Wheel of Time, TV series vs the BOOKS, discussion | KNIGHTS WATCH

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[@UncleBlerd]

WHERE IS THE VOID!? Rand NEEDS the VOID!! It’s ESSENTIAL to his journey to who he is in the narrative!!

[@ngVAT579]

No he needs to get more intouch with his FEELINGS! THE VOID IS A LIE!!

[@ttabbal]

There isn't even Saidin/Saidar apparently. Without that, most of the story makes no sense.

[@marcel7077]

they gave the Aes Sedai the blue flower, but could not give the flame in the void to Rand... because reasons...

[@andrewfelsher7872]

@Billy Mumphry Ba'alzamon literally teaches Rand to channel using the female method of surrender. Not even a hint of the void.

[@Sb129]

Deleted, so much, gone.

[@Bacchian]

Here you go: ""You want to know that Aes Sedai are good and pure, that it was those wicked men of the legends who caused the Breaking of the World, not the women. Well, it was the men, but they were no more wicked than any men. They were insane, not evil. The Aes Sedai you will find in Tar Valon are human, no different from any other women except for the ability that sets us apart. They are brave and cowardly, strong and weak, kind and cruel, warm-hearted and cold. Becoming an Aes Sedai will not change you from what you are."

[@winxclubflora8446]

I am currently on book one(they just got separated at shadar logoth!) and for anyone who wants to know this quote is book one page 185,,chapter 13 choices.

[@justinah7400]

Only Amazon and Raef will completely change who they are

[@StrayMind]

I miss when adaptations were good and directors and writers wanted to bring the pages to life it seems somehow that's all changed and it's about bringing the screen writers vision to life of what they think it should be which never seems to be better than the source

[@ShadowKatt]

It's not complicated. It's called propaganda.

[@Karthig1987]

Agreed. Sad turn of events

[@murphsmodels8853]

It's been that way for a long time. One of my favorite authors is Clive Cussler. He's had two books "adapted" into movies: "Raise the Titanic" in 1980 and "Sahara" in 2005. The only similarities between the books and the movies are the titles, and main characters.

[@Karthig1987]

Damn that's terrible

[@christophergrove8636]

I wish there was a time like that. Occasionally you get a director who does a good job. Most of the time, it's a studio trying to make a quick buck and they don't give the show the time and in some cases freedom to be what it can. Other times they get a person who doesn't care about the original source material and they try to put their own spin on it. Finally one problem this show had which clearly impacted the final product was COVID. Due to restrictions to filming and safety precautions COVID did quite a number on the production. Also lets not forget the actor playing Matt left the show unexpectedly, which introduced another batch of problems. Adaptations are difficult enough to bring to screen, without all the other complications, this show failed, because of so many problems. It would have fared better as a movie series with a larger budget.

[@mariotrujillo8860]

Well I'm that much of a fan of the books, I do whole heartily agree that Robert Jordan was easily one of the most immersive and technically efficient writers of the last century. The fact that he pulls off plot armor aka tav'eren as cannon with out it feeling hand fisted is amazing.

[@AeneasGemini]

Honestly, Brandon Sanderson did it better.....

[@Mr.Batsu12]

@@AeneasGemini Brandon Sanderson did a great job of finishing the series but it wasn't without the massive amount of preparation Robert Jordan made before he died - along with the huge efforts of Robert's wife. Brandon was a massive WOT fan to begin with and he had massive respect for what Robert started. I'm not saying that Brandon is a bad writer in any way but I still would much rather have read Robert Jordan's ending if that was possible.

[@LA-qv1ir]

@@AeneasGemini I disagree. He was given the end of the books to work on and it was a fair tie-up job. But he was never tasked to continue the deep world-building Jordan kept putting into each book he wrote. Yes, Jordan built too much to finish within his lifetime, but to say Sanderson could have done better for this aspect, is wrong. The man was probably terrified to damage all the subtle work Jordan put in hence we get all the glossing over of details in the 3 books he (Sanderson) wrote to end the Wheel of Time.

[@Axterix13]

@@LA-qv1ir I don't think it is glossing over so much, as just making sure the story gets finished. Sanderson put the story back on track, after the last few Jordan written books just meandered all over the place following events and characters that didn't really matter. Jordan really needed an editor for those later books willing to put a foot down and make him cut volumes of stuff for the sake of the overall story.

[@jaykay6222]

@@Axterix13 I think we're all forgetting (or at least not putting enough credit toward) the fact that the last 3 books were originally intended to be the final book. There was so much content that it had to be split into three. If Brandon "glossed over" stuff, it was because one book had already been stretched to three, and not doing so would have made the expansion even larger.

[@dirtysink373]

the series was so bad, it made me start reading the books. Now at Lord of Chaos and thoroughly enjoying it

[@Ashaman0gbg]

Lord of Chaos... that book gave me goosebumps, aswell as my highest accolade in school where I was proof-read by the entire faculty to try and find a fault in my bookreview (english class had obligatory reading assignments). Its also the book which marks "the divide" in the fanbase from what I've seen. I see it as the story evolving, along with the characters and never saw any problem with that.. but some disagree. Either way, Enjoy Lord of Chaos - its one of the best books in a great series of books.

[@jugaloking69dope58]

the last 3 are epic ,different author but he hit the mark perfectly. couple books are slow but it is for a reason. the thoughts and actions of every character is important for the story

[@liberTvalance]

Dumai wells....

[@dirtysink373]

@@liberTvalance dumai wells indeed. Goosebumps were real. That two-word order oO

[@johnthomas2485]

I love every book. I need to reread them.

[@abramlinton3291]

What they did to Perrin is going to royally screw his future book relationship. Which is a real shame because it was one of my favorite parts of the series

[@David_randomnumber]

Don't worry, they won't make enough seasons to come to this part anyway.

[@AndrewTheFrank]

@Ardygon TV Nah, they will find a reason to keep her around the whole time because she's now the main.

[@SALSN]

At least they can't possibly make Faile any more infuriating than in the books. She is probably the "good guy" I dispise the most in all of fiction. But perhaps Perrin will be spared this time around. Not that I will be watching.

[@AndrewTheFrank]

@@SALSN I understand Faile being infuriating, but to me, during that period, Perrin is just as infuriating if not more. But by the end of their arc I end up liking them and their character's quite a bit and probably made that much better because they did rub off wrong for a short bit. Rand near the transition of Jordon to Sanderson had me wanting to put the series down and I dislike Egwene until she gets to Salidar. Now that I think about it I'm not sure there is a character that I consistently enjoy throughout the whole series. Some simply have bigger shifts than others. So to me there is room for them to mess more up.

[@LA-qv1ir]

Not comparable to the butt-reaming of Rand and Mat in the show.

[@alasdaircook3030]

What I find strange about it is that both Wheel of Time and Halo are stories about people working together. Be it men and women or human factions with different goals and ideologies. But the people who wrote the shows just want to make further division

[@megaflix6043]

It's the most spiteful butchering I've ever seen. I'm very grateful for you guys and the handful of others on youtube who have been pointing out what a colossal crime has taken place here. Without encountering you my wife (also a WoT fan) and I were starting to feel like we were going mad with the surreal volume of five star reviews on Amazon and WoT fan channels pretending there's nothing utterly wrong here.

