My Mormon Grandparents Received the Second Anointing - Derren Klein | Ep. 1911

Derren Klein didn't know a split-second decision to examine a document headed for the trash would blow open not just a family secret, but one of the Mormon Church's most-guarded, controversial, and exclusive rituals: the Second Anointing. This discovery set Klein on a transformative journey as he confronted unsettling truths about his faith, family history, and the very foundations of Mormonism.
Show Notes: www.mormonstor...
00:02:13 Overview of the Second Anointing
00:07:55 Darren’s intentions for coming onto Mormon Stories
00:09:20 Finding the letters
00:15:20 [FACEBOOK] Reading the Letter
00:18:05 Darren’s Mormon background
00:22:55 Picture of Darren’s grandparents shaking Spencer W. Kimball's hands
00:28:18 When did he first have doubts about the church?
00:35:00 The demands of the religion
00:36:50 Recognizing the Book of Mormon was plagiarized
00:39:30 It was hard for him to leave the church
00:42:30 Letting his children know they were stepping away from the church
00:47:55 Porcelain bowl on in their house
00:57:12 Sunk cost fallacy
___________________
At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.
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[@JoshuaKlein-pt7ch]

I'm Derren's oldest son. For those of you worrying about how his family will react be assured that he has a lot of supporters in the family like me, my wife, and our kids who have his back. We're proud of his commitment to investigating challenging questions, to earnestly seeking truth and sharing what he finds. In a way that's a pretty "Mormon" thing to do. For those who are criticizing him, I only ask that you examine closely his tone: respectful, deferential, measured, and KIND. Imagine how much better things would be if people on both sides of the Mormon/Post-Mormon divide would emulate him.

[@DerrenKlein]

Thank you Joshua, I love you and your family more than you will ever know!!!

[@liviabunzen]

Beautiful comment ❤

[@Letsmakeitcount_123]

There are rugs with dirt being swept under in every religion. However, I am learning through this channel so so many puzzle pieces that were missing. Feeling guilty to tell the truth is wrong. I have a few people that call themselves truth seekers they’re quite the opposite.

[@SamOrenthal]

Way go

[@JustBelieve56]

😊

[@cougarblue15]

My dad (one being interviewed) is a stand-up guy and he served God diligently his whole life. In this podcast, he did such a great job keeping our family (who were all such amazing people) out of the light and rather delivered so much great insight into the discussion. I really could not be more proud. GREAT PODCAST FAVORITE ONE SO FAR 👏 👏👏

[@DerrenKlein]

Thank you Jacob Klein. I love you more than you will ever know!!!! Families are forever…

[@shoppingwiththedevil]

Derren is one of the most sincere and honest exmormons you’ve ever had on the podcast. I appreciate these types of interviews because it feels easier to share with TBM’s. Thank you!

[@Paulapint3]

I totally agree with you. More than that it's hard for me to understand how his kids who have minds of their own still do not see the full fake picture of the church. Second like him it's been 3 years since finding out and realizing I've been duped for most of my life.

[@mh-db1ml]

His story is my story! Same timing . I would say we maybe around the same age. Maybe alittle order! We have 5 children , husband and sons all did Missions, Callings and Service. I was so nervous to tell my husband too! He was so understanding and carefully listened to me. I sent videos and talks... He was like... WOW, WOW WOW💥... It's hard not to say! We didn't want to lose our faith either! We don't want to drink either ... We want to live a Christ Centered Life... Love others and serve! It was the most excruciating things we've ever been through! I felt so deceived! Four out of the five children are where we are, but one is still very active because they have five children and does not know what to think. It's going to be really hard on our oldest grandchild if they choose to get married in the temple and finding out grandma and grandpa cannot be there with them. Heartache everywhere! But I will stand by what I now know as the truth!

[@DerrenKlein]

OMG, I can totally relate to everything you have said… This is the most painful thing I’ve been through for a long time. One interesting thing though. We have never been happier in our lives, and we feel peace knowing the truth. I wish you nothing but the same best life. Transparency and truth will always surface, if you continue to seek for it… Thank you for your wonderful comments…

[@reginaFaris]

Inju😅oòoo😊?jkjjm mm jkmmmjmmj m mmjm m jkkj😅​@@Paulapint3

[@reginaFaris]

​@@Paulapint399😊99

[@AlanZabriskie-tr2uj]

Derren nailed it on the head to refer to the Second Anointing as a "Good old boys club" pass to the Celestial Kingdom.

[@jenniferheil6549]

This is one of the best Mormon Stories I have listened to. Derren was sincere and humble, all he wants to do is help others see the truth. Great job Derren you are an example to all Mormons, active, or inactive .👏👏👏

[@Suzyslly]

The story of the apology to the gay friend made me tear up. That is true Christ like behavior.

