A 50 Minute Rant About The State of Cities Skylines II

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[@Kangamoos]

i always love a semi hinged rant :D

[@MoveTheMouse]

Unhinged outros are pretty standard around here.

[@CellTherapyCream]

"Just pay us several hundred dollars for DLC's, we'll eventually produce a mediocre game"

[@shilohslim1893]

Mission accomplished!

[@SuperMickyChow]

And there will be smooth-brains who will do exactly that

[@bigpoppa1234]

Victoria 3

[@wile123456]

Good thing that paradox games are extremely easy to pirate and enable DLC's, especially when the DLC's don't need downloading of extra files and are included with the updates.

[@droe2570]

Well, it's Paradox.

[@casey8836]

My love and hype for Cities and Cities 2 last year has completely deflated to no interest at this point. It's such a bummer

[@St4rTr3v1Ut10n]

Same. I won't ever touch CS2, though I'll likely go back to CS1 when I'm bored. It sucks because it looked really good

[@AlexanderJew]

i got so bored so fast. The cities all looked the same and so bland. CS1 is so fun

[@Meeesa]

The saddest part of all this is that WE WERE ALL SO EXCITED. We were so ready for the next Cities game, and were ready to take what CS1 was and make it even better. And we got a shit sandwich. I am so glad I never pre-ordered.

[@arakwar]

Worst thing about this is how they could had "fixed" this by being transparent and truthful.

[@JC_Cali]

That is defintely the saddest part, but the most EGREGIOUS part is how the utilized our excitement too - including using content creators - to convince us the game was ready and working as intended. Everything else since has proven that to be false- and I agree with people who felt it was false advertising and deceptive tactics. The trust of 8 years is gone and that hurts for many of us that enjoy this genre and don't really have other options.

[@Meeesa]

@@JC_Cali Agreed. However, I don't fault all our favorite KZbinrs, though. They were sold a lie as well - being told they were playing beta version that would be fully optimized and complete on release. I am going back to CS1 for now. I almost built a gaming computer for CS2 and held out after all the issues came out. I can still build that computer and play CS1 just the same. I do hope CS2 can be fixed. I'm still going to trust that they will do right by us. Either they will fix it or they won't. Guess time will tell.

[@Mike-ks6qu]

Same here man. I booted it up with my wife and we were excitied. The menu started glitching and freezing....i played it for 10 minutes. Absolute filth of a release. An insult to consumer's intelligence, really. Biggest letdown for a deacde for me as far as games go.

[@poilboiler]

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me thrice, because I like to preorder.

[@PeterEvansPeteTakesPictures]

Preordered SimCity 2013. Ended up in the severe burns unit. Swore never again, and never have. Indeed I never buy before a two week bedding in period now, when all the reviews are out and there's a good consensus. I'm happy playing CS and casually waiting until they turn CS2 around, if ever. In the meantime I'm also playing Zelda Tears of the Kingdom and Mario Wonder, two incredibly polished games from a studio who don't rely on DLCs and actually delay their games until they're feature-rich, bug free and ready.

[@user-jk3vz9gm9l]

LOL, a motto I thankfully learned to live by years ago. After being burned on the GTA remastered trilogy and GT 7, I will never preorder again. Bought a decent gaming laptop to play BeamNG and the new Cities Skylines but waited to buy Cities. It looks like it will be many more months before the developer gets any money from me. Thank you to all the honest KZbinrs out there for raising these alarms.

[@Brusselpicker]

The Paradox method 1) release a half finished game 2) release patches for minor fixes 3) release paid DLC to actually fix a few minor problems 4) continue to release paid DLC until you have milked it dry. 5) repeat as necessary. The reason the modders aren't on the payroll is because they already work for free.

[@boki1693]

Couldn't agree more. I have always hated how this game relied on the modders to put things in the game that the devs should have done in the first place.

[@brianv61]

All that and you still buy it...

[@Brusselpicker]

@brianv61 what makes you think I've bought it? I'm just curious. I don't own a PC or a console so it would be pretty pointless to do so, kinda like your comment.

[@brianv61]

@Brusselpicker Wow, you sure seem to know all the inner workings of game developers for a guy who doesn't even own a PC... talk about pointless, your opinion is truly pointless.

