'm also using the Liquorix kernel for better audio production support. Linux has so many options.

[@anasouardini]

Meanwhile in Debian 12: - `i3-wm` has memory leak - `sxhkd` stops working from time to time and I have to: `pkill x` - Alacritty shows an annoying error saying: "too many opened files, can't read config file" - X11 just crashes with an error of "too many clients"

[@xanderplayz3446]

Trixie worked perfectly for me. You should try it, even if it may be in the “testing” phase, but it is ohsomuch better than Bookworm.

[@sman6320]

Still no version of Linux for my Samsung Galaxy Book 4 Edge with a Snapdragon X Elite processor.

[@FirstNameLastName-xe4mx]

Instead of waiting for it to happen, why not make it happen yourself brother.

[@sman6320]

@FirstNameLastName-xe4mx I would if I could. And I think it needs more than one person to make it happen anyway.

[@donkey7921]

@@sman6320 why did you ever think it was going to get it? Snapdragon is very unlikely to be supported, same as intel macbooks with t2 chips.

[@FirstNameLastName-xe4mx]

@@sman6320 bro you have to believe in yourself, it may take some time but I believe you will get there.

[@rigobertoitachijohnson]

you should blame Samsung, ARM Trustzone and the process of porting Linux with just a few files from the Device Tree (which most of the time are proprietary)

[@mikepeligro]

The volume of your video is very low, something that you can easily fix with Audacity.

[@SavvyNik]

hmm I haven't heard of this from anyone yet and I do use post processing tools in davinci to normalize to yt optimal value

[@summerWTFE]

Politics.

[@Genomerio]

Such a clickbaity title does you no favors my dude.

[@bleack8701]

That outro is so Emily D Baker

[@tristen_grant]

Who is Emily D Baker?

[@kocokan]

Devs are loosing the grip

[@DontFollowZim]

Well... that was a pretty pointless watch...

[@SkyFly19853]

That's another reason why I switched to BSD... BSD is much much better and has the potential.

[@Wkaelx]

No Steam.

[@RustIsWinning]

Good one mr windows developer 😂

[@SkyFly19853]

@@RustIsWinning You meant to PythonUsefulthanRust Developer ?... ops... I know I speak the truth again.. 🤔😏

[@SkyFly19853]

@@Wkaelx There are ways to do it by clients.

[@Cyco_Nix]

I do love me some BSD, but it just isn't there for me and all that I do. I used UNIX before Linux existed and have played around with BSD over the years, but just not for me. But, absolutely use what works for you and what you like. That is what is great about the FOSS world.

[@AURON2401]

As a programmer myself, i don't think of it as a permanent slowdown, just we're focusing on the details. Since there isn't as many things to write, there isnt as many people needed to do said programming.

[@ZappyOh]

Woke = Broke ... even for free software

[@tristen_grant]

To me, "woke" means being aware of the things around you. Knowing and acknowledging LGBTQIA+ people, people with disabilities, people of different beliefs, backgrounds, etc. I don't see being "woke" as a bad thing. Why be blind to the things around you?

[@ZappyOh]

@@tristen_grant To me woke means, codifying rules for attitudes and behavior, and enforcing them by bans, expulsions, and sometimes worse. It is a blunt and intolerant idea. The woke crowd is seemingly unhappy that humanity consists of people with diverse mindsets, lifestyles and ideas. They want everyone to think and act as one.

[@tristen_grant]

@ZappyOh Interesting. I agree that banning things for no good reason (often because you don't want to teach your children) is bad. I often hear "woke' being used as an insult toward those who talk about trans people or other identities.

[@ZappyOh]

​@@tristen_grant Yes ... Those are part of the woke crowd. Seeking to force everyone to accept their way of life and thinking ... or else. No room for discussion or opposition of any kind. It's exhausting and very counterproductive. Live and let live is my motto. If people want to be prejudiced, let them, otherwise you are the one stirring up trouble.

[@tristen_grant]

@ZappyOh Well said.

