THE FATE OF MAGNUS! REUNION WITH THE EMPEROR!

[@maximusfeelus914]

"No pathetic box can hold me like this!!" -Magnus the Red

[@nikik5567]

*holds him*

[@itspetz7421]

Wow the blue berrys actually did it?

[@DarkhexBG]

The Fabulous Custodes will hold him. Aya aya aya !!!!!

[@Dartchone]

@@itspetz7421 likely because their gellar field was off all the daemons and defenses on Sortiarius assumed the ship is empty and taken over by chaos because no one is stupid enough to fly into eye of terror without a working gellar field so they could get nice and close to him form there i guess blanks would work to disorient Magnus long enought for Canto Sihtarius to knock him out with a bonk on the head, before he is packed into box.

[@Menhtrol]

"Crikey, Companion! This cute lil' Sheila has a real attitude!"

[@tysonwollas235]

This make his rage at Arhiman make sooo much more sense. He gave up redemption to save his sons only have Arhiman turn them all to dust.

[@cgavin1]

Just as planned.

[@giocrypt5148]

Magnus was warned

[@HammarPwnsYourFace]

All knowledge has a price...

[@sindrimyr5351]

The thing though is.....They were all still dying..the Legion was mutating at a devastating pace again, and magnus now a prince of Tzeentch no longer did anything to stop it. If you believe the book aurelian, where Lorgar sees the future of the thousand sons (which later seems confirmed) then event hough their bodies are horribly mutated, their minds stay intact. But still the legion was swiftly degrading and dying. What ahriman did is in essence try to solve it (the ritual only failed because it was manipulated by a third party...wanna know more then read the book crimson king) but it backfired. but it also bought the legion time, their souls a snd spirits were preserved in the armour while the body was gone (except that of the stronger psykers). and ever since then Ahriman has been searching for a way to solve it and fully revive his legion.

[@sachavykos3206]

Magnus is rare among all warhammer figures let alone chaos ones in that his end game is still achievable. he and/or Ahriman can gather the tools the techniques, the favors with new eldritch elf gods ext needed to restore his legion. Even at the end of 40k Magnus achieving all of his whims likely still leads the universe into a golden age. Its why I find his warped and twisted faction so intriguing.

[@musicalDrebin]

Vulkan: here let me give you an "I'm not mad you ruined everything forever" hug!

[@DanielWW2]

Also Vulkan. You killed my son. You are not friend. But that line really gained a lot of weight and meaning now that the Magnus story arc has been completed.

[@georgesadler7520]

Magnus: THAT WAS LORGAR GODSDAMNIT!!!

[@chainsawsubtlety9828]

"BRUDDAH!"

[@vladimirradovanovich8269]

@@georgesadler7520 I'll just leave this here - That was Magnus - Magnus ... - THAT ... WAS ... LORGAAAAAR!!! - 🦵😡🕳

[@akumaking1]

@@georgesadler7520 Kitten: Please don’t make Magnus angry.

[@diegogisbertllorens7416]

This is something some people unfamiliar with the lore struggle to understand: that the ending of the story has existed already for 30 years, and yet the writers still manage to bring us moments like this one with Magnus.

[@HammarPwnsYourFace]

Mostly because we only had 1 perspective. The novel is a great take on other Pov’s and filling in the missing knowledge.

[@MB-rn4zk]

What is the ending?

[@HammarPwnsYourFace]

@@MB-rn4zk It is the same as we always knew. It just fills in how tragic Magnus’ fall was. And how outside of perty, he has a very high chance to be redeemed. All E needed to do was give Magnus the primarius for his new legion and put the rest in status until chaos could be dealt with. It shows you that deep down. E is a dickhead and can’t relate to anyone outside Malchador.

[@HammarPwnsYourFace]

@@MB-rn4zk tbh, should the E recover more from his position on the throne, you might see a redemption arc play out. Hell. My personal theory is thus: you get clone Fulgrim to return and he fights deamon Fulgrim. The redemption is that he slays demon Fulgrim and claims the part of his soul that he needs to be whole and brings back the emperor’s children. This would be aided by either the wildcard Khan or Vulkan. Hell. Id even say that “the Lion” would Wake up and would help the clone reclaim his “soul” to make a new Fulgrim. This leads to Magnus seeing that he had a road away from Tzeentch. Hell. In down for the “real Alpharius” to stick it into chaos and twist to show that 90% of the alpha legion was playing the long game and take this shit back from chaos. Tyranids and necrons are a big bad that they need all hands on deck to deal with. Just my 2 cents.

[@OmniGSage]

@@HammarPwnsYourFace That, and they slightly shifted it in Magnus not becoming the daemon prince after being broken over Russ' knee, but by Vulkan.

[@klikklik7499]

"I'm sorry Magnus, your living sons must be put into stasis until we can cure the flesh change. We'll do whatever we can to cure this as soon and return them as the galaxy is clean." -Emperor "Father? Can we really do that?" -Vulcan "Beats the shit out of me but that's a pretty extreme choice to give a guy we want back on our side when we really don't have to give him an ultimatum right this minute. Especially when I can take some more time to think this through once I'm not hooked up to a pain toilet. You're tracking Perty is almost literally knocking on the damn door here, Magnus can turn this entire thing on its head. Hell we could even have a whole planet for them later. Like a retirement home where they can change in peace as we look for a cure. I mean, we've got to at least try if only for appearances sake!" -Common Sense Emperor

[@burntham113]

New series: If the emperor had a functioning brain.

[@Faus4us]

@@burntham113 "If the Emperor had a text-to-speech device" is just that lol

[@leovalenzuela8368]

This FACT you just dropped makes me hate the emperor so much more.

[@lordalpharius5928]

Magnus the Red: Primarch of two legions- the known Thousand Sons and his pure soul, the Grey Knights.

[@Leptospirosi]

I think the Thousand Sons had to be the happiest among the legionaries: they never ever questioned the love of their father and they never had to really fight of it. Compare this to what The poor bastards World Eaters, or the Iron Warriors had to endure. They were domed form the begin, but anyone can tell that Magnus did everything he could for them including damning his soul.

[@blazednlovinit]

Yeah for World Eaters and Iron Warriors maybe.... not so much for the Salamanders (who were allowed to retain their previous astartes lives and visit their families and such and never questioned the love of their father) or the Ultramarines or Blood Angels. I agree that Magnus was a good father/primarch but there were others. Salamanders probably had it most cushy.

