MOST FUNDED FOOD-RELATED KICKSTARTER?: Meticulous Review

Here are my thoughts 2 months in with the newest espresso machine to hit the market!
TIME CUES:
0;00- Imtro
1:30- Overview and Thermal Stability
6:10- App Interface Overview
9:05- Planned Changes in V10
10:35- How it Pulls
12:20- Hardware durability
13:30- Mechanics of a Lever Machine
16:30- Water Chemistry
17:05- Messed Up First Shot
22:55- Blooming Espresso
30:10- Turbo Shot #1
35:00- Turbo Shot #2
39:50- Start Options Update
41:45- More Updates Coming
44:50- Thermal Testing
52:50- Kickstarter Disclaimer
58:35- Temperature Control vs. Decent
1:00:14- Wrap-Up
1:02:30- Beatbox Break
1:02:55- FOMO?
1:03:25- Matrix screen (no tests, just overview)
1:04:25- Bye Hugo
1:04:45- Back now or wait and see?
LINKS
__________________
Join my Patreon community at:
/ lancehedrick
Find me on IG at:
/ lancehedrick
Find me on Facebook at:
/ lancehedrickcoffee
My storefront: www.amazon.com/shop/lancehedrick
__________________

[@LanceHedrick]

Thanks for watching the video! Let's chat in the comments below. Will try to answer what I can about what I may have missed! (psst- like and subscribe plssss)

[@BBB_025]

Love the stream! I am very excited for this machine, I think it is going to be very helpful in providing espresso nerds with access to feature packed machines at ever lower price points. I always thought if I was going to do espresso at home, it would be a Decent or bust. Realistically, my spouse would probably never allow me to spend multiple thousands on a machine. So a machine with so much control for $1,500 MSRP is very exciting. If I was shopping for an espresso machine and I had the budget, this would be the one. I am still not convinced I want to do espresso at home, for all the reasons Daddy Hoff mentions, but machines like this are making it more likely that I will someday try to do espresso at home.

[@LuckyDragon289]

3:00 Content begins 4:30 Gear used 4:45 Meticulous machine overview, emphasis on thermal stability 9:10 App interface overview 12:05 Magnetic cap 12:40 Planned changes to start button, drip tray, modular scale 13:35 How does the machine pull shots? 15:20 Machine estimated lifespan, hardware durability 16:30 Mechanics of a lever machine 19:30 Water chemistry 20:05 Prepping first shot (wrong profile used) 25:55 Prepping second shot (adding Lotus Water Drops + workflow) 29:50 Shot begins (blooming profile w/ graphs) 32:45 Purge + refill 33:10 Prepping third shot (turbo profile) 36:30 Shot begins (w/ graphs) 38:00 Prepping fourth shot (turbo #2) 41:30 Shot begins (no graphs shown) 42:50 Start options (instantaneous vs. confirmed start) 44:45 Additional notes (hardware & software revisions for final model) 46:40 Manual shot control with knob 47:50 Thermal testing 55:50 Kickstarter disclaimer, founder's history 1:01:35 Temperature control vs. Decent 1:03:14 Wrap-up, going through live comments (semantic discussion on lever vs. piston-driven) 1:04:45 Showing off the side profile 1:05:30 Musical interlude 1:05:55 Addressing FOMO concerns 1:06:25 Matrix screen (no tests, just overview) 1:07:25 Bye Hugo 1:07:45 Back now or wait and see?

[@LanceHedrick]

THANK YOU! I'll be implementing this asap. Was going to get to it soon but you made my life easier.

[@LuckyDragon289]

@@LanceHedrick Thanks for all of your hard work in getting this video out before the KS deadline!

[@jessewells3703]

I mean people can argue the lever comment, but from an engineering standpoint it is using a lever. That piston is driven down by a lever being pushed by a motor on the back end. So though it may not be like classic lever machines, it is using a lever and fulcrum. Therefore it is the correct terminology.

[@maheshprabhu]

Exactly, the point is they are not using a pump and have all the benefits of a lever machine.

[@michaelcibula9552]

Lance this was so so good. Thank you for taking the time! I too am a backer. By the way you doing live seems like one of your cut videos. You have such talent. As always thank you for your efforts.

[@mehrdadhaghighi5140]

I appreciate you putting in the work and time for this video. Very well done! Actually watched the entire video as I backed the project a while ago and I can't wait for it to arrive in December :D

[@mehrdadhaghighi5140]

@@djoh99 Not yet, as they ran into quite a lot of issues they are still fixing. Hoping to get it in May now…

[@coffeecove7058]

Thanks for another great video. I backed the Meticulous at the super early bird, which was $1200. Went to $1300 after that and not sure what it is now. The more videos I watch about it the more stoked I get and cannot wait. This will be my first real espresso machine. (unless I get too impatient and by the BDB lol).

