Two Gay Sons in a Mormon Military Family - Laing Family Pt. 3 | Ep. 1468

[@mariannedwyer8402]

Dear Commander Laing and Heather. Thank you for your story. Commander, you may not remember, but in 2018 Rocky Rhodes reached out to you so that you would check on my son at USNA. My son was so impressed with your compassion and kindness. He said you are very respected by all midshipmen. When you asked him about church and he said he was attending a non denomination church, you were kind. We have our own interesting story and you respected his. Thank you for your service to our country, but especially to our midshipmen.

[@ViolAM3]

Crazy to me, how I am not ex-Mormon, but I can listen to podcast after podcast and find so much I relate to and can heal from coming out of my own small religious cult.

[@jaredmitchell1302]

Most cults use the same tactics to control their parishioners. You are not alone many of us have been through the religions abuse as well. Much love.

[@jodigirl6610]

Me too!

[@lesliecardwell2653]

Me too! Lots of feelings I can relate to

[@Heidi_Huntley]

Same! These podcasts are therapeutic.

[@trekpac2]

As a secular spiritualist, I also am such a fan and follow it hour after hour, learning so much.

[@realMichaelJordan]

These three episodes were by far my favorite episodes released and is helping me reflect through everything. Thank you for what you do!

[@Jamama4]

I was choked up listening to this father talk about his love for his sons. ❤

[@kaijusushi8165]

I love Kelly's term: It should be called a "Truth Crisis", not a faith crisis

[@foxibot]

Absolutely agree.

[@bmeggy11]

I have no idea why am enthralled by Mormon stories. I’m not Mormon or from a high demand religion either. Wow this was Beautiful and brave! You have an amazing family. Humanity at it's best and worst. The best prevailed in your family. Thank you for sharing and being so vulnerable.

[@bdm1957]

Outstanding! As a former Bishop, 2 things that I highly recommend 1) Dont give the Church all your time - you will NEVER get it back. 2) Dont give them your money, the Church does not need it - especially when they just purchased the Maui Marriott and received a profit of 3.5 Billion with their GameStop stock. Life is SO MUCH BETTER WITHOUT THE CHURCH!!!!

[@lisagrace6471]

WOW! Was that maui resort from pre-fire or post-fire? Do you have a blog or something where you keep up on the church's business affairs? @bdm1957

[@halludacer8953]

I’m one of the non Mormon and completely non religious fans of this podcast. I love this family. What a wonderful father and lovely sons and wife. All just a beautiful jigsaw puzzle. ❤

[@davidmoore6551]

Incredible family. You two guys are so fortunate to have these parents. I come from a Church of Christ background and there are so many parallels. At 55 yrs old, still closeted, I sat beside my dad when he died (he was a CofC minister) and one of my first thoughts was, now he knows, and I wondered if he still loves me. You guys know and are so blessed. Incidentally, so are your parents. We need more families like this.

[@rebeccajoy3539]

To the whole family - your story helped me! Very thankful! Thank you so much!

[@gaelleflorack3630]

A comment from a French LGBT person living in Reims, France. I spent many AMAZING hours listening to the testimonies of the Laing family. SO, to the Laing family: Thank you for sharing. Gaelle.

[@iandotson1366]

I met the Laing family over 20 years ago in Charleston when I joined the church. They were very kind and merciful to me in the short time I was around them. Kelly was transferred to another assignment about two months after I met them. I stopped attending the church many years ago. I was using religion to cover up my sexuality. I realized you can't "pray the gay away" I looked up their Facebook profile and I was so amazed to see that they had two gay sons and they no longer attend the church either. I am hoping to reconnect with them and meet their two sons as well. Those young men are so fortunate to have the parents they have.

[@mindeloman]

0:08:30 - reminds me of one of the best Mormon related jokes I've ever heard. - - A guy isn't feeling well. After many days and a battery of tests, the doctor comes in and says, "I've got some bad news. You have cancer and it has spread. Most likely, you only have 6 months to live." The guy was in disbelief. Shocked! When he composed himself he asked the doctor in desperation what he could do. "Any treatments? Any specialists? There has to be something I can do!" The doctor said, "well it's pretty advanced. Are you religious?" The man answered, he hasn't ever been that much of a believer. The doctor said, "I would suggest you join the Mormon church. Get involved. I mean REALLY get engaged. Do all you can and volunteer for everything you can possibly do as member of a local Mormon church." The man asked, "will this extend my life?" Doc says: No, but it will be the longest 6 fucking months of your entire life.