[@NathanCassidy721]

I guarantee that those people either never read the books or haven’t read them since forever ago. The latter is the case with me as I wasn’t offended by the show when I watched it but knew there was something wrong. My impression was they wanted to turn it into Game of Thrones.

[@niallmurphy9376]

That bad? I thought it was going to be a very difficult adaptation, considering the depth of Jordan's created world. But that they just cut the the books to ribbons. That sucks. I'm not the biggest fan of some of the later books. But his memory deserves way better than a trashy rip off of his work.

[@NathanCassidy721]

@@niallmurphy9376 The problem fans have with it is not that it's difficult to adapt but what they decided to put in as a replacement. A good example would be Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings trilogy which did make some changes for the sake of continuity but was ultimately respectful to the original source material. With WoT it was a case of cutting out shit because it's "problematic" and inserting their own bullshit that is more problematic for society than what they "called out".

[@strider7008]

Sword of truth series was worse just not as woke

[@zombiehater6547]

5 Star reviews usually are bullshit when it comes to literally anything since it implies perfection when nothing can really be perfect. I never take them seriously, not when buying products, not when considering buying a video game or watching a movie. They are biased, opinion heavy and occationally just bots.

[@eltiket]

Books: timeless fantasy story that will live forever. TV series: woke fantasy story that will be soon forgotten.

[@winxclubflora8446]

Soon? It was forgotten even when we were watching the show😂it was horrible and you are right about the books!

[@viperswhip]

I doubt they will even finish the series.

[@robertdouth8979]

I could have even handled the bad casting, but they altered so much of the story in order to fit in the politics and sexuality. They chopped a thousand page book to a handful of episodes and then cut huge chunks, changed things that weren't necessary and undercut future book plot points (Suian Sanche's relationship after being stilled in later books is ruined by making her lesbian with Moiraine for the sole purpose of saying they included it, not to further the story in any meaningful way.) By all means put in whatever representation you want, but don't destroy this magnificent story to do it.

[@qp9vp]

@@viperswhip They have ordered a third season....unbelievable

[@englishlady9797]

The ebook of the first book of the series is on sale right now. I want to buy it but I am hestitant , because I heard Amazon changed the new editions to reflect what was in the series.

[@andrewfelsher7872]

16:10 Not only does Mat explicitly say he's not a thief, but he says this TO A TAR VALON GUARD (i.e. a cop) and the Guard IMMEDIATELY CONFIRMS that he doesn't think Mat is a thief. His eyes narrowed. “Is it that you did steal something from them?” he asked doubtfully. “You do no have the look of those the sisters do guest.” “I didn’t steal anything!” Mat said indignantly. Burn me, I didn’t even get a chance to work around to it easy. They must all know me. “I’m no thief!” “No, it is no that I do see in your face. No thievery. But you do have the look of the fellow who did try to sell me the Horn of Valere three days gone. So he did claim it did be, all bent and battered as it did be. Do you have a Horn of Valere to sell? Or mayhap it do be the Dragon’s sword?”

[@dudeguy8686]

Shad playing Halo, and Oz listening to Wheel of Time, it's a beautiful moment of nerdhood. Both of you have some truly awesome stories to delve into. For Shad's "research", I highly recommend The Fall of Reach, by Eric Nylund. It's a relatively short book, but covers some important moments in Halo's lore. For Wheel of Time, any chance we'll get some book discussions as Oz and Nathan finish them?

[@bus3957]

This comment needs to be read. As I have the same question. Plus, that is a good recommendation.

[@TiroDvD]

This situation reminds me of the memes of Doom Guy and Isabella (from Animal Crossing) and how they are good friends and have great fun in each others games. If something is legitimately (metaphysically) good, it just grows and grows.

[@jonlonglastname]

I picked up the Wheel of Time at the library in 1994. Then the roller coaster of the story began in my life. I remember being in Marine boot camp, and friends would mail me pages of the new book that came out. Finding out about the sickness of Jordan. Then his unfortunate passing. Having mixed feelings about Sanderson. The travesty that is the Amazon show. I'm glad I found a few places where opinions against the show are allowed. Keep it up gents

[@DaFatNomad]

i started the wheel of time when i got home from active duty from the Corps.

[@jonlonglastname]

@Billy Mumphry I totally got caught and smoked by the drill instructors for contraband hahah.

[@RexRude99]

It was in 1997 for me. I had an internship for a company that left me with a LOT of spare time. Went through a lot of books that summer.

[@DaFatNomad]

No I don't believe it would. LMAO.in fact the DI would probably make up a game to put you to. Lol

[@DaFatNomad]

That's supposed to say pit you too. Damn autocorrect

[@imperatorofbenera]

I ended up reading WoT due to Shad's rage. I've only read 9 of the series so far. And I must say, I am very happy about the fact that I came to read this series.

[@max8m1]

Man you're either a very quick reader or have a lot of time for reading :/ Started reading the series months before the tv show started airing, and I'm only in the middle of book 6. But man is it good so far!

[@revpembroke3082]

9? That means you're at or approaching book 10. I'm so sorry. (Book 10 is categorically and unequivocally the worst book in the series. Fortunately, book 11 is one of the best.)

[@imperatorofbenera]

@@revpembroke3082 yeah. I had some difficulty getting to book 9. But the payoff of 9 really justified it. Even if 10 will be difficult, I've already read over half the books. I'll finish the series

[@ichibancho]

@@imperatorofbenera I re-read the books in response to the show. A lot of the later books I had only read once before, a loooong time ago. I agree, book 9 starts to get bad and book 10 is the worst. Having read them before I decided to do some extreme skimming of them to get through it. 11 is pretty good again (although not the best. But I suspect some people really like it because it continues the trend of Mat being a super interesting character). However, I must warn you. Once you get into the Brandon Sanderson books you are in for a shock. Like I said, I have read them all once before, but the experience of reading them all right in a row and at a relatively rapid pace has given me a completely different opinion on them from my first reading. Sanderson mangles a lot of characters and it was very very unpleasant for me. Even book 10 I was able to get through easier than Sanderson's books.

[@hege6300]

Shad's rants and the desire to erase the show from my head canon were the reasons I started my Light knows how manyth re-read of the series. And I love it still. And find new details. So great series.

[@waylander9265]

The following characters in the show have traits or actions that directly contradict their book counterparts: Rand, Mat, Lan, Perrin, Egwene(Egwene has as psychopathic lack of empathy), Agelmar, Valda (Valda views torture as pointless), Abell Cauthon, Siuan,. When you betray that many characters fans aren’t going to support your “adaptation”

[@adarian]

I can not think of a single character in the show that they did not have them be contradictory to the book.

[@David_randomnumber]

@@adarian what about that suicidal warder ? The only way for them to not mess a character up is obviously inventing one.

