Motorcycle Filtering | Where to stop! Tips For New Riders!

[@spicy110]

Clearly, there is one exception I forgot to talk about, Zebra crossing have zig-zag lines in the middle for about the first cars length. You can not filter to the line when these lines are present, as you must not cross them.

[@neilp1885]

Hmmm, I added a reply to this comment, and KZbin is now showing "1 reply", but I can't see the actual reply. Strange. I'll check back later and add the reply again if it isn't there. Update: still not seeing it 3 hours later, so I guess I'll try adding it again (apologies if this results in a duplicate somehow).

[@neilp1885]

Hi Spicy, interesting video (as always). I think the exception is for passing the lead vehicle at pedestrian crossings (any type), not just Zebra crossings. The only references I know of about zig-zag lines in the highway code are the ones that say you mustn't stop or park there. The rules about not passing the vehicle nearest the crossing refer to pedestrian crossings (rather than zebra crossings, which are a particular type of pedestrian crossing). [Edited to add the next sentence to clarify the significance of the zig-zag lines in relation to passing] The restrictions relating to passing vehicles within the zig-zag line area when approaching a crossing aren't that you mustn't cross the zig-zag lines, they are that you mustn't allow any part of your vehicle to pass the front of the vehicle nearest the crossing. The Highway Code doesn't give a lot of detail about filtering, so I'm presuming it's essentially overtaking, it's just that you are doing it between or alongside slow-moving or stationary vehicles, and you aren't using a separate lane to do so (which would just be called overtaking). So, here's what the HC says about overtaking and pedestrian crossings (reminder for those that might not have looked at it in a while, must/must not indicates a legal requirement, do/do not, should/should not rules are not law but could be used in evidence in any court proceedings to establish liability). Pedestrian Crossings (191 to 199) Rule 191 You MUST NOT park on a crossing or in the area covered by the zig-zag lines. You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing or the vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to pedestrians. Overtaking (162 to 169) Rule 165 You MUST NOT overtake [...] the nearest vehicle to a pedestrian crossing, especially when it has stopped to let pedestrians cross Rule 167 DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example [...] where a vehicle ahead is slowing to stop for a pedestrian that is crossing from a pedestrian island (see Rule 165)

[@sammorgan7606]

It’s not just the front vehicle. You can’t filter at all within the zig zags

[@neilp1885]

@@sammorgan7606 where does it say that?

[@sproutandkidneysoup2296]

@@sammorgan7606 Yes you can. You can't pass the leading vehicle in the zig zags before the crossing, but you can pass the vehicles behind the leading vehicle if they are also in the zig zag zone. It's states in the highway code the only vehicle you must not pass is the nearest vehicle to the crossing.

[@1100andFortyEight]

Thank you for the reminder that filtering to the front can potentially put me in harms way from a red light jumper, I definitely need to be more conscious of the danger, as so many people ride or drive through red lights these days.🚦👍

[@Dave-Lefever]

I totally agree and I've been riding since 1979. I always used to go to the front, but it is now very common for people to jump red lights. Therefore, I tend to hold back and find a space near the front of a queue but not at the front.

[@spicy110]

and 9 time out of 10 there is a gap because for some reasons people are doing that now a lot, taking up more space that makes longer traffic lines.

[@mrtommygunwhite]

The only thing i would add is that roundabout lights are extremely short so someone jumping a red on a roundabout is definitely likely to hit you

[@steve00alt70]

I'm extra cautious if the front que on either side is a Nissan Qashqai or a BMW regardless of the age of driver. Spicy there is a built in timer delay on most if not all UK traffic lights that prevent red runners.

