John Dehlin’s Mormon Story w/ Rick Bennett of @GospelTangents | Ep. 1649

[@kerriewhite3054]

Best interview of all of your interviews♥️sooo passionate and real and vulnerable! Never been Mormon, have Mormon family and friends, actually a Born Again Christian, listening to you for years, always share your teachings and love your truth telling! Blessings John, Margi and family!

[@mormonstories]

Thanks Kerrie!

[@StillmanSpinningSteel]

I really believe this is one of your callings in this life. It's been a help for me as an active member. I like to hear things from different perspectives which helps me to think about how I view the church and the Gospel. Thanks.

[@whothinksforme]

John's mini-rant from 3:22:55 to 3:35:45 is the perfect summary of the Mormon Stories' mission and probably what almost every exmo feels that once loved the church and wants to see it do good moving forward.

[@sorandombethany6307]

I’m not a Mormon but I stumbled upon your page and find this all fascinating. I remember being a small child and the missionaries came to my door and asked me if I believed in Jesus Christ. Being the good catholic girl I was I said YES.. they gave me the Book of Mormon and were on their way.. well let me tell you my Mom read them the riot act they next time they showed up trying to take advantage of a child and 40 years later I still remember it!! Needless to say it did not leave a good impression of Mormons on me! Not Catholic anymore.. that’s a whole other story! Keep up the good work I look forward to hearing more stories!

[@marthashepherd341]

When they talk about his "tone", it amazes me. I cannot imagine John ever being "harsh"... 🙏❤

[@Seeker_Angel]

I enjoy all of your podcasts, however, this is a great example of discussion and flow of honest information on a very personal level. Thank you for your thoughtful and insightful speaking.

[@oldchandrilan4093]

Mormon Stories should have this John guy on more often

[@oldnan6137]

I have been watching your channel for over a year while I have been in a faith crisis! This by far is one of the best, most honest and enlightening episodes I have watched. It is also a flow of dialogue between two good men!!! Thank you from the bottom of my tender and healing heart! PS love John Larsen even though he swears!

[@kerstinklenovsky239]

John Dehlin, you are not a wolf in sheep's clothing. You are a friend of God in a baseball cap. ❤

[@kamilziemian995]

With some caveats, I agree.

[@michaelsmith7561]

Thanks for your openness John. I appreciate hearing the story of your life. I have recently left the LDS church and it has been a struggle for me to find answers for meaning and existence in this life. I care more about the truth than living a cozy lie.

[@MoneySavingVideos]

Start by taking a course in Evolution. Then study Astronomy. Be open to the possibility that there may not need to be a meaning in this life.

[@DavidOsborn68]

John, thanks so much for your openness and honesty in this interview. I am a life long LDS member from Australia of similar vintage to yourself. I’m a returned missionary, former bishop three times over, and fellow navigator of the so-called faith crisis. Although I prefer to think of it as uncomfortable truth alignment. I suspect the LDS leadership increasingly understand the church and its narrative desperately needs to reform. It’s just the pace of the reform that scares them, and when people are scared, they become defensive. Stay the course.

[@Cindi-From-Sunny-South-Florida]

I've been following Your channel for about 8 months (2023) since I saw you on cults to consciousness . I've learned so much from both. I am grateful to see your story ❤

[@ilovejesus7000]

Thank you for this honest and open episode John! I have learned so much from this episode-which I think is your best I’ve listened to thus far-but it was filling in more details about what I already knew, thought and felt about the LDS church, which saddens me. It’s (nearly) inevitable that people will leave it once they find out the foundational Truths discussed here. I really appreciate your thoughtful Integrity and caring humanity most of all.

[@timhansen234]

John's cred just went up by leagues in my book..

[@JustJ-Me]

3:53:30 Before John gave the answer to what causes/ leads to suicide I immediately thought "Feeling trapped or stuck". Been there, done that. I'm glad this information is being brought to light because it's important.

[@songbirdsorbet1028]

Thank you very much for this eye-opening interview of yourself. You have a down to earth way of expressing your opinions and views, and that is very appealing. I had my faith crisis during the pandemic, have prayed about my decision to leave the church, and have been confirmed that I made the right decision. The answers keep coming daily in regard to that as it is an ongoing process. Thank you for your vulnerability and honesty.

