Motorcycle Shock Preload Adjusters

[@giovannidefrancesco3122]

You are the first thing that comes to my mind when I think about the term ''competent'', cheers from Italy

[@catalystreactionsbw]

I appreciate yur trust in what I do. Thank you!

[@garymanning8920]

We need more top notch explanations from other techies. Wish everybody was as easy to understand as DM. Thanks I'm subscribed and taking notes.

[@TheFelole]

Dave like my fellow Italian countryman I am happy I could find your tutorial for multiple shock absorbers. Clear and visual. Thank you.

[@alexrios4064]

Congratulations 👏 you are a professional who speaks so clear, step by step, no hesitations, or fill in unnecessary words. Cheers 🍻

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thanks for the kind words! Glad you are enjoying the videos we create.

[@ami5975]

Dear Mr Moss, that you for this excellent teachings. I am riding a motorcycle again after 23years.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Welcome back to our beloved sport! Thank you for watching and learning.

[@hkadvrider5485]

Wow, pleasant surprise! I used to see you around Sport Bike Nights in Sacramento. You have adjusted my bikes when I was over there. I am in Hong Kong now and YT'ing bike suspension stuff and you were the first video that came up. Thanks!

[@martin72345]

This brings back memories of resetting my street triple back to stock parts after buying it in a lowered condition. The castle nuts were so stuck I had to take the whole shock off to loosen everything up, thank goodness that I did, as there were a lot of things put on the wrong way and the whole shock was a wrong bump away from catastrophic failure. Anyway, a useful trick is to rotate the spring itself instead of trying to rotate the castle nut. as mentioned, the weight of the bike needs to be off the suspension.

[@garymanning8920]

Mr Moss, Thanks for these great lessons. You at re really a very top rate tech teacher. I'm learning so much from your vids. Im getting so much faster too. Have more confidence and feel on my CBR.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thank you for studying and becoming much more knowledgeable!

[@thomasmarchese2808]

I think it’s important to note that preload doesn’t actually change the stiffness of the spring, per say. It does “make it stiffer” to add preload, ie compensating for additional weight or softer, less preload but that does not effect the spring rate of the shock or forks. It doesn’t effect the stiffness or softness. That’s a spring rate and valving thing. Preload simply is meant to keep the chassis geometry correct and the right amount of “pressure” on the wheels. For example if the preload is too light on a bump you might lose contact with the road. Too much preload and your tire might “push through” a bump in a corner. So it does change “stiffness” but. It really in the way you think. It’s different. The bikes weight. Your weight. Passenger. Luggage. ect. All push down. Preload is simply how much the shock is pushing back.

[@christofferthim7474]

So if i were to compress the spring, would that help me from the rebound to feel slow? and also not sag so much? but too much compression would lead to the risk of having a "pogo bounce" and let my tire to lose traction?

[@eivindvh87]

Preload isnt the spring pushing back, but rather how compressed the spring is before you add the weight of a rider, passenger and or luggage. You want the spring, when you are riding, to be able to both extend into pot holes and compress over bumps.

[@joes.1836]

Best video on preload adjustments, thank you for the great detail!

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Glad it was helpful!

[@carmscaffidi]

Thank you Dave! This was extremely helpful for me!

[@stretchbatchelor]

Thank you for your time and wonderful multiple explanations of types of shocks ;)

[@catalystreactionsbw]

I appreciate you taking the time to post and thanks for the positive comment.

[@cocomil0488]

By far the most and best information available out there. Thank you!

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Glad it was helpful!

[@bryankeise9005]

this video for me was a huge help Dave expertly done simple teaching demonstrating thank you. was totally confused as to what I was doing beforehand top marks

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thanks Bryan - hopefully you have some great results and improved handling as a result of your willingness to learn more and then apply it :)

[@AM-uk7jv]

I’ve been using a brass punch and plastic hammer to adjust preload on my bike. Even though the lock rings look accessible by spanner, even the smaller spanner I have doesn’t fit.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Yes, there are some bikes that let you see if but you have to use tools like a drift and hammer.

[@colgracie6248]

Informative and straightforward information. Just how it should be. Thanks

[@Unterwegs8000]

You are absolutely brilliant 👌 Best knowledge when it comes to motorcycle . Cheers form Switzerland

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thank you! I appreciate you taking the time to post your comment. Enjoy the channel!