[@Leptospirosi]

@@blazednlovinit what I meant is the situation the Thousand sons were, in the eye of their primarch could easily have turned for worst, but it never did: all the chapters you mentioned were "adequate" to the eyes of their primarch, proud and standing as an example of pinnacle of humanity. Not so much for the thousand sons, plagued by the flesh change since the begin, never able to grow more then a current large chapter, while other had legions. The leading reason for him keeping delving in the immaterium was to find a cure for his sons, not just for the sake of knowledge. He was desperate for a cure and this is the driving factor for his will to save any library or knowledge he found, even when this meant clashing with Russ or Konrad. Magnus affect was greater and more human then what either Corax or Sanguinius had shown for their doomed sons. He went further; he went deeper; he damned his soul for the sake of his son, even when offered the option (a tempting one) to get back to his own father side, letting his sons die. How easily could their weakness be source of contempt for Maguns looking at what other legions were? How possible a treatment like the "decimation" imposed by Angron and Perturabo could have been the outcome? You feel the care and the concern of Maguns in so many situations: after he helps Numeon to reach Vulkan on Nocturne piercing the storm created by Lorgar, Amon asked: ‘Why alone? ‘I could have helped.’ ‘No, you would have been long dead by now.’ Even while speaking with Numeon, what he wants to hear is what his true relation with Vulkan was, how much had he been willing to sacrifice, as this was something he could respect, even in what could possibly be an enemy Maguns never put any of his son willingly in a situation above their strength, even for his own sake.

[@flameknightplayz2939]

@@Leptospirosi So true. Even after turning to a deamon prince, he still forgave his sons and also asked them to forgive him. His deamonhood didn't affect his love for his sons, he accepted the price of damnation of it meant his children get to live. His love for them grew stronger and bigger after submitting to chaos, he was then more willing to do anything to save them knowing the horrors that might resurface and come for them Just look at the new kingdom he built in real space for every psycher across the galaxy so they can live without being hunted, burned, or tortured, like what happened to them at Prospero, his sons, and the murder of billions innocent prosperine psyker citizens.

[@Codoxnz]

Theory: The Emperor sent Russ to recover the fragments of Magnus, lost in the warp -- as a hope for a future without The Emperor on the Throne, and a redemption for both Magnus and Russ.

[@Noble6Espeo]

God I hope that he returns with Magnus' soul and brings about his redemption. Hell if GW really wants to he can be a set-piece to bringing back all the warp lost primarchs too in another era-defining turn like Cadia. This of course would need its equal weight against the Imperium, likely from Chaos stepping it up again or the Necrons stepping it up with the Silent King

[@DoomStarRequiem]

bro, you're on to something here.. after watching this video, I'm really hoping those fragments of Magnus will factor in a redemption... of sorts.. but not yet.. some grimdark needs to be kept tho.

[@macfin4862]

He's gone man. Magnus ain't coming back

[@Memelord1117]

@@macfin4862 maybe. what if the roboutian heresy loyalists joined (at their time of istvaan 5)

[@entityzero1269]

i thought magnus' noble shard was with the grey knights

[@randomcenturion7264]

I cried when Vulkan just broke and asked Magnus "Why couldn't you just by my brother again!?!?" There's no petty glee Magnus takes from this. Every fibre of his being doesn't want to fight Vulkan and HATES that he has to hurt one of his dearest brothers this way.

[@voodooozo3755]

Vulkan : GIVE YOUR BROTHA A PROPA HUG!

[@OmniGSage]

This plot point is so much better than the old idea that he became a daemon prince when he was dying and cast the spell to teleport his legion when Russ broke him. Because it was a brother who cared for him who did it, rather than one who dispised him.

[@augustuslunasol10thapostle]

This would've hurt Magnus more if it were the khan

[@surimonizarro9791]

@@augustuslunasol10thapostle he or sanguinius, the two who stood closest to him during the trial against psykers

[@Erebdai]

The tragedy of Magnus. The one thing he wanted was forgiveness but not at the price of his sons. #magnusisagooddad

[@justinbriley2531]

he's a better father then the emperor.

[@____________838]

Yeah... How many of his sons did he allow to die by letting Russ onto his planet so easily?

[@praetorian9823]

@@____________838 but why did he do that? Because he saw that if he didn’t it would result in the death of both Legions. Not to mention he eventually went out to fight alongside his sons soon after. He had an actual reason, something that Big E did not.

[@lobogonzalo4745]

@@praetorian9823 the true reason for Magnus to delay his participation on combat was to buy some time for the secret books to escape in some of the ships he despatch earlier. Some of those books where intercepted. Magnus offer his sons as sacrifice for his library, bis one true love.

[@darrianweathington1923]

Remember when Magnus doomed the galaxy forever? I remember... the universe remembers.

[@bibby659]

I still hope for a Magnus redemption, once almost all of his childrens souls have been taken by Tzeentch, and he has no one else to turn towards again once more, that he may very well look towards his father for guidance, or, possibly someone else can knock some sense into him.

[@stephaniehaney736]

*hug some sense into him**

[@lordgaben7583]

@@stephaniehaney736 Vulkan *LIVES STOMP STOMP*

[@OmniGSage]

If there is anything left of Magnus himself.

[@bibby659]

@@OmniGSage there is always something lefr of all the corrupted Primarchs, the problem is getting those halfs of them to realize they can pull themselves out of the void, with help obviously. In Magnuses case, he has shown that he is more than capable of coming back to the light, but he has to make his choice of leaving his children behind, until he realizes that they have been taken by chaos and arent really his sons anymore, he will stay on the side of chaos, in a way, he is stuck in a endless cycle of lies by chaos and is under a belief that they are still the ones he loved.

[@PeachDragon_]

It depends on what brother goes after him, vulkan and guilliman are honestly the only ones who might have a shot at getting Magnus back from chaos.

[@e21big]

For me, this just proved that even as the Crimson King - Magnus was just as good and flaws as he originally was. Even now, he would still yearn for redemption, a second chance for both him and his Sons - because of course, that's hope and the more he schemed, tried and failed, the more delicious the fruits Tzeentch would reap in the end

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

What a great use of the Vulkan storyline from Nick Kyme! He makes such a heart-breaking final fight, as Magnus saved his life and the life of his sons in "Deathfire." Helping them get back home.

