More PROOF they hate the books and fans, WHEEL OF TIME Aviendha casting

[@NathanSmith-ei3hc]

In light of the Wheel of Time, and soon to be Lord of the Rings, Amazon's new slogan should be the "One Company to Ruin Them All".

[@Fearoq]

Nah, Netflix has monopoly on that. Maybe they be good competitor in ruining things

[@PaulXPZ]

at least we still have Malazan. They'll never bother making that series into live action so it's safe. hope i didn't jinx it

[@johnbaker7322]

“Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin good forces have invented or made”

[@Sl0thPriest]

Disney is giving them a run for their money on that title too, having just swapped both Annabeth and Grover’s races for the Percy Jackson series. 🙄

[@AdderTude]

Amazon also has some great shows like Reacher and The Expanse (especially the latter).

[@thegoggle823]

It's also kind of weird that Rand is supposed to look like he isn't from the two rivers, but Aviendha **does** look like she is from the two rivers given the casting choices they have made.

[@thefurrybastard1964]

And the Two Rivers village was *very* Homogenous racially.

[@johnthomas2485]

How are the Aiel getting introduced this early? Just blow off The Great Hunt?

[@finchbird2419]

@@johnthomas2485 Book 2 doesn't exist apparently

[@scambammer6102]

@@finchbird2419 neither did book 1, or any of them, probably

[@gildor8866]

@@johnthomas2485 They are merging books 2 and 3 into one season. I dont see how that can work well, certainly not with only 8 episodes. Though I do understand it probably solves the problem of having little of Moirane in book 2 (after all they made her the main character) and also having little of Rand in book 3 (despite him being the main character and the book actually being named after him)

[@JonathanSirico]

Calling this show a dumpster fire is an insult to dumpsters around the world.

[@ardendragoon]

True, a good dumpster fire is spectacular to watch. This is just a murder of a loved man's work.

[@ngVAT579]

Also fires. Fires usually have some redeeming value like warmth and light and can be used to cook tasty food.

[@inventiveowl395]

@@ngVAT579 You've never seen (let alone smelled) a dumpster fire. Otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned cooking food on it xD

[@ngVAT579]

@@inventiveowl395 for sure but I was talking about fires in general and how the show is insulting to both dumpsters and fires.

[@canadianeh4792]

@@inventiveowl395 Depends what was in the dumpster. If it's a dumpster full of wood and cardboard it'll be fine. A dumpster full of plastic and dog shit, not so much.

[@dugonman8360]

Wheel of time is my wifes favorite book series of all time. She grew up half in Osaka and half in Taipei and said she started reading them in the smaller japanese installments that were released over there (Japan supposedly releases fantasy books in super weird ways it seems) and she loved them so much she'd buy the english volumes that hadn't been released in japan yet. She credits it for helping her learn english as well as she does. She loves the series so much she braids her hair whenever we go out and, for some reason, an asian lady with a braid tend to turn heads for some odd reason. Now, did she like the fact that Lan was asian and she felt included in the story due to that? A big solid no. She refuses to watch the show because she knows it's crap. She said it reminds her nothing of the books she fell inlove with. Soooooo, my question is what is rhe point if these racial changes obviously does nothinf but piss off the fans white, black, and purple? Other then to show the audience that they are hyper inclusive good boys, it shows they obviously don't care about the books.

[@rajdarge]

I thought the change of Lan to asian was the only possibly justifiable race swap. All the rest was the same Woke bullshit these turrds seem to destroy stuff with.

[@frocat5163]

*"...what is rhe point if these racial changes obviously does nothinf but piss off the fans white, black, and purple? Other then to show the audience that they are hyper inclusive good boys, it shows they obviously don't care about the books."* This is a near perfect definition of virtue signaling. They don't actually give a damn about the story, and they damn well don't care about "inclusion" and "diversity." They only care about _APPEARING_ to care about inclusion and diversity. The best part about this forced diversity BS in WoT is that the world of WoT is already incredibly diverse. Yes, the main characters are largely white. Because they were written by a white guy who largely modeled the early part of the series on _The Lord of the Rings,_ which was explicitly written to act as purely English mythology. But, as with all things spouted by virtue signaling d-bags, that sort of behavior is only "problematic" when it's done by whites. I defy any of these twats to provide examples of books written by black authors that primarily feature white characters, and the outrage by those same twats that there isn't adequate "representation" in those books written by black authors.

[@Vandreal_Wolf]

If anything Lan would not be Asian in appearance, Moraine would be. Anyone from Moraine's home country would be.

[@Vandreal_Wolf]

@agapp11able no, but I thought I remember it being mentioned the Carheinin having tilted eyes, dark hair and shorter in height? Please, correct me if I'm wrong. That was just my interpretation. After seeing RJ's preferred picks for casting it's open my mind a bit.

[@submandave1125]

If you've ever seen just how huge the Japanese translation of Harry Potter books are you'd understand why they're published in installments. I vividly remember being in shock when I saw those monsters in the local library's children's section. I can't read well enough to really know why, but suspect they are hella descriptive, especially regarding things that might be taken for granted by Western readers.

[@ianswinford5570]

I just thought of a good name for the show: “The Waste of Time” season 1. Who’s agrees with me?

[@ronniedio7013]

Not anymore. I can't imagine half the audience returning for season 2. I'd wager a third didn't make it to the end of season one

[@thefurrybastard1964]

Or the Wheel of Crimes.

[@scavone72]

The Woke of Time

[@GuitarsAndSynths]

nah The Woke of Time is far more appropriate to Rafe Judkin's SJW fantasy agenda.

[@cbohnstedt4477]

I prefer Wheel of Prime, myself

[@aaronbarnett9723]

Even in the AoL the Daishan Aiel looked different from everyone else, we see this in Rand's Rhuidean visons of the past. Also the Aiel were very wary of outsiders and only a few people were allowed in the waste. Also the Aiel wore clothes that almost completely covered thier bodies, leaving mainly thier hands and face uncovered. Rand actually notices this when Rhuarc pulls his sleeves up to expose the clan chief dragon it talks about his tan hands and pale white forearms.

[@militarygradeducttape5072]

Made me recall the whole Rhuidean revelations sequence, what an awesome piece of writing and world building, definitely my favorite in the series.

[@sarahtalone6251]

BRO. Rand is basically all of the time impressed by how Aviendha has white skin "where the sun had not touched her". Direct quote from one of the books, can't recall which. Its the same with basically all of them. They are all redheads/blonde hair with light eyes. These traits don't normally appear otherwise.

[@farkasmactavish]

Yeah, and anything NOT covered would be...tan. Like your face, when you're not veiled. Wow, amazing.

[@amarissimus29]

I don't know, we should all welcome an exploration of the power structure of a post Artur Hawkwing society and the dynamic between a historically oppressed, tainted gender and an omnipotent magical elite gender bent on their submission. Not to mention the inherent superiority of queer-weaving. Forget epic fantasy man, revanchist ideology is so much more fun. Don't you want to be on the right side of history?

[@sarahtalone6251]

@@amarissimus29 you are correct, of course of course, RJ's world is very representative of the mysogynistic reality in which we still find ourselves in. We should, very obviously, erase absolutely anything he writes and put it out again with all of our very cleverly thought, absolutely empty and miserable ideas. Lol I like your way of thinking

[@skiveman]

The Aiel (Rand, Aviendah, Rhuarc et al) were based on the real-life ethnic Irish. He thought it was amusing to put people who would burn in the sun into a freaking desert. Hence the red hair, eye colour, pale skin. This was directly from Robert Jordan himself. It would be interesting to find out if Harriet (Jordan's widow) has commented anything on the TV series considering she was the series editor. Anyways, cheers Shad and Oz for the show update as bad as it is.

[@newdawngamingchannel]

That just gave me a good laugh sadly the show probs wont understand Aiel humor.

[@ctrlaltdebug]

Stop the Ginger Genocide! We need more redhead representation!

[@thishonestgrifter]

@@newdawngamingchannel that would be fitting given that most people in the books don’t understand it either.

[@Raximus3000]

I think she is holding scions to keep the spirit of her husband resting in peace.

[@polaris30000]

I actually really respect how Jordan represented Irish Gaelic culture in the books with the Aiel, because while their overall aesthetic is very Arabian, there are subtle nods to Irish culture. The weaponry they used, penchant for dueling and being very good at it, the differentiation between clan and society and the shifting inter-clan dynamics, and the references to exceedingly good metal work are all things that were known about 8th-14th century Irish culture.

