The Best Engine Development Tool You've Never Heard Of! Spintron

[@hendo337]

Between this and Gale Banks videos I feel like I know more than I ever learned in 20yrs of wrenching at home or with friends in the garage, street or track. Cool stuff.

[@DaveWithMS]

Several years ago I saw one of those visible V8 engines on an electric motor running 5000 RPMs. I thought having lunch motor twisting and regular engine to collect data would have been a perfect thing but I never had any idea how to develop that. And everybody thought I was crazy for even having the idea so I stopped talking about it. It's amazing to see that idea coming to life through the spintron.

[@laurean5998]

Engineering porn, it has been a long time since something made me this happy. Damn this is cool...

[@maxcactus7]

Hilarious!! I was thinking something very similar watching this, geeking out! "This is sofa king cool! It's like Christmas for enginerds and gear heads!"

[@Motoinc]

Whats about HEAT? Its differences in cold and warm valve train, especially in tolerances? Cheers from Sweden

[@perryprice3011]

That was the best presentation for engine development through data collection I've ever seen on KZbin. Great work! I long ago stopped thinking that thing's that are "solid" are solid.. Everything in this reality is fluid.

[@troyvantrienen9418]

This gave me the same “happy feels” as when I watched the d-sport clip about torque-plating heads to machine valve seats. Great information and continues to show how little I know about engines.

[@91Wildcat700]

Nascar teams have been using these machines for a while now. Sustained periods of time at 9000 RPM needs to be solid this is the perfect tool to test and develop valve train.

[@randalljames1]

Spintrons have been around since late 80s or so... nothing new, but data acquisition is what was problematic.. they started with strobes and high speed photography..

[@ellisjackson3355]

There's a video on KZbin of some heads from a Toyota nascar engine on a spintron. Sounds just like a running engine

[@jeromefreer1258]

Smokey Yunick had one here in Daytona Beach in the 50s and 60s. Peace

[@johnroberts4571]

I love it when this new generation of kids think they have something new that no one else has or had....

[@freefall0483]

Anything called a spintron had to be from the 50s.

[@Hoffbottraces]

These types have been around since the early 1990s. Bob Fox invented them. Ben’s is that with modern interface. The Spintron was instrumental in NASCAR utilizing controlled loft, going back 20 years ago.

[@RadDadisRad]

But I have heard of a spintron. Used a lot for testing rotating assemblies. I’ve used them for finding harmonic interference in mechanical equipment.

[@Mgiles1001]

Same, use them at work

[@watsisbuttndo829]

Nice vid devalued by clickbaity title.

[@georgedennison3338]

@Matthew Giles What do you test on it?

[@Hangovna]

It's awesome when someone takes engineering principals to the next level and actually gets useful concrete data from testing. Like he said many times, now you can have full confidence in designs and not just guess and check.

[@balzabro]

Having worked for a company that had its own Spintron, I can say this is a very good video. The uses of this machine are almost limitless.

[@debragibson3489]

The information available over the internet is just Amazing!!!! Equal to a concrete college classroom.....and beyond!!

[@racerd9669]

Awesome work, I have spent some time on the spintron at Comp. And let me tell you the thing will drive you crazy after a day of it screaming away. This is one thing I feel needs testing, and maybe you have done this? But if you look at all your shaft rocker systems, the shafts are always above the shaft C/L so all the bending moment is placed on the 5/16 bolts holding the shafts to the stands. What I always do is re, machine the stands to lower the shafts below the C/L , so now you are puting the stress into the stands and not just the bolts.It would be interesting to see what this does on a spintron at 10,000 rpm with 800lbs of spring load over the nose of the cam?

[@1darryloflife]

What about the effect that temperature has on the moving components?

[@mikeshab1734]

We run a heater on the oil tank to bring it to operating temperature.

[@flinch622]

Yes. Tolerances change, oil viscosity changes - valid test factors.

[@truthseeker8483]

0.45 I like the sign with University spelt Univeristy......

[@bengibson3955]

Yeah I saw that. Pmsl!

[@royevans4581]

Wow, kudos for the spot. Haha.