[@Peterw3160]

Yes, that made me tear up too. But the adjective Christlike is very misguided. The guest in the podcast, was being a humanist, not a Christian, when he reached out to his gay classmate.

[@DerrenKlein]

May I interject? My sweet friend taught me the most valuable life lesson. He never once was worried about how I hurt him, he was only forgiving, humble in every way. His only want was for me to help other people reach a level of love and acceptance for the LGBTQ community. He is the most Christ Like Person that I know.❤

[@karenbutler2219]

@@DerrenKlein Thank you for sharing this! Some of the sweetest, most loving and sincere people I know are gay or transgender as well! Their particular life trials teach them what healthy self-acceptance and love is all about. Because when we come to know ourselves, "forgive" ourselves, and unconditionally love who we are, we have nothing standing in the way of loving others more fully.

[@rosem3967]

Derren is so humble & sincere. I am so happy that they found out the truth of the Church. The Church has betrayed many, many people. I believe in Jesus Christ and never lost my faith in Him.

[@rueroxanne972]

Derren Klein comes across very compassionate and kind.

[@beckyburnett8641]

Excellent series and this was an excellent episode. Most members have no idea about the second anointing and it is crazy how they did it then didnt then did it. I am glad Derren & his wife were able to leave the church behind.

[@Peterw3160]

Great guest! My life has only gotten better since leaving the Mormons 20 years ago. Your apology to your classmate is quite touching. This demonstrates that true morality comes from inside, not from tablets or organizations. This demonstrates that true morality comes from inside, not from tablets or organizations.

[@brittvaughn9447]

Your friend was right. Hearing someone admit that they were wrong in how they treated a member of my community and accept responsibility is extremely powerful. I'm not gonna say I cried or anything but.... Well, okay yeah I did.

[@LanceHarris-hw9we]

Second anointing priesthood ban week!? This may be the best week of Mormon Stories to date!

[@MORMON_OEVE]

Soy Chileno y escucho estos programas y otros relacionados, que la iglesia no dice o comparte a sus miembros. Soy un miembro activo con recomendación vigente al templo de Santiago de Chile 🇨🇱 Gracias por compartir esta excelente historia de Darren Sin duda, el viaje de fe que cada uno vivimos no es sencillo

[@LenaLindroth-g1v]

Im allways find myself speachless when so many mormons thinks that they are the only caring loving. These qaulity are humanity not religous ground. It is avrulla very affended!! As the man said: He keeps being a good man even after leaving his faith Regards L

[@TheSaintelias]

Always so interested in how couples can be brought together and have such a deeper relationship when they deconstruct together and have an awakening together. I feel so bad for those who don’t have spouses who can value the marriage over a common belief in a church.

[@michellesmith6891]

It definitely is hard! Wish my hubby would listen to this and other episodes.

[@TheSaintelias]

@@michellesmith6891 hang in there. My wife didn’t push back but didn’t want to read or listen. I gave her time. Eventually the ridiculous patriarchy and tik tok brought her to asking questions. Watch KZbin and tik tok around your husband. Then he will get fed videos without you trying. lol. Good luck.

[@wildlyshy9885]

This guy seems like such a good person and a wonderful human ❤

[@spenceredford4403]

This is even better than Shark Week on the Discovery Channel

[@JS-do7zf]

Hilarious!

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

I'm so glad their marriage wasn't in trouble when the church's truth claims came up. That's awesome!

[@rkn2800]

Chad Daybell & Lori Vallow felt they were exalted & therefore above the law & felt that even murder could not affect their exaltation. They certainly felt that child abuse was justified & they felt they were at the level of prophet & even dismissed the authority of the LDS prophets. So this concept of early exaltation fosters narcissism.

[@sheliabryant3997]

@rkn2800. Brings to mind the "Orc-forming" pit in the churning bowels of The Dark Tower. Can't help feeling sorry for the "monstrous" creatures who neither made themselves nor had anything whatsoever to do with their own makeup. Much worse, however, is EXALTATION of any form, in any time. Because that does to a man what rabies does to a dog who knows only love. Yet, when the dog proves rabid, there's but one thing for it. And LOVE ITSELF demands that. IMMEDIATELY. 😭🔥😭🔥😭🔥

[@gailhawkins2210]

What I never understood as a newish convert was why things kept changing and there was always what they thought was a suitable explanation for it that I never could understand. The other pat answer was we have faith when we don't understand. And then there was that Conference talk about not asking why, but instead we should ask 'why not?'' Interesting head games (and no sensible answers to my questions) that I couldn't keep up with led me to keep avoiding going to the Temple until I finally realized (after much prayerful searching) I needed to just stop. This was over a two year period.