[@phyconinga]

You forgot Nynaeve...no idea how it's spelled. First time you see her she's throwing Egwayne off the cliff to drown her or something...she literally talks about how men do stupid things to get them in trouble and how she will protect her people.. also she and the women's circle would have had thumped TV Nynaeve for sleeping with Lan before marriage.

[@AndrewTheFrank]

To be fair Egwene kind of is a complete B in the books until she goes to Salidar. I found her an annoying character when around any of the boys. Always finding a reason to think of them negatively if not insult them directly to their face. But once she separates from them she quickly goes from one of my most disliked characters to one of my favorite ones.

[@GuitarsAndSynths]

@@AndrewTheFrank same with Aviendha

[@davidr5087]

I wasnt going to read the books because of how bad the show is but this video changed my mind.

[@samurai90x]

good rule of thumb to be honest, is to read a show's source material especially if the show is crap, i picked up wheel of time on a whim a week or two ago i'm on the 7th book good stuff.

[@andykeiser6049]

it gets a little out of control after book nine or so but it comes back together in the end. It is one of my favorite series if not my most favorite. I have gone back to it time and time again and it has never failed to entertain on a second or third or even forth reading.

[@jennycomelately]

I watched the show and hated it in a funny way. Then I read the first 3 books and loved them. Then I rewatched the show and hated it in an angry way. 🙁 (Force Oz to rewatch the show and give his new takes lol.)

[@Dc-wp1cc]

This only makes me more afraid for the Rings of Power. Might have to read the Wheel of Time.

[@krishnakantbhatt9947]

Do it whenever you can It's therapeutic

[@spacejunk2186]

What do you mean, "afraid"? it hypes me up even more! Let the shit come. I am ready.

[@benjamintherogue2421]

More afraid? We all already know exactly what it will be. If you're not resigned to its inevitable fate, you're not going to be ready.

[@icecell]

my stance is that I wish for all the critique vids to be so plentiful that new blood will come not into the tv series, but directly to the books.

[@marcel7077]

in Germany we have a show format called "Schlefaz" thats an acronym for "worst movies of all time", where really really bad movies are shown... i mean really really bad... some examples are: "The Bees", "6-Headed Shark Attack", "Dragon Crusaders"... those movies to watch is entertaining, because they are aproaching the good ratings from 1 - 10 through going so negative, they come out on the 10 from the other side ;o) but the WoT show or also the upcoming Rings of Power? nope, they will never be in any review for entertainment.

[@haku8135]

You can't even say the dagger is what's causing Mat to be the way he is. Even ignoring everything BEFORE the dagger is introduced, we see a LOT of Mat with the dagger. It causes him to distrust people, more and more over time. Rand is the one he trusts the longest, so while they're traveling together they get along fine, but if someone else shows up he gives them the evil eye. There's a point where Rand gets sick, very sick. And Mat does EVERYTHING he can to help him and make him feel better and protect him as well. He stays up to watch over Rand, he attends very closely to everything he needs, he takes GOOD freaking care of his friend when he's in need. Rand does the same thing when Mat gets temporarily blinded by a lightning bolt's flash. These are some damn good friends, and while they're traveling together EVEN WITH THE DAGGER they clearly LIKE being around each other, and they trust one another. Then after they get to Caemlyn the dagger starts to really take Mat away and he just stays in bed all day alone because he thinks EVERYONE is going to kill him and he even starts to suspect Rand as well, and that's the point where its gotten SO bad the instant Moiraine sees him she HISSES and shouts at everyone to get well the fuck away from him, and he starts swinging his dagger around at people! So yeah after a full MONTH of travel Mat should be GONE, but hey you know who needs to be detailed just "eh a month or whatever goes by, sure" Yeah THIS Mat and even this Rand? Totally different characters.

[@alispeed5095]

l loved that time when rand and mat traveled alone, the struggle they had to go through to survive really tempered them and prepared them for what the wheel later threw at them.

[@FebbieG]

I think I'm a middle ground person with the rape in Shadow of the Conqueror. I didn't like it, because it was difficult for *me* , not because I thought it was a bad writing decision. Game of Thrones is something I would never read or watch; it's just too graphic. I even had a hard time with rape in Mistborn the first time I read it. However, I can obviously see that as a "me" problem, not an "author" problem. It's just like trigger warnings. My trauma and triggers are my own problem that I need to take responsibility for, and I don't need the media world to hold my hand as I deal with them; I have personal loved ones to help with that.

[@aaronbarnett9723]

The problem with the show stating it was the arrogance of men, is that is is false. Near the end of The War of the Shadow, 2 main plans formed. Plan 1: Latra planned to use 2 massive sa'angreal, the Chodean Kal, to create a barrier around the Bore, imprisoning the Dark One that way. Plan 2: Lews Therin would go to the Bore physically and attempt to seal the hole in the Dark One's prison using seals. Only Male Aes Sedai agreed to this plan Plan 1 fell apart when the forces of Shadow took control of the area where the access keys to the Chodean Kal were being held. The Shadow had no idea the keys were there, but it soon became apparent that the Shadow would realize what the keys were for, and to prevent the Shadow from using the Chodean Kal, Lews Therin set out with 100 Male channelers to seal the Dark One. It was not out of arrogance it was out of need. It was a literal Hail Mary, because if the Shadow used the Chodean Kal, it could have possibly broke the Wheel. At the last moment the Dark One struck out, tainting Saidin. This taint is what drove Male channelers mad, and creating what is called the Breaking. The Dark One is ultimately responsible for the Breaking, not men.

[@37thgungrunts]

It was arrogance to limit yourself to 100 channelers instead of a large circle. Arrogance was Lews Therin's biggest flaw. Hell, he's so proud and arrogant that he *literally* drove one of the forsaken into the shadows because he couldnt let him have even the smallest victory It's literally mentioned in AMOL that the reason the Dragon is hopeful this time is because he has a father who raised him to be more humble.

[@hismajestylordsmenkhare5878]

@@37thgungrunts that's kinda true, but ultimately Lews Therin didn't go with 100 men because he arrogantly thought that's all that was required he originally wanted all ages sedai to work together at sealing the bore, but ultimately only 100 men agreed to follow him after the choden kal keys were lost, he only had that many he wanted more he wanted women to help, he was arrogant sure and he was very proud but in this case it was pretty much necessity that lead his actions not arrogance and he lacked support, most believed all was lost without the choden kal there were many suicide missions to regain the keys that were not successful time was running out, Lews Therin bought time and saved the wheel yes at great cost but it was a lower cost than the alternative

[@37thgungrunts]

@@hismajestylordsmenkhare5878 the dark one can't break the wheel. Only the dragon can

[@ichibancho]

51:11 About Rand being the Dragon in the first book. If I recall correctly, the way that the book misdirects you is that Moraine hardly ever talks about "The Dragon" at all (and maybe even NOT at all, until the last line of the book. Because she never talks about it, the other characters never talk about it. They are much more concerned with themselves as a group, rather than individuals. So, in the same way that only really observant readers would realized that Balzamon isn't really the Dark One, only especially observant readers would guess that Rand is The Dragon. Except of course that he's the main character and that just makes it so easy to assume that he's some kind of super hero right from the get go. Although Rand channels several times before the end of the book, he doesn't know it, and many readers could miss it too if they aren't catching the hints. Rand himself is never worried about channeling until the very end once they get to the Eye of the World. I think the only reason the Logain side plot is in the book is to drop a massive hint that Rand is the guy, without he himself picking up on that hint at all.