[@984francis]

I get annoyed by people spelling brakes as breaks.......... E.G. Slam on the breaks and take a brake. Sheesh.

[@paulcopeland9035]

"spelled" here in the colonies!

[@Sonos45]

yore crazy...

[@moariclub]

can also be used to find crank deflection, just need to add optic laser on a large disc, with same size disc at other end of motor.

[@CryptoKingpin777]

The Nicken’s Mopar NHRA Pro Stock team had a simular system in the early 2000’s, only they used a system of high speed cameras to monitor the valve train, mainly to track how many runs could be made on a set of valve springs before one would break. This set up takes it to the top! Totally Awesome!!

[@3sellers3ful]

That and to monitor float, nascar engines use float in a genius way actually, they use that float to open the valves and get them out of the way even more

[@kemosabe8313]

Probably one of the coolest things to learn on. You can definitely build a beast of a RB on that

[@kbryancourville]

Love it, back when I was a kid the one age old question was what's the best street/strip cam/ package. A lot of people asking didn't realize everything that has to be taken into consideration My first build was a Maverick grabber with a 302 with ported Windsor heads with oversize 198(I think) and 202 Chevy valves with Forged 12.5:1 TRW high domes on NOS. Did most the work myself at 21. My next build was going to be a 6:71 blown 72 Vega gt with Chevy hemi heads but the older I got the more I liked the thought of slowing down with all electric. Now Tesla, so much for slowing down. That 302 I built probably would have crossed you as a nightmare with those diesel valve guide sleaves pressed into the pushrod holes so I could over port and polish the heads. I could have used this the first few startups to figure out the correct pushrods I needed before I bent a few. My question would have been Lunati or Comp.? I could have spent forever running tests with that....

[@rotrmotr]

To put it in simple terms. There is so much WIN in this video!

[@maxtorque2277]

Takes me right back this vid! We used to do this back in the mid 1990's when i firsty started engine dev for a world famous high performance house! (today, it's all done in the virtual world in software.........)

[@randymoffitt8755]

John mihovetz,owner of accufab throttle bodies used spin tron too perfect a 4.6 ford to the tune of 250 mph in 1/4 mile👍

[@shafferjoe1962]

That was so cool. I had heard of one year's ago but had no idea what it really did. Thank you... New subscriber...

[@TheOlsonOutfit]

Up next: testing electric motors by spinning them with an internal combustion engine ;-)

[@bryanst.martin7134]

Kinda started that way...

[@FredBuildandFix]

@leif52pickup yes i have something like that already, I call it my generator😅

[@bobbysweeney5377]

@@FredBuildandFix 😂 spot on sir

[@serget2168]

Sounds better to me lol

[@ronbuckner8179]

good catch

[@GT-ew3bk]

Amazing explanation of the Spintron and it's applications. Very impressed.

[@dragbanshee1215]

That would make one hell of an air compressor!

[@MyJthom]

Anyone else get annoyed that university is spelt wrong on the banner behind him? or just me?

[@dsmcraig]

You are pretty good catching that. I had to skip back in the video to see it

[@spishwax]

They should've tested the banner on the spintron...

[@desenuts9673]

i mean now i am

[@zachsoanes6417]

was more annoyed at the windows update message that popped up near the end XD

[@paulcopeland9035]

Are you from the UK? "Spelt" as a verb is the past participle of spell in "British english". Common American use is spelled. Spelt as a noun is a type of ground wheat. And yes, university is spelled wrong. Sharp eye!

[@Tsxtasy1]

I think this is going to be the best video of 2020 for me

[@tomupchurch4911]

This guy is strong. Best video I've seen in a long long time.

[@theedge5584]

Huge step in motor building id love to have one. All the clearance and measurements issiues can be looked at and studied. Then fixed or modified. This is awesome

[@TravisG001]

Can we add boost to see how those values will react?

[@griplimit]

That’s what I was wondering. Turbocharged applications usually have a lot of back pressure between exhaust valve and turbine, which can can cause valve float (along with rpm).

[@brettelliott8674]

With no pistons nor crank, how do you plan on actually building that boost..?

