Motorcycle Tyre Wear on the Track: Common Types and Causes

[@greyanaroth]

This is an amazing video! Really puts all the tidbits Dave Moss throws around in an encyclopaedic fashion. Moss is awesome. Even watching a single one of his (full) videos gives an amazing insight into suspension dynamics

[@hlpang1075]

I love the content from Life at lean, but you might want to check out Dirty Garage Guy’s reviews of Dave Moss and see if he’s still really an expert or not

[@FatherOBlivion]

​@@hlpang1075 . Having interacted with DM at track days here in California, something about him feels traveling carney con-man like. Sets up his tent, lectures to the crowd... Maybe he is the foremost expert, not sure, but he definitely strikes me as a shyster. "Gather round all ye marks! I have the tonic to fix what ails ya! $60 each! Step right up!"

[@nspinicelli]

Saved to favorites! Yeah Dave Moss is a freaking Jedi. I subscribed to him 2 days ago because he blew my mind with caliper maintenance.

[@petebusch9069]

I will watch this at least 20 times.

[@samehsouissi6986]

Hey mate, great video I'm a little confused when it comes to leading edge and back edge which one is which? Could you do a separate video on it

[@denisrailey777]

It is explained on this vid. Leading edge means rebound is too slow.Back edge your rebound too fast.

[@francoislangelier7576]

is what we want to see the same from the rear and front tire ? thank you

[@mrniccomable]

Nice video. I often see pictures of mc tyres on Instagram that look great in the image, but are actually overheated. I wonder if the riders know they shouldn't be looking like that.

[@cedricksamaniego9146]

Education worth my attention💕 I'll probably never see this but this is good know if I or you value your safety on every ride. I've accepted that not every rider does not Lol

[@dogrange]

So good, thanks so much for sharing this info!

[@CarloPiana]

Excellent tutorial, this is highly informative. I experienced bad tear on front and rear with Dunlop GP Racer and excellent wit Conti, now I see (>100 laps and rear looks exactly "as you want it to look"), so I know it's not suspension, rather very likely (excessive) pressure. Nobody has been so spot on explaining it. A+

[@Appelkorn1]

Thanks für this great Video.

[@raynic1173]

Correction: the tires are apart of the over-all suspension. the trick is to not make them more involved than they're designed to be.

[@anidiotinaracingcar4874]

Excellent! Any chance you know of a similar video for car tyres?

[@harley84fly]

Excellent info.

[@drifterxl12]

Great info 👌🏻

[@dclos6296]

4:37 Narrator: "...that could be poor tire pressure, or geometry" Me: "I failed geometry...! I'm out😶"

[@Republicofcomposites]

First cold tear is a compond related issue wrong compound for the track temp or surface. Second the lower the pressure the lower the temp wil get if lower pressure would give lower temp than why do we run our front tyre much higher pressures to get temp in them. Even when overinflating tyres you would never run such a small part of a rear tyre under acceleration. What you do get is when pressure is to low the tyre deforms under leaned acceleration and the inside of the tyre gets pulled away from the asfalt, so why run a wide superbike tyre if you only use 2/3 of it? And last most of the cold tear comes from braking under angle not acceleration.

[@omni1000]

Ok, so I have a bad issue of the 6:32. What do I do to prevent it?

[@IgOtCaNdYiNmYtRuCk]

Hello I'm a rider in Dubai. I've noticed a peculiar wear pattern on my tire that has left me really confused. I hope people with more experience can help me out. I ride a Buell 1125r 2008. I've purchased a new set of tires ( metzeler sportec m7 RR) at the time of purchasing the bike back in July 2016. Tires were manufactured in may 2016. I've put around 9000km on the tires as of today (that's around 5000 miles). The tires were absolutely fine until maybe 4000 miles and then all of a sudden cracks started to appear almost over night. It looks like fissures radiating from the center outwards on the tire. The confusing part is that the same profile of cracks appears in different areas on the front and rear tires. In the rear, the cracks are right on the center band. On the front, the cracks are right in between the center band and the edge of the tire on both sides. Wear markers are not even close to the surface of the tire and I do keep my tire pressure in check consistently as per Buell specs. Can anyone tell me what the issue is and if the tire should be replaced. Thanks.

