Motorcycle Tire Tech Part 2 - The Darkside - Live Dunlop Q&A

Exclusive on our KZbin channel, we will have a special guest live in the shop to answer all your questions about motorcycle tires. With decades of expertise, our guest Phil Waters is the National Retail Products Manager for Dunlop Tires and will certainly bring lots of information to the table. Subscribe to our channel to take part. And yes, we will even talk about going to the Darkside!

[@dumuntai]

I have been doing a lot of research and have yet to find someone who stated they had a catastrophic failure darksiding. I ask the question as to why motorcycle tire manufacturers don't build a tire that can deter darksiders from darksiding? If tire manufactuers would build something that didn't require a swap out every 5 to 10k miles I think this practice would be less prevalent. No, I am not a darksider but I am considering it as I think mtorcycle riders get shafted with not only the price of tires(far more expensive than C/Ts), longevity, and mounting. Just my opinion.

[@FBIMitch]

I fully agree, the tire technology exists, we can all see car tires lasting a lot more. Not all rider goes to the track, the planet needs a touring tire that lives up to the challenge. Stop the waist.

[@dougaulette]

I use car tires on my Harley Davidson electra glide classic 1997 for the past 20 years, I've ridden over 200.000 thousand miles, never had any issues. What the tires companies don't want you to know, is that they work just fine, for a fraction of the price. Go darkside, you will never go back!

[@rayowens4355]

While technically most of what is presented here is correct, (I don't buy the car tire coming of the rim, come on, really!). I have put quite a few miles on a darkside vtx 1300. From my experience i can say the increased braking traction is very significant! It's the only reason i avoided hitting a deer. We were two up at about 60mph. I am not trying to talk anyone into darksiding, but i have done it and will most likely do it again. Current bike came with new tires and still have life. I do want to know why is a car tire usually softer than a bike tire, wears much longer and has better traction than a bike tire? Also, why don't bike tires come in a weight rating to support a fully loaded two up goldwing? Just asking.

[@timwallace8716]

Just went dark side 1000 miles ago , will never go back to overpriced motorcycle tires . There is no reason motorcycle tires could not give the longevity as car tires . I will agree with all the facts brought to light here , but I personally have seen the darkside work on gold wings and harleys , for many miles , and cannot find evidence of a failure , period !!

[@jakeboldt8413]

I've been riding 20+ years, with 17 of those on a Road King and the last couple on my Ultra Classic. I have tried Metzler and Avon, but have always had good performance with Dunlops. In the last few years, I have been running American Elite's, and have to say that I am incredibly happy with them. I have never cheaped out on tires, as it is not only my life on that tire, but my Wife's as well. Therefore, you couldnt pay me to put a car tire on any of my bikes! Thanks for the great video!

[@beverlyhurd8556]

You sound like a lot of other riders that don't care what the truth is. Many thousands of us run car tires on our bikes (I have them on three, soon to be four) with never an issue of any kind. I suggest you get to know some of us that run dark and get the truth about them and not some motorcycle dealer that only wants to make a buck off of you

[@billybob4315]

LMFAO they just said a car tire could slide off of the rim OMG you have obviously never put a car tire on a MC rim how can you talk about something you have never done ...

[@billybob4315]

they also said you will never be able to send electricity 100 miles away ...people are doing it and unless you have experience DOING IT then you really have no idea what your talking about ....man if i get a flat in the middle of nowhere i can drive to get it fixed on MC tire you out of luck ...i think you guys need to try it because your wrong on so many levels i listened to over an hr of good info just to get to the speculation ...and now i hear your a Karen telling INS companies not to insure people what a loser .. people have been doing this since the 60's i guess they were all wrong but your right someone who has never done it ...if its not for you its not for you MOVE ON they are drawbacks but its not the ones your talking about there are benefits and you must decide for yourself if it is worth it ...how many studies have been conducted ?and its not to save a buck for one good RUN FLAT cost more then 2 MC tires its not about money

[@joshszydel8202]

Around 80k miles double dark. Love it!

[@daveyanke8307]

I challenge anyone, at least in the United States, to find just one insurance claim denied due to Darksiding.

[@KevinBaxter]

I'm not aware of any myself. I did have one viewer comment that he had called his insurance company and they said it was perfectly fine to do that. I encouraged him to have his insurance company provide a written statement that they would allow it, that is was acceptable, and please forward it to me because that would be one powerful letter to have...I'd love to see it if a company did.

[@Critter77]

I recently had an accident and one of the questions my agent asked was did I have standard motorcycle tire or a passenger vehicle tire on the bike at time of accident. Just because you don’t find a record of it dint mean it doesn’t happen. You won’t find a public record unless it was challenged In court

[@donaldremington3737]

@@KevinBaxter I have a simple question , why don't we use M/C tires on Cars ? because they aren't made for cars.

[@leewarry8641]

@@donaldremington3737 no because they don't take the weights & would wear out in no time ,that's just a dum statement.

[@joer5057]

​@leewarry8641 they certainly would take the weight. The American Elite in 180/65b16 has an 81 weight class, which is 1,019 lbs per tire. That is 4,076 lbs for a set of 4. Plenty of small cars have GVWR below that, such as the 2020 Corolla, which has a 3,682lb GVWR.

[@thomascampbell2624]

This has been the most comprehensive and analytical dark side discussion I have seen. Thank you

[@corneilcorneil]

"Discussion"... no, 2 guy's with ZERO experience. Just back from a fast group ride. When you can leave faster bikes with MT's behind in corners, all is clear.

[@anthonybluhm4724]

All that means is you are riding with slower or less skilled riders. Let's not pretend that a car tire is better and can make you a more competent rider.

[@guitardzan5641]

Comprehensive? Analytical? With not one data point from an insurance company or anyone else' You were provided opinion, not facts..........Are you a Democrat?

[@charlietaylor6389]

I’ve never done this SO I’m an expert

[@victoryengineer]

Thanks for the great information. I've toyed with the idea of going dark side for a few years but I'm glad you presented the facts. I will never go dark side! I'm not cheap so I'll go for a tire designed for a motorcycle with much more robust construction than a tire designed for a car.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

You sound like a lot of other riders that don't care what the truth is. Many _thousands_ of us run car tires on our bikes (I have them on three, soon to be four) with never an issue of any kind. I suggest you get to know some of us that run dark and get the truth about them and not some motorcycle dealer that only wants to make a buck off of you.

[@RoadieWingZZ]

Great info! Thanks for sharing the facts on the tire differences.

[@KevinBaxter]

Glad it was helpful! Thanks Keith.

[@charleselkins8478]

You may have saved my Life. Thank you!

[@sludge3587]

Great close minded conversation. I just put on a firestone weathergrip on the back of my victory judge and I love it so far. You did convince me to purchase a dunlop American Elite rear 150/80b16 for the front of my bike. That's called Double Darkside!