[@blu0065]

The F1 folks literally used industrial compressors to build boost on their engines before attaching turbos

[@carlbossert6888]

the valvetrain is so critical, technology like this changes everything

[@tourettesfullon4406]

Love the skill,knowledge,time and effort put in to this. Just a question Do it take in to account the compression and explosion in the cylinder under load can this be programmed into the run cycle

[@kyliejm2]

That is the most engaging video I think I’ve ever watched on KZbin. Good job and thank you.

[@Jack-um6yw]

I had no idea.... I love the level of tech you have in this video!

[@Hitman-ds1ei]

Great technology and will continue to contribute to advancements in engine design, new technology ? not by a long shot, Smokey Yunick pioneered this technology and we lost "the best damn mechanic in town" back in 2001, so a shout out to the man is in order when espousing his technology that is part of his legacy.

[@xeigen2]

Let's not get carried away. Smokey was just measuring the frictional loss in the engine, getting no data about what the valves are actually doing. This thing is using lasers to measure the valves in real time. You can't say he invented it when this is so much more. With this technology you can actually develop valvetrains, not just see how much power they take to run.

[@Hitman-ds1ei]

@@xeigen2 think you need to learn how to read, I said pioneered, and he did more than measure frictional loses if you do you research, same as wright brothers pioneered flight and to alude modern aircraft not connected because technology has advanced, cudos to original thinkers, just because you expand on an original idea doesn't make it new

[@royevans4581]

Explained so well, I can guess another benefit of this is to know the properties of different materials working under various conditions to enable modifying those materials for better performance. Trying different alloys for example.

[@zepar221]

Exactly, when valve springs were hardened and could withstand 8000 RPM things like the caps were then too soft and valve stems too weak and thus the evolution of the pushrod NASCAR valve train around the turn of the century....the spintron was crucial in helping manufacturers redesign parts around improved springs and high RPMs....

[@nikolai502]

I can appreciate the opportunities this machine creates. The only way to sell these is to make the best ones

[@ryubiggie]

Why does it feel like I have seen this footage before? Still amazing info.

[@DiazJC]

Awesome, how are they factoring in the changes for real life heat on the parts?

[@stefanpetersons1878]

And cylinder pressure.. And boost..

[@steveeevee1192]

Andrew this machine is a game changer !!!

[@ralfie8801]

I wish they had a running LS that would spin up 11K RPM, it would be awe inspiring just to hear it.

[@MotiveVideo]

They do. Look on their facebook page for Spinal Tap

[@gadgetdeez7069]

Wonder how much those numbers change when you start getting into LOADING the valves in an actual engine... You forget, the exhaust valve doesnt just lend itself to just opening on the blowdown cycle. It's physically being held shut by combustion gasses+spring. Theres a reason we use compressed air in a cylinder to hold the valves while we change springs etc.

[@manfromwyoming]

But your valve events shouldn't be happening while the cylinder is under pressure, otherwise you've got horsepower going down your exhaust instead of to the tires.

[@scottgriggs2596]

It seems like the big benefit of this equipment/test technology is what is happening in the valvetrain once the valve is well off of the seat, when there is no significant pressure differential across the valve.

[@deanrobert8674]

As a spec tool at a university lucky students. Opening the doors to mega dollar race teams, and there knowledge base . Nice

[@jjmac3561]

Very interesting to see and hear it operating as well as the explanation. How do you compensate for cylinder pressures affecting the valves in terms of keeping them on the seats?

[@AtlasLathe]

Smokey Yunick pioneered this machine. It sits in Don Garlits museum in Ocala Fl

[@corystansbury]

Obviously this is immensely helpful. I wonder what impacts the cylinder pressure effects have to the validity of the results?

[@nathanhooper8937]

Learned more about valvetrain motion in 20 minutes than a week of studying.

[@16vg60mikey]

Excellent video! A view into next level competition engine development.

[@texasrubicon392]

GM Performance build plant had one when I went. Seriously cool stuff.

[@christicristian06]

What about heat, and exhaust pulse. What about air being pulled in, those things affect valves. I really like this machine, it's a nice step forward.

[@BUZDRIFT]

Crazy shit, seen a older version of this but without the superior measuring & control tools

[@gordowg1wg145]

Very, very informative video - I'm a (D)OHC guy, but many of the principles still apply.