[@bryanteresabushar8294]

Funny😅🤣😂

[@foxibot]

Lol that’s great.

[@pansprayers]

Unfortunately, it's so true, too. The stories I could tell you about my FIL's last three months, and my MIL holding five different callings during that time when we KNEW he was going to die. Still pissed off, sixteen years later, and she's STILL IN.

[@davidsandall-hill1695]

What a beautiful family!! As a former Mormon and a gay man this podcast topic touched my soul and I shed many tears. Thank you all for sharing your light and your journey. I am a neighbor from Tacoma, Washington, and I’m so happy that you all made the journey to your own truth. God bless you all!!! Love and light!!!! 💖💖💖💖

[@SandiNurnberger]

Thank you so much for sharing your stories. Your sons are amazing as I am sure your other children are too. What a great learning experience to hear about the submarines and how all that works. Thank you for your service to our country and to your wife for holding it all together. ❤❤ Wishing you well on your journey away from the church.

[@gavinwhite5071]

I know this is so much later than when it was posted, But i really appreciate hearing this story. Kelly and Heather's kids are literally my kids cousins' cousins, so it helps me understand some family dynamics, especially as I watched Kelly's TBM younger brother deal with him leaving the church, and have also had to talk to him about my own issues with the church that have led to me distancing myself from it.

[@poshdaniela]

Oh wow! The way he responded to his son coming out made me cry! Amazing story of love!

[@marleymae6746]

I think this may be my favorite Mormon Stories podcast of all time. Thanks for keeping it real.

[@raigenhuss7030]

If I find a man who loves me half as much as Kelly loves Heather, I will consider myself a lucky woman. What a tender hearted man and amazing father.

[@theMMAdhatter]

Thank you to the entire Mormon Stories production team, and especially to the Laing family, for sharing such a dynamic and powerful story. To be perfectly frank, I primarily gave this episode a shot because I confused Kelly with Rob from the bishop panel of ep. 1862 - another Seattle-area TMB associated with submarines (aaaand now that I review that episode, I see that Kelly was mentioned!) But now, in spite of the confusion, this episode has become one of my favorites. I put it on while packing up to move, but wound up having to take multiple breaks to just _sob_ with my full chest. As a never-mo who grew up in the Seattle area, listening to this episode two years after its release, the least I can do is express my deep appreciation for the heartfelt information conveyed by these four strong, thoughtful people!

[@kellylaing7650]

Thank you for your heartfelt comments. John just let me know about this one and I wanted to specifically reach out and say thank you! Too bad you are moving from Seattle. If you are ever back, it would be nice to get coffee together.

[@lisagrace6471]

@theMMAdhatter I hope you saw Kelly's reply !

[@deninejackson2316]

I love this family. Their story is so important to hear.

[@_studioklara]

I think it's so clear that Heather and Kelly really look at their children like full people, that have their own choice, opinion and are equal to adults. Adults should guide not decide. I think so many parents think their kids should just obey and don't think about how they can emotionally grow. Heather and Kelly clearly do think about that!!

[@ritag6341]

It took me several days to get through all 3 parts, but I fell in love with this family & my heart broke for them but I also felt excitement for them that they are now free from the cult. I am a Christian, but we do not have man telling us what to do. We chose the Bible to follow. It is our own personal relationship with Christ that we ourselves are responsible for, not man. I do believe LDS teaches some great things for personal daily life living development, but answering to men & let them judge you & tell you if you are worthy enough to do this or that is uncalled for. I'm glad you are out & I'm sure it was hard because it was such a big part of your life so long. I love how you love unconditionally. That is how Christ calls us to love, unconditionally. You are a sweet family. Stay strong, continue healing for yourself, and God bless!🙂😍❤

[@margiez6002]

This brave family are true heroes. Thank you for this interview.

[@tball1003]

I love stories like this. Because they validate my choices and feelings. My family has gone through very similar things when we had our daughter now son come out as transgender. Much love to this family.

[@zemejal]

What a journey! Thank you so much for sharing your stories!

