MORTARION MEETS THE EMPEROR! BIRTH OF A HATRED?

Hi all Wolf Lord Rho here!
Today we continue Mortarion week! And today we dive into the mind of the Primarch, as he is reunited with his father... The Emperor of Mankind! Just what were the thoughts racing through the Death Lords mind...
Spoiler Warning to begin the events we are discussing today are from the Horus Heresy novel "The Buried Dagger" by James Swallow. As always i really recommend you read the story for yourself first, as that's the best way to enjoy the lore, for yourself. Not only that we help to support the great games workshop and black library because without them we don't have this amazing lore to talk about! Link: www.blacklibra...
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Games Workshop does not endorse or support this video. All views and opinions expressed in this video belong to Wolf Lord Rho and in no way reflect the views or opinions of Games Workshop Ltd.
Music belongs to Wolf Lord Rho.

[@Nilcrants2]

"Where was the Emperor when the Westfold fell?!" We're just gonna let that slide? okay

[@Duppyman695]

Where was Gondor when....!

[@DaengieDraws]

Holy shit, nice catch!

[@iimperalusii380]

He slipped that one in there.

[@brockwilkie6022]

@@Duppyman695 IDK did Theoden actually ask for help? Maybe they were fighting a much greater foe on a completely front, lol.

[@Duppyman695]

@@brockwilkie6022 I dont know if Theoden knew if he asked for help or not, he was under the White Wizards spell!

[@darksoul1381]

"Forget no insult, my sons, as I have never forgotten those of my father, of the Emperor, nor those of Horus. Forgive no slight or grievance. Hold your bitterness deep within, and there let it fester. Let it roil and squirm and churn, until you are filled with bile so poisonous that all you touch falls to ruin. Thus shall you serve Nurgle best. Thus shall you spread his virulent gifts across the false Imperium, and watch its final rotting..." *So much salt*

[@Booyaka9000]

It's 2:43am, getting tired, thinking about going to bed. **Wolf Lord Rho drops a Mortarion video** Me: "Okay, 3:15am crash time it is..."

[@sterasigma8734]

I guess the same description Guilliman used on Angron applies to Mortarion somewhat as well: too trapped in past trauma and pain to ever move on and become better versions of themselves. The Emperor does care, but Mortarion had been too insistent in wallowing in his past to see any gesture of concern and fatherly love as anything but acts of condescension. The toxic mixture of pride and self-loathing stemmed from past failures and hypocrisy stymied any possible growth in Mortarion, and now all Mortarion can feel about his father is loathing and fear.

[@oxyuran5998]

From what I know Mortarion and Perturabo were flawed in their character and that's why they defied the emperor. Angron before the butchers nails was one of the most human primarchs and his story is a real tragedy as is Magnus'.

[@oxyuran5998]

@@pyerack Mortarion for sure is arrogant, with Perturabo I got more of a vibe of deep seated insecurity with massive daddy issues. Lorgar in my eyes is just a spineless creature who needs someone to worship and defines himself via this worship. Basically, as long as he can tell himself "I'm a good little sheep in the flock" he doesn't care what it takes to stay part of that flock...

[@user-wj4dy2uh2h]

Perturabo didn't like being a primarch. He wanted to stay in Olympia and be an architect or a statesman. Instead he gets caught up in a seemingly endless Great Crusade with many of the other primarchs treating him and his legion as brainless mud diggers. He saw no way out of this except to kill the Emperor

[@oxyuran5998]

@@user-wj4dy2uh2h true, he never wanted the whole war and shit, but throwing a tantrum like a petulant little child isn't exactly the mark of a solid character. As I said, highly insecure with massive daddy issues.

[@MandoMTL]

@@user-wj4dy2uh2h He was shown to prefer being locked up with his schematics even in his adopted father's care.

[@InquisitorFrost]

Mortarion couldn't have beaten the Over Lord, he was allowing his pride to be more important then the people he claimed to care about.

[@darkinnovator2479]

Pride is the bane of a great many Primarchs.

[@adamplentl5588]

@@darkinnovator2479 like all of them tbh

[@markcoroneos7811]

@@adamplentl5588 when was sanguinius too proud?

[@adamplentl5588]

@@markcoroneos7811 like all of them tbh except Sanguinius*

[@AManNamedKelly]

Sanguinius kept the "Red Thirst" a secret due to pride. He didn't want his brothers to know of his gene seed's defect.

[@spacedoubt15]

Imagine a scenario where instead of slaying the overlord himself, the Emperor had arrived, cleared the air of poisons, and given Mortarion his sword, allowing him to vanquish his foe without losing face. It teaches the same lesson but without depriving Mortarion of his pride. That defiance is not enough to win some battles. That personal perseverance is not wasted or lessened when the burden is shared. And that even if Mortarion lost his bet to the Emperor, that he will stand with him as an ally, not a new oppressor with a different face.

[@jackp492]

I like that sentiment something I need to remember

[@Ashtor1337]

Or a tool can stop being an asshole and get his job done. A primarch can fulfill his duty to his creator. A son can follow his father's direction. A solder can follow orders. Pride? Ha. Billions dead because of pride.