[@lifeisgood070]

Shit seriously thank you for the note @ 5:19. I just remembered I forgot to change my fork oil. I was tearing the trailing edge of the water channels. Bad suspensions make bikes more adventurous haha.

[@Astroqualia]

Only wear I see most of yall have is when your tire looks more like a u shape instead of a V shape 😂

[@shawsie5780]

Plenty of web sites with same pics and info

[@The124cbr]

oh, and those "melted arcs" of rubber, are a visual cue of where a tyre is providing large amounts of lateral grip vs drive grip. the tyre goes from resisting a sideways slide at full lean providing one visual wear pattern where the lines are parallel to the tyre, to resisting spinning up while the bike is straight up and down, where the lines of rubber move towards being perpendicular to the tyre. the "arc" you can see on the tyre is where the tyre is slipping during that transition as the rider applies throttle and begins to exit the corner. even a tyre that is wearing well will have these tell tales, and it can be a simple way to see how early a rider is managing to apply the throttle on corner exits.

[@STho205]

An absolutely beautiful and very useful presentation for all riders/operators. Should be utilized by all bike mechanics to help explain wear to customers and fairly advise them on suspension modification or service.

[@Dpo2203]

Fantastic , ALL IN ONE VIDEO! Exactly what I try to explain to other riders and helping/ setting suspension up for others for the last 16 years . Many thanks.

[@LifeatLean]

My pleasure, Dave!

[@GigachadAKM]

What a channel! Subbed.

[@luisv8413]

New rider, this helped tons. Usually ride on the days off and am slowly getting more away from the car scene and more towards the bike scene.

[@ringsting]

Mr life at lean, thank you for the video, but here is a question, when you say continuous tear is due to rebound and compression being out of line, does it mean that I need to add or take out from both compression and rebound...please can you you supply some more info,

[@dbtrackz33]

It usually happens from being to open

[@黃紹瑋-u1l]

Is the tire in the picture in 5:18 turn clockwise or counter-clockwise? And the arrow indicated back edge or leading edge? Thanks.

[@ryannoone]

Are there any forums where i could post pictures of my Tyre wear to get some feedback on what might be the cause or identify issues?

[@sicxdgixxd6326]

Just heard a different language that I don’t understand, how to find someone who knows is the problem

[@iannamico]

race tires and tire warmers.... best investment you can make (if everything else is set up correctly.)

[@banaana1234]

Good tires make all the difference even with shitty bikes.

[@rickyd2186]

Not really. Without tire warmers, you waste 2 laps every session getting heat in them. Thats a full session by the end of the day.

[@CarloPiana]

@Sunyata that's incorrect. As it has been explained, not only tear will send your tyre to the dump, but also heating cycles have a role. By using heaters, you preserve tyre considerably. My Brother has used his Pirelli Diablo for more than 2 years of track days and they still look very fit, not that shade of exhaust oil most amateurs carry home on average track day.

[@Nelis1992]

Very good information! Im a beginner track Day rider and didnt know this. Thanks!

[@Nelis1992]

@@coreyjameson2851 no nobody cares

[@michaeldk9]

Can you help me out with a Yamaha R6 2018 set up ?

[@Morty171]

New rider here. Are the tires still safe to use on the street with any of those tears?

[@motorcycle_croatia]

💪🏻🥇💪🏻🥇💪🏻🥇

[@ZeebNinja]

I am so lucky to have Dave Moss available to me. He has helped me with several of my bikes in ways no other tuner could possibly help. He is totally committed to helping all bike owners

[@jeffhdpd782]

man i wish i did...i might end up doing one of his remote tunes

[@winner1338]

What have you've learned from him? Maybe you can share this with us?

[@stan59152]

@@winner1338 go to his website and watch his videos. if you like it, highly highly recommend to pay for premium. I have learned so much

[@winner1338]

@@stan59152 ok, it'll be the first time i pay for something like this. But i'll do it.