[@Wanda69710]

I was 65 when I broke out of Mormonism. The RS president visited one day and said you’ve come this far to leave. Grasp what you do know, and stay in.😢 I didn’t

[@martha-meg]

I am super proud of you!!

[@Wanda69710]

@@martha-meg thanks so much. That means a lot to me!

[@emptynesters2520]

Looking forward to catching up with Tom Phillips to see how he’s been doing. His story definitely changed our lives and we value his story more than he probably knows! Thank you both for this episode, we appreciate you!

[@ELMIGUELON1963]

Derren is such a great person , a trustable guy, you can see it in his eyes

[@whitajeman]

😮wow what an eye opening episode! My mom lost her mother and grandparents when she was only 28-33 years old and they are long time LDS rooted families in AZ. We had so much family history that was lost bc we werent there to save the journals ansd documents before they got trashed. Glad Darren was able to preserve this monumental document chain!

[@patriciashears25]

I KNEW ALL ABOUT THIS ORDINANCE BACK IN 1976.!! I remember as a new convert and a young mother in Sunday school. This topic of your “Calling and Election made sure.”It was explained that only the most righteous person are allowed to have this ordinance. They also warned that you will be badly tempted once you have it for Satan will work hard on you. If you fail to be obedient to that ordinance you are lost forever from coming to the celestial home. This was put on us as very serious and that some people refuse the offer because of that warning. Better not say it was in Sunday but i remember some adults talking quietly about it at church. I would prefer to refuse it in case i Fail. At least i will be with my family.

[@patriciashears25]

I never heard of it as a secret but knew it was so sacred. Only once later have i heard it mentioned in Relief Society.

[@LifeAfterBelief]

Brian Buchanan is on, so I watch!! It’s simply a new rule I live by. 😊

[@MrPuglove13]

Thank you for your honesty and humility.

[@michellesmith6891]

Omg, now I really wonder if my grandparents received it.😮 President Kimball came to Oklahoma and visited in their Home, ate, etc.

[@lovelyrita298]

I hate to disagree with John, but i love it when he interrupts! It makes it more natural and there is always a reason for him foing so!

[@CatskillsGrrl]

Agreed!

[@DerrenKlein]

I totally agree. Being together on a podcast is kinda scary for those of us who haven’t done this before. Your brain kinda checks out from time to time. Thank heavens we have JD to keep us on task and topic, simply reminding us from time to time not to forget. He’s simply amazing. You will never find a more kind-loving soul…

[@jannydots3870]

The reason for the secrecy is because a mortal man reaching out to only a select few and then telling them to keep it secret speaks all kinds of wrong and the church leaders know it. It goes against everything that Jesus taught. Thank you for sharing your story, I know it is not easy. It is important though. Especially for others who have discovered the truth about Joseph Smith. Please take care of yourself, you seem to be worried so much for others who are still members. Now is the time to nurture yourself and your wife. Don’t give up. 🙏

[@DerrenKlein]

Great advice. I seriously appreciate those words of wisdom…

[@nancysteen9111]

Why should any religious ceremony be secret? To establish the superiority of certain believers? Did Jesus hold rituals behind closed doors?

[@jacoblewis2961]

🎯🎯

[@charlesmendeley9823]

The answer is Freemasonry. Freemasonry was done behind closed doors, because the free dialog amount Enlightenment thinkers was critical of monarchical structures. When Joseph plagiarized Freemasonry, he used the secrecy to keep his polygamy secret.

[@mary-je7gb]

@@charlesmendeley9823he did not plagiarize FM. It was founded on FM. Same as the Seventh Day Adventist

[@DominieRobinson]

Quakers have a phrase " what doest thou knowest of the Lord Experientially ?" which, says it all for me

[@ryanlayton5156]

By they're trap doors ye shall indeed know them "

[@allzeenamesaretaken]

I can’t help but love his ownership of his mistakes in regards to the LGBT+ community. (Around 29:00). We all make mistakes but owning it, admitting it, and changing for the better is just so refreshing. That takes real courage and something the church teaches but absolutely doesn’t practice. I applaud Darren 👏

[@lcutie36]

Please make this letter available for download so we can share it.

[@TheSandyStone]

Second this!

[@believeinnature8930]

Yes, make it available!

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

So excited for this episode!