[@fedupN]

Dude took a bet and lost. Morty only took that bet because he couldn't get his pride out of the way. The Emperor had promised salvation. THE END to the hellish overlords. Mortarion should have just said "Cool, thanks" and moved the hell on.

[@chedydanza4704]

Well you are right! Specially if we know emperor kinda knows the future. So why wouldn’t he choose the way where morty is not being a little bitch turning to the moth

[@nikik5567]

@@pyerack that’s my thought. Yes the emperor could’ve done the above. But mortarian was gonna despise ANY help from from him. Doesn’t matter how little help it was.

[@TheFaulkned]

I think the Emperor's foresight told him how it would turn out. So he wasn't gambling with losing his primarch. He used this moment to teach him how great he was he wasn't perfect and that no one can go alone in the galaxy. A hard lesson but one Mortarion had to learn.

[@iangreenwood5954]

Yeah, too bad the big E’s ability to self reflect was non existent :(.

[@domenicoazzia4153]

Alas, he didn't lear at all.

[@fallenknighttyler8695]

A part of me believes that if the Emperor incapacitated the overlord and let Mortarion kill him he probably could have won Mortarions loyalty, but considering how stubborn he is probably not

[@headlibrarian1996]

"Where were you?" is an outrageously unreasonable question.

[@Demongordon]

Is unreasonable but understandable, for Mortarium the Emperor is that one absent father that only show up when you are about to get rich. Bringing gifts when the times are "good" and nonwhere when they are struggling.

[@R0m0n3]

@@Demongordon how was he 'getting rich' it's like getting a job at the cornerstore after a life of poverty and Bill Gates comes up saying he's your dad.

[@headlibrarian1996]

@@Demongordon He's blaming the Emperor for making a deliberate choice to be absent, but it's pure dark fantasy. It's rather like blaming your father for being absent while he's a POW in Vietnam. It's a sick, unmerited blame.

[@Demongordon]

@@headlibrarian1996 @R0m0n3 That is what we know not what Mortarium know. For him The Emperor is a stranger that showed up when he was going to finish his greatest dream of world liberation, even if in the grand scheme of things is but a small stuff compared with the Imperium. Talking that he was his father and that he need him to do stuff for him, and promised that he in fact super powerful somehwere else called Imperium and totattly didn't just drop him into the Necromancer Leader arms, for reasons. Mortarium had all reason to be suspricous, for the objectives of this alien man is complete a mystery and at least here on Barbarus he has the home advantage if anything goes bad, if he goes with this dude he will be at his mercy on his ship. Is unreasonable is that the emperor have to bear the blame for not being there when he need it the most, but is equally unreasonable to expect that he wouldn't resent him when he didn't have magic powers like some of the others and he got the short end of the stick on homeworld, slight better than angron and curze.

[@R0m0n3]

@@Demongordon it would apply if the hypothetical child didn't know who Bill Gates was..

[@Duppyman695]

I think Mortarion was 'before his fall to Nurgle' one of the most Human of the Primarchs, at odds with choices and decisions.

[@austinjohnson6642]

He might be my favorite primarch

[@nikkorello]

None of the Primarchs has almost no humanity in him. They are way above these petty human values and ideas, they don t really care about humanity they see plain humans as ants under their boots. Only one of them is really a humanitarian, only one of them really cares about life and this is not Mortarion of course, never was. That Primarch is Vulcan and yes everyone can see the irony here, one of the most terryfing in stature and looks Primarch, one of the most brutal and inhuman in combat is really the one most human in his heart and spirit of them all. He is the only Primarch that inherited these genes from his father's pool that affect and create emotions such as compassion, consciousness, mercy and respect for life and living beings. Perhaps he is not the perfect leader, politician or perfect warrior by far, he is not at all the most good looking or most respected but he is for sure the most human and good hearted of them all, and the Big E always knew that and always was counting on these traits of Vulcan's personality and soul because Emperor had many sides and traits in his personality but love for humanity was his biggest and best side of his heart.

[@Duppyman695]

@@nikkorello I disagree there are 'Shreds' of Humanity in all of them, finding it and keeping it within the Grim Darkness of the far future is another story!

[@nikkorello]

@@Duppyman695 I speak from the result of their lifetime, not for the possible gene potential of each one of them had by their birth. Only one of them really followed the path of humanity through his life and his deeds speak of him. Take them one by one and search through all of their lifetimes, their thoughts, deeds and actions and you ll see that I am correct. They all decline at some point, some faster than others from any possible human trait they could have developed, and some of them commit monstrosities or others commit doubtful and divided acts against humanity. Take book by book, page by page and read and search and you ll see that all of them even Guilliman and Dorn in some point commited such actions that had too heavy cost in human lifes or for the future of humanity.

[@Duppyman695]

@@nikkorello I know what your saying, remember I did say before Morty fell to chaos, by choosing to help the people of barbarus I believe he showed an aspect of humanity, I think they all did at one time or another but couldnt hold on to it!

[@firstlastname2580]

I'm not saying I agree, I'm just saying I understand Morty being salty when the Big E was kill stealing his 1v1.