[@motomigos]

Had a q3+ start to literally rip away. Any clues on what it could be? Chunks of rubber about 1 inch by 1 inch fell off and the tire started to tear away from it.

[@MikelJackielou]

Tips to not wear the tires 1. ride once a year 2. use your motorcycle only for photoshoot only

[@jnycee845]

I have a Michelin road 5 GT set on my FZ09. My tires on the edges turn blue.. Pretty often. Its On the edge of the tire. In between the 2nd & 1st to the rim of the rubber.. What does that mean?

[@emerikcalmels3971]

Men that is informative. And the info is complete. Not like some well known expert who cuts the video when it gets interesting and says : You wanna know? Pay for the full video... In short : many thanks, you avoided me some crashes for sure.

[@DmanGuitar327]

Will incorrect rear spring cause the back edge to be raised? I used a 6.3kg spring, when 9.4kg is the race recommended for me 5'8 175lbs?

[@saleenr6]

great video!

[@clauseickeschirm1467]

Everything in the Video sounds logic to me, now i guess i have a damping issue in the back of my bike. I hope i can fix it, thanks for the Information :)

[@650hpreventon]

Question about my front tire tread rised, which side is leading edge? Let's say I'm sitting on my bike, the edge towards me is leading edge? Anyways that side is rised, like pealing out almost 1/4 in forming a paper thin rubber. Both sides looks like orange skin, while center looks smooth, I guess because my front tire for enough heat and it really digging to the pavement ?

[@liamhotspur9182]

Cool!

[@patrickspapens5497]

Dave Moss Tuning on KZbin is easily the best way to learn about suspension and tire wear, I set up my entire suspension to near perfection by watching his videos

[@xinyuxue868]

I met Dave Moss personally at Thunderhill Raceway, he is perfect for what he do!

[@OskarKudla]

This is excellent video. Now how to fix the issue. Thanks for explaining.

[@WallowedOutStomata]

Dude you spell tire wrong in all of your tire videos.....

[@johnbrewer8954]

You must be American, only an American could criticise and English persons use of English with no sense. of irony at all. You no doubt claim to have English as your first language, which makes the whole world laugh. Tyre is the correct spelling

[@neopank]

Top video 👌👌👌

[@Dj_Caribe]

Very clear and to the point! Thank you!

[@trevorbagley7167]

Awesome video

[@davidciesielski8251]

Thanks a lot

[@ropro5402]

A great, highly informative video! Thanks!

[@DaytonaDays]

Pukka video, if you want to avoid the blueing of the tyre, do a cool down lap before you come in, wrap your tyres in their wamers whilst switched on. Once the warmers are up to full chat, switch them off and let everything cool down together. Significantly reduces the blueing effect 👍🏼

[@HypeRapEnjoyer]

I know this is an old video but the reason for higher tire pressure lowering tire temperature, is not because of the size of the contact patch. But because a higher pressure tire deforms less thus generating less heat.

[@deandee8082]

got that same deal at the brand new track in utah, miller, first bikes on it man she was green..

[@cachidril]

I heard that new riding technics consist on set a high pressure on the front wheel around 30psi and maybe 24 psi on the rear, what do you think about it, ? and what could be a good setting pressure?

[@kevind8571]

Tire*

[@maximepayeur404]

Thank you for the time and efforts you took explaining this 👌

[@nffrincekumar2053]

GODBLESS YOU ALL🙏 BEAUTIFUL SOULS💕 LOVE FROM ODISHA-DELHI 👍👌

[@nabacov]

Thanks for your generous & detailed delivery of this info..was rare to find

[@solmongrundy]

Mine facing raised edge in the rear tyre ,how do i prevent this from happening ?

[@jeffestrada6857]

Great information much appreciated 👍

[@philip5798]

Thanks for posting this video, keep up the good work!

