Mormon Temple Worker Loses Faith - Michelle Clyde | Ep. 1949

[@ConnyWithA_Y]

"A religion is failing if it divides families" Well said John, thank you

[@raddiemutto7934]

Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter in law against her mother in law. And a persons enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

[@tonelove666]

@@raddiemutto7934Even if they were real, I would vote for love and not for worshipping a hate monger.

[@harlanlang6556]

@@raddiemutto7934 This quote also supports the idea that Jesus is not the Prince of Peace.

[@sandaroocompilations5182]

I loved that comment too!

[@bobicusrex]

​@@raddiemutto7934more than being the key statement. You can love God more and still love your family 😊

[@ftgjt21]

"I don't need eternity, I need now" is so profound and beautiful

[@monus782]

As a non-Mormon I was part of a high demand church that had its members obsess with going to heaven at any cost at the expense of this life (since they believed they were merely passing through to something better), I don’t know if that counts to basically looking forward to dying but it already started bothering me when I was on my way out so I wonder how obsessed with the afterlife Mormons are.

[@wnnfrhrw4452]

There only is One Tense: viz, The Eternal Now/Present. Htptiwny [viz, May Peace & Blessings be unto You All]

[@aircastlearchitect]

I keep thinking "this is my favorite MS podcast episode" and then a new one comes along and I think "oh, wow THIS is my favorite..." Keep them coming, MS team. So inspiring to see these courageous people come on and tell their stories.

[@nicolerichman595]

SAME!!!

[@aceshigh5157]

yes, there are so many wonderful and insightful stories here.

[@raeyourfriend1829]

This is the first video I’ve been able to watch thoroughly, and I absolutely loved it. As a deaf person, it’s often hard for me to sit and watch entire videos because I can’t just listen while doing other things-I rely entirely on my eyes. But this was so relatable and worth every moment. Thank you, Michelle! Hearing someone close to my age, who has felt many of the same things I’ve felt throughout my years in the church, means so much to me. I really appreciate your perspective

[@christinhickman3970]

Awww I love you Michelle! ❤️ from training you on your mission, to seeing you now leave and pave your own path, you are amazing for the journey you’ve been through. Thank you for being one of the first Mormon friends I told I had a girlfriend. You have always been so supportive and loving.

[@michelleclydeart]

LOVE YOU!!!

[@ChrisFBartlett]

Thank you for sharing your experience, Michelle. I love the part about being present. We spend so much time enduring until the “next life” that we miss so many wonderful experiences and relationships in this one.

[@reedmilliner541]

I love your reply. Thank you for sharing.

[@JC-vq2cs]

What a wise young woman, so impressed. "I don't need eternity, I just need now" brought me to tears. It is exactly how I feel too, have always felt this way, afterlives never made sense to me. But still, in my 6th decade of life as a NeverMo in Moridor, I had not articulated it that clearly. It is my new mantra. Happy belated bday Michelle, you gave us all a gift on your own special day. Best wishes into your 2nd quarter of life.

[@shanepratt3568]

I can't count how many of these I have watched and I still find each one fascinating. It is compelling to see which of the many issues will trigger each member.

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

I feel the same!

[@charlesmendeley9823]

When you watch many episodes, you see these patterns emerging. For some, it's moral issues, which makes them think that the church is taking wrong moral standpoints (LGBT issues, gender equality, racism, etc.) others stumble over cracks in the historical narrative.

[@debinindiana]

I grew up as a Baptist preacher’s kid, not a Mormon, yet I still relate to this interview. It’s so hard to tell your family that you’re not “all in” with how you were raised to believe. Very interesting interview! Thank you!

[@harlanlang6556]

My mother was raised as a Baptist in Arkansas, but when we moved to California, she never went back to church. I think that the Baptists also have their surveillance state culture where everyone watches everyone else to see that they're not "sinning", and dancing was a sin for them, and my mother loved to dance.

[@TheRudydog1]

I admire her courage to undergo this interview especially when it will be watched by people who know her. I did the same thing when I lost my faith in Christianity many years ago. I grew up in Utah as a NonMormon and found both Christian and Mormon beliefs to be equally unbelievable. Both sides trying to prove each other wrong and in doing so moving farther apart.

[@rozannmoake8146]

Totally off-topic… Margie, you probably will never see this, but I just wanted to say that your skin looks so beautiful! I just feel like you’re glowing! I want to know your skincare routine. 😊

[@marriatells]

It is true! Margi is indeed stunning

[@harlanlang6556]

I think it's that new "Free from Mo" skin care!

[@TheTfroggy912]

Margi is my favorite KZbin person. If I ever see John, I’m immediately asking if she is there too.