[@yeoldchief7711]

I think getting Mortarian on board was always going to be tough, it even took Nurgle a lot to break him. Doubt it could have gone any other way in the end.

[@alexandyrbradwell8827]

It gave me goosebumps when Wolf Lord said that the Emperor just sat there and listened to Corax's stories, like it's a dad seeing his son after his son came back from a trip he went on, I love it.

[@mike1043]

All I know is that Wolf Lord Rho is always very appreciative for the virtual gift voucher.

[@thecommentguy9380]

to be honest, i think the emperor could have used his power to shield mortarion from the poison and let him claim his victory

[@normtrooper4392]

If mortarion ever found out, it would no doubt cause him to resent the emperor still

[@thecommentguy9380]

@@normtrooper4392 OR he would have some respect for the emperor for letting him have his way.

[@normtrooper4392]

@@thecommentguy9380 I think he might find it worse that he thought he did it by himself but was secretly helped the whole time. It's just my opinion

[@bobbyheisler6558]

The Emperor was probably just starting to get into efficiency mode with the Primarchs at this point. Mortarion should be glad he wasnt just straight up beamed onto the Emperors ship like Angron.

[@Dadecorban]

@@normtrooper4392 no chance of that, thank the Emperor there were no unstable psyker primarchs with foretelling

[@olihoisl7546]

I really like mortarion. If you look at him he is a very human Charakter. And unlike Magnus or guilleman his gift was close to a mockery: he got resistance to poison as a primarch. Who are all pretty much immune to poison except the most toxic things in the Galaxy.

[@bobbyrabii2402]

I always thought his gift wasnt poison resistance but straight up so much endurance he could outlast anyone.

[@alpharius365]

Woot!! Was just feeling bored at work. See this uploaded. It's a good day.

[@user-cn1zn4gr7f]

I am stealing woot. Cheers

[@alpharius365]

@@user-cn1zn4gr7f No no no. That's my woot. I'd like to keep it. I offer to you instead a woo-hoo as sacrifice.

[@trajanfidelis1532]

If he wasn't such a bitter contrarian he could have been on par with vulcan in his dedication to free humanity...ok maybe not vulcan but you get the idea

[@-VOR]

You clearly missed the lesson in his character

[@darkinnovator2479]

The Emperor saves his life, Mortarion roars "Kill stealer", and the Emperor just raises an eyebrow and snorts. But yes, Mortarion should have taken the knee and begged his father to help them all. This is also during a time when the Second Primarch was still around, among his brothers. He is but another Primarch, albeit from the lips of Fulgrim of all people, who also has the flaw of arrogance.

[@gallopingoctopus1364]

You can't understand the Emperors emotions until you are a dad. He is happy to see his son, but regretful of all the evil Mortarian has and will endure. You are both overjoyed to have a child, but you have your regrets too.

[@monsterno.definablenever.3484]

13:24 Yes, EXACTLY! No matter WHAT happens, The Emporer is ALWAYS, STILL, HUMAN.

[@e21big]

Also given how he dealth with Angron, Mort should be happy he was given the chances at all

[@philippek96]

Mortarion is the best. I hope games workshop redeems the deathlord and makes him fight nurgle.

[@ConfusedGuardsman]

If written properly, it would certainly be interesting...

[@emperorconstantine1.361]

I would love to have pre-heresy books about Mortarian and the Death Guard as they are my favorite pre-heresy legion.

[@philippek96]

best pre heresy is flight of eisenstein and Horus is rising, Mortarion values Nathaniell garro veary high. then when he turned into a chaos prince. "Burried Dagger". Mortarion reflects his decision and what he should do, He does not like Horus nor the Emperor but he loves his world and his legion. Wolf rho must have read Burried dagger aswell.

[@brownehawk7744]

Book 54...... I stop buying the books at 32, was starting to feel like I was being milked for money. Glad they are bringing the books to a close and also advancing the 40k timeline.

[@gehteuchnixan3052]

Kinda interesting to see the similatities of when Mortarion faced the Overlord to when Guilliman faced Demon Mortarion. Might have given the latter a bit of a fladhback, causing some weird memories and fears. After all, he had called out to the Empereror himself before and saw the spreader of disease and poison struck down with one swing. I'm wondering if he may have expected the same when he saw his brother do that.

[@thatotherguy8138]

The more I watch these videos, the more I think that the Emperor intended for many of the Primarchs to fall right from the start. That he didn't intend for 20 Primarchs to survive, but thought that or so was a better number once the Crusade was over. I think that the Emperor was expecting to have a Loyalist Primarch in Mortarion, but once he met Mortarian in the flesh, he knew that Mortarian was going to be one of the ones to fall and the Emperor was unhappy about it. (It also would help explain his brutal recovery of Angron - after coming across Mortarion in the same kind of situation, he didn't even bother to give Angron the same opportunity as Mortarian to fail and be saved. Angron was going to fall - he NEEDED to fall due to the Nails - didn't matter if he gave Angron a reason to fall or not, just get him out, give him his legion and get on with it. Also why he was so willing to spend so much time with Corvus - Corvus was finally a Primarch who he was certain would NOT fall. Six Straight either Falling or unknown (Jaghatai) Primarchs, and now one who is absolutely going to be Loyal) Note: I'm not certain if he intended them to REBEL against him, though I think that was always considered a significant possibility so he wanted to stack the odds in his favour. Horus, Dorn, Russ, Vulkan, Fulgrim, Lion, Sanguinius, Guilliman and Corax all seemed to be the ones he WANTED to stay loyal and survive. Possibly Magnus, though I think he more wanted Magnus to take over the Psyker duties rather than anything else. The rest he could afford to lose AFTER the Crusade and when it came time to build the Empire in Peacetime. Then Chaos threw a wrench into all of his plans and things didn't go the way he intended or planned for.

