Mountain Bike Frame vs Parts | What's more important?

[@mikieson]

holy smokes..this was a surprise to see. lol..I hope i worded my original comment to you with respect? I NEVER wanted to come off as intrusive or rude or mean? Having said that I really appreciate you taking the time to address this. It was something that just runs across my mind often when thinking of bikes. So who better to come to with the question than you Gene.

[@rgmtb]

Dude, you just asked a great question. All respect! Please email me your address when you've got a sec. Need to send you some thank you swag 👍😀👍

[@What_If_We_Tried]

Hello Gene, excellent question! And I'll just add right up front, that I've never had enough money to invest 1000's of dollars in a bicycle. What I've always done is bought a complete MTB for the FRAME, with the lowest grade stock COMPONENTS with the idea of upgrading parts over time, as stuff wears out. And as much as I would love to buy top tier stuff, I'm not a pro rider, nor a hobbyist with deep pockets. For example, I bought a 2020 Kona Process 134 three years ago, and it's assembled around a SRAM SX drivetrain. So, the other day, my rear derailleur mount broke, and I replaced it with a GX deraileur, and eventually, as other components break / wear out, I'll end up with a complete SRAM GX drivetrain. Bottom Line: I buy a MTB for the FRAME with longevity in mind via upgrades with reasonably priced quality REPLACEMENT parts. [Edit: So for your channel, maybe you could start buying stock MTB's - with a good frame - with the lowest grade stock components from the manufacturer, review that stock setup, and then UPGRADE that bike as you see fit, to demonstrate the viability of upgrading a MTB for longevity, and increased performance]

[@MTBMac]

100% this! Buy the best bike you can comfortably afford, prioritising quality and upgradeability, and upgrade the parts overtime. I still occasionally ride my 2001 hardtail, despite having a full suspension trail bike, and I still haven't quit upgrading that old bike. Still a pleasure to ride! PS... yes... the 2nd hand fox float 100 is technically more travel than the manufacture recommends... still fun!

[@jeromep4148]

Really interesting question. I have done 5 custom bike builds - all of various styles. By far the best builds we’re the ones with the top name brand components. So I KNOW components really, really matter. My conclusion: Put not so good components on a good frame and you have a not so good bike. Put great components on a so-so frame and you have a great bike.

[@FrankBrunke]

interesting point...but is this the placebo effect? Is it running great because you might have paid top dollar for premium parts?

[@jeromep4148]

@@FrankBrunke I did 2 builds with budget ( Chinese ) forks, brakes. Noticeably inferior to SRAM GX class components. Although Zoom single piston brakes are quite good and super inexpensive - meroca 4 piston brakes were terrible (had 2 sets and replaced them all). All frames were Chinese. Tantan fm-10, fm036, airwolf xc, and LightCarbon LCES004 ebike frame. All frames seem totally fine. Not without some challenges since nothing comes with instructions - that you KZbin - but they were fun and successful diy projects. So I would say no on placebo effect.

[@S_Mendez_28]

I really like the viewer question that inspired this video. As someone who's new to the scene, I've been doing my best to watch a read reviews before making a 2nd mistake (Bought a bike back in August before knowing anything about bike fitting, geometry...great bike, but wrong size) However, I feel that a good 90+% of 'Bike reviews' tend to start off with something like..."before I start the review, here's what upgrades and changes I've made"; bypassing the actual shop window setup. With a low budget preference, I assumed it was because of the price point, but the high-cost ones do it as well. Which makes me wonder why bikes are sold in complete form at all. It seems like it would be easier to just sell frames and compatible parts. As for video reviews in general, it would be nice if the title stated something like 'Stock' or 'Upgrade' review.

[@Jamesthebikeguy]

Interesting topic. In my opinion, product managers at bike brands don't get enough credit for handling this very question at several price points along the range of a bike. You can make or break a good frame with bad parts, but you can't make a bad frame a great bike with awesome parts. So when product managers are putting together bikes at certain price points, they are really evaluating how to get the most out of the product and still stay under a price point. When you build a bike on your own, so long as you don't shortchange the quality and the performance of the bike, I still think you're able to get a good understanding of how the frame rides as great parts simply can't make a bad bike. Good. However, you put on cheap and junkie parts to a wonderful bike, I'm sure the bike will overall not be great. My two cents, but in a perfect world we would all get to ride bikes with the spec the manufacturer chose, and then change out all the parts to what we are dreaming about and see exactly what the difference is.