[@easydoesit62]

What?? A beautiful, smart woman who can speak and think for herself? How refreshing. Love this interview. My hope for a new generation of young women is renewed.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

This is half of the LDS Youth. Half of them are leaving.

[@BG-ig6fd]

I really enjoyed getting to know Michelle. This was a happy interview. She is authentic, compassionate, feminist, an artist and a more liberal mind….all things that resonate with me. I am old enough to be her parent, but I really appreciate these wise millennials that MS interviews.

[@FrenchyStitchy]

This is by far, one of the best, most authentic and real podcasts you've done. Well Done.

[@mormonstories]

@FrenchyStitchy - Maybe it’s your turn!!!

[@OuttaMyMind911]

3:31:41 Isn’t it a little convenient that people only mention stuff like this (“I’ve noticed the light in your eyes has gone dim”), AFTER you tell them your issue with the church?! Sorry to break it to them, but they don’t actually have magical discernment powers.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

When you see Mike Norton filming inside temples over a dozen times, you know that spiritual discernment is a truckload of BS.

[@richharkness5942]

So funny I started going to the Catholic Church and they talk more about Jesus Christ and God then the Mormon cult does. I'm going because my wife and I are getting married in Peru in the cathedral in downtown Lima Peru and it is such a beautiful building all can enter and listen about God and Jesus Christ. Without paying a 10% membership fee.

[@TheWanderingHeretic]

This was such a wholesome, inspiring episode of Mormon Stories! Michelle comes off as a creative, lovely, kind-hearted person who enacts genuine solidarity with oppressed and poor peoples. She and her husband sound like such a great couple; I love how they have each other's backs.

[@abbiegclark]

Her comment about the villains in stories always being the ones who are seeking eternal life just made my jaw drop! What an amazing observation. Loved this episode so much, so much of Michelle’s story felt so similar to my experience 🩵

[@ChrisFBartlett]

@@abbiegclark Same here!! I never noticed that before, but now I see it…

[@c0urtn3yTaY]

Hello Mormon Stories, I wanted to take a moment to deeply thank you all for what you do. I recently started watching these videos, and it has been deeply healing for me. I grew up in the church living in Provo, UT. I started having doubts about the church when I was 13 years old. I remember my young woman's leader telling me to read the Book of Mormon all the way through and that I would know the church is true because the Holy Ghost would make himself known to me. I read that stupid book 3 times, front to back, at 13. I didn't just want faith, I wanted to KNOW. I wanted to feel something. I prayed and prayed, a very emotional experience, but I never got any sign. Not even a warm feeling or a still small voice. It was then I started researching the church online and found the video of the person who entered the temple with a hidden camera in SLC. I felt so confused and angry, especially as a woman who did not want to sit back and let her husband rule her life. I'm 26 now and have been so much happier learning about the world in my own way and living without limitations. These videos have healed years of feeling lost and alone on my journey out of the church. It is so easy to become brainwashed when you have grown up in this religion, and I hope every member will find the truth eventually. It is heartbreaking and hard when you first start on your journey to leave, but it will all be worth it in the end.

[@blainefreestone9561]

I agree with John that this one was surprisingly an iconic interview. I’m so impressed with Michelle’s maturity and poise. She is wise beyond her years and really inspires reflexion, personal growth and care. Really learned a lot and I enjoyed this interview. I’m in a similar situation as Michelle. I love my parents but we just don’t talk about my leaving the church. We have a tremendous amount of mutual respect but I guess they just aren’t ready to have that conversation.

[@whitajeman]

I'm your sister in my family. Never endowed. No temple marriage. My son has never been on record and it's been said to me "well it was easy for you to leave bc you were never really in" I'm glad more people your age are telling their stories bc it was in fact easy for me to leave and I have seen how hard it has been on some of my siblings.

[@bapanana1]

Thank you @michelleclyde we appreciate your candid, open, affirming story! I am so happy that you've embraced your inner voicecand discerned the truth about Mormonism and what a blessing to be making these transitions together with your husband early in your marriage and before any children decisions. Unlike us who did not have our "awakening" until nearly 60 years down the road - an entire life of servitude, sacrifice and submission to a false cause. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and being a bright light. You give us hope to see that the church is losing its iron grip of Indoctrination and control on its members, esp. the younger aged! We dont want anyone to have to walk the road of constant guilt/shame and loss of self that we did.

[@jewelgazer]

What a vibrant, dynamic young woman! She was so interesting and fun to listen to!

[@babybunny420]

my goodness i LOVE when margi joins. she adds such insight!!!

[@janar734]

Love Nemo so much and my heart breaks for him 💔 Wishing you nothing but goodness in your future, Nemo 🥰

[@Sugarcookieloves]

was he officially excommunicated??