[@Lyoncub]

Love this guy! Legit. Humble. ❤️

[@DominieRobinson]

This "Second Annointing" sounds like a Secret Society internal 'good Ol'e Boy ' Network membership gladhanding giving each other a 'free pass' with a wink and a nod, patting each other on the back and it sounds like PRIDE plain and simple something The KJV Warns against as scripture states Haughty Eyes being one of the "most Offensive " to the Most High

[@patriciashears25]

This was not freely given🎉as mentioned. You had to be a very righteous very spiritual people

[@larrymerket3863]

Thanks for sharing your story Darren! It’s heartbreaking when your whole world is built around the church, then you find out they were hiding things and being dishonest all along.

[@DerrenKlein]

You’re absolutely right Larry. I can tell you every day that we’re out life just gets better!!!

[@goodcheer6387]

It breaks my heart that it took/takes so many of us so long to find the problems with the religions in which we were raised.

[@pamelavargas6811]

I hang tight to my Belief in God and not on a Organization of people or a specific building...I have attended different denominations but never got into the politics

[@robertwojnar5166]

It is funny. My dad never left the church but i remember him clearly calling certain members part of “The Good Ole Boys Club”. He passed away in 2002, but i think he knew something was not quite right.

[@tawnyachristensen7310]

After listening to his story you can tell that Derren is one of the salt of the earth people, honest and open and he just wanted to belong to a church with the same values. It's never too late to wake up and smell the coffee...

[@deb6519]

Yes and you get to even drink the coffee then!!!

[@denisekeeran9883]

I can't wait for Tom Phillips' update

[@slvrsrfr92]

The church can't be openly transparent. The apologists' reason for that is milk before meat. But I say if it is the truth nothing can sway it. If it is built upon the sand, it will fall easily. It's sad that a little bit of that meat causes it to sink in that sand. The church is a deck of cards built upon the sand, once you start thinking and piecing it for yourself it topples with a slight breeze.

[@sheliabryant3997]

@slvrsrfr. Neither milk nor meat. Only contaminated fodder. Astonishing how many (momo proponent?) "commenters" refer to the old "M & M", and how they regard pro-pod commenters as being completely "off the menu" while their own defences of church abuse and criticisms of pods prove t hem to be foaming at the mouth with acid reflux of priesthood "authority" arrogance. Utterly vacuous and lacking in "natural affection". Scary.

[@terriannehigby4095]

Maybe the reason for keeping it a secret is because they know it has nothing to do with God.

[@carriereid4234]

It certainly has nothing to do with the New Testament Jesus. They want to be seen as more like other Christians so desperately need to keep this under wraps!!!!

[@amygreen758]

Thanks for sharing! I have very wealthy extended family who have hinted at receiving their 2nds. I would kove to hear this additional point discussed sometime (correct me if I am wrong): the 2nd annointing is never offered to just a single woman based on her righteousous. It's about men. A wife is invited to be part of the annointing, based on who the man she is married to, and how weatlhy he is.

[@sandramelia3765]

Darren please stop feeling bad for questioning why a just God would give people carte blanche and not others. You have removed the veil of deceit or scales from your eyes.

[@cougarblue15]

Please expand…. I think you missed his point. Obviously it’s wrong for God to give people a free pass to heaven (regardless of their sins) and not all

[@StillThinkingAboutIt]

Wow, this is amazing

[@sanachristian4577]

Precious. Humans are infants. Darling. Flawed. Beloved. It’s lovely to recognize that Jesus is our perfect Brother who has paid for our debts and rescued us. It’s our choice to accept the invite. Us silly humans. 😁🩷 We will each one day go Home and rejoice in the love and safety and sweet serenity as immediately as we slip through the Veil to the Spirit World. It’s such a beautiful and sweet experience!!! 🩷🙏🏻

[@dannylarsen4290]

It's all about "the church." in this interview. Where is God in member's testimonies? Mormonism is more about religion than relationship with the Savior.

[@linzmckinz]

Loved hearing Derren's story, thank you

[@sandramelia3765]

The fact Mormonism was formed based on Jesus doing a less than stellar job at being a Savior shocks me.

[@ryant6134]

Interesting. You mind elaborating more?

[@lespaul382]

Based on Jesus?...Or Lucifer and the fallen ones?...

[@katieedwards6444]

I think they mean that Christ's new testiment church failed, and so he needed joe to restore in a way that will last forever

[@lisabrinkerhoff4706]

One of the greatest frauds ever perpetuated on such a large amount of people, was mormonism. Satan is at the root of this amazing fraud... !

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Mormonism invalidates normal Christianity, and with it all of Western civilization. All Western Empires are based on Nicene Christianity. The Roman Empire (since Constantine), the German Reich, the British Empire are all based on Nicene Christianity.

[@darin6958]

Do you think they would grant a temple recommend to someone who received the second annoiting but decided to stop obeying the word of wisdom?