[@orin2706]

"I will not apologize for loving my sons, just as our father loves us," -Magnus to Vulken, probably

[@thesmilinggun-knight9646]

But I sure as shit like to kill them when they piss me off.

[@orin2706]

@@thesmilinggun-knight9646 the trick is to wait until daddy drinks his fifth of "happy juice"🥃

[@thesmilinggun-knight9646]

@@orin2706 the 'happy juice' in this case being daemon or space wolf tears.

[@orin2706]

@@thesmilinggun-knight9646 Shaken...not stirred

[@darrianweathington1923]

@@thesmilinggun-knight9646 or whenever Russ is coming... I'll kill my sons, I'LL KILL EM GOOD!

[@johnnys8393]

This was phenomenal. The way the author went further into the tragedy of Magnus downfall, how close he came to true redemption and in the end his final choice. Thank you for this Wolf Lord.

[@sindrimyr5351]

Aye, Graham MCneill is truely the father of the Thousand sons and Magnus.

[@wereshem-ankh9063]

The Emperor was a complete arse. Especially after most of his sons were slaughtered. Not to mention the citizens of Prospero. I would be standing right beside Magnus because the Emperor is a selfish man-child. And considering how much Emps and Malcador could see. Well. It makes them both selfish.

[@adfury]

There is always hope.

[@nyrukdaerog3973]

And that hope feeds Tzeentch. Praise Change!

[@thesmilinggun-knight9646]

Dude this is 40k not Star Trek hope is only a comforting lie.

[@crypticgaming2022]

"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Isador Akios

[@flameknightplayz2939]

@@crypticgaming2022 "STC'S that can cure all flaws and diseases, which the drukhari stole in recent times exists." Emps just gave up hope when cure is out there, He and the Selenar can't but the STC Artificial Intelligence and storage banks can cure the genetic flaw of the thousand sons. There are so many ways to cure them and he just gave up like that. There was nothing that can stop golden age humans, not even diseases or xenos. Colonies were genetically modifying themselves everytime like it was normal, gene-tch stc's analyze dangerous pathogens, mutations, virus, genetic human flaws, and provided cures to all of these. That is why humanity can live in every environment, that is why Mortarion found people existing in toxic planets especially like that of his planets. STCs can cure the ts, humans were even creating modified virus that can kill a world in just a few days, every gene flaws can be cured.

[@ohamatchhams]

@@crypticgaming2022 Current Imperium needs to stop being dumb and proceed to create STCs that strictly revolves around Emperor of Mankind How is that even hard? Maybe not for the greed and incompetence of Games Workshop over non-plastic toys projects for most of the times, but certainly can open sense to the part of W40K that baffles the smart fans like Commissar Gamza

[@Kareszkoma]

Magnus has the luck of Lamenters. After all this, his sons will turn to dust. He gave up everything for them, and once again, he lost them. At this point it just feels like Tzeench is playing a very cruel play with him.

[@robertorodriguez9854]

Magnus has some of the strongest character arch’s next to curze

[@darylkowalchuk8373]

My two favourite primarchs!

[@robertorodriguez9854]

Same here for traitor primarchs they’re in my top 3!

[@nikik5567]

Haven’t seen much of curze. Got any novel recommendations?

[@robertorodriguez9854]

@@nikik5567 Yeahh prince of crows is a good one to read!

[@ianharrison5758]

@@robertorodriguez9854 my top 3 are Magnus, Corvus, then Angron. I love Angron the most, as a character, but I find magnus the most compelling. I might be the only Angron fan in the entire fandom lmao

[@johnnyscifi]

No, Magnus can't give up his sons. Especially after all they've been through

[@Amatsaru29]

Then Ahriman turned his brothers into dust :(

[@giocrypt5148]

The Emperor knew it was futile.

[@TurbanCatMccoy]

Well, he wants to be a better father than the one he had, despite some fuck ups.

[@darrianweathington1923]

You mean his soulless buckets of sand?

[@MajinOthinus]

@@giocrypt5148 Which means, that he wanted Magnus there in his throne room, despite knowing it to be futile. Makes you wonder what might happen in that regard some 10-12k years in the future......Magnus still possesses Revelation's ring after all.

[@goreborn6045]

This might sound too sentimental, but this book actually made me cry, alongside The Hammer of Olympia and the Burning of Prospero.

[@ironduke5058]

That is a completely normal reaction lol

[@devinreimers1207]

Ughhh. Pain. My two favorite primarchs. Magnus, I think, is incredibly tragic

[@THExRISER]

Who's the other one?

[@keenancollett6465]

Vulcan if they are referencing the story

[@THExRISER]

@@keenancollett6465 Ah ok.

[@elfdrow6679]

"What was your reaction" = Redemption for Magnus. not for his errors. but for turning to chaos. ===SPOILERS=== I'm going to make it short this time. (or try lol) He really didn't want to kill the emperor, and He didn't. He was asked to come back. And accepted the notion until they lay out the conditions: -Betray the brother you love the most. Even when they discard him without offering a chance. And Magnus accepted. (I actually find out of character for Vulkan to accept that so readily too) -Discard all of his sons. He already gave one eye to cure them. He loved them above all else. never was going to happen. And the emperor knew that. (I often wonder if this was the usual cruel way the emperor likes to punish his detractors) so... if He is not welcomed back with his sons. the only one thing that at least could provide a chance for them was what tzeentch already offered. As full of himself and all those errors in judgement he had. the fault of His fall to chaos is on the Emperor alone. The emperor handed the gods of chaos a champion in a silver platter. And lost a son in the process. = = = = Now the other aspect of the book. yeah I think this one actually solidifies that pretty much the ONLY person the emperor like and felt grief at his loss was his friend and confidant. Malcador. Not even his children received that treatment... Ferrus was more of a passing notion that he could fix. Alpharius was not worth even mentioning. = = = = And this book was a roller coaster. McNeill... seriously like you mentioned Rho. It gets you rooting for Magnus. (and I second the goosebumps and all ) most authors try for the reader to sympathize with the main character. few actually pulled it off. This book did it.

[@Kareszkoma]

This is going to give birth to a lot of new theories. Why did the Emperor chase Magnus away? Why was he preparing for the Horus Herecy? What is the "new and more powerful legion"?