[@anthonybluhm4724]

Why are you putting a car tire on your rear? Is it just for mileage? There cannot be another reason, can there?

[@johnblassig1666]

@@anthonybluhm4724 It's up to 50% of the cost of a motorcycle tire and four to five times the mileage with better braking and handling in rain and snow and only slightly less performance on dry roads in the twisties.

[@gregrose6915]

@@johnblassig1666 It amazes me that someone will buy a $40,000 motorcycle and skimp on the most important safety feature on that vehicle. Not to mention proper tires is the only thing keeping you from probably getting killed or seriously injured in a blow-out situation . I guess a life isn't worth $200 for a proper tire. But that same thinking is why folks don't wear helmets.

[@MFingChuck]

@@gregrose6915 $200 for a rear tire? Maybe on a Shadow! My local dealer wanted $400 for a rear tire for my VN2000 plus $80 for installation and it lasts for about a year, maybe 2 if the weather is more bad than good.

[@bananascentral]

@@gregrose6915 Hey there Greg. In decades and dozens, I'd never darksided. A GL1500 I purchased recently came with a spanking new E4, but the rain performance is attrocius. If I may speak bluntly, your suggestion that Dunlop is the correct tire for a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g is laughable. If you gave me Dunlop, I'd sell it and buy 2 Shinkos, or one Michelin. Or burn it. Dunlop is garbage in the FL rain. On liter bikes, on the Wing, on metric cruisers, and commuting, Dunlop is the lowest performing tire I've run. E4? Almost highsided me under light throttle in heavy rain. REPEATEDLY! Yes, it's broken in. This is the closest I've come to highsiding, despite riding liter bikes like a sucidal idiot for years. I picked up a used rear wheel for $50 and a "performance" cheapo $66 195/55/r16 off amzn. Night and day in the rain, the rear brake performace is drastically improved, no more spinning. More traction, more braking, less wear, less cost. I will not be converting any of my other bikes darkside but, the Wing stays this way. Next time, I'm gonna buy a run-flat, which is a HUGE safety upgrade! Nice!

[@allthekidsareright]

A lot of things about a car tire seem good. -Higher load rating -last longer -better grip -cheaper Negatives -bike pushes back some in corners -this video said thinner sidewalls -connection on rim is different

[@postersm7141]

I didn’t know that Steve Martin knew so much about tires :;

[@chrismorris9065]

As an independent m/c repair shop, I refuse to install car tires on a m/c rim. We are just opening ourselves up to lawyers including us in a lawsuit if someone is killed or seriously injured in an accident!

[@nunya9555]

But, as an independent m/c repair shop, you also completely wash your hands of liability every time you install any motorcycle tire, even those approved for a motorcycle. And so does the tire manufacturer. We motorcyclists are left out on our own to fend for ourselves. If a blow out happens with an approved tire, too bad. Zero warranty. If that happened on a car, the tire would be replaced with apologies, or even a huge lawsuit like the Ford/Firestone debacle. Motorcyclists are tired of overpaying for tires with zero warranty or recourse for faulty parts. If the tire isn't worth a warranty, is it worth installing? Why should a tire with 6 pounds of rubber cost as much as a light truck tire with 35 pounds of rubber? Its not liability to pay lawyers, because the whole industry washes their hands of the transaction, like you did in your statement above. The attitude here in the USA is that a motorcyclist that gets hurt on a bike deserves it, and knew the risks. I have seen it many times.

[@MrStupidpuppy]

@@nunya9555 well said.... I'm doing allot of research on this.... And have heard and seen MULTIPLE instances where the CT actually provides more traction.... The contract patch being the width of the tire eases concerns of fresh tar and chip roads, as well as tar snakes... And the sidewalk hanging a little more flex is irrelevant when figuring that the tire is overall doing less work on a bike than for is intended purpose... Car tires are scientifically designed to handle up to 50% of the vehicle's weight... Which is usually more than the total weight of the bike, plus rider and gear....

[@unbannable9205]

I understand your point. But another hidden agenda you have is not selling the customer a 300$ MC tire right? I know shops hate to see ppl put car tires on as they are losing money. Its mostly about the money. As pointed out there are no stories of someone dying in a MC crash due to having a car tire on the rear.

[@mikecomeaux6234]

I have a 2002 Goldwing weighing in at 1300lbs loaded out. I am on my 2nd car tire and only have 1 issue. That is I get 35k miles on the tire and that is a good thing. Dark siding is the best move I have ever made!! More rubber on the road and better handling.

[@harley62t]

I run American Elite tires on my Indian and on my Harley Ultra Ltd - get great mileage, handling, etc. I wouldn't bother with a car tire on the rear of either bike. However, I've heard the logical arguments against a car tire - all logical except for one thing. The experience of the dark siders is there haven't been a large (if any?) number of failures of the car tires. They simply wear out and get replaced. I have several GWer friends running them. I can see they don't have much of a contact patch in the curves....but aside from that, they are happy with the tire. Again, I wouldn't bother with one on my bikes, but the argument against a car tire just rings hollow when the experience seems to say otherwise. BTW, absolutely love your shows and vids. VERY good topics and coverage of issues and tech. Keep it coming!!

[@nunya9555]

A motorcycle approved tire also has very little contact patch when leaning, but then again it always has very little contact patch. There was some good info in this series, but it was basically a guy that sells tires protecting his sales. Motorcycle tires have zero warranty, and should not cost what they cost due to the relative materials and construction methods used compared with auto tires.

[@mikesteele1789]

Nobody ever said they were cheap 😂

[@marcellomartell5312]

It was a pain in the butt to try to pry(even at a tire shop) a car tire over my rim. I doubt that tires going anywhere It's a drive flat as well so extra beefy

[@JayBearjaysbigadventure]

This is typical of someone setting up a scenario to support their position. If this was a true comparison, the section of the tires would have been equally sized - not a small slice of the car tire and 10-12" of the motorcycle tire, Also, almost all dark siders go with a run-flat tire which then has significantly stiffer sidewalls. Also, I truly do not believe that that car tire was a 195/55-16. Great interview, but you knew what your thoughts were and set this up to support it. That's opinion, masquerading as science. Shame on you. Also, please provide any evidence of a dark side tire coming off the rim, or an accident caused by it. Everyone can find stories of motorcycle tires delaminating, disintegrating, etc. I've searched and can not find reliable evidence of a car tire failure causing a crash. You'd think if they were in a group when it happened it would be all over the internet! "Hey ya'll, looka here! This moron had a CAR TAHR on his bike and looky what happened to him"... Yet with as many people who are doing it, you'd expect there to be multiple incidences. Hmmmm. And yes, I run a car tire on my BMW K1600GT and have several videos on my channel. Come on over, I've got my flame suit right here... -jaysbigadventure

[@donaldremington3737]

Wonder if anyone has asked their insurance agent the question ? Would having a non approved tire get my claim tossed ? We talk about insurance , but it would be nice to have the facts. As the Dunlop rep said he's never won a discussion with a darksider.