[@boki1693]

Time to get the popcorn out. :)

[@Timeister]

Appreciate your honesty in this one. Seeing record views leading up to launch, followed by a steep decline in the weeks afterwards, when the game's flaws became obvious, really shines a light on player's frustrations and perception of the game. I really can't blame anyone for losing interest in the franchise.

[@CitiesByDiana]

I was honestly really upset when they shut down that discord. Not that our feedback was really listened to.... Very well said, your video touched on a lot and its such a mess right now and in such a sad state.....

[@JWegers]

hey Diana, just trying to get some context about that discord and its purpose. so as i understand it, it was shut down closely after launch, so I am just wondering if its specific purpose was to communicate with a closed group of people to discuss content that wasnt available to the public at that point. Because in that case, it might somewhat make sense to close that down after launch even though i dont want to imply that it was a good decision. but i can imagine that they probably had a hard time to keep the level of communication you had with them before launch because it wasnt only you people giving them feedback but a million other players and i think we can all agree that they had their hands full with that and didnt handle that in the best manner as well. Personally i agree that they probably would have gotten better feedback in general, if they only listenened to that group of content creators and the modders/asset creators as those mostly being the biggest "stakeholders" of the player base and probably would have been more constructive and less toxic in general than what they got back from the general player base in the last couple of months. i think it became also pretty clear shortly after launch that they wont focus on any DLC in the near future, so it would be a while until they would require the discord again to communicate with you about content that will be available to you exclusively for a period of time before public release. Of course it would have been better to keep that discord open to discuss feedback on the base game after release but i somehow cant fault them if they decided that all their focus and resources has to be put into feedback and communication with the general player base after launch and it either wouldnt be fair to give you CC an exclusive pipeline for feedback and take the time to communicate with you exclusively. So i am not sure if it would have been better to close it shortly after launch or leave it open and more or less completely ignore it or just collect feedback without responding. Dont get me wrong, i think you all are rightful to be upset about this and i dont blame any of you for trying to promote this game and now leaving again for the time being. you all did a great job in creating content with the limited support the base game and CO gave you guys after launch, just like the modders. And while i can completely understand the reasons and issues phil and biffa mentioned, some arent really issues for me as a player becasue i can work easier around them since i dont have to create content or cater to an audience beside me. I dont have an issue with land value like phil, i can build and design around it and i like the challenge. And I lived close to or on water all my life and the water features in CS2 have been an absolute joy to play around with for me and I know at least one CC who might disagree with that. So that would be one point where i would say it would be unfair to give you guys prefered communication on feedback and on what has to be improved first. In the end, i think what the game and its players need for now is a low profile and CO needs time to cook. He are all hungry but we gotta eat elsewhere for a while, so i think its good that most content creators are taking a step back for now. this game wont be good for anybody until mods and asset support is there and that is gonna take a couple of months still and i think the more time they have to focus on that than moderating thing shitstorm, the better.

[@MoveTheMouse]

@@JWegers the discord was open from at least 2019. Closing only happened when they released something people were critical of. You'd think getting feedback from the creators who play the game for a living would be valuable. Also even if modders can fix it, they can't fix the broken core. And leaving it to modders alienates console users. That is my biggest issue.

[@JWegers]

oh yeah, 2019 is quite a long time, i thought it was opened some time early last year or so. Thanks for the extra info!@@MoveTheMouse

[@JaKingScomez]

@@JWegersbro pull your pants up. You’re really bending over for a scam game

[@wile123456]

If they listened to our feedback, bikes would have been at launch and not retroactively added to the bottom of their road map to be added in the game in 2028 lmao

[@twodollarstwenty]

Honestly could have listened to another 50minutes haha. Really great points and I think you hit the nail on the head with the communication from CO. I’m hoping this is heard by them (I have a feeling it is). And thanks so much fie the kind words!

[@MoveTheMouse]

If I could build cities like you, I might still be playing. But I'm not feeling any creativity and it's so slow. I hope they make some real changes.

[@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines]

Don't talk about names until you've had a Brit pronounce Michigan as Michigan instead of Michigan 😂 Oh the comments lol

[@MoveTheMouse]

The best thing about making mistakes on the Internet is you are definitely going to find out when you were wrong.

[@edwardmiessner6502]

Mitchigan?