[@joanteasdale2991]

It's always production production production nothing more just numbers

[@iamjustsaying1]

Excellent! I knew John had been involved in the faith crisis/exmo communities for a long time, but this episode really fleshed out the details, including meetings with GAs, studies prepared for them, etc. And they just won't change, because there is no viable way to do so and still preserve member numbers and tithing receipts. It's a corporation, more than a church.

[@AubreyJM]

YES. I learned that the LDS Church was a business on my LDS mission. I was mortified that all they cared about was numbers and not spiritual experiences with actual people.

[@jeffk464]

I don't know what that means, any large church is a bureaucracy.

[@keithhebdon2950]

John, I also served in Guatemala. 91 to 93. Very similar experience. Today is Oct. 24. 2023. Keep up the good work.

[@doubtingdennis]

This is such a great concept for an episode!! I love hearing your story!

[@nepenthe_gal759]

I have 3 friends who are ex-Mormons, 2 were excommunicated for being gay, and personally I'm a non-believer. But, even so, I've thoroughly enjoyed listening to John's interviews and have recommended his podcast to my numerous atheist friends.

[@victoriachristian4379]

Honestly, this is one of my top 10 favorite MSP episodes.

[@LaLaJonesG]

Love hearing your story John. One of the best episodes of MSP for me!

[@JustJ-Me]

3:48:19 Thank you for bringing this up among many other important topics. I experienced this as a Never-Mo and my hairstylist experienced the same thought process as well as her & her kids experiencing rejection from The Church & its' members after going through a divorce.

[@MM-jf1me]

I enjoy Rick Bennett's Gospel Tangents; he has always come across as a kind, curious man with great integrity. I've had this video on my watch list since it came out and I've just now been able to get to it. Really appreciated this interview -- it gave great insight into John Dehlin's journey truth faith. Wish we could see Rick Bennet on Mormon Stories, but I understand and respect his wish for privacy.

[@melody7116]

Thank you so much for speaking up

[@justinbingham6898]

John you have a great story. Thanks for sharing.

[@BlueRidgeHiker_tonihoban]

Wow, John. I’ve been watching your podcast since the arrests of Franke and Hilderbrandt. I love your intelligent and thoughtful discussions and guests. I’ve binge watched many past episodes over the last several months but just stumbled across this one. I have even more respect for you than ever now. Love hearing all about your journey! Thank you!

[@paultoscano7903]

The neo-apologists are like older siblings who can’t or won’t believe their dad abuses or abused their younger siblings.

[@alcontashi]

John, I am not a Mormon but I have listened to 8 different episodes from this channel. I disagree when you say your podcast has a skewed perspective on Mormonism rather than neutral. I had to listen to this podcast episode to find out your position on the church because from those episodes I Listened to, I couldn't put my finger on it if you were still an active member or not. Thank you for continuing to shed a light on Mormon stories.

[@spencerbean8802]

Glad this got re-uploaded. I was most of the way through the episode when it disappeared.

[@personofinterest8731]

If only my family would bring themselves to watch this 😥. Thank you John and Rick. Love from South Africa 🇿🇦

[@jillschneider2953]

How did I not see this until now? I’m not Mormon but I love Gospel Tangents because the topics/history is so interesting.

[@heatherjoslin8291]

So interesting hearing John’s info and experience.

[@debbieshrubb1222]

I served in the Texas San Antonio Mission 1980 to 1981. Our mission president was Harold B Pratt who was a wonderful human being. The previous mission president however was Vaughan J Featherstone who had actively encouraged baseball baptisms and reputedly rewarded Elders with TV sets and trips across the border to Mexico if the were top baptizers. Part of the work of senior missionaries in our mission was visiting these baseball baptisms and asking if they wanted their names removed from the records I was a convert and this was one of the first experiences in realising that church leaders like the charismatic Featherstone were deeply flawed As for Dallin Oaks: I think he was lying about these sort of pressurised missionary techniques. It was obviously such a pervasive practice with so many similarities that these mission presidents must have received instruction and endorsement of the practice.

[@ClassicGuitarRockJFL]

When I served in 87-89 in Seattle, we had a checklist that we followed that required that investigators complete all six discussions and attend church at least once before they could be baptized.

[@knan75]

I surely did enjoy this podcast. Thanks.