[@williambalyx1053]

thankfully there are not that many stupid people out there riding car tires.

[@guitardzan5641]

@@donaldremington3737 Good luck finding an insurance agent EVER saying ANYTHING not approved would be approved by him..... What kind of crap are you smoking?

[@marcellomartell5312]

On thing I'd like to see is talk about double darksiding. A rear tire on the front. I can achieve 30k on a rear tire being in the front

[@got2kittys]

It's so hard to get them on, I don't think the bead line matters much. My new Dunlop is half gone, and feels "off" after 3000 miles. It wont make 5000 miles. Ive done darkside before. I now live on dirt roads, and I'm considering it again, due to the roughness of my roads.

[@ianmills669]

Thanks heaps Kev and Phil, that was the best thing I've ever seen on tyres (Australian spelling) particularly motorcycle tyres!

[@Critter77]

I totally agree it’s ridiculous to run tires not meant for rims. Wish I could have caught this live the only question I have for him was why don’t manufacturers produce a tire with longer tread life on motorcycle tires so we can get that 30k mileage on our bikes when we spend these crazy prices for tires. That being said I usually run a Bridgestone exedra which gets me over 10k and is set at an affordable price of $200. People always seem to forget motorcycle is an expensive habit if you want to do it properly don’t be cheap or it will bite you in the end.

[@jamesbottger5894]

People wouldn't be running car tires if motorcycle tires lasted longer....excellent points!

[@jimm9248]

great video... I wanted to ask about your bike sitting over the winter and not needed to lift off the wheels with the new tire compounds...

[@KevinBaxter]

good question. the older bias ply tires can develop flat spots but doesnt seem to happen with newer tires. if i have a bike in storage, about once every 2 to 3 weeks, i'll roll it a few inches...but i dont believe that's really necessary. just do it cause it makes me feel better.

[@Beach5289]

Great topic , kinda says alot when only one manufacture is willing to accept an invite to support their product , just put my second set of AE's one this spring , after the intense rain storms I've road through on them it's all I'll run on my bagger.

[@steveh.7464]

The cross section of the motorcycle tire looks like twice as much tread rubber as the car tire, seems like it should last longer than a car tire mounted on a motorcycle, but I got far more wear from the car tire. The tread on the car tire felt softer, too. Why don't motorcycle tires last longer?

[@KevinBaxter]

MC tires have a much smaller contact patch than car tires....and because they roll, side to side, require much softer compounds as well for traction. So...they wear quicker.

[@gravedigger8]

the tire manufacturers need to make bike tires that hget higher mileage

[@toanogreen]

That's the real issue to me as well. Paying 2 to 3 times the cost for a third of the mileage is why I'm seriously thinking of going Darkside. I understand the engineering process fully, but other than some installation on the rim, I still have not seen data that shows the negative effect of putting a CT on a bike. And to the comment about putting a CT on front of the bike, Double Darksiding is a practice (rear bike tire on front) that many Darksiders do.

[@robertpulliam9973]

As I stated in the previous video my Yamaha Roadliner had an aftermarket “training wheels” trike kit and when the original tires wore out I dark sided the rear tire. My traction both starting and stopping improved probably 200%, I had a busy 2 lane highway I had to cross on the way away from home and returning, with the motorcycle tire it would spin on acceleration halfway across the road. After the car tire installation I would hear a deep squall and I would launch cross the highway rapidly. Similar performance was felt on braking, I didn’t use by much front braking to stop. I realize I wasn’t experiencing any leaning, but when I first installed it I took it for a short ride before reinstalling the training wheels (about 5 miles) and the only thing I noticed was the feel of the edge of the tread as it crossed over the edge, it wasn’t that noticeable by the end of the 5 miles. To address the “issue of conspiracies” if car tire manufacturers can make a tire last 40,000-60,00 miles carrying twice the weight of a motorcycle tire why can’t motorcycle tire be made to last at least half that long? They are using three times the rubber thickness in the tread according to the cutaways you had, yes the sidewalls are thicker which I understand to keep you safe in a flat. Unless your expert can give a very convincing argument as to why motorcycle tires cost 2-3 times as much but give 4-6 times less mileage people are going to say it’s a conspiracy.

[@markkiger927]

Excellent information & very informative.

[@Dan-rc4cx]

ok then. I know guys who run car tires on the back. Car tires last 35,000 miles on a motorcycle. They cost $85. They have good grip and don't slip and work great in the rain. So why can't the motorcycle tire last that long?

[@JamesWatsonPA]

I am amazed at how cavalier people are about putting car tires on motorcycles (On a couple of forums I'm on). Not surprised that insurance would decline a claim with a car tire on the back. I would never think to do this. Too much at stake for me. Great video, thanks!

[@unbannable9205]

well dont worry about those ppl. They will be fine. You just dont read those posts ok.

[@Magicinstalls]

@@unbannable9205 Darwin will sort them out in the end…

[@guitardzan5641]

When was insurance EVER declined because of a car tire on the back? There are many people searching for this information with no luck.

[@samueljeppsen9785]

Great info. And did not know that insurance companies will, or most likely deny claims on darkside riders. Now that the tires are lasting longer for us high mileage riders, its not a concern anymore.

[@quintenhart8330]

I've seen several videos on it that have asked insurance providers about using a car tire and none have said they would deny the claim.

[@rtoledo2]

Insurance companies will deny you if you fart on the bike. I had a Avalanche " totalled " because the bolt on bracket on the tip of the frame CRUSHED ( as it's supposed to ) only the radiator and a/c condenser where damaged nothing else , the truck had 25000 miles . the bracket cost me 65.00 at the Chevy dealer in Cerritos , made money buying the truck back from Geico. they total vehicles, sell them to Chinese buyers that put them in containers and sgip them back to China and sorrounding countries and make a bundle. meanwhile Geico gives you pennies on your vehicle and they make money.

[@JoseMorales-vw4qf]

I learned a lot from you guys. Well presented. Good fellows,Thanks.

[@corneilcorneil]

So, you learn things from 2 guy's with zero darkside experience? Again, point one, just ONE darkside related accident.

[@sumncguy]

Yeah .. I ran dark on my Wings for over 100k miles. No issues. My challenge is to find any report of a dark side coming off the rim while under way.

[@jamesbottger5894]

Good luck with that. I haven't been able to find anything either...

[@ostbob4108]

So why don't you get as many miles on a MC tire compared to a car tire, why is the wear so much more on a MC tire?

[@KevinBaxter]

softer compounds typically

[@tylerfj24]

those sound like great topics cant wait

[@jimwortham8634]

Thanks for posting been thinking about going dark sorry for years we are being ripped off by MC tower companies overpriced no mileage something should be done

[@ocglide2566]

Great content really enjoyed all the info on tires, I am a big fan of the Dunlop American Elite tire won’t use any other tires on my Road Glide Special.

