Can You Get 1000 HP with a Mechanical Fuel Pump & Tunnel Ramp? | Engine Masters

Is there anything better than hitting 1000 HP in your Model A Drag Car?! This time Freiburger, Dulcich & Brule test everything that will be used in David Freiburger's Model A drag car!
#motortrend #enginemasters
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[@fsj197811]

I grew up reading hot rod and car craft in the 80s and would have sworn that back then the tunnel ram was the high RPM manifold. Live and learn. Thanks for sharing!

[@noncog1]

Longer runners means takes longer for resonances to get back to the valve, which means needs more time in between strokes, so lower rpm. Now, there is a case to be made for the intake direction matching the port direction and the intakes having big cross sections most of the time, which can pick up power everywhere if the heads and cams support it.

[@anthonyrowland9072]

@@noncog1 short runners with big volume to length ratios were still kinda new back then. there's dozens of super victor type manifolds now, companies that make sheet metal deals, etc. for the regular guy in 1983 you could get like a tarantula or strip dominator but tunnel rams were everywhere if you wanted a little more to a point.

[@noncog1]

@anthonyrowland9072 that's kinda what I was saying, the tunnel rams were the big cross section intakes back then. Even if they were long, they still were the big boys as far as cross section went.

[@bobgyetvai9444]

Lol bought the bs did ya !!! Theyre Torque Boxs bro !!! Stood up cross rams .!!! And once you find the right plenum for your combo NOTHING OUT TORQUES THEM !!! HP is a mathematical formula TORQUE IS MEASURED . The exhaust side tunes the torque curve , i.e. VE , up or down opposite of intake runners length . Tune them apart !!!

[@seanb250]

Rear gear it to suit the rpm range, change the converter stall speed. Having all that power at lower rpm is all winning for the longevity of that engine.

[@williamstamper442]

In my opinion a header pan evacuation system does add power, they certainly help with ring seal. First time i tried this system it was shocking to pull a breather off at an 1100 rpm idle and stick it to your hand...the vacuum stuck so hard you had to twist the breather to get to come loose from my palm. Didnt think it would have pulled that much vac

[@johnbehneman1546]

I AGREE WITH YOU 100% DAVID. I LOVE SIMPLICITY!!!! IN EVERYTHING!!!!

[@johnbehneman1546]

I LOVE THE SIMPLE AND BASIC LIFESTYLE. THAT LEAVES MORE TIME AND MONEY FOR THE THINGS I REALLY LOVE.

[@johnbehneman1546]

I AGREE WITH YOU DAVID. I LOVE BLOWERS AND TUNNEL RAMS AS WELL!!!! THEY JUST LOOK BADASS ON ANY CAR!!! OR TRUCK!!!!

[@bigboreracing356]

If you like a tunnel rams with custom fabricated carburetor linkages made with $20 worth of material from Lowes then I have a very bad video just for you.

[@TomSmith-cv8hk]

Love the fact you're going with mech pump, how did it go ?

[@Daedje]

Not doing that final test was a frustrating end.

[@EdirtySicks]

Just missed the mark

[@steveskouson9620]

David, air pressure at sea level, is also 14/7 PSIA, steve

[@johnbehneman1546]

I. LOVE THE 502 RAM JECT CHEVY MOTOR!!!! BEAUTIFUL AND BADASS!!!!

[@lazyhoundracing9621]

Awesome. Now it's time to start polishing.

[@wordreet]

Tunnel ramp? Tunnel ram perhaps?

[@CsPri3st]

i wish we could see motortrend in sweden again

[@the.unhappy.mechanic]

I'd tig weld a couple of China walls together a d to the block, on each end and only use the 1 China wall gasket's.gaskets. or if you have access to a cnc machine make the the right hight from the start and then tig weld them to the block.

[@Nitrohog2006]

Did I miss where they checked if the fuel pressure was okay with the mechanical pump?

[@vintagetractorsaustralia]

This is an edited down version of the video. The full version is on motor trend

[@Nitrohog2006]

@@vintagetractorsaustralia gotcha, I'm not making the mistake of subscribing to that again!

[@craigchiddo2794]

They gave you just the tip

[@1one3_Racing]

​​@@Nitrohog2006I'd love to be able to, but not allowed outside the US. Mind you, no Dirt Every Day, no Racing Line, no Mike Finnegan and Steve being really sick, there's probably not a lot of content left on there.