[@Ashtor1337]

The thing is he offered Angron an army and it was turned down. Angron wanted death.

[@Tuberuser187]

To me the Emperor badly mishandled the whole thing, forcing Mortarion into the Challenge where he instantly felt he had to go prove himself even though it was impossible. After the "where were you?" he should have said, "I'm sorry I couldn't find you and reach you sooner but now, please I am here to offer the help and aid my Son has deserved all this time" then just spent some time with him, talking about Barbarus and his life, got Mortarian a suit of power armour and weapons, If he tried to refuse the "charity" the Emperor could say "its not charity, you are going to have to earn them by killing the Overlord and freeing your people". It avoids damaging Mortarians pride and ego and prepares him for the fight, the Emperor could even go with him but not take out the overlord. Once its done the Emperor can say "you did it, you freed your people from this monster, you saved them... But... my Son there are countless other worlds in the grip of Tyrants and monsters, please come with me and free those people too". The challenge was too blunt, to ego puncturing and manipulative. For someone who is supposed to be the greatest Human Statesman an diplomat ever he doesn't s eem very good at times.

[@NueThunderKing]

I think the Emps knew whatever he did, Mortarion would surely find a flaw to be mad at. So he did as he did because it was the less time and energy consuming thing to do. Mortarion was a little bitch, through and through.

[@Ashtor1337]

Or Morty could stop acting like a bitch and be a leader. He was offered everything and still threw a tantrum. He tried and failed. Grow up.

[@matthewvektrax9922]

The Emperor isn't perfect

[@LordSgtSavy]

Can you imagine if mortarion had won? How proud the Emperor would have been? The shouts of joy? Sharing in the victory, lifting him up above his head as he lays gasping for air. But roaring the praises to the heavens? I think the emperor would have been glad to leave his world to his son for a while. Their relationship would have been on a whole new foot. A king respecting a king, supporting his son. I have no doubt that after not long mortarion would gladly seek out the emperor as an ally for the benefit of his people and would have done so to a warm and proud welcome. Mortarion would give his own sons the opportunity for glory and life instead of death on their dying world. I bet the Emperor was rooting for his son as much as he could even if it would break his heart to leave him there but i think their relationship would have been impossibly different if he had had the strength to win the victory for himself.

[@spencerherron5539]

I like the idea of one of the lost primarchs secretly having been raised by Eldari on a maiden world and going rogue due to a conflict of interest between the two races.

[@piratemagetjalf6477]

Wow. Not so much for the narration - which is just as awesome as usual - but for the lightning in the background of the house-of-black-and-white-style wall of faces. That war incredibly... atmospheric. No pun intended.

[@seymourfields3613]

It's the greatest of men that try to do on their own, and don't turn to Daddy until they fail. And then there's Mortarion.

[@BladeMaster117]

Hey Rho, curious idea for a video maybe. What do you think would have happened if the planets that Primacrchs landed on were swapped? For example do you think things would have been different if Sanguinius landed in place of Angron?

[@ConfusedGuardsman]

Yeah, he would have probably conquered the planet. The latent rage would have been able to drive him just as far if not farther than Angron. Alternatively, he could have grown up in a high rider household. I could easily see a powerful high rider taking in a baby that looks like an angel. That could have been interesting.

[@____________838]

Imagine Sanguinius had been adopted by a High Rider, only to cry tears of blood at seeing his first gladiatorial match.

[@ConfusedGuardsman]

@@____________838 High Riders: Why do we hear boss music?

[@monsterno.definablenever.3484]

8:39 He knows, especially at the 13th primarch, that first impressions are VERY important here.

[@mlpsh6995]

I think the author wrote the Emperor rushed in simply for some dramatic effect not because the Emperor truly cared. Remember, as we saw in with the reunion of the Emperor and Guilliman in 41st millennium, the Primarchs were tools at the end of the day.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

I guess that it will be Lanterns Light tomorrow or maybe Scars.

[@coletrain41]

11:59 You cheeky little.... Great video as always :)

[@laithsaleem580]

Mortarion gift is so perfect to fight against nurgle seems like he is in the right place right now.