[@AnakinTheWeird]

I was just in a discord conversation about why the casting is problematic. I was asked if race was important to the story, and after I explained why the Aiel appearance is important to Rand's character and overall worldbuilding, one of the server mods literally said I was making veiled racist comments.

[@KomboEzaliTe]

"Racist" has lost all meaning these days. They just use the word as a hammer to beat down anyone who points out what they're doing.

[@Spear_of_the_Raven_Ash]

I encountered that some years ago when talk started about this series becoming a show. The casting is shite, and detracts from the core of the story. Borderline misappropriation, like white actors portraying First Nations characters. It's a garbage version of what Robert Jordan created.

[@christiansorensen7567]

Unfortunately Shad's own Discord server is full of bat-wing looneys like that. I've been kicked off, twice, for memes in the restricted section that they "fact checked." I've tried to bring it to Shad's attention through You-Tube to no avail. I wish he knew the kind of people he's employing over there, because I know he wouldn't approve of their blatant abuse of power. A read through the rules shows that everything is hedged to protect woke ideology and silence even moderate people.

[@melgibsonafter5beers626]

Discord is a platform created FOR and BY furries and pedophiles. What do you people expect?

[@im1085]

if anyone thinks race isnt important to the story they didnt read it

[@davenathan2002]

This isn't just ignorance or disrespect; it's outright hatred and rejection of the very source material that has given him a platform.

[@braddl9442]

Its malicious

[@CD-vb9fi]

It is also what actual "appropriation" looks like. For the longest time they whined about Hollywood appropriating other cultures... now the same folks are in full tilt appropriation so hard that they are grabbing every IP they can and gender bending, race washing, sexual sabotaging, or politically braining every possible character they can. Their extreme bigotry is on hard display!

[@amarissimus29]

I think it's just plain opportunism. The rights for WoT have been bouncing between studios for a long time. They see a property like this only as a brand name, something that will attract viewers. Maybe someone reads the book, maybe they just spend five minutes on a fan wiki. Just enough so they can make a recognizably WoT trailer. That's why they tend not to notice that issues like race and gender (actual gender) are already part of the story, and in ways that actually make sense. But we should not be surprised that a young adult fantasy series has a more coherent ideology than their death cult.

[@jonhwesley2011]

Sometimes a think, how are theses show runners so out of their societies? Like, GOT os the biggest example, a great success until they tried to be creative and change things. Now if you have so many quality books, with lot of fans, you have the right receipt, right? So what the hell they want any have to change almost everything all the time. People just want to see what they read, right?

[@Sal3600]

Nah its outright hatred against white skin. I'm not even white.

[@matthewbowman9416]

My summary for WOT would be a 14-15 book case study on how difficult it can be for different cultures to get along even in the face of an overwhelming threat. The different cultures in the world and their interactions are what set this series apart from anything else which is why 90% of the conflicts are between different people, not even the shadow spawn. By eliminating cultural diversity (different cultures/areas having different beliefs, values, and traditions often as the result of different ethnic makeup), the show has eliminated the vast majority of conflict found in the books and what made them so special. For example, I can't think of a single cultural difference the show highlighted in Fal Dara (aka. public bathing, separate housing for men & women, so many torches there are no shadows at night etc.)

[@Captain-Axeman]

What is it with replacing red hair characters, with people whom are more generally dark skinned? Seriously, very few actually red heads.

[@marcogenovesi8570]

Even SJWs think redheads have no souls

[@pavelowjohn9167]

Well, there's one red-head who needs to be replaced badly, and that's Rafe himself. It's almost as if he, the showrunner for "HALO" and the showrunner for "The Rings of Power" are in a contest to see who can produce the shittiest adaptation of a beloved franchise (personally, I think Cowboy Behop's showrunner already 'won' that award, but that show came and went so fast, I think people are already forgetting about it, so it doesn't really count).

[@deece1482]

It's because red hair is a white trait. They want to remove any forms of whiteness.

[@tiagodagostini]

Specially because they kept Rand as red haired and the red hair is the sign someone is Aiel! These peopel did not READ the book. It is impossible someone would read the largest history ever written when they dislike everything on it

[@mr.s2005]

They are trying to erase us red heads from history

[@kelkidman1319]

The most frustrating thing to me about the show isn't the busted world building, or the garbage new stuff, or even the butchering of the original plot, it's the shrinking of the world. In the Eye of The World it took months to get from the Two Rivers to Caemlyn, and by the Rand and Mat get there their clothes are ragged, they're caked with dirt and are visibly downtrodden. In the show it takes about a month to get from the Two Rivers to TAR VALON, and Rand is still wearing the same coat as he did when he started the journey with not so much as a new speck of dirt on the exposed fur. One of the best things in the early WoT books is the sense of distance and travel that RJ impressed on to the reader. It makes things like the Ways and later Travelling feel like real advances in the world. In the show characters teleport wherever the show writers want them to be without any sense of the distance traveled.

[@elezraita]

Wait, they went to Tar Valon in the show?

[@kelkidman1319]

@@elezraita Yeah, the show doesn't even pretend to follow the plot of the book past about episode 3.

[@FuFightersStudio]

@@kelkidman1319 Past first half a sentence actually but yeah. The plot is killed in the first 15 seconds.

[@GodwynDi]

That has been lost in Hollywood for a long time. They have no sense of time or distance.

[@IchibanOjousama]

No. Everything is bad

[@ryanodom6101]

To the Mustang analogy: They bought a mustang, while yelling for the whole town to hear how much they love mustangs. They proceeded to rip out the engine and put in a golf cart’s electric motor. They used paint stripper to remove the original paint job then spray painted it the same color. They removed the original seats and paneling and replaced them with those of a Honda civic. And now, when you ask them what they did to the mustang they (allegedly) love so much, they ask you why you hate mustangs? Aren’t you a fellow enthusiast? Then why don’t you also love theirs? It’s even better than the original! You bigot!

[@ameritus9041]

Pretty good analogy...

[@ChaoticNeutralMatt]

Accurate

[@studiesfromthebible]

perfect

[@Pandemia616]

For real 😂

[@flatebo1]

They bought a Mustang, then took off the logo and put it on a Yugo.

[@ADDBlacksmith]

I feel like the Wheel of Time in its original form was already one of the most ethnically diverse fantasy series. Each country had its own culture and racial characteristics so why do the showrunners have to ruin everything

[@teresajsherrick5099]

Agree 100%...

[@lisaklassen8347]

IKR?! And there's gay and lesbian characters and Rand is in a poly relationship and yet somehow that's not good enough for these woke NPCs?!

[@IchibanOjousama]

"Because in MuRicA of 2022, it's not like that!!!!" ... is the argument that Rafe Judas's "work" is based on

[@FlyByNight1975]

I think that the people who reject the notion that in a walking, horse-riding, sailing in wooden boat society it would be quite natural for different regions have different appearance, clothing style, and culture. Race-swapping a little might fly, but it wouldn't really be a frequent thing, except for major trade cities. Most people didn't travel far from home. It's even mentioned a few times that people just didn't really travel more than maybe 30 or 40 miles away from home, due to the difficulties of traveling. This is why Rand stood out in his village. He was much taller, had red hair, and light eyes, and was constantly told that he looked like an Aiel. They generally speaking were very tall, fair, red-headed, with light eyes. These communities were isolated enough from each other that some had accents that would identify what region they were from. (Kind of like Bostonians drop their R's). There are plenty of unique racial types in the world of Wheel of Time that forcing it to occur where it doesn't appear is a puerile attempt to satisfy everyone and please no one.

[@fetchyryu]

oddly enough though, skin color was never discussed as a hard rule of identifying people in the books. it was always stuff like hair and eye color or height or clothing. Jordan often described Tairens as being dark of skin, but then Siuan was always described as a pale, blue eyed, (and maybe blonde?) woman. But she was still as tairen as they came and no one ever doubted her origin. You have to remember that this is a world that is post-utopian. Racial diaspora has occurred many times over going back to the age of legends and before.

[@Shaun86321]

I'm currently reading the books, almost done with the first one, and I can tell why Shad loves them. Among other things, there are Kite shields!

