More PROOF: CONTEST affects TIMING? Part 2

[@SxmmyRose]

😂 i busted out laughing seeing my comment in the vid,, keep up the good work tutes

[@SxmmyRose]

one thing i suggest checking out if you haven't,, Last year i could get the opponent just barely out of my sights and quickly pull a fade,, but this year blinders doesn't seem to be quite as effective , i can no longer just throw up a fade when they're on my side. are there certain situations where you benefit more from blinders?

[@matthewcraig1790]

Speed ups happen though, I shoot very late on wide open shots randomly as a 60% 3 point shooter. Unexplained.

[@nba2ktutes]

Yes, they happen but not because of the contest. It's a bug that usually happens at the corners. Still not sure why they happen though

[@anthonymarshall3396]

Hey! ​@@nba2ktutesat 3:22 in the video, where it was paused, it clearly shows that portions of the animation were changed/or cut out... The "covered" shot, starts at chest height, while the "open" shot starts at waist height.

[@nba2ktutes]

@@anthonymarshall3396 those gather animations depends on how early you press the shoot button + some randomness. It's not related to contest. You can take 10 open shots and you still will probably have a lot of different types of gather animations.

[@toddty11]

@@nba2ktutesI have shots being slowed down wide open coming off a screen. Not everytime and that’s what makes it noticeable to me. Any idea why that might be? My guess is it tells me I’m wide open but it’s registering one of the defenders or late defense maybe.

[@killacole3578]

Very lates tend to be packet loss related. 2k servers suck

[@carsoncody405]

What seems to me to be different are all the small animations right before a shot such as catch and shoot animations or dribble pull ups. All these animations seem to transition to the shot at different speeds. So if im running and catch the ball and shoot it will seem to take longer to get to my release than standing in place with the ball already in my hands. If you dont know what the animation is going to be like you might mess up your timing. Biggest problem by far are the green windows themselves. Just looking at your player in the video the windows on open shots are way too small for “professional athletes”.

[@blAZinSports4k]

Ya they're in a woerd spot with 2K rn, ever since implementing the Green or miss mechanic, it's been a bit odd, still love the game tho! That's only because I mod on PC and don't play online 😂othwerwise id be like every other sour MF complaining about the game all the time, yet somehow they still be playing it, all the time 😂

[@xFlacoTheDon13]

If you think about it, the timing that we have built as muscle memory does change. You can release a “wide open” shot and hit the early edge green window. But when you shoot an “open” or “contested” shot the green window shrinks accordingly. Which makes you believe that you need to release the shot a little longer to hit the smaller green window. So in conclusion, Tutes I agree with you. Contests (green window shrinking) is what’s giving people the impression that their shot is being slowed down. BUT the random late and very late that we get when wide open is definitely a bug smh 😪

[@nba2ktutes]

I see what you mean but that shrinking of green window is too small to be noticed in real time (we're talking about 5-10 ms shrink) . Yes it may be a small factor but I think the bigger factor is the visual illusion that the defender gives.

[@xFlacoTheDon13]

@@nba2ktutes think about it tho, do you really think shooters won’t notice it even if it is a 5-10ms shrink difference? That’s like (hypothetically) if my green window is 30ms but the contest makes it 20ms i feel like we’d be able to feel the difference if we still release on the early edge (30ms) green window. That’s what will cause some people to say “im releasing my shot the same way but missing”. But yea i think the visual illusion of the defender does also play a factor

[@nba2ktutes]

@@xFlacoTheDon13 I like your enthusiasm on the discussion! A typical jumpshot is around 600 ms (that's the total time players hold shoot button before releasing). I just don't think that taking away 10 ms on that 600 ms will be noticeable. If we scale that down, it's like taking away 1ms on a 60ms hold. That's too small.

[@xFlacoTheDon13]

@@nba2ktutes ahh ok ok i see what’s you’re saying. I understand. And yea it’s because i’ve pride myself in being a great shooter in every single 2k i’ve played 😅. So i want to make sure i completely understand the mechanics

[@z00ko]