[@elfdrow6679]

@@Kareszkoma lol so true. here is another theory. the emperor left the flesh change in the thousand sons , so the legion would die out and Magnus could devote himself completely to golden throne post great crusade.

[@Kareszkoma]

@@elfdrow6679 ._ . so thats why he knows it's uncureable... damn. Thats dark and very cruel.

[@flameknightplayz2939]

@@elfdrow6679 STC that can cure all diseases even genetic flaws exists, stc databanks that contain all kinds of gene analysis and can provide solutions to gene flaws exists, drukhari stole some of them quickly when word got out to the them that humans had this level of technology.. Emperor used ancient human tech and biomancy to create them, he knows there is cure and he just lied. He knows stc's out there that can cure them can be found, he said "I can prject myself light years away if only I am not bound by the webway breach"- meaning he watched many human civilizations and observed their tech during the golden age, he already has knowledge on how those ancient humans basically cured every genetic flaw, diseases, virus, etc, fuckin emps just gave up on curing them how cruel.

[@skywillfindyou]

No really info that knew his decision. He knows many, but not all, and his sons decisions are among things that are half-mystery to him.

[@NP3GA]

I can't but hope for a redemption for Magnus and his sons not to return to the Imperium but just to free themselves from tzeetch and fight for mankind ones more

[@giocrypt5148]

He can’t, the very definition of corruption is when he decided to reject his purpose.

[@NP3GA]

@@giocrypt5148 I know 😢

[@lenkagamine4145]

I wish we had more non-chaos renegade factions. That would be a neat spin to Magnus's character. And others, too. Everything is either imperium or chaos, It'd be fun to see more... just, none of the above.

[@NP3GA]

@@lenkagamine4145 the Iron Woriors would fit very well with the renegade them they had no-one but themselves at this point and I believe they needed to finally be free and made there own future with there own rules

[@lenkagamine4145]

@@NP3GA Perturabo is a daemon prince, so they have allegiance to Chaos Undivided. I mean it would be cool to have renegade chapters who were fully opposed to both the imperium and chaos.

[@jmvt3]

In TTS, when the star child reunites with throne emperor, I want to see the Emperor and Magnus close the rift in the throne room together.

[@Maxibon2007]

And have the Space Corgies..sorry! SpaceWolves rebuild Prospero

[@sessy01]

After you force Russ and Magnus to be in the same room with each other and make them apologize.

[@jagnestormskull3178]

@@sessy01 There's hints that that's going to happen soon. The Emperor said that the two reason she created a mortal avatar were 1) rescue Leman Russ and any other Primarchs the Emper-Mazov may come across and 2) send an emissary to the birth of Ynnead. And guess who's also going to be at the birth of Ynnead? Magnus, because he's helping Cegorach in exchange for access to the Black Library. Leman and Magnus are going to be in for a serious therapy session.

[@deooptimomaximo9843]

Which book is that in? I gotta read it immediately​@@jagnestormskull3178

[@GoetzimRegen]

They are building this arc, so that magnus will sit on the golden throne, ẃhen he is needed, in the future.

[@10101437]

Man Big E could have given the Thousand Sons a glorious death against Horus as a way of redemption even if they all die, then offered Magnus a new legion and said in honor of your loss sons

[@Drekt666]

It was all chess match, every interaction. Plotted and poked into position. Technically couldn't he gather up a bunch of chaos and purge the chaos out of them? I mean he did it to Horus.

[@PeachDragon_]

@Malachi Cui the final plan for the emperor is either to have a fullt psychic humanity or a fully normal humanity, aside from the custodes, primarchs and astartes alike will eventually be thrown away once their job is completed

[@AnIdiotsLantern]

I’m pretty sure there’s no universe where “these sons suck, let’s kill them all and then get some new ones” is going to go over well, no matter what.

[@ianharrison5758]

@Malachi Cui yeah, somehow the emperor knew whoever became warmaster would fall, but refused to believe magnus when he told him what he expected to happen already did. The emperor is amazing sometimes but it’s times like this that make me wonder why he’s in charge. He’s smart enough to plot 20k years ahead but not smart enough to recognize the truth when he hears it. Ironic

[@ianharrison5758]

@Malachi Cui oh yeah, the emperor is an egotistical maniac with no actual connection to the species he is “protecting” Which I guess makes sense with the theme of warhammer but that doesn’t make the emperor a compelling character in my opinion. Tbh the emperor is probably the most overrated character in all of 40k.

[@MrTappers7]

Oh man how they tug on the heart strings. Truly a great story

[@akgk6669]

Is it a fanfiction?

[@thewildcardperson]

@@akgk6669 yeah I'm wondering that to whwn is this happening if it's true

[@akgk6669]

@@thewildcardperson now ive seen the hole thing i know its not the case

[@thewildcardperson]

@@akgk6669 yeah honestly good false twist

[@akgk6669]

@@thewildcardperson indeed

[@AROBASPARK]

Considering the bad hand of fate played on Magnus, a arc of redemption is not likely without it ending in further tragedy.

[@austintracey9368]

Of all the servers of chaos, I like him the most because he shows that good intentions can still lead to a horrible end. Warhammer isn't good v evil. It's order v chaos. Both sides can be good or evil.

[@2saisai]

@@austintracey9368 the road to hell is paved with good intentions. That's magnus's tragedy.

[@markrtoffeeman]

Grimdark

[@minnumseerrund]

Tbf, if any of the traitors _deserve_ redemption, it's Magnus. Of course, 40k isnt fair, so

[@austintracey9368]

@@minnumseerrund I know but that's what I love about it. Every other setting is always how are the good guys going to win and it's never in question. With Warhammer you're not even sure there are good guys and when there is occasionally a good moment it's a thousand times more impactful

[@1701Emperor]

Kurze and Perturabo were both in control of their souls, but they were also both still lost.

[@dracon501]

I don't feel like big E saying his death was irrelevant in the point of it being a single life but being irrelevant because the things malcador has set in motion will out live him.

[@maxgaj3015]

Or it's irrelevant because he's back alive now. So his death actually is literally irrelevant.

[@Dreadbringer]

@@maxgaj3015 jajajaja true.

[@NueThunderKing]

@@maxgaj3015 what?