[@KimberlyShanley]

I LOVE this family! Your love and acceptance of each other is epic. I recently left a high demand high control church and it is a whole new world! Keep on going and loving.❤

[@nellie1rene642]

Best Mormon stories series ever! in love with this family, their stories and their very apparent love for each other come what may ❤ a little sad it took me 2 yrs to find this one!

[@jerushawoodward7687]

Such an important, heartwarming, thought provoking and powerful series of episodes. Wow. Thank you to the Laing family for your openness and vulnerability. Thank you for sharing your story.

[@trekpac2]

John, you have a lifetime of reinterviewing all of the great people you already have interviewed.

[@PostMormonParenting]

Thank you so much for sharing your story. This was gut-wrenching to listen to. I’m so glad you are all still here with us. ❤️

[@RandyAndy7373]

Its always a very special moment, when you realize that the attitude and behaviour of a person (in this case the father of two gay children) is so much closer to Jesus than the formal doctrines of a certain sect. Well done! Your children are blessed with perfect parents🎉❤❤❤. Pretty sure you will all be raised by the Lord. Luv you all!❤❤

[@annamarie7339]

Beautiful family! Thank you for sharing your story! It’s so validating when other TBMs come to the same conclusions about Mormon History. My husband and I said the same thing after a years long study of church history~ “Holy Crap! We’ve been duped!” So much shock and pain and anger, but that’s starting to fade now and I look forward to our future without the lies, and with a focus on loving others and forging a new spiritual path.❤️Thanks again everyone! So good!

[@elainechester4756]

The podcasts with this great family was awesome. I shed many tears hearing your journey. Thanks for the strength you gave me to leave for sure.

[@LanceClark7]

Thank you so much for sharing your story. What an inspiring family. I identify so much with how you were raised, Kelly. I found myself getting pretty emotional processing these episodes.

[@hturt4]

Love love love the Laings! Would love to meet and hug them one day. Beautiful humans. ❤️🙏🏼

[@foxibot]

It’s heartbreaking to see them so pressured by their church and hear them say the Mormon church will suck all your time and talents out of you, where you have no time for your family or marriage.

[@paulgerry2464]

I do understand. Your family is a great example of opening your minds, accepting truth, and loving your children for who they are. I wish Briton and Mason the best. You put them above the mindless craziness of those who will not truly understand the real truth of our fellow LGBTQ humankind. Good luck to all your family.

[@phoebecaroline7025]

Best story I’ve seen so far. Such an amazing family! I hope you can do an interview/update on them I’d love to see where they are at now!! ❤

[@ward26102]

I agree, greatest podcast ever. Your best. I'm not watching them in order but I'm watching all of them. I'm not ex-mormon or any other denomination but I love these human stories about people finding their way. I love this family and feel a connection to the Commander because I'm a retired Army officer. And I'm a humanist, progressive, liberal on social issues... and that's unfortunately not common in the military.

[@lorrainecowles9640]

Man oh man. I really love listening to you guys!! It’s been a great listen. Listening while I work on the podcast. Listening to you guys on the treadmill from your tube!! Amazing family! Thank you!

[@marlospaula8447]

I just finished watching all three parts and I am just astounded at the strength of this family! I am Brazilian, but I did live for a while in the U.S. - in Rexburg, Idaho, of all places - so I am somewhat familiar with all the issues discussed in these videos. Mr. Laing is an example of what used to be called a Real Man, and I mean that in the most respectful way. He inspired me to become a better man myself, and I am indebted to him for that. Mrs. Laing is the ideal mother and wife, what a awe-inspiring couple. And their children are just what one would expect from such an enlightened pair!

[@drbobdrake]

Years ago I interviewed for a job at Southern Utah State in Cedar City at my own considerable expense (from Miami) and was told by the department head I had the job, but the Mormon half + 1 of the committee voted against me, I later learned, because I was 32 and single. Anyone over 27 and unmarried is considered “suspect” of being gay. Two years later the chosen Mormon candidate was deemed unacceptable and I reapplied and was reinvited. Thankfully I had found another job.

[@lisagrace6471]

Wow, yikes.

[@bryanteresabushar8294]

Much love to Kelly & Heather & their family. Britton & Mason, you both made me smile, cry & feel incredible gratitude for what lies ahead for your lives. Love to Quincy & Ashley too.