[@inthesPhila]

Inspired by you and your rear preload/sag videos. Thanks. Did a calculation for my '13 R1200GS LC. Sag is 22 mm more on its "One Helmet" setting compared to the "Two Helmet" setting. Well, 22 mm over a 1507 mm wheelbase changes the head tube angle 0.83 degrees, from 64 deg. to 64.8. The angle is the inverse tangent of the change in sag over the wheelbase = tan-1 (22/1507). Not a tiny amount.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thank you for taking the time to acquire the mathematical difference and the net effect on rake/steering. Which sag setting did you find worked best?

[@inthesPhila]

@@catalystreactionsbw R1200GS or 1250 or GSA w ESA seems to really have 46mm of rear sag change from two helmet setting to one, an empty bike with 170#. 200mm total, two helmet setting can leave only 15mm rider sag but the head tube steepens up 1.75 deg (tangent of 1.75deg = 46/1507 wheelbase) and likes to turn. The OEM shock has 3 electronic settings, now call max fixed (for offroad), or auto or min. fixed (to dismount easier). You are fine man. Thanks. I'm 220# and use helmet plus luggage setting, sag around 62.

[@mr59301]

First-rate. This guy knows how to transmit.

[@aaahillshandyman..bellavis864]

As always Dave, great tutorial. Thank you.

[@Juxtaposed1Nmotion]

Great video! Thanks for going over all the different types!

[@bonessmith7924]

7

[@roadyaari]

Excellent video, i have one doubt, after softening, will bike be more comfortable for short riders?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Yes, provided via weight that fork and shock travel are optimal.

[@christianbh]

Do you go up or down in preload for more weight?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

The heavier you are, the more preload you use IF you get close to maximum travel, so ability is a big factor too.

[@tusharpardeshi1268]

Your expertise is just awesome and the way you add up small details are really neat thing for understanding. I do have a question though, how to figure out a correct preload settings for a solo rider avg guy (70kg)

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thank you! Set sag in the 30-40mm range. Set compression at 50% of the total range. Ride and see how much fork and shock travel you use and adjust accordingly. Ideal fork travel is 20-25mm above marked bottom out and shock is 2-4mm above the bottom out bumper.

[@tusharpardeshi1268]

@@catalystreactionsbw will try this .. thanks a tons for responding 👍🏼

[@robertpinder2307]

Can I change only one side shock spring to get softer suspension while leaving the other unchanged. I know some forks have one side spring, other damping???

[@catalystreactionsbw]

If you have two fork springs you can change one to a softer rate. if they are linear springs and for example you had 1.0 rate in the right leg, you would drop down to a .95 in the left leg. You would never drop from 1.0 to .90

[@McBasharit]

Awesome explanation. Thanks for sharing.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

thanks for vsiiting the channel and taking the time to post. I hope you learn a great deal from the content here.

[@hunterwesk]

Does my rear wheel need to be off the ground for me to adjust the preload? And does the bike need to be upright/straight?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Bike on the side stand is sufficient as it will stretch the shock out so push against the kick stand to see if the shock will extend at all.

[@hunterwesk]

@@catalystreactionsbw Thank you for the amazingly fast reply!

[@Witness27]

The amount of times I've smashed my knuckles or hand changing shock preload! Hate that job, but you make it look a doddle!

[@catalystreactionsbw]

I learned just as you did, and sometimes reached for the first aid kit :)

[@jamesbrininger6287]

Have a first gen SV I was given a light use GSXR750 shock, which is a half inch shorter. Question is: should I use it? I could lower the front by the same amount.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

If the rear shock is shorter, the front MUST be lowered to compensate.

[@Lostoldman]

Hi I have Royal Enfield Super Meteor 650. Fitted rear Hagon shocks, the preload is set to my preference and feels very nice. But does it matter that the bump stop rubber after I have slid it back down it then hits the top after a ride? Adjustments preload are rather big steps and next step up seems rather too stiff for me but prevents bump stop rubber hitting the top. “”””Just need to know if it’s ok bump stop rubber hitting the top???”””

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Yes, okay for the bunmp stop to kiss the shock base.

[@chrisusmcvet3435]

So adding preload, shortens the spring which increases the stiffness of the shock.... which also reduces sag.

[@tomnorton1152]

Hi Dave, do you have a video showing how to remove the top yoke or bridge from CB 500 Honda F. As I need to replace mine as it was stolen and I retrieved it but now need to replace the top bridge. Many thanks Tom

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Hi Tom. You will need to acquire a nut and washer to secure the upper yoke to the steering stem between the bar riders and the bolts each side to secure it to the fork. Tighten the center nut first, then tighten the side bolts last.

