Mountain Bike Frame Designs Explained | Everything You Need To Know About MTB Suspension - Part 2

[@GFClocked]

Thank you so much!!! This is great. Please make one for geometry ❤️

[@TheJofrica]

Second that, good idea

[@dylan-5287]

Wow this is the ultimate suspension explanation. I had to watch so many different things and read tons of sources to get all this beforehand. This is all that info perfectly condensed.

[@s3rac]

This is one of the best suspension explainers I've seen, and I've seen quite a few. Your taking the time to provide so many examples of various designs is what makes this stand out from the rest. As you say, brilliant!

[@senanryan8476]

The way the camra was focused on doddy is like the shugger crash guy video

[@ThunderStruckMTB]

How good is Doddy? I watched the entire video even though I ride a SC Chameleon HT.

[@russelltaylor1500]

Love to see you featuring the smaller uk brands as examples

[@jameskatz3747]

he uses them because they adopt some of the different style linkages 😂 he's not picking them cos their english

[@russelltaylor1500]

@@jameskatz3747 plenty of other brands use thoes linkages, and even so they seem to get forgotten or missed out of these kind of mainstream videos. I just thought it was nice to see smaller brands featured

[@jameskatz3747]

@@russelltaylor1500 but then take the high pivot, most of those brands are brands that use it a lot are british, i was just making a statement about saying i think he used the british ones as they are well know for using different linkages

[@russelltaylor1500]

@@jameskatz3747 I didn't realise any of those brands were British, I was more refering to cotic Curtis etc. The cotic has a fairly standard linkage so was nice to see it featured. Tbf it's the sort of video I love anyway as is always going to feature unknown brands as you say due to different designs, partly why I ride a FS Stanton haha

[@crookedcrank2566]

Great vid. I've read so much stuff that ends up just being words on paper as it blurs with information overload. Thought this explained things really well.

[@daniellong2103]

Great explanation. It would have been nice to see the different setups in motion through the full range of rear suspension travel though, as opposed to just pictures.

[@GTS5691]

Phew! Echo that Doddy. There was a lot to take in there. Will have to watch it over a couple more times. But well worth doing so. And on a more general note I'd like to applaud you - you specifically - for the content that you put together and present. Informative, interesting and enjoyable. You're smashing out it out the park! Keep it up.

[@Clambelly]

Incredible display of terms, engineering, design, parameters and application. Great video !

[@7dragongames]

Hey Doddy you missed fully floating suspension designs. Some exampled are Trek's Full Floaters, that combine ABP with a floating shock. I had a Remedy with Full Floater and it felt amazing. Additionally Eminent Cycles and the Schwinn Straight-6 use another fully floating design.

[@MarkCimijotti]

Incredible technical depth and history. Will have to watch a few times. Well done!

[@ROBinJVILLE]

ive had a few systems, and i have come to find that the simplicity of the single pivot is for me...especially since the shock tech is so good now. also, they pump u out of bermed turns like nothing else.

[@nicolasdesanantonio]

My favorite channel on KZbin right now, i love your videos so much👍

[@Dom6161]

One of the most informative mtb videos I've seen in a while. More Please!

[@Trailz6of7]

This was the best. I actually learned from this. Thanks Doddy. Spacers will my next video....

[@johnnydoe66]

I had a 1993 GT RTS 2 with GT's Rocker Tuned Suspension. It had no pivots on the rear triangle, but I assume that the chromoly rear would flex like the Cannondale Scapel does with carbon. My 1996 GT RTS Team had the Horst Link and you could definitely tell the difference. My last "full" suspension bike was a 1998 Barracuda XC with the U.R.T. design, it made it into GMBN Tech's rewind segment about 3+yrs ago.

[@energyideas]

This video took a huge effort to explain FS. Thanks.

[@patrickmoran8583]

Very helpful to have a technical discussion about suspension linkage design devoid of all the marketing jargon. Thanks!

[@chiefsilverback]

For me the most important part of this video was Doddy saying "you'll struggle to find a bad bike these days". A friend of mine pores over suspension/frame designs and they're theoretical advantages and disadvantages, I take the view that unless I get to ride all the different configurations back to back on the same trail I'll likely never know the difference.

[@sandstorm31]

Take a shot every time Doddy says "okay?" :)) Awesome video guys!

[@noahransom768]

Cool to see a Cotic. Are you guys still planning to get Cy Turner on the show? That would be ace.

[@hle6391]

do you know what "uninterrupted swingarm" means? please tell me if you do

[@noahransom768]

@@hle6391 I think it means the swingarm pivots about one point, so it's a very simple linkage.

[@raykleiner3151]

Doddy always appreciate your opinions. Thanks

[@siyz250]

Well done team 2 epic/educational vids from the authority. Thanks Simon, NZ MTB.