[@foxibot]

I’m laughing at Heather said she tends to push down bad feelings. I think that’s because Mormon women are taught to do that. It was cute, I’m not criticizing her. I get it, it’s a way to survive. These people are sweet, like many ex Mormons I hope though they have been disappointed and lied to by the church they don’t lose that sweetness. And don’t let this make them jaded. Many seem to still believe in God, they just don’t believe in the fake church dogma anymore.

[@DallasLL]

You served your maker well, you loved each other and you loved the children you brought into the world ❤❤❤

[@jasonhamm8809]

Kelly, you guys have an inspiring family that is an example to us all.

[@Syeraru]

This family is so loving and trusting, it's amazing when a parent can take their child at face value, or their partner, especially while still in a high demand religion.

[@MB-wz3xk]

Go, Laing family! You're doing great on your journey. Just imagine where you'll be in another year. ❤️

[@Jamama4]

Thank you for your testimony. I experienced the same sense of betrayal, feeling duped, disbelief when I saw Catholicism as a sham. They aligned against my son for other reasons. . I couldn't do it. It cost me everything. This couple gave me shivers. I wish I had done as well as they did. I am trying to do better with all my ❤ now.

[@rocktheboatpaul]

For the many genuine people who really loved the church, it was very hard to leave it and no words can describe that. It is painful process because we believed in it to our very core. It defined who we are. Leaving it and forced us to look at life in ways we weren't prepared for. Deconstructing ourselves and then having to figure out what the next step is. Difficult, but so worth it.

[@ssrose18]

Thank you for sharing your story! As a military spouse who's lived in similar areas and being married to a very masculine man I so relate to your story. Thank you!

[@raigenhuss7030]

You two are to thank for those beautiful boys still being with us on this earth. This is how all parents should be.

[@someonecool9419]

The love this man has for his wife... makes me swoon. 🤣

[@deirdrebarkley9800]

Wow I watched the whole interview of the Laing family and I loved it!!!! I’m not mormon but I do have two adult children who are gay. I’ve always known in my heart that you are born that way and it’s not a choice.

[@blakeryder6060]

This is the best podcast ever!

[@foxibot]

These parents are wonderful, they put the love of their children above everything else. I’m proud of them, not that they need people to be, but I know it was probably extremely hard to deal with all the lifetime commitment they felt, to leave, but they made the right choice, and I suspect in hearing the father say he was exhausted and just giving giving giving, and being so exhausted and needing a break, maybe their sons helped give him the push he needed by investigating the true history of their church. Maybe it was actually a supernatural push that led him to see the truth, and see the CES letter. Since he said he was a apologist, it took several things to get him and his wife to wake up and see the truth. I’m glad that he saw the plagiarism. And anachronisms. Just the pure fiction. And that made sense to him and all the hypocrisy with polygamy. Taking other men’s wives and daughters.

[@edjarrett3164]

I watched this video three times and also watched the accompanying video of their two gay sons who are awesome. The navy commander was amazing. He was all about his family no matter what. He also separated from the Mormon Church which had provided guidance for many years. His journey started about how his gay sons would lead a fulfilling life under the church. His separation from the Mormon Church says more about his character than the proselytizing of the Mormon church.

[@Argelius1]

Such heartbreaking and heartwarming stories.

[@sherrywoodard8562]

My grandson who lived with us for 10 years and was dating girls suddenly professed to be gay . It was such a shock - since I caught him a few times with the bedroom door locked because he had a girl in his room. He’s definitely a weird kind of gay - he likes both men and women but he dresses very strange (we’re in our 70’s and grew up in another world where gay was a girls name)! Its g eating used to this new world- I’m sure there were gay kids going to my high school - but my mom said they just had more female genes than some - when we heard Rock Hudson was gay my mom almost died . And we learned gay was two people of the same sex having sex! Shocked! But I finally came to realize they are just people,who live a different life style than we do . And that’s OK . I’m not happy on the churches decision to not let gay people do temple work - so many have gone in missions . Snd making them feel uncomfortable in church meetings. My designer was asked to leave sacrament meeting because she smelled like smoke - she smokes but was trying to get beck to church . She found s religion that accepted people in any situation. Lots of homeless go there. They serve lunch - and coffee after the meeting ! It was an eye opener for me ! The church service was so spiritual I cried - and yet very weird compared to our reverent meetings. I drink coffee now - I don’t believe I’m going to hell for that

[@sherrywoodard8562]

My daughter - not my designer - was asked to leave the church meeting because she smelled like smoke

[@foxibot]

It gives me the creeps when I hear don’t criticize “the brethren” because it sounds like a cult, and a scary one! You have your own critical thinking mind and ability. Don’t let some group of men make decisions for you.