[@AuMechanic]

Also comes down to rider style and the track surface and weather. And a slick on a 250 wont look the same as a slick on a 1000cc superbike. And you should be able to get a few race meetings out of a rear slick without any blue. If it's blue it's a bit "cooked" and might go off before it's wear life, raise pressure slightly should fix it.

[@RakeshKumar-fr5zc]

6 सालg huuĵnnnvccglkppo0uuuui9ijjjkoiio op on one day

[@christophertaylor6694]

Dan, can’t believe I’ve only just seen this one! So informative and answered so many of my tyre questions! Thanks so much 👍 top man 👌

[@janicesanderson3310]

I wonder who put thumbs down 🧐

[@mrfechu6281]

Well done. Subscribed.

[@mpraele]

Hey there! I would like to congrat you once more... this time for the way you explains things... very accessible and very clear! Man.. keep going.. the followers will be after you!.. increasing in numbers! Cheers from brazil!

[@LifeatLean]

Thanks Marcus!

[@ride4funnomg103]

Yay! My tyres are wearing correctly. Great video thanks!

[@lwcorvette]

Excellent video

[@King88_8]

.. On GP racers my cold tearing on especially cold days was fixed with a new shock..

[@jstrndm945]

Nope, it fixed with a new ecu. Lol #kidding

[@gustav901]

Wish I had settings on my suspension, always woundered which kind of problem I'm having but based on this I would say the rebound is too fast

[@LifeatLean]

Best advice would be to learn a bit more about suspension and figure things out, or use a suspension setup service to help fix your issue.

[@MarkosManiadakis]

Nice!!!

[@Elias-fm8ze]

Thanks!

[@TheGonta211v]

great guide

[@tomandras.282]

Great vid, info bang on!! Top lad

[@sharoncooke5213]

Great bite size video again. This will come in handy next time on track just had suspension set up so will see and understand more the changes with this info. 👍

[@LifeatLean]

Cheers Niall!

[@nickpa8871]

Outstanding job mate !

[@crsteixeira1865]

hello I recently changed my tires had a bridgestone battlax and changed to a pirelli diablo rosso corsa I always used bridgestone and they are very good but this pirelli diablo is a fantastic tire I can only agree with you only use my tires on the road not yet I had the opportunity to wear them on the road. They are very reliable. It looks like super glue.best regards

[@tylerjones8179]

Great guide, thank you!

[@seventysevencats]

I've been watching and reading the resources from Dave for many months (videos, articles and even that expensive app) but this video gives a nice summary of tyre wear and in a much clearer way. I've already subscribed but that video would be an instant click on the button. Instead, I'll share it to my friend to educate them and spark their interest for trackdays.

[@LifeatLean]

Thank you buddy! :)

[@samehsouissi6986]

I just watched a video of Dave saying leading edge rebound means rebound is too fast? I'm very confused now

[@unathandavis]

Why doesnt this happen to tires on the street?

[@lifeisgood070]

Because you didn't ride them hard enough - which is probably a good thing as accidents have more collateral damage for both you and others on the street. Aka low side at 60mph and you could hit a patch of grass that catches and snaps your ankle - a much less likely scenario on a track where you can just slide it out. I've gotten most of these on the street: hot tear, cold tear, and the feathers on the rear of a water channel from used fork oil. But does that make me a good rider? arguably not - perhaps I'm not using the right head position and thus leaning the bike over too much, perhaps street rossi'ing it, perhaps wrong tire pressure, etc. Also most of these you can't get on the street unless the road temp is greater than 55F. And you probably can't get them unless it's greater than 75-80f without a perpendicular bias carcus construction like on a racing slick or Michelin RS / similar. If you absolutely must do this on the street I suggest a parking lot first or Ride a twisty road at 50% effort for a couple miles. Then do a few max braking stops from like 80-20mph to get heat in the front. Do a few pulls from 15mph to 85mph to get heat in the rear. After that, you should be relatively safe to lean pretty hard on most road tires. Besides why would you want this on the street - just means the tire wears out faster. Most times I have to pay around $250 (front+rear) + $75 (balance / fees) for a set of tires. It's like $400.... a couple times a season? So much for 55mpg savings. Here is my last tire 2 weeks ago (will delete link eventually): -linked deleted- You can see the feathers on the rear tread due to worn shock oil. You can see the left side is bald because you have more visibility in left corners so you can lean with a significant factor of safety. The right side is ridden to the edge but doesn't have as many miles because I currently do not have an ability to do full lean on my right and also stop midturn. There is no cold or hot tears because the last 100mi of that tire was in the rain, which surprisingly grips very well bald as long as it's hot. All of that should scream stupidity to you. Don't do it.