[@rightsidelanechoice7702]

It would be all good for diagnosis of engine problems, but what do you expect to do to keep a valve from floating on anything less than all cylinders? You shim for installed valve height so you what is there to do but go to a stiffer set of springs? I don’t see a benefit because the engine isn’t under a load which changes cylinder pressure which helps seal valves and rings under compression. Factory engines are broke in by spinning but I can’t see a benefit other than for a cam break in procedure. Cool idea with the lasers though.

[@daviddroescher]

Could you hook a bottle of nitrogen and some solenoids to each spark plug hole ,to simulate combustion Peak pressures on the non monitored cylinders in order to take crank deflection into the your equation. You could replace the valve relief in the Piston with a laser, transparent port plug , for monitoring valve interactions as you do now.

[@dgretlein]

That’s great in free air, no load, but how do you account for cylinder pressure when the pistons are in, fuel flowing, spark plugs sparking? Perhaps the reason this test stand is rare because there is little benefit relative to a dyno .... in my opinion.

[@mareksumguy1887]

dgretlein haha... you’re probably right.

[@skiptastic1000]

Roush / yates was using this exact machine to build our FORD cammer motors ......in 2005

[@zepar221]

Even before that ... i heard of the spintron in like 1998 , all the NASCAR engine builders were probably testing their parts on one....

[@Generalusuer]

Im going to watch this video 10 more times this is so kickass

[@MadRS]

It's amazing how far you can go to create the perfect engine package. I love the philosophy of "If you can't measure it, you can't manage it". One thing I've always thought about is the lightening/balancing of engine components. In a push rod configuration I wounder if anyone has gone to the lengths of Titanium or even Carbon push rods??

[@hoost3056]

Carbon fiber pushrods were produced years ago, but never gained traction commercially.

[@Javierm0n0]

that's a badass piece of equipment.

[@aidanppp]

A very interesting concept, but I wonder what effect the lack of a compressed gas in the combustion chamber and flowing through the valve has on the dynamics of the valve motion. This is an incredibly useful tool no doubt, but I wonder how well this data compares to an actual in-use valve train.

[@FredBuildandFix]

Look like the smoketron of Smokey Yulnick.

[@bryanst.martin7134]

Amazing how few know of him. Even created 3 Adiabatic engines. A V twin, an inline 3 and a V4. V4 didn't even have a cooling system, not even fins. Muffler stayed cold. Yin/Yang Pistons and cylinder heads, heated intake, he broke all the rules of modern engine designs, and bent the rules at NASCAR.

[@mccromags]

Smokey was way ahead of his time.

[@flatironracing]

Frédéric Richer it’s the same basic machine, but with the computer software of today

[@turbotempest4095]

Please, bushing vs needle bearing for stock LS rocker trunnion kits......I've been curious for awhile.

[@andrewpaul7441]

You need to test for the valve guide wear and breaking of the ls7 head vs the ls3.

[@juhanahuovinen]

Very good video. I was just left wondering have they tested how much heat affect valve stability?

[@johnterwiel7597]

Really interesting, it's hard to find new information when you have been involved in hot rodding since the seventies. I would go to the magazine rack at the story each month and go through every magazine looking for new things to learn. I would buy several magazines each month, and read them cover to cover. I did the same thing through the eighties and nineties but then it started getting harder and harder to get that "fix" of new information. I watched all the musle car TV shows, and eventually they just started repeating the same stuff too. So now I am in my sixties and it's wonderful to see something new and exciting come along. I want to know everyone of those items you mentioned at the end. How much HP does the oil pump take at 6000 RPM? But I have one that you didn't mention but you need some pistons etc. If an engine is actually an air pump then it makes sense to run that complete engine up with intake manifolds and exhaust on and measure the airflow characteristics with different combinations. You could get a headstart on what the best combinations are by how much air flow, air temp and back pressure at RPM, then you go to the dyno to find just the best spark and fuel mapping. How exciting! Can you please let me know how to follow your testing and data? But one thing I find confusing, is why you would want an ECU to control your electric motor drive? I am retired now but I was an engineering manager and if I were to do the project of building the spintron, I would have used a 75 Hp servo with PLC control which would be able to control the acceleration and decel curves to a incredibly high rate, much, much higher than a standard 75 HP motor. Also the resolution of the crank rotation would be much higher than 360 counts per rev however I don't know what the upper limit is now for a digital high speed input. It might have to be only 360 counts at 10,000 RPM. Anyways very interesting stuff. Thank you for posting. (by the way if you want to see a PLC applied to a car you can check out "John's 1975 Formula 400 Firebird" on facebook. Something you don't see everyday)