[@maxgaj3015]

@@NueThunderKing he was revived in the same story, before this conversation

[@darrianweathington1923]

What max said also, the life of 1 doesn't outweigh the life of the entire universe, even if it is your best friend of 30,000 years. The job comes first, not your emotions. Which is something the emperor has been trying to drive into the thick cerimite skulls of his sons. Yes their his children and he loves them, but he loves all of humanity more, and they are more lost than his -20- 18 sons... the job comes first.

[@jaysonsamuel8368]

The emperor really thought he was going to come back but a small part of him always knew

[@greyknighthyuga4946]

I’ve been following 40k lore for two years now, literally everyday (a serious noob in other words), since I’ve been unemployed. My wonderful neighbor letting me have access to his wifi since then. I just got employed just under two months ago... As the Wolf Lord states it’s best to read the lore for yourself first but that’s easier said then done for me as it will still take several months to a year to get on good enough footing to start spending on entertainment. Anyways sure enough I’m going to build as vast as possible of a collection of 40k novels because It’s simply the best fantasy story I’ve come across. Until then sorry for ignoring the spoiler alerts. You’re uploads are just too enjoyable to leave until I’ve read some books, as I’ve been able to do with the other prominent channels covering 40k. Keep going strong brother and thank you for Magnus week. It was really some of the best insight into the Phoenician I’ve come across.

[@blazednlovinit]

Well done on getting back into employment mate :)

[@greyknighthyuga4946]

@Blazednlovinit. Thank you very much brother

[@Szminsky]

The only real flaw to me with this story is the contradiction between Magnus saying “even one would be too many”.... to him annihilating one of his own for disobeying an order, just previously.

[@probablythedm1669]

Probably, to Magnus, the difference is condemning innocent sons to death, compared to killing a son that just committed a murder in front of him and disobeyed his direct orders by doing so.

[@Szminsky]

@@probablythedm1669 yes I considered this angle, along with him also being devastated by what just occurred - shard being gone and him killing his “uncle”. In the end though, it just doesn’t feel very consistent to me. He completely annihilated his own son (someone he apparently would never betray in favor of joining the emperor), over an impulsive act - killing someone who really meant nothing to Magnus. Chastisement or some other similar punishment would be more fitting IMO.

[@NueThunderKing]

@@Szminsky that is chaos and humanity in action, even as demigods we are full of incoherence.

[@cazacuradu]

I don't know if you mean the one that magnus killed in his tower, on prospero, the one that discovered everything that Magnus did, from Magnusses lapse, but yeah Magnus killed on of his sons, on Prospero too.

[@KevinGallion]

If you haven't my wolf brother you should do a week on Leman and his interactions with his brother Lion and the reveal that the 13th were falling to the Wulfen curse.

[@shanemcdowell3628]

This smacks of Ahriman's latest shenanigans in which some of his Rubriks were cast into the depths of the Warp(?) and he dives after them screaming "Brothers!"; so many feels.

[@PeachDragon_]

Magnus is one of the kindest primarchs honestly

[@DanielWW2]

#Magnusdidsomethingwrong The Thousand Sons where done for and Magnus probably knew it. Have the remaining ones die in a glorious final battle on Terra to serve as their redemption. Have them slaughter endless hordes of daemons in the webway until they fall or succumb to the flesh change after which you grand them the emperors mercy. We want Magnus back. If anything, let the Emperor manifest himself in the warp to stab Tzeentch until he relents Magnus his soul.

[@jarreldoomis3502]

#TTSSHOULDBECANON

[@CrazyDutchguys]

But the Captain General owns Magnus's soul

[@DanielWW2]

@@CrazyDutchguys Kitten will be much more likely to release the soul if you ask him nicely. It does simplify matters yes.

[@thewayfarer8849]

At this point, with the Emperor offering redemption to Magnus and Curze (in his weird meat vision), I wouldn't surprised if his wounds don't come from offering Horus his hand, and Horus just cheap shotting him.

[@HammarPwnsYourFace]

Totally, no way even a boosted Horus takes big e in a 1v1. He was almost bested by the angel. Big e was tricked and got stabbed in the heart for it. No wonder nowadays in the 41st he is so. Cold. Horus took his heart out. Thats what papa smurf saw when he returned

[@HammarPwnsYourFace]

Tbh, Horus already lost to Leman. Russ just couldn’t cull another brother after already losing 3. Lost Forgotten & Fulgrim

[@ryansimmons6125]

@@HammarPwnsYourFace Tbf we know Russ is one of the top dogs *drum noises* of the primarchs. But I agree even a boosted Horus wouldn’t do that much damage to the big E

[@HammarPwnsYourFace]

@Miguel Mauro So was Be’lakor, yet he has done jack shit with it... one would think if you had that power you could accomplish something...

[@HammarPwnsYourFace]

@Miguel Mauro The question is if Horus was so powerful, was he toying w the Angel and got his Weakness exposed to allow big E the ability to destroy him? Ffs Horus(boosted) just fought Leman and lost, relatively not that long before the final battle. All could have been avoided had he just taken the cut and finished him. Damn the feels he had and couldn’t put them aside for the greater dream. Maybe the 4 really did boost the f out of Horus to not allow that to happen again. That would explain alot more. Horus being able to out-do the pre-cog abilities of the Angel in battle would be something. Only Curze had greater pre-cog abilities showed at that time, outside of E himself. Id like to know that in his last efforts that he(the angel) made the chink in the armor that is the United gods of chaos to allow E to win out.

[@coreyklinge4634]

My two favorite primarchs fighting is such a tragedy. They should have just been best buds and left it all behind to go explore together.

[@aceofgames4410]

"You were meant to destroy Chaos, not join them! Bring humanity to the light, not leave it in darkness! You were my brother Magnus, I loved you!" -Vulkan probably

[@zerodecimal3236]

"Even one is too much" that line broke my soul

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

Great final video! I see a lot of people get this wrong. Killing one son or several for disobeying your orders or when you are in great distress is NOT! the same as willingly sacrificing and abandoning the entire Legion to save yourself. It is a completely different emotional decision, and not bad writing.

[@Dreadbringer]

True, It was a hardcore decition.

[@Archon3960]

Makes me think of this time when the Lion killed a Dark Angels Chaplain in a moment of rage. :/

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@Archon3960 true. And that did come back to haunt him. In Dreadwing, we see the loss of trust and paranoia, that the high command of the First now feels towards their Lord.

[@yeoboshong]

Ahhh the tragedies of Magnus. Worthy of being a play or drama series...