[@cachidril]

do you have any video about geometry? when to adjust the front fork height?

[@LifeatLean]

Won't be jumping into chassis setup yet buddy. Dave Moss is your man for that.

[@cachidril]

Life at Lean thank you

[@matthewmosca3984]

Wouldn’t centrifugal force cause the melted rubber to move towards the outside of the tire? That’s why there are small collections of rubber balls on the outside. I am not exactly sure why the rubber trails arc in that way.

[@LifeatLean]

My understanding is that rubber balls are something different, and are the result of rubber collecting together on the edge of the tyre while at higher lean angles (and remaining there). As the bike stands up, the rubber that's melted away farther up the tyre will want to move directly away from it (due to CF), but because the rubber is sticky it moves up the slope of the tyre into the middle. Also it will move backward because the tyre is spinning forward. I don't know if this is what is actually happening, but thinking logically that's why I would say it arcs like that into the centre of the tyre.

[@daytona765]

It’s spinning around the axle axis, so force will drive it to the greatest distance from the axle which is the inside where it’s tallest, even ifyou were to spin it as if you’re trying to spin a set of tire (unmounted off bike) on the ground with your hands, it would still go to the inside because it’s furthest away from top and down axis.

[@LifeatLean]

Thanks John. That's what I was going for but you've just put it better.

[@atobpilot]

Again, brilliant!

[@lifeisgood070]

When you remake this video can you also explain what each scenario feels like on a bike? For instance hot tear feels like riding on a smooth wax. The tire isn't sticking, but it isn't sliding - it's surfing. Cold tear feels like massive gip then a chunk or medium sized twist slap - like someone slapped the swing arm 0.1-1mm. Sometimes when you're on the bike if you don't know the feeling you can ruin a set of tires in a few miles.

[@raschellesherwood6347]

Best explanation on a very contraversal topic... and in my experience as a female racer. And the fact that my hubby is my suspension guru lol. That is exactly how he taught me and has givin me great success thank you for this awesome video

[@ringsting]

Bud still waiting on your reply about rebound and compression

[@The124cbr]

Your info on "cold tear" and "hot tear" is just so wrong... Put simply, if a tyre that was over inflated was one the would become too cold, simple physics would tell us that it would drop in pressure. With this, according to you, you would then start to generate heat, and the pressure would increase again. You'd have a tyre that found its own equilibrium, and that would be amazing, but it doesn't happen. Similarly, if an underinflated tyre generated heat, its pressure would rise, and it'd solve its own problems. Things just don't work this way. An over inflated tyre will get hot, and the pressure will increase, and it'll get hotter, and the pressure will increase, and so on, until it reaches a point at which it begins to lose grip, less energy can be transferred into the tyre, and things level off, being too hot, and over inflated. At the very extreme end of things, you will not have the grip due to poor pressures, and yes, the tyre may cool, but it is spp far from the operating window it's irrelevant. A lower tyre pressure will cope with the heat better, as the work load is spread across a larger part of the tyre. Typically, as a rider increases pace, they will need to look at how to dissipate this extra energy being put into the tyre. If a rider is too slow with a lower pressure, they will feel uncomfortable with the movement, and simply won't be working the tyre hard enough to maintain the heat. You have to go very low in pressures to cause heat generation issues, at which point you'll likely blister the tyre, but again, it's a long way out of the normal pressure range. It is however why SBK/GP have mandated minimum pressures. ultimate grip can be found here, but it is tortuous to the tyres, and often leads to failures.

