Contact Patch: Reading Motorcycle Street Tires (TRAILER)

[@markbrinkerhoff9155]

Dave Moss, the bike whisperer.

[@sergedagher]

your opening sentence was like a eureka moment for me; i started out on pirelli tyres (came stock on my 2015 Street Triple R) and a lot of times i found myself surprised with the rear stepping out without warning while the front felt like a sponge. Moved onto Dunlop Q3 and man my confidence in the bike was restored... i instantly felt confident on the track to drive through the turns, it just took me 2 sessions at first to get over the fact that i shouldn't over analyze bike reaction in some turns because i was comparing it to when i rode on pirelli and back then it gave minimum road information feedback ...

[@SUPERMOTOJAK]

Same here. I bought a 2014 last fall that has Pirellis on it and it'll kick out suddenly every so often when I'm in a slight turn and hard on throttle. Makes me weary getting on it when in tight turns. When these tires are done I'm definitely trying some Dunlops.

[@jacob-tl3is]

Q3s are amazing, the battlax s21 are bad ass also from Bridgestone.

[@HelloJamesBond]

Very interesting and something I’ve never thought of. I have. 2016 street R with Pirelli Rosso corsas. Always thought they had a lack of feel but did perform well. Only thing is due to lack of feel you don’t know when they’re gonna let go and always edgy about that when pushing. Think I will try the Dunlop’s or maybe Bridgestone tyres. Maybe something inbeween would be good. Cheers Dave

[@jacob-tl3is]

JamchesterBoozle I know what you mean and like you said if you like to push hard sometimes you definitely want that feel and feedback from the tires. I’ve never tried pirellis but for sure man if you like to push hard q3s is the way to go. I’ve always like the s21 tires because I feel like they are a little taller and they dip into the corners real quick. And once they get warm they are like glue I had no problems with them when dry or wet conditions. But ya brother I would definitely roll with the q3s or s21. You can’t go wrong with either. Ride safe brother

[@sergedagher]

I've tried the s21's on my previous bike, cbr600rr. They're great and exactly how Jacob described them but i would add personally i felt that they give no warning when you reach the limit of lean angle, and you reach there very quickly with their drop into the corner snappy response. I don't know if i would change my mind about them now because i had them 5 years ago and back then my riding skills for the track were not great. After the s21 i went for continental sportattack 2, great tyre, but now that I've tried dunlop i am happy with it.

[@kylesmith2951]

Everyone always flatly says soft or hard for objective performance. Turning the objective “best” into a subjective “best” with the ADD brain thing was *chef’s kiss*. This is top tier coaching.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thank you!

[@Bikeadelic]

“They’re bald” “Really?” Oh dear haha

[@CapitalCreators]

A "good" friend gave him those bahahaha

[@darren1166]

😂😂😂... Please take away the bike from that guy

[@Bikeadelic]

Darren yeah or a little education haha

[@Snakes709]

I wonder how much he paid for bald take off’s

[@ixifutureproof9286]

@@Snakes709 Mates Rates

[@thevideogamer0mg99]

when the title said "street tires" i didnt assume hypersport street tires in track use

[@ridermachines3279]

I subscribed. you my uncle now.

[@OldestYoungenInGuidePost]

Rider Machines So that now makes me you're cousin 🤷🏻‍♂️🤔🤣🤣🤣👍🏼

[@ridermachines3279]

@@OldestYoungenInGuidePost hahah... Eyy cousin. 😂

[@nickb9563]

Lmao that last guy My "college job" was working part time at a cyclegear, and the amount of people who would come in with bald tires looking for a warranty was astounding That and the people who would pull in with a full 360 loop of wires showing on their tires saying that I was trying to scam them suggesting they get new tires

[@Richard-dh8ny]

Thanks for the excellent video Dave! When comparing soft vs hard tires is it safe to assume that the hard tire will always offer higher mileage when every other variable is equal?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thank you for watching and your kind words. Yes, that would be a safe assumption in theory.