[@alertpenguin8403]

And then when you learn latter on in the series that the reason logain laughs is because he knew what rand was just by looking at him is an incredible reveal.

[@taediumv1tae]

Your initial reviews of that poor excuse of a show pushed me to reading the whole series of the books. Thank you for that, as otherwise I would have missed out on such a great piece of literature. Keep up the good work.

[@atrex1991]

On the point of men and women working together to make the world better the book states that the greatest works during the age of legends was only accomplished through men and women working together. The conversation on warders needs to be had as well. I'm on the 3rd to last book and there is a conversation between a warder in training (youngling) and a warder where the warder tells the youngling that his aes sedai told him that she would only accept another warder if he approved of them. The warder then goes to tell the youngling that it has been 10 years of looking and he believes that the youngling would be a good warder for his aes sedai. The show is just missing so much of the dynamics that make aes sedai and warder relationships so good in the book.

[@LA-qv1ir]

It's obvious none of the decision makers on the show have read the books. They probably tasked interns to summarize each book and highlight which parts can be used to push their agenda. They also probably asked their interns to mark sections that have a strong masculine tone in order to mark opportunities to subvert and/or retell the scenes in the perspective of a female or non-male character.

[@darktenor4967]

Interesting fact, I began the books in 2006, having only read Robert Jordan's conan the barbarian stories, and was expecting the same thing, fun, archetypal, but essentially simplistic fantasy. Wowwas I wrong! Second interesting fact. in 2014, I, a rather shy fellow, was on a mailing list talking about books. After helping people out with some technical matters, I get a private email from a very nice lady, who was also very shy. she gets on to Wheel of time and absolutely gushes! about the series! This lead to further conversations, which lead to telephone chat. A year later, she's literally moved countries and we're married! its no exaggeration to say that Wheel of time, along with us both being classical singers, brought us together! We're currently reading the series again, third time for me, god knows how many times for her! she is pretty obsessed, even wears an ais-sidai great serpent ring opposite to her wedding ring, (not one of the crappy show ones. She considers herself green Aja; ; I have the matching Ashaman cufflinks. Her opinion of the series is not repeatable in polite company, watching the show with her was sort of a weekly torture, indeed she's even angrier at what has happened to the characters than I am! So thanks for the video, and the recognition of the importance of this series, that literally bought my lady and I together.

[@WalaVeioMala]

My first reaction when I found out they were making a live adaptation of wheel of time was of pure joy, but it was followed almost instantly by fear of the woke shit. Then I saw the casting, and my fears were confirmed, I could barely watch the first 3 episodes, It's like they intentionally took everything good from the books out and replaced by political agenda and horrendous writing, I simply can't stand it. And they are doing it again to the Lord of the Rings series... one day we will be vindicated, I just hope to be alive to see it.

[@maxdelpo5578]

To be honest, the cast was great. One of the few high point of the show

[@megaflamer]

the greatest irony is that if they'd just stuck to the books they would have gotten the subversion they so desperately wanted, the WoT universe after all, is mostly matrilineal (with good reason, the aes sedai has basically called all shots for god knows how long) and that without utterly corrupting what the books are

[@Ashaman0gbg]

@@maxdelpo5578 Cant really say I agree. Weak performances all around, with a failure to understand the characters. Granted thats probably a directing/direction issue.. but even so... Rosamund Pike is not Moiraine, she could be an Aes Sedai, but not Moiraine. Add to that, that she kinda 'acts' like she just took the job for the money - very little heart. Which makes me curious how her Narration of the books are, kinda want to listen and see if there's more life in her there.

[@TechnoMinarchist]

@@megaflamer They wanted the show to have a world where Aes Sedai are still powerful (because it lines up with yas queen slay) but at the same time they wanted to still claim the world is run by men, because they need to inject _The Message_ into everything, and _The Message_ doesn't fit into an actual matriarchal world made reality as it would mean women are the ones in power and thus they are to be the ones judged by _The Message_

[@rockieroad6097]

@@Ashaman0gbg Is she really doing a narration? Interesting

[@craiggallagher4461]

Shad is completely correct, Amazon’s “Woke of Prime” is a massive stain on the WoT and I shudder at the damage the show does to the property despite those that are able to see past it and find actual enjoyment by reading the books instead.

[@0142Jason]

I’d like to point out a correction @34:40 where OZ says it took Jordan a lifetime to write Wheel of time when he actually only wrote it in the later years of his life. First book in 1990, second book in the same year. Last personal written book before his death in 2005. That’s 12 full length novels including the prequel in just 15 years. I’m not been critical or anything, I loved this video. But good old Robert was a literal lovecraftian human typewriter when it came to the amount of books he wrote.

[@elpsykongroo8308]

Regarding Nyneave, I think I know why her character feels somewhat closer to how she is in the books but still feels off....it's because they changed Moiraine's character but didn't take that into account when writing Nyneave. In the books Moiraine is far more emotionless, secretive and manipulative, Nyneave is the exact opposite of that, so there is a lot of tension between them, in fact all of them except Egwene can't get along with Moiraine because of how she is, but in the show Nyneave is still just as angry at her as in the books but they changed Moiraine to being more emotional and honest, so that makes Nyneave look unnecessarily angry and bitchy.

[@samurai90x]

i dunno man, i still feel like nyneave is unnecessarily angry and bitchy having only read the books

[@ngVAT579]

I'm on book 8 on audible. No freaking comparison! Books are epic. Show epically bad!

[@Santisima_Trinidad]

Obligatory #BoycottAudible because audible pays authors significantly less of a commission than all other audiobook providers and that is scummy and wrong.

[@pakkenpk5598]

@@Santisima_Trinidad just because I'm not educated on the subject, what other digital audiobook companies would you recommend? I know some places on the "Seven seas" I could download them, but as you say I'd rather see the author make some money.

[@Santisima_Trinidad]

@@pakkenpk5598 from what I've heard, google book's offers authors a fairer rate, although as far as I'm aware bassically every audiobook provider offers a significantly better rate than audible, as audible is the scummy exception to the rule, rather than just the largest member of a group of scummy provider's.

[@ryanodom6101]

Rand is just a more important NPC in the show. He's there to fill a role, but he's not a fleshed out character

[@katherine6326]

He's basically a slave to his fate. His character arc is learning to accept that and not let it drive him insane. I thought it was an interesting take on the chosen one trope.

[@robertdouth8979]

@@katherine6326 It's taking the idea of the reluctant hero to the extreme for sure.

[@alispeed5095]

@@robertdouth8979 l personally didnt like how hopeless it was, dude literally had no free will or atleast at time its portrayed as such

[@loialbebrief5395]

"You want to belive that were those wicked man who broke the world and that Aes Sedai are pure. Well, it was the men, but they were insane, not evil." PS - this is off the top of my head, but close enough to the exact line.