[@117Haseo]

Thanks for covering my favorite Primarch Rho, doubt you'll see this but I do appreciate the hard work.

[@Besitzt11]

Such a great book again i can't say enough about it. I really do enjoy how over the course of time you fall in love with Magnus.

[@eichler721]

Graham McNeill is in my top 5 favorite writers for 40K. He knows how to make a deep character and I loved it. It shows the Emperor was not cold and uncaring, he even tried to offer Magnus redemption.

[@marcelbosse5829]

With an offer no true father could agree on. So Well written👍

[@merrickc.155]

Agreed huts you right in the feels

[@jagnestormskull3178]

The Emperor didn't offer Magnus redemption, he offered Magnus a Faustian pact. Magnus's greatest wish in exchange to that which he values most. Magnus's rejection of his greatest wish for the good of his sons was the true first step to redemption for the way he failed them at Prospero.

[@eichler721]

@@jagnestormskull3178 he did offer him redemption for wrecking his webway project and ignoring the counsel. However he could not save Magnus's legion as it was too tainted but he would make him a new one. The Emperor never wanted Magnus destroyed or his legion just brought back to Terra to awnser for his wrongs.

[@jagnestormskull3178]

@@eichler721 Killing your children doesn't redeem you. That's not how redemption works. Magnus failed his sons at the Battle of Prospero; he did not fail them in the Emperor's Throne Room. Tearing a hole into the Imperial Webway was necessary with the information that Magnus had at the time. Magnus and Ahriman searched for years for Webway Gates, but found only Gates destroyed by other Legions. If the Emperor had listened to what Magnus had to say, rather than telling him to shut up because he violated the Edict of Nikaea, the Horus Heresy could have been aborted.

[@patrickwycoff9577]

To thw wolf lord rho u have saved me o et the years ur depictions of a father who loves his sons is sumthin I needed to hear my father was well let's say not always like most dad's his teachings ring in my ears and all I ho thru now I was prepared for by a man who hugged me very little do thank u love the channel For the Emperor!❤❤

[@whythelongface64]

The emperor could just have told him to stop using the geneseed further and let his ( non corrupt) sons continue being useful while slowly being replaced by the new legion. This seems so contrived smh

[@azrael1045]

the remaining sons of Magnus was the cost to have his betrayal forgiven even if they could have been cured The Emperor would have still made their deaths the price for forgiveness

[@whythelongface64]

@@azrael1045 Then that is no forgiveness at all! That is punishment.

[@azrael1045]

@@whythelongface64 or Penance

[@flameknightplayz2939]

@@azrael1045 No, Emps wanted them dead because he thinks there is no saving them and not as payment for forgiveness. He could have just as easily told Magnus to just cryostasis his sons or some form of hibernation and get on the throne so they might still find a way to cure them in the future, but no he wants to thunder warriors the shit out if them.

[@whythelongface64]

@@azrael1045 Penance is punishment. The emperor should've known better than to ask Magnus to foresake his sons. He could have asked him to lead them into the heat of battle as punishment though

[@iloveplayingpr]

The Emperor botched it when he said his Legion can't be saved -_-

[@lolgirlamongus7170]

This is to my mind the best part of this scene, since teases out wonderfully the arrogance of Magnus. If the Emperor cannot save them, what makes Magnus think that he can? After all the mistakes he made during the Heresy, all the times he spurned the advice of others, did all those things that proved utterly inadequate; what makes him think that he can save his legion when the Emperor can't?

[@randomcenturion7264]

@@lolgirlamongus7170 Holy Hell, I never thought of it like that. Magnus just refused to accept that his Legion was doomed. And what's worse is, because he turned down The Emperor, they're forever remembered as traitors, when they could've gotten a noble death and rebirth. Instead, most of them are now dust automatons or mutated madmen so far removed from the scholars they used to be.

[@Dreadbringer]

@@lolgirlamongus7170 this one got It right.

[@flameknightplayz2939]

@@lolgirlamongus7170 They both can't but they can find a way together, after ten thousand years cures that can fully reverse the flesh change and the rubric appeared just look at Ynnead's power bringing Guilliman back to life and returning the rubric Marines to life. He could have offered to stasis the TS, trap their souls in artefacts like Magnus' tome and have them posses new space marine bodies or hibernate them to give Magnus hope because hope did come in 41k, a cure presented itself meaning there is true hope and salvation for them.

[@praetorian9823]

@@lolgirlamongus7170 I think that was one of the only scenes where Magnus wasn’t arrogant. He was desperate. Think about all he gave up to save his sons, the fights, turning on many of the brother’s he cared deeply for. He had to watch his homeworld die, all because he wanted to save them. Then he finally meets the man who “ordered” his execution, yet still offers Magnus a second chance... if he kills his sons, the same sons that he literally sacrificed everything for. He wasn’t being arrogant, he was a parent, who was just told he had to kill his children. Even if they were truly lost to chaos, could you truly say that you’d murder your own kids just to be “forgiven”?

[@YasukeKomiya]

16:43, this really gets to me. I'm just imagining a really stoked Magnus just having the time of life, all the while the Emperor is by his side looking over his son with a smile.

[@anxioussamurai9017]

One of your best videos yet, Rho! I wanted nothing more than to see Magnus accept the Emperor's offer and come back into the Imperium, which made knowing the outcome all the more devastating.

[@blazednlovinit]

Emperor: Your sons are already damned Arumen: Hold my staff Interestingly, the thousand sons, as standards would have "warp familiars" which would help them cast their spells and rituals. Each would have it's own pet warp creature, which of course turned out to be malicious demons. Magnus is the only one who didn't seem to use one, his powers needed no demonic augmentations. Is this why Magnus can be saved can his legion cannot? Or is it just because Big E needs magnus for his golden throne and he's prepared to forgive Magnus and only Magnus?

[@carlstanford7607]

Excellent book. Just finished it and have to say that Magnus was damned for doing the right and honourable thing. Truly tragic

[@AdamMichalMarkowski]

Seeing how Emperor really doesn't seem to have best way with people I start to somehow feel he deserved to be a tormented vegetable for 10k years. Guys below brought up excellent point about using stasis on Magnus legion and wait for possible way to save them - which in 40k seems to be plenty.