[@2leatheru]

I believe in learning from the experts. You are certainly one of them. You do wonderful very informative videos ,My question is, if I have my tires dialed in and then I go two up with the same person is there a formula or do I have to redo that whole system which I'm willing to do because my life and certainly being responsible for my passenger is Paramount. Yet another factor, I pull a timeout pop-up tent camper sometime solo sometimes two up, with all that do I do all the steps that you showed for each one of these scenarios or is there some kind of a formula by adding weight or something?

[@maximilliancunningham6091]

Where do Michelins fit in ? I had one, rear, R1, loved it..

[@catalystreactionsbw]

I have a set of the latest Power 6's and love them. Soft carcass so I run 36 cold as a minimum.

[@TBagr]

“They’re bald” That’s what the fool gets for taking someone’s take offs. I wish Dave was near me.

[@ginoasci]

i have a new XC…..the ride is always bumpy. new paved roads are bumpy. old paved roads are bumpy. the ride is always bumpy. my bike is a 2022, which i bought this week in june of 2023. considering it’s a left over i’m thinking it has been sitting in the showroom for a long time and one or both tires have a flat spot. as that flat spot hits the ground on every revolution, it will feel bumpy. i could be wrong but that’s the only thing i can come up with. unless the suspension needs tuning. even if the suspension needs tuning the ride should be smooth of pavement, especially a newly paved road. this is why i think it’s flat spots on the tires. your thoughts ?

[@cduartebr]

Great info, thanks for the upload Dave! When you say Pirellis, do you mean all Pirelli tires in comparison to other manufacturers? For example, the Diablo Supercorsa SC is quite soft (intended for track use) while the SP has a stiffer carcass meant for street/sport applications. I have a SP V3 on my 22´ Street Triple RS, I´m always amazed by how much grip there is and how it transmits the road imperfections while soaking everything up and maintain grip. So I wonder if this lack of feedback is something only from the road-oriented Pirelli tires, or the track-oriented SP and SCs also present this characteristic.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thanks for your question. Carcass differs between models and versions. The V3 iteration is slightly stiffer and there is a current trend where the rear is staying softer for a bigger contact patch on acceleration than the front for much better breaking stability.

[@russellstokke6888]

You said Dunlop have a stiff carcass but then said the GPR-300 have a soft carcass (3:02) -- is this because the GPR -300 is aimed at low power / beginner friendly bikes? edit: never mind! I watched some other videos and the question is addressed

[@tlalexander3]

what is the answer to this? I have these tires on my R3 I just bought

[@russellstokke6888]

@@tlalexander3 I am certainly not an expert, but I'd say the GPR300 have a soft carcass and sidewalk. This is on 110F and 140/150R, which is smaller bikes without big weight and big power, so they don't have the same amount of energy necessary to flex a stiff carcass. I think those tires are fine for what they are. No need to take them off early, but they'll only last around 4k mi. They're pretty good value, honestly, but I also think tires are one thing to consider spending a little more money on.

[@1683clifton]

Opening impression, hard vs soft. I was falling asleep driving my minivan. The amount of joy and information flooding my brain on the bike. It's cause I got the dunlops? What?!! Mt03 cones with dunlops at 45 ish in the rear 33up front. It's not the fast boy. But I am so happy to ride that and feel everything, the tires the wind. Checking my mirrors blindspots. The whole thing is educational and alive. 🐢🐢🐢mt03

[@1683clifton]

And for the consistent questioner.. It does about 90 irl feels fast. Naked turtle mode. 5k sofar

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Great post and thank you for sharing why you ride and how alive you feel!

[@canalealeable]

I didn't understand: when a tire "eats" the front angle, is it a problem of carcass or softness extension brake of the shock absorber? They reach me it's the second: because to avoid softness problems of carcass, we could just pump them a bit more

[@catalystreactionsbw]

It is a problem with the rear suspension not being set correctly and with very old oil.