[@nathsabari97]

kids are growing up on ipads and playing fortnite and roblox. They don't know what steam is let alone linux

[@MyAmazingUsername]

Yes we are losing devs rapidly and it's entirely thanks to the purity brigade monsters invading our space.

[@xavi_6767]

You simply dont bring politics to open source. Please!

[@yaroslav7328]

Those Russians were banned not because they are Russian, but because they worked for Russian military companies. When you wake up to the sound of air alerts, and your city is under attack by rockets developed by Russian state companies where those so-called innocent developers work, you begin to change your perspective.

[@Tokagawa89]

It's open sourced. Americans have created backdoors into the kernel that had to be patched up in the past. There's going to be bad actors of course but being open sourced means anyone can audit the code and makes it more difficult to mess with it. Where a person is from or who they work for doesn't matter. Making FOSS transcends boarders and to instill division due to people's ethnicity or race and nationality isn't part of it.

[@ryonagana]

@@yaroslav7328 just fork kernel, add drivers for military gadgets there's no escape dude

[@ash1kh]

It should.. 😂 let all the development has been done by Linus the 1diot himself and toss the political salad between him and his friend.

[@Da1its0Uf8oma]

I think it's time for Companies to pay these developers, who immensely benefited from their work for free. Let the free market and capitalism take their own course.

[@MrSiseris]

Crapitalism is how we got windows 11. Do you really want that? The free market made the Microsoft monopoly.

[@Krushx0]

​@@MrSiserisno, capitalism without competition do this and not capitalism itself. Yeah before anyone try to argue macos is not an alternative in this it's too well gardened with its hardware and limiting os, just like ps5 for example.

[@Da1its0Uf8oma]

@@MrSiseris Free market stopped in 2008 with those artificial bailouts. There is no capitalism or free market now. they are just words. My point is most open source dev's are working in their free time as passion and these companies are immensely benefited from their work. let the people who do the actual work get paid and live a decent life.

[@tonywalker8030]

What if we go over the codes with ai and rust ? Wouldn't solving problems improve the performance ?

[@xanderplayz3446]

AI might as well be a marketing buzzword. It can’t generate good enough code for something that powers basically every server.

[@LinguisticMirage]

I was a linux fan up until they rewrote their life to rust. I get it its safe. But we want thing to be useable. Good example windows

[@LaSpookyEXE]

Making it more user friendly more important that using the latest coding language and choosing something g stable

[@xanderplayz3446]

How does Rust impact usability?

[@xanderplayz3446]

@@LaSpookyEXEFun fact: Most stuff that needs to be user friendly and is interacted with by users is userspace, outside of the kernel. I hope you realize that Linux isn’t as monolithic as you think.

[@LinguisticMirage]

@@xanderplayz3446 cuz they dont focus on making the thing good no instead they rewrite it. Its nothing related to rust. Its related to making the thing good

[@dmknght8946]

Tried building something written in rust. It either ended up compiler version is not compatible, or failed at compiling any random library from internet. It's developer / package maintainer unfriendly.

[@yaroslav7328]

To all those who are complaining about the removal of "innocent" Russian developers from working on the Linux kernel. Those Russians were banned not because they are Russian, but because they worked for Russian military companies (though all Russians bear responsibility for this war). When you wake up to the sound of air alerts, and your city is under attack by rockets developed by Russian state companies where those so-called innocent developers work, you begin to change your perspective.

[@Ethorbit]

As if that somehow makes the situation better or excusable? Militaries around the world heavily shape Linux into what it is, you cannot just ban a military and expect everything to be ok.

[@antoniomartinez1799]

And what about the people they banned because they complain about the decision? Some were Americans. Besides they removed all Russians or what, all Russians developers were into military? And the reasons given for Linus never mentioned that what you are thinking about.

[@alodwich]

strange double standards. Remove all the developers having ties to the western military-industrial complex and you'll be left with hardly one left.

[@yaroslav7328]

@@alodwich Yeah, strange double standards. People connected to Western military companies aren't being blamed for the atrocities Russian forces are committing in Ukraine and Syria, for example.