[@andynotdave]

Awesome. Thanks for that. I'm trying to teach road-skills to my Son. He just passed his CBT and I know he can ride but knows nothing about lorries on roundabouts, parked cars etc. This was a great lesson for him. Thank you

[@Super_Sonic86]

Appriciate this video, especially as its in an area i can relate to. Have been down Eastern Road a couple of times since passing and i have to say i havent had the confidence to filter yet. I find it strange how you learn nothing about filtering and what you should / can / cannot do during lessons, so for me its kind of guess work, so this video is very helpful. I'll be that guy that you filter past and think what is he playing at! Slowly building up my confidence of filtering. Done it on a couple of roads around w'looville, the guy dressed as death on the roundabout gave me the thumbs up, so i must have been doing something right lol (you will know who i am referring to if you drive in waterlooville) 🤣

[@SH976]

As a council highway officer and formerly worked as a highway design engineer - I definitely refrain from going on a amber particular living in a busy city where nearly everyone will blast through a set of traffic lights to beat the red or soon after it gone red.

[@adiohead]

In London you get to the front. In the words of Beans on Toast: _"It's where I belong."_

[@spicy110]

No one runs reds in London right? haha

[@loki2wheels]

@@spicy110nope we just sit in cycle advance junctions because the cyclists never use them 😂

[@Runningoutofroad]

I concur mate - What is this country lad talking about? 🧐 As a Veteran London Despatch Rider myself l can confirm our rightful status as Kings Of The Road 💪 For example what's all this nonsense about deferral to car drivers - We only do that sort of thing when we exploit them as A Sacrifice 😎 I mean let's face facts, when you're really on your game you should be rolling your start at the lights and when your filtering feeling the sides of the cars brushing up against your knees 😉

[@TobyCouchman]

A new factor I’ve found when going to the front: if a car either side is electric and fast (e.g tesla), there’s a good chance they can match or even exceed a bike’s acceleration these days

[@lilsgaming]

Took me a year of riding to get to the corage to filter haha. Still to this day I'm not 100% on roundabouts tbf, I play them really safe compared to lights because I have a mad fear about bein sandwidged between sh*t drivers who are unable to keep a line or cutt across instead of just going around if they miss their turn off. Maybe one day It'll all just click

[@Near2Future]

Only time you cannot filter past the first car on traffic lights. Is at pedestrian or zebra cossing. Pretty much any lights that have zig zags on them. Cannot pass cars on those lines, asfar as i'm aware.

[@spicy110]

Yes that is the pinned comment on this video.

[@Near2Future]

@@spicy110 Ah sorry, didn't see it. I personally will just filter to the front. I don't like the idea of being squished between cars. If there is zig zags there. I'll turn my wheel slightly into the lane. In front of that car I wanna join lanes with. Then look directly at the car driver, so they know my intentions with my indicator on. I've not had an issue doing it that way. Filtering i've had no issues with risk wise. Recently, it's been tractors stopped. In the road, taking up the whole lanes around bends. Now, if I was a newer rider where all I wanted to do is go brrr around corners. I'd 100% be seriously hurt / injured. Not by going over the speed limit but by poor signage (no markings to slow or showing threre is a junction around the corner). I was going about 40mph, not going faster then I can see to stop. This was an easy bend aswell. Could do 70-90mph on track, so not a very tight bend. I think corners like these are what kill alot of people. I'm sure not just motorbikes either, tractors need to do a better job. Taking up a whole lane side on. Making a road block, for quite awhile isn't very smart. Most of the tractors i've seen are driven by teens. Have you had any incidents like this?

[@johnflavin1602]

@@Near2Futuretractors too wide for narrow country roads encroaching onto my side of the road forcing me into the drains and potholes. Modern tractors seem to be a lot faster too. They used to cause lots of accidents here in Ireland but the amber flashing lights on most of them these days help make them more visible.

[@SeanieVoiceOver]

You are far safer filtering to the front at a junction like this than you are sitting between the lead vehicles that you cant see through or over, Obviously you have vision into every corner of the junction increasing your awareness of everything going on around you, I hear what you say about getting T-boned by ref light jumpers, many road users are conditioned to race off the line upon seeing a green light without making observations to their left and right for red light jumpers, you're better placed to spot potential jumpers when you can see into every corner of the junction

[@NRD1985]

Excellent explanation for new riders. If KZbin ever fails you, have you considered being a bike instructor?