[@craighoyt125]

Gene, I think what you are doing is spot on. The frame (suspension design, kinematics, geo and proper size) all are more important than the parts that you hang on the frame. Granted if you use incorrect parts (ie to short of a fork or wrong eye to eye on a shock) that will determine a negative ride.... But overall you are testing / evaluating the frame and how it rides.... If you do a test and you say " the bike was great but the brakes pumped up" the people watching your video should know that has nothing to do with the bike, as that was your spec... I do like the idea of having a "standardized spec" for each build. Like if you used the same bar, stem, seat post, wheels, tires and same fork brand (and performance level) but adjusted to travel needs. This would be pretty interesting. I also like the idea of the base line test... starting out with the OEM spec and then changing / retesting with your "standardized spec".... Just my 2 cents..... good job, keep it up!

[@Chan1881]

Glad you’re raising this. I have heard KZbin Channels who get top-of-the-line bikes from manufacturers to review say, “We’re just going to focus on the characteristics of the bike that are common to all the spec levels.” I’m not sure how you do that?? You’re reviewing a $15,000 bike and I’m maybe interested in a version that’s one third or one quarter that cost? Even if the frame is the same, surely those spec upgrades are going impact its feel and performance?? At least you’re saying both the frame and the components do impact the final result.

[@chuxmtb]

I've thought the same thing many times. I'm in the process of building up a hardtail from scratch. I went with what some people would consider a budget bike - Kona Honzo DL. Buying it stock from Kona's website, its nice, but not what I was looking for. But I liked the frame - I liked the look of it, the geo was good (not extremely slack, but decent), and I liked the price ($600). Buying it stock would give you a nice XC bike, but nothing great. But I'm trying to put parts on it that put it in a better category - an aggressive, hardcore, trail/enduro bike. Doing it this way allowed me to get some of the really nice components I like - fork, drivetrain, wheels. Individually, they all cost almost as much as the frame itself. The fork was actually more expensive than the frame. So related to the questions you're asking, if someone asked you if a Kona Honzo DL was a good bike, you'd really only have the Kona website's stock build to base your judgement on and you'd say "uh, its ok". But my specific bike? You might think differently, and hopefully you say "its REALLY nice." In my opinion, it's not so much the frame only that determines that - its the components. I'd much rather ride my aluminum Honzo frame with a super nice fork, great wheels, and beefy tires than a carbon Santa Cruz frame with 2.2 width tires, cheap wheels, and a 100mm Rockshox Judy fork. Obviously, nobody is spec'ing a Santa Cruz like that, but you get my point. Sorry for the long-winded monologue here, but to answer your question I think both the frame and the components are important, but I think the components are what makes or breaks a bike.

[@jeromep4148]

I think you nailed it. I totally agree.

[@limegreendemon5847]

Hey Gene, that’s definitely a super tough question. You can’t really have a “set” of parts as frame geometry is different some have more travel some have less. I think building the frame within spec is probably best and safest, we’ve all seen people say going up 10mm is okay and even Santa Cruz states 140mm for the Tallboy is the max recommendation which is +10mm. For people just getting into the sport, they’re looking to see reviews based on what models they can buy from the companies out there. I’m on the other side where tinkering with parts is fun but can be expensive! So all in all I don’t think you can make everyone happy and I wish I had the answer. I enjoy seeing the frame builds like the pumpkin bike Trifox at the time I was considering one of those then a friend put his Tallboy 3 up for sale, that’s my current toy which is a great ride.

[@mtbboy1993]

I guess it's possible to use some of the Same parts. Drivetrain, stem, bar, cranks, pedals, saddle, grips. Some bars will be super harsh, this might result in fooling 4ide into thinking fork performs badly. Gonfor part syou know are comfy wha works for you. But if there is a rebuilt bike you review you should test it as is and change one part at the time review each of the components, and mention how each part change effect what and how.

[@colinl2908]

I cool video and the question certainly got you thinking. I think the frame seems to be key, as lots of the other parts can be quite similar e.g. Deore and XT have similarities and both work well but big price difference. Grips, pedals, saddle, bar, disks, dropper (as long as has one) are all personal choice and are not game changers as long as they are not amazon budget cheapies. Medium level gear is all pretty good. Probably the big ones is fork/shock and if you let people know what you are using, I don't see a problem.

[@Frankfawson-rv1sp]

Great video. I think you should review the bike the way you can buy it from the manufacture then maybe do an upgrade to the parts you like and do a comparison review. Showing cost difference if you bought the comp build or if you went frame only and built it yourself. Thanks for the videos...

[@wirobiro]

Great channel Gene!