[@evanhill9890]

WOW! Mirror of my mission story. Curitiba Brazil, 1988-1990. I think we are 2 days apart by birth (8/22/1969). I took it harder. I think my dad got Boyd K. Packer involved when I tattled on our miracle baptisms. My dad was Dean of the Marriott School at BYU, and both Rex Lee and Bateman were in my family ward when I was a kid. I lost my faith during my mission, but remained active PIMO through BYU, Temple marriage, Harvard Business School. I stopped and went public with my atheism in 2009. I went to grad school with sons of Richard Bushman, Mitt Romney and Henry Eyring. Interesting hearing your story. Lots of overlap. You did Bain, I did BCG.

[@mormonstories]

@evanhill9890 - Email me! [e-mail]

[@arrahslichenmyer4986]

Thank you for all of your hard work. We needed to hear the truth

[@felipemorgan44]

I e been watching for years. Best info about john ever loved it

[@MrWhistleFire]

Such good coversation! Amazing how John conducts himself. If it was me, i feel i would be pretty sour...He is a little sour i guess, however, he conrols his anger very well and shows a ton of respect for Rick. Rick also seems like an absolute stand-up guy as well! Great video qualty and sound too.

[@44dton]

really enjoyed this one john.

[@dorothyd7929]

John. .YOU ROCK!

[@paultoscano7903]

The apostles think that what they say in private is to stay private because they are not allowed to contradict a senior apostle.

[@johnhorner1969]

They care more about their reputation than they do helping people or being actual followers of Jesus. The Jesus described in the New Testament, who I don’t think existed btw, would be disgusted by them. He would throw them out of the temple like the money changers they are. They are grossly perverted in their god complex and don’t do shit to help anybody.

[@blarsen8]

I like Rick, this was a great interview.

[@ZeBeFruity]

I loved the spirit of this. John, did you say you feel the church may do more good than harm? I'd love to hear more. In my mind it harms POC, LGBTQ, women, young girls and young boys. That doesn't leave much.

[@paultoscano7903]

I’ve openly criticized LDS leaders for 40 years.

[@dianethulin1700]

Thanks for that Paul. I stopped going in 1981

[@JustJ-Me]

Even if you went unheard, thank you for at least voicing your concerns. I'm sorry your concerns seemed to not be taken seriously enough. 🕊🤍 From a Never-Mo

[@melody7116]

I thank you for dialogue I feel that when people break out and change from such tight constrictions, it takes some time to find some kind of boundaries; one is falling, falling, trying to navigate,often with no support I appreciate you giving a voice to this and your support for these people Jesus would’ve befriended in our stories Thank you

[@melody7116]

Thank you for your bravery I don’t know lots of these names, but have had many of the experiences you mention, couldn’t do it, yet beloved family in it I have known death with this and family destruction You are voicing what I’m not allowed to speak about I’ve got a long Mormon story, as lots do, and I completely agree with the ethics of Jesus, although not religious I appreciate your compassion and bravery Having someone speak out and stand up is so comforting The ability to examine and apologize is admirable I would hope I could be the same

[@harryfve5]

Always good to be here.

[@StephRivera]

How are the missionaries any different from sales teams that go out and try to get as many sales as possible? And get incentives and notoriety when they have high numbers? It's pretty much the same as far as I'm understanding.

[@kentthalman4459]

A simply fascinating interview of JD. So glad he provided it.

[@JustJ-Me]

John I appreciate your transparency and authenticity. Am I crazy for remembering you being on TV, possibly ch7? I believe that's where/ when I first came across you. The Mormon Curtain (for Questioning/ Ex-Mormons) was a great site and I'm glad it's been archived. I bring this up because of you discussing sites that have brought information that challenges the teachings. I also believe the double-speak and the silence from the church has been very problematic and telling of their integrity.

[@mormonstories]

Was it this @J-Me? kzbin.info/www/bejne/j4KZqYGIZ8iKkJY

[@AubreyJM]

FASCINATING! WHOA.

[@paultoscano7903]

The apostles avoid public connections with doubters for fear of being thought to endorse their doubts.