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I don't think you mentioned it but with the larger reservoir the plan is to also add the feature where you can actually fill it up once, and without purging, pull two typical 18g in 36g out shots in a row. Based on the shot you pulled here which looked like a pretty big one, and the equally large amount out with the purge, it seems like you could actually already achieve two shots with the amount of water in there.

[@lore6803]

Great video as always. I know live can be more stressful, but they're very fun.

[@Victor47930]

This is awesome - thanks for this too. You're on a roll! It seems like at some point soon we'll all be talking about how to control puck erosion (pattern and rate) to maximize taste. 🤣

[@shawnsgear]

Thanks so much for the video! When the machine is purging water from the previous shot, does it also clean the shower screen? I normally purge my shower screen without the Portafilter attached between shots.

[@jakelannetti3128]

Lance, the stache is lookin 🔥 machine looks dope and the jingle all the way reference gave me all the nostalgia I can handle for one day. It’s God work you’re doing, sir.

[@NwinDii]

The speed of the back to back shots is quite impressive even with it heating the water. Not that I would personally make use it that often. But yes there are many green flags with this Kickstarter compared to others. We have seen the several prototypes they have manufactured and now it is a matter of just scaling up productions after the design is finalized. It would be nice if there was a longer warranty of say 2 or 3 years at least but it is the first launch. Thanks to your for your hard work producing content in response to the community's worries but also excitement.

[@LanceHedrick]

thank you! I try my hardest to ensure I have the best interest of the community in mind. Taxing during the recent weeks, but worth it!

[@ssheng]

thanks as always Lance. Is it possible to pouring in hotter water to reducing the prep time?

[@Beb0ptrane]

@lanceHedrick do you think meticulous could survive a pop up event or small low foot print shop with their upcoming version 10. I heard the water chamber for ver10 is now 150ml so you could do 2 shots in one fill..TIA.

[@andreas7278]

Is the steam wand on the meticulous milk proper cool touch, i.e. double isolated?

[@alexanderz8052]

Hmmm wondering if I should jump in for the last hours of early bird or get the slightly more pricey ascaso steel duo pid which also has a milk steamer. With the meticulous steamer I'd be at the same price point.

[@showclassthenstitch]

Amazing Video Lance. Really looking forward to this machine which, also thanks to you, will be paired with a Zerno!

[@shayhayun6736]

Thanks for the review!

[@dclmx]

So, I did not see the live, but saw the whole thing after. Seems like workflow is pretty good. I am curious though, do you think a second handle, similar to the DECENT design to insert the portafilter would make sense? Again thanks for all the great vids.

[@omarbazavilvazo4660]

Thanks for putting the video together !

[@AR-jx1sy]

Just fantastic content!!

[@adv1sory]

Where can I get the dosing tray?

[@DileepaRanawake]

This machine is awesome. I love the engineering simplicity behind it, the aesthetics, the functions and that you can get a steamer separate. If they can get this under $1500 I can imagine it will be one of the best selling machines in the world and completely annihilate the competition for home baristas. Thanks lance for the video. Would love to see how repairable it will be (eg if pump goes) and what routine maintenance is like. Also noticed Lance didnt flush the group before a new shot - wouldn’t that contaminate the subsequent shot with old grinds still on the brew head?

[@allenstewart8218]

Are you going to get the Version 10 Meticulous before it actually ships?

[@Gismotronics]

Love how quiet it is. I would buy one. Still not in production but should be soon I think.

[@Marvin060591]

Is there any chance you're doing a review of the production model / v10 soon?

[@eszlsk]

Will have to watch tomorrow. How's the p100? I just got mine a few days ago and absolutely love it! Much fluffy ground goodness.

[@darylfortney8081]

Wha's great to see is it's clear they are really listening to feedback and making significant changes to satisfy the desires. I was very interested in ordering one but alas I decided I don't really need another espresso machine until my Slayer kicks the can. Might align nicely with v2 once they work out all the issues.

[@LanceHedrick]

ha! Yeah. if you have a slayer, makes sense lol

[@mattdeegan2703]

What are the dimensions of the machine?

[@s96822]

20:26 look like lots of disconnected drops despite all the distribution gadgets. it cannot steam milk?

[@krislombardi436]

Hi @Lance, it's been noted that the Met produces less crema than most traditional coffee machines. Have you noticed this during your testing, particularly for standard shots? Thanks mate.

[@paulevo511]

I would also really like to hear Meticulous users' thoughts on this point.

[@mulch1839]

I feel like this is a lost opportunity. One, wouldve liked to have seen this when KS was still open. #2 i feel a water in line in the back with a spot for a canister filter like in a fridge wouldve been a relatively easy addition to this. Especially with the gap thats already in the back of the machine. With a port right above the reservoir.