[@lukeonthestork]

Im currently trying to get my head round suspension your videos are great at explaining this :-)

[@evo5349]

There was one suspension system made by Suzuki called Full Floater on motocross bikes, but because there are patents on it that Suzuki didn't own. The shock was compressed at both ends and linkages lengths changed for different ramp up or valving internal. It was best on deep sand and reacted to harsh holes so good but no-one seems to bring it back to mountain bikes. I made a system on my Giant Trance on a air shock very cheaply and it was very good but Giant wasn't interested and never got back. The works riders at Suzuki said it was a big advantage too wards the end of the race as that was when it was super rough the only limit was the forks as it was early into cartridge damping.

[@KBE87]

Interesting vid. Suggestion for a new "everything you need to know about..." video: Bottom brackets. #askgmbntech

[@trrize]

Cant wait to take delivery of my cotic jeht very informative that was doddy

[@gryyta9617]

I have a solaris max and its fucking rad, you are gonna love yours! I actually thought of switching to the new Jeht, it looks really mint.

[@bongers94]

Superb info,even if i dont own a full sus.Keep it up Doddy!👍👍👍

[@k415t4udt]

Love the video ! But I find it quite hard to really understand what part moves where in order to differ from other designs. Is it possible to show sequences of the bikes moving though its travel ? I suppose that gives viewers a better idea of what the suspention actually does. Cheers

[@isaks3243]

I personally ride a trek and I can say that it works really well. breaking doesn't affect the rear travel in the slightest which makes the bike extremely calm and predictable under braking. I love that bike and i will be staying on it for a very long time

[@danfarmer_photo]

Doddy the bike god.

[@graysonadams2485]

the kona and comencal bikes shown for single pivot are four bar???

[@AMPJ08]

It helped a lot thanks for this. New go to bible on suspension designs for the rear and for what.

[@LigGLe]

Hello GMBN team. It would be great if you marked Doddy's explanations in the pictures you show and indicate differences while comparing different examples.

[@hle6391]

I don´t even know what a pivot is

[@floydblandston108]

Two not mentioned; MacPherson Strut and Stevenson Five Bar Linkage (Moots YBB and Felt, respectively). Also, Maverick- which is best design ever, by far. : )

[@samueldzurina290]

What suspension design is marin rift zone ?

[@MTBs]

Great walkthrough, thanks!! 👍

[@mpaveglio1884]

Awesome vid. So much info.

[@Velo1010]

And Cannondale came out with a high pivot MB with an idler jockey wheel.

[@neilhammet5829]

How would you classify the Pace fully floating design on the RC295?

[@jpauldion]

I didn't see it listed here, but what would my 2017 Trek Fuel EX be called? It has the full floater shock position unlike the 21 Fuel EX. Thanks!

[@brunoraffo6726]

Do you have some video or link explaining the URT pros and cons? I know they're a thing of the past now, but anyway...

[@awolasap4554]

Fathers has an old Klein Mantra Carbon. What style suspension would that be?

[@umangpatel9299]

Nice explanation sir Thanks sir

[@hallstewart]

Never understood idrive. The pedal axle is part of the rear triangle so how is the rider suspended?

[@ToyBoysChannel]

Is a mullet suspension setup possible? Say I run a 140mm front fork with a 100mm rear shock?

[@pbanthonyv]

Cool vid, at some point I feel as if I as a consumer really shouldn't be concerned about most of it though, other than maybe high pivot. I have gone down these types of rabbit hole before and usually it comes to me asking "Why don't they make X" where the reason is manufacturing and materials limitations. The engineers get paid big money to design bikes and mostly I think they do a pretty good job, taking things into account that you or I would never think of. I think it's all about finding a shop or reviewer that you trust and going with that, or doing test rides, that should lend the most credence. At least once the basics are accounted for.

[@wallypix1]

Telai Verlicchi... is that a Sintesi or an Iron Horse? I have an IH purple one...

[@iffy_too6465]

Use rear braking squat to aid fast cornering while scrubbing off speed. Grabbing a handful of front compresses the forks and makes the bike stand up an want to go straight ahead. If you can compress the rear using braking it will pull through a corner. At least that's how it works on motorbikes.

[@piotrekkociuba5929]

Is it possible to make closed captions, because sometimes its hard to understand. Thanks, great video btw

[@miikasparf2613]

Are there any Full floater designs? 🤔

[@peterwor]

Can you tell me why the lower pivot point isn't designed coincident with the crank/chaining? It seems, to me, that a pivot at the cranks would effectively give you a hardtail chain path.

[@bananasstuff3344]

It would but it doesnt offer that many advantages.

[@durt_mcgurt9090]

Could you tell me what the Ecotric Bison electric bike has? It's a custom design frame and confusing.