[@Aml-dr5oz]

Tolkien: "evil can't create, only change or destroy the things you love". something like that :)

[@marcogenovesi8570]

Also the show about Witcher is replacing redheads with dark skinned girls and then trying to backpedal later with makeup and hair dye because the fans are like "bro wtf she was supposed to be redheat"

[@TheAchilles26]

For some bizarre reason, redheads have been the woke crowd's favorite target for blackwashing for over a decade

[@harlannguyen4048]

@@TheAchilles26 I hope we get an explicit answer for why that is.

[@TheAchilles26]

@@harlannguyen4048, we won't

[@murphsmodels8853]

@@harlannguyen4048 Mainly because redheads are the quintessential representation of white people. And modern Hollywood hates white people.

[@YouSuprised]

@@TheAchilles26 They represent ancient white people and culture the most. Celtic people especially. They are most spiritual and influencing throughout European Mythology. Thus they are the greatest target of those who call themselves most of God, but who are actually the most far away from God any man could even think possible.

[@davidpurvee9225]

Currently rereading the series and just finished book 5. Without spoilers, in this book Lan has someone very close to him die, much closer than that stupid warder he hardly knew. And his response was... "The wheel weaves. It was a good day to die." No, the TV show is not another turning of the wheel. It is an ABOMINATION! Please make it STOP!

[@JaysSavvy]

If it was another turning, they'd all have different names. They don't even know the lore well enough to lie about the lore.

[@jesshorn257]

just pretend that the shadow won,stopped the wheel and this is the pale reflection of "the world" with the shadows taint as you see in book 3

[@DmGray]

@@JaysSavvy I wouldn't go that far. Sanderson was VERY diplomatic using that very reasoning to excuse the show. Jordan was EXTREMELY ambiguous as to the nature of the turning of the wheel. I interpret it as you seem to, each turn is different, even as the same threads are woven into the same patterns. Free will and chance play a part with the wheel forced to adjust to maintain its design (ta'veren being the most obvious and explicit evidence of this function) But with infinite turns of the wheel, it's actually almost certain to see near duplicates of previous turns (the monkey/typewriter deal :P) It's lazy and imho JUST an excuse, but it's at least nominally supported by lore, even if reasonable people would see it as a desperate justification.

[@JaysSavvy]

@@DmGray LOL No. "It could be the same but totally different." Just no. There is no excuse. There is no explanation aside from: LUL Fck wyt guys and fck the wyt author, diversity for the sake of political points and virtue signaling.

[@idylehandz3911]

@@arenkai this is my new head canon. the dark one broke the wheel, and erased his own memory from the world. ruling forever in a morally, ethically bankrupt world that dosent even know its master exists.

[@methshin1]

How can you say Tuon's description isn't specific? Jordan goes to great lengths to describe her physical appearance

[@jinxsoderling1399]

yeah, dark porcelin doll mat describes her as

[@Th1sUsernameIsNotTaken]

@@jinxsoderling1399 Just now watching this (funny enough it got recommended to me as I'm hate watching the disgrace that is S2), and having just been reading Knife of Dreams, Matt does clearly state her skin dark.

[@Minwolf]

When I first started hearing them saying they found the best actor for the job in movies and shows, I accepted it but after so many years of Hollywood saying that now and some of those actors being one dimensional and acting the same in every role they get I no longer believe that when I hear it.

[@skullknight4579]

i'v always heard about wheel of time there and there, and when I heard there was going to be a tv show, I decided to check that out first, then I watched season 1 and was extremely disappointed, "is this the story everyone praises so much" I thought so i finally bought audiobook for Eye of the world and was impressed and annoyed at he tv show cause it clearly had bad writers behind it. I'm currently on the Gathering Storm

[@silusnode]

Wait till the last two books...absolutely epic.

[@joshuatabor8755]

prepare your self for light depression characters you've been with for 15 books will suddenly be gone form your life and you know you will never hear anything new form them again. That got me. Wished Robert Jordan could have continued

[@trollingsnowflakes3144]

My favorite. You will ultimately enjoy the 1st book most after you have read through book5. So many Easter eggs and insights to things that will happen later on. RJ was a genius at connections spanning multiple books. The nostalgia of going back to when the gang were nobodies. Clueless, naive children going out the grand world. I hope you enjoy WOT

[@GuitarsAndSynths]

same here and so far almost done reading book 4 and love the novels the show is terrible.

[@tobiassalisbury245]

Shad: "I'll get insulted if they change the color of a roof that was specifically described in that way." Me: "Like how Emond's field had tiled roofs, and not thatch, like specifically described in the books?" Emond's field didn't have any tiled roofs until around book five!

[@mjbull5156]

Except for the Winespring Inn.

[@jackr2287]

The thatchers complaints were important to said thatcher.

[@shannonturnbull1398]

I would also like to point out that they have retconned their own established lore from the first season. Every Aiel depicted has red hair and pale skin. Not-Thom even explains this to Not-Matt. They can't even keep their own world in line.

[@nathanmorgan3647]

Just like a habitual liar can't keep the lies straight.

[@nathanmorgan3647]

On a more positive note: Amazon has reported corporate losses for the first time in 7 years. I like to think it's due to their phenomenally expensive attack on WoT and Middle Earth

[@PQBMO]

The Wheel of Time TV show is so bad that Robert Jordan, who has been in Heaven since 2007, is now convinced he’s in Hell.

[@ShieldWife]

Yet another case of Gingercide. It seems like it’s required for every fantasy franchise adaptation.

[@jamessalvatore7054]

If the Red sonja actress who too happens to be bame, doesnt at least have red hair thatll be the most ridiculous fucking show ever and deserves the vomit itll derive from the real fans.

[@ShieldWife]

They will get someone like Erin Kellyman to play her, if they even bother to give her red hair at all.

[@ShieldWife]

Absolutely, Hollywood is radically anti-white.

[@64bitcrafts]

The trick about good characters, is that you can like them or hate them, but you feel those ways about the *characters themselves* because of how well they are portrayed. There's enough detail for you to ask questions about motivations, analysis their psychology, etc. Most modern movie/TV dredge, and even less experienced or talented authors, however, you won't get that far. The characters are only skin deep, and you are told what qualities they have. If you try to ask questions, or dig deeper into their thoughts, you have to accept the boilerplate answer as law, or else you'll fall through the floor, because there's nothing else there. I usually notice it the most because I find myself not getting angry at a character, but getting angry at the portrayal and the in-story-world simply agreeing with 'ah yes, your character traits are ___', despite evidence to the contrary. Egwene is a good example of a character I dislike, but for traits that are consistent, and that I understand as things that people actually do.

[@mjbull5156]

I think Jordan's use of porcelain in describing Tuon meant delicate and fragile looking, not color.

[@kl8455]

yeah, she is dark and petite in the books. Rafe will cast a 6 foot 5 pale redhead unless her char is cut too.

[@Lark88]

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. The Wheel of Time needs to be an anime.

[@SagaciousNihilist]

Nah, Japanese anime renditions of western media just end up being Japanphile shitshows, they dont understand what westerners mean when they say that they want a anime verison of a western ip. They just end up taking Batman and turn him into a Samurai or some shit, instead of taking batman and giving us a show simply using tthe anime style, coupled with the nonwoke Japanese perspective that we see in all anime. Its the same bs they did with the Star wars anime, they just took star wars and instead of making it in anime format, they used it to make short episodes which were bs artistic renditions of Japanese traditional culture, Not what people asked for when they said Star Wars in anime. Probably the only good anime rendition of a western ip was the Animatrix.

[@Vandreal_Wolf]

I'm not sure I can completely agree with that, but if it's more true to the actual story of the book series I'm all for that. I still think a live action would be best, but with a director/ producer that doesn't hate the actual book series and people (humanity).

[@SuperPagt]

Some moments like the battle at the end of book 2 or the second battle of the stone and the ending were anime worthy. The rest not sure

[@RuailleBuaille]

If the group of people who collaborated on Arcane (Studio Fortiche and the creative team assembled to adapt the characters and established lore/world building into the masterpiece we got with S1) could be brought on to make it, can you imagine how incredible that would be?

[@TheAchilles26]

Egwene was ALWAYS dislikeable and inconsistent. Her flagrant unceasing hypocrisy was one of the main reasons people hated her in the books.