[@HaggisOfDeath]

Mortarion was a broken man. From an outside perspective, it is easy to say that he should have realised the Emperor was there to help, or that he should have accepted the fact that he could not kill the overlord on his own, especially once he had succumbed to the gas. However, I know a few too many people who are depressed. They do not think clearly at all. Their minds latch on to little things that a well adjusted person wouldn't even consider. Obvious solutions to their large problems raise a whole host of issues that seem small and inconsequential to us, but are so overwhelming for them that they consider what would genuinely help them to be 'off the table'. They see hidden meanings in a lot of what others say or do, which are not there, but then allow the negative feelings to eat them up rather than asking the person for clarification and realising the other person was not trying to upset them at all. It seems clear to me that the writers were trying to relate this. That Mortarion was completely broken due to his upbringing, and that he would never perceive reality as his more well adjusted brothers might. Just as in real life, when it comes to people struggling with depression or mental trauma; very few 'normal' people understand it (despite an increasing number of them claiming to be depressed or have issues when really they are just bored or had a bad day or are temporarily feeling lonely; I truly hate our culture where people think its trendy to be a 'victim' and then try to pretend they are one, always of the 'invisible' variety like mental health issues). Mortarion is a very sad story about someone with a genuinely good heart who is broken and never able to achieve his goals because of it. He is the perfect stand in for all those whose lives turned out negatively due to depression, alcoholism, drug-addiction; and a host of other plagues that ruin us.

[@Matihood1]

I've seen people claim that if the Emperor had incapacitated the High Overlord instead of killing him, Mortarion wouldn't have grown to hate him. I'm not so sure. I think Morty would've still been very bitter that he couldn't have finished conquering his planet all on his own. Though it's all speculations, really.

[@1MoreTurn]

Seems likely. Sadly.

[@Alastair_]

Ironically Astartes most likely caused the Horus Heresy and the 10,000 years of war when she sent the Primarchs off into the warp.

[@kelman727]

I don’t think your proof reader is working.

[@____________838]

@@kelman727 Ali knows what he’s saying, but it wasn’t Astartes that sent them into the warp.

[@leonkennedy8932]

@@____________838 was erda?

[@pottermin79]

This lore is amazing I would of thought mortaren would meet his father with open arms but nay. The son asks his father where wear you father god bless the emperor this broke my heart it hit home. Been in mortaren shoes before

[@Souluntar]

This just makes mortarion more heart breaking in my opinion. I reaaaaaallly hope years down the line he gets redeemed and maybe… a primaris remake of the death guard? They’d legit be unstoppable

[@NueThunderKing]

He needs to let that stupid pride go before he is redeemed. There is a lot the Emps did wrong, but Mortarion was stupidly stubborn and that is worse.

[@kenrudd6362]

where was gondor when the westfold fell

[@blinkingred]

Defiance alone is not enough.... Looks like Morty still hasn't learned that lesson

[@beerandasmoke7960]

Nikea probably accused the Emperor of hacks right before he was killed.

[@tripplezzz4177]

The god empiere shows he’s “physicle presence” to people who need to persive it for example, there was a tech priest that saw him as an uncarring onlly drivin by logic, onlly calling he’s sons by numbers being, and sangunious when he first met the empierer he was talked to with compashion and inhumen interpratations of words yet he still under stood

[@ocadioan]

It wasn't about the people of Barbarus for Morty, it was about his pride. He doesn't even want to hear what the Imperium can offer his people. He just wants to win on his own against his hated father figure.

[@mathewfitzpatrick5645]

Didn't Perturabo also immediately recognize his father? And that one didn't exactly go great in the end.

[@Tahlmorra]

The Emperor broke his son's Pride and ended their relationship before it even began.

[@Ashtor1337]

How by saving his life? Have you read the book? Did you even watch the video? Mort had clearly lost, he was laying there dieing when The Emporer rushed into save him. He was offered help and declined it. He made a bet and lost. How about he let his pride go and do what's right for the world.

[@UncleMikeDrop]

Mortarion was behaving like a petulant child. He cared so much about vain personal glory that he was unable to look beyond himself. He failed to recognize his first duty which was to his people.

[@shaunwilson6289]

I wonder if the emperor can see there future and knows who’s going to betray him that’s why is hesitant

[@N1njaSnake]

The pattern of Mortarion overestimating his strength started there and then.

[@zach5539]

1.25 speed gets him speaking normal 🤫😂

[@CVlad92]

yes im not the only one who noticed

[@Prepelec]

i also play at that speed

[@alphagonomegarius5068]

i have a question: if mortarion had conquered most of Barbarous by the time he decided to go kill his papa, then why he just did not simply blew up the mountain with explosives?

[@giselecesconetto2558]

Simple: pride. He wanted to be the one who killed him and to one and for all to be free of this tyrant and maybe move on in his live, like some sort of clousher, yeah it is petty for a primarch but it made sense

[@alphagonomegarius5068]

@@giselecesconetto2558 kinda like an edgy(er) L'Jhonson?

[@giselecesconetto2558]

@@alphagonomegarius5068 yes in a weird way

[@MrVOxMOx]

The Emperor made that deal because he foresaw Mortarion’s failure. Big E seems to understand far more than he should, but I doubt he has any control over it, like the primarchs. He’s just been alive much longer than them, and thus has far greater perspective on the current situation. I like his interactions with his sons like this because it reinforces that he isn’t some omnipotent being and can still be surprised.

[@saitamax9688]

i would love to know about the 2 primarchs that failed but sadly we wont get info on them

[@MWH12085]

At least anytime soon. GW really skrewed that up

[@minisquigy]

We will never know about them because it would ruin the space marine experience of making your own chapters. In the early lore all 20 legions were known but they removed them to allow players to make their own lore.