[@lordfrostwind3151]

I have long thought that the flesh change was not a flaw within the geneseed as it sounds too much like the transformation into a Chaos Spawn. I think what happened was when their pysker powers awakened the Thousand Sons were much more powerful than most legion librarians but didn't have the discipline or training to avoid the perils of unrestrained warp use. So when Tzeentch and Magnus made their original bargain it was less about stopping the mutation vs allowing them to use their power without fear of consequences. So in this case the Emperor's point is the legion is hopelessly doomed by the powers the wield and as they have demonstrated they won't abandon the use of their powers even if it is their only hope for survival as we saw during the burning of Prospero when Ahriman specifically warned them not to and they still did anyway. So they would need to be culled and started from scratch lest their same mistakes at carelessly utilizing their gifts would taint the new legionnaires.

[@septicsauce322]

Magnus needs one really big hug.

[@pieceofschmidtgamer]

Malcador, the Emperor's Bro for Life.

[@messihr]

Let it be said that Vulkan has defeated 2 of the most powerful Primarchs in combat. No one can say his success in the Primarch tournament on this channel was a fluke.

[@LeonisLupusRex]

Why did Big E not just say the sons of Magnus are doomed but they can go out in a blaze of glory as humans fighting for mankind rather then geting turnd into monsters praise the Emperator as much as you want he is an idiot sometimes.

[@jimvenanzio6561]

The Emperor of Mankind did that to the Thunder Warriors, and Magnus probably heard about that fiasco... or Tzeench would have given him that image. Tzeentch: And where did that take you? Right back to me. I am truly Inevitable, JUsT As pLaNnEd!!!"

[@kccustodes2618]

This novel is so good. I have prediction that there is going to be a few serious surprises to come before the Siege of Terra is over, cannon shattering changes. I can't wait!

[@Archon3960]

Sanguinius being killed by Big E. after black-raging the sh8t out of Horus maybe? 😀

[@marshaledrek71]

This story comes back to the basic fact of all the primarchs that fell to Chaos, they had flaws they could not, in the end, overcome. It is an excellent story, Magnus's journey is one of the best of his traitor brothers. So far he got the closest to redemption, but like the others, still fell short to those flaws.

[@MajinOthinus]

Was his love for his sons a flaw though? The Emperor would and did sacrifice all for humanity's sake, Magnus would and did sacrifice all for the sake of his sons. And both knew this.

[@Dreadbringer]

Heavy and intense...still, the Emperor's choice was a hardcore one, many would have turned It down, but It was the correct one after all, sad but true, the duel between brother's Is such a classic emotional rainbow wave.

[@2saisai]

This is just sad. Damned if you do, Damned if you don't. The price is just too high. I didn't read the novel but i feel that even magnus and vulcan's fight is mostly going through the motion while both are having their hearts ache from the situation the gods of chaos had put them. Its hard to root for any of them. I well defiantly buy the novels.

[@ericasandberg7286]

A hard choice, one that the Emperor and Malcador could make but the primarchs are to human to do. I belive the Emperor tried but in the end it was hopless.

[@kerbal666]

We might have to replace Arnie giving a thumbs up at the end of T2 as the only acceptable moment a man can cry with this!

[@chrisludwig4698]

It’s interesting that I had the same thought. The Eldar had souls captured in stones, and wondered why Magnus and even Arhiman hadn’t made the connection for how many times they had fought. Then again, using their armor as the vessel may be what they were thinking.

[@carlosfreitas1722]

I was hopping for a better described fight. Like the one between dorn and alpharius or the one with the lion and conrad kurze

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

I thought it was particularly good. Heavy on the emotions, not so much on the actual attacks. It works for me.

[@Dreadbringer]

Well Magnus vs Vulkan Is like mage against tank, so the More to imagination the better, but Lion & Curze were both vicious killers and renown Warriors so More detail Is better.

[@BrotherCairus]

Chaos: We have an army! Imperium: We have a Vulkan

[@Duppyman695]

Vulkan Smash!

[@chaerosarts]

I'm yet at the book fourteen of Horus Heresy, though from all my readings on the lore from both 30 and 40K can assure that McNeil is by far the best of all the WH writers ever to be!!!

[@MasterCommandCEO]

Master Piece of a story.

[@RispinMedia]

I haven't read this book yet, just finished Fallen Angels and I'm reading them in order of release. So far Thousand Sons has been my favourite by a long way. Can't wait to hear the follow up! I'll come back to watch the video after I eventually get this far!

[@draculwalker1892]

This was so brutal and so hard even though I knew what was happening it still hurtz ! Great video as alwayz brother🩸🤘🏻

[@TurbanCatMccoy]

Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Magnus The Wise?

[@Kareszkoma]

18:15 I think the "soul" here means more like the integrity of the "mind". Not the actual warpstuff. As at this point, most primarchs were at a point of madness, insanity, or beyond it. They were getting crazy, bloody, and just chaos inflicted. Their mind surely eroding away. But not Magnus. He is, even at this point, as broken he is, more sane than his traitor brothers.

[@colescott9982]

I heard the audiobook soooooo good

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

Jonathan Keeble is the GOAT! such emotion in that last confrontation!

[@eichler721]

Magnus is my favorite traitor Primarch. Konrad is more badass and has no shits given. Such great characters

[@0nan-Son-of-Juda-Brother-of-Er]

Alpharius and Omagon still in command of their own souls And actually still on the side of the Emperor covertly

[@gadrielvanorion9872]

i do think though magnus can be redeemed in current times, just unify his lost shards with the main magnus and give him a choice again but this time by guilliman,

[@chrisbennett6236]

Magnus of all the traitors did not want to be a traitor. He fought tooth and nail but in the end his lack of faith in himself was his undoing.

[@tarnishchris]

I want to read the words "with that said' let's just jump straight in" in a 40k novel' just as a nod to the wolf lord

[@jakkard5026]

"ThErE iS nO SoLuTiOn fOr ThE FlEsH cHaNgE"- Welp, that sure as hell didn't stop Ahriman from trying, and he got pretty darn close to it. Also, god damit, he could have allowed for the thousands to return to the fold and just like, let them pass out in peace, take care of them till they die naturally or in battle and that's it, THEN you can move on to the other version of the legion, no need to flush them out just like that. Maybe if someone wasn't a repeated backstabbing asshole that solves all his problems by genociding his own troops after they've been used and spent...