[@34rjack]

I live in "Mitchigan" Biffa.....I thought it was funny hearing a brit try to pronounce Michigan. No worries, cheers!

[@shakestylz2823]

At this point, I've put more watch time in on CS2 rants than any other KZbin content for the game haha! Thanks for trying to amplify the voice of the CS community and just gamers in general. You rock! ❤‍🔥

[@JC_Cali]

Lmao literally same

[@geofff.3343]

I just want to know freaking how? How? How! How could this happen. Cities 2 was the city-builder. No one was coming for that crown. There was no hurry, This could have spent two more years in development and been way better, but either Paradox got greedy or Colossal Order lost their damn minds.

[@SuperMickyChow]

CO was already 2 years behind the original proposed release date. They'd kicked the can down the road for so long that Paradox got sick of waiting on their empty promises. This, for once, isn't on the publisher being impatient (as I an many others believed). It's all on CO, and their CEO not being able or willing to acknowledge that they had bitten off more than they could chew. Their ambitions outweighed their abilities.

[@tfjmp]

The lead designer of all their previous games left the company. That is how.

[@arakwar]

@@SuperMickyChow They could switch things up, make an early access release a bit earlier in the year, and listen to the community. This isn't that hard to do...

[@sergeantzack1106]

​@@SuperMickyChowyes it is

[@lumbagoboi1649]

They literally owned the city builder market. They could've made another game to dominate it for another 10 years. I guess a new dev needs to come in and crush cities skylines the way cities skylines crushed sim city.

[@markvogel5872]

Biffa did a 30 minute one.....lol you out ranted him by 20 minutes!!!!

[@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines]

I was going on the average length the Beechams tablets stay active for me 😂

[@DiegoCordovez]

@@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines thanks for that hahha

[@St4rTr3v1Ut10n]

The difference is Biffa is already back to making CS2 content because he's a shill.

[@christiangonzalez6945]

Biffa has to keep the golden eggs comming. He eats from that.

[@larrote6467]

@@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines as if you weren't part of the reason why this happened (and I told you several years ago and you replied a sarcastic quip): you're all about the eye candy and ignoring CS1 problems, constantly promoting its dlc's, well here you go. This was made for you and your audience

[@garyklyce713]

As a 15 year vet in the tech industry working in roles from project manager to sr. Manager of an experimental development team. This release broke my heart. As you know there have been so many spectacular failures in the industry that they could have learned from and yet… here we are! 😢

[@user-ft9ul5ul5v]

We made from it a laughtercase in our IT company. Laughing with all the IT staff including system analytics etc :D

[@Daveforever]

they don't care, they know you are suckers

[@JoyBuildsCities]

Thank you for sharing this. Appreciate your perspective. Excited for this upcoming conversation.

[@satch7123]

53 Year old Brit here who still uses CS1 when I have time. To me, this 'game' (CS1)is still just perfectly fine. I've bought numerous DLC etc and so feel invested enough to throw in my opinion. I was so excited for CS2 and sensibly waited for the reviews. After just one week, I stopped looking and lost interest immediately. Paradox, you really need to listen to the people (us) who pay your wages and keep you going. You are just like everything else in modern society: lazy, entitled and cheap. I am praying Manor Lords paves the way for a standard of excellence with new releases. They (he) have been patient, honest and because of this, all interested parties are also being patient and incredibly supportive. They deserve all the success. CS2 deserves to just fizzle out and take Paradox with it.

[@MoveTheMouse]

Excited for Manor Lords for sure, I'd say it can't come soon enough, but also, maybe waiting til it's ready is best.

[@WarbandGames]

Thats how it was for me.

[@joshuawells4842]

EA did the same thing to sims. Not bothered about anything but how to take your money. We not have expansion packs, game packs, stuff packs, and kits! Kits only have 12 items in them! All just about grabbing cash. Launched without swimming pools, hot tubs, moved from open world to closed world. Terrible. Unfortunately they’ve done the same to CS2 we received a half baked version.