[@KevinBaxter]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@brentvonaschen7064]

I know this was from 3 years ago but if comments are still open how do i reach the Dunlop Tech? My trike is a different animal

[@MelloYellow510]

Dark siding is so much more than getting double for half the price. It’s being safe too, car tires have a higher rating and can take more load. We all know that the majority of touring bikes are way overloaded for MC rating.

[@Myrune1]

You guys actually lied about some of the darkside stuff. I'm not a darksider, but you are lying. Tires are no joke, but no insurance has ever been denied due to darksiding. Further, I've not heard of anyone having a worse experience with a car tire going flat versus a motorcycle tire going flat. I've had dozens of flats on motorcycles and they are always entertaining at the least. BTW, this conversation convinced me to try the darkside. One of my riding buddies has been doing it for decades. I'll be joining him in that pursuit this year. We have a 7,500 mile road trip planned and I'm sick of getting less than 10k on a $300 tire with $100 mounting. I'll do it myself now. Thankyouverymuch! (I've always mounted my dual sport tires. Time to start doing my own touring tires.

[@BigBlock402]

Thank you that settles it for me on my thinking about the Darkside for my Goldwing. I will stick to my Dunlop Elite 4s.

[@KevinBaxter]

Right on

[@KevinBaxter]

Like the username by the way. I'll be revealing the story on my 67 SS Chevelle but fitted with a 427 here soon.

[@BigBlock402]

@@KevinBaxter sounds awesome. I have a 402 in my 64 C10 that I have owned since 1989.

[@ace1usmc]

BigBlock 402 - Don't listen to these guys regarding this particular subject. I say that with all due respect to Kevin - he's clearly an outstanding HD technician and diagnostician. But he's never ridden a bike with a car tire on it. And why? Because of fear of the unknown. I was hesitant to try it, but now that I have, and realize none of my fears/reservations were justified - I'll never go back to a motorcycle tire on the rear unless I'm going to the track where hundredths of a second count. My Michelin car tire is ROCK SOLID in the corners, and grips a THOUSAND times better on the highway in rain and wet conditions. I can hang my butt off the side of the seat, and scream through the twists on my Goldwing on the street every bit as confidently as I could before I went darkside. People that say it's because we (Goldwing riders) are cheap are stupid. We aren't typical HD riders that just ride to the bar on Friday night. Goldwing riders actually ride their bikes for tens of thousands of miles each year. I've had mine for less than 2 years, and I've already got 58k miles on it.

[@KevinBaxter]

@@ace1usmc You are absolutely correct sir...I have never ridden a bike with a CT on it. Many who have commented, saying nasty things about this directed at me (your's certainly was not and I thank you for that), seem to forget 2 very big variables. 1....Im a shop doing the work. That work comes with potential liability. In the case something did happen, it simply is not worth it for me to risk my company, family, etc to mount a tire in an application it is not intended for. I agree, i cant find a single case where a CT on a bike caused an accident, but I wont take the chance. Secondly, most shops will not mount them because either they, or they know someone, who installed a CT on an MC wheel and the tire blew off during mounting/seating the bead. I for one, have seen it at a friends tire shop. Regardless, I have no dog in this fight or desire to debate with anyone over the topic. Pretty much the same philosophy of pulling a trailer behind a bike. I've never done it, never hooked a trailer to a bike, nor will I install hitches. I don't feel it's proper. If one wants to do it, more power to them, but I am not willing to take a liability risk over the issue...and like Forest Gump said....."Thats all i gotta say about that". LOL

[@trucker-d4161]

Darksider here, have never ever heard of anyone, having the tire slide off of the rim. I don’t think there is any conspiracy thing going on. I’ve seen video of a super bike with a car tire on it going around the track, with a camera showing the tire at all times. Could not get the tire to fail in any shape or form. I think you guys including insurance companies in your conversation, leads me to believe there could be an agenda hear to bring it to the insurance companies attention.

[@unbannable9205]

Probably more of a motorcycle tire maker making an issue due to lost tire sales?

[@tomos2825]

Everyone is expert since Internet became available.You install whatever you want on your bike wheels,but be Shure you are not a SMART PERSON. School exists for reasons like to teach dumb as#@##&s like DARK SIDE EXPERTS. Engeniring exist for a reason . So good luck to all dark side convert's.

[@Donfleebie1]

How about running a runflat darkside?

[@matthunting1162]

Was waiting to hear someone mention checking tire pressure at cold condition.

[@donaldremington3737]

Good point. And a discussion of Tirepressure Monitoring Systems would be good.

[@patp4123]

The next time you have a tire manufacturer on..can you please press them on , "are you going to make a 180mm front tire" . I love the look of the mod...but refuses to do it on my rg ultra until there is a front tire made for that application... for reason mentioned in this video..

[@JCunningham21]

One thing i havent seen about Motorcycle tires it operating temps. i have a 2017 Camaro SS and the stock tires cant be driven on below 35F. the tires i have on it now cant even be stored below 20F. We ride snowmobiles up here in ny. if the roads dry and you are a kid on a cheap crotch rocket you wear the same gear.

[@warricknorris5034]

Excellent info

[@KevinBaxter]

Glad it was helpful! Be sure to subscribe if you haven't already. Have some great content coming. Thanks!

[@kensasser7077]

I have rode over 100000 miles on darkside wit on trouble

[@freebird7284]

well it is your ass

[@WhimsicalEngineer]

Running a run flat car tire is a more rigid tire than the sample cross section of tire you had in this video even though I know people using standard car tires to which i would not do , just saying...... I CAN tell of a RF blowout and I observed a safe pull over and a 30km limp home on it. The disclaimer is it was on a sidecar rig. when you speak of Goldwingers having to go to car tires it is because 1000$ worth of tire should last more than 10000 km's - the so called 'made for' elite 3's were not even close to working on such heavy bikes imho. I do not know the extent of the elite 4's as of yet, i have not heard any feedback yet, I hope they have finally made tires for a heavy bike....

[@unbannable9205]

"1000$ worth of tire should last more than 10000 km's " what are you talking about? You can get a Dunlop set front and rear for under 500. I am running a Dunlop E4 on my goldwing and its perfect. Dont post if you dont know wtf you are talking about please.