[@samuelpearson]

So.... to whomever is willing to answer (preferably those with the Flair 58). I backed the Kickstarter for meticulous espresso, now I know this is a completely different beast to something like the Flair 58, however (and this is my question), In terms of versatility and quality of espresso, is something like the Flair 58 a more worthwhile option, when you consider the risks of Kickstarter?

[@Bebere]

Do most levers have significantly declining temperature profiles? If so, how do you expect the Meticulous' flatter temperature profile to affect its ability to replicate other levers in terms of taste? Also, how does the shots' body compare to shots from other machines? Thanks!

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I've heard from someone flat temperature profiles are superior, but who knows. It might be similar. I'm not sure if it's still actively heated as the shot pulls, but I suggest maybe having an option to turn the heaters off as the shot starts, so you can have the option of a slightly declining temperature profile, shouldn't be too hard to program in!

[@kellynkarr6270]

Lance, what grinder is that? Also, thanks for your kickass content.

[@STROND]

That was an awesome coffe emachine !

[@glengoodwin]

Thanks Lance! Huge props to you x

[@LanceHedrick]

thank you!

[@altanar6616]

Do anyone knows when v10 will be released?

[@PaddyCull9]

Hey Lance, love your videos. You mentioned the first meticulous you had broke and you needed a replacement - is that something you’d be concerned about when this is going to be mass produced , and is it something that they are going to try to fix or mitigate in the final version? Thanks!

[@LanceHedrick]

No- it was just a busted seal. Nothing major. Very easy to fix even if it did happen. I don't think it should be an issue in the updated group but that's just a guess!

[@PaddyCull9]

@@LanceHedrick cool, thanks for the response! 🙂

[@filmalchemistfish472]

Hey Lance, thanks again for such informative intro! You mentioned that you are more into lever machines lately, just wondering for you and your standard, do lever shots tend to taste better compare to a steam machine when pulled right?

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Lever machines are more forgiving generally especially ones where you have feedback and can adjust pressure on the fly, but people do seem to prefer their profile, supposedly they give more body but that might be due to most lever machines being 49mm, 51mm where you have a smaller but deeper basket, but I think there's something said that most people who run a Decent espresso machine will be emulating different Lever machine profiles, which it can try to replicate but doesn't really do 100%. I also see a lot of people who move on from their Decent machines and end up buying high end lever machines!

[@filmalchemistfish472]

@@BensCoffeeRants many thanks! Good to know as I am diving into levers too

[@tzetv]

Thanks @LanceHedrick - really enjoying your content! - Have been a backer that almost pulled out until M/E decided to provide their $ return guarantee so we can track the progress of development. I think apart from not feeling the pull of a lever (which I am probably over); my main concern remaining is whether V10 will ensure that the top of the water reservoir is NOT made of aluminium so that no water contacts Al - its a huge health concern for many and hope it is addressed..

[@JoeSchwa]

According to the FAQ: Are the machine’s materials food safe? Yes the machine is food safe. The internal structure is made from corrosion resistant steel. Everything that touches the water directly is stainless steel.

[@tzetv]

@@JoeSchwa yes - but unclear if the black topper funnel is AL or SS -

[@tzetv]

@@JoeSchwathey have confirmed on KS v10 has a large cylinder so shouldn’t need to overfill. However the black part is Aluminium on top. Hopefully they reconsider this

[@scottsil]

What is the concern with Aluminum coming in contact with water? I have not heard of any health concerns around this but am curious.

[@tzetv]

@@scottsil - Aluminium health concerns relating to Alzheimers - not proven as yet, but would rather avoid where possible

[@DH-bf9xb]

Your espresso "boops" are adorable.

[@Js-ng3nm]

Thanks lance! Wanted to ask how is the pressure stability on the TPD? Is it stably and accurate?

[@LanceHedrick]

Yes! Yes it is.

[@Js-ng3nm]

@@LanceHedrick Good to hear that! That was actually my main concern with the machine since it’s uses a new way to create pressure. I think it would be great if you can share some testing of that, maybe with decline or incline pressure.

[@danielchin8073]

Nice to see Hugo! He's an excellent videographer.

[@OrenUrbach]

Hi Lance, great to hear more about this machine! Where did you get that spinning WDT?

[@Caffeine.And.Carvings]

New release by weber workshop

[@heshbaby1]

*New release by Barista Hustle, The Autocomb

[@PtWhiteBelt]

Answer is literally in the 1st few minutes.

[@williambaker7181]

An automatic flair, basically?

[@pitno716]

What's that autoleveler/wdt? you're using? And great video as always!

[@LanceHedrick]

it's called the autocomb! new product coming soon from barista hustle!

[@pitno716]

Got it, looks interesting, any thoughts on the weber one?