[@thedonkey60]

How does it shorten the spring and compress it more as you add preload? The weight on the spring remains the same so it just raises the seat height of the bike surely? Or am I missing something here? I could actually see the swingarm moving down as you added preload.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

A shock spring can be progessive in ID between top and bottom (one wider than the other), progressive in shape (narrow at both ends and wider in the middle), then it can be progressive between each coil based on close to big gaps between each coil). Compressing with more preload the spring will in essence make the spring more resistant to travel. That will in turn force the shock apart and raise ride height (same with the forks).

[@thedonkey60]

@@catalystreactionsbw it will force the shock apart but the spring length will remain the same so it cannot be stiffer. When the shock cannot be forced apart any further and the spring preload actually compresses and shortens the length of the spring, then it will make the suspension stiffer and more resistant to movement. A progressive spring is still a spring with the weight of the bike on it. So surely adding preload, but not shortening the length of the spring will never make it stiffer. The fact that, as you say, adding preload will force the shock apart and raise the ride height of the bike leaving the spring at the same length, would also say the the spring cannot therefore be any stiffer. Preload can only really be for ride height adjustment for the adjustment of static and dynamic sag?

[@HoltFarley]

@@thedonkey60 Finally, someone appears to know how springs work. If there is any sag in the suspension (which will be true for any sanely setup motorcycle), then changing preload does nothing but change the sag. The force in the spring balances the sprung weight (which does not change), so preload does not change the force in the spring. And preload sure does not change spring stiffness, which is defined by the spring geometry (coil diameter, active wire lenght, etc.). It surely does not matter if we're using a linear or progressive spring. Of course, changing sag has some important effects; changing bike geometry, increasing/decreasing stroke to bottoming (so increasing/decreasing total force to bottom), etc.

[@abdullatiffadam589]

Excellent explanation boss 👍👍👍👍👍👌👌👌👌

[@ArtietheArchon]

you can also put a white dot with a marker or maybe fingernail polish for the adjusters without discrete steps

[@nhan24471]

Hi, will this chang the high of the bike?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

When you set sag, you can raise or lower the seat height.

[@trevorschober8769]

Excellent Dave! You can work on my bike any day!

[@geoffwhiles8223]

Absolutely brilliant. Thank you.

[@matteusmaximus]

when you move the nut the entire top half of the spring is rotating with it, which must put some weird stress on the spring, no?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

When the spring turns in conjunction with the adjusting ring it does so as a complete spring. The only stress is the friction between the spring and adjusting ring plus the holder at the base of the shock spring to lock it in place.

[@SBarbati]

I wish I had seen your videos before. I used to own a Street Triple with Nitron rear adjustment and I could never get my head around on how to use that damn thing lol.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

No matter what you own from this point on, now you can set up any bike ergo, suspension and geometry via the videos to make your bike truly YOURS! :)

[@riverajose9171]

Good afternoon, please can you tell me if the rear shock absorbers of the 2001 vulcan 750 can be repaired and where can I buy the parts. I am writing to you from Puerto Rico. excellent youtube channel. Thank you

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thank you for watching in Puerto Rico! Unfortunately they are not. YSS or similar company makes shocks that can be serviced.

[@johnnygross4415]

I have a lowering kit ion my 650 versys, this will effect total performance some, how much I wonder?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

If you have not corrected the fork position to match the rear lowering amount, you will struggle on entry as the bike will be hard to turn and exit where the bike will tend to run wide.

[@gavinaucote7059]

Hi Dave, first off your videos have got my blade to almost perfection. Thanks. Question I have is, is there a quick fix for adjustment when I take my daughter out on the back(6 maybe 7 stone increase), could I up preload or rebound, then just back it off when she's off? Any suggestions thankfully recieved. Cheers

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Up the preload, add 6psi to each tire and add a little more compression (.25 to .5 of a turn).

[@Taniwhais]

Hello from Australia. I love your videos as you explain things so clearly and i learn so much from you. My bike only has the Step kind of pre load adjust on rear suspension and no adjustment on front (Suzuzki SV650 - 2018 model). It is still on the stock setting of 3. I’ve noticed when i go over large bumps that it throws me off my seat so is my suspension too soft for me (I am 81kg with out adding the weight of gear). I would also like to know what can i do to the front suspension to make it better handling? Should i get better springs and oil or just get whole new suspension? I don’t use it for racing so i just want to get it set up for a better ride on street and local mountains. I just want to now what I’ll need to do to it before i take it to a local Suspension place so i don’t get told any rubbish just to get me to spend more money than i need too. Thanks

[@dreamdiction]

If it throws you off your seat, the setting is too hard.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@dreamdiction or rebound is too fast.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Have you measured sag to determine if the suspension is too soft or too hard? I prefer to know: davemosstuning.com/?s=setting+sag. You also need to check static sag to see what you have as zero will through you out of the seat as well: davemosstuning.com/?s=static+sag. Got through these processes to assess where you are with sag then you can understand why you are leaving the seat.