[@JustJ-Me]

Absolutely

[@McBelles]

In early 1980’s while visiting my parents I received a phone call from a man who identified himself as a records keeper from Church headquarters. He started asking me address, phone number and current ward information. I was stunned and asked was this common practice to follow members of the church. He was guarded and hesitant to answer my questions about who he was and what he was doing. We struggled back and forth. At the end I emphasized that he was never to call me again. One of the first times I steadfastly pushed back against uncomfortable questions from an older man in authority with the church. For months after I felt watched, followed and quite frankly scared. It frightened me the church engaged in such policy.

[@Hallahanify]

Someone called you and then asked you your phone number?

[@McBelles]

@@Hallahanify they wanted all my info. Where I was living, my number, was I going to church etc. it scared me and creeped me out.

[@McBelles]

@@Hallahanify you realize they called me at my parents house which is where my last known records were that the church had access to.

[@allenandersen376]

I enjoyed your thoughts. Agreed with stopped the harm. You're more than correct than you possibly know.

[@sharonhamm2110]

The truth is that if you are supporting a faith base that is discriminatory you are hypocritical. Love is love and your church should support the principle of love if they are going to proclaim that they are loving.

[@donnaroberts4751]

I’m not Mormon, but I see a lot of similarities to my experience as a Christian and living in a world were folks struggles with an erroneous perception of self vs. people who simply look and respond to their faith differently

[@melody7116]

Right on man

[@joewhip9303]

John, I find your story fascinating. I was born and raised as a Roman Catholic and lost all faith as a teenager when I realized it is all based on lies and myth. I have a fulfilling life with family and socially without faith. I just can’t choose to live my life grounded in lies. But that is just me. All the best to you are your family and friends.

[@AubreyJM]

WOW. How is Dr. Dehlin not an angry, bitter person??? I would be.

[@beboystyle620]

Ok, John, that was kinda cool about Rene!

[@rebeccaranger1566]

After listening to this podcast, a funny thought popped into my mind, I pictured the "Humpty Dumpty" Fable. LOL

[@sharonhamm2110]

If you had an opportunity to embrace the community that you wished to become, change is inevitable. It is courageous to become who you want your church to become. Social justice and equality efforts need leaders and when the work is done, people will gravitate to a group of like-minded people. Those in your church will see your work and will demand that change within the church. All things are possible with genuine love for all people.

[@heathermcdougall8023]

They've changed the "unchanging and unchangeable" temple ritual at least 3 times. They've changed temple garments from what they were originally, quite a few times. They've even changed the Sabbath Day attendance schedule. It was always a few hour so Sunday School in the morning after a brief meeting a a hymn. Then you came back int e early afternoon for a marathon Sacrament meeting, with 4 hymns and 3 talks. It went on and on and on. They changed it to one big meeting, severely shortened, due to poor attendance at Sacrament meeting worldwide, as morning Sunday Scholl was by far the more popular meeting. The rhetoric of the old hardline prophets like O-mckay and kimball are a thing of the past.

[@JeffNealsPlace]

John, I’m pretty sure we were in the Tempe Mission at the same time. I was a Visa waiter there during Christmas of 1991 and Winter of 92. I had this terrible trunkie companion, Darringer… good times! I saw some fringe military LDS running for President there too that year. Grimes?.. can’t remember the guys name. Crazy! I actually really liked Tempe and we had some good success. Bo Gritz, I just remembered.

[@Hallahanify]

Whats a trunkie?

[@enchantinglysimple]

This is very interesting.

[@paultoscano7903]

The apostles list of the problems of the church are not John’s list. The apostles’ list is members’ disobedience, members’s criticism of leaders, members’ questioning the leaders, members’ broadcasting their doubts. John should have known this after the excommunication of the September Six.

[@AndrielleHillis]

I LOVED hearing about the tech stuff. I, myself, am a freelance web developer!

[@boysrus61]

Didn't this premier yesterday?

[@marymarine4979]

That's what I thought? I watched most of it last night and came back to finish watching the rest of the video???

[@mindMyBlues]

yes. I made it through half of it, and this morning couldn't find it anymore to finish it. I hope it's a reupload with nothing edited ...

[@britta7436]

I was mid-watching it and it went away! Glad it was reuploaded!

[@EMSmith480]

Weird glitch Ps. I rewatched it thinking I missed something

[@mormonstories]

@Co Co Bee - We are not sure why the video disappeared. We think that maybe KZbin removed it for copyright violations (since Rick also shared it), but we're not totally sure.