[@mikieson]

Without reading all the comments,might I suggest something? This could be fun. AND I think its a proper way to really settle the topic at hand. My thoughts are, buy a bike with all stock parts. Ride it. Test it. Record everything on video,paper/notes etc..THEN..take your favorite parts and put them on the frame and run the same tests. THEN I think you can come to a final conclusion on the bike. Again this could be a fun test. It would cost a little more in the long run as you would be purchasing a full bike. BUT then again, you'd have all the extra parts to fall back on if/when needed..Thanks Gene for the videos and the hard work you put in. You are about 1 or 2 cycling channels im still with. Why? Because you are just a Regular Guy :)

[@S_Mendez_28]

Great idea.👍

[@craighoyt125]

This is a good idea. I like it.

[@mtbboy1993]

Great idea, that's the only way to know how each part effects the bike.

[@akaraikiriakatsuki3157]

The bike is the whole thing. Once it's put together. A frame is just there to put your parts. Ride quality is based on the parts you put in it. I have a hardtail xc 100mm travel for 1k usd conversation. It's great considering most of the parts are deore 12sd except hubs and rotors. SR Suntour fork and sagmit hubs

[@jasonkroll2735]

Get a top spec santa cruz and a Wal-Mart level bike . And switch parts.. And test times ... Feel ... and comfort. Don't know if I would want the good frame ...or the good parts.

[@mtbboy1993]

For me every single part on the bike matters. Great frame with garbage parts won't perform so well, not will a bad frame with great parts. A flexy frame might cause rear shock to get stiction, tyre ryb, and eat up the power, and will sway in corners and as you pedal. Flexy wheels cause tyre rub, make bike steering unprecise. Bad hub engagement make you struggle on techy climbs, make you travel less distance in each pedal stroke. Bad stem might result in loose handlebar or stem, bad fork will not keep bike as stable, planted, or comfortable and so on. Bad casette might mean it wears fast, bent cogs, sharp edges, loose rivets, cogs. Leading to shifting problems, same with bad rear derailleur. I've experienced all things mentioned so far. Bad brak pads means brake won't bite well, wear faster, pads might crack. Bad suspension linkage design might cause premature bearing wear, rubbing, bearing bore damage, flex. I can go on and on. Tyres make a huge difference. I try to review every part I use. Some don't get enough credit some get too good reviews. But most magazine reviews are not long enough, tested in all conditions, and to same extent. So nice to see some others review stuff properly. But would be nice to see mor eof that. Proper review is lacking. But Aston MTB buys and reviews stuff long term. Gives them away in lotteries you have to pay tickets to win. Interesting concept.

[@Johnnydammit]

The frame is the base, build on that what works and love for your riding style. You could put all of the best parts on it great! But remember! The machine is only good as it's operator!

[@330_Crew]

Doesn’t help the question, but my personal rule of thumb is to buy a moderate frame and use to extra cash to spec the best parts you can afford. High quality parts make such a difference in overall ride experience. For example I’d rather buy an aluminum FS over the same model in carbon if I can up spec the aluminum frame a step up or two in level.

[@mtbboy1993]

This works if frame is good, and uses travel you need and has the standards for the part syou bought, then you can transfer it to a new frame. But won't work if fork is too short, and wheels need replacing and so on. Yes you can adapt hubs and swap parts but bot economicallu good. But if you know the nr bike will have BSA 73 mm for example you can upgrade current bike that uses this standard and so on. But dropper posts have different diameters.

[@MTBndMore]

I believe it is a balance, but unfortunately changing frame geometry is way harder than changing components. With that said I believe the frame is more important as components can always be changed

[@mtbboy1993]

Some frames have adjustable geometry to some extent. Some can run mullet, 27.5 or 29er, my Geometron G1 can. Guirilla gravity has adjustable reach, can change rear end to make it trail bike or enduro bike. Mos bikes don't have stuff like this.

[@guamistheplace]

Either way is great.. but if building up a bike is your thing, then build it.. otherwise, save up and buy a really high end bike.. I own 3 bikes and the cheapest bike, I built up is my favorite. The other two have all the whistles on from purchase. IMO

[@lastpme]

For me it doesn’t make a difference…I like watching bike builds to help maintain my bikes.

[@bbobcats1]

review complete bikes might be more objective. i bet most viewers of your channel purchase complete bikes since you get the most bang for your buck that way. long time viewer, first time commentor. $.02

[@FrankBrunke]

Take it a step further...you are speaking to a frame/parts. But you are not speaking to the rider...and that will play a very large part in the frame and parts. The grips that you like, based on your frame...might not work for me. While I hear the question...and a good one, there are so many more factors at play. Let's not forget rider skill level and the areas you ride.