[@wytties3399]

why paper and puckscreen??? i've seen videos from Espressofun and he had channeling and "donat" issues. what's your experience?

[@LanceHedrick]

He comes to very unique conclusions, ones I more often than not disagree with. Puckscreen is largely for cleanliness but I suspect it helps slightly with horizontal extraction. Bottom filter objectively helps with more even extraction. Doughnuts aren't bad necessarily. Even with them, edges are still underextracted.

[@wytties3399]

@@LanceHedrick thx for your answer. mostly i drink very dark neapolitan espresso. do you think the machine is suitable for that?

[@altepost22]

espressofun had channeling and donut issues because he had a machine with a defect temperature sensor in the brewhead. This was found out and discussed in one of his later videos. He just continued testing with the defect sensor to see what he could get out of it.

[@LanceHedrick]

@@wytties3399 sure!

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@altepost22 Not sure how the temperature sensor would cause donut extractions, but I think he was complaining the shower wasn't even it was coming out of one side and was getting channeling on one side. I Forget if he was using a puck screen but that might help. Ideally a good shower pattern would be best.

[@ajleonardi]

Do you always have to purge into a glass, or is there a drip tray to purge into?

[@LanceHedrick]

Drip tray. I just didn't want the mess while on live

[@ajleonardi]

@@LanceHedrick thanks for the reply and the video! What do you think the decent offers that this won’t (assuming the meticulous team continues to work on and improve the software)?

[@ajleonardi]

Ahhh just got to the part where you talked about the temp profiling.

[@RegrinderAlert]

@@ajleonardi Basically temp profiling and longer ratios for filter coffee. Meticulous reservoir is not quite big enough for things like Filter 3.0

[@ajleonardi]

@@RegrinderAlert thanks!

[@user-es7lp1cp5e]

Anyone knows who made that WDT tool?

[@RegrinderAlert]

Barista Hustle AutoComb - not released yet

[@madbananaman13]

Lance, please read my mind and let me know. Would I be happier with a zerno with mpv2 burrs or a p100 with HU and £1500 in my pocket? It feels ridiculous that I will spend so much money without getting to try either product out

[@scd6969]

This is a machine that exists because it can.

[@klumzyninjaq2643]

The more I see Ugo the more I like him.

[@wilsentwins]

What is the portafilter size sir?

[@FlyingFormosa]

58mm

[@arthurcampos9016]

I love jingle all the way

[@carlossanchez8534]

Are you able to or have you been able to test just the water quality after it is heated and passes through the aluminum? Does the water change its chemical properties ? Does the aluminum add any contaminants? Ty Lance

[@JoeSchwa]

From the official FAQ: Are the machine’s materials food safe? Yes the machine is food safe. The internal structure is made from corrosion resistant steel. Everything that touches the water directly is stainless steel.

[@davidrogala7597]

cool!

[@mitchdoescoffee]

Meticulous question... Early espresso days, I was tought not to let the coffee sit in the grouphead before extraction for too long re: unwanted thermal brewing. While waiting for the Meticulous grouphead to get upto temperature, do you think this is something we should keep in mind? 32:20

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Espresso Fun, Robert Aloe guy leaves his in there to heat up for an extended period of time, but he's pulling some weird style shots most people don't do. I just asked him about that, because the previous idea like you said was you don't want to pre-heat your coffee before extracting... Oh there was actually another video I saw (maybe from James Hoffman, I forget) but they did a test and microwaved the coffee (before grinding) and found heated coffee increased the extraction level, (grinding from frozen was even better though) so it might not be so detrimental as we initially thought . They did mention the taste was a little different but didn't seem like it was different in a bad way.

[@mitchdoescoffee]

@@BensCoffeeRants ah awesome. Thanks so much for the insight... I will definitely do some testing once I get one. I need to know!!!! Hahaha

[@BensCoffeeRants]

​@@mitchdoescoffee You could do some testing with any machine, if you have a semi reliable / consistent machine already. Use two portafilters (use the same type of baskets) grind and fill one up tamp and get it all prepped to brew, leave it locked into your hot espresso machine for a good 2-5 minutes before pulling the shot, while it's 'preheatnig' prepare a 2nd shot have it also tamped and ready to go but keep it cool/out of the machine. Then brew your 2nd shot and compare after the first. Shot temperature affects your perception / tastes so what I like to do is brew the first shot into a double-walled glass then when you brew a 2nd shot in to a regular espresso cup they're closer to the same temp.

[@mitchdoescoffee]

@@BensCoffeeRants Not a bad idea at all.

[@user-ge9uz9nn6j]

Have you considered 2 channels, one for the practical and one for the esoteric? I appreciate that you want to disseminate cutting edge information, and pushing the envelope will result in practical applications, but that is a much smaller audience. I do enjoy your work but find less and less application for my home situation. Diminishing returns doesn’t just pertain the money. BTW, I find Portugal an interesting choice. I was considering New Zealand or Canada.