[@canalealeable]

@@catalystreactionsbw thanks, I supposed it was a too hard spring respect the hardness of the shock absorber (most of all in extension)

[@justaguy4real]

About how much contact patch is needed for bike to stick in corners and leaned over? I'm still unsure of my lean angles and cornering speeds possible. I feel like I need to have as big a patch as possible, but then that would be lower tire pressure, and opposing what you say about having a preferred higher pressure to keep patches smaller in lengthen the life, which all contradicts my paranoia. I'm thinking a4" patch would be great but higher pressure make it smaller, and also considering the softness/stickiness of the rubber. No doubt a track day would do me some good, but I can't ever get out there. Besides the fact of my questions of certain pavement types like the rocky surface stuff of most old black tops that get really slippery, esp when wet.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thanks for your question. Patch is a correlation to speed. The faster you go the more the tire flexes and the bigger to contact patch. Speed and lean are conjoined twins so you cannot have lean without speed. Pressure is a balance between ability, suspension and settings matched to road temps. Summer pressures are generally higher, Winter pressures generally lower. You may find these videos helpful: kzbin.infosearch?query=pressure

[@justaguy4real]

@@catalystreactionsbw great, thank you. so on any dry paved road surface I dont need to be concerned about wheels [esp front wheel] sliding out from under me like it would on a dirt or gravel patch? as said, my faith in the tire grip from lean and speed isn't very good yet. maybe I'm over thinking it.

[@Max-yy3lz]

Follow another rider, in best case one you know is a good rider. When he makes a corner and you follow with same speed you'll see whats possible. You don't need to be a tire expert to ride. But of course your bike (suspension, tires, etc.) need to be in good condition.

[@justaguy4real]

@@Max-yy3lz i totally agree with that concept and actually do practice that, BUT many I follow are really cautious and slow around curves. But none push it anywhere near limits, nor ever follow anyone in rain on those slippery black top road surface with the smooth faces of rocks used as filler which are the slippery ones. All else are pretty comfortable, and I'm able to push it gradually more n more. But thx for that.

[@yng_mali5714]

Godamm, in detail by details. PERFECTION. 😦

[@uses0ap]

Hi Dave, What are your thoughts on mixing tire brand/models front & rear?

[@HelloJamesBond]

uses0ap not an expert by any means. But I can confidently say it’s a bad idea. Why would you do that?

[@mr_sowong9464]

@@HelloJamesBond if you want to change tire brand so you start on the rear because the front is still in good condition??

[@HelloJamesBond]

DaytimeRider if i was changing brands I’d do them both at the same time. No way would I mix and match!

[@mr_sowong9464]

@@HelloJamesBond i am a cheap bastard. what do you do with the front then?

[@abyssmanur3965]

I wouldnt sweat too much on it when theres riders getting around with car tyres on the back Lmao

[@vr___46]

Nice hair dude 😂😂you should have seen my first expression when I saw you 🤣🤣🤣

[@RTK171]

Whays the best track day Tyre for a R6 want lots of feed back and nice turn under brakes any ideas??

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Dunlop or Bridgestone. 180/60 rear works best IMHO

[@taznivolare1896]

So dave , , i have a fully adapted ( Brake s , suspensoin , motor , clutch ) Suzuki Sv 650 2005 , they run stock 160 in de Back , i can converse them to an 180 Bud would i bennefit from that , what do you think are the pro s and contra s , thanks en greeting s from Belgium

[@catalystreactionsbw]

180 needs a 5.5" wheel so unless that change is made, the handling will not be as good as stock.

[@stinkerdoodle1737]

So Dave I under stand the information a stiff vs a soft carcass tire will give you but I was wondering if a tire carcass is stiff and one were to be riding a bike that is more flexible like a ninja 300 or a Katana 600 vs RC51 or R1 ect would using a softer carcass be better as the harder tire would send more feed back into the bike / frame causing flex or dose the carcass stiffness not have a big influence on the chassis and frame flex when the bike is being pushed hard like at the track or canyon riding? Good video thanks for all the info.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

The carcass does not have a profound influence on frame flex - the level of grip te tire produces does have a profound effect. So, when setting up smaller bikes like 300's if the bike gets good grip then the frame/swing arm/forks will flex. In most modern motorcycle, that is engineered into the bike as tuned flex and even modern 300/400cc bikes have that integrated into their design due to the success of track days.

[@stinkerdoodle1737]

@@catalystreactionsbw Great info as always thanks.