[@ace1usmc]

So, cue the feigned outrage and ridicule, but I've been running darkside for 8,000 miles now, and I'll never go back to motorcycle rear tires unless I know I'm gonna be on a track. I was a die hard HD rider for the majority of my life, and now that I ride a Goldwing - I'm amazed at the amount of hate and vitriol that's spewed at me from HD riders. I worked in the service department at a very large HD dealership, and I can tell you that it's VERY rare to see a HD with 100k miles. In fact, I never saw it. Not once. That's just not the case with Goldwings. The main difference in the train of thought is, when you put in real, serious miles on your bike, then you get tired of spending thousands of dollars a YEAR on just tires. Yes, it's a vital piece of engineering and equipment. However, I run a quality Michelin A/S steel belted radial, and I ride insanely hard. My butt hanging off of the side of the bike, and still scraping a bit in the corners. The bike grips every bit as hard as it did with the OEM Dunlops. I regularly SMOKE HD riders going over Geiger Grade in Reno, Million Dollar Hwy in CO, etc. Haven't found one yet that could hang with me on the Goldwing. After 8,000 miles of hard riding, it doesn't even look like I've made a serious dent in the tread depth. When I ride across the country, I can't even make half of a trip without having to change a set of motorcycle tires. Now, I can ride with confidence, grip, wet weather - whatever. You guys that are knocking it should try opening up your brains just a teeny bit. This guy from Dunlop has a career and a pension to worry about. Do you think he's not 100% biased??? Why didn't he bring a comparable cross section of car tire to compare, instead of the teeny sliver of tire?

[@3360274]

The most important thing for control I found is the right air pressure. A little extra, like close to 40 psi makes mine handle just like a m/c tire. I installed mine on my Indian Roadmaster and will do it again. I like the extra tracktive effort and braking due to more rubber on the road. Grooved pavement doesn't matter. Anyway, I won't ride on dunlops because there are other bike tires out there that handle much better. Continental and Perillis beat them hands down on handling.

[@3360274]

Car tires are normally rated at higher temps, loads and grip. Plus, you will never put as much sidewall pressure on a m/c when cornering as car tires have to endure.

[@kerrylewis2581]

Fact: There are many things that make riding a motorcycle dangerous. Question: Why would you ever take this risk? I've also discussed this with with a GWing rider that had gone to the darkside and just could not get my point across. I told him to let all the air out of his rear tire and go for a ride because that is what a flat is going to feel like. Imagine going 70MPH and having a blowout. Scary stuff.

[@KevinBaxter]

This was about the best perspective I've read on the subject. Thank you sir.

[@righttorecord3538]

Try having a steering tire blow out on a 40 ton semi. All machines are dangerous. However, 300,000 Americans will die this year from voluntary tobacco use. Another 40,000 will die from secondhand smoke. Around 5000 die annually from riding motorcycles. You're 8 times more likely to die because you're in a room with a smoker than you are riding a motorcycle. One is a slow, agonizing death as cancer devours your lungs.

[@nunya9555]

Maybe you couldn't get your point across because nearly all darksiders use RUN FLATS. Maybe you should get some MC tires that can do that? Wait, they don't exist. And, MC tires are more prone to flats.

[@timwallace8716]

I cannot find one single failure on a dark side tire . I just went dark on my stratoliner , love it !

[@jamesbottger5894]

I know a Gold Wing owner who did just that. He let all of the air out of his run flat car tire and rode the bike. He said he couldn't even tell that the tire had no air in it...let's see someone do that on a motorcycle tire....

[@lloydhorton4290]

No darksiding for my bike! Just wish could get more than 3000-4000 miles on back dunlop.

[@unbannable9205]

haha dont we all. well I will get more than 3-4k on my goldwing but yet I probably ride way more than you. (5k a month) darksiding is on the agenda for the GW as I live where there are no twistys. Will put the MC tire and rim on when I go to the mountians. Sounds like a plan.

[@NativeSD53]

Phil said Balancing Beads void the tire warranty.... But if the beads are in the tube.....No problem, Rihgt?

[@KevinBaxter]

Yes he did....but....I have NEVER seen balancing beads do any detectable damage to a tire whatsoever. Well....DynaBeads anyway. Those are what I use. Cant speak for everyone of course.

[@opichocal]

Very interesting. I have a goldwing and have been thinking about dark siding for sometime. After watching this video I’ll definitely stick to motorcycle tires. Besides I ride two up 90% of the time and I love to corner. Sorry but I am a Michelin , Bridgestone and Metzler fan. Never been happy with Dunlops

[@donaldremington3737]

I recently bought a 2018 GW. I had ridden H D for over 30 years, and Dunlop have gotten progressively better thru the years. The American Elite has given me , on a 2015 CVO Harley , 25 thousand miles , with legal tread remaining. My GW has them , not sure when they were installed, but I have put over 10,000 mi. on it since March 2021 and the remaining tread is incredible.

[@leewarry8641]

I run a car Tire on rear of my street Bob with sidecar ,it's a 17 inch 165 it is great never had a problem .The one he's showing is a low profile car tier the reason you cant fit one on the front is they don't fit on the front , I get 5 times the mileage & it grips great .you have to remember these people want to sell you the dearest there they can . By the way insurance companies do not void your policy if you have a car tier just look it up it has never happened, as well car tier,s run cooler ,are made to take more weight , ask anyone that runs them don't just listen to a shop that wants to sell you a tier evrey 8,ooo miles instead of 50,000 miles yes that's what you get out of a car tier on a bike.another fact there has never been a report of a car Tyler coming off a rim just get the right size .

[@stevenpierce9160]

I believe you sir

[@Yamahog]

I wish I had known Phil was going to be in-house with you , I would have wanted him to iterate on the Tire's Sipe direction. Why do the Sipes on North American brands run counter intuitively to the Asian brands. Eg, if you stand by the front of the bike and look at the sipes on the rear tire from that vantage point , the Sipes run downward on the rear tread as such: V. but on the front tire , NA keeps wanting to put them ass backwards as an A format . Asian brands like Chang Sheng, Kenda and Shinko will have both front and rear treads in the V format. As side note here, my old Virago had the Sipes in the V format front and back, and no issues plowing through water at 50 ~ 60 mph when 2 inches deep on the road due to getting caught in a thunder storm down pour. Kawasaki is the same. My Bolt is A centric on the front. ( a mix, hmm ),.... Bridgestone , on both rims. ( I got about 14,000 + miles out of the Chang Sheng, 16.500 out of my Kenda's, will see what my Sis gets out of the Shinko 140/90 R 15 that she has now........) Excellent info , Kevin Thanks again W

[@rockyrossini4419]

explain harley free wheeler set up ??

[@dougfresh1341]

Love this channel. It is the ONLY channel I've ever paid for. I appreciate Kevin's expertise. But we disagree on the tire stuff, maybe politics & breakfast cereal too...and I'm ok with that. I have a video about my research and experience, look it up if you like. To keep it short here, I'll just link the best article about why CT's work on bikes. www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a8606/why-so-called-darksiders-prefer-auto-tires-on-their-motorcycles/ Just took off Dunlop American Elite. About 12k miles. $250 + mount/balance. Friend just changed Bridgestone on Kaw Nomad after 9k mile. Are you all satisfied with that performance? Fun fact, CTs are ridden almost 2 million miles every year on bikes.