[@darcy2965]

Exceptional. I'm not LDS or ex - i was an almost. When missionaries said i wouldn't be accepted and approved of if i became pregnant by artificial insemination as single woman, wow i knew it wasn't a place for a modern progressive successful independent woman. And i was looking for a real supportive Christian church and community. And after listening here for weeks, i know i would have lasted about 32 minutes!!!. Thank you for this.....

[@virahpayam]

"When I interview with you, it feels like I'm being stung by bees." 😂😂😂 I hope someone says that about me someday 🤓📚

[@mimsezer]

Gosh this comment is a year old but I have to do it whether anyone ever sees it. Renee Z. being bullied by the church ladies at the state dance about the depth of her neckline makes me so furious I can hardly type. Let's wait to see who Jesus is more pleased by in the end. Love and grace to Renee's precious teenage heart.❤

[@Marxnchill]

John is the man

[@paultoscano7903]

I agree with John’s concerns about the leadership. But when he interviewed me in 2007, John resisted my criticism of the leaders.

[@JustJ-Me]

It's unfortunate that it happened that way. I hope you can understand that he's been conflicted and confused himself and it's been a long journey to get to where he is now. I imagine the politics with the church are ridiculous and have tough barriers to break. I'm sorry you didn't feel heard well enough before.

[@Mon-Alisa]

1:26:45 Seems to explain why that might have been. I’m sure it was a frustrating experience, though.

[@jimbosnoberger9420]

I liked it better when I knew nothing about church history. Now my life is in turmoil.

[@melissagarcia8169]

That’s how I felt the first two years but it gets better. Getting kind and genuine friends outside the church, having better and more understanding conversations with family, and acceptance what life is now which is letting go of the dream I built up for myself being in the church . It’s like a fresh new start

[@johnhorner1969]

It’ll get better. Just give it time. What you will realize is that whereas previously all your morality was leased to the church and these evil jackass clowns with a god complex called apostles. Now you get to own your morality and determine for you what is good, what is bad, and how you should live your life and what makes you happy. Leaving the church is the most empowering thing you’ll ever do but it takes time to find yourself. If you need to talk lmk. Always happy to lend support. I’ve been there. And still am.

[@Newvisionbohemianinstitute]

maybe the difference with holland was the responsibility and mantle that made him aware of the impact of timing on people's life plans and sovereignty in that context

[@Hallahanify]

I wish this interview wasnt done by an active mormon. I wish john was challenged to explain more why john thinks the church is a good influence. Id like to understand that more. I dont understsnd why he was so eager to stay in before he was excommunicated.

[@Lfenmore74]

This is my first exposure to Rick.. I don't care for him. I am a people reader and I read a rude undertone, I am not impressed. I do love your insight as always John.❤

[@brucek2946]

Liberals are NOT the only Liahona Mormons. I am NOT a Liberal. I have one hand on the Iron Rod and one hand on the Liahona. Liberal Thinking is not the only Outside the Orthodox Box "sheep follower" mindset that you express. I Still Firmly have a Testimony and I still allow my mind to think and seek answers through the practice of Faith. Who we are as a Church and What the TRUE Doctrines of God are, have to exist with certain levels of independence because We the members are Full of Imperfections including the "Brethren". We Hold to the Rod with the Fullest Intentions of continuing to Add Perfection to the Church. I cannot deny the pain that I feel as a member when we, as a Church, have imperfections surface that legitimately need to be addressed. I am not willing to abandon my testimony of the Doctrines just because I cant be the one who thinks I know how to fix problems for the Church but the Church refuses to listen to me because I am a Nothing and Nobody on any Leadership Level for the Church. I have No Resume. I have NO PhD. My voice will never be heard or recorded in the Church History. I can only contribute to what is in my Very Small Sphere of Existence and hope that the Leaders who they choose are able to find answers.

[@hollayevladimiroff131]

Ephesian 4:11 And have no fellowship with unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. I did it for God, no way I could stay in a church who does not believe in the biblical God.