[@md.moinulislam9467]

Very good analysis video......

[@The_One-Eyed_Undertaker]

What type.of suspension does a Canyon Spectral has? Four bar? Im confused....

[@TheKryschko]

What about the "M-Link" system that Fuji uses on their mountainbikes?...four bar suspension system with a pivot in the middle of the chainstays. any pros/con to that?

[@GeraldoSpT]

What about the Scott Equalizer?

[@smoothisfast6644]

Please explain Specialized Brain suspension.

[@I-Love-Taylor-Swift]

Looking forward to the video about geometry

[@rommelreyes2209]

what suspension design does lapierre zesty 4.0 have?

[@bonzsk]

what link category would Propain cycles, Bold cycles, antidote, unno fall into?

[@chw0112]

Bold is a four bar but one linkage component is inside the frame.

[@mikehill8102]

#AskGMBNtech For your upcoming video on geometry, perhaps you can cover shock tunes. For example, what effect a mid comp/rebound tune shock would have on a bike designed with a low comp/rebound tune shock as spec. This is a really great series Doddy, cheers.

[@laurynasjagelo5075]

well you've answered your own question; long story short, it becomes overdamped, aka harsh.

[@itarry4]

Doesn't modern suspension with lock outs etc make anti squat less important and less of a factor in design thinking?

[@andrewdecker627]

It’s actually kinda the opposite, lots of companies are trying to eliminate or minimize the need for a lockout/compression lever, so now they are much more focused on dialing in the anti-squat values!

[@itarry4]

@@andrewdecker627 I can sort of see the logic in that and think these new "automatic" suspension systems are a interesting development. However surly a lock out is the best way to climb, except for on very rough terrain I guess. I suppose, especially with emtbs bikes are doing rougher, steeper, harder climbs and then maybe an active but efficient suspension would make sense. Thx.

[@ale.wist.]

Great video

[@IndiNiall.]

Thanks for the vid, still Trying to get my head around the CVA system on my Niner rip 9, it's got a continuous rear triangle so I think it's a variation of the short bar linkage system, however the link goes under the bottom bracket rather than on top like the ones shown. Is this right? Or am I still missing something? Thanks in advance if anyone can help out 👍

[@harveyjoneswoodsman5956]

Now what about my dh bike it is a single pivot design however it has a chain idler gear way before it was popular look it up 03 trek diesel let me know what you think

[@graysonadams2485]

That looks like it'd be hell without an idler, is there a lot of pedal kickback???

[@harveyjoneswoodsman5956]

@@graysonadams2485 yes but in reverse tho, the cranks don't (kick back ) but instead push forward but only when pedaling it is a weard feeling

[@hallstewart]

Nope. If the chainstay is uninterrupted between the rear axle and the pivot, the rear axle describes an arc during actuation. The other links only affect the shock rate, not the axel path = single pivot.

[@sgricey2214]

Great video a lot of info. My banshee spitfire has a ks link design which group does that fall into?

[@jpg6482]

Love my Orange bikes! The new StageEvo is very progressive and capable without masses of travel

[@TerrenceLP]

GT i-Drive rules them all! 1st generation

[@parkervance3574]

They "Single Pivot Linkage Driven" bikes are actually still a four bar system. The term "four-bar" simply refers to how many linkages there are. This means VPP bikes like Santa Cruz, the DW link, as well as the Horst link and the "single pivot linkage driven" bikes are all four bar designs from an engineering perspective. The only true single pivots are the Orange single pivots and the old Santa Cruz bikes you see. Also there are plenty of high pivots that also use a 4 bar linkage. The only non-four-bar bikes that exist are the six bar systems that you can find on Knolly and the Specialized Demo/Enduro. The majority of the bike industry uses a four bar system with their own twist.

[@kiehlaxel9805]

Love this kind of Videos

[@samuelvallet7409]

Hi Dodd, nice video ! I have a question : I own a mondraker foxy, and I always wondered what category the zero suspension belongs to, since it looks like a short bar link but compresses the shock between these linkages at the same time. I mean, the bottom of the suspensin looks like a short link but the top like the linkage of a kona or giant ... I'm confused haha

[@rayglasscock9667]

How much of what does something to prove is laying down whatsoever little bit more fictionalized, come to think my 180bhp =180mph was all being said and done was definitely very simple to set up wrist being compressed must be some very sensitive toughness off road mountainness, my ole man would be turn in his grave (not allowed take his bike ) I'm thinking that maybe take as small amount say 100 mixture of various ability ,20 bikes team of trained technology spannerology (can you see where it's going )how many would know what soever been put at work if bits buts or maybes. I don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows, pumps don't work caused vandals took the handles. Don't judgement wrong I love all that is available shame it's so extremely exspensive to buy and maintain. Keep it tyres down bar's

[@Mike_Rogge]

@@rayglasscock9667 what

[@doncrescas]

If you do a video on geometry please address the burning question: are bikes getting too long? #askgmbntech

[@Alexandros_Patsialidis]

There is already one about it. Search for it on the channel ;)

[@doncrescas]

@@Alexandros_Patsialidis I recall one video where a guy asked about his XL Mondraker. Not where they address the general issue.