[@giggiddy]

​@@1one3_RacingWhich Steve is sick? Whats wrong?

[@everydayirace]

So did mechanical fp work?

[@erscustoms911]

Agreed on simple and tall intake

[@brianeffler7835]

If the cam is matched to compression and head flow it will work best with two 1350 dominators.

[@nyftn]

difficult to explain how much i like watching you guys try all sorts of things ; it's a bit like top gear (grand tour) but about engines .

[@oby-1607]

In the good ol days, I ran a tunnel ram, topped with Holleys and a couple of velociy stacks on top. This was breathing thru a 292 solid lifter cam, forged pistons and rods. It took me a while to dial everything in but once this was overcome, it would slide the rear at almost any speed and the powershifts were unreal. I still get asked if I have the car but I met a girl and that was the end of that.

[@JesusSparacino]

Holley makes a few mechanical fuel pumps that will support 1000hp

[@joe-hp4nk]

No problem, just order a 1,000 HP 632 crate from GM and bolt it in, Bob's your uncle.

[@scotthultin7769]

Hills School you've actually got to change them once a year because Wednesday the heat cycle the few times and roasted over the winter they won't work in here in the next summer again

[@kellywoodworth310]

Love that big engine ❤

[@TheRocco28]

It would be interesting to see what this engine would run at Bonneville in the Camaro.

[@TheBDD1970]

So jealous! Wish I had a spare 18 k for a short block. Just gear it for the curve you have. Let that torque work.....

[@boingkster]

Work with what you got! I've done a stock bore/stroke 302, re-bearinged and re-ringed with a mechanical flat-tappet cam and GT40P heads with a decent home-port and some new valves. Should make in the neighborhood of 400hp naturally aspirated and be a really nice street engine in a light, fun car. Cost me less than 20% of the block price of that engine, too.

[@PresidentSkroob12345]

TUNNEL RAMP!!

[@andersbrannstrom1221]

Ah, sad that you did'nt put hoses from the breathers to the oneway valves. I ran a vaccupan kit in the 90's was told it gained hp's and kept the engine dry. Would have been interesting to see what the dyno said about it.

[@anthonyrowland9072]

put a little less gear and converter in it and use the extra tq and be in the right rpm. e85 works great on engines with the dynamic compression to take advantage of it too. stock 12:1 coyotes love it at 7800rpm

[@basketballcory2]

Currently building a na 1000hp engine

[@t0mn8r35]

Enginemasters is the most interesting series.

[@larryw5429]

So where does it say its on the mechanical fuel pump?

[@Michael_Bradburn]

Power comes down to ratios, Intake verses exhaust runner length and width. Your primaries are simply to short. Same type of falloff happens with shorty headers. Just needs more primary length before the collector.

[@noncog1]

I feel like, with the stronger mid range and higher peak power, the tunnel ram would still be faster, just shift a little sooner and run slightly longer gearing. Higher peak power alone doesn't make a car faster, but high power and torque? If you're not faster with that you're not using your powerband well.

[@hughmongous5089]

It's not so much about where peak power is located, it's more about having the power curve stay flat and roll over gently past peak power because you don't shift right at peak power, you would shift at like 400 rpm past peak power.

[@noncog1]

@hughmongous5089 what matters is area under the curve and amplitude of the curve. You can always just shift sooner.

[@hughmongous5089]

@@noncog1 thing is for a racing application it's favorable to have around 400 rpm of a flat power curve past peak power so that you can use the rpm range where the curve is near peak power, hits peak power and then stays flat afterwards. Again just to reiterate this is more about the shape of the curve itself, not where in the rpm range peak power is located.

[@user-zd9ex2bn7q]

Trams most always increase mid range torque. I definitely would check the port alignment you can lose 50 HP if it's way off. I believe the tram would be faster

[@bigboreracing356]

Check out the $20 tunnel ram linkage I fabricated for the Big Block Foxbody.

[@danielferguson6135]

Area under the curve wins every time

[@darrinnoble]

Sweet looking headers.