[@saitamax9688]

@@minisquigy thats kinda dumb

[@nathanoneal7503]

We dont ever know the other 2, not even in old lore, there were just some eaater eggs that ended alot of real questions. * One of the Primarchs flag ships is seens in the Ramedeon area. The one campaign that jacked everyone. Assumed dead in thia campaign or renegade after attrition. * the 2nd is now assumed to be the one Malcador mentions to Rogal in a conversation. That knew of Chaos but it did very little, so it reinforced old lore he became Malice. Other then that no info is known.

[@MWH12085]

@@minisquigy That's not really the GW of today. I wouldn't be shocked they introduce them just so they can say "NO MORE HOME BREWS!!! ONLY OFFICIALLY LICENSED GW MERCH!.....also we're talking all these home brew chapters or we'll take you to court for copyright infringement.....because we don't have a choice."

[@bluepleman9359]

Mortartion get salty when the big E stole his kill

[@Ashtor1337]

It wasn't a kill steal. He had lost. He was dieing.

[@bluepleman9359]

@@Ashtor1337 yeah its is not an kill steal but base in smellyboi perspective the Big E stole the moment of his victory even he clearly saw that he couldn't win

[@loreman2803]

I think the Emperor could leave him for a while. He knows his location and his world is stable so he may have returned in disguise to check

[@Kurogane335]

I wonder if the Emperor dropped the disguises after Russ and Vulkan precisely because he realized that one some world it seemed only to entice them to defiance at first.

[@coriganbemis7144]

There's soo many dimensions or angles to regard Barbarus' "Child if Death" from - here's one I haven't seen discussed. Stolen Valor. Emp of Man put conditions on Mortarion for INEVITABLE service (aka enslavement) in the Great Crusade. Emp stile Morty's valorious victory, whether or not Morty survived his ascent to overthrow his necrotic necromancer dad. We'll never know Mortarion's true intent and choice in those moments (denial of his free and sovereign will). Pun intended here - in one fell strike, the Emp stole his son's future by denying it... forever. "I will hate you forever", Mortarion says to the Emp after slaying his surrogate father for it was then that they both knew the truth about the Emp of Man - he was a tyrant, a man who took power from others to enact his own will based on his own beliefs, benevolent or not. Mortarion represents not just the Emperor's power as is his indomitable will and and the obvious godly strength of mind and body necessary to wield it, but also the inevitable cost for doing so. Whether or not the Emp of Man is ultimately making this sacrifice of self or not is less, in terms of relevancy or clout - Mortarion is his one son who's strength and power matches his own. Then, now, and future, a living testament of his father's willingness to sacrifice his truest legacy to further his ideology of a "better future". A waking reminder of "All that Waits". Implacable, inevitable, and necessary. Mortarion's last modicum of TRUST was severed when he realized the Emperor had played him cruelly, dominating his indomitable will... leaving the "Child of Death"'s developing potential forever broken. Leaving Mortarion alive was the harsher of fates than the Destroyer Plague and fevered "decision" to surrender to "Grandfather Nurgle". A decision that, as I have arguably implied, need never have happened ...

[@sjewitt22]

What was Typhus like as a Human and then a Space Marine? Did he always seem like the type to fall or was he in any way noble?

[@brandonhughes4571]

All i know about the man is that he's a hybrid of a overlord and human And that he betrays the death guard and primarch.

[@Pablosaavedra999]

Love the content! 🙌🏻❤️

[@djt9139]

Defiance Alone is not enough, said a somber voice, to defeat death you must be become.... IT was discriped as ancient and undying I tought this was nurgle and not the Emperor?

[@domenicoazzia4153]

More likely, he was wrong in holding on that perceived offense after. He should've just moved on.

[@Geyser39]

In regards to "would the Emperor have kept his promise to Mortarion that he'd leave Barbarus alone if Mortarion won the fight with Necare?", I think the Emperor thought that even if Mortarion won the challenge, he'd get bored with ruling the planet eventually and agree to join the crusade. Whether Mortarion would have or not, dunno, but I think the Emperor thought he would.

[@WisdomofWarhammer]

Maybe the emperor feels bad for his son and is trying to help his son come back

[@davidwilliam9681]

To be honest, one of Mortarion's fighters should have told him to check his attitude. You don't let your bro run off to face the enemy overlord by himself. Someone should have called him out for poor leadership and making emotional decisions instead of using logic. I would have called him pathetic and told him to his face that he's not fit to lead us and we're signing the deal with the Emperor whether he co-signs or not.

[@viracuscarrion8648]

The LOTR Reference . Damnn mann.

[@ebbiilizard8954]

The emperor seems to have a very powerful , yet flawed foresight. It seems to be just about good enough to reach the finish line, but not good enough to account for the slight pulling of the strings of his grand machinations. I figure the emperor's actions here were "good enough" to bring the grand plan forward and fix things later.

[@spencerherron5539]

I also can’t help but wonder what would have happened if Mortarion had managed to beat his foster without the emperor’s help. Do you think he would have honored his side of their agreement and left a primarch to his own devices forever.