[@hwsepp]

Judy and I love the Laing family no matter what life decisions they make! We were so glad to know them here in GA when they were here. Kelly, how about another cribbage lesson? Our very best wishes to the entire family!

[@Britbec]

Thank you so much for this incredible story! Really needed this, this week.

[@littlezentz]

This family makes it so easy to make ultimate decisions about TRUTH. They have so much awesomeness, I honestly do not think I could handle knowing them. LOL I sure do enjoy learning from them.

[@chiusacan18754]

OMG! this couples are taking about my experiernces as High Priest, Genealogical Leader, and more. Working Fulltime, dealing with three daughters problems, and my marriiage coming to the end. Twice I came with severe depression, that brought me to 293 lbs. and I just wanted to die. Thank you for exposing the truth of what Mormonism does to individuals and families. It's nausated and very sad!

[@sanachristian4577]

I’m thankful for the 13th article of faith. My dad, raised Christian Science, LDS convert, taught me to take it seriously and literally. Sundays found me with my friends, visiting their church, then I’d go to mine that same day. A bunch of us LDS kids in high school were members of the Presbyterian Youth Choir. We all celebrated Jesus. I’ve studied and gleaned truths in many good books. The Bible. Torah. Bhagavad-Gita. The words of Baha’Ola. I love hearing each person’s religion. For as many humans, there are beliefs, and stars in the skies. I feast on the most precious thing of all: LOVE!!! “One planet. One people. Please, God.” Jesus was not kidding when He said the kingdom of God is within you! Mary Baker Eddy. Anne Hutchinson. Antinomians. If they teach lovingkindness, I love it!

[@ew5301]

If that isn’t the cutest family ever then I don’t know what is. You guys are absolutely adorable! Britton- I’ve been there (not gay, not Mormon but suicidal). It’s a scary place and I’m glad you’re here today. Mason- stay sassy and stay confident- you are so stinking cute!

[@carolynsherman3439]

Good for you guys. So happy your family and truth is first for you.

[@rocky02524]

wow, such a powerful episode. nothing but respect and love for this family.

[@sanachristian4577]

These kids have turned out GREAT. Loving and kind. They are each one a blessing. God does not lie. And we puny humans are weak. We cannot handle so much crap. Hanging on to God, we receive grace to acknowledge that we cannot do this alone. It can take a village to raise a child. And it can take guts to say no to the church. God wants us to grow and become better. At whatever. However. Cheers to this loving family. Stay in love. Not in some boat. Xxxooo

[@sanachristian4577]

God does NOT lie. Haha! I’m sorry I didn’t proofread before I hit send.

[@Gioli565]

Inspiring family. Love them all. Truly good, good people.

[@ashhosek]

Such a beautiful family.

[@monicaenriquez8643]

Your podcast is true for all religious institutions! Thank you John Dellen! God bless this couple and thank you for your service! My son-in-law retired from the USMC 3 years ago! He is married to my youngest daughter and is the father of 5 of my grandchildren!

[@JessicaIulianella-d9h]

so great! so beautiful!

[@davidhowarth2680]

This Coulple are a delightful example of the Gospel in action.

[@Russells2323]

What would life be like if we were not programmed as children?

[@talonyoung6160]

Kelly should run for Congress or Senate! As a Democrat!

[@lorenafigueroa8378]

Amazing couple!! God blessed them and all the family. Mason & Britt make me cry, just wonderful, well worth all the hours listening this podcast. Blessings.

[@josiedimick3105]

John has cracked up a couple times during this series and it honestly just instantly makes me crack up too. I don’t remember the first time but in this part three when she brought up the submarines 😂 😂 too funny

[@dynastydriven]

That got me laughing so hard! 🤣 hilarious!!

[@lenkajf7816]

52:25 hilarious :D

[@josiedimick3105]

@@lenkajf7816 HILARIOUS! I watched several times originally and now I’m watching again now that you commented 😂 it’s because it’s such a genuine laugh!