[@peterford9369]

So, when people say Triumph rear springs are too stiff, from the factory. Does this mean the steel they use on the coil is too hard to have give,,,or is it the oil in the piston too small to allow travel of the piston shaft? Do you think air shocks are any good, or is oil better for stiffness or dampening?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

1. The shock shaft inside the spring shows less than 50% travel used at all times with stock settings. 2. On a more technical level, there is no static sag at all so the rider is bumped out of the seat frequently on moderate roads. Changing stock settings to get 12-15mm static sag and assessing shock travel can eliminate much of that. 3. Damping for compression and rebound is set incorrectly amplifying bumps.

[@craigedo]

Great video mate, very informative!

[@sonichives1]

Hi Mr Moss, love you videos. I currently have a Yamaha FJ 09 so By any chance do you have any videos adjusting the suspension on a FJ if not an FZ 09, it’s closest relative. Thank you very much sir!

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thanks for the kind words! kzbin.info/www/bejne/ooGZlKGfoLp5sMk

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Also this one davemosstuning.com/2-clicks-out-2018-mt-09-fz-09-street-suspension-setup/

[@no22sill]

I have trouble understanding whether a softer setting leads to a higher or a lower seat height

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Softer settings lets the suspension move more. If that is the case, the suspension compresses more and swat height might be less. This also depends on the material in the seat foam.

[@bananabrooks3836]

The preload tool should be used to PULL the adjusters round the thread rather than pushing them round. Which is an easy way to damage your knuckles when the tool slips.

[@ducaduke]

I have a 2005 yzf r6 no matter what setting I try to set it at. I can never get the back to lift there’s no preload in it i put the ramp adjuster in the middle bottom and top I can’t firgure it out

[@catalystreactionsbw]

That is why we have Remote Tuning to help you 1-1 via email or video. Please send me an email to [e-mail]

[@keithogden1770]

Spanner rash, the bane of all mechanics :)

[@minnie19booboo]

Nice adjustable C spanner wrench Dave! Where can I get one? I bought a C spanner wrench but it's too wide and non adjustable. Cheap aluminium one from EBay. Anyway I have owned a 2000 zx6r and sold it, now I own a 2006 gsxr 750. I lowered it by sliding the fork tubes up and a 3 position aluminium rear dog bone. Never really adjusted the damping until a week ago watching your gsxr sag video. I'm about 240 and have never raced only to work and back. My question is if I just change oil and antifreeze, how long will a stock bike last? This gsxr has 20,000 miles on it and has never seen red line.And what maintenance should I do myself or pay to have done? I might try a clutch and chain but not valve adjustments. Thanks for any help!!

[@catalystreactionsbw]

www.scooter-center.com/en/hook-spanner-buzzetti-for-oe-25-70mm-7675870

[@catalystreactionsbw]

You can do standard maintenance of air filter, spark plugs, oil and filter, coolant. A professional should do regular throttle body sync's with correct valve adjustment inspections/changes, Total life expectancy would be 70-80,000 miles.

[@minnie19booboo]

Thanks for advice Dave! I hope you are staying safe from this dumb virus!? I am lucky to still be working through this rough time. Anyway, I haven't had many good weather days because I live in Xenia,Ohio. Do you know Brock from Brocks racing? He lives around Beavercreek,Ohio.If you're ever in town you gotta see some straight line drag racing at Kil-Kare race way in Xenia,Ohio.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@minnie19booboo I would absolutely be up to watch some drag racing :)

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@minnie19booboo Thanks and let's see what the future holds for us all in the next 2-3 months.

[@brunonovo7025]

Does it chances the bikes height mate?

[@geraldnyanaprakasan8982]

Dave can help me . On my honda rs 150 how im to set my monoshock preload im 72.4 kg

[@catalystreactionsbw]

In reading about the bike online there is no text that shows the rear shock is adjustable. That being said, consult the owners manual to see if there is the option to change it. If there is it will most likely be a ramp adjuster like a Honda CBR600

[@geraldnyanaprakasan8982]

@@catalystreactionsbw im imean my only mono shock honda 150🙏🏍⛑

[@gilbertoisabel77]

Mr Moss firts of all tank you very much for you wisdom and great comunication about tecnical stufs so important. I have a VFR Crosstourer DCT. I love this wonderfull machine but the suspension is very dificult. Could you help whith your big experience. Sorry about my bad english. Thanks for all. Gilberto

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Hi Gilberto. How much do you weigh with normal clothes, how many kms on the odometer, what have you changed for weight savings on the bike, what tire brand, model and sizes are you using, are you solo or with a passenger?