[@kevinmobile]

An excellent video and a good explanation of a number of scenarios.. One concern I have with pausing between vehicles is the inability of a few drivers to stick to the centre of the (hopefully) marked carriageway compounded by say eager van drivers where sight lines may obscure further the view. I would add that long vehicles add an additional hazard where it's worth hanging back and I suppose recognising that some bikes are wider than others! A junction will always remain an accident black spot requiring a dynamic risk assessment (including acknowledging the possibility of anti-bike drivers) who may add to the risk by their action. Better to be a little late than the late as they say.

[@Mean-bj8wp]

I know the sequence of every light i use every day. I go to the front if possible and i launch it and pull to the left or right looking in the mirror and get up to speed, its easy

[@alivekicking6247]

Great video that I really want to see. CBT booked end of this month with view to DAS, then a cool bike that you recently reviewed 😉

[@Scarletsb0y]

Bike safe also tell you with filtering to do that staying behind 1st car but as you saythere are times when you go to the right to the front. Totally agree with what you say.

[@firepowerg]

Filtering is great! A nice bowl of freshly ground Arabica beans, hot, but not boiling water... Wait... Wrong filtering. ☕☕☕

[@neilp1885]

😂

[@eddmelter1012]

fek that go to the front dont stay in the middle, take control of the lane. even if it means going over the line slightly I try to avoid staying inbetween lanes on a red light. There are some caveats to this that spicy has mentioned already and some stuff youyou will take note of from expirience. but were im from there is no amber and people like to creep forward on reds in anticipation of green especially if they see a motorbike in the middle leaving you squeezed between two cars. alot of it is a "hes not skipping the queue mentality". 90% ill go to the front in the lane or stay back one car for reasons stated. ill rarely stay in the middle on red unless its a wierd junction and I know its safe. Also an awful lot of junctions around me dont pick up motorbikes so if I queued like a car ill be causing traffic.

[@aidencoder]

In a very busy city center (Manchester) I will cross the line and stop directly in front of the car. That's because of traffic density. People are often bumper-to-bumper and i've had so many times where i've not been able to rejoin and nearly got squished between cars navigating the junction. Being right in front and super visible is safer, if illegal. I've not had an issue when police have seen this. Same goes for the bicycle box, i'll use it. The number of red (not amber) jumpers in towns is insane. I want a good view of the junction to ensure traffic is stopped. My preference in busy traffic is to duck in behind the leader. But, best just taking it situation-by-situation. Again, not correct, but in a busy town center, the balance of risk is a bit different. When I am out of town, there's little need to be defensive to the point of rule braking.

[@spicy110]

Have you got red light cameras in the area? I am just wondering what what distance from the line they are triggered.

[@aidencoder]

@@spicy110 I think they trigger well into the junction. At least, i've not had an issue so far.

[@paulbooth1373]

Trail braking in a corner can help to control the bike but never with the front brake! Back brake only, gently, to help stability. If you apply the front brake it can cause the bike to "stand up" or break away.

[@iandaniels8386]

dont know about you but my bike has combi brakes eg use mainly back brake but it still use front break

[@spicy110]

Most bikes do not have linked brakes.

[@spicy110]

No, I definitely mean the front; it is about getting weight on the front, so the front suspension is set up for a better transition on the apex.

[@iandaniels8386]

as regards filtering i dont for 2 reasons were i live is seaside tourists dont know roads do daft things eg turn no signals and its not worth the risk just to get there 5 or 6 mins faster . as regards your blue cross symbol if you dont get it right you need a cross like that at your funeral . i may not get there as fast as you but i get there without been wiped out ?