[@nikik5567]

It’s his hubris. He wants to be the one to save them. Him. Not him *and some outside help* , a smarter decision that truly would’ve been for the people’s best interest, would be to allow the imperium to help them as much as they would without his commitment, and then reject them, and to fight the overlord after the fact. If he truly just didn’t trust the intentions of the emperor, that would’ve been his choice of action. Letting the stranger waste their resources on bolstering his force and populace, then doing what he had always planned to do without them.

[@thomas_dries]

Family reunions in 40K are literal chaos.

[@danieltucker3506]

Morty makes me sad. Loved when Robute asked him what happened to his brother who could withstand anything... I hope he has an arc that lets him betray chaos and die a good death

[@davesobani9565]

I wonder often what mortarion's intended role would have been.

[@blademaker9843]

I have made an ultra rapid advance to this video! As always honorable wolf cousin thank you for the great content! Glory and Honor!

[@JK-1975]

Think about who the father of the Primarchs is. Of course they're all prideful and stubborn, it's genetic. The Emperor is the single most prideful and stubborn human ever born (created?). He has never admitted a mistake, he has never accepted defeat. He has endured on the golden throne for 10,000 years, 10,000 years of unimaginable suffering. I think that his stubbornness and pride have at least some influence on his ability to endure this long. So, maybe Mortarion just inherited a bit more of those traits than his brothers.

[@eichler721]

The Emperor was wrong on some reunions like Angron. But Mortarian was the one who was wrong here.

[@qigonglungz]

The Story of Mortarion is how I got into Warhammer 40K... It was a suggested KZbin vid... 4 years later, several hundreds of dollars in mini's, books, and audiobooks, I'm still intrigued by the story... Today, I'm a whole Arch-Magos... nowadays this story pisses me off cuz Mortarion is the b%(^h in the situation... The Emp was genuine with Mortarion... and also considering how Angron caught it much worse on the "Daddy Messed Up" meter... Morty was selfish... his selfishness outweighed his conviction so much so that he didn't(doesn't) even see it himself.

[@Ally.Cat.252]

You’re welcome

[@lunaeek9130]

Rho, don't make me spit out my dinner like that! Westfold... bastard xD

[@I3erzerker]

Maybe the Emperor is trying to learn from each encounter with His "Sons". Considering the age of the Emperor and being so far above humanity it wouldn't be surprising for him to kind of stumble or be wary of how to approach each meeting. Maybe the Lost Primarchs had bad initial meetings which lead to them being wiped away etc. He doesn't have a good track record overall you could say 😅

[@EmilyXiong1999]

With age comes experience but also stubbornness, but I can still see him evolve across the 40k lore. It could just be the interpretation of the different authors or my own hope to believe he can learn and change. To his credit, The Emperor is older than any man that I know but can still show that an old dog can learn new tricks.

[@alexluelo]

One of the problems I have with the emperors challenge is that it's a rigged challenge. He knew his son would not overcome it so I can understand why Mortarian would would be resentful after discovering this. And lastly, if Mortarian truly cared about his people he would have put aside his pride and accepted support.

[@RoosterCogburnPhD]

Mortarion, out of all the primarchs, could have a neat angle of "I didn't ask for this". You could make that argument for various primarchs, but of the traitors, Mortarion was the only one who wasn't born or forcibly inflicted with madness, and his life still was a miserable slog from the moment he opened his eyes. He didn't ask to be made a psychic demigod, be flung to a poisonous wasteland, be adopted by an evil xeno/psyker, or to have Emps come and show him up, technically speaking he also didn't really ask for the Emperor's challenge considering it only involved Mortarion doing something he was going to do anyway. At least if Mortarion died on Barbarus, he would have died with dignity, but now he was locked into *more* servitude. If that's not enough, he was the one who was probably most forced into daemonhood. This all makes the Emperor's line "Defiance is not enough" more poignant, because defiance is Mortarion's defining trait, imagine if he was born on Corvus Corax' planet, or just plain hung out with Corvus more, he might've stayed loyal even if subjected to Nurgle's tortures. This also all makes Mortarion's reunion with Guilliman sadder as he describes how great he is in all his demonic glory, like trying to come up with some justification to all his own suffering. I think Mortarion and Perturabo have the most potential for further characterization with all the internal conflict and self-loathing they experience.

[@Ashtor1337]

No one asks for the life they are delt and no on has it better than the primarchs. Sure some had it better on what planets the landed on but the Emporer didn't warp them out. All of the primarks have visited Tara l, all of them have been to the Palace all of them have seen the villas. Think about it, you're over here allowing Morty to b**** about how bad his life is saying shit like I didn't choose this, what about all of the humans that followed him. All of the humans that weren't gifted with his intelligence that weren't gifted with this physical capability and gifted with this psychic capability that suffered and died on the same planet he did. Did they choose that life? Did they choose pain and suffering and death in a poisonous hellscape? And here comes Big E offering to fix all of it and what does Morty do he throws a b**** fit, he goes to the mountain he almost dies and when his father saves his life and shows him grace he does nothing but cry about it.