[@gilbertoisabel77]

@@catalystreactionsbw im sorry but only now i coud find your answer, Im not a "you tube tec", thank you very much for your answer for me. Well,

[@gilbertoisabel77]

My weigh with normal clothes is 95 kg, the bike as 43000 km. Im not changes any thing in the suspension, all the regulation in front and rear is from de the service manual, the tires in front is 110/70/19 rear is 150/70/17, daily a ride solo with a top case (givi +/- 5 kg). This wonderfull bike is a Honda VFR 1200 XA Dual clush transmisson 2012. I hope you understand my english. Thanks for your help Gilberto

[@gilbertoisabel77]

I forgot: the tyres is a Michelin PR4 Trail (front and rear) in perfect condition. Thanks again

[@backyardlifts9095]

My bike is currently too tall for me. I wondering if it would be a good idea to shorten the shock in order to lower the height of my bike. I have a 2011 speed triple. Thanks.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Lowering is a good idea for any bike if that allows you to stay safer when riding. The downside is less ground clearance and harder to pick up off the side/kick stand. Using adjustable (not pre-drilled) lowering links for the rear shock and then resetting fork position is the cheapest way to go. If you want to take travel away from the shock internally with a spacer, that can be done.

[@backyardlifts9095]

@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks Dave!

[@hhenriques1206]

excellent explanation!

[@dddon513]

I think you meant to use "infinite" to describe adjustability in lockring vs ramp, no?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

That would be correct in literal terms.

[@Striple]

Hi Dave, I was wondering. If I want to change my preload setup, and I want to measure the dynamic sag, do I have to worry about the compression settings? Because how I see it, if the rider sits on the bike, the compression rebound will be active. Or I'm I wrong?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

If possible, always measure with hot oil. You can use existing settings in place for hydraulics or you can remove all compression damping (leave rebound as is). Do comparative measuring to see with your bike, your shock set up and oil age if there is any profound difference between settings.

[@Striple]

@@catalystreactionsbw Thank you, it makes sense if I think of it .

[@cwg6324]

What do you do to the shock lock rings if they dont move / stuck

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Soak then with WD40 or other penetrant for several days then try again. If they do not move, remove the shock, remove the spring and then try to move the rings.

[@cwg6324]

@@catalystreactionsbw thanks dave will give that a go

[@Southernboy302]

I need to do this on my 14 Hayabusa. I'm a bigger guy and ride corners...or do the best I can (lol)...but holy crap it's a pain to get to the shock. Wish I could find someone in my area that was like this dude.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

try a dirt bike shop if you have one close - they adjust preload all the time or find a local riding group. There will be someone in it that is handy with the shock preload tool. Once preload is set, don't forget about rebound and compression!

[@Southernboy302]

@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks for the advice. I will definitely look into that.

[@StreetBikeTakeoverYT]

Whats a good way to measure the rear spring length in such a confined space like that?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Tape measure through the swing arm while someone pushes against the side stand the elevate the bike.

[@jeffgatlabayan4772]

Hi Dave! I need your help. I have a Ducati Multistrada 950 with REAR manual adjusters for pre-load, compression & re-bound. I ride luggage & I already max out my rear pre-load to its hardest setting but it still has a rider sag of 55 mm. What can I do to adjust it to bring it to 35 mm?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

In this case at max preload with compression at .5 from max, check the shock shaft for travel used. If you bottom out a new spring is needed.

[@jeffgatlabayan4772]

@@catalystreactionsbw thanks Dave👍

[@XscudX]

Will a higher preload lower the bike?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

If you are talking numbers or ramp adjuster, higher = more. That means forks and shocks get longer so the bike rises in seat height.

[@XscudX]

@@catalystreactionsbw so if I put mine to position 1 the seat hight will be lower? Great :)

[@lovepcgaming2335]

Hi Dave Moss Tuning. If your still keeping an eye on this vids comments I have a question. Just picked up an 06 zx6r pretty sure it's stock suspension. I wiegh 250 pounds and ride to work with a heavy bag and gear so with that ride figure 300 to 320 pounds. If I ever ride with my wife we are close to 410 pounds with gear on and the rear is almost bottomed out. Any suggestions on what I can do with suspension replacement parts to handle the weight?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Change to 1.1kg/mm fork springs and a 13kg shock spring. That would be the minimum. Fresh fork and shock oil will help a lot.