[@alodwich]

@@yaroslav7328 you got it all wrong. If your said standards hold any truth, they should, but are not, blamed for the atrocities in Japan, Serbia, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, ..., incl. what Bandera Ukros did to the Russians. You should get out of the childish thinking that the Russians are somehow randomly aggressive. They are absolutely not. But the western over-confidence and narcissism (and I forgot what I did yesterday attitude), and fantastic fairy tale telling, results in an annoying impudence that is making the west genuinely randomly dangerous to the world. If there is any standard at all, all westerners associated with military technology and Linux should be removed from the project or non at all. Agreed? But Linus is just a typical representative of western arrogant attitudes. He removed people just because they were Russian and no other reason at all - he was honest about it somewhere in his posts.

[@RakibHasan-hs1me]

No. End of discussion

[@nhanNguyen-wo8fy]

When they discriminated against Russian developers, I was like. Bro The US army lost 2 trillion USD, so they manipulated a radical Islamic group, attacked themselves, and then blamed it on midle East and Islam. So they could invade a bunch of countries. Push a bilion of people into war zones, hundreds of millions died while strengthening the Petro-dollars system, and profit of selling weapons. I mean, when all of that happen, I have never had the slightest idea to blame Microsoft and Google for it. 🤣😂 Even now, if Europe Court punishes Aple ( a company I don't like) for Banana Republic. For everyone who doesn't know, it's the early day of the US backyard policy. This is where the US invented Colony 2.0 they experimented and perfected the method of using finance to colonize and enslave people. Do some research about the Banana Republic. There are about 2 genocide and the genius and evil of the strategy will blow your mind. Again, if Europe somehow punishes Apple for it, I will be screaming "THIS IS OUTRAGEOU". 🤣😂

[@DM31415]

That stats are fake, most people use xorg no matter what they says.

[@tristen_grant]

Source? Seems like at least some are using Wayland.

[@DM31415]

@tristen_grant sure some people use Wayland I'm not argueing that. But when the users have to use some applications that force them to use xorg they simply stay with xorg.

[@krunkle5136]

Xorg works, and people are making fun of the Linux world for introducing another option for getting graphics on a screen.

[@subarutendou]

If they keep purging, I will lose interest in linux and only play gba games. I'm so tired of all the politics.

[@ultimatechallenge-ti2rc]

Learn how to bait better. What a nothing burger video.

[@gustavojoaquin_arch]

RedoxOS is just better, linux is death

[@saadhabashneh5587]

Then why do you use arch ?

[@gustavojoaquin_arch]

@saadhabashneh5587 because Redox isn't complete yet, but I will switch to Redox when it release the version 1.0

[@alpacamale2909]

People choosing AMD are either naive or don't work with graphics. Still it's nice to see people betting for the Underdog.

[@Wkaelx]

AMD's marketing is doing much better than intel's nowadays.

[@Cyco_Nix]

AMD over Intel for CPUs not Nvidia for GPU. Intel screwed themselves on the CPU side this year and AMD has become a better option in many ways, especially on laptops. As far as working with graphics, the vast majority do not work with graphics.

[@alpacamale2909]

@@Cyco_Nix Yeah I meant amd vs nvidia no amd vs intel. I think now that the gaming frontier has been achieved and linux gaming is amazing devs should focus on bringing down adobe and autodesk.

[@Cyco_Nix]

@@alpacamale2909 I thought that might be what you meant. Agreed, would love nothing more than bringing down adobe, autodesk, and all like them. I use both AMD and Nvidia on Linux. Nvidia since I do LLM an other work that really needs CUDA. AMD on my home system that is more for gaming, with just a little work on LLM.

[@Ethorbit]

NVIDIA doesn't provide open source drivers like AMD does, which means the experience on Linux is more pleasant with AMD than it is with NVIDIA. I've already had to deal with annoying NVIDIA problems on my Linux gaming rig such as screen flickering for certain games that run inside Gamescope, so now I can't use Gamescope for those games all because I am using NVIDIA.