[@johnterwiel7597]

By the way before someone comments about using electric motors to turn engines is old hat, I have seen various electric engine stands to break in engines and do testing but I have not seen the data, that they have produced. What I have seen is usually race teams doing it and not sharing the data, They probably are measuring air flow but wouldn't it be nice to see what they learned?

[@Hexenmiester]

Never heard of one, but now I want one

[@overbuiltautomotive1299]

the simplest thing cost the most i thought about building a simulator rig fer years no good at code so that was that but me cool to use one on my 5mge n mod it.your rig is sweet good to see that you all did this bloody nice man to see what lazers and sensors and a computers arduno type stuff or 4 can do wen the used rightly in a engine shop

[@shaundevine007]

so good ....so much info...great vid!

[@nathanrice1796]

Really good explanatory video about the Spintron. Wonder how much one costs?

[@dlyle]

Great technical video hawko.

[@mauriciomartinez3270]

Wouldn't the fact that there is no pressure (compression) in the cylinder make the data inaccurate? I can still see the amazing benefit of using the Spintron. but how do you deal with what I have pointed out?

[@MrPizzaman09]

Cylinder pressure in a turbo application can greatly affect the opening forces on a valve depending on the camshaft lobe timing and shape. NA applications are likely to be affected much less.

[@joshholbert9120]

WOW Liked and subscribed here’s the thing I learned today.Thank you

[@tbatba7598]

Wow that was really interesting...., thanks for sharing this great peace of information

[@davidciesielski8251]

Great!!! now I know of another 100 things that i don't know.... btw I loved it!!

[@Motoinc]

AWSOME MACHINE! Can a Motocycle engine/valve be tested in the machine? Because that would open a big market because its VERY high reving engines and hard on valvetrain

[@022367ASM]

Where can I purchase this Spintron machine system you present in this video?

[@mattteee2973]

I read a forum post from a guy years ago who described one of these, it was running with pistons so had compression and he was amazed that a v8 still sounded like a v8 even without fuel or a spark. Ever since then I've been looking forward to the day EV powertrains have so much spare capacity that they can spin a big block around too to make your journey interesting haha

[@fokjohnpainkiller]

>EV powertrains have so much spare capacity that they can spin a big block around too to make your journey interesting haha Bet you share your women, boomer. That was fucking disgusting

[@Dave5843-d9m]

Scrap the whole valve power train and use a Konisegg Freevalve system. Look at what you don’t need any more - Cams Can drive Rockers/buckets Pushrods Heavy valve springs Throttle body Starter motor Heavy flywheel. You gain 50% power increase 20% reduction in fuel consumption valve periods adjusted on the fly to driver’s power demands and engine speed. Foot off the gas all the valves shut so there’s no parasitic load on the engine. When minimal power is needed power stokes can be missed out.

[@Agroeureka]

Good video more like this would be good Thanks

[@hoost3056]

Ive heard of the Spintron....but then again, Im nerdy like that👍

[@TigerRacingProducts]

I say the 1/2" pushrod was deflecting other components because of the added weight. 😉

[@nickmudd]

I love high revving engines but man they get complicated

[@exploranator]

By merely using higher-torque-rated driveline components, you can enjoy high output without the high revs. They took that approach in WWII fighter planes.

[@scottgriggs2596]

How much power does it take to spin the valvetrain at various engine speeds? That would be interesting to find out. How is that power requirement affected by valve spring rate?

[@jackcurrence263]

This is very cool... are there provisions to be able to test valvetrain motion/behavior with positive (air) pressure on either the intake and/or exhaust ports/valves?