[@Alexandros_Patsialidis]

U right! Found these: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e4i8XoeeqLN-mNk kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5vYhoiAZdV4j68 One is fro WC ;)

[@bananasstuff3344]

Completely down to personal preference.

[@russelltaylor1500]

Yes they are

[@josephhowie9806]

But what's a horse link?

[@nerdexproject]

Loved it!

[@battistaverardi1240]

As far as I'm concerned the Jamis Dakar has the best suspension design ever!

[@trailbikesforMormons]

Bikes & Freedom = Life

[@Alexandros_Patsialidis]

Not even mentioned Canyon, I’m devastated 😵

[@chochlidakisalex]

Ναι....

[@Camoking-ks1iz]

Yea me too

[@rmhfpv9225]

thanks for this

[@samsterthegamer8521]

I can only imagine how time consuming it is to put the chain back on the cassette with a high pivot bike there's another cog, gear, idler wheel, guide wheel whatever.

[@bananasstuff3344]

I think it might take another couple of minutes. Big deal right.

[@83ChrisBlake]

Awesome show love this channel. I'm new into the MTB scene and am wondering about doing suspension adjustments on the fly. If I have my bike set up for downhill then want to spend the last hour of the day doing laps at a jump track would I adjust my damper compression and also rebound up or down? Is it worth taking my shock pump with me to add air and adjust the sag down or can I get by just by making the compression and rebound adjustments? Thanks in advance if you get the time to answer this.

[@aaron.ohalloran7312]

Does the position of the rear shock change anything? Is it already in a video somewhere 🤔 I ride hardtails i dont know anything about rear suspension but looking at getting an fs soon.. #askgmbntech

[@JustB1892]

#askgmbntech - is CBF that Canfield and Revel bikes are using, is actually a high pivot design? as it looks on the Revel bikes pivot is connecting through a link to an upper point above the bb, not as high as the examples you presented, and is it making the Revel bike more pedal friendly? On paper off course :)

[@24pavlo]

This is essentially a good video.

[@stevehunter7402]

Hey Maine..... like a tiny mini Quebec.

[@iansiah4207]

How abt dw6

[@wonderwatch2239]

#askgmbntech when looking at a new mtb, wouldn’t it be more correct to look at the effective top tube, from saddle to head tube, bcs the majority of riding is in the saddle, and not standing up (reach) ???

[@bananasstuff3344]

Modern bikes are more focused on descending that climbing. Also, that isnt true. In the uk, where you push up, you spend very little time in the saddle I find.

[@mattiethomson]

Virtual pivot?

[@siyz250]

#askgmbntech Hi guys. Have a 2021 TFuel EX7. After riding, up across and down hills I have found the front end is a weak link!! Upgrading to a near new Lyrik Ultimate. Hoping to keep Lyrik at 160mm (up from EX7s std 140) but bike mechanic reckons bike will be too slacked out. What rear shock options do l have to raise the rear 10 or 20mm to suit? (Bike mechanic also thinks this is not a good idea). Thanks for help. Si NZ MTB.

[@LeecMTB]

You will probably void frame warranty if you got to 160mm trek state no more than 150 on the front

[@ANTheWhizkid]

Where´s Horst? (Asking for Wally)

[@julinator2181]

What about Propains supnsiondesign

[@jameskatz3747]

that's what i was thinking but they don't have that on the bike anymore, i always it looked a bit stupid

[@Steve-wz5pz]

Awe. Inspiring. The guy at the end of the drug commercial has NOTHING on The Doddy!

[@samhutchinson4139]

Audio is messed up bud

[@SonofHannder]

Brilliant

[@vostock0998]

drink every time Doddy says pivot

[@alanbussell7894]

Explains but doesn't 🤔 I was hoping to find out about the advantages or disadvantages of a single pivot bike (Orange) and the effects of braking and pedaling on a SP bike.

[@sonnyfung5135]

Where is FSR?

[@hansghunter]

I don't know what you can do, but for explaining these things, animations are better for understandig. For me it is.🤷‍♂️

[@bananasstuff3344]

Are these guys animators or content creators and mechanics?

[@hansghunter]

@@bananasstuff3344 you're right. But it's somehow still a mountainbike magazine. It could be a little help for understand things better.

[@alfa916romeo]

As I saw that you have a German name maybe that will help you out.