[@lovepcgaming2335]

@@catalystreactionsbw thank you very much. I'll snag those up. Last time I ride was a decade ago on a 90 gsxr 1100 and I was 175 pounds so suspension replacement was not a worry lol. If that's the minimum size do you have a recommended size?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@lovepcgaming2335 Those are the recommended springs for you solo with bags and with adjustment range for your wife.

[@lovepcgaming2335]

@@catalystreactionsbw thank you again very much.

[@marcosgarcia11084]

Man!! The ultimate motorcycle man cave.

[@stevep7837]

Hi Dave, where can I get a buy a wrench like that? Thanks

[@catalystreactionsbw]

www.amazon.com/Buzzetti-Adjustable-Shock-Pre-Load-Wrench/dp/B00BR1ZVJG

[@AndrewBoundy]

Great explanation! Thanks.

[@danejurus69]

So when I move my preload adjuster from 2 to 3, am I making the shock stiffer or softer?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

stiffer

[@tucobenedico]

Does it also change the height of the seat?

[@emilpartanen8719]

Same stiffness. You only adjust ride height when you adjust so called "preload".

[@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff]

@@emilpartanen8719 - hooray, my thoughts entirely.

[@joshliban1594]

What’s that tool callled

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Steering stem spanner or adjustable C spanner. You can buy it at my amazon store: www.amazon.com/shop/davemosstuning?isVisitor=true

[@tahir9]

A complete lesson on preload adjustment in 15 minutes!

[@matthewhensley5165]

What is the tool he is using called

[@catalystreactionsbw]

www.maxiscoot.com/en/product/buzzetti-c-spanner-43660

[@matthewhensley5165]

@@catalystreactionsbw thank you I did end up finding one similar tho

[@DylanGSXR]

Please tell me where you got your C Spanner , i really want one .... cheers . fantastic videos mate 👍.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Buzzetti is the name. Google it and shop locally to get the best deal. Plenty of places sell it.

[@DylanGSXR]

@@catalystreactionsbw thanks very much 👍 .....

[@fornicateu2]

@@DylanGSXR Mine came from an old peddle cycle, does the job.

[@jamespriyam9362]

Thanks and thanks 💕

[@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff]

Surely adding or subtracting preload is changing your ride height, not making the spring longer or shorter (or stiffer /softer).It would only make the spring shorter as you increased preload if your swing-arm didn't move?

[@ct9683]

You just answered your own question, it does make spring harder and softer because it compresses, it also can increase ride height or add more resistance in height

[@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff]

@@ct9683 - but you are not compressing it, the swingarm is moving?

[@chrisredfield3240]

If the pre load is increased as the load increases the ride height stays the same. The bike is always at full height minus static sag and minus rider sag. If you don't have these you effectively have no suspension and a rock hard ride. If you go full pre load you may as well have a block of wood instead of a spring

[@richardpichan6916]

I'm calling them battlement nuts at work at the shop from now on....🤣

[@adex967]

Thank you for all this great videos. How do you know if your preload is too soft or otherwise?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Check travel used on the forks and shock. If you are very close to bottom, you know what to do :)

[@vonKragh]

Grease the adjuster ring will definitely help you also! You do not mention that at any time, just a good advice :-)

[@Mattschindig]

7:40

[@vonKragh]

@@Mattschindig Thanks, missed that one ;-)

[@Mattschindig]

@@vonKragh No worries. I do it myself.

[@black_yeti]

Is there like a formula for the spring stiffness (not the preload)of is it just a trial and error thing?

[@marcodimaio3087]

assassin stunter your weight, your spring usually oem you’re gonna find a spring that suits an average weight. On my s1000rr on the manual they say around 90kg (geared) is an average(for them) so the spring they’re not good if you’re 75kg even if you change all the settings.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

There is no formula for the spring, but there is this rule of thumb: static sag should be 10-15mm with a cold shock, rider sag should be 20-25mm. Combined 30-40mm front and rear to start with a flat bike. If rider sag is good but there is no static sag, the spring is too soft. If static sag is bigger than rider sag, the spring is too hard.