[@samurai90x]

"You want to know that Aes Sedai are good and pure, that it was those wicked men of the legends who caused the Breaking of the World, not the women. Well, it was the men, but they were no more wicked than any men. They were insane, not evil."

[@JoshWashington]

33:00 My main impression of Moraine in the books is that she is a strong leader. On the same level as a Queen or the Amyrlin Seat. There have been several scenes in the book where by her presence and voice she commands respect over groups of people.

[@alvinadorno6105]

It was a woman that drilled the hole into the dark ones prison. And it was a woman that denied the dragon help to seal the bore.

[@revpembroke3082]

I mean, yeah, but Lanfear was working with Beidoman, and had the women helped Lews Therin, they might've been driven insane too.

[@ichibancho]

@@revpembroke3082 +1. I would have written basically the same thing if you hadn't.

[@abigailslade3824]

@@revpembroke3082 no if women had aided the men in sealing the bore each side of the one power would have protected the other.

[@historymax5479]

@@abigailslade3824 No, that would have tainted both halves of the Power. The only way to avoid the taint is to do it in the way Rand did in MoL(Not mentioning it because spoilers).

[@abigailslade3824]

@@historymax5479 you are just plain wrong I can’t explain why without spoilers but it’s fact.

[@sirtrystepain2292]

Hi. I'm French, but I've been following your channel for a while now. I had never leaned too much on the Wheel of Time and I was waiting for the series to discover this universe. The disappointment was great and I said to myself that it was really not for me and pretty bad. But you talk about it with such passion that you convinced me to buy the first volume and start reading this story.

[@aweetodd]

Been listening to Wheel of time for almost two years now. Just finished it last week. It feel like a huge accomplishment but at the same time I'm sad it's over

[@beardybeardface]

read stormlight archive next

[@beardybeardface]

will he ride alone?

[@nidgeot9968]

The re-read of WoT is even better than the first time!

[@aweetodd]

@Billy Mumphry my favorite scene in the entire series which also might be my favorite anything in anything is when Rand makes a certain group of women kneel to him after the whole box trauma

[@aweetodd]

@@beardybeardface currently I am listening to Elric of melibone and I promise a friend I read some Horus Heresy but after that's next on my list. Already downloaded

[@AndrewTheFrank]

Some of the story telling with Egwene and Nynaeve are so well done by Robert Jordan that you'd almost think they were ta'veren. But by excluding them as such it makes their accomplishments that much greater. Much of what Rand, Perrin and Matt can achieve is explained as Deus Ex Machina and if these two girls were also ta'veren, as they show has made them, it inherently undercut their accomplishments and competency. By the show making them one of the many chosen ones their characters lose value. sad.

[@katherine6326]

Exactly! The three ta'veren characters are basically slaves to their fate. Many of the accomplishments only happen because the pattern pushed them in that direction because it was needed. Egwene accomplished what she did through her own choice to do the right thing. She could have just sat back and been the puppet Amyrlin the Salidar Aes Sedai were looking for, and she would have had an easy ride. She CHOSE to step up, become a proper Amyrlin, and save the White Tower. She put in tons of work studying under Siuan's mentorship to learn the role and threw herself into it 100%. Calling her ta'veren doesn't make her a cooler character, it cheapens everything she accomplished through her own ambition and force of will!

[@anonymouslyopinionated656]

The fact that generalizations and differences on average exist is sexist to these people. I always thought that Nyn's struggles with Saidar showed a perfect counterpoint. She is a woman, but clearly was not in tune with the "stereotypically feminine" traits that Saidar needed... Nyn would've had an easier go with Saidin. I read that as a clear depiction of stereotypes/roles/expectations/trends exist, but we are all individuals and don't always conform!

[@jefffreese947]

I am an embarassingly huge WoT fan from inception (for me 1990), and was terrified when the announcement came out that Amazon had the rights. It was a HUGE undertaking to effectively adapt the books, and they failed at every level. The "core" characters were essentially card-board cut-outs that somehow were not developed at all over 7 hours of screen time, but there was plenty of time to focus on the "modern day sensibilities". I honestly wouldn't have recognized any of the characters from the books except those of the Red Ajah. It was like the creators were more worried about diversity, sexual orientation, and feminism than actually telling a good story, and it showed in the final product. I watched the first season out of obligation to Robert Jordan, but I'm done and Amazon is pouring good money after bad. I feel for the hard-core Tolkien fans because the Ring of Power looks to follow the same plan, and the backlash is going to EPIC.

[@abigailslade3824]

And now they are moving on to the riftwar too

[@kendallvision]

Love WoT and love Sanderson's books as well. But I have to admit that Sanderson's take on Amazon's WoT diminished his cred with me.

[@Ashaman0gbg]

oh I agree with you wholeheartedly. Though I think he has some legal stuff binding him. As he mentioned something about him being asked to give input on certain parts of the show. So if he spoke out on things too harshly, Amazon could perhaps just have him dragged to court.

[@kendallvision]

@@Ashaman0gbg Good point, and I would love to give him a pass on that account, but he specifically said he had an agreement that he could say whatever he wanted good/bad to the fans. So, there may be another motivation, but it would not be worry about legal action. Either way, loss of cred with me.

[@Ashaman0gbg]

@@kendallvision I wouldnt be surprised if there's a stormlight or mistborn show in the pipeline at amazon - so to avoid 'issues' he's playing the devils advocate... cause generally I feel he's quite in touch with the fanbase of various book-series

[@katherine6326]

His agreeable personality is his biggest flaw. I actually revoked my contribution to his Kickstarter campaign because he gave into the leftist outrage mob on Twitter and started donating a large chunk of the funds he raised to "diverse" creators on Kickstarter. I thought that was such a spineless weasel move that I couldn't continue to back him in good conscience.

[@rockieroad6097]

This is what Brandon told me. " I obliviously don't dislike the adaptation to the level you do, but I also think you presume more power is in my and Harriet's hands than there is. Robert Jordan sold these rights before he died. There is nothing anyone--not me nor Harriet--could do to stop Amazon and Sony from doing whatever they want. I am allowed to offer advice, and I'm glad when they take it. But I have no say over what gets filmed, and neither does Harriet." So, I still like Brandon Sanderson.

[@gogroxandurrac]

1:01:50 I would have been much less angry about the casting of the Two Rivers folk if it wasn't for Mat. Mat who has the strongest connection to the old blood of any of them being white means that the showrunners aren't even trying to be consistent, they are purposefully forcing diversity for diversity's sake. Lore be damned. Them being inclusive and promiscuous was worse than their skin color, imo, as far as reflecting the Two Rivers accurately. Homogenous to the point of near incest and deeply distrustful of strangers. Even the Terran Ferry people are mistrusted as "outsiders" for a lot of the books.

[@JayMoreau]

Uno as a Caucasian Sheinaran is ridiculous.

[@richardgray4485]

Oz finally can understand the travesty that is Mat in the show

[@alvinadorno6105]

How did nynive surrender to the river if at this point in the story she couldn’t do it. She just couldn’t surrender to anything.