[@amymac41890]

@@Sugarcookielovesyes

[@jamiehugh1212]

I was born and raised in the church. I’m now 41 years old. I had the beginning of my faith journey start in the celestial room at the temple. That led me to looking up free masonry and after learning that, I took my garments off October 2023 and was starting to pull away from the church mentally and emotionally but got asked to be in a new calling and felt obligated. Needless to say… I was the primary secretary in my ward earlier this year and then decided I couldn’t do it anymore and officially left the church in July. I also love singing so we joined a non denominational Christian church and I’m now on the worship team and get to sing on stage with an amazing new community. I feel very grateful to be where I am now. And that my kids get to be raised different than I was.

[@lisagrace6471]

I love this for you! Similar feelings, journey, and age as well.

[@jamiehugh1212]

@@lisagrace6471I’m glad to know we are on this path at the same time! I’m proud of you!

[@melissar2943]

Im 37 and left last October too. Hasn't it been such a strange year? Good luck!

[@jamiehugh1212]

@@melissar2943it has. Bitter sweet, but I’m happy to know others are on the same journey.

[@jamiehugh1212]

@@melissar2943 thank you!! Good luck to you too! I’m glad we are in this together

[@kristenlee337]

I know of a general authority who rents a vacation house for a month in Europe every year. Meanwhile the church tells people to pay their tithing before they pay their bills... and some people go hungry.

[@tysonh424]

Name?

[@kirstieanderson9399]

The church is basically an MLM

[@richharkness5942]

I knew apostle Ballard my great aunt was his secretary and my best friend married one of his granddaughters. But they invited my great aunt and he paid for her vacations every year since she was 50 and single. But they went on a lot of vacations all over the world.

[@Ennbra]

As a 28 yr old, this was SO RELATABLE, down to the temple prayer circle, marriage, etc. loved loved this one

[@LinnieSpor]

OMG! I wish I would’ve been her age when I found out that all the things I had learned were a lie! Here I am 61 years old and it has taken me almost 2 years since I resigned. I still have triggers. I’m sure I always will. I just have a hard time believing that this church radicalized my thought process like it did. This has been a really good episode. I hope more people her age watch it and take it to heart. The longer you wait the harder it is to realize you have, been brainwashed/radicalized.

[@LinnieSpor]

I want to add a note that I was also in the Young women’s presidency and release society presidency. We would go to the temple weekly. The religion just didn’t seem right but living in Utah, there was only one family that was not LDS. And in the first neighborhood that we lived in when we first were married, there was only one family in the block that was not LDS. It was just what we did

[@LinnieSpor]

P

[@LinnieSpor]

I was also in all the Callings that women could hold. I was put in the women’s when I was young. I remember telling my young women’s class that I was teaching that the movie footloose was really funny. I was called into the bishops office and the bishop scolded me for telling that I should not have told my young women’s group that this movie was fun or even funny. He said the movie was completely unappropriate and no LDS person should watch it. I remember just crying. Poor woman that you have on today is going to have many eye-opening experiences as she learns that just about everything she was taught was and is a lie.

[@LinnieSpor]

I was also in all the Callings that women could hold. I was put in the women’s when I was young. I remember telling my young women’s class that I was teaching that the movie footloose was really funny. I was called into the bishops office and the bishop scolded me for telling that I should not have told my young women’s group that this movie was fun or even funny. He said the movie was completely unappropriate and no LDS person should watch it. I remember just crying. Poor woman that you have on today is going to have many eye-opening experiences as she learns that just about everything she was taught was and is a lie.

[@greg6924]

I am a simple fella. I see a new Mormon Stories video and I hit the like button.

[@Abbasgirl312]

Hahaha, I do the same. I like before viewing bc there's no bad MS, ever.

[@felixhunterton2359]

I must say this is one of the most interesting, relevant and valuable stories I’ve ever seen and heard. Thank you so much John, Michelle and Margie et al.

[@amyjo1301]

3:56:12 I feel this so deeply. After nearly 50 years in the church I'm trying to be present and okay living in the moment. Thank you for your story!

[@emilysnow6757]

Yes. That was a powerful moment in the interview.

[@shanepratt3568]

In regard to the temple workers not wanting attendees to go to the Celestial Room---I find that if something is enjoyable, no matter what it is, that is exactly what the church DOES NOT want you to do. The church is consistently asking you to push back joy or any natural feelings. It is as if anything mortal is wrong....but we are mortals!

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

💯

[@natalie9488]

Exmormon here. When Glee was popular my parents had promised to gift me a ukulele as a reward for getting straight As, under one condition: that I stop watching Glee. I did in fact stop watching, but I still left the church and ended up watching tons of pirated R rated movies on my laptop. The Glee hysteria was so silly.