[@claudemelancon5039]

As a fellow submariner, Carah's question about the barges was the ultimate 🎤-drop moment, and Kelly's reaction and response were priceless.

[@DeborahKathleen1]

[@carolynsherman3439]

Loved this family’s story

[@ryananderson845]

What an awesome family. So proud of you all.

[@jobinsmith4116]

Is there another video of the discussion with the sons?

[@ritag6341]

It is a 3 part episode with this family.

[@jobinsmith4116]

@@ritag6341 I found it !

[@16jcstratton]

I love this stories and powerful words! Thank you John! This is sooo awesome family.. I want to share someone and this is really touch in our heart.. thanks again John :)

[@joeblo7703]

There are a couple families a little south of bremerton (in Gig Harbor) that also want to be part of the bremerton rescue! Haha

[@davidrobinson8470]

This family is amazing. I hope they have dodged the bullet. I feel so sorry for the dad; he realizes what he built and how close it came to falling down, shattering into pieces. God help them, and I mean that!

[@amandalunt4325]

Beautiful to see the love in your eyes as you listen to and speak of each other. 💓 Thank you for sharing your stories.

[@Mrs_Solis]

Just love ❤❤❤

[@phoebecaroline7025]

What is Jerry and Julie Johnson’s Mormon story episode titled? Cant find it but really want to watch after this!

[@kathrynsmith4176]

I was not raised Mormon, but always admired the lifestyle because we share like ideals and family values. However, since moving from Hawaii to SLC, I have learned so much more about the faith. From the outside, the families appear perfect. But, it saddens me to learn of the immense pressure and judgment placed upon members by church doctrine and its leaders. It’s a culture of SHAME, like Asian cultures and it’s DAMAGING. What about unconditional love that mirrors God’s love?? I once heard a Mormon say, “If it’s this difficult to get to heaven, I’d rather just go to hell!” The church DRAINS it’s committed members both emotionally and physically. No wonder it’s SO rich!! Unpaid and unprofessional members are guilt tripped leading. I think the PROPHET needs a REVELATION to change all that!!

[@elencosta4659]

Thank you so much!❤

[@lisagrace6471]

This guy's anger over the truth claims is my spirit animal.

[@misspatti3988]

❤❤❤beautiful family, thank you❤️❤️❤️

[@rikmorel4870]

I've never been Mormon but I value stories like this and admire the people who had the courage to find the truth and live it. God is not afraid of logic or questioning and welcomes critical thinking and an open mind. I think the real issue with anyone who would object to this is that of control. J.S. was a charlatan and built his empire on not questioning him or the Brethren or apostles or really anyone in leadership because if you question too much and have an open mind, you're bound to discover what's true and what's not. An open mind is anathema to a religion that requires unquestioning acceptance of their faith. I'm really happy things worked out well for this family. We do need more families like this and I love how they still believe that in the end it's really about loving our fellow human beings no matter who they are and making the world a better place, a viewpoint that many if not most Christian denominations sadly don't have. As it's written: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. ' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbour as yourself." There are no conditions or requirements on loving your neighbour - there is no 'love your neighbour only if they are good, just, moral, respectable, wear a suit, attend church......'.

[@littlezentz]

I went to vacation bible school (not sure if that is what they called it)at the Reorganized Church of LDS, I lived 2.5 years in Utah, once again met up with orthodox neighbors not once but twice in my journeys. I used to feel so strange that none of these folks ever tried to share their "gospel" or "get me baptized" yet I knew I mattered to them. Was I not worthy? or were they keeping me aside as someone to trust.

[@TonyandSusie-MillersontheMove]

You say shipmen but really going back to masterbation there seamen👀

[@lisagrace6471]

Mason!!!! It has been 3 years, buddy! I want to hear your update interview now! Would love everyone's.

[@sophiakaster1176]

What an inspiring family of LOVE AND SUPPORT! THANK YOU!

[@teemarie5478]

I’m not Mormon but their story is amazing. I’m so glad that they got out, it’s toxic for families. All churches can be good but they can be just as bad.

[@merricat3025]

His dad engaged to his therapist within weeks of his wife's death!! That is so disturbing. His father sounds like a jerk(being nice). The therapist should lose her license.