[@user-vy2co6kk1x]

Boa tarde carros this 1963 Chevy c-10 proves Second time s a charm, this 1955 210 wagon is no exception trabalho c-10 era red kap camiseta n tamanho GG bom

[@robking9857]

Just one more example of the right build for the right application. Tunnel Ram for high torque hot street/strip applications under 6,000 RPM is an appropriate choice. Screaming 7,000+ RPM race engines it is not the best choice in "most" cases. Even Pro-Stock cars using dual carbs were on short runner sheet metal intakes.

[@user-dx2cj4rs6d]

YOU SHOULD HAVE TRIED ...ISOLATED RUNNER......THE PLENUM MAY HAVE KILLED YOUR VACUUM SIGNAL......ITS WORTH A TRY

[@GTFour]

No 4 barrel and big header run! Left us wondering

[@williamstamper442]

Gotta love compression. My 455 Olds likes its 13.78:1 flat tops zero deck and 64cc chambers

[@JohnsonPortWorx]

You mean to tell me this would be better for my daily

[@gordocarbo]

Dave, think water injection would cool the intake charge similar to the cool can? What about icing down the tank (water/windshield wash fluid). Think those Holley heat shields are effective here in Ca with our wonderful fuel?

[@Nobody-ld7mk]

Looks like Holley's 170GPH mechanical pump did the job.

[@gordocarbo]

Think they took over/bought out Carter. Have a Carter 172 gph manual pump I love...cant buy them anymore or any rebuild kits. Holleys version is crazy $.

[@pollycat1294]

thats a beck song (two dominators and a tunnel ram)

[@gordocarbo]

Have a Carter 172 pump on my 385sbc no regulator for many yrs. Pizzed to find you cant get rebuiod kits or new pumps. Only option is a $400 Holley pump. A tunnel ram will be on mine one day. W/anodized velocity stacks. Yeah!

[@MatsNorway]

ITB vs other intakes when?

[@scotthultin7769]

22👍's up Finnegan thank you for sharing 😮

[@AR-ed3xw]

Finnegan?

[@keithscudder7136]

No more Faster with Finnegan, we now have Faster with Joe Blow !

[@johnbehneman1546]

GREAT VIDEO AND A GREAT MOTOR!!!! PLEASE KEEP US UPDATED!!!! I LOVE EVERYTHING!!!! IT ALL WORKED OUT PERFECTLY!!!!

[@drummerchaniking7026]

Trust the science round 2....IYKYK

[@wesleyhendley1686]

put more port taper in the intake it will make more power everywhere

[@natemartinez4595]

They all had to cover up mornin bresth, it looks like. Brush more 🤘🤘🤣🤣🤣

[@r000tbeer]

Can I get sweet jumps off the tunnel ramp?

[@nathanvanlieshout7834]

Man I was hoping they put the 4 barrel on again

[@jeffreycattelino3996]

Can you please do a video about head lift please thank you?

[@larryok8156]

Just curious, anyone know the most power produced at west techs dyno?

[@jediknight1294]

They regularly do top fuel stuff so I'd guess in the 4500 range

[@firstielasty1162]

You don't dyno top fuel engines...they last about 4 seconds. And are now(I hear) about 11000 hp. That number might be from strain gauges on the car..driveshaft or engine mounts or something to take a force measurement, which can give you torque which, with rpm, gives hp. I guess it is a dyno of sorts.

[@gregorykotoch5045]

Back in the 90s you could make a 1000 hp naturally aspirated. The engines from then to now would look almost exactly the same. Not much has changed in 30 years.

[@Botticelli319]

How about a photo of the rocker arm setup?

[@biscuitboy3617]

You would have made way more power with the same displacement Mopar Hemi, or Boss 429 style engine, and they'd look much cooler too!

[@josephf593]

Not to mention, keep your ford ALL FORD!

[@xmo552]

Is that a blower on top of a tunnel in the back??

[@lindsaymcpherson4744]

Have they tried 4 into 2 into 1 headers ??

[@PNW_Car_Mods]

Is this an old video? I'm very confused.

[@joe-hp4nk]

If you turn the pistons around you'll get more power.

[@johnbecay6887]

@@bigboreracing356 i think @joe-hp4nk is mocking the bruhaha over this controversy a few months ago.

[@bigboreracing356]

@@johnbecay6887 Lol. Whoever started that controversy needs mocked.