[@MrSphandor]

Indeed but there are people like her in real life and they can still achieve greatness or perform a selfless act which I think was Jordans point - people you dont like can still turn out to be heroes.

[@MrSphandor]

That said I doubt the guys running the show are going to make that point through Egwene.

[@Lark88]

Thing about Egwene is that her whole life, she was on the track to be one of the important people of her village. Trained for authority, and then when she left her little village, she was hit with the harsh reality that she wasn't very important at all. What made her likable to me is that despite her skewed vision of the word, she tried to do the right thing and protect people under her care.

[@TheAchilles26]

@in desperate need of a scotch....that means her only consistency was hypocrisy.

[@shawnbalboni4927]

@@Lark88 oh yes, she did the right thing and proved how much she cares by using what Nynaeve went through against her in order to keep her mouth shut after she caught Egwene in a massive lie. That, and what she ordered to be done to Rand firmly cemented her, in my view, as one of the worst people in the series. I was honestly surprised with how evil and completely aelf-serving her actions were at times, the Dark One didn't trick her into serving him. Would have fit right in, with the lying, the coercion, assault and her ambition.

[@justthinkingoutloud2538]

In season 1, they threw all ethnic lore out the window and just said that there is no such thing as regional ethnic homogeny, and appearance is no signifier of nativity. Except for red hair. They made it clear that was the ONE exception, that the Aiel were exclusively ginger. And now even that’s been thrown out. Yeah, the actress’s hair is sort of reddish, but it’s not the same kind of hair as the previous Aiel we saw, who were all white. They can’t even stay consistent between seasons. If I needed any further reason to jump ship, this is it.

[@JaysSavvy]

They are actively enjoying changing the source material SPECIFICALLY to make white men (the VAST majority of book fans) seethe. They aren't hiding it. They're openly mocking about it.

[@Erowens98]

Just a pointer. Even if they did stick to "Aiel are exclusively ginger" that would still be going against source material. Since they aren't all gingers. Just all white. They all have light hair though, usually a shade of light red, blond, or rarely light brown, I seem to remember only 1 exception who had dark brown hair.

[@HH-hd7nd]

Just Another Voice Not all Aiel in the books are red-haired, it's just the most common hair color. However there are also some blonde, brunette and dark haired Aiel. Their defining feature is that they're all white.

[@NG-fi1nn]

@@HH-hd7nd Uh, no. The Aiel's "defining feature" is not that they are "all white". This is how Aviendha is introduced in The Dragon Reborn: "Blue-green eyes and reddish hair cut short except for a narrow tail that hung to her shoulders; soft, laced knee-boots and close-fitting coat and breeches all in the shades of earth and rock. Such coloring and clothing had been described to her once; this woman was Aiel." And later, for the introduction of Bain and Chiad: "Two women in Aiel garb stood up no more than ten paces away... One had the same reddish hair as Aviendha, with gray eyes, the other dark blue eyes and hair like fire." And for Gaul: "Aiel. Now Perrin knew what was familiar about the man in the cage. He had seen an Aiel, once, one of those fierce, nearly legendary denizens of the harsh land called the waste. The man had looked a good deal like Rand, taller than most, with gray eyes and reddish hair..." And Rhuarc: "Three of the Aiel were male, one an older man with more than touches of gray in his dark red hair. They were tall, these Aielmen, and young or old, they had that calm sureness in their eyes... No mention of skin color, but Jordan is always sure to note the hair color. The reddish hair, and height (nobody seems to give a shit about the height, apparently) are what mark people as Aiel, though they are not all of the same height or hair color. No one ever says "Oh, he has the white skin of an Aiel" or anything like that in the books.

[@ColombianThunder]

@@NG-fi1nn Skin color is mentioned in some parts as being tanned.

[@kjabareen]

Aviendha is one of my favorite characters in the books, and I love the POV insight of her romance with Rand Al'Thor, especially when they are in the Aiel Waste. Amazon's portrayal of her is betrayal.

[@laf5755]

I think Authors/Creators should definitely push for their work to be animated. Can't change how to character's looks when they're a drawing. Also in general animated adaptations for all to be fair, there's no excuse after Arcane.

[@avataraarow]

I agree so much, unfortunately I think adult animation is generally seen as unpopular and not profitable which is so sad. Also anime is gaining a lot of adult popularity so it’s an increasingly untrue statement, but most companies are tone deaf to what would actually be smart for an adaptation so I wouldn’t hold my breath

[@laf5755]

@@avataraarow I’ve heard people talk about Mistborn being adapted with the animation style of Arcane, I think that would work for what I’ve read of Mistborn. Also it about style; the DC animation movies looks plain and could do with a style that’s a bit more out there. That plain style can work for something like Invincible but that’s to it’s advantage as when it gets violent gives you more of a shock impact to the gut for that fact. I think the reason why animated tv/films stick to that style is that they are willing enough to go a bit weird with the designs of the characters.

[@avataraarow]

@@laf5755 ugh that’d be awesome, sorry don’t get me wrong I LOVE animation for fantasy adaptations, there’s just still a bit of a “for kids” stigma around it. Brandon Sanderson has specifically said he would want his works not animated for the reason he thinks it would limit the audience that would see his works, which makes me sad because it could be sooooo good. If adult animation continues to get more popular I think he’s open to it since his only worry was audience, so I hope more works like arcane come out that’ll start changing public perception

[@GhostofCicero]

Tuon is definitely black, I've just read the books. Her skin is described as black, deep black. Her hair is also described to match black peoples. I imagined her to look like Lupita Nyong'o.

[@jayclearmen411]

Same lupita nyongo is who i had her framed as in my mind. cuz of her petite figure and her big eyes an delicate facial features i distinctly remember matt describing her as an ebony or dark doll..

[@jeffzenno5277]

I always thought of Grace Jones but a foot shorter, but yes.

[@Olav_Hansen]

0:56 "is that evil" Playing dungeons and dragons, trying to decipher what 'evil' means on the chart has given me a pretty good insight to what evil is. While it is easy to overcomplicate the term evil, it always comes down to 2 things: 1: willfully harming others for the reason of harming them. 2: selfish acts (such as greed) and acts that disregard the treatment of others in exchange for self gain. From these 2 lines, one can conclude that spite and sadistic actions are the most evil acts by themselves. And the more you think about it, the more it makes sense. For spite you (1) want to hurt others for the satisfying 'revenge' (2). I don't think people need an explanation on why sadistic actions are the other 'really evil' one. About the wheel of time adaptation, he has gone out of his way to publicly spite people, and he's acting with his ego not the kindness of his heart. That is some classic evil right there. I haven't looked into it to judge to what degree he's truly being evil, but acting out of spite+selfishness automatically qualifies his actions as evil. 1:08:06 "sure that might be why you did it" What can we judge people on other then their intent? If someone was shot and killed because he was armed and attacked an officer that's a bit of sadness, but ultimately deserved BUT when someone was shot and killed because he was black and did a crime that's something entirely else. Accidents can happen, but racial hate isn't an accident. Weirdest thing is that even when you account for that part, there have been protest marches for someone that was killed even though there was a reasonable amount of proof that he was armed and had a history of violence. I wish I remembered which march it was, but I know it has happened and that in itself is scary because it shows that people... refuse to "ignore race", which is the only path to true equality in the long run.

[@MetalManiac1911]

They’ll make Tuon white as snow. You watch. Mainly because she’s the leader of the Sean Chan which are the largest group of slavers in the world.

[@trexx32]

It's unreal how they hate their audience

[@CatastrophicNewEngland]

It is because they've been convinced to subconsciously hate themselves.

[@sortedevaras]

That is the new normal, big companies hire snowflakes who actively hate non snowflakes in order to pander to Twitter users.

[@jamesf2743]

You were right to call them ugly. Probably the ugliest cast I've ever seen. Liandrin? That woman is 90% jaw.

[@LOWBORN-the-LOATHSOME]

Loial in episode 5 of this Light-forsaken show: "Really? Red hair is one of the few physical traits that can help you work out where a human is from." (They must have thought they were being so clever, having him say this line.) But not skin color! Never that, according to the writers of this show. 🙄😤

[@ChopperChoppah]

I was so excited when I heard they were going to make a TV series of the book. I gave it 10 minutes then turned it off and abandoned it.

[@skiveman]

If Oz was going to play a character in WoT I would say that he would be a good Chel Vanin.