[@danejurus69]

@@catalystreactionsbw What is static sag?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@danejurus69 Dave Williams, editor, replying here. It's the amount the shock and forks compress under the bikes own weight, without the rider on it yet. In other words, how much the bike "sags" under its own weight. Here are some video links about it. davemosstuning.com/2-clicks-out-shock-static-sag/ davemosstuning.com/fasterclass-setting-fork-static-sag/ davemosstuning.com/fasterclass-shock-static-sag/

[@TWIRKNOLOVE]

"lengthen the spring to reduce tension.." You're actually reducing compression. :^) Tension is the force of pulling both ends outward (there is none here, the spring is always under compression). Compression is pushing the ends inward. A lot of people accidentally say this - just like when people say 'dampening' when talking about shocks haha.

[@okboomer1241]

idcspring.com/spring-lose-tension-when-compressed/ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressive_strength In the first link, a spring company describes the compression strain as "tension". In the second link, along with everything else google finds regarding spring nomenclature, the extension strain on an extension spring is called "tension" while the compression strain on a compression spring has no name (I could give you the historical linguistics as to why, but I'm being too pedantic already). Hence the common substitution of "tension spring" for "extension spring" throughout engineering literature. However, IDC Spring company seems to be ahead of the lexical power curve and does refer to the compression strain as tension. They appear to use the term "tension" to label/name the strain on a spring regardless whether that strain is extensive/positive or compressive/negative. That said, Dave Moss might satisfy more engineers if he said, "I'm going to strain the spring" or "I'm going to add some strain to the spring / I'm going to remove some strain from the spring". Using the word "compression" for the spring in a motorcycle suspension context becomes problematic because the hydraulics have a "compression" component to them for which there is no suitable nomenclative substitute. But what do I know? I'm just an annoying linguist (who just coined the term "nomenclative").

[@TWIRKNOLOVE]

@@okboomer1241 I appreciate your research and reply. As an engineer, I actually use those machines linked in the Wiki for product testing in RD! In the engineering world, strain is a measurement of elongation. It’s in the equation itself too - which is a result of tensile force or tension. Stress/strain graphs are an example. I didn’t know companies use the incorrect term and I wonder why. Maybe you’re right - not to confuse it with the damper’s compression adjuster. Or just sloppy nomenclature.

[@TWIRKNOLOVE]

@@okboomer1241 I just noticed the first link and read the opening paragraph. They used compression and tension interchangeably haha. That’s really wrong haha.

[@okboomer1241]

@@TWIRKNOLOVE The era of "appeals to authority" is over. The spring company is an authority, you're an authority, Moss is an authority. This is getting as bad as epidemiology and climate "science." What's next? Gravity won't be a force anymore?

[@888jannn]

Nice job...👏👏👏👏

[@obadiahscave]

You're the master.. brother..

[@trikkinikki970]

Why not call it a rook nut, since it looks like the chess piece? Plus it's one syllable. Thanks for the vids, between your expertise and forum browsing I managed to set up the suspension on my k7 sv650s and oh my god thet difference is amazing. I don't get people who don't set up their motorcycles, and I don't get people who just whine about how their shit is doing instead of actually figuring out how the motorcycle and its components actually work. Do you need an apprentice? lol, I'd love to learn. Hoping to start racing, but I still have yet to hit track days.

[@ayrtonclark2023]

Because a rook is supposed to resemble a castles battlements, hence the name here I guess.

[@mimicislivettv]

I follow all your videos, your content is A1! Do you ever make it to the Circuit of Americas, in Austin, TX. I would love to have you look at my bike on track day!

[@catalystreactionsbw]

I have been to a Ride Smart track event before but I have never been to COTA. If Ride Smart would allow me to travel to help riders (ie: they do not have a suspension technition helping riders at the event), I would travel to COTA .

[@metakmoto]

So much experience here.

[@ArcanePath360]

What is the point of hydraulic preload over standard? I've noticed that you can buy the same shock with this extra option for a few hundred more. Is it some rich person's lazy way of adding preload or is there more to it?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Ease of use without damaging the rings over time. So $$ saved in the long term.

[@ArcanePath360]

@@catalystreactionsbw I see. Thanks for explaining.

[@notamotorbikemechanic]

Reading the owners manual for my Triumph Speed Triple R, it has this 'Warning' " The rear suspension unit spring pre-load is not rider adjustable. Any attempt to adjust the spring pre-load could result in a dangerous riding condition leading to loss of control and an accident" Why would they put that on an Ohlins suspension, that is obviously adjustable.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

We all want to know why and no one will answer. Perhaps you might be the lucky one to get an answer!

[@notamotorbikemechanic]

I did as the dearership, they were confused by it to.

[@jameshartmann5258]

@@catalystreactionsbw a non-biker attorney drafted that disclaimer...that's why!