[@joe-hp4nk]

Tell that to David Visard.@@bigboreracing356

[@gordocarbo]

WIth domed pistons? WHo told you this

[@gordocarbo]

probably reads uncle tony @@bigboreracing356

[@ViewThis.]

It appears the Fuel Pump met your goals. Not all is lost

[@johngarlick7115]

Can you get 1000HP with a mechanical fuel pump and tunnel RAM ? There fixed it for you lol, btw y’all are awesome.

[@seasterl]

Why not gear it to limit it to 7200 and save your valve springs and you can still rock that old school intake and still enjoy more torque and power?

[@jeremyfilip4190]

I love learning about engine building from people smarter than me so i have to ask. Why is it that the longer runners and more plenum volume, causes a motor to nose over at a lower rpm?

[@noncog1]

Intake pulse resonance. To be honest, for some people this is a pretty deep dive, but I'll explain briefly for those that can pick it up easily. When the cylinder is sucking in air, all the air in the port, runner, and plenum are flowing in that direction, and have inertia. When that intake valve snaps closed that air that was flowing as quick as it could hits a wall, and for a second it's inertia compresses it against the back of the valve. This turns into a pressure wave that then runs back up the port and runner until it hits the less restricted volume of the plenum and bounces back yet again, heading back towards the valve. Ideally, you get this pressure wave hitting the back of the valve as it's opening, so that the air is flowing into the cylinder before it even starts creating a pull, or at least sometime when the valve is open, slightly reducing pumping losses and slightly increasing cylinder filling, both leading to more power. The the pressure wave always moves at the speed of sound, so the longer the runner is, the longer it takes to flow all the way up the port and runner then all the way back down, so the engine needs to be turning slower for the timing to be right. Shorter runners mean the engine needs to be turning faster, to slow and the wave will hit rhe valve again and start heading back up a second time before the valve opens. The more cycles of bouncing between valve openings the less effective this is. Once you get to a length beyond the impact of resonance, another factor (that's been there the whole time but not enough to matter) starts to have an impact. The longer the port and runner, the more the air will want to slow down as it rubs against the walls of the tight space. Think drinking a milkshake through an extra long straw instead of a regular one. Eventually the air has to be moving really fast to fill the cylinder in the short time the valve is open, and the long runner just chokes the airflow too much for it to be able to keep up. Pumping losses go up, cylinder filling goes down, and power goes away.

[@noncog1]

Btw, the same principles apply to the headers for exhaust gas scavenging, which is why primary tube and collector length matter, and why in this episode to headers with the shorter primaries and collector (but same diameter for both) made less power down low but more up high. You aren't actually changing peak pumping efficiency (and therefore torque), just moving what rpm it happens at. This concept is called exhaust pulse scavenging, but it interacts more between cylinders, which is why the collector is so important, you want your pulses, but you also want the pulse from one cylinder to pull air through the collector as the next pulse is entering its primary, the first pulse gets the air moving down the line, and creates a low pressure wave behind it that helps put the next cylinders pulse out with it, decreasing pumping losses, and getting more exhaust out of the cylinder, which means it will pull in more fresh air next intake stroke.

[@3vil8unny]

If the mechanical pump doesn't work out I would love to throw that on my bew TDI lmao

[@MrWoodshoes]

Now if he chopped the top, it would improve the drag coefficient !

[@evilkillerwhale7078]

Drag coefficient is not affected by frontal area. Drag is.

[@danpatterson8009]

Not a racer. How is a car geared for a drag race- to just touch the power peak at the end? Even if there were slight fall-off I'd think all that torque would help accelerate the car faster earlier in the pass, and it comes down to how much of that past-the-hp-peak tach you intend to use.

[@noncog1]

Yep, if peak power and torque are both higher just regear and shift sooner

[@matthewklein9225]

Came here to say this. Fully agree. I'd be super excited gaining that power

[@TL-angzarr]

No, you want to be in high gear as soon as possible, drag cars spend as much as the last 500 feet past peak HP. If you just barely touch peak HP at the finish line you are leaving lots of ET off the table.

[@TL-angzarr]

You also misunderstand what HP is. HP is simply torque x RPM divided by 5252. This means if you are pushing more RPM and your HP is dropping off your torque is really dropping off. But in a drag car you will ET faster gearing the car to get moving as quickly as possible, the first 60 feet and even 330 feet are super important for ET.