[@sarahbaz12]

Interesting! I used to watch Glee with my Mormon mom. But our family is full of musicians/fine arts so we’ve always been more on the liberal side. I came from a rare liberal Mormon family

[@martegulbrandsen1308]

What a bright young woman! I hope her family will see she has a great future, even if she leaves the church for good! Good for here! ❤She is so smart, a good thinker, having such healthy thoughts around the LDS church teachings. Be proud of yourself young lady💪💪 And if you are her mom, or dad, be so so proud you raised her to be so well, so she isn't afraid to use her voice, to tell the world what she means, and she is clever enough to listen to her intuition, cos she is spot on! Go girl! Fly high! Life will be better and better now, when you break free! Take care of the husband you got though ,he seems to be a good one♥️🙌 Love from Marte over in Norway 🇧🇻 🎉❤

[@BG-ig6fd]

“Change is the norm more than staying the same is the norm.” - Margie Yes, this! Love the drops of wisdom from both John and Margie. But Margie isn’t always on, so it’s a treat when she is.

[@Triathletforlife]

I loved listening to Michelle. She has such a beautiful personality. I can relate to all of her concerns. Thank you for sharing your story.

[@lindseycardon1917]

I’ve been following Michelle since 2014! This is wild

[@kindseyhansen94]

This is definitely one of my favorites! What a healthy example of deconstructing your faith. I love what she said about doing what is going to serve yourself and her thoughts on living based on fear. I would love to see her more! ❤❤

[@jlarchigirl]

I connected to this episode so incredibly much. Many of the same feelings going through it in a similar timeline. I wasnt a temple worker but I was a temple architect. Michelle thank you for being brave enough to do this.

[@alcontashi]

FYI I've been a Mormon stories subscriber for 2-3 years but haven't watched for a couple months due to getting busy with life but I came across the short to this video with Michelle's journal entry about the temple and just had to watch while mopping my house 😊. Loved hearing her story ❤.

[@iamjustsaying1]

Excellent episode. There were so many important points that were made: Transactional relationship with God, perfectionism, scrupulosity, racism, sexism, bigotry, obedience, judging others and being judged, lack of discernment by leaders, etc. Although the historicity isn't what took her out, it certainly was huge for me. I'm now in the latter ages of mortality and wasted my life living a lie, in a cult. The history matters greatly, and people deserve to know the facts.

[@marissayost7189]

Thanks so much for your vulnerability Michelle!!

[@sunnydaymakeup]

That medicine cabinet story is SO common! My house growing up, my grandma's house both had that happen. My high school English teacher was arrested for breaking into another teachers house that had just had surgery.

[@sohu86x]

Congratulations to this woman for finally grasping the most important thing - what we have, experience, share here and now. Because when we are dead, we are gone forever. We will never have life again.

[@rebekahjohnson1253]

Michelle, you are so smart, beautiful and articulate. I’m so sorry you were body shamed as a model. That’s so sick and wrong! 5’10” and 120 is not healthy at all! I wish you all the best in your future! The world needs women like you.

[@amberlinton7919]

This episode was so beautiful! She has so much wisdom and evidences the teachings of Eastern cultures so well . Thank you Michelle! I have had the same path with Daoism, Qi gong, Buddhism offering me more spiritually then the teachings and scripture study I left.

[@MAJdrdtucker]

1:21- talking about panic attacks for missionaries- I worked as a behavioral med tech at the local hospital in Provo back in the '90s- as a returned missionary myself- and we dealt with a number of schizophrenia cases among missionaries- there is a diathesis-stress model for schizophrenia that suggests an underlying genetic vulnerability interacting with some high stress experience, very often in the age range of late teens to early 30s- a mission.... there's the stress.

[@mormonstories]

My experience validates this too.

[@davidpayne1610]

I love to see when people have FAR better morals than their church and their "religion". That was a MASSIVE issue I continually ran up against. Not anymore!

[@Cocoon68]

And the close mindedness of one way of thinking just keeps you from truly loving others

[@tinyhomestead6023]

Good message John! Religion is failing if it separates families. I will continue to remind myself of this truth.

[@ristopherobbins]

“I needed to be a member to survive” Grew up in Utah as a “non member” and I will advocate that it is difficult and can be horrible

[@valerienelson3296]

I dont meed eternity I just need now. ❤ Amazong words, amazing story. I would be so proud to be your parents or your inlaws. I love how your takung things at your pace, your heart of giving. You seemed to get in life just what you needed at the time you needed it. I know this isnt true for all but being Morman seemed to be a foundation for building a great rest of your life.❤ Loved this one!

[@Costrada1]

This is live therapy sessions for people in all religions❤ you’re not a religion Or it’s attachments you’re piece of life so live it😊

[@DeKorteJay]

Extraordinary episode, thank you for the investment. What a light. As a nvrmrmn dealing with my own family cultish unraveling, hearing the way she talked about her perspective towards her parents was healing.