[@KevinBaxter]

Thank you Doug! Cant argue the fact that I've never heard of an accident due to a CT on an MC. That is true...however, I'm also in the motorcycle business and have a moral and legal obligation to install tires that are designed and certified for their specific purpose. Just like i wouldnt put a trailer tire on a car....if a customer wants to have that done, i simply have to refer them to someone else. As for cereal...i think everyone likes captain crunch. LOL and for politics...i only have those conversations while sharing an Old Fashioned or Capt and Coke. LOL

[@dougfresh1341]

Kevin Baxter Cap’n Crunch! The bomb. Being in the MC business opens up other issues. 🤘🏾 In my video I make clear it’s individual responsibility. Ordered the Darkhorse Comp Sprocket today. Thinking about doing that job myself...along with that irritating shift shaft seal that leaks all the time. 🤬 $3 part, whole day job. Thanks again

[@KevinBaxter]

See...we agree on cereal. LOL. Agreed..individual responsibility. Excellent! drill a small hole in the seal, hook a pic thru the hole, and it'll pry right out...but still a pita. The tough one is the main shaft to main drive gear seal....that's a pain. Good luck...thanks again sir.

[@imadjubranimad3341]

I wonder how much Dunlop paid you to make this video? I just called my insurance and I was told I’m fine with a car tire , however, it must be DOT Approved.

[@KevinBaxter]

Actually, they didn't pay me a penny...nor did i receive free product or benefit of any kind from them. If you can get that in writing from your insurance company, I would actually be THRILLED to see it or if you would be willing to share the contact information of who you talked to, I'll see if they will do a live broadcast with me! It would be the first time anyone has ever been able to produce anything of the sort. You would be starting quite a precedence. If you do, please email to me.

[@imadjubranimad3341]

Kevin Baxter I just emailed my insurance company and I’m waiting for the response, once I get the email I will share it with you, also I was talking about your Guest he brought a small piece of a car tire and compared it to very large pice of motorcycle tire, you will hear from me once I get the response. Thank you

[@KevinBaxter]

That is awesome! Cant wait to see that. I will say, comparing just about any auto tire cross section to a M/C one...the sidewalls on a car tire are far less structural than an MC tire. More than I expected really.

[@quiettime6871]

@@KevinBaxter I wonder how many more years until he shares the email

[@garycopeland1798]

I’ve been running a ca tire on my Rocket3 for 4 years because I got tired of paying $385 every 3,000 to 6,000 miles. I was running metzler tires which I won’t run ever again. Both tires separated with steel wire sticking out of the tire: I have had no problems with the car tire so far. I don’t ride real aggressive on curvy roads. Motorcycle tire manufacturers need to reduce their outrageous prices for bike tires. The bikes with the wide rear tires are very expensive.

[@joshp5254]

I like how he goes “I see there is 2-3 times more material in the motorcycle tire”. Truth is though it’s 2-3 times more material but it’s soft trash that can’t hold up to the weight of a fully loaded motorcycle. And tire manufacturers will not make a high mileage motorcycle tire because they want to see that $$ coming in steady. You make a 240/40r18 or 250/40r18 motorcycle tire that lasts 20,000 miles I’ll buy it today.

[@manuhonkanen2111]

4:55 Says well that this video was sided!

[@jamesbottger5894]

His cutaway example of a car tire is clearly not a run flat. They have much thicker sidewalls, and are a much heavier built tire than ANY motorcycle tire. He didn't address why motorcycle tires last 1/2, or 1/3 as long as a car tire. He may be correct about insurance companies denying claims for bikes using a car tire. Insurance companies are notorious for finding ANY reason to deny paying out claims. There are a lot of things he didn't talk about...the fact that a car tire has a larger contact patch than a motorcycle tire, or that they also channel rain away from the tread better, and no mention that motorcycle tires aren't even available in a run flat...his point about the bead not matching up is kind of moot as I've never heard of a tire failing because of a mismatch of the bead on the rim...also, his opinion is slanted toward his profession. Of course he's not going to talk favorable about using a car tire....

[@dangalli1]

Tends to slide off the rim, I say BS.

[@corrybrown7993]

Biased opinion from someone that’s in the business to sell motorcycle tires

[@philoakley221]

Enjoyed the discussion. Facts win the day.

[@karmsenrab8587]

I fill my tyers with silicone, that way I don't have to worry about flats!

[@paulshpardy7536]

I put a car tire on my 2009 Stratoliner back in 2016 at the 30000 km mark. I have ridden that bike for 26000 kms with no serious issues. But I did have a couple of observations. On the Stratoliner when I would roll on the throttle in the corners or even in the straights I would feel a bit of a flex in the tire. It concerned me at the beginning but then as any good human...I adapted. The second thing that bothered me with the car tire was the grinding strips in the road or any uneven pavement. Because of the flatness of the tire it was always wanting the get off the ridge and drop down lower. When it did that it would tip the bike unexpectedly. So after a bit of riding on that I also adapted. They were really the only two concerns that I had. The other thing that I noticed was riding on gravel or dirt roads. The bike was more difficult to handle has the road got rougher. In loose gravel it was a bit nerve wrecking sometimes and I would not go far in loose gravel roads if i could avoid it. I just had that tired removed yesterday because I am selling the bike. Overall if I was going on a long cross country/province trip then a car tire can save you a lot of money but you will sacrifice some performance. As far as safety of care tires on the bike, I had no issues. The tire still looks great and the grip for starting and stopping was fantastic. These were my observations and other out there may have had different experiences. Hope this helps. Oh, the tire was a Goodyear Triple Tread.

[@jamescantlin1072]

I know a guy that put a car tire on a his bike he told me to take it for a ride so I did I went 2 miles out of town and back very hard to turn and bike don't lean side to side it wants to stay straight up did not handle worth a shit I would never put a car tire on my bike and anyone that does is having a bran fart !!!! Not safe at all !!! If you can't afford the right tires for your bike, then you can't afford the bike!!!

[@yoso585]

Nonsense.

[@marcusseaton9458]

Interesting video but seems very biased! Also jumping out of an airplane without a parachute is not a fair comparison. Also to be clear I do not darkside.

[@mixmarkt4754]

Oh yes of course! Excellent advertisement! What can a motorcycle tire salesman say about the dark side? I drove a Honda GW 1800 and 2 times was with a gray head. When I got air out of the wheel. I had my wife and luggage with me. I've been to Dunlop. As long as there is air in it everything is ok! Without air, it's a deflated condom! I've gone to the dark side of ranflat!!! wounds and have done over 120,000 miles. There were punctures and cuts on the wheels, but the motorcycle does not fall!!! Damn manufacturers, where are your moto wheels with ranflat!!??