[@Firemansam1]

I understand the concept here however id tend to filter and stop 2/3 cars from the front. You're not "stealing" their chance to go, especially if they have waited a long time and you're still going to make the next set and can make progress there after. I tend to use a non verbal gestures. I'll point to the car behind the gap i want and 90% of the time, it gets a positive reaction and give them a thumbs up. everyone is clear on your intentions and mitigates confusion and the all bikers are dicks sterio types. A big bug bare of mine is the relative speed. Traffic will travel at 50mph on a national Mway flowing nicely for example. Then a bike will weave in and out of the traffic still doing 70 will all relevant dangers. I think its important to remember that fitering is a form of over / undertaking, and therefore, the basic principles of the road need better understanding. But hey, what would i know 😂 Good video Spicy

[@WasNotWas999]

Once had a funny story about zig zag lines... There was a motorway type police car a few cars back.. Not the usual panda type cars.. So only filtered up to the first car, as I usually would... Pedestrian crossed and the car in front was waiting for me to go first and filter past... I could not so waited for them.. Some minutes later, seemed like ages.. he gave up and went...

[@jendrizzyy]

Great video, thank you

[@Yamaha0011]

Took this videos advice, I'm now in hospital Please filter to the front or don't do it at all

[@spicy110]

Press X, kzbin.info/www/bejne/kKbKZ4WAaZh6q7csi=ebYISQDOLInOuO50&t=64

[@philhunt9297]

I do go to the front, I don't go on amber, I do check for red light runners but I also use a helmet camera. No it won't protect me personally/physically in an accident but when you pull to the front and *that* one car, who hates us filtering, starts creeping forward before the lights even change then a quick tap on the camera and a glance [shoulder check/life saver] in their direction almost always 'nails them to their spot' until the lights turn green. But everyone is different and therefore has/makes different choices. ps Those that keep crawling forward get recorded and get reported - unknown if positive/corrective action taken.

[@haychjay6051]

At what point is someone experienced enough to start filtering? Supposing the new rider is going to be an all year rider, and they ride at least 3-4 days a week, how long before they've been riding enough to attempt filtering? Hopefully I've phrased this in such a way as to not seem dickish. I genuinely just have an aversion to becoming a metal and flesh pancake.

[@spicy110]

What I mean is the point is that you are not thinking about riding the bike. You can just ride it, pull away at a good rate and so on. I can not give a number. Everyone is different. There is different levels of filtering too, taking the odd gap is a far place from putting yourself at the line between cars.

[@stevencurtis-rich4178]

Who the hell teaches to filter up to behind the first car? As for red light, if you are moving off the lights, should always be concious of people not paying attenti9n to their lights.

[@spicy110]

Bike safe and many instructors.

[@stevencurtis-rich4178]

@spicy110 so, filter not up to the head of traffic but to leave you having to merge back In, how stupid. Whole idea is to move yourself out of danger not in to it.....

[@spicy110]

Did you watch the video? I cover all of this in pretty good detail.

[@stevencurtis-rich4178]

@@spicy110 I will admit I gave up when you started explaining about moving off on a green light in case of a red light runner and realised this is maybe not a video for experienced riders, just shocked at this teaching of dangerous filtering that leaves you still stuck in the traffic queue.

[@MattGrover]

Also to note, that were legally not allowed in the cycle boxes some lights have now. (Highway Code 178)

[@neilp1885]

Unless it wasn't possible to stop safely by the first stop line but you could stop before the advanced stop line. Then you can stay in the cycle box until the lights go green and it's safe to proceed.

[@iandaniels8386]

yes i was taught that on cbt

[@SH976]

I think even majority of the police isn’t aware of this rule if they do they’ll be ticketing every taxi drivers in my city.

[@MattGrover]

@@neilp1885 That's not what the highway code says

[@MattGrover]

@@SH976 I agree it's unlikely you'll be picked up on it, I've used it myself, but tehnically, from a teaching standpoint...

[@Mean-bj8wp]

Now along time ago I did say to you that you can go all the way to the front up to the line but you wouldn't have it. But you knew what you knew and pointing you to the rules didn't work as you were right and that was that, turns you didn't know did you.