[@marcel7077]

to be fair ( i am in book 10 currently ) Nyneave is still the most annoying characterin the whole series... she has absolutely no good qualities besides the desire to heal... but still thats good quality writing from Jordan, because there are people exactly like that out there.

[@katherine6326]

Because this is modern day Hollywood. Her mental block is a flaw that nerfs her immense power for the first 7 books. We can't have a woman who has major personal flaws she needs to overcome before she can unlock her potential! According to hollywood leftists, a woman's strength can't come from working hard, suffering, and overcoming personal shortcomings. She has to be THE BESTEST EVAR from the very beginning or else she can't be considered strong.

[@hismajestylordsmenkhare5878]

Nyneave's early uses of power is different due to her circumstances it's only later she actually learns to surrender though for her it's more like merge and mutually cooperate than surrender, there are people like her in the books that under certain circumstances can wield the power many die without learning control, nyneave is a lucky one

[@gregorde]

I’ve read the books at least three times(although there’s a lot of the middle bits I skim). I read them as they came out. My disappointment in the tv series was immeasurable.

[@EnsignRedshirtRicky]

We all know Shad's wife is Aes Sedai, and he is a Warder. The showrunner for the WoT is the Dark One.

[@svensorensen7693]

The show makes a lot more sense when you realize that the ones making it are friends of the dark.

[@kalxek1462]

The show is one of the possible worlds from the last book

[@barryallen2240]

@@zenstrata well shad like talking about swords

[@therealgreyman]

can you imagine perrin aybarra, who in the books is a quiet blacksmith apprentice. but in the adoptation he is married and the real blacksmith is his wife. its atrocious in a new level.

[@ChanakyanStudent7971]

BTW you guys never reviewed the rest of Arcane So... When is that?

[@duffman5504]

Great vid fellas, I’m enjoying your insights, if u need an idea for a future vid u could review Vinland saga, the undertones in the story make for great conversations and debates, cheers

[@lightningpenguin8937]

I agree with shad on the stain thing. Your first experience determines in you want to go in. However, words of mouth are pretty strong. Learning how inaccurate, and off something is gives it another shot. Just going from personal experience.

[@annaanisa7388]

I told myself when I am done deep-diving into the immersive world of Tolkein I would read the WoT series next. I watched the first episode of WoT a while back just to see how crappy it would be and I haven’t seen an episode since. (Anything “original” from Amazon or Netflix is total junk to me - with the exception of the absolute masterpiece of a show, “The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance”… which they cancelled 😭😤🤬) From the perspective of a total outsider, in the first episode alone I could sense something was off without quite being able to put my finger on it. There were little things/events here and there that made me question if it was portrayed the same way in the books or if it was altered. I’d completely lost interest (as I expected to). BUT in protest to Amazon - and other media platforms - and their disgusting obsession with destroying well-loved book series in the name of modern politics, my interest in the books have *heightened* even more. I’m pretty certain Amazon will absolutely ruin LoTRTRoP. More than likely I’ll watch the first episode just to see how bad they’ve ruined it, only never to watch it again. Preparing to be utterly enraged for the next 60 years…

[@xenomorph6599]

Dont even give them the one view. We know its just gonna be garbage.

[@KerrMalygos]

>Anything “original” from Amazon or Netflix is total junk to me I liked "Dark"

[@odotawaissaku3755]

The OA was actually amazing (no fuckin idea why they cancelled it)

[@di3486]

I won’t even watch a second of it. They even killed my curiosity.

[@tobiassalisbury245]

When I heard Oz talking about Thom, my first thought was: you don't know nothin yet! There is so much more to his character than you can see in the first several books.

[@Sunrunner663]

So, in some way the series did good at least. My friend said: "Read the books, their much better", Chad said the same... I'm now starting book 6, and I'm sure I'll finish the series in no time!

[@glych002]

After the show aired I re-read the all the books… and it is very apparent that the show writers are talentless and probably never read the books but are going off an event timeline made by someone that read the books but really doesn’t care about Robert Jordan’s vision but thinks he can usurp the original vision and turn it into his own twisted political legacy. It is really sad.

[@brianetie86]

Honestly what the show revealed to me is that it just isn’t possible to make a proper WoT adaptation in live action. No studio will ever be willing to green light the absurd budget and large amount of hours/episodes needed to do it justice, regardless of if any talented people are involved.

[@maxdelpo5578]

Yep. They should have done something like Arcane. By the way, original stories (bonus content) are amazing. Better than the show for sure

[@onepresence9460]

@@maxdelpo5578 Yeah it should have been animated from the start. And more faithful to the books of course.

[@37thgungrunts]

The issue is the director had a goal to "fix" RJ's work.

[@shawnbirch7104]

You guys are awesome.

[@jancz357]

Problem with conservatives is that we are trying to be fair and consistent, thats why we are loosing, its not hypocricy its hyerarchy and conservatives are at the bottom

[@samuelaritan3766]

Mat, Perrin, Rand, Lan, Tam, Abel, Loial, and Agelmar were all done dirty one way or another. This was glaringly highlighted when none of the women could do any wrong, got power boosts, and got to scene steal on top of it.

[@LordLewsTheDragon]

Shocking information on Knights Watch today: good books are better than literal piles of shit. Oh sorry, you were talking about the show. I can't tell the difference.

[@Mr.Batsu12]

I've been a WOT fan since the early 90s and have read the books and listened to the audio books many times over the years. I'm happy to hear how you went on about how good Robert Jordan's writing is. It's not just the story he tells but the quality of his writing that pulls you in. In some areas it's almost poetic but what I love most of all is how his writing brings life and uniqueness to his characters. If you are familiar with the books I think you would agree with me that the following quotes perfectly fit the characters that said them: "Almost dead yesterday, maybe dead tomorrow, but alive, gloriously alive, today." Mat Cauthon "In wars, boy, fools kill other fools for foolish causes." Thom Merrilin "I've seen men die because they were sure that what should not happen, would not." Tam al'Thor "Death comes for us all. We can only choose how to face it when it comes." Aviendha "There is one rule, above all others, for being a man. Whatever comes, face it on your feet." al'Lan Mandragoran

[@Climax85]

glad Oz got into the books, interesting to see the perspective of one who started with the show as well!

[@DarthEvilicus]

All these recent desecrations of beloved franchises were made by repurposers that have never created anything original, were never involved in the original and don’t care about the integrity of the brand because it was never theirs to begin with

[@katherine6326]

They're not repurposing anything. They are intentionally subverting the stories they adapt. Their goal is to destroy our culture.

[@BrassChuckles]

I saw the trailer and thought WTF. My Prime membership had just ran out before its run on Amazon, so haven't seen an episode. Looks like I've dodged an arrow to the knee, there. I have heard it is full of current day agendas. Another bait and switch stitch-up.