[@davidfrankel9267]

The 2001 Space Odyssey Monolith does a good job.

[@nirvanghaempanah9410]

So curious to see how U time ur shot, from pump on or first drip

[@LanceHedrick]

depends. I always take time of the whole shot. But I might measure different parts of the shot in different amounts of time. But I always at least take full time from actuating the shot to finishing the shot!

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I think the brew ratio has more of an effect, shot timing is a good indicator to make sure you have the grind size in the right if you're using a machine that doesn't tell you if you're hitting your target pressure (8 or 9 bars etc).

[@nirvanghaempanah9410]

@@BensCoffeeRants thanks for this, my machine (Quick mill pippa) gives me the pressure and hits the 9 bar quite nicely everytime, what sadly doesn't have though is the pre-infution adjustment, not even sure if it does pre-infution or not, after all it's an entry level machine in their line up, so I normally aim for 25sec from the first drip to get my yield whatever it's based on the roast level i.e 1:2 or 1:2.5 etc, I mean I won't let the shot run longer for higher yields and stick to 25sec, most likely it's about 32-33sec if I were to time from the pump on. I'm newbie in this espresso world, appreciate your thoughts.

[@nirvanghaempanah9410]

@@LanceHedrick thanks Lance, your vids are so informative and enjoyable to watch:)

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@nirvanghaempanah9410 That timing is very reasonable, if it tastes good you're good. If it's sour run the shot even longer (more out in the cup), if it's bitter stop it earlier to get a shorter shot.

[@Noyb266]

HUGO YOU FORGOT TO QUEUE THE B-ROLL

[@lonelyfarmer]

Liking the beatbeat box. It will be cool if you can incorporate that as a background intro and outro for your videos. :)

[@BensCoffeeRants]

The meticulous milk is an extra cost / add on, saying it comes with it makes it seem like it's free, but it is also discounted for the Kickstarter vs retail pricing. Is temperature profiling really a big thing, I don't hear too many people talking about it, I remember asking someone and they said a machine with a good STABLE temperature seems to pull better shots than declining or inclining temperatures. But who knows. I'm sure Decent owners have experimented with temperature profiling? Have you ever tried? Idea for another video?

[@Or44931]

For me the automatic compensation of the temperature that the decent machine does is really important.The temperature you set is a target for getting the puck temperature as close as possible to the target you set by measuring a probe that is above to the coffee puck. In practice it can pour higher temperatures at first,then lower and then higher again but It depends on your flow rate,it can behave very differently if you use slow flow,or higher flow. It affects the taste significantly. In my experience the first temperatures you try is much closer to the ideal temperature for that specific coffee bean you used, compared for boiler flat temperature.Also a small change of 1-2c of temperature on flat boiler temperature will change the taste much more then on the decent.On the decent I change the temperature by no less then 3c ,higher or lower and rearly change it more then once on specific coffee beans .On boiler flat temperature I tend to change much more times to get to the best taste that it can produce and it still tastes worse than on the descent. It makes dialling much faster as it helps you to focus on changing other parameters like pre infusion flow rate,time, pressure and more. Most of the time I change only one parameter each shot to understand better how it affects the taste .

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@Or44931 yeah temperature profiling is cool, and you do actually use it and see benefits from it? But it adds a whole lot more complexity vs just bumping up the temp a degree or two if the coffee is a bit too acidic or dropping the temp if it's too bitter.

[@Or44931]