[@3sellers3ful]

This is a 2 year old comment, but yes actually, there's a video out now from one of the Toyota nascar programs where they have pistons and a pos air a hookup that feeds 1 bar of pressure into the manifold

[@jimhmod]

Good video. Very informative but--- Too bad the hourly rate will probably still require me to learn the old fashion way, ie., break parts, modify/change parts , try again. There again, good technology ain't cheep. I splelted cheep wrong on porpoise.

[@ellisjackson3355]

Compare the hourly rate to how much you'll spend breaking parts, modifying, trial and error, etc. I wonder which route would be cheaper

[@erik61801]

a dude on KZbin had one years ago used it to break in valvetrain components on high HP engines

[@Notsodirt]

that sound might scare people. it just puts a smile on my face.

[@fourbypete]

It seems to me that the greatest load on the engine comes from moving push rods and compressing springs to open the valves. I wonder how many HP is being lost by not eliminating springs and precisely controlling the valves directly or by electric solenoid?

[@deanrobert8674]

Check out Free Valve mate, It might give you some info on your question.

[@fourbypete]

@@deanrobert8674 Free valve engines are designed from the ground up and produce nearly double the horse power and efficiency but I wonder why no one has desgined a lag free version for regular engines.

[@zepar221]

Because when NASCAR rules state you must use a push rod V8, you cant just use whatever you want on your engine. The spintron was used to advance push rod valve train design about 20 years ago...

[@oogiemaster]

Heat definitely changes the dynamics of metal parts. Is heat factored in when running the engine with this Spin-Tron?

[@MotiveVideo]

Ben knows what he is doing. NASCAR teams know what they are doing. This is done to test drivetrain stability before it goes on an engine dyno

[@shoominati23]

YES! I was trying to find info on these just last week! SO glad you have done this, I would LOVE for average DIY engine builders to be able to have access to this kind of equipment, even if they rent it by the hour. By the way, didn't Smokey Yunick come up with the idea for these before they came into widespread use? Basically so he could check and adjust the clearances on his race engines so they took the least amount of power to turn the rotating assembly?

[@xeigen2]

Yeah but there's a big difference in the technology to measure the amount of power it takes to turn the rotating assembly and the technology to measure the actual valves in real time.

[@gordowg1wg145]

Yup, he used it for testing all sorts of things that added to parasitic losses, like water pump speeds, oiling modifications, dry sump setups, etc. He was a VERY smart cookie! nowadays it is a very common plactice for the tech's to use specially designed single cylinder engines to make the preliminary tests of new ideas, or even just refinements, before applying them to the full sized engine. I strongly recommend anyone interested in motorsport to buy his books, they're damned good reads!

[@ameirabbden5290]

Might b an added value for those c.head maker or camshaft maker if they can provide this validation sheet for their package..means it test the limits of each part n sort of give a prety good guide what not to mix match..cheap bolts n tough rods mayb

[@marionsanpedro277]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/eJPUoKCEmad6gdU

[@secondstage4272]

Amazing video! Gotta love that data

[@bruizey7319]

If half of an engines noise comes from the valvetrain, why are rotories so damn noisy? On a more serious note, nice to discover valve float and harmonics before a valve shares the same point in space time as a piston.

[@TooManyPatrols]

Bruizey they arnt. Very loud exhaust not engine noise

[@bruizey7319]

@@TooManyPatrols Yeah, was kind of tongue in cheek... I own one. I once asked my exhaust guy how to make it quieter, he said shut it off lol

[@ellisjackson3355]

@@bruizey7319 lmao

[@jasonkliemann2491]

This is cool but im wondering about thermal growth on these parts and your measurements and how much they change

[@rossnoble7956]

Good question. How is heat added to the test?

[@eljefe9913]

Thats gonna be the name of my new techno band SPINTRON"

[@AbbeyRoad69147]

Useful data on pushrod diam at 18:50.

[@tsslaporte]

Only applicable to that specific engine setup. YMMV

[@jasontrevis7142]

Nice work.

[@spinnetti]

Great stuff. Would be cooler to see on an engine from this century!

[@zavatone]

This guy is top notch.