[@matthewklein9225]

@@TL-angzarr horsepower was a way for companies to market the abstract concept of an engines ability to do work. In a time when a horse did the work. Horsepower at low rpm is exponentially more power than horsepower at high rpm

[@Botticelli319]

Are you running a flat plane crank???

[@danielschaw6305]

Normally I complain about the flip-flops but you guys are such pros. I love the mask. Go get them boys. Thank you for all your crazy content. Love it!

[@autotek7930]

What's a tunnel ramp?

[@BoujeeHillbilly]

I’d like to make you a proper china wall spacer

[@Welcometofacsistube]

Ramp or ram? Fire your IT guy

[@CathodeRayNipplez]

Harsh and you missed a full stop. Ban you from commenting?

[@terrysmith8133]

what do you think about millling (shortening) the tunnel ram runners a little at a time and dynoing?

[@benjamindixon7571]

351c might do it

[@benjamindixon7571]

Bob Glidden 1980 season 8.40 last race and wins

[@Lobo-tommy10]

Tunnel ramp? Isn't that in Europe?

[@firstielasty1162]

Do channel tunnel ramps work even better? At least they cost a lot.

[@JeremyinCars]

They didn't even get to the fuel pump!

[@LukeTheJoker]

Fuel Pump test?

[@ArthurSperotto]

If MotorTrend replied, I would love to know the fuel being used... but we know they don't reply anymore, so oh well

[@scottb232]

I only clicked on this because I wanted to learn what a tunnel ramp is.

[@stedehans3851]

Tunnel Ramp?

[@sepg5084]

If people be stacking something that tall on top of that big engine, it better have at least 1000hp. Looks tacky, but having 1000hp n/a would make it barely worth it especially that a smaller engine with a supercharger would be more compact and can do 1000hp, reliably. EFI is ancient tech by today's standards. Been commercially available since the 1950's, more than half a century ago. Simple by today's standards that DiY mechanics can manage it.

[@gordocarbo]

and make plenty less torque also. Tunnel rams are badazz...cant deny a st presene and they work great tuned properly

[@sluggo182]

tunnel ramp?

[@GaryMathews-qk8de]

a vacuum pump should add 30+ hp

[@user-dx2cj4rs6d]

YOU. SHOULD TEST THE OTHER INTAKE

[@turkishmurphy]

I want a tunnel ramp

[@Francis_Castiglione]

The most compression i've ever seen on a gas engine is 16.75:1.

[@nathansmoke9710]

should put the mask over the carb see the gains without vs with it

[@meh-canics9628]

Does the Engine stink that much?? 😂

[@CerealKiller.]

I Don't want to distract you, but engine is 9.53 Litres of displacement, that's almost 5 Mountain Dews *hahaha*

[@kitimatdude]

run dual salad bowls on top!

[@cagedruss]

Please explain the head sock. Why are you wearing it in the dyno room but not in the other room?

[@turbomat8536]

Nice masks!

[@sunelarsen]

you are gonna have issues running that mech fuel pump unless your fuel tank is in front of the pump.

[@superspeeder]

Am I crazy? Since when does gaining hp while adding SERIOUS area under the curve equal a fail? That tunnel ram is a HUGE improvement everywhere except the last 200 RPM. Suck it up, shift 200 RPM lower, and enjoy a far superior power curve. THEN you act like it’s all sunshine and lollipops because the headers win back 100 of those 200 lost RPM. Really? From total disaster to drag strip dominance in 100 RPM? You guys put out some of the best engine info available, but this is definitely not it. If your goal is going quicker and not some arbitrary goal like “I wanna shift at X RPM!”, the tunnel ram is the undisputed winner here.

[@keith38able]

the masks crack me up, 0% effective

[@Springfield-eo8jl]

I reported it for promoting terrorism!😂 Then I unsub'd, time to make MT the next Bud Light!

[@RJ_DSRider]

Yep, they lost me at the masks. Bye motortrend.

[@LVUFC]

Y’all realise this is like peak Covid bullshit and they had to wear a mask on camera to keep supplying you content. This episode was probably filmed 2 years ago boys.

[@pitbullfarmer34]

Exactly 💯

[@needmoreboost6369]

I saw that mask and thought alcohol n nitro perhaps? Is sneaky for na power