@@BensCoffeeRants What I wrote is only about one temperature target on the decent for whole profile and not setting different temperature target for different time in the shot. When you set for example a temperature target of 90c it won't pour 90c but try to get the water around the probe that is above the coffee puck to 90c, not the water before entering the group head like a boiler does . You do not need to do anything except set one temperature. As I wrote, a change of 1c in the temperature on the decent is much less noticeable than on a boiler machine. So if you change 1-2c on the machine with boiler, you will need to change more like 3-4c on the descent at one time. On boiler flat temperature I tend to change much more times to get to the best taste that it can produce, and it still tastes worse than on the descent. It makes dialling much faster as it helps you to focus on changing other parameters like pre infusion flow rate, time, pressure and more. Most of the time I change only one parameter each shot to understand better how it affects the taste. Take into account that the decent temperature compensation is not prefect as it relay on a probe that is above the puck and not inside, as you can not put a probe inside the coffee . Also, the probe surround by hot brass. I tend to do a first step of 2 seconds with 3-5c lower than the rest of the shot. Decent is going to sell a water diffuser made with PPS plastic that replace the brass water diffuser that surround the probe above the puck. I think that it will improve the accuracy of the water compensation, and it will be much cleaner.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@Or44931 when I used the Decent briefly I didn't exactly read instructions but it seemed like it was tricky to adjust overall temp quickly I tried doing that and then realised it was only for the initial fill temp I changed. I heard other skins make it easier to change though. I was just thinking maybe that's why it makes less of a difference on the Decent but you probably know what you're doing better than I did with that machine (only played with it a bit at a coffee roaster a few times). I think the meticulous is going to be like the Decent if you're just making the simple temp change from 199f to 201f for example. The thing it cant do which I'm not sure many people really understand or have experimented with is how it works if you go starting the shot at 204f and in the middle dip to 195 at the end maybe go to 198f along with pressure profiling at the same time it's going to get complicated. A simple declining profile or inclining would be fun to experiment with though keeping other variables the same. Maybe give that a shot if you haven't. Get a coffee dialed in you like. Try one shot starting hot ending up cool. Another starting cooler ending up hotter, and compare to a steady brew temp. I know temperature changes (speed and accuracy) are dependent on the flow rate too but it doesn't have to be perfect.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@Or44931 Ah I get it now, what you were saying is the Decent has like active temperature target, so it adjusts on the fly so the temperature should be more consistent. That's cool, besides the initial drop in temp though as the hot water meets the cooler coffee bed and basket, for most part I think the temperatures should be pretty stable in the Meticulous. Most lever machines work in a similar way where you have an chamber above the coffee that fills with water from the boiler and it drops all the water into the brew chamber and the piston forces it through. So those classic lever machines likely have a slightly declining temperature profile, and people seem to enjoy them!

[@BensCoffeeRants]

The setting of 89c (192f) is pretty low vs on most espresso machines, were the shots from light roasts which I assume is mostly what you're using, coming out nicely still even at that low temperature? I thought it's weird Decent espresso machines also have a lower default temperature although still higher than 89c I think it was like 91c? And I did a few shot comparisons between the GS/3 at a higher temp (201f I think) and Decent and thought the Decent shots were turning out OK but noticed more sourness until I turned it up just a degree or two (which turns out wasn't so simple and I actually just turned it up for the initial filling temperature not the whole extraction!) but still seemed to improve things, but didn't get too much time to play around with those machines to reach any real conclusions.

[@jackaw1197]

I think it has to do with measuring temperature in different places. I know the decent tried to measure temperature right in the grouphead millimeters from the coffee, but more traditional machines measure it in the boiler. There is some loss in temperature from the boiler to the shower screen so the temperatures are "different" even if they mean the same thing

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@jackaw1197 that's what the Decent espresso machine people say that their temperature readings are more accurate but I don't buy it. That means the typical 195-205f brew temp range is wrong? All the people setting their espresso machines to 200f are really brewing at 190 or 185f? My old rocket hx machine had a pid and instead of guestimating the brew temp it woild give you actual boiler temp settings on the pid. It was 120c for what was supposed to give you 200f I think 93c at the brew group. But many machines like Breville dual boiler or ECM Synchronika let you set the actual brewing target temperature I know the Synchronika has an pid offset like the rocket machine where it's actually setting boiler temperature higher and estimating the brew temp to be 200f based on their testing (could vary with ambient temps and your power type potentially) but BDB has a heating element in the group so should be able to give you precise temps you ask for. I'm not noticing consistent over extractions at 201f on the machine!

[@jackaw1197]

@@BensCoffeeRants I mean you can overanalyse it to death if you want. But the point is that temperature effects brewing, and different machines/architectures deal with temperature differently; even more complex comparing e61/thermosiphon groups with saturated, cartridge-heated, low/high thermal mass, different thermometer positions (steam boiler, brew boiler, grouphead, above coffee), measuring with/without coffee(i.e. SCACE). Maybe the exact settings on different machines don't match exactly. But as long as you can adjust it within the relevant range, and the effect is consistent on that machine, does it really matter?

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@jackaw1197 it will matter because if were brewing at very different temperature ranges maybe the typical recommended brewing parameters like shot timing or brew ratio would be very off for some machines.

[@jackaw1197]

@@BensCoffeeRants yeah but the brew temperature is not really changing, just how you measure it and the offsets involved. At least until proven otherwise... Like if I measure your height wearing platform shoes and barefoot I'll get two different numbers but it doesn't actually mean you're a different height. And even if it was you can adjust the other parameters anyway; one of the reasons you shouldn't blindly copy recipes from one machine to another. At least from the POV of choosing a machine the exact temperature measurement doesn't really matter as long as its consistent

[@mitchdoescoffee]

The intro Zen was real. 😅

[@bigby6023]

Why is it necessary to snort the espresso?

[@LanceHedrick]

Don't

[@juanteofilogarza8029]

Lance, would you comment more on the removable scale in final version. Gracias 🙂

[@LanceHedrick]

yes! Once I can get my hands on it!