[@afterburner94]

I dunno what Colossal Order is doing. They really are shooting themselves in the foot. Dunno if Paradox is pressuring them or what but actively shutting down communication channels with your community and content creators and not accepting any feedback sound absolutely grimm. Many studios had nightmarish launches, but most of them redeemed themselves beautifully. Take Hellogames and No Mans Sky, they raised from the ashes driven by community feedback. If Colossal is not listening, there is no reason to buy their game. Colossal Order prided themselves as being a no-crunch studio, and i genuinely and probably naively thought they were carefully building and polishing the design and systems for CS2 for the last 5 years, but it seems they just sat on their asses and racked the money from DLCs from CS1. And riding on the wave of successful mods to make their almost 10-year old game amazing. This is really disappointing. It seems these guys just dont want to produce quality work. Your rant is spot-on from the verybfirst minutes. Kept nodding in agreement.

[@DennisHipp]

Absolutely agree with your points. It's quite clear that a more responsive approach to community feedback could have steered CS2 towards a better direction post-launch, just as other games have successfully done. It's a shame to see a studio that once had a reputation for valuing quality seem to pivot away from those principles. The focus on DLC profits over the essential game improvements has been a sore point for many, myself included. Your assessment captures the general sentiment quite well.

[@meki___6881]

also the Colossal Order responses "if you dislike the simulation, this game just might not be for you" "growing toxicity " if your game has lots of problems (and still no official mod support) don't expect people to praise it. seams they are blaming us that the game is bad

[@shilohslim1893]

Re. the DLC - they're on the hook for the Ultimate Edition, they have that DLC debt hanging over them and they've obviously made the decision that delaying it will make things even worse, as if that's possible. Oh, and the Word of the Week is actually back - Mariina had "a call from Sweden" letting her know that we all loved it (honestly), so she's reinstated it - if you want a meme, "a call from Sweden" is it. Just when you thought this whole mess couldn't get any more laughable...

[@jaredlash5002]

I had to laugh at the part about the Thunderstore security concerns being offset by the lack of players. :D

[@geofff.3343]

The irony is the way you pronounced Nevada is more correct to the Spanish of its origin (continental vowels and all that) but when in Rome and all that jazz.

[@MoveTheMouse]

I almost went on that tangent but it was a 50 minute rant already ;-)

[@machintrucGaming]

@@MoveTheMouse Maybe it's my small european brain but you said Nevada a bunch of time and didn't hear any variations in the way you said it...

[@geofff.3343]

@@machintrucGaming The local way is to say the first A like the one in vat and not a short A sound.

[@AmandaC.]

The fact they didnt bring on the creators of these mods that literally fixed their game still baffles me. Sad to see them screw up this release when they could have done soooo much better! And I have a low bar for expections and they still fumbled.

[@matfax]

In their marketing campaign, they pretended as if that was the case, as if they completely involved the mod creators who made version 1 the epic game it is from a city painting perspective. Now, it looks more like they cherry picked some KZbin influencers and a handful of asset designers. Their marketing completely over promised the modding. Haven't they learned from Cyberpunk how damaging the marketing itself can be, even if the game is mostly fine (on PC)?

[@CellTherapyCream]

thank god people like you are honest and value integrity over access and shekels.

[@glacier265]

I thoroughly enjoyed this rant but I have to say that, as a geographer, you won me forever solely with your Nevada/Massachusetts contrast, and thank you.

[@MoveTheMouse]

:-)

[@tjlambaes]

If you don’t die a hero, you will live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

[@kieranedmunds2936]

The fact they haven't even shown a screenshot or small clip of the console version even now just weeks before "spring" is quite worrying to me, I have a feeling we aren't seeing this game for many more months, I'm on Xbox Series X

[@DennisHipp]

I share your sentiments about the disconnect between Colossal Order and the gaming community. The lack of genuine communication and understanding of player concerns, like the issues you've mentioned, only adds to the frustration. It's as if they're not fully grasping where the game is and what it needs, which undermines our confidence in their ability to prioritize and address the right issues. We, as part of the community, need to feel heard and reassured that the game is on the right track.

[@geofff.3343]

Man, I don't think I'll ever actually get this game, it's probably going to be four years and $20 in a Humble Bundle.

[@bandwagon240]

You and Biffa are on a tear...

[@gufu21]

And Cities by Diana put out her "I don't enjoy CS2" video a couple days before Biffa. We may even see a few more.