[@SarahBoyden]

Interesting you journaled about your true feelings for posterity. I never wrote about it but I was so upset I couldn’t contain myself in the session & burst out sobbing & the SLC temple matron had to come try to comfort me. In front of huge packed session where they even had to bring extra chairs in to accommodate so many patrons. So embarrassing! Yes the solution was same as you- go more frequently haha. My 4 time mission pres/temple pres/ MTC pres in laws said it must be because of “the live actors” & made me immediately go to a bunch MORE sessions with them at the bountiful temple where there was video, not live. The live actors were NOT the problem. In laws just decided what my issues were & NEVER asked me what was upsetting me. I cried every single night afterwards for weeks. My mom, family, no one was like maybe this isn’t right for you. They all just watched me cry & continued to push it on me sadly!😪

[@bettycrocking]

I loved accepting calling after I lost my faith. I didn't care about people's obedience, I only cared about friendship. I enjoyed ministering with the only goal being friendship I know this isn't everyone's experience but I loved it.

[@mayflowergal6794]

Omg! This a great one today. She said so many cool things! I'll have to go back and relisten. Also I lived in Taiwan too as a child. So that was amazing to hear her speak such good Mandarin! I wish there was a MS for Exvangelicals! You've helped me so much!

[@TEAM__POSEID0N]

It's so interesting to hear Michelle's description (from her journal) regarding her true reaction to going through the temple for the first time. And she's definitely not alone in having that reaction. And this is a natural "WTF?" reaction to what I call the "light beer" version of the temple experience...namely, the post 1989 version that has omitted the even more culty/shocking elements that existed prior to 1990. Just imagine how much more bizarre, culty and shocking it was for those going through the high-octane "classic" version that included the pantomiming of grisly forms of execution that you would be willing to submit to as a "penalty" for revealing the secrets of the temple. IIRC, the f i v e p o ints of fellowship thing is also omitted from the light-beer modern temple experience. That was when both men and women had to essentially hug a mystery man behind the veil...and it was a very intimate hug.

[@mormonstories]

Amen

[@lisagrace6471]

dude, I have never heard of the 5 points of fellowship hug? How is this possible? How do I keep hearing MORE? my goodness!! Also, man I am so sorry you went through pre-1990.

[@lisagrace6471]

@@ThoughtfulRebels yeah!!! what is up with thay pay lay ale part?! I just heard about that for the first time in this episode. YIKES!

[@charlesmendeley9823]

​@@ThoughtfulRebels The five points of fellowship introduces a Freemason into the brotherhood. Since it a male only society, this doesn't have any sexual connotations, but since the veil worker in the Mormon temple is always male, representing God or an angel, this gets weird for women. "Mystery hug" is her description of the procedure, since she neither knows about the Masonic background, nor anything else because she was taught absolutely nothing beforehand, which is abusive in itself.

[@TEAM__POSEID0N]

@@ThoughtfulRebels It was actually a big part. It was the final step before a person could go through the veil and enter the Celestial Room. It consists of the following points of physical contact: inside of right foot by the side of right foot, knee to knee, breast to breast, hand to back, and mouth to ear.

[@anthonypozzim]

I really resonated with Michelle’s experience. I left a high control group and actually called Watchtower headquarters to disassociate. Sent a letter to my congregation. Made it public before I told my mom. Luckily I have people in my circle who support me. Make sure you have a good support group before you choose to disassociate. You don’t control how your mom reacts. Praying and rooting for you! Tony ❤🙏🏻

[@Time_Will_Tell760]

Maternal is identical. Both terms are correct.

[@drbulbul]

Loved hearing Michelle speak Chinese!

[@jessicaIulianella]

Happy Birthday Girl! you are Beautiful and articulate Michelle! you keep being you as your Journey unwinds.."_

[@rachelhansen2417]

I’m not even an hour in, and I already relate to this story so much! I’m a fellow Zillennial, 27 in a short while, and recently left. In the words of an apostle, catch the wave-this time, of all of us leaving!

[@amygreen758]

My TBM sister never did modeling but she did pageants. The biting, competitive nature of pageantry really changed the way she treats other women. When I left the church, she discarded me like trash. And it sure affected her health and body, with all the dieting, starvation and energy drinks she consumed. She is only 41, and her spine is already curving over. She has done many body mods already that make her unrecognizable to me. She is going for the Barbie look with fake hair and all the procedures. She is very wealthy and I suspect she takes semaglutide even though she is so small and petite already. Also has her 2nd anointing. I would love to see an episode about the trend of wealthy Mormon women who take the black market weight loss GLP-1 drugs. It is quite popular with wealthy LDS women who can afford it and access it. I wonder who they are getting the drugs from. Because there have been shortages for type 2 diabetics who actually need it.