It’s not a bug Tutes. It’s programmed in the game to stop zen players from constantly ms perfect timing contested shots or modded controllers based on positioning. And we players play on release & play off cue at the highest level or shot iq knowledge before we take the shot. The best shooters in the game with the best results all day the shot timings do vary. You’re looking at it from an isolated test but that’s not how humans work. We input buffer we preemptively put in dribble moves or combos in order for the game to work and function correctly. And that is why shot variance is a real thing. Because we have to time things to come out of quick stops or dribble moves at the earliest cancel animation frame. So if you stand still and do this simple test ofc it’ll look like that but do that exact same test with a moving defender and you doing the same moving dribble move (kemba walker escape cross speedboost) and see if the timing doesn’t change based on the defenders location. And all great catch and shooters play with embidd triple threat style so it eliminates some of those funky speed up looking animations from using more explosive jabs for the cost of shooting more consistently. In short I get what you’re saying in the small test you’re doing but it’s not right in game terms. Contests do change your timing. Based off the gather (which we agree on) based off player positioning (doesn’t even have to have a hand up), and based off of angles of contests that force a shot that would normally be a green or slightly early or late due to window shrinkage now be a late or early. That’s what I’m saying. And you can’t say it’s not true because we do it on purpose at the highest level and pg’s will all say “dang he gave me a speed up” that speed up is due to the contest system, and even if it was a bug, it’s a very consistent bug if we use it to play hedge or show defense. Not only that put another thing we agree on is certain contest giving their own base gather animation completely outside of your equipped base to cause speed ups or slow downs compared to the timing of your equipped jumper. All of that means shot contests CHANGES your timing. You’re choosing one format to say it doesn’t and that’s just misleading because the best players in the world say it does and we all know how to use and abuse the contest system to force misses. So do this exact same test but add moving parts to it. Might be harder to set up but try it and watch the results I also hit extremely contested shots as a pg on the regular with my jumper so contest won’t give me a placebo I know you can make congested shots this year. I have clips of exactly that and know where and how to customize the location of the center green window. And yet it’s still the conclusion of me and many other great shooters

[@madmonq5527]

Big paragraphs but it all checks out. I’ve played all year on either a 6’6 or a 6’4 sg or pg and can 100% say a late close out feels exactly the same as a wide open shot and you’ll get 30-80% contest. Greening at least one 50% a game is my new hobby.

[@jameswatson9559]

Good info tutes! Once you understand the speed ups and slow downs of animations you start to figure out what's causing the changes making them more predictable. Some animations are purely RNG but become more predictable such as dexing and PnRs. When done correctly you can actually feel 2k moving your player to the correct position and giving a significant boost to shot timing.

[@PeakedYrsAgo]

I have a couple things for everyone. 1)It doesn’t change your timing, get good. 2) What makes a good 2k for you all? I’m an abnormality. I never watched or played basketball growing up, but my friend one day said “You like overwatch, try 2k.” I started 2k19, and loved it. For me only 2k19 and 2k23 were really fun games. The others were ok, (I think I disliked 20) but this year was just bad. Defense was too easy and good (coming from a lock), they keep taking things away like shoot around in pro am, the badge regression system was stupid, took away customizing your body type and put it behind a grind wall in the Gatorade. I miss having a mycourt I could customize, this is a basketball game. I don’t care about some fashion or music story line in my career. Idk just wanted to put my thoughts somewhere, and was wondering everyone else’s since you all will have a drastically different perspective.

[@z00ko]

The best shooters in the world all say the same thing. It changes the gather which means it changes the timing. So yes it does. Show me how good you are at the game then I’ll believe your opinion and how good you shoot

[@PeakedYrsAgo]

@@z00koim better than 99% of the 2k community, but I literally just have confidence and consistently green contested shots. These “best players” are still ignorant. (As is most of the 2k community.) ping difference, fps count, refresh rate, controller quality, etc. THESE can have an effect on your shot timing, leaving to believe it changes for the actual timing. but on lan in a controlled environment I literally could plug in a zen and it would work 100% of the time.

[@fearlessknine3510]

If the timing doesn't change, but the green window closes-that makes sense. Still, I think NBA2K should force people with similar shooting percentages to play against each other. Cheating devices would probably green everything anyway. If contests don't affect timing, it just means we've mastered our shot on the wrong part of the green window instead of the middle make percentage.

[@JayUpSix]

Fire test, but please do a test on euro dunks or hop step dunks and if they have increased contact dunk percentage. Also a test on if you can consistently do a hop step scoop, cuz I did a hop step in the facility and turned it into a scoop

[@nba2ktutes]

Thanks for the suggestion!

[@MisterTimBoii]

I get insane contest animations at times where my player almost falls down and is impossible to time my shot and It will say it’s a 6% contest

[@tfrtee]

Tutes I've been wanting to talk to u about full bars that don't register as green. I had a jumpshot test early in the year that i did, and after the test I knew that anytime I had a full bar with specific jumpshots it would be a green. When 2k24 had those 2 back to back updates around Thanksgiving time, i have no longer been able to replicate these results. This makes me believe that the pure green window is no longer a thing. I would love to talk with u about this

[@xFlacoTheDon13]

I also noticed this in the very beginning of the year. Made me believe that “you can green your shot everytime” was bs. That the pure green window was bs also. There’s literally times where i time my shot correctly but the game makes me miss

[@xFlacoTheDon13]

So in other words the game glitches giving you random speed ups and slow downs when you’re open or get contested. Giving us the impression that someone’s contest or close out on our jumpshot effects the timing of our shot. Your shot timing can also glitch if you’re wide open… Lol 2k is sad 😭

[@nba2ktutes]

yes

[@RiccoMyles]

The video to me shows a difference in animation timing when shooting. That means that the shot meter moves at the same speed, but the animation could speed up or slow down a bit causing anyone thay shoots off of animations to begin to miss shots. The hand position of the shooter 100% covered and wide open that you freeze framed are different. If when wide open The green window and shot speed sync with me letting the button go as soon as I pull the ball to my face changes by speeding or slowing down the animation making it out of sync with shot meter, that will cause a problem thay shouldn't occur. People arent being awarded anymore for shooting with no meter.