[@jamestouchstone4]

We in Germany drive on the right side of the road

[@joelthemole3020]

Everything they said here on darksiding tires is that the shoulder profile is different, the bead profile doesnt match, and the car tires are not made to run flat. The darksiders run car tires for higher load tolerance (no one wants to tell their wife what they can and cant pack on a road trip) and for the tread compounds that last longer. Neither of these things is mutually exclusive on the tire manufacturing side. My problem with this is that this guy clearly has some influence with a major tire manufacturer, and he says his major worry is about safety and saving lives, if that is the case why doesn't he influence Dunlop to make tires with a motorcycle shoulder profile, bead profile, and run flat qualities, made from a good car tire compound? There are Goldwing riders out there who load their bikes with more weight than any motorcycle tire is rated for, then put 100k miles a year on their bikes, is it reasonable to ask them to change tires every 5-7k miles for a total of 14-20 times a year? I am not endorsing darksiding, but it does work, and from what they said here all the safety issues are solvable at the manufacturer level, so why doesnt any tire manufacturer provide that solution? I dont am not big on conspiracy theories, but following a money trail isnt hard when you have a whole group of folks that are perfectly happy with the handling and stopping performance of a car tire that lasts 30-60k miles on a motorcycle, and all the tire manufacturers are demanding they stop doing that to use tires that only last 5k miles instead of providing a motorcycle tire with a longer lasting compound.

[@KevinBaxter]

The one consistent thing I read and hear....is the challenge to produce only 1 report of an accident caused by running a car tire on a motorcycle. Truth is, I can't find it. So many have the position that it is perfectly fine to do, and is better....that it is a conspiracy. Not withstanding.... I have passed along a similar challenge...for anyone that says this is perfectly fine to do, produce a letter from an insurance company, a motorcycle company, wheel company, tire manufacturer, UL labs, any testing agency, NHTSB....anyone that could be considered an authority on the subject, saying this is acceptable, safe and permissible...anyone other than the owner of the motorcycle, willing to accept any and all responsibility in the event of an accident. No-one has ever been able to produce that either. I have no dog in this fight. I really dont care to discuss it really. I wont do it. Period.

[@joelthemole3020]

My problem with all this is that while I am not gung ho about putting car tires on a motorcycle, sadly it does solve some problems these sorts of touring bikes and riders have, but that I would MUCH rather see solved by tire manufacturers giving us the option of longer life motorcycle highway tires with a heavier weight limit, and not just for cost saving. I recently purchased a 2014 Goldwing Valkyrie and I am planning to take a long trip from Texas up the west coastal highway scenic route up to Washington state when the weather gets nice enough. This is a trip that is probably 5000-6000+ miles depending on how much side tracking I do. My current motorcycle tires have about 70% life, and by the time the weather gets nice enough that will probably be down to 60-65%. Should I buy brand new tires before the trip and have them installed and throw out my existing tires with over half their life left remaining, and hope the new tires last the entire trip? Should I try to predict where my existing tires will run out of life and call ahead to that area, find a tire shop willing to change motorcycle tires, and special order my tires to one of those shops and hope I did not wildly over or under estimate how far my tires would make it? Should I just make the trip and hope to find someplace that has a 19"/17" high weight compacity touring tires that will work for my bike and maybe risk getting stuck? Or should I just go darkside and not have to worry about my tires at all for the next year? As I said, none of these options is great, but since we dont have tire manufacturers giving us the option to have good high mileage touring bike tires with a compound similar to what a good car tire has, I am just stuck trying to make the best of my very sub optimal options.

[@unbannable9205]

@@joelthemole3020 Put new tires on before your trip.

[@roberthillman1]

No way would I put a car tyre on my Goldwing!

[@mickc4633]

So I had a blowout this year rear tire. Coming back from Tennessee 500 miles. Running highway speeds 75 , 80 mile an hour in the rain. I truly think if I was riding on the dark side I would not have been able to keep the bike straight. Another words we would’ve went down. I Musta ran something over and had a slow leak as we were riding in the rain I just thought the bike was floating a little bit . Once I hit a work zone and had to slow down the bike was all over the place. If I was riding on a dark side they would’ve been all over. That stiff side wall stiff tire save my ass many times. I always ride very heavy to up I wanna CVO dresser that’s about as heavy as you can get. The worst thing about it is the people trying to run me over so try to keep the bike under control. If I had a car tire on the back of that bike it probably would’ve came off the rim. Love following you. So my bike is a 14 Twin cam water cold which I am going to keep for a long time. And when it’s time to get work done you’re going to do it. Just want a good Torquay motor dependable. Thanks Kevin

[@shadowbanned761]

I got 40.000 miles on my austone taxi tire on a ultra classic and can hardly tell any wear. I will say I don't drive fast and take it nice and easy. If I was driving like a bat out of hell I would ride bike tires. But being poor trailer trash living on army disability changing tires every 5000-10000 miles is not in the cards. the reason for not riding a austone in my front is simply because the front tire lasts a lot longer so there is no need to change to austone. If they wore out at 5000 miles I would ride austone in front to:)

[@dannywalker9926]

Just an FYI, a lot of people do run car tires on the front of a motorcycle as well as the rear. Especially a Honda gold wings

[@ldeanmason1788]

Well Dang.. You had to mention why they dont put car tires on the front.. Well... just had a bike come into my shop this week and they had car tires front & Rear.. We will not text ride a bike w/car tires on it! and Phil is correct. You can NOT win an argument with these darksiders.

[@random8doe348]

"the fact and the deal is" if you haven't tried it, you're talking from books.

[@GreenLegendRan]

He says the tire tends to come off the rim, but where are the stories of this? You would think with the 15,000+ darksiders there would be people talking about how they survived a crash and now need to evangelize other darksiders back to motorcycle tires, but it never gets to that in all the anti-darkside rants I've seen. Dunlop is not an un-biased opinion, and there is no mention of rubber deforming to adjust itself to that other bead shape. This video series is laced with half-truths from an authoritative source. Car tire sidewall is thinner? Well, where are the motorcycle run flats? Are you saying a run flat is thinner?

[@randydixon5621]

I guess if you can't afford a motorcycle tire, maybe you better stick with cars.

[@robertpulliam9973]

It’s not a matter of not affording motorcycle tires, but of common sense. The motorcycle tire industry has successfully convinced the majority of bike riders that they MUST use motorcycle tires. Some of us are proving that you don’t have to buy into their BS.

[@nonofyourbusiness7631]

Lol there isnt a conspiracy. I watched a slow mo video of a car tire on the rear going thru a corner at highway speed. The flex and ripple of the side wall is not what car tires are designed to do. Was enough for me to say fuck this. I spend 500 on motorcycle tires every 2-3 years on my Victory. Barely noticeable

[@unbannable9205]

Bro, i ride so much I put on 5k a month. You know that means every 2 months I need a new MC tire? Maybe if you dont know how much some ppl ride then dont insult their income.