[@personalizedbrandingdesign6932]

Compound semaglutide and trizepitide cost about 400.00 a month and are abundantly available in American pharmacies . Your sister could easily have a prescription through any telehealth pharmacy, Many just require you answer a few questions. No blood work or in office visits. These are not "black market" drugs.

[@amygreen758]

​​@@personalizedbrandingdesign6932 maybe. How do people get an Rx for it if they are not type 2 diabetic, not insulin resistant or not overweight?

[@personalizedbrandingdesign6932]

@amygreen758 , you can get a prescription for compound GLP's through dozens of u.s. telehealth companies by filling out a simple form online. They do not require blood tests or a doctor visit. The prescription meds are abundantly available and affordable for most Americans if they have a desire to suppress their appetites to lose weight and are willing to budget to do so. FedEx or ups will deliver your monthly prescription to your doorstep, and you can inject your weekly dose in the privacy of your own home. These prescriptions are not "black market" or hard to obtain.

[@personalizedbrandingdesign6932]

@amygreen758 , there are dozens of U.S. telehealth companies that anyone can access online. They require nothing more than answering a few questions, no blood work or in person dr. appointment is required. You are able to have compound GLP's delivered fedex or UPS to your doorstep and administer in the privacy of your own home 😉

[@BrianWaller-qe7gr]

My missionary completely ghosted me when they got home. It’s been two years now I’ve since moved on with my life. I went no contact and if I ever hear from them it will be because they reached out. I won’t give the time of day anymore. To just be discarded like that was emotionally damaging to me. I had to distance myself.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Nowadays, they try to involve ward members as soon as possible to reduce the impact of missionaries moving out of the ward. Sometimes, the ward members even don't try to remember the missionaries names.

[@BrianWaller-qe7gr]

@@charlesmendeley9823 I get that because they get new missionaries every 6-8 weeks but to just completely ghost one of their converts and especially I was considered a “golden convert” was really shocking to me. Especially since the person in this interview tried to keep in touch with her converts but this one just ignored me immediately when they got home. It left a sour taste in my mouth about them personally and about the church. I have since slid into complete obscurity because nobody tries to contact mei have no family so I’m useless to the church

[@charlesmendeley9823]

@@BrianWaller-qe7gr Their life goes on. Maybe they also leave the church. Missionaries are a salesforce. 🤣

[@BrianWaller-qe7gr]

@@charlesmendeley9823 stop making excuses I hold every one accountable for their actions. Ghosting in this scenario is completely unacceptable. It’s just wrong to go from always greeting me to ghosting when I didn’t do anything to warrant it. I’m tired of people making excuses and avoiding accountability.

[@avantgauche]

really lovely interview i wish Michelle and her loved ones peace and happiness

[@raisingthebarclays]

Michelle is so well spoken and has so much insight. I love when Margie joins the podcast. Both John and Margie give non-judgmental vibes and this feeling of, "supportive parents," while listening and discussing with their guests. As always- great episode 🙂

[@dnlhrrng]

I loved Taiwan so much. I have to agree that Mandarin Chinese is not as difficult as some people think. I would describe it as very different, but not complex.

[@harlanlang6556]

Over a billion Chinese men, women and children have no trouble learning Chinese.

[@eastcoastguy_0803]

FYI: In 2013, gay marriages started to be recognized by the Federal Government. Lots of gays including myself got married in 2013 after the supreme court ruling in June that year. In 2015, another supreme court ruling ordered all states to recognize gay marriages from other states. That's when red states finally stopped resisting and allowed gays to marry.

[@meghanchey2121]

This was such an incredible interview. She is sso well spoken I could listen to her for hours! Thank you so much for sharing your story with us!

[@ThatOddChickenHippie]

1:34:47 I recently went to Taiwan, and even though I was only there a few days, I loved it as well! Our tour guide was such a lovely lady who spoke great English so she could help if we needed it, and the people we met were wonderful as well. Even though our Chinese and their English were barely there, we managed to communicate alright

[@marionbartley214]

When Your quest made the comment that she was uncomfortable with what happened in the temple. I felt the very same thing the very first time I went to the temple. To receive my own endowment. Except mine experience was terrible the first time for myself. Not familiar with what I needed to say and do. I got confused when at the vail. And the person behind the vail was getting so angry. And made me feel belittled. That I just had feelings of not joy. But feelings of let me just finish this so I can be done. And the sweet sister who was helping me with that at the vail. Said to me later when we were in the cafeteria. Don't let your experience of what happened here keep you from coming again. It wasn't your fault, So here I was in a room full of other people who just went through a session. I didn't want to be rude, so I said of course not. But in my mind I thought I'm not coming back here for a really long time to do any work. So As time went by I would return to the Temple to do work. But I did initiatories only. I wasn't going to do anything at the vail after that last experience. So I understand what your quest is thinking Because I too thought this is just a cult . What have I gotten myself into !!?? . That was over 20 years ago and in 2018 I stopped going to church.