[@joanteasdale2991]

I would have left the church right then and there being punished like that for telling the truth about the Insidious ways that they were baptizing people but if you were to believer at the time but you were you stuck it out I could not have because that's hypocrisy

[@TVs_Brent]

i'm not a mormon, never have been. i've never even been baptized in ANY religion nor will i ever be. i come to mormon stories purely from a place of curiosity about a way of life i simply do not understand. but if members of the church are concerned about john being a wolf in sheep's clothing, ask yourself who is showing you the factual history with documentation, proof and records? and who is keeping it from you? once you can answer that simple question, you'll become much better at spotting the wolves

[@theresewheeler1498]

It is very dishonest . Really really abusing these natives . How dare these missionaries not obeying the rules and the mission President is worse . They took advantage of these poor people . Thank you for sharing the truth of your mission .

[@EMSmith480]

Was I just out of the loop when I was a member? I didn't know any of those names

[@douglasemsantos]

3:31:21 this is hard. It seems like some people just can't handle truth very well, but I don't think that living a "happier" life of ignorance would be better than knowing the truth.

[@mwest3191]

John Dehlin…’He is, the most interesting man in the world.’ Stay thirsty, my friends. 👏

[@mormonstories]

Not even close.

[@tuckerallen1421]

Holy shit it's crazy to hear someone else say "flecha" as slang for an obedient missionary. I thought it was a local thing. We also called disobedient missionaries "macaneros".

[@LaLaJonesG]

Pay Lay Ail isn’t your fault John!!!!🤣 In all seriousness, none of Mormonism’s faults are YOUR fault!! Thank you for this raw and open interview. Your transparency is appreciated!

[@CalmPupsandNatureSounds]

Rick is a good interviewer.

[@cajuncraftysue]

Great interview but for a never Mormon, I’m not really sure what some of the terms are. What was Sept 6th? The woman that was excommunicated at the same time you were, John. Thanks!

[@paultoscano7903]

Marlin Jensen is a tragic figure-a victim of the apostles’ belief that no one can teach them anything, which is why they are so horribly ignorant.

[@paultoscano7903]

The various rescues appear to be failures: Swedish, Boise, British. Were there others?

[@jenfnp]

Being trapped. So profound and likely a great truth.

[@LaLaJonesG]

I’m surprised to hear you say John that the neoapologists are honest because they don’t sound honest

[@matthewmitchell68]

This is an awesome podcast, both being respectful to each other’s beliefs. Even if the gospel is true I just wouldn’t go back because of how much I don’t like church culture/structure (No Female Bishops, no open bands playing, highly regimented structure) Nope it just time to go to the church next store.

[@heathermcdougall8023]

Thier behaviour tells you it's not true. Thier silly extra "scriptures" are nonsense, and anyone who tells you to read the BOM instead of the Bible , what do you really think of that?

[@LaLaJonesG]

I’m curious. Is Rick an active Mormon?

[@mormonstories]

Yes

[@LaLaJonesG]

Thanks!

[@ryandickinson2905]

I'm surprised you couldn't tell - I felt that his viewpoint was made very clear by the way he was interviewing John. It felt like he was dying to have a gotcha moment. :/

[@LaLaJonesG]

@@mormonstories thank you!! Wow!

[@LaLaJonesG]

@@ryandickinson2905 I sometimes don’t catch onto interpersonal interactions as quickly as others do. Just one of my jewel facets!

[@sdfotodude]

Yeah, what happened?

[@MsCaterific]

That's what I want to know!

[@mormonstories]

@@MsCaterific and @Richard Pecjak - We are not sure why the video disappeared. We think that maybe KZbin removed it for copyright violations (since Rick also shared it), but we're not totally sure.

[@t-pain3343]

Is Rick Jim Bennets brother?

[@mormonstories]

No

[@JustJ-Me]

Thank you for sharing your experience, John. Although I've never been LDS/ Mormon, you help me feel validated in many ways. I've felt unheard for many years regarding my concerns with "The Church". 🕊🤍

[@randinboise]

Lost captioning

[@randinboise]

Thank you for fixing!

[@cristinataylor400]

My father was a polygamist and I became an unbeliever at age 10 and questioned him and I feel like ever since then I was spiritually persecuted all my life and your stories that you've had on are weak compared to my stories! I grew up in Guatemala by the way and my Dad tried to be a polygamist and put us through pure sheer hell! And I don't blame him, because I think he's a victim as well! being a progressive Mormon is a huge load of b*******!