[@arthurmarinelli9418]

My favorite volume in the WOT series is "The Shadow Rising" when Perrin rallies the folks of Edmond's Field and the Two Rivers to fight off the Trolloc Army. I cannot see this group depicting that awesome event accurately. Robert Jordan's Battle at Dumai Wells is as accurate portrayal of the true chaotic nature of combat as I have ever read. They will never get that right. I also read 'The Black Company' by Glenn Cook.. I always interpreted the series to represent the Thirty Years War in Central Europe's religious wars. The movie that illustrated that period was "The Last Valley" with Omar Shariff and Michael Caine,...the description of the Siege at Magdeburg was chilling.

[@tiagodagostini]

What people need to make is a site or app that list whenever a new show, movie etc has involvement of certain people, like this individual or Ruin Johnson and everyone can add dozens to that list. People need to learn to REFUSE to consume such products and be clear that is because of those people and that those people should never ever be hired again if the studios want to have money.

[@schnek8927]

Or, even better, have those studios and companies go broke and get absolutely destroyed, allowing others to build on their corpses. Even megacorporations are seemingly starting to go broke from going woke, and while i doubt it'll happen it would be so glorious to see all the woke shit burn to the ground! They don't deserve redemption... They made their choices, and should pay for it by going bankrupt. Simple as that, let them die.

[@definitelynotobama6851]

Maybe Elon will let someone run a Twitter account that does that

[@melgibsonafter5beers626]

Just use the coincidence detector. Same basic thing.

[@peterw1534]

@@melgibsonafter5beers626 didn't they get rid of that forever ago?

[@melgibsonafter5beers626]

@@peterw1534 You can still find it

[@jsrrrmg]

You know it's crazy about all the race swapping and excuses for it. It's like no one realizes that original cover art exists, and not to mention the graphic novels. All of these things were while Robert Jordan was alive.

[@jackr2287]

The cover art for the books I got is of the style I want for my books.

[@SHADOW1414]

I actually really liked the idea of having all 2 rivers people be mixed race. Bam, there is your distinctive two rivers look....except, they didn't do that. They couldn't even stick to it for the main group.

[@jsrrrmg]

@@SHADOW1414 I wouldn't have minded if it matched cannon. But if you can't even keep to the surface level lore, there is no way it will be true to the deeper points. The "distinctive "Two Rivers Look" didn't really have much to do with race, but hair and clothing styles, personality traits. Also, they would have had to make everyone from Andor mixed race.

[@Nyet-Zdyes]

@@SHADOW1414 It was filmed mostly in Europe... INCREDIBLY easy to find white people with brown hair and brown eyes in Europe to play the Two Rivers people. Having the people of the Two Rivers all be the way they were cast in the show also kills one of the more positive aspects of the book... when people from every country start working TOGETHER... and even before then, as the EF5 travel through different lands... and make friends pretty much everywhere they go.

[@wtel9536]

@@SHADOW1414 Andor was basically an analogy for one of the Latin successor states, i.e France, with a couple of English traits smattered it. Racially they were Southern European

[@loboblack3092]

I am so happy to have found your channel. After seeing the Amazon version of WoT I could not speak about it for awhile. I was very hurt and felt betrayed. I have read, like many of us, the entire series at least 5 times. Jordan inspired me and millions throughout the world. It was a travesty what Amazon allowed to happen...Why would the Jordan Estate allow this?

[@Pax00Imperium]

I felt the same and even commented about it. It was very telling that those who attacked me for not liking it often hadn't read the books. It's sad that this has happened to the Wheel of Time.

[@MrJejonez]

​@@Pax00Imperiumno you're racist. I've read the books 3 times over. I am a mixed black man. I always always pictured the Aiel this way. Desert folk should be darker. Also I was Perrin. He was me. But I saw him as big burly viking type white. So I love that they literally made him me! I choose Axe btw. Hopper is kin. I have an Akita named Hopper.

[@MrJejonez]

You people just suck man, can't love a good thing, y'all are like the star wars fans. I'm a 3 time reader and the acting chops are on point except for the Ogiers and Rands. This season they took away the MOP pretty boy distraction and let him act. Now he can grow his hair and be the MC. Cause he's holding this buzz thing down. Getting fierce. I loved the first Mat though. He made the premier episode.

[@tamaska2000]

Mat described Tuon as resembling black porcelain “Tuon raised a peremptory hand, a black porcelain doll, but every inch a queen despite the shabby, too large dress” - Crossroads of Twilight

[@nathanmorgan3647]

Yeah but she probably won't be in the show. Because a black slave owner would be problematic.

[@barbeeska]

It's like you're psychic

[@luxintenebris1776]

When Mat describes Tuon as "black porcelain doll" I always took it to mean, dark skin/completion and very delicate, almost fragile looking

[@leonielson7138]

The reason that the Aiel were fair-skinned and green-eyed, but lived in a desert, is because they were being punished for failing their first oath. Biologically, they should have lived in the north, in a cool/temperate climate, but instead they're living in a desert. The actress pictured for Aviendha would have been a better fit as one of the Sea Folk. Unfortunately, I can't believe that she was the best actress for the role and am left believing that she was given the role because of someone's agenda.

[@j-jackquinn5540]

That would have been how they started off but the like 3000 years since people would grow to habituate better with the environment. Especially in a climate so harsh

[@Nyet-Zdyes]

@@j-jackquinn5540 3000 years... WITH CLOTHING... isn't enough time for humans to evolve to different colors. With clothes, there's just no reason... like dying from skin cancer.

[@j-jackquinn5540]

@@Nyet-Zdyes if we were talking about very dark skin then you would be right but the actress looks tan. So yes, if you have issue with someone being tan after 3000 years in a desert then you just have to accept that you are the problem. Get over it 🥰

[@Nyet-Zdyes]

@@j-jackquinn5540 I suppose the desert sun "tanned" her eyes/irises... and tightly curled her hair, too, right? And changed it from being red? As for her skin complexion, I've got no problem with that, as long as she doesn't go nude... because the sun wouldn't tan the parts of her body which would be covered. With clothing, there'd be no reason to evolve darker skin. Not that she doesn't appear quite attractive, at least in this photo. If *I* were doing the casting, and had to go on looks alone, I'd quite happily cast her for a number of roles... and I'm actually assuming she IS at least moderately talented, because most of the actors and actresses do appear to be talented. The point is simply that she does NOT look like an Aiel... or Aviendha in specific. A Domani, though... or someone from "modern" Andor, like around the capitol... or any of several of the Blight border countries, or Seanchan...

[@MrJejonez]

I pictured the Aiel this mixed type darker race. Through 3 reads. They pulled this actress straight out of my brain

[@Madcowdiseiz]

"If you know anything about the Seanchan, you wouldn't like them." I mean, the deathwatch guards are pretty cool, especially Karede.

[@Nyet-Zdyes]

Well... they've got slavery... AND damane... but other than that, what's wrong with them?

[@shevaunhandley1543]

Karede was awesome in every aspect of the word

[@Nyet-Zdyes]

@Socucius Ergalla Ha! That won't surprise me even the least little bit!

[@Vanlifecrisis]

I actually liked several of the individual seanchan we meet. Like egeanin and the elephant tamer. Even the blademaster rand fought didnt seem like an inherently evil dude, from his perspective he was honorable. Slavery is bad, but it was a part of their culture. Its like saying everyone throughout history from before the civil war was evil (every people had enslaved their own or others at some point, even jews).

[@Nyet-Zdyes]

@@Vanlifecrisis Exactly. Good on you. We believe slavery is bad because it's how we were raised... but most of our ancestors from a couple hundred years ago weren't raised that way... it was simply a fact of life. It took TIME, for that idea to become a part of the collective consciousness. And, of course, some people did mental gymnastics to try to defend it... which is much of the reason for some of the problems we have today.

[@rickd7373]

They made Lan cry. Lan doesn't cry.

[@Gunleaver]

Egwene is actually pretty snooty in the books. She has a very high opinion of herself. Look at the early appearance, when she is very critical of Thom at his introduction, and Thom starts flattering her, asking her to be his assistant, because he always picks the prettiest girl, and Egwene laps it up and even glares at Mat & Perrin when they start laughing at Thom's over the top flattery.