[@tieshaunntanner6846]

I gotta ask, do you guys know the Wheel of Time videogame? It's from the late 90s, and has recently been re-released on GOG. Any fan of WoT who's the least bit interested in video games should take a look, it's REALLY faithful to the lore (and it tells an original story, rather than retelling the books)

[@Ashaman0gbg]

actually owned the original until I accidentally snapped the CD when bringing it to a friends house. Was sad times. Might actually check it out on GoG, cheers.

[@MarkusBartus]

I picked up Eye of the World after your discussion and without you I wouldn't make this decision so thank you Shad, now I am starting book 6 and I just loving it.

[@ViperChief117]

Which is a worse adaptation? Wheel of Time or Halo The TV series??? XD

[@DoomguyIsGrinningAtYou.]

Which is a worse adaptations? This pile of turds or that pile of turds?

[@cheeseburgersuperior1874]

My answer: Yes.

[@onepresence9460]

Yes.

[@badgamemaster]

Shad, you got the title of the video wrong... it's the fan fiction vs the books.

[@cymrych79]

Except ... I don't think I'd call the show writers/runners fans of the books. I'd even go so far as to say they outright disliked major aspects of the book series, as near as I can tell. I don't know why else they'd have gone as seemingly far out of their way to change essential elements of the world, the lore, the settings, or the characters as they have, unless they felt these were features needing to be "fixed". And based on what all they've "fixed" for the show, it doesn't seem like they really appreciated or approved of much or any of the original source material from the books. At best, I'd say this is misplaced social propaganda under the guise of a fan fic. It didn't really matter if it was using WoT as its base; the series they chose to "adapt" was only important for drawing in a ready-made audience. I think any major attention-grabbing series would have sufficed, because at the heart of the tv series is a story only superficially related to the story of the books. There are shared character names and locations, there is magic, an evil dark lord, and the prophesized rebirth of a legendary hero to battle the forces of darkness. Beyond these superficial details, however, the story is only barely recognizable as being derived from the WoT books because that's not the story the tv writers wanted to tell.

[@Eryomis]

I do hope we'll have more videos about Oz's journey with the books!

[@offdutyjie]

Try and fit "Fall of Reach" for your Halo playthroughs too. It might not involve Chief, but man... The story is so well told in retrospect and its probably the most cinematic of the Halo games. The group dynamic - the main character Noble 6 being pretty much the second strongest character in the Halo Universe and the tragedy behind everything - its really one of my favorite modern game stories ever done.

[@0142Jason]

I always thought of Lan as fantasy Batman.

[@relytdragon5626]

This, isn't entirely wrong.

[@Santisima_Trinidad]

I heard something a while ago that was like "show emotions, tell descriptions" or something like that. Good authors are great at that.

[@leewat3742]

Only a few mins in, but the way Robert Jordan wrote these books and the details he describes in them should be a screen writers dream. Ok, you do need to change a few things because its not a book and you cant show what someone is thinking, but what they did is a travesty. RJ goes into such detail that you can actually see in your minds eye what people look like and how they are dressed with very little imagination needed, can you imagine if the set designers and props departments would have read them how that show would have looked, everything would have been visually perfect. Still would have been crap due to the writers though. Killing off Algemar in the first series is a proper (insert favourite expletive) up , I am reading book 13 and he's still alive and kicking, because he is needed for the story. I'll watch the rest now :)

[@christophermcknight3144]

Can you please do a series of videos documenting Oz's journey through the Wheel of Time books. Its wonderful to see the work through new eyes. Put up Spoiler Warnings so its safe. Thank you all for the hard work you put in.

[@robwalsh9843]

I'm still angry about the treatment of my man Lan, hell.....all of the male characters really. The Warder cry therapy scene made me want to drink a shot of Southern Comfort.

[@GuitarsAndSynths]

and how they ruined Mat when he is definitely not a loser in the books.

[@historymax5479]

I'd appreciate it if you finished reviewing eps 4-9 of Arcane. It would be nice to talk about something good for once. I loved that series.

[@mikemisitano7543]

Oz mentioned in a video that they were waiting on something to come in. Im hoping they stick to the plan of reviewing 4-6 and 7-9 separately, as they cover so much ground each.

[@ruup108]

36:10 the Last King Of Malkier was “nothing before i met you” what?! Lan Mandragoran was one of the characters that most resonated with me on my first reading in the early 90s, and learning his story and its depths was one of the most profound experiences in all of literature. and i knew Tolkien personally, he and my mother were at Oxford together and he was a family friend

[@David-bf6bz]

I picked up the Wheel of Time during Desert Storm. It was cool to follow a series that was written by a Citadel graduate and combat veteran and Nuclear Engineer. He understood rual life and how ordinary people react to extraordinary circumstances.

[@AngryDuck79]

36:49 The Dragongirls are all great, in their own way but Min is definitely best gorl. I don't think there's anything about her that I don't love.

[@lethauntic]

I wouldn't call the Halo games "christian" just because of the common themes they have. And I'm not saying that to be rude or anything. Just that not everything relates to religion just because they happen to, again, share similar themes. Maybe it came from there, maybe it was based on it, but maybe it wasn't; it's not inherent based just on that alone. It reminds me of Butch Hartman (that clown) and how he wanted to put his religion into his show in a way that wasn't overbearing (IIRC). Which is fine I guess as long as it doesn't alienate people, but the themes were along the lines of loving your family and whatnot. Again, I don't necessarily mind that kind of thing, but loving your family is a very... general thing, is it not? It's like using symbolism to tell people to drink water. It's a nice message I suppose, but you know what I mean. Sorry for the little rant, but my point is that a lot of religious themes are very general/broad. Not that it's bad, but at some point it starts to apply to everything. Well, whatever I said doesn't matter much, I agree for the most part. Sorry for your loss, Shad (being the show adaptation). It's like watching Red Letter Media talk about Star Trek Picard and watching their soul be sucked out of them.

[@carolynpearce5425]

I read the wheel of time about 15yrs ago and was super excited when they said they were doing a TV series. I watched a couple of episodes and decided to scrap the idea. Won't be watching the rest of the series, Amazon ruined everything about it.

[@dirtysink373]

I always find it funny how each of the boys thinks the other two have got "the ways with women"

[@willharper1326]

This is the video I’ve been hoping for! Great job. Listening to Shad talk about writing, and stories. Is way more entertaining than anything Amazon has done.

[@vincentthendean7713]

Teaching your pug the funny mustache man salute puts you on a no fly list but actual believers of funny mustache man in the border nation gets propped up by all MSM.

[@austinp.2259]

Oz's description of zooming out from a stain on a beautiful tapestry is a perfect description of me going into the old Star Wars EU after watching the Disney movies and shows.

[@joseonwalking8666]

Daniel Greene's endless cope about this trash show really killed my enjoyment of his content and doubt his opinions on this stuff.

[@marcel7077]

sorry to disagree with you guys, but you said, the only thing the show did ok concerning characters is Tam, but even him they diminished considerably. In the Beltine fight, in the books he killed several Trollocs because he IS A FUDGING SWORDMASTER. In the show, he did not manage to kill a SINGLE ONE... no wonder the heron marked sword is completly irrelevant so far in the series... no hope left in me for this show... but you guys continue to call them out... great work as usual... Oz even got me into the Halo universe stuff and i did not play a single game

[@dbjdi]

Imagine how much more impactful the night where the trollocks come would have been if we had seen how innocent and sweet edmonds field was. Instead we saw Mats dad being shitty, mat stealing, Perrin and his wife grumpy, and more...