[@happydays1165]

This man knows he’s stuff

[@mr_sowong9464]

His*

[@m.b.82]

Was he always stuff or is this recent? At least he knows it though.

[@hudsonkiyonaga]

3:23 YamahaAH

[@guillesanchez8816]

what's up with grandpa's Joker hair??

[@GreenMntMoto]

Cooking crystal - ripping rockets 🚀

[@Pstaines439]

Lost a bet I reckon.

[@zealobiron]

I really want a ktm rc8r or a yam r6. A lot of highway riding nothing super high speed. Goals are to find reliable acceleration and decel as a daily driver. I weigh about 170, live in ohio. Would say temp range is 70 to 90 for riding weather. Moving from dirt bikes to the street. Any recommendations for a good starter tire and pressure? Would be great to have your insight.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

R6 would be better for your weight with any Hypersport Brand tire starting at 34/34 cold

[@zealobiron]

@@catalystreactionsbw thank you very much! Any chance you have a few minutes to chime in on why not the ktm? I love both brands dirtbikes. Apples and oranges I know. Those rc8's just look great and I like that there aren't many around here

[@zealobiron]

Guess I'm kind of like Johnny 5, need more input! Hahaha. Would really love some of those 80s 2 stroke Superbikes as well! RZ, NSR, GRV. Would love to have ride around with a group of two stroke rockets! Keep the modern bikes for more daily drivers

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@zealobiron Rc8R suspension is very harsh at your weight. 200+ it would work. If you can pay for the revalve front and rear by all means get one.

[@zealobiron]

@@catalystreactionsbw I can revalve it I think. I've done it on dirtbikes at least. I was taught to some a degree, a fork is a fork is a fork is a fork. Building shim stacks is like therapy for me. Lol. Just need to do it more! Thank you so much for replying!

[@CapitalCreators]

How good is Dave at riding?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

On a race track or on the street?

[@Ody7seas]

@@catalystreactionsbw on the race track

[@thanxx]

man knows his shit

[@trwilliams22]

That last tire! BAHAHA

Dude, there's a reason they're take-offs.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Dave Williams, editor, replying here. All new tires are created equal. All take-offs are not. I get practice session take-offs from the US MotoAmerica series teams because they have 6 to 8 laps on them (one session). Race take-offs are too worn out. Sometimes I can get good club racer take-offs because some club racers have the money for new tires every session. That Michelin, while not a pro race take-off, was equivalently pro race worn out. I have used Moss' club race take-off's. He wins so much that he gets plenty of free tires. He uses a new set for each race and the races are only 6-8 laps long. Plus he races low horsepower bikes which are easier on the tire. Again, that Michelin was too far gone.

[@enoz.j3506]

Someones been to close ,to a shreks rear blast.

[@gerrywhelan5761]

Expert: "Your tires are bald" Rider: "Really" what the "F"! How in hell can a bike rider miss that, like if it was a car driver I wouldn't be overly surprised, but a bike rider!🤔.

[@thakery5720]

Back in the day (1970's) the only companies fitting Pirellis were Italian, and they were soft shit that was easily worn out and they were dreadful in the rain. Dunlops were better but wore out quick.... then Avon introduced the Roadrunner, I have yet to find a better tyre maker for the English road and climate conditions.......

[@ixifutureproof9286]

Michelin Pilot roads. I used to ride Avons and loved them. I agree, for a long time they were better than any other. Grip, feedback and especially wear. However Michelin have switched their tyre compound to a winter base and wet grip is outstanding.

[@thakery5720]

@@ixifutureproof9286 What bik is it you ride ? I am now a Harley person and a lot of tyres for 'normal' bikes aren't up to the torque (and weight !) of a Harley........

[@rgthomson100]

Ive got to run them in lol, nothing left they are bald lmao

[@thecrone8578]

lonnngggeeerrr vids budd :)

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Go to playlist Full Freemium videos

[@pnwtree]

dude sick hair!

[@colinbrown9564]

I’ll take my transcripts is concerned I’ll cancel it you just give short vids

[@svh93]

damn, what's up with the haircut

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Williams, replying here. One of my granddaughters is in cosmetology school. Grandpa guinea pig.