[@nealrousseau]

Why isn't it called spring tuning? Nothing else is getting tuned but the shocks.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Dave Williams, editor, replying here. This video just concentrates on one aspect of motorcycle suspension, the various types of shock preload adjusters. We don't talk about forks or hydraulics in this video.

[@tonypate9174]

Wonder if Dave ever had a CD175 with a big top box for Spam butties and a thermos flask with a nasty cheap plastic "dayglo" orange that faded to hearing aid beige in weeks , as a winter hack to get to work at the main dealers bike shop in the winter time ? Don't think he's a handlebar mitts type . looks the age and every bike shop had a Dave who would do a service on your pride and joy at his place ....on the side for cash ..not sure why give all that up for the good old U S of A ...by now be head of parts and have a brown coat (warehouse) for use of.

[@tonypate9174]

Me bad fat fingers small keys old age "dayglo" headlight cover ...we all had one...only one..never buy a 2nd one.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

I couldn't afford a CD175 at the time so I bought a C90 instead. No mitts, wax paper inside a Belstaff jacket with a Bieffe helmet. No thermos!

[@tonypate9174]

@@catalystreactionsbw The old school Belstaff happy days in the kitchen melting tins of "wax" for the annual reproofing ..after a few hard years a good Belstaff can "stand" all by itself like a suit of armour and knocked backed from many a boozer..not like the modern over priced tat sell to hip dudes today ! If know any retro hip "ton" up uber kool with a "K" biker types show them You Tube RODE SAFELY 1955 FILM BY VICTOR HORSEMAN PART 1....a time when tyres with a "Y" was round and black Dunlop or Avon and Nobby Clark(e)'s still be found .. a good watch with a kipper breakfast.

[@Ryan-re1rs]

I thought a spring is just as stiff no matter its length?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Depends on the shape and the gaps between winds

[@duke7888]

Thank you!

[@stevewaclo167]

Well Dave, I’m only a few minutes in and waiting for “Why?” and “How much is enough?”.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Static and rider sag is the why, How much is enough is based on rider weight and skill.

[@drtomasdds]

How does one determine which preload setting to use when taking on a passenger?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Measure sag for yourself and set sag to your needs. Measure sag again (3rd party required) and set sag for the rear first. Once correct, then measure fork sag and set preload. Observe fork and shock travel used on a test ride or in the fist 80kms/50 miles to see where you are.

[@adamf.8564]

Too bad in some motorcycle shops in the US the sales men are just plain incompetent or unknowledgeable and not caring at all about riders safety and comfort.

[@michaelpearshouse1100]

But you haven't answered the question we all need to know: Why would we adjust pre-load? What are we trying to achieve? On a road bike how much 'movement' are we looking for a safe but comfortable ride? It's a bit pathetic if you don't know how to use a 'C' spanner.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

There are many other videos on why to adjust preload, how it is adjusted and what the end results are. Those are under the 2 Clicks Out playlist. This example show what tools you need and how to move them. 80% of suspension travel is comfortable and safe based on assessment of fork and shock travel. Now you know that, you can adjust preload to your precise needs.

[@wheeliepictures6197]

Your experience shows ! but those C spanners butcher the shocks, the damage and marks the spanners make is visually disgusting ..

[@catalystreactionsbw]

That's all we have in our industry for tools. Can you design and produce something better to help everyone that needs to use a tool like this? If not, that's a lot of disgust to carry around every day until the situation is resolved.

[@Ozfreerider_adventures]

Why did you say you are adjusting the length of the spring with pre load ? You aren’t ! You are extending the shock within the spring to gain ride height ! You aren’t making it stiffer by adding ore load ride will be softer , you make bike rider higher in stroke and therefore in the SOFTER part of the stroke . The further down you adjust ride height you are in the stiffer part of linkage and shock valving .

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Experts understand the high level theory through study. I seek to motivate riders to go and learn more.

[@vladi19881909]

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@mojomoto259]

Granular, not finite

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Dave Williams, editor, replying here. Nice catch! Language is a funny thing. One of my favorites is "incentivize" to make the noun "incentive" into a verb. But "ive" is a suffix used to turn verbs into nouns. To turn the noun "incentive" into a verb you drop the suffix. The verb is "incent". But language has changed so much in the last 60 years that auto spell check does not even recognize the word "incent".

[@evil_twit]

So steps are are bad, but I shall move the nut "a rotation at a time"... :)

[@dancarlos1216]

Ben Zo you have to get it close, then later go back and make finer adjustments that the thread allows for. Guys with that much knowledge just can’t get it all out, it’s hard to translate a lifetime of learning to a few words.

[@nachtreiter_]

Video is -25% speed 😂