[@angelchronicles9848]

Honestly the Gendered soul thing would make for a great Transgender story, but knowing the writers they'd fuck it up

[@Andthatsallfolks]

I know I've already commented but if you want an Idea for a video, how about one about adaptation.

[@ViperChief117]

Knowing what I do now about the Wheel of Time series on Amazon. I’m more than likely never going to watch this show on said streaming service. I thought it looked bad from the trailer. Guess I was right? Lol

[@Owazrim]

I made the mistake of reading the first book again before watching the show so a lot of the issues where glaringly apparent. Second mistake was continuing to watch the show. I so want it to be good. At this point I would take decent.

[@AlienPoopEvolution]

I'm glad you decided to "read" the books Oz. I wish you would do reviews with Shad as you go along. A lot of people would probably watch as listening to first time readers is almost as good as our first time.

[@ehellstrom7127]

I was thinking the same thing! I would love to see a video series of Oz and Shad discussing each book after Oz finishes it.

[@AlienPoopEvolution]

@@ehellstrom7127 has Nathan read that books? All 3 of you... Make it happen. Tomorrow.

[@therealgreyman]

may i recommend the MISTBORN series by Brandon Sanderson. BS also wrote the last 3 books of wheel of time.

[@WiseOwl_1408]

I assumed the book was as bad as the show. Clearly I need to check the books out.

[@Sb129]

They get just about every single thing wrong possible in the show. Perhaps 99.99% dead wrong and even the 0.01% is questionable. Every single change was for the worst, every single one. This adaptation was like The Last Airbender, the Percy Jackson movies or the "live action" Garfield movies. Abysmal, Amz's adaptation sinks to abominable. I think the Ways and the Waygate was the textbook example of every single thing being wrong and it being easier to be correct than not. Fking hate it. I have read though the series and also listened to it, it takes a while either way, it was like when I watched all of Stargate SG-1, SGA and SGU. Takes some time, Lolz. A consequence of reading it first is that I still pronounce some things wrong on purpose still, hehe. The "Aes" in Aes Sedai I pronounce as "Ayy" and I call the Seanchan the "Sea-chan" cuz it was funnier that way and I actually didn't notice the "n" for a little while, Lol. Interesting about their blocks on games, I like most genres, 3rd and 1st person shooters, RTS' and RPGs (Of all sorts), Multiplayer and single. "hard" games and puzzle. The only ones I can't get into as much are fighting games and rhythm games.

[@onepresence9460]

Horrible adaptations. Can't forgive them for destroying Percy Jackson and Avatar.

[@ukmediawarrior]

I can both appreciate Jordan's work and not enjoy it:) It is possible to do both. I got through the first book of Wheel of Time but it was hard going for me. Bear in mind I read Dune and Lord of the Rings and loved them at age 11, lol, so I don't have a problem with big books. But as they mention here Jordan loved to be descriptive, and for me at least he went overboard with that. I don't need to know there are puddles on the streets or mud outside the houses if you've already told me its raining hard. I don't need such a highly defined level of detail in my books and it just weighed it all down and made it very, very slow going. That all said the characters and the world he created were incredibly vibrant, it's such a shame the tv show destroyed that world and characters.

[@militarygradeducttape5072]

I agree, while I enjoyed the books they do have certain problems, the whole series could be edited down to 6 books probably, if Jordan somewhat reduced the amount of dresses descriptions, Aes Sedai ageless faces, Nyneave tugging on her braid, etc., he tends to go overboard with stuff like this. Also, once you, as a reader learn about yet another group of secretive and powerful women (Wise ones, Maidens, the Kin, Windfinders, pick your favorite) you just don't care anymore, at lest that was my reaction

[@Ashaman0gbg]

@@militarygradeducttape5072 Interresting PoV. I kinda expected there to be 'secret groups of channelers', as the world is described as a very fixed divided world. Each with their own culture, and very little interraction with other cultures. It would just have been odd if there were no channelers among the Aiel or Seafolk as they are for all humans. But myself, I never felt like I didnt care. But I can definitely see how you'd like 'oh yeah ofcourse they have their own - they all do'

[@militarygradeducttape5072]

@@Ashaman0gbg I didn't make myself clear regarding secret channeler groups, I don't mind them existing at all, it's perfectly reasonable there are many such groups in the world, what I didn't quite like was that almost all of them felt like a single person to me, despite having A LOT of named characters. Hearing that somebody is a Wise One you immediately know she's stoic and imperturbable, a Windfinder - pushy and very mindful of hierarchy, etc. A lot of times I couldn't recall who the certain character was (despite having good memory for this kind of stuff) because they seemed so interchangeable within the faction they belong to. As a counterexample I consider Aes Sedai to be a pretty diverse bunch with a lot of distinct personalities.

[@MandalorSkyrd]

Oz, Aristotle wasn't talking God because Christianity was still centuries away and I'm pretty sure he wasn't Jewish (sure, you can adapt Aristotle's philosophy to Christian doctrine but that's not how Oz put it)

[@Rhino-hn3jd]

This show sucks. That is all

[@Ellis_Hugh]

I can summarize the differences fairly easily. Books: Utter Masterpiece. Show: Utter shit. Seriously, comparing the books to the show is like comparing what a 5* meal is like going in and what it's like coming out.

[@birdlaw1019]

Direct quote from the book referencing the complexion of Egwene, "She held her cloak close, dark blue and embroidered along the edge with a thin line of white flowers in the Shienaran fashion, and the blossoms made a line straight up to her face. They were no paler than her cheeks; her eyes seemed so large and dark". The casting is wrong based on descriptions in the books, but we aren't supposed to notice.

[@katherine6326]

Not to mention Egwene is supposed to be such a knockout that she has actual princes jizzing their pants over her. If Lanfear is the perfect 10, then Egwene is a solid 9. The girl they cast is a 5.5 at her very best. Don't even get me started on the goblin that's playing Nynaeve. The race swapping is bad enough, but they had to add insult to injury by casting two female characters who are supposed to be beautiful with painfully plain actresses.

[@birdlaw1019]

@@katherine6326 Agreed, every actress in the show thus far is very plain looking (with the exception of Rosamund). It's not even like they cast super talented actresses at the expense of physical appearance. I truly don't get the reasoning behind the casting choices. Maybe Raginor spent the entire budget on wigs, and had no money left over for talent?

[@JayMoreau]

How many accents could a small backwater village have?

[@dancingdroid]

I love that you guys did this and did a more deep dive and not just focused on the current episode and how terrible that was. This here is what I felt missing from your fantastic episode rants. Cheers!

[@a-aron391]

I've been rereading the wot series due to your reviews on the wot show and man the difference is so insane. It hold so many truths about humanity and men and women and their differences and similarities. I've really been getting more and more angry about the desecration that this show is as I've been rereading the books.