[@svh93]

Dave Moss Tuning hahaha that’s amazing. Best grandpa in the world

[@raynic1173]

@@catalystreactionsbw can't wait for the 'make up' classes!

[@garethprice2245]

not Questioning your job but let us see some vids of you riding a bike on a track and times 😉

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Dave Williams, editor, replying here. Moss is on the road for the next 5 hours so I'll brag for him. He's turned 1:54's on his 450 Cripple Triple (600 with a dead cylinder, about 70+ bhp) at Thunderhill and Buttonwillow in CA where the SBK lap records are 1:44 ish. He raced 250 2-Strokes in the AMA 250GP Championship back in the day. Here are some AFM 450 races from a couple of years ago. kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5TYZnqJjbtgors kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWWviqKhbs6rna8

[@catalystreactionsbw]

I have many class championships over a decade with the AFM, the oldest and most competitive club in the US. The ability to win does not necessarily relate to lap times :). Race craft can bring you a win.

[@jcrew6657]

Looks like someone lost a bet!

[@troyw6734]

Not really your friend is what he means

[@ybliga]

I can’t listen to all this flannel without conjuring up an image of Jimmy Swaggart in my mind - sounds like total snake oil to me 😂

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Let's see if you change your mind with part 2.

[@norseman5041]

I un-subscribed (i am still subscribed). Why ? I am looking for a bit of help to adjust those dame shocks, and all this is a waste of time, just before ''eureka'' the and stop his videos. - Dave actually took contact, what a guy. Have actually been a subscriber for years. How he read the bikes are beyond me.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

There are a shed load of 2 Clicks Out videos that teach you exactly what you need. Get to work.

[@norseman5041]

@@catalystreactionsbw haha, you actually read these. LOL. Been working on this for much longer than I usually need for anything. But never seem to get it right. Bike balanced, all measurements are taken. I set the rebound and compression as per makers weight reference, but this is not correct. So I go little by little outside of these settings. Either the front wobble out of the turn with the rear wheel is chattering. Looking at you just make it more frustrating, you do this in 2 minutes and the bike is perfect.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@norseman5041 What bike? How many miles/kms on the odometer? What brand, model and sizes of tires? What cold pressures? What is your weight without gear? How aggressive are you with the bike? Where are the issues - going in, mid corner or exit? There are lots of questions, all need answers. The quickest path for clarity and direction is via tire wear and the Contact Patch playlist as tires cannot lie.

[@norseman5041]

@@catalystreactionsbw I have two one EBR 1190RX and the one I work with now the 09 Buell XB12Scg, 22500 miles, New fork oil Bel Ray 5w, Pirelli Diablo 120/70 and 180/55 ZR17 Front 29-31 ibs and rear 24-25 ibs. Temperature her in OH swing a lot and I ride all year, so i keep adjusting the tire pressure. This bike is not on the track. I weigh 87 kg. It look like she is plowing in the turn, since the ware is on each side of the center. Also I have a rebound issue as i get the ''U'' pattern on the sides. I tried to ease off the weight on the front by reducing the preload on the rear. The bike seem to be better balanced now. ''Push down test'' However the front forks travel nearly all the way down, leaving only about 19mm before hitting the bottom. The forks sag 6 mm without me on it ''static sag'' + 6 mm more when I get on totaling 12 mm. I believe mid corners have me the most at unease. I feel I can not trust the front. I put on a new set of tires, will take her out when the weather get warmer. Been very cold and it probably had effect on the oil.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@norseman5041 Send me pictures of the tires to [e-mail]

[@stevewill3572]

Moss fucked up having the green haired dude run his account. He could have been more successful

[@catalystreactionsbw]

I still plan on getting back to videos once once I get the upper hand on my cancer battle.

[@GladImnotU69]

When adjusting suspension do you take rider body weight in consideration?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

1. Rider weight is the primary consideration. 2. Oil age in the forks and shock is a secondary consideration for damping. 3. Geometry is the last of the Trinity for evaluation.