[@Anabiosised]

im 100% sure mike wang commented that they took out speed ups, so youre right tutes. i think though sometimes people may not set thier feet or trigger different animations which reesult in different timings but not speed ups

[@douglashearon4823]

It’s a very good topic because 2K25 will be on the engine. So what I mean by that tutes is the from what the devs have said and those that are in the know. 2K goes in three year intervals without any significant changes. Maybe this is a topic that you can address . Meaning what changes we can realistically expect for 2K25 based on what the Devs have at their controls. Environment? Gameplay? Movement?

[@blacklotus875]

i have a 99 3pt build. im not seeing that online. Mixed results. 2k are the biggest sc*mmers ever.

[@blackdominique]

So there are speed ups in the game. Thanks for confirming that I am not crazy.

[@DewtheDew91]

But if it’s a 100% green window, why do you miss. You should still hit the shot right? You filled the meter, which is perfect timing. So that means 2k removes the green window like they do on some close shots where it is a zero percent chance of going in?

[@michaelaltpeter9293]

This test was based on a jump close out where the defense pressed y/triangle but I feel like I get a slow down when the defender sprints out with hand up not jumping

[@J-God_1999]

Did you already test HEATCHECK boost? And how you can get the boost in game? Layups, dunks, shots, etc?

[@therealaj2]

For what? This information is readily available.

[@J-God_1999]

@@therealaj2 Where is this information readily available? 2ks website?? send me a link then

[@Robo311Star]

In Tutes I trust. Now until I stop giving Take2 my money.

[@ProtoJthekid]

Wide open and open is 2 different timings open is a a faster timing

[@toddty11]

I think the contest system is broken. I think Radom things register sometimes so the game gives you a different shot sometimes. It’s weird because I trust the testing but just like so many others I’m noticing the change in jump shots even from the top. Especially coming off a screen where I’m wide open

[@Drizzayee]

Thts 100% is really open see how far he jumps from thts why ur shot doesn’t change

[@nba2ktutes]

it's 100% covered, look at 2:23

[@unknown183]

BTW if you're making 100% covered shots, you're a cheat device user. IDC what he or she says. Making 100% covered shots is lame and should NEVER happen.

[@JayUpSix]

Sumbody gonna say it happen all da time irl(it do, kinda not all the time at all) but it’s hard asl to get a 100 smothered on a non lock

[@fearlessknine3510]

@unknown183, If what Tutes says is true. We might be saying the same thing in different ways. I think there's a sliver of a chance that if you precisely mastered your animation at the middle make, you can hit anything-especially with one of those goated bases like T-Mac.

[@unknown183]

@@JayUpSix I saw someone go 9/10 for 3 smothered even when doubled and was still hitting. Yeah, pal. No cheat device. Right.

[@unknown183]

@@fearlessknine3510 If you have a high shoot attribute, should you be making most of your shots, absolutely. But, if you are getting smothered up on defense and still manage to hit without any missed, that's just insane and not good at all, if that's the case, what's the point?

[@BlackRaider827]

I'm with @unknown183 on this one

[@MC_631]

I swear year after year, season after season, month after month, this gaming community finds SOMETHING to complain about this game LOL

[@brentweaver3743]

100% doesn't change timing because there's no green window. When there is still a chance to green it it changes time

[@nba2ktutes]

mate, what else you want me to do for you to believe that it doesn't change timing? haha

[@Marleyboi47]

Nice video 💪🏿

[@tfrtee]

I thought that's where the pure green window is supposed to shine and if u really know ur jumpshot u could still green. Cuz on that 100% contested shot, if that's not within the pure green window then idk what is.

[@xFlacoTheDon13]

100% contest = no green window

[@nba2ktutes]

on a 100% contest, pure green window should be really really small. If you see a full bar visually, it doesn't always mean you hit the middle of the green window.

[@unknown183]

If many would just take better shots whether they hit or miss, the 2K community would be a better place. I hate when many force up shots. The toxicity is out of control.

[@beluga2342]

wouldnt be a "forced" shot if contests werent broken af

[@unknown183]

@@beluga2342 See right there, that's the problem. We want to blame 2K for contest being broken but yet we won't take ownership for taking stupid forced shots. Case is closed my boy.

[@thehooper6499]

Most toxic community is the nba 2k community.

[@nba2ktutes]

It still has a chance. I could still minimize it into some degree if I debunk stuff and explain how things work.