[@michellecd4722]

Just researching the symbolic representation of a veil in all customs, cultures and religions is interesting.

[@missytyrrell1]

This might be my favourite episode to date. ❤

[@andrewreno6424]

Former scene kid here too! I spent July in Salt Lake. I got to see knuckle puck, wonder years, story so far, and ADTR that month. Great scene!

[@brookieevans6302]

I had no idea they get paid!!! I grew up in bountiful, in summerwood neighborhood. With President Nelson and Sherry Dew as neighbors. My dad worked his butt off to live up there. That really irritates me!

[@lisagrace6471]

WOW I am so sorry

[@DanielFreed-f2b]

This has been such a wonderful interview. She's inspiring.

[@mintyfreshest]

When michelle was trying to think of a mormon stories episode that stuck out to her, my mind immediately went to Liz Lambson! That was an awesome episode!

[@katestrong8558]

I just LOVE this girl!

[@maddiemalacopa]

I loved hearing Michelle's story. Thanks for sharing. She's so wise and brave to share. She's so charming and lovely I hope she can find friends outside the church- i bet tons of women outside of it would love to be a community with her.

[@gladysbatten822]

Enjoyed this, and thank you Michelle! ...from a very deconstructed evangelical...but just gotta say...I really want eternal life. I am 64 and really living my life to the full, but even 100 good years is not enough. I am terrified of the cessation of my consciousness. I imagine poor health, pain, etc could mute this desire but as long as I feel this good, how could I possibly want to cease...I always WANT a new morning!

[@Dots9900]

Very helpful interview. I am not Mormon but finding your many podcasts helped me understand their "ways". My only contact with Mormonism was with a distant relative who got involved when I was helping a close relative who had alzheimer's. I had been helping my close relative for years and dealt with many difficult situations. Initially I received nothing but praise for my kindness. After a while I began receiving subtle criticisms and shaming. Eventually a morning "news report" was sent out to many other relatives detailing the events of the day(mostly bad) for my close relative. It was very hurtful for me since I was doing the best I could. When my close relative passed, he seemed more upset about no longer being able to do his "good works" than the death itself. I am hurt that my relatives may have the perspective that I did not do enough to help my close relative. Your podcast has helped me to understand the perfectionism and subtle shaming that is part of the Mormon "cult".

[@buisnesscat1415]

Taiwan is the best country. As someone who moved here and started a family here, Taiwan will always be home.

[@SamanthaKamilos]

This was excellent. So much I could relate to. I was also about her age when I decided to be a temple worker and that was the beginning of the end for me also. There is something about being 25+ years old and waking up to reality, I woke up and left at about 27 years old and like 8 years later my super devout sister also woke up and left at about the same age. Oh....maybe because that is when our brains become fully developed and can fully process things a little better. Combine that with the internet..... The church is doomed.

[@jakiwolley6853]

Eating disorders are also very prevalent in utah

[@bernadinesegui1262]

I was told they didn’t send the fat girls to Asia. I was going to Mongolia and I noticed at the MTC all the big girls were state side and the thinner girls were going international. It was very shocking.

[@lisagrace6471]

wow, why is that? I have not gotten there yet, so not sure if they cover it.

[@smooth_pursuit]

Everything is made for smaller people in Asia, it might have made it harder for them

[@richharkness5942]

I was devout Mormon now exmo just got married to a Peruvian nevermo in Cusco Peru. I was stake mission leader over the Spanish initiative , elders quorum president, priests quarom advisor to get kids to go on missions, and member of the Sunday school presidency. But during covid I found the gospel topic essay's started looking up church history. Read my great uncle Archeologist professor at byu journal who went to South Central America and stated the bofm was not historical or true no evidence. My wifes DNA is Japanese and Mongolian not from Jerusalem being 9th generation peruvian.

[@babywantsrevenge]

michelle was so relatable. i’m also an artist with adhd, i left the church much earlier but i was one of those kids who was not mormon enough for some kids and too mormon for others. i noticed what she said about liking the mission rules bc they made sense and struggling with authority. that was really relatable too. rules can be helpful, but we shouldn’t be blindly following rules that don’t make sense to us in my opinion

[@Cocoon68]

The prayer circle definitely felt cultish the first time I went through! But then of course you attempt to make it work because you tell yourself that Satan always trys to masquerade or to copy cat what the Lord does.. the mental gymnastics of this so so Crazy

[@marlenemeyer9841]

SAME! Especially pre-1990 penalties. Someone I love even told me to remember those penalties because they haven’t really been removed but people just can’t handle it now. Talk about a scare tactic!!!!!