[@blazednlovinit]

Yes let them pass out in peace Peace: [Tzeenchian chaos spawn constantly mutating, spewing purple fire and emanating psychic fuckery against his once allies]

[@jakkard5026]

@@blazednlovinit yes, but you can still not put them into battle, you can just quarantine them somewhere else and deal with them like you would with a sick person. It's still good for the battle because at least those same guys won't be fighting for the enemy.

[@flameknightplayz2939]

@@blazednlovinit STC that can cure all gene flaws and diseases exists, Drukhari even stole some of them. Emps just gave up, and forced them to even more sorcery when human tech can be found buried with data banks that can analyze and cure the gene mutation of the thousand sons.

[@Duppyman695]

I believe the Yanari leader cured some of the Rubrics just to show Ahriman it could be done!

[@jasonbrule7761]

Subscribed. For someone new to the universe, your descriptions and speculations are wonderful. Great channel!

[@chitterlingsrtasty]

Read this one recently. It is definitely one of my favorites. Right up there with the first three.

[@rasenshuriken7325]

Just added those two books on my audible playlist

[@ItamarO93]

When you look at the traitors, they range from the obvious (Angron, Curze) to the oddity (Fulgrim, Horus), but not Magnus. Magnus's fall was a tragedy.

[@kelman727]

Perturabo does break his pledge to Horus, however. In Mortis Pert tells him to sod off and withdraws all IW from the siege.

[@andrewbyrne2173]

One of my favourite things he did.

[@vulkansfire9234]

I felt after this book a magnus redemption was impossible. He still had his soul and his sanity, and his father was right there giving his best offer. Now 10k years in the future with magnus having giving everyone to Tzenthch what could lure him back to the light. In all seriousness now I think the only Primarchs that could have/ can be redeemed are Perterabo, Curze, and Alpharius ( that last one tho I’m iffy if he needs redemption)

[@sindrimyr5351]

both Pert and Magnus are daemon princes. there is no turning back from that..their souls are literally devoured by the gods and replaced with warp energy..nit just any warp energy but a fragment of the gods own essence. they are an extensio of their gods. if they were still mortal there would stand a slim chance.....but even then it never happened once warhammer (only in Age of sigmar). But redemtion for a daemon prince? nope impossible.

[@vulkansfire9234]

@@sindrimyr5351 I firmly doubt that that their souls are well and truly gone. For example each God has their own fragment of Horus` soul in their realms eternally completing the challenge he was set on Molech. And its rumored that the all the souls of devoured Eldar can be still recovered once Slannesh is killed. And its very likely that the souls of Primarchs are so valuable that they are kept by their God as both assurance of loyalty or as a trophy like Horus` soul fragments are. So following that logic Perterabo could be redeemed and brought back but that would take a lot from either the Emperor or someone else, but who knows how that works or if it does. Magnus is gone there is no way for him to be brought back, even if he was returned to humanity he is a traitor and wont abandons his sons. Magnus, Mortarion, Angron, Fulgrim, Lorgar, definently Horus, and maybe even Perterabo are all lost and should be given true deaths as quickly as possible.

[@sindrimyr5351]

@@vulkansfire9234 Unless they change it in siege of Teraa...Horus is gone...for good....The emperor obliterated hissoul for good so that the gods can't bring him back and manipulate him again. The souls of the Primarchs are devoured and taken by the gods...they are no longer useful to the gods other than for food. the thing that gives them control over the Primarchs (traitors obviously) is precisely that. There is nothing left of it, only the warp power they are infused with. And all the basis for the eldar souls are Myths from a race that mythologixzed their entire history where they can't distinguish myth from history. And if they pull this off with the eldar (which I doubt since GW basically dropped the Ynnari author and the book series as a whole about them) it will be what? another Aos scenario with slaanesh? Again? If GW actually pulls some shit like..."oh yes a primarch turns loyal, regrets all his deed and gets his soul back" they will put bad fanfiction writters to shame. It hopefully is something we will never get to see.

[@wwpark]

The emperor’s weakness was as a father and his humanity. Had he been a better father, fewer sons would have turned.

[@zoryan7055]

Is it very bad that I can imagine this as an episode fom Alphabusa and at some point the emperor calling him chicken boy or something?

[@allunt8170]

Magnus: Where are the Custodies? Emper: I have sent them away. They were trying to rub my abs with body oil!

[@matthew92604]

With his staff gripped in fury, Magnus towered over the seated form of the Emperor. Magnus finally falters and lowers both his staff and head. "No balls" - whispers the Emperor into Magnus' mind.

[@Brainlags]

So as someone who hasn't been into the lore for too long, I need something clarified. As far as I understand Magnus right now is shattered into several shards, one being the demon prince, one being a grey knight and so on. These shards can consume each other to regain the parts of the others, meaning at some point it is possible that they become whole again. So if the shard of magnus the grey knight, defeats and consumes the shard of magnus the demon prince, isn't there still a possibility for magnus to be redeemed and regain all his shards, rejoining the empire?

[@internetpleb4854]

It was because of magnus that the emperor was imprisoned on the Golden Throne but perhaps the Golden Throne can be the key to redemption for Magnus of not for the Emperor as well. Would you like to know more?

[@KingBronzeL]

I would have offered Magnus to do the deed myself, but in return he needed to do something to honor the previous legion so their names would not be forgotten.

[@jeffrobinson8167]

Loved this book just finished it and i have mortis arriving today gonna be a good weekend

[@merijnvanderpoel5439]

The emperor told him he would get a new legion. Maybe he meant the gray knights there? please let me know your opinion

[@blazednlovinit]

Grey Knights arent a legion and I think 40k theories already did a video on this :)

[@kelman727]

Plainly Grey Knights, since legion is the norm at this time regardless of size.

[@macfin4862]

'Even one would be too many'- Magnus within hours of eviscerating one of his sons

[@doometernal9427]

I loved you father, magnus wept That part always gets me

[@Stein871]

Alfabusa becomes cannon

[@alexandercarter1228]

Honestly still my favorite books of the siege of terra and you are absolutely right about the book. The ultimatum still doesn’t exactly agree with me but I couldn’t find anything else it could have been. And a second note. How haven’t we talked about the grey knights being ‘fixed’ traitor gene seed??

[@peterga3658]

i wish magnus came back .. he is the olny one deserve it

[@emperor002002]

Magnus is the best of them all.

[@anikidwolfy]

I think Magnus passed the test by refusing the emperor's offer, its a temptation lesson.