[@JPRacing715]

Aaiden Coote actually his info is correct. What you are missing is tires operate optimally at a certain temperature. You are trying to get the tires to this temperature via psi. What is meant by a cold tear is the tire is not gaining enough temperature to operate effectively. And same as hot tear is the tire is going past the optimum temperature. What you mainly want to do is gain roughly 5 to 7lbs from cold temp to hot temp. This is the optimum setting to get to the tires operating temp. If you tire is not gaining enough psi it isn’t gaining enough temp to operate effectively which in turn causes the rubber to tear when you provide a load by HP to the rear or turning forces for the front. On the opposite side if the tire is gaining to much psi it means it is over heating last the optimum temp and then the rubber is in lament terms greasy, meaning when you apply a load the rubber is basically smearing off the carcass. A lower pressure can not handle the heat better, it’s basic tire physics. You do not want to spread the load over a larger patch, too large of a contact patch will push the tire way past its operating temperature and will lead to a crash.

[@The124cbr]

yeah, nah... how cold is it before you started? There is absolutely no point in concerning yourself with how much pressure your tyre gains from cold. it is literally the least useful info you could obtain. This is why we use tyre warmers, to get rid of as much gain in temp/pressure as possible. oh... as for a larger patch generating heat? rub your hands together as hard as you can. it gets warm. rub your thumb into your palm as hard as you can and you'll get a blister... it's the same thing.

[@JPRacing715]

Aaiden Coote yeah so the Race tire vendors who say the same thing are wrong? The WSBK Pirelli race vendor saying the same thing is making it up? While it’s cute you are so confident but sorry I will trust the experts over an internet expert. Come to a professional race, go talk to the true experts and they will give you a world of good advice.

[@The124cbr]

+JPRacing715 saying what? you've lost me. I've been competitively racing nationally for a few years now, and have dealt with national suppliers quite personally. Our first round of each year is at the Phillip Island round of the WSBK championship where International Pirelli techs watch our classes to keep an eye on things, and we'd be being told very clearly if we were misusing their products. Add to that, I've had support of someone over the last two years who has run a team in WSS, and has forgotten more than you or I will ever know, and I can assure you, what I've learned about tyres seems to correlate quite well with the Data he has accrued over the years.

[@WozzasSportsCruiserRides]

So the balls of rubber that happen on the outside edge of my tyre aren't a bad thing on track days? There s21r street tyres on a MT-10. The suspension seems to be fine and I did run lower air pressure on track.

[@LifeatLean]

From my understanding the balls are simply the rubber wearing away as it should and collecting on the edge. Having said that if you have a lot of big balls then the tyre could be getting a little too hot, but if the rest of the tyre looks ok then you're probably in a decent pressure window.

[@Anhjje]

DO NOT under inflate tires without NTEC technology, please don't do it - you WILL ruin the tire or worst case scenario, crash! Only tires with NTEC technology (Dunlop's D211/D212 and similar) are road/track tires that allow lower pressures and perform better in track conditions. The S21 carcass is not built with that technology. I've raced the S21 plenty of times and depending on the track layout/length you can use it for a few laps before it overheats. However, lowering the pressure to "track" levels (2.2 front, 0.8 back) will definitely ruin the carcass and it won't act "properly" in turns.

[@WozzasSportsCruiserRides]

Yes Mate, The S21r I've got I had about 20psi

[@JPRacing715]

Anhjje the reason Dunlop race tires can run that low is they have what they call zero growth, meaning the pressure from the warmers is not much different than pressures off the track. Dunlop 211’s and so on are a full on race tire while the S21 is a street hybrid mainly used on the street with some track days in there as well

[@JPRacing715]

Wozza's Sports Cruiser Rides the S21 is a street hybrid tire, it is NOT a race tire. It has no race compound in them. You do not want to run them at race tire pressures of 21psi. Start at 29psi cold and judge from there, what you are looking for is about a 5 to 7lb difference from cold to hot.

[@Pal.Cockrum]

Great video explaining cause and effect plus possible remedies. Saved for future reference, keep it up.