[@FBIMitch]

You said just the facts, then bring some unfounded talks about insurance. The DOT certifies tires, no insurance company can refuse coverage. The fact is the motorcycle tire choose to make an inferior product than what's in cars (planed obsolescence). Also, the car tire on display could me misconstrued as misrepresentation, most darksider will use RunFlat tires with a much stronger side wall... a car can run them flat, imagine a motorcycle... just the facts.

[@MrChopemup]

I used to travel all over Europe and America pretty much no money on my Harley. I would go to the back of motorcycle shops and raid their tire pile . You can find a good rear tire to burn up for a few thousand more miles. For all the talking these in these videos. I could be down the road a few hundred at least With a beer in your hand. Over thinking. Just get a name brand radial. Dunlop Michelin Bridgestone. .next

[@siggsterloo]

it's very clear which side of the aisle you guys are on, it is also clear to me that all your concerns are invalid. I have ran thousands of miles, on #3 different bikes with car tires. They fit very tight, and the sample you are using to represent the car tire is disingenuous. Bridgestone driveguard run flat will rival that MC tire . sounds more like you are steering people away. I'm sure you are both intelligent men, but this is like watching CNN news to get non bias opinion on the republican party .

[@guitardzan5641]

How much you want to bet that Dunlop is lobbying insurance company's to disallow the use of car tires? Follow the money......Every time.

[@JCunningham21]

if you want to put car tires on your gold wing put a trike kit on it. Hay you cant lean your bike anyway.

[@macking1330]

$350 every 6 months nah rip off here in australia the roads are hotter motorcycle tires just cant handle it maybe if there so quick to rubbish car tires why dont they design tires that have more flattened tires on the road then maybe id stay with bike tires

[@paulfiore7083]

How did I know the Dunlop guy was going to nix the car tires??😂

[@KevinBaxter]

Dunlop makes car tires too.

[@unbannable9205]

Ya he said I have no opinion but yet look at all this negative stuff I have to say. LMAO

[@thepinn68]

Bad idea all the way round . Thanks Kevin

[@KevinBaxter]

Thank you

[@josecastaneda7653]

Sir there has never been a accident with a car tire on the rear.you have no facts to say what you said about the dark side.

[@rickswindell1964]

No car tires on my bike!!

[@Evirthewarrior]

I am confused as to why someone doesn't fill the market for this practice, make a proper rim for these darksiders to do their idea. I personally will not be doing it because I can tell the difference between a motorcycle tire and how it is designed and a car tire, but you would think some rim manufacture would be like, oh yea, we can make that rim and do it.

[@toanogreen]

Manufacturers are too cheap/blind to meet the needs of a smaller percent market. IMHO.

[@unbannable9205]

@@toanogreen I agree but I bet if somone made wheels for say goldwings they would sell. But then maybe not as car tires have been working on motorcycle rims for years with no issues. If it aint broken dont fix it right? Just wish these ppl crying about darksiders would shut up

[@scottdouglas518]

Let me kick this dead horse…when I bought my brand new 2010 GL1800 it came with Dunlop 250 I believe. The tires cupped and got poor service life, maybe 4-5000 miles. Started reading about Dunlop catastrophic failures, and with a 2000 mile trip west through Rockies approaching, and after studying pros and cons, I went Dark Side. Kumho RF. Knowing that my GW would be 1300# plus, it was reassuring to have that strong, big contact patch. It performed flawlessly. And that included sporty days chasing through twisties and high speed sweeps. Tire made it 25000 miles, and I only changed it because it was eight years old, although I wasn’t even near the wear indicators. Never heard of a CT coming off the wheel. Total BS my friend. One more thing, I sensed a slight quiver in Mr. Dunlops voice talking the subject. This tells me he knew he was talking from ignorance or flat out lying. They stopped producing the Kumho in my size (they are made for the Mini) so went Yokohama RF. Even a more plush ride.

[@Patrick_B687-3]

Had no idea about this darkside thing outside old chopper bikes. Amazed to hear it’s wing riders doing this. Just sounds stupid on its face. But then I’m in the small 30% group and ride a springer no less.

[@dustyolmanolman9933]

It isn't just wingers. Go here and see the list of bikes with DS tires. dsriders.info/

[@DG-ss1gc]

I 100% would never use a car tire, but you guys just PROVED a conspiracy took place when you told the anecdote about you informing the insurance execs about this practice, who then moved to deny all claims for those using the wrong tire. By definition ! Lol . Now is it a bad thing you conspired across industry to throw a wrench in these dark siders plans to upset the motorcycle tire industry? I don’t think so, but take a different stance. Hand waving the conspiracy angle HURTS your case , which you can easily make on the facts alone as you’ve done here.

[@wonderwing5139]

I've been darkside on large frame touring bikes for years. And back tires on the front when possible. I prefer to keep back tires on front in normal rotation if possible to keep water shedding correct. I've ran beads in the past, now use Centramatics. I'm currently on a 2018 Wing. After the POS M8 mess with my 2017 RoadKing. I will never own another Harley again unless it's a pre WWII bike. Even my RoadKing went DS after the cute Bar & Shield sidewall OEM tires wore out real quick. I will not run DS on a sport, sport touring or adventure bike. The reason why Ins. Companies always fall back to the tire has to be DOT is they don't want racing slicks on street bikes at all. Drag slicks and road racing slicks are a bad no no with ins. co's and cops concerning cars and bikes. Where do you think cheater slicks came from years ago. No ins. co. is going to sign a letter saying car tires are ok. And if there were any court cases concerning the issue. It would spread across the net faster than info about Harley sucking off Obummers EPA and signing the consent decree to help them out with warranty issues concerning the abortion known as M8. This DS tire stuff concerning ins. co. goes around like you shouldn't carry you own loads in your HD/SD pistol. A DA and judges will see you as a vile evil person loading up ammo for the express purpose of killing people and you were just looking for someone to shoot. No court case's on record that anybody can find, or any cases where someone was convicted in a SD/HD shooting lost because of reload/roll your own ammo. We do have a bullet restricted law in my state. Bullet has to be .45 cal or smaller, must have at least 60% lead core and not be coated with materials like teflon to slick them up. Have tread in your tires and DOT and nobody will say a thing about it or care but motorcycle dealers and some Indy shops. I for one don't know why more bikers don't change their own tires, bearings and brake service on there motorcycles. I laughed when Kenvin brought up the old wheel drum balancer. I still use one of them. Dismount and mount my own tires, gravity balance if I using weights and instal back on the car, truck or motorcycle. Strap the bike down and spin them wheels up. Put a timing light on the tire and if there is still a balance issue you can see it. And you can also see out of round, tire, wheel and brake disk run out. Be good or bad at it.

[@mattcero1]

Great idea to run small car tires if you go on a cross country ride. The savings in tires almost pays for the gas.