[@ChaoticNeutralMatt]

Yep, good times. Ah the character development

[@Gunleaver]

@@arenkai Oh, all the time. But it's not something where people can claim "Oh, well, as the Amyrlin, she has to act with the dignity of the office, she is not PERSONALLY egotistical, but she has to uphold the importance of her position and the White Tower. Nope. She was full of herself long before she had any reason to be.

[@Nyet-Zdyes]

Moiraine destroys her parents' inn... their livelihood... and Egwene abandons them to go chase her career... and can't wait to get her whole head up Moiraine's butt. (in the show) It's a miracle she doesn't get her neck broken every time Moiraine turns a corner. Rand dodged a bullet. From the books... Out of the EF5, the boys had no real choice... Leave, or stay & get everyone killed. Nynaeve followed them to try to rescue the boys from Aes Sedai schemes... Egwene left to chase a career. Nothing wrong with that...

[@disparutoo]

Ha I'm glad you covered this. The whole Jordancon Q&A video had some absurd stuff in it I'm going to be covering after Halo. I never thought of Tuon like that, I tend to get a general gist of characters and imagine from there, rather than try and accurately construct them from every detail. *Maybe MINOR SPOILERS I guess* I had always assumed given that her line is from Artur Hawkwing and meant to be the most direct descendant she would have looked similar to him. The biggest issue with changing it all to me is it is integral to the plot. There are many scenes where characters notice tiny details from people in disguises that give away where they are from in the world. This is ONLY possible because each region standsout in their look and culture. In season 1 while Tom is over the Aiel he even SAYS something like this himself, albeit, misses out important characteristic that are key in the books (and removing them destroyed the entire sentiment really) because he speaks about how the two rivers is so noticeable, when we already saw it was an international airport with nothing distinct about them at all. I can't remember in that scene if they mention the Aiels red hair or not. But I always thought there was an obvious in joke that Jordan was having with the audience. He put a group of people into the Desert who were all pale with red and blond hair. The WORST to live out there. To change that alters the entire aesthetic of the place, and the intention of the author to make that place stand out as these people do not BELONG THERE. It is not NORMAL or NATURAL for them to be there. There is an instant almost subconscious undertone that something happened to these people to force them into this place.

[@KNIGHTSWATCH]

Interesting to hear you didn't picture Tuon as black either. To me, the the description of her was very ambiguous, especially since the the earlier description of her didn't mention skin tone at all, almost setting you up to not envision her as black. Indeed if she was as dark skinned as people assume, why did no one mistake her for one of the sea folk? Most of the Seanchan are not black, so she would stand out a lot if she was and be misidentified as being of another culture, especially when she was hiding her identity. Can't wait to see your coverage of the jordancon video!

[@disparutoo]

@@KNIGHTSWATCH Yeah I'm glad I read the books before I had internet so the whole universe as I imagined it isn't influenced by hearing other peoples interpretations. Because watching you talk about it there are apparently other generally assumed visions I hadn't even thought of. For instance when he described people as a gnarled root, to me that meant someone who was aged so they had become very lean. But were still busy and hardworking that you could see their muscles very defined through their skin as the skin is pulled tight over it. So I thought of it as a descriptor as a visual "old but tough" adjective. I'd never even considered it to reference colour until you said it in a WoT video.

[@Nyet-Zdyes]

@@KNIGHTSWATCH Tuon IS described as being Black... but Tairens are also described as being dark-skinned, like the Sea Folk.

[@orbitaltrooper7139]

Bruh why does Hollywood hate redheads so much?

[@Cloudstrife112233]

I always thought that Tuon was black. Like REALLY black. I got the impression she was even darker than the Sea Folk.

[@nathanmorgan3647]

After Matt, Aviendha is my favorite character in this world. She may not have always been graceful about it, but the amount of personal inner strength one would have to have to make an utter 180 in life path the way she does in so short of time is amazing. I hope never to meet Rafe Judkins, for if I did I'm pretty sure I would end up in jail afterwards.

[@5h4ndt]

When Tuon was introduced, I had her not as dark skinned in mind, but I believe that is because her skin tone was never described (don't know for sure). Only when Mat describes her (while traveling with Luca), she's explicitly described as dark/black

[@justanotherrandomfilipino9018]

I haven't watched a single episode of this monstrosity and I'm proud to say I never will.

[@LOWBORN-the-LOATHSOME]

You made the right choice.

[@ameritus9041]

Good, everyone should stop watching it and let it die in apathetic obscurity like it deserves.

[@Elkerlyc]

Same. I did just finished re-reading the books though. :)

[@A.N.A8]

Lucky you

[@chriscyr8487]

I'm jealous

[@jeffhoffmann7980]

Can’t wait until Tuon is casted as a tall blonde Norse woman.

[@camerapasteurize7215]

HOW? LIKE, GENUINELY HOW???? RAND IS SUPPOSED TO BE AIEL, WHY WOULD THEY BE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ETHNICITY????

[@dtzyYT]

Easy. They will recast the actor :D

[@xyr3s]

Rand is mixed :p tigraine is from andor xD

[@nathanmorgan3647]

BECAUSE THE SHOW IS RUN BY PEOPLE WHO THINK RACES AND ETHNICITIES AND GENDERS ARE MAKE BELIEVE SOCIAL CONSTRUCTS DEVISED TO OPPRESS PEOPLE

[@michaelmoolick9419]

“Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made.”

[@AnneTervoort]

If they wanted diversity, they could have followed the books to the letter. I have never read a fantasy work that is as ethnically and culturally diverse as WoT

[@ashinch0r]

Exactly my feelings on the subject as well.

[@AnneTervoort]

@@ashinch0r first episode I was already pissed off.. Culturally speaking, and story wise, it's SO important in the books that the Two Rivers is pretty cut off from the rest of the world. It's crazy to them that Rand has lighter hair and eyes. It makes him stand out like a sore thumb in his village. The gang is baffled by most things that are different from home at first. Even little things like tiled roofs amaze them. Amd first episode we see an amazing mix of people and races in the Two Rivers and every roof is tiled. Nynaeve speaks of the Wisdom before her being turned down by the Tower for being a peasant, whilst the Two Rivers are supposed to be so cut off from the world that they don't even believe in Aes Sedai until they meet Moiraine.. Soo many things were off from the very first episode!

[@vivusthevivusthing6182]

@@AnneTervoort not even mentioning that the damned amerlin at the time was a fisherman's daughter, they don't turn away peasants. The tower is THRILLED when they go to the two rivers and find a boatload of women strong in the power. Admitedly that boat is more a row boat than a gallieon but for the tower it's huge.

[@jamesmason7124]

You forgot to mention that Robert Jordan mentions the color of Aiel eyes, mostly green or blue

[@joshbean7636]

I was not at all surprised that they pulled the race switcheroo on Aviendha….. seriously though, throughout the books literally dozens of times (a hundred wouldn’t even be an exaggeration) the Aiel are described as pale skinned, fair haired (red/blonde), and TALL. Even the women are described again and again as taller than most non-Aiel MEN. How confusing are they trying to make the show? Loial in the first season knew from one look that rand was Aiel…. How in the hell would that be possible if Aiel could also be short, black chicks. She’s beautiful and a good actor but not the right person for the role by a damn country mile. Ugh the blatantly forced political statements aren’t just annoying because they are annoying. They also take you out of the story and back to the issues of real life. Who consumes narrative content of the fantasy genre because they only want an escape from 30% of the real world? Swing and a miss team….. bummer

[@josephcampbell1693]

Perrin never went to the Three fold land. It was Mat and Rand, Aviendha was placed with Rand by the Wise ones.

[@LOWBORN-the-LOATHSOME]

Another beautiful redheaded woman, erased and replaced with a minority. I've noticed that happening a lot when it comes to these """adaptations""" lately. Can't gingers ever catch a break?

[@KomboEzaliTe]

Gingers are the smallest human minority.

[@oluade626]

Disgusting comment

[@oluade626]

She is ginger and Irish. Literally has a white mother but you cast her off as merely a “minority”

[@oluade626]

@Promethean Promulgation grow up

[@oluade626]

@Promethean Promulgation cope

[@Demon1987AS]

Tuon is definitely black, mate. In the books, she’s often described as an “ebony doll” or something similar by Mat. Selucia (who has typically Aryan colouring) is often described as being in stark contrast (in that she’s also buxom and curvy as well as a totally opposite skin colour).