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Maybe they get a permanent temple recommend with no expiration date.

[@juliediehl4895]

Powerful interview.

[@stevencork5201]

Tithing is major requirement for temple. Why do many members get recommends whom are partial payers. Their temple work will be voided unless they are full payers.

[@monyetgoblog7038]

Might as well sell indulgences if you are going to have a second anointing.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Exactly. The second Anointing is one of the early Catholic doctrines in Mormonism, tall steeples are a modern one.

[@rosemariebennett7213]

Great episode

[@SkinBike]

I appreciate the mature and dignified way that Derren expressed himself. This is the way it should always be when a difference of opinion occurs. I am a lifelong active member of the LDS faith and I see things differently than Derren does but I respect his right to see things his way. I want to make a few points; first, it would be physically and geographically impossible for any prophet to meet every member of the church who could be worthy of this ordinance. Second, although this is an essential ordinance for exaltation, it is not essential that it takes place in mortality. Everyone who qualifies for exaltation will, at some point, receive all necessary ordinances to complete the process. Finally, this is a sacred ordinance and, as such, it is not discussed in church meetings or lessons. It is appropriate to minimize conversations about something as sacred as this. The answer to Derren's question of; "why isn't this available to all members instead of a select group" is easy, it will be available at some point to every qualified person. I'm not worried about it in this life. If it happens now it happens. If it doesn't, so be it. I still believe!

[@DerrenKlein]

I can appreciate your opinion on this topic but it is simply that. Your Opinion. Where did you come up with this explanation? Could you please share with ALL your sources so we can further understand your opinion?

[@terryberwick760]

Tithing goes against family during times of hardships it doesn't make sense to me.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

LDS tithing makes no sense at all. Old testament tithing was used to pay the priests (Levites) who didn't own land and performed temple work for the whole nation. In contrast, new testament teaches that Paul and others took on regular work and preached without being paid. Both systems are fine. But in Mormonism, you pay a huge tithing, yet regular church positions (bishops, etc.) are not paid. Only general authorities, etc are paid. This led to a huge surplus of over $200 billion, which are hoarded in the financial arm "Ensign Peak Advisors".

[@lj9524]

The second anointing must have involved some physical symbol that the recipients were given as a result of that experience. A physical symbol which would only be recognized by another person who had been given that second anointing. Thus no need for a letter. Great discussion!

[@CocoKmimi]

John, non Mormon here. I appreciate your interruptions. Often, it is to provide more color for those of us who do not understand the Mormon shortcuts. I need the background info

[@dl1130]

I would like to see more episodes of mormons who have left the church and transitioned to a new home and faith such as Evangelical Christianity.

[@rkn2800]

Personally, I don’t view the Evangelical churches as anything different, still cultish with a herd mentality & quite hateful towards Mormons. Not much there to attract a Mormon who loses interest in that faith.

[@Allthoseopposed]

Good luck, they are Mormon unicorns. 🦄

[@jewelgazer]

I would like to see that too! Also any Christian denomination would be fine too, right??!! Sandra and Gerald Tanner are great examples of this! Also the Wilder family. :)

[@jewelgazer]

Oh and I forgot something - there are a lot of videos on KZbin of Sandra Tanner and the Wilder family speaking at various Christian churches about all of this stuff. It’s fascinating.

[@SantaRPG]

I'm having trouble trying to frame this in a respectful way, please don't read this as snarky, but if you deconstruct Mormonism and consider evangelical, strongly consider therapy.

[@freddrysdale865]

Thanks!

[@CMBauer]

It’s a whole week!? Sweet!

[@emilymiller4195]

Thanks!

[@williambrooks9548]

As a former LDS member & one who believed that God speaks to us without any requirements or need to join a special group or church. Suggest you read 'DISAPPEARANCE OF THE UNIVERSE & THE COURSE IN MIRACLES. These have bought me more peace, joy & healing than I thought possible. These 2 books are 2 present day teaching s dictated to a doctor of psychology at Columbia University & a young man's visitations by 2 ascended masters explaining the CIM teachings of J.

[@pamelavargas6811]

It must be scary leaving knowing that your parents are disappointed and wondering if how they could differently of you 😮

[@hbendzulla8213]

Thanks!

[@joellespice1010]

It’s like getting a pardon!