[@Aka-Chico]

I love me the devil blend

[@Eassstt]

James Hoffmann dosing cup lmao

[@MrHarlequin2316]

As always, so much knowledge used to provide information… but I can’t get past the fact that the motor is used to open the windows on submarines! 😱🧜‍♂️🐙🐠

[@bomberstudios]

What a LEGEND

[@bomberstudios]

No spoilers, but the “what was it? Oh yeah I remember” moment at the end was mind blowing

[@LanceHedrick]

thank you, Ale!

[@stebesplace]

More technology to brew espresso than what we used to go to the moon 😂

[@LanceHedrick]

One of those things actually matter to many people. The other... d*ck measuring contest lol

[@ccbroughton4]

Canceled mine a while ago. Cool product but will definitely just wait til after it launches and let people test it for a general consensus. Just doesn't seem "wise' to drop that type of mula for a product that most likely won't be in my hand this year.

[@heichi13]

Cue B roll

[@LumiLunar]

Does anyone know how tall the machine is? I’m assuming it is way too tall to fit under cabinets. Is it closer to 20 inches?

[@FlyingFormosa]

apparently the latest version will be 41 inches instead of the initial 44 inches

[@scottklandl488]

How do you say”jumped the shark in Portuguese?”

[@crawdaddyy]

Just google it bro. Why you asking the comment section

[@scottklandl488]

LOL you are apparently need to do some googling. Because this is pretty surface level comedic commentary. If you really need it explained to you just yelp for help

[@crawdaddyy]

@@scottklandl488 no one got it. So it wasn’t very surface level

[@cgirl111]

It's a positive displacement pump. Been around forever.

[@LanceHedrick]

Not in espresso machines 🥰

[@damiangrouse4564]

Window? In a submarine? Yes, that worked well a few months ago…

[@chamokc]

Why is there no steaming wand???? 90% of espresso based drinkers prefer milk, cortado, latte, cappuccino, flat white, etc etc vs espresso and americano?????? It might pull and amazing shot, but it falls short

[@HansProbs]

1:07:17 floating magic head

[@alexmAll41]

40:47 Tang it’s a kick in the glass

[@LanceHedrick]

THATS IT!

[@hshan6237]

the number of things that i backed on kickstarter that never arrived...

[@AntMelz]

Cord location kind of ruins the nice slim profile of the back.

[@LanceHedrick]

Agreed. I was saying near the end I wish it was house in the base somehow

[@DannoHung]

@@LanceHedrick They say if that's something they're gonna adjust for v10? Don't think I've seen that raised on any of the KS comments. BTW: Robert McKeon's thermal testing showing 50C at the grouphead using FLIR turned out to be a defect with one of the sensors in his Meticulous (based on his May 5 video). I think Meticulous was also communicating the external temperature setting issue to him as well, but that ended up not being the root cause for that particular problem.

[@altepost22]

Cord location will change on V10

[@JoeSchwa]

@@LanceHedrick They stated (literally an hour ago on Kickstarter comments) "the plug will be flushed so you will be able to have your Meticulous Espresso against the wall :)"

[@AntMelz]

@@LanceHedrick haven’t made it to the end. Using a moonraker for wdt?

[@sDeezyeazy]

where do you get those fucking shirts Lance

[@Caffeine.And.Carvings]

No time to watch today, will definetly watch tomorrow in full length, just so much upfront. Love the flair pro 2 and 58 to death, easy cleanup, no hard to reach parts for descaling, no electrical components that would be a hassle to replace. And you get instant direct feedback. The only downside is that you still have to boil water. So when first seeing that machine, i was super stoked that its bascially an automated flair. Went in the wrong direction imo. Why take away the biggest selling point of a levermachine (same mechanical priciple at work here). Which is direct control and the ability to mimic whatever shot profile you want, and make corrections on the fly if your ground/dose etc. is not on point. You can save shots that otherwise would be wasted. Make a watertank where the lever is, make it dispense enough water to fill the tank (preheated); both preheated to a desired target temp (like in the moccamaster for example), and have the plunger and lever go up with the water being sucked in, so that the end user is just left with the pulling. This would be peak workflow in my eyses. As far as i see this machine, they just took the worst of both worlds and made it into a machine that would be easily outclassed by a modded gaggia or an entry level boiler machine. Thinking Profitec go or even the silvia brand new. Even the early bird price seems excessive for what it is in the end. Sorry for the lenghty rant, just bitterly dissapointed with what could have been the perfect lever machine. Also dont understand the hype with what it delivers in the end. Will be interested to see if the video will change that.

[@joshuaanderson7405]

P100!! When’s the review??

[@joshuaanderson7405]

Also… I think you aren’t supposed to click the P100 clicker while it is grinding.