[@jayclearmen411]

Exactly he lost me as soon as he said otherwise cuz the text makes it quite clear..so idk what he’s talking about

[@tikidale]

I keep wanting people to just say it: their actual justification for doing this is because they think they’re due. They’re owed. The “under representation” of the past now needs to be OVERcompensated for a time to “make it fair.” Yes, I agree they’re hypocrites. 110% agree. I would love to sort through their gaslighting and get them to flat out admit “We are casting this way because we’re compensating for the lack there of in the past.” Ergo, they’re justifying racism for the sake of equality, at least that’s what they believe. And lastly, Amazon, if your standards around casting are that the actors have to match the identities of the characters, why was Rosemund Pike cast?

[@amadman8149]

Didn't finish season 1 and I'm not going back!

[@Yarblocosifilitico]

By now I'm really curious why all red heads must be banished from entertainment. Even if they don't race swap, they hair swap most of them these days... How come? Have dye prices skyrockected or something?

[@xyr3s]

I mean chances are, the aiel will be given wigs or their hair dyed I'm assuming. Sort of like how Rosamond pike is a brunette in the show

[@davenathan2002]

Redheads are a rare, very white minority. Their very existence upsets the woke.

[@dadjian100]

545 of 4 start5y5ts 4. I retain years old t

[@jjgourde]

Funny thing is Ford did that to the Mustang.. From a V8 two door pony car .. to an electric 4 door SUV.

[@FiliusFidelis]

Yeah Jordan was really specific, until book 5 or 6 the Two Rivers is extremely un-diverse, dark eyes, dark VERY thick hair as most women seems to have braids that are thick as a wrist down to the hip, tanned skin but not very dark... thinking maybe Italian or French? Aiel, ranging from Blond to Red, eyes - Green, Blue, Grey with fair skin, making them Irish. The Domani, he always makes a point of mentioning their Coppery skin. Saldean's are a bit of a mystery with their high cheekbones and slanded eyes which sounds decidedly asian while other borderlanders almost sounds like vikings but culturally more asian, Lan Mandragoran, in his description sounds pretty close to Arnold's Conan the Cimmeran. Anyway, the point is, people as a general rule in this world has very defined regional traits both in appearance and ways of dressing.

[@thishonestgrifter]

I took the Malchiari (forgive the spelling I’ve only listened to the audiobooks) to be North Indian, with the forehead head dots. But all the borderlands seem to be a mix.

[@waylander9265]

It’s worth noting that the only nation with wide ranging ethnic diversity is the seanchan, which Jordan used to convey the sheer scale of the empire.

[@FiliusFidelis]

@@thishonestgrifter He does have blue eyes :)

[@TheAchilles26]

I always figured the Two Rivers was Greek or Italian, but very Mediterranean

[@jeffbourne4554]

The Two Rivers has been basically isolated for well over 1000 years. Growing up in a rural area, I know that eventually we are pretty much all inter-related and look alike. The books even mention knowing what family someone was in from just one look.

[@benjaminbreece7879]

I knew it wouldn't be practical to be completely faithful to the books. However, I was hoping they would at least remain faithful to the core themes whenever they made changes, like Peter Jackson did with the LOTR. But, even a dramatically different version of the story can still be worth watching. See pretty much every classic Disney fairy tale adaptation. They couldn't even do that. I only managed to get through the first and part of the second episode and couldn't get invested in the characters or storyline at all. They did not credibly portray teenagers growing up in a relatively isolated agrarian small town. The characters in the books were very believable, but not in the show.

[@vonsowards1297]

I’ve been re-listening to the Wheel of Time books. Just finished the 6th book. Robert Jordan does such a good job at taking his time a building the world well. He builds a matriarchal society where women have the magic and the political power. This reflects in men having very little say in their lives, such as the Aiel and Ogre men having no say on who they are told to marry, men who can channel being basically executed (gentled and then left to die soon after), and even the main female characters being so arrogant in expecting all men to bend to their whims. So he takes 6 books to naturally show this world and to show that the Aes Sedai are just horrible witches who arrogantly think that all people are beneath them and that only they can control the course of history. Then at the end of book 6, when Rand is captured and the male channeling Asha’man come and obliterate, and the Aes Sedai are brought to their knees, there is something SO SATISFYING in watching the men finally rise triumphant over the women! It is really well written and is a well earned moment that didn’t feel rushed (seeing he took 6 books to get there).

[@DankworthBalthazar]

Kneel to the Dragon Reborn, or you will be knelt.

[@jackr2287]

Wait for the middle book slog…. The Aes Sedai earned a reckoning, because while the threat over Saidar persists, they really deluded themselves into thinking they knew best in every regard. Many of the queens I thought more reasonable, capable of carefully guiding their nations, but some just as flawed as the rest. And still acutely aware of their need of menkind to staff their armies and give them heirs.

[@wtel9536]

It's more than that. There's little smatterings of commentary on how stagant the world is developmentally because of matriarchy. One of the running themes in the earlier books is that magic has stagnanted, but as soon as men start channeling again there's an explosion of new magical cability.

[@jackr2287]

@@wtel9536 ​ part of that was ta'veren affects I believe. And given that messing with weaves either works or backfires, Aes Sedai got real skittish. Until !!BIG SPOILERS FOLLOW!! Logan is reconnected to the Source, it was virtually a deathwish to mess with unknown weaves.

[@MrBrujah222]

I had the privilege of attending a reading/ signing of The Gathering Storm with Brandon and Harriet, which was phenomenal. At this event, Harriet told a story about another signing where a group of women came dressed as members of the Knitting Circle, and how when they approached Robert, they said that they were so surprised to find out that he wasn't actually a woman writing under a pseudonym because of how well he wrote women and their reasoning. The man was a genius.

[@mr.s2005]

Personally doubt how popular this series really was, because I doubt any legit fan of the series would enjoy the main characters being both sidelined and also turned into pansies. There is a reason why the sonic movies were successful, they listened to the fans and showed respect the source material...mix that with good writing and you have a series worth watching.

[@ameritus9041]

It's only popular among people who haven't read the books. Funnily enough it is actually inspiring many people to then read the books.... who often then stop liking the show cause they realize what it could have been.

[@TheAchilles26]

There's a surprising number of misandrist hypocrites who claimed to enjoy the books and are also screaming the praises of this travesty of an adaptation

[@erikrungemadsen2081]

Apparantly it went toe to toe with Hawkeye for viewers, seems reasonable. Hawkeye was not the biggest hit this year of the MARVEL shows.

[@jesshorn257]

can't speak for the show... the books are wonderful and has very deep characters that are 3d and fleshed with believable personalities

[@norbertsieniawski6768]

Phrase "porcelain doll" is generally associated with something very delicate and, often, rather... well... tiny, not the color. :)

[@dtzyYT]

Shit. Shit. Shit. I expected this, but damn. Aviendha is best girl so of course they will ruin her. I can't believe this got me so angry, I thought I don't give a shit about this show anymore.

[@redwarrior864]

I disagree on the Tuom note. The author was very precise in many ways with how he phrased things. Porcelain skin isn't used to describe skin colour- it's used to describe the presence of flaws. So describing her as "black porcelain" is to say she has flawless (No spots etc, even-toned) black skin.

[@jimmyb79]

Never read the books, so didn’t have any existing expectations. Struggled through the first episode, cut my losses half way through the second. I love fantasy too but this show was awful.

[@niallmurphy9376]

As bad as terry goodkinds stuff or worse?

[@laughingshaman1]

I haven’t read the books. I’m am getting ready to start the show. What was it that put you off?

[@jimmyb79]

@@laughingshaman1 Visuals felt cheap, characters acted unnatural + uninteresting, world building was poor/unrealistic for a medieval setting & fight scenes were also very boring with no suspense/stakes. Mainly tuned out due to the script/characterisation, I certainly wouldn’t recommend. Definitely make your own mind up though, and would be interested in your opinion after watching.

[@Tobias5036]

You made the right choice.

[@RS-vz5gc]

Read the books. It is the best series.

[@benjaminjane93]

I just think that people nowadays don't value the written work. Hollywood doesn't value the words written on the page. They don't put any value in author intent. They don't put any value in the love people have for the product. They feel as if the author is just 'one version' of the product and that 'their' version will be the definitive version. That people will forget the author when they see how much better seeing the thing on the screen will be. They don't value the fans of the books. They feel as if they don't owe ANYONE ANYTHING when they undertake adapting.