[@paulhoughton4813]

I tried to let this go, and I try not to think about it, but it felt like a literal fight for my life! I had this gay “friend” or at least who I thought was a friend and he tried to rape me. I was trying to talk him down and he hit me three times in the face once in my eye my nose and my mouth and I told him if you hit me one more time I’m gonna take you down. I’m a 53-year-old man that’s not in very good shape and he was a 32 year old man in really good shape. Anyways, I was able to fight him off, but I’m still dealing With the after effects of it. I know he doesn’t represent all gay men however it was very traumatic, and it literally felt like I was fighting for my life. This happened a couple years ago into this day. I have a very difficult time sleeping when it’s dark outside. What made it worse was the police didn’t catch him right away and for a couple months periodically he would come bang on my windows and door and yell what he was going to do to me. I think that was harder on me than the actual attempt.

[@paulhoughton4813]

It gave me a tremendous amount of empathy for women and what they must go through. There were things about mine that I really didn’t want to tell people, and when I did tell people I would get judged for it. It made me feel like women in the first place or as strong and can’t fight the aggressor away as I did, but also what are they gonna tell people and what are people gonna say about them and it just gave me a tremendous amount of empathy

[@DerrenKlein]

I am so sorry for all that you have gone through. Life can be so unfair at times. I hope you can find peace with this experience that you have had. It’s never ok to be a victim of abuse. And YOU are not to blame for his poor decision. I wish you the very best moving forward!!!❤

[@FabricofTime]

I'm so sorry you went through that; that sounds like a very violating and scary experience. Please know that what happened to you was not your fault or the result of anything you did in any way; rape and assault is about the misplaced entitlement and selfishness of the aggressor, not what we as victims did, said, looked like, or chose to be at the time. I'm also an SA survivor; I know how it feels to tell people about what happened and to be invalidated or argued with (as if they know better what happened than we do even though they weren't there!). Sadly, anyone can be the aggressor and anyone the victim. I sometimes think it's a much more universal experience than you'd hope and most people just don't talk about it.

[@wanderingrenegade771]

I am not sure about the second annointment as valid or necessary in this life , already most have not got this,s this means just 144k in celestial kingdom and billions not there. This great lds plan seems to fail in saving and exaulting very well.

[@leighyorgason6702]

Good grief. This is a Utah thing. Are you people aware that there is a whole world out there?

[@lakeleafty1077]

Do they ever provide documentation on when/if Joseph smith really introduced this?

[@carriereid4234]

Check out the previous episode. It shows the receipts!!

[@karenjunguzza6611]

I'm wondering if it's the feeling of validation, acceptance and worthiness that makes someone adhere to any system that gives them a feeling of superiority. When the guest was reading the secret invitation to his grandparents, it sounded like an invitation to a Klan rally, although I'm sure that wasn't his grandparents' experience. They had been vetted by the powers that be and found to be "team players." It seems to take shunning and/or dismissal to make mormons fully aware of the church's true nature. They will over look the racism and the anti LGBTQA rhetoric but be hurt when those same hurtful attitudes are turned on them when they leave. It seems the "goodness" of a person is measured by how they treat other members but somehow smacks of patronization when they are "good" to those outside of or marginalized within the church.

[@goinggray]

A question for Darren. I have left the church coming on 6 years. Much of what I have learned makes me want to encourage my parents, who of my 6 other immediate family are the only in, to leave. My hesitation isn't just respect, but I also fear the pain it would cause them. Has your 3 years of pain and difficulty from leaving been worth the change to liberation?

[@DerrenKlein]

It’s definitely been the right thing to do, and the daily joy and love in my life has been nothing but enhanced. I’m not suggesting that it hasn’t been painful from time to time because it is. But it’s nothing like the mental frustration the church causes those who try to live up to their changing narrative. TBM and their hate does nothing but confirm how right my decision has been to leave such a religious cult… Everyone’s faith journey is different and personal, I simply wish you the very best moving forward…

[@goinggray]

@@DerrenKlein I greatly appreciate the reply!

[@Letsmakeitcount_123]

I can’t find Tom Philip’s story. Is there a Date and Title on here? TY

[@heidiWava]

I'm a naughty (questions & doubts.., still believing though) Mormon. But I believe. The most peace ✌ I feel, but also conflicted..! I run into people, videos, etc. every so often, that support The B O M & or "The Church" being true... People that have lived in countries outside of the U.S.A. & also some in the USA- areas that have Book of Mormon history things in stone/pyramid areas, petroglyph(s), etc. I haven't found peace in denying.. & still have questions with enough that I am still not "in" completely, nor out. I don't know if I currently fit in or/nor out!

[@katiejohnson3836]

Which temple location did this happen in?

[@GeorgeBoussia]

Please i address both again in my important request...

[@BrewUrOwnBeer]

There has been a change in the audio recently there is alot of mouth noise/mouth clicks. This can be fixed

[@mormonstories]

How?

[@lespaul382]

Ritual? Or OCCULT RITUAL?..