[@dsinglaterry]

Hey! Totally unrelated topic. I know this is in the back of your head, but could you please organize your playlists? An example would be the grinder reviews, which has newer reviews first, then older reviews, and then all the newest reviews. Also, I don't know if there are all the reviews you've made. Just a comment, thank you!

[@cheekster777]

Yo Lance! 👋🏻

[@LanceHedrick]

whatddup!

[@cheekster777]

@@LanceHedrick 👊🏻

[@dpm3740]

You can still buy Tang!

[@UKCG_2]

Submarines have windows?!? Doors perhaps?

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Just gotta remember not to roll down the windows when you're deep under seas? :D

[@karigrandii]

Definetly the future. Much smarter than having pumps. Anyways I have been saying lever machines will be the future but it might just be robotic lever machines because of you nerds

[@robz9988]

Looks great. My only reservation is that the "boiler/chamber" is aluminium rather than food grade steel. Aluminium when heated is toxic over the longer term. That's the only reason I won't buy it.

[@tzetv]

This is exactly my concern now; have asked Carlos and team to confirm as their FAQ says that all water is only in contact with steel

[@JoeSchwa]

@@tzetv Isn't the FAQ confirmation? Do you want confirmation of the confirmation? From the official FAQ: Are the machine’s materials food safe? Yes the machine is food safe. The internal structure is made from corrosion resistant steel. Everything that touches the water directly is stainless steel.

[@tzetv]

@@JoeSchwa I read it as the internal part of the reservoir; however the black topper funnel which is recommended to be filled into - is that Al or SS

[@tzetv]

They have confirmed on KS v10 has a large cylinder so shouldn’t need to overfill. However the black part is Aluminium on top. Hopefully they reconsider this

[@JoeSchwa]

@@tzetv But is not raw aluminum, correct? Isn't it anodized?

[@raitro]

... hmmm ... I wonder, it is probably me, but who needs this machine? Or any machine like this for that matter. If I want to make coffee with anything else that is either plumbable or at least has a water tank I would get an Aeropress for very little money which I can bring anywhere and almost never produces coffee that is undrinkable... And if you need espresso, just get a good dual boiler. It will last you a long time and will produce a cup, that will be as good as your grinder and your skills. Love this channel!

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I have a high end dual boiler with flow control (ECM Synchronika) as well as a small manual lever machine (Europiccola) and I'm also getting this machine, a lot of people want to experiment with different shot profiles and /or also enjoy the lever style machine. I Predicted eventually there would be more affordable machines similar to the Decent brand espresso machines, but if this turns out the way it's intended and they implement all the features talked about here, it's even better than I initially thought, especially considering it's cheaper (at least with the kickstarter pricing) than a lot of 'dumb tech' old E61 tech dual boiler machines. For testing and comparing equipment like grinders it's important to have a consistent machine to make repeatable results, so I think it would be helpful for me in that way too. The beauty of this is the thought they put into the interface, and that you can use it and get super complex with it, or choose to do a simple profile saved to the Meticulous machine without using a tablet, phone or PC etc.

[@raitro]

@@BensCoffeeRants I completely understand all of this, but I did not ask who wants this machine, but who "needs" this machine, and this is quite a different question, because I would also like to have a machine like this to "fool" around... if I had the time and space in the kitchen... :-)

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@raitro If you like one espresso blend coffee and want that consistently, with this machine just find a profile that you enjoy and (in theory) you could easily do repeatable shots with a machine like this (using less power and quicker heatup than a traditional espresso machine). So it doesn't have to be finicky or complicated, but I think you'd be missing out on a lot of potential that way by NOT experimenting with it. I feel the same way about the Decent. You technically could just use the default profile on that, press a button, pull the shot. Easier than a traditional machine if it stops at your desired weight consistently. But yeah it's not something everyone would want. I can see people not liking the idea of filling up the water reservoir like a flair for every shot (or every other shot).

[@FartFartovic]

It looks like a tombstone

[@drazenbabich]

Yeah, nah. Sticking with what I got and use at he moment. But kudos for pushing the envelope.

[@helipeek2736]

A submarine with open windows? Hhhhmmmmm not sure that, that is a positive design feature?

[@LanceHedrick]

Haha!

[@coffeeatanchor]

Content starts at 3:00

[@LanceHedrick]

yes. I am currentyl waiting on the edit to load. I have cut that part.

[@coffeeatanchor]

@@LanceHedrick Then the comment is just a qol-service for the folks watching until then :)

[@hugoferrazporto]

First! 🎉🎉

[@ssofft]

why you so quiet ?

[@LanceHedrick]

am I???

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Said no one ever about Lance :P The audio on this video was more quiet than the usual ones though. Not a big deal. You got volume control on your device hopefully :D