[@RoryMitchell00]

Rafe's reaction to the immature attacks is very telling. He is choosing to punish millions of fans of WoT for the behaviour of one person (well, if he were to actually prove that person exists with a screenshot, which he has failed to do). That is _not_ professional conduct for a series showrunner. Any professional studio would be within their rights to fire someone for that action.

[@Devin_Stromgren]

He doesn't see a difference between the alleged death threat guy and the people with legitimate criticism.

[@jackr2287]

He was just interested in rafing the show anyway.

[@keiichi8191]

Are there no white, red-haired actresses in Hollywoodland or something? It's hard not to notice the trend these days of ginger characters being replaced with "ethnic" actresses.

[@Filip_Agrippa]

Another PROOF they want to replace Redheads. My sister is a redhead and how dare they marginalize her identity?! Seriously, why the hell do modern media erase all redhead/ginger characters?

[@corasmith5293]

Its despicable what they have done to Robert Jordan's legacy. I grew up reading WOT during middle and high school and i distinctly remember when i couldn't continue to read the books because he passed away and i had to wait until Brandon continued the series to finish it.

[@thegeneralmitch]

Brandon did a good job, but there are clearly missing or rushed sections of the story left by Roberts death. Bittersweet thinking about what we might of missed out on. D:

[@vivusthevivusthing6182]

@@thegeneralmitch We're lucky hariot stayed on to gaurd it as well. She kept brando sando from fanboying it into errors. We didn't get the ending, as RJ would have written it but we at least got his ending and his editor kept the fanboying out.

[@bradleygriffeth4403]

In America our idiot in chief just literally formed a Ministry Of Truth. This time-line sucks. Love listening to you guys.

[@seans9134]

Rafe Judkins is the definition of failing upwards, hard pass on Season 2, but after my re-read of LOTR I think I'll start my 4th re-read of the WOT. Once I start reading I'll be like, "Whew it was just a dream that Rand was a moody loser turd, Mat's Dad was an drunk POS, Mat was a POS, Uno was a dwarf, they built a wall to defend against Trollocs with windows 10 feet from the base of the defense, everybody dresses and looks like garbage, Moraine and the Amyrlin are lovers and have hardcore sex, Moridin is a total tool, the Seanchan channeled a massive tidal wave to kill a 5 year old girl and Egwene is a moody bitch, oh wait they did get that part right."

[@seans9134]

@@zacharywalter8179 Negative, they may have hooked up when they were novices that is the only reference, its discussed present day in the books they are good friends, not lovers. It isn't implied that they are in love, having sex etc. The writers of the show were told (did not read it) and went all in with graphic Game of Thrones sex ++ the LGBTQ relationship as that was money for them. It was stupid

[@ianswinford5570]

Robert Jordan’s ghost is going to haunt Rafe for the rest of his life! This show is absolute garbage. This little disrespectful worm is an insult to fantasy writers everywhere!

[@GodwynDi]

He isn't a fantasy writer. If he was he wouldn't have to be corrupting other people's work and would have some of his own.

[@gunsmithcat7542]

For those who STILL don't know why they have a diverse cast: Here is the definitve explanation: To promote multiculturalism and diversity. Would they make everyone in a specific place ethnically homogenous and explained why people of a different ethnicity are where they are - that would promote ethno-nationalism. It would undermine the idea that people of a certain ethnicity belong to a certain palce and that they have to explain themselves whenever they are anywhere else - because they don't belong there. The "people" who made this show want to get rid of the very idea of ethno-nationalism and the entirety of the show only exists for this very purpose.

[@nathanmorgan3647]

Well stated.

[@solarmyth1945]

I’m glad someone here has their finger on the pulse and isn’t just “wow, just wow”ing and “they’re the real racists!”. Well put.

[@Lark88]

I think they want to turn everyplace into LA. If there needs to be a village, just make it LA with less people.

[@shevaunhandley1543]

Yes and good on them for doing so. However they could have used other areas of the story to get this point across. As much as I don't disagree with the studio's reasons for using as much diversity as they put in the season (indeed I applaud it - the actress who plays Egwene is Indigenous Australian), the premise of ethno-nationalism in the books is integral to the plot lines of the story. This is what is being argued here. The Aes Sedai are not governed by ethno-nationalism, nor are the White Cloaks (arguably) and finally, neither are the Seanchan. Ethnic diversity could have been (and was) easily placed amongst those three groups without detracting from the premise and plot lines. Robert Jordan was extraordinarily precise with his descriptions of places, people (most main characters and some sub-characters) and dress because it all mattered to the story. The show has thrown out all of what Robert Jordan and Brandon Sanderson wrote in preference to their own agendas and it's insulting.

[@nathanmorgan3647]

@@shevaunhandley1543 exactly right. Well said.

[@alasdaircook3030]

Words cannot describe how negative my thoughts of this show and the people behind it.

[@krs4395]

Tuon was on the Cover of The Crossroads of Twilight, she's black.

[@ctrlaltdebug]

Egwene too snooty? Later on she's constantly going on about Rand getting a swelled head and trying to bring him down a peg. But yes, she shouldn't be that way in book 1. Egwene inconsistent? After spending time with the Aiel, she will berate a man for having no honor, then go around spying(very dishonorable to Aiel) and lie straight up to Wise Ones. Shad has some nostalgia goggles thinking back on Egwene. I'm re-reading WoT and starting to really dislike her.

[@whyarealltaken]

she had moments like that in book one. like when she was asking Moraine about male aes sedai.

[@mr.s2005]

Never liked her much. Felt to much like an airhead for those first few books.

[@whyarealltaken]

@@mr.s2005 toward the end tho she gets pretty alright

[@lewiscampbell8683]

@@whyarealltakenat the end she’s even worse imo. Anything that isn’t done her way is done the wrong way according to her

[@whyarealltaken]

@@lewiscampbell8683 that's an aes sedai. I'm almost to the second Brando sando book. At this point I really enjoy her arc. I dislike how much she just has blanket disdain for rand though.

[@ardendragoon]

Shad as Boyle Doman, river captain.

[@robertopalmieri3803]

They also completely misunderstood Aiel lore, the whole point is that they're pale and obviously not originally from the Waste. Plus what's the point of Rand being half Aiel if the Aiel don't look like him?

[@jpeg.jordaan]

When they announced the show I said to friends if they fuck up Aviendha casting i'm going to lose my mind... here we are :( As bad as Siuan casting sigh

[@nathansteinfromarkham7109]

Another red head bites the dust. The hatred for redhead is really disgusting.

[@nightmarishcompositions4536]

One of the benefits of being a fan of grimdark fantasy is I don’t have to worry about my favorite series getting ruined because most of them are too graphic and explicit for television lol.

[@thejadedgeminigeek1293]

Aviendha should be red head about 5'8" and green eyes. very athletic and with a tan since she had a lot of time in the sun in the waste. One of my favorite characters in the WoT books. Almost top 5 character in the books for me.

[@jayclearmen411]

Exactly all the aiel should be well tanned like french or greek ppl especially with how the 3- fold land is described! Covered from head to toe with only there faces an hands showing everywhere covered with aiel wear Besides that No way should they be pale only pale Aiel should be rand! it’s made very clear in the books

[@MatthewLoom]

Oh boy when you mentioned Ariel the Little Mermaid I just had to sigh. They're ruining everything that we love.

[@sploosh6433]

Currently reading Lord of Chaos.. Demira Eriff an Aes Sedai gets stabbed by an Aiel described as a squat fellow and with black eyes.. But Aiel are lean and have light eyes. These kinda red flags that something is a wrong can't be done if descriptions are thrown to the wind.

[@kithrynevergreen]

if you're a redhead, now you're going to be asian or black... loved the comment. And I was joking about that to a friend of mine, cause I am a redhead and they were calling me a racist (it was a joke, so no hard feelings) but I made a comment in return that they should better be careful or I will pull out my 'redhaired-were-burned-on-the-stake-so-my-ancestors-were-victims-too' card. Btw Shad, I just got your book (audio) after finding this chanel over the rings-of-power reviews. I really enjoy your channel(s) :) Thanks for the great content and your love for robert jordans world