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Joseph Smith was deeply into the occult and esoteric. Freemasonry, Rosicrucianism, Alchemy, Folk Magic, Kabbalah, Astrology, Hermeticism. The more you study Early Mormonism, the more you will find its roots in these occult traditions.

[@lespaul382]

@@charlesmendeley9823 I am fully aware of the occult, particularly in relation to the ABOMINATION that is the LDS ORGANIZATION. I say organization, because that's exactly what it is. I'm even more aware of what's actually operating behind the veil. Particularly when pertaining to the hierarchy of the LDS organization and the underbelly of Salt Lake City Utah. This is coming from someone who was raised LDS, and is from Salt Lake City Utah. And yes, the so called "lord" of Mormonism is Lucifer.

[@JerimeBascon]

"CON-ARTIS = "CON- CERN" = BOOM!!....WHY SCIENCE FROM ALL OVER THE HAD CREATED NOTHING BUT MADNESS...

[@MrPuglove13]

It’s literally giving your entire life-as well as GREAT resources to a LIE.

[@mothersgauri4137]

This is so sad and so painful. Truth does not need a place to hide. Perhaps what needs to be understood is that it is not God who is the problem, it's the men who created a "secret club" and called it "Christianity" under the name of Mormonism. God is just, men are fallible. When leaving any "cult", one has to understand that it isn't Christianity or the basic Spirituality that was used to draw people in that is false, it is the interpretation that was given. The way it was twisted to gain control over people's lives. There is the real problem...the control. It is MEN who seek to control you. Go back to the real Bible and read it in context and you will find your true God...a loving God who wants to free you.....not oppress you.

[@SatansRoerhat]

🌼🌼🌼

[@TyleRMatin6532]

“I knew what the letter meant because I had listened to Tom’s podcast” proceeds to read the letter out loud and its contents are so direct and to the point a 5th grader could understand without any additional explanation! God should allow all of us to get ordinances it’s not fair! (Referring to the 2nd anointing yet forgets he accepted his church was teaching heterosexual marriage as essential. Can’t be a heterosexual single or LGBTQ) I’m 10 minutes in and I feel I’ve been introduced to a naive hypocrite in the realm of “have and have nots”. Gonna pass on the rest of the interview.

[@hcmoran72]

Are you a born again Christian?

[@angelinaanderson481]

I would caution any normal person watching this to be aware of the personal vendictive motives of the host. He seems to love ripping apart anything and everything “mormon”. Ripping apart even good things shows intent.

[@DerrenKlein]

His intent is and always will be to seek transparency when it comes to all things Mormon. He never wanted to loose his faith and has always seeked to find the whole and real truth. I caution you to ask the same questions!! You will not be able to reconcile…

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Don't forget to tell your bishop during your next temple interview that you are veraciously watching anti Mormon content. 👍

[@Marcadologo574]

I noticed that too he is relentless , is quick also to point and make sure names are put in nouns lol

[@FabricofTime]

Do you have a specific factual criticism, with evidence to the contrary?

[@camronbrewer8994]

You're not trying to persuade anyone to go anywhere? Uh...

[@DonaldWoods-h5r]

I attended firesides in the early 1980's with Elder Fred and June Babbel. They taught about receiving the Second Comforter and drawing on the powers of heaven. They wrote books about knowing God and Christ and ' Calling and Election' ideas . I always supposed God decided you were worthy and Christ would come make His abode with you. I find it off putting that a person can be nominated by someone else to receive such a blessing. How can another human know a person's private life and heart. It smacks of elitism and buying loyalty. Every member should be aware of this Bullshit!

[@sheliabryant3997]

@user-xi9. "Smacks of elitism." Yes. And drools a foaming heresy.

[@tamaraelsberry6630]

Love Fred and June Babel. ❤

[@williamwallaceg2627]

I’ve developed the 3rd anointing!! Done at home or in a natural setting. You sign a document requesting your name be removed from your high demand religious association. 😮😮😊😊😊

[@brendkillpack3357]

Hey. I did the third anointing! Smartest thing I have done in my life. 😊

[@curthoaldridge507]

Love Darren’s sincerity. Love that his Grandparents were such amazing people. He exudes their love and generosity.

[@jimanddonnadexter523]

Being raised LDS, being Annointed in the Temple placed us above others, which is wrong enough. Why would anyone want a Second Annointing. If " the greatest amoung you " is a servant, why would ANYONE want to be placed above anyone else and claim to follow Christ? If they are above me, so be it. Whoever they follow isnt the same I do.

[@believeinnature8930]

To make them proud!