[@Catryx39]

The prayer circle was the weirdest part to me. That was the moment I felt deep down that this was “stupid”. Everything else I was mostly ok with but that prayer circle chanting… 😳

[@SarahBoyden]

Interesting you felt safe writing about your true feelings in your journal for your posterity hooray! I never wrote about it but I couldn’t contain myself I was so upset in the session & burst out sobbing & the SLC temple matron had to come try to comfort me. In front of a huge packed session where they even had to bring extra chairs in. So embarrassing! Yes the solution was same as you- to go more frequently haha. My 4 time mission pres/temple pres/ MTC pres in laws said it must be because of “the live actors” & made me immediately go to a bunch MORE sessions with them at the bountiful temple where there was video, not live. The live actors were NOT the problem. In laws just decided what my issues were & NEVER asked me what was upsetting me. I cried every single night afterwards for weeks. My mom, family, no one was like maybe this isn’t right for you. They all just watched me cry & continued to push it on me sadly!😪

[@TEAM__POSEID0N]

The odd thing is the way that the temple is always spoken of in hushed tones and built up to be some exquisitely transformative experience that justifies all of the secrecy and reverence that it is given. The "endowed" members whisper to the "un-endowed" about how special the temple is and how much truth is revealed there, finishing off their spiels with a distant look in their eyes, seemingly implying that they can now see heaven itself, thanks to the temple and what they have experienced in the temple. Naturally, being raised in an environment where the temple is constantly spoken of in this manner, people who have not yet gone through it have very, very high expectations. They can't really imagine exactly what happens, but surely it must be profound, life-changing, meaningful and mind-blowingly deep... and the secret mysteries of the meaning of life must be more fully provided in the temple than anywhere else, such truths must also be accompanied by such elevated emotions and spiritual confirmation that the truth of it all must be undeniable.... Then you go, you experience it, and deep down you know you've been punked. (It's like someone has led you on a 10-mile hike to visit a spiritual guide in a hut located on a high and remote mountain. The spiritual guide then shows you a photo of a marmot and gives you a bag of marmot turds, together with a demand for 10% of your annual income. And then informs you that the session is finished and you are not to speak of this experience to anyone outside of the hut. ) The bottom line is that in your heart of hearts, you know you've been punked, but you also know in some way that you're trapped in a real-life version of Hans Christian Anderson's parable of The Emperor's New Clothes. Everyone's been primed to believe that "good people" find deep meaning and spiritual profundity in the wacky pseudo-m a s o n i c cosplay and church monopoly underwear experience, but "bad people" are not in tune with the Holy Ghost and can't see what the good people see. So the pressure to play along and cooperate in your own punking is intense.

[@BG-ig6fd]

Love the 4-5 hour interviews!

[@savannahcook7246]

One of the best episodes ever. Thank you for the amazing representation of us!

[@rochellebeasley9246]

Loved this ! Amen to all that was said ! Could so relate ! Happy Birthday🎉 thank you!

[@DanielFreed-f2b]

I am loving this interview.

[@TheSaintelias]

Oh. Happy birthday. Wow. What a way to celebrate and document the day.

[@amandaprather6573]

What an amazing young lady!

[@m_s578]

Thank you for such an amazing interview, Michelle! I related to you on so many aspects of your life, and it’s empowering to hear your experiences and how kind you are not only to everyone around you but to yourself. I’d hope that most people, in the church or not, would strive to be as kind and generous.

[@bobicusrex]

I love how she worded things. Very uplifting

[@anarchisttutor7423]

I wouldn't worry about making episodes too long. I typically don't hear an episode all in one sitting. No big deal.

[@NMBlackbird]

Margie: You are amazing in listening skills, assessment and affirmation. Please! More Margie!!!

[@NerfHerder909]

I'm only about a third of the way through, but honestly, as a Never-Mo who has friends who are very much in the church, posting stuff about going to the temple, very Mormon, I have the same reaction as Michelle when I see that stuff. These are people that I know to be kind, thoughtful, intelligent people, but then I'll see them post about going on a date night to the temple, and it's impossible not to think about bakers' hats and green aprons, and it's just wild. I can imagine the total shock of growing up surrounded by active Mormons and realizing that basically every adult you know has been going to the temple doing prayer circles and chanting and so on for years. I would think it would freak anyone out.

[@wanwan2180]

That's really cool to learn that BYU's art program is more liberal. She seems like an intuitive and open person, i'm not surprised that she is into art

[@tinyhomestead6023]

Yes! We pretend we know more than we do! Love it!