[@dwrdaveuk]

God damn he drags these out 😅

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

Classic example of the bad Parent-Psychology of the Emperor. He could have played it so much better.

[@m.g.9468]

There is a theory. The emperor knew that half of his sons where destined to fall to chaos. Thus he calculated which where the most promising and which the least usefull. Those he deemed promising he put much more sympathy building in, while the one he deemed inferior,he just put in barely enough to make them fight for him during his crusade. He aimed to make the 50% of the batch that would go bad to be the one that was broken already. This would explain him treating some of his sons with great care while treating the other like tools. With Dorne and Angron his calculations worked out. With Fullgrimm and ****** not so much. But who can know the thoughts of a god?

[@anshumanbose5132]

Eh? He did very well imo. Offered to transform the world, remove the toxins from the atmosphere and heal the people.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@anshumanbose5132 And Morty hated every word, because they felt like insults and interference. And Big E should have known better, seeing as he wrote Mortarions entire Genecode, and should know how to play to each of his kids best, but so often don't.

[@plaugemarine]

@@Kristian.B.Kristiansen Yeah, He did write their genome. However; that was before they were sucked in through the warp. So, It may just be minor mutations in the primarch DNA that the emperor didn't account for. After all, he thought they were immune to the temptation of chaos.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@plaugemarine Clearly not, otherwise he would have told them the truth.

[@elskaalfhollr4743]

Why didn’t he heal mortarion from a distance, empower him with holy force and chants and golden light? Let him pull the trigger

[@Ashtor1337]

Why? He is Morty's father, creater, and the Emporer of mankind. He gave his son an opportunity and his son failed. It's clearly states that Morty was dieing and the Emperor rushed in to save him. If this didn't teach Mort a little humility nothing will. He made the bet and lost. He was acting like a man child throwing a tantrum. You don't encourage that behavior.

[@elskaalfhollr4743]

@@Ashtor1337 not encouraging it led to his “ascension” in the Horus heresy, as was clear by his game of 4d Inter dimensional chess strip war grand strategy with malcador; mortarion only had one thing against the emperor, imagine having an extra primarch on your side simply by protecting instead of saving

[@graemealkins9138]

Angron was going to sell his life cheaply so the emps stepped in .. morty on the other hand jus couldnt get there !! If the emps was smart he would have done away with the gas n let morty deal with his step dad

[@bengale9977]

Yeah it definitely backfired, but you can see his logic. I think he misjudged Mortarion's character as being more like Russ and that showing him that he was stronger would win his respect.

[@bobbyrabii2402]

After all this time, I am genuinely curious as to what exactly Necare the overlord's species was? He doesnt seem to be a daemon prince, I highly doubt he was human, even a sorcerer of nurgle. Wtf is he to be able to own primarch like that. A matured one in the Mortarion.

[@abottjones480]

Perhaps the Emperor was trying to be a father and teach Mortarion a lesson..He made the Primarchs..He knew their limits…Showing Mortarion that He can’t do it all alone and it’s not bad to seek help? Edit: hah I typed this right before the Emperor Saving Mortarion

[@monsterno.definablenever.3484]

15:51 Yes, and no. He would send requests for mortarian's and his world's aid as His world grew, he would still send requests to send gifts of technology and supplies, and continue to prod as such, however, if ultimately, tge answer still rang true a solid "No" he would guard the planet, and give all its descendants room to grow. The Emporer does not lie, at least to his children.

[@Danterag5]

It just occured to me that you haven't told us the story of how Rogal Dorn meets the Emperor!

[@bobbyrabii2402]

Its interesting because it isnt much of one. Rogal becomes emperor of Inwit, and meets Big E in Space with the phalanx. We really know nothing of Rogal's childhood

[@chase2806]

Save his son or save an easily manipulated tool for his own mad bid for domination over all human life?

[@richardtrue2758]

Only if the emperor did the same for Angrons people that he did here

[@joaojmc_]

What book describes the villas bellow the Imperial Palace?

[@fumarc4501]

Was Mortarion one of the Emperor’s Chosen? I.e. one of the Primarchs that he would have kept once the Webway was conquered by the Imperium?

[@horatio_]

First. Ever. Sup wolf lord thanks for the post

[@xavier84623]

i think from the stakes the emp knew morty couldnt kill his father yet. he set him up to fail, and saying "it was to teach him a lesson" is actually just terrible parenting.

[@Ashtor1337]

Clearly you have never raised a stubborn son.

[@xavier84623]

@@Ashtor1337 actually i have. and yeah, you let them explore and test their limits, climb something and fall, etc. i get that. but you dont intentionally set them up to fail. and you definitely dont set them up to fail so that you can take advantage of them. the emp was manipulative and dishonest here imo. he shoulda just been like, yo, i see that you cant kill your jerk off father quite yet, what if i help you with a tech or psychic buff, then you can slay him real quick, and then join me, your real dad. as always, a more open and less manipulative emp probably could have easily prevented the heresy.

[@johnnyscifi]

Hot take...his kill wasn't stolen from Morty. Barbarus has clearly rotted his mind. I think Mortarion wouldve preferred dying in his failed endeavor. Kind of like Angron...