[@sheliabryant3997]

@jimanddonna. Your "soul-sense" and spiritual integrity are witness to the truth of Truth. And offer encouragement to us who have learned to trust no one and suspect everything, rightly enough. But the practical mundanity of the material CAN still hold enough significance to brace the exhausted in this temporal realm, and perhaps assuage our inclinations to surrender ourselves to the dark oblivion of cynicism.

[@mrmeditate790]

It would be humbling to hear a janitor receive their second anointing. But that will never happen.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Plus LDS Churches don't have janitors. The members have to clean their wards by themselves, not touching the $200 billion on Ensign Peak Advisors bank accounts.

[@grannyvroomvroom2523]

John, as a former Mormon fleeing domestic abuse I have great respect for your work and hope you will continue to speak up! I lived with years of abuse as church leaders blamed me for what was happening to me, victim blaming because those in authority of the church are unqualified and grossly inept, and to cover up the original abuse and their own incompetency, they blame the victim! Coverup is second nature to these people! Your podcast serve a great purpose, unfortunately they are too long for me to listen to, but I hope others benefit from the truths you continue to reveal. Best wishes for continued success!

[@toniebonilla3165]

You are not alone !! I understand completely

[@nancyjohnson8642]

oh yes. too long. John’s intros are about twice to three times too long. And then he feels compelled to recap midway etc. keeps cutting iff or talking iver his fuests -ostinsibly to “explain” more. Sheesh Until I just turn it off. Just takes way too long to make the point. I definitely learn things from him but can no longer stand the length!

[@ppgranja3]

I personally love how long and detailed they are. Keep it up the great work, John and Margie!

[@wanderingrenegade771]

Ty for sharing, hiding abuse as a church needs to be investigated by the police.

[@Suzyslly]

@@nancyjohnson8642Wut???

[@pamelavargas6811]

As i short time LDS I never understood how God would select 1 church to become the select few who would end up in heaven when I knew so many outstanding God follwers...

[@AaronWallace-ue6lh]

U

[@charlesmendeley9823]

It also makes no sense for Jesus to abandon humankind for about 1800 years.

[@TyleRMatin6532]

@@charlesmendeley9823 well where is he?

[@charlesmendeley9823]

@@TyleRMatin6532 Mt 18:20

[@skyleawood2649]

Fascinating and vastly important for the telling of these stories of awakening and the journey to find true thought freedom. How traumatic it must be to come to the realization you've been hoodwinked and you've also been a part of the hoodwinking. How do you deal with unraveling what you've woven unwittingly into your own children and their children! Blessings

[@SaffronHammer]

How sad to believe in a God who separates beloved family members for eternity--and yet the LDS church sells itself on its promise that Family Is Forever--when from the bottom up, it is the opposite on every level. 😞

[@sheliabryant3997]

@Saffron. The "church" proves itself the breathing body of overreach and perdition. And that's good! WE NEED TO SEE IT. Even to have to bear our burden of having been deluded by our own delusional nature and tainted by that from which arise the wages of sin.

[@SaffronHammer]

@@sheliabryant3997 I have no idea what that means, but I trust a loving and just god will love, bless, and protect me, even if I am not able to believe in it. Really, if god is Love, there is nothing for me to fear. No loving all powerful creator of the universe would be offended by my being a human, nor demand I worship him. The idea is preposterous.

[@heavencanwait421]

Just to be clear. This has NOTHING to do with Jesus!!

[@rodneysylvester8249]

Genevieve is my great Aunt, so I can't wait to listen to this later today and learn more about them!

[@cherylduncan5158]

Derren is a wonderful man! The church needs to put everything out there and have no more secrets.

[@michelle5784]

I just noticed how the letter was addressed just to his grandfather and invited him (and his wife) to get their second annoitings. They could have addressed the invitation to both of them, but they didn't. She seems like an afterthought, a tool that makes his second annoiting possible. She washes his feet. She blesses him (which is nice since that never happens), but does she receive anything as a part of it? Is any of it towards her, or is it all to bless him? I guess through that ordinance, she would technically also have it but through her relationship with her husband. Just like in the endowment where a woman can only get to God through her husband.

[@jannydots3870]

I noticed that too😔

[@believeinnature8930]

I wouldn’t be surprise if the LDS bosses come up with more and more cultish stuff and stupidity! I get goose bumps and feel so uncomfortable knowing that these scary rituals are happening. Women pushed to act as slaves, battlers, servers! I also find it so embarrassing! If Mary washed Jesus feet it was an acto of love. She was not told too do it! It was something spontaneous and her way to acknowledge Jesus as a divine being! That does not mean women should do it to their husbands!

[@theone5668]

From the Mormon point of view, it makes sense that the letter is addressed to the grandfather only, because he is the one who has the priesthood.