[@mfcrocker]

CPP also did an interview with Engadget, mostly around how poor and unhumble the communication has been from CO

[@gufu21]

@@mfcrocker And now CPP has put out his own video about the game-breaking bugs.

[@GaseousStranger]

Been saying this since the initial announcement trailer… An absolute shame. CS1 was my favorite game ever and they just couldn’t deliver a sequel at all. At least they delivered $52 million to shareholders

[@MoveTheMouse]

TO THE SHAREHOLDERS! 🍺

[@GaseousStranger]

@@MoveTheMouse I’ve watched this video twice today now all the way through. You hit on every. single. point. I have been thinking about and contemplating speaking about for ages. I think you really highlighted the core issues well. It’s good to hear that others have followed along closely enough to really understand exactly how this game went so wrong and why. I personally denied signing offers of EA from PDX out of personal principle - I am jaded from bad releases like Battlefield 2042, and after seeing the first couple of dev diaries unfold, even if it was “beta” footage, I didn’t want to be limited in my voice against what I thought were legitimate issues with CS2. I wish I got to access thing and be able to give feedback, but the issues were so numerous and obvious I couldn’t possibly be a part of that without just being a constant source of negativity. I do not blame anyone for signing up for early access at all though. I figured at the absolute MINIMUM that they would at least listen to basic feedback from their EA creators, but once the contour lines fiasco unfolded (and fall trees) I just lost all faith. Now hearing about the communication being cut off on discord and from following the words of the week every single week, I only keep up at this game at this point to see it crash and burn. and that is not even touching on major issues like how they hid the most major issues until after the refund window closed, and refuse to acknowledge refunds. And the CEO saying that it was the players fault the game was so broken. What a mess.

[@ShawnBuilds]

I could rant for hours but my momma taught me i f i didnt have anything nice to say then to not say anything at all so i limit my own rants to 10 mins lol i put more time and effort into complaining then i do in the game bc its so damn uninspiring. Good rant bro

[@Novers]

The worst part about cities two is it has some really good bones it has objective improvements vs cs1 but also falls flat in so many ways that cs1 did not

[@poilboiler]

My uninformed opinion is that CO aren't great developers, not saying they're bad or incompetent or anything like that, just that they aren't better than "merely" good at best. They released the ok/moderately good Skylines 1 to a ravenously starved city builder market and stumbled into great success.

[@SuperMickyChow]

Their CEO is incompetent and arrogant, to boot. Not a great combination

[@Jonas-tc8qt]

What city sim would you recommend?

[@alexhigginbotham8635]

Game design companies are abusing modders to finish their shit games. As much as it would suck for us, modders need to basically unionize against game design companies to stop what is basically fraud on the part of the game design companies... or we just need to start boycotting them... which shouldn't be that hard.

[@alisacrowder4833]

it is going to be 6 years of working on this game they started in 2018

[@LeeHawkinsPhoto]

I agree 100% with everything…except that I hate the way CO is continuing to communicate in just a one-way style…like this most recent one where Mariina is talking up the inner workings of the economy-while pointing out the bugs. She’s not doing anything to make us feel better about this unfun garbage game-she’s still marketing the game 😣 she’d be better off posting links to discontent KZbin rants…at least then we might think she was actually listening.

[@benjaminjonathanjamessisko7095]

No inbuilt Prop Line Tool, no workshop, horrible maps and mechanics. It's like they deliberately ignored all of us who LOVE CS I, or actively decided to piss away all the goodwill. :(

[@bigwillydier]

Rant appreciated.. as a console guy, definitely bummed to hear there’s still no release date and it still isn’t going well on PC. Really hope they can turn this around.

[@Macronaso]

I booted the game yesterday after weeks to see if patches had done anything, stared at the title screen for a few minutes remembering how the broken traffic and public transport, garbage performance and inability to truly control things like industry production made me quit the game the last time I playee it and promptly closed the game again. I think something big has to happen for me to play this game again.

[@SimplyAdia]

I feel bad for new players. I'm glad I was able to discover CS and found a great community with you all. The original CS content was always exciting and great to look at. Now, the CS2 content is just boring and so dull to look at. I haven't watched any CS2 videos or joined live streams like I used to with CS. CS2 needed a few more years to bake and I would have had no problem with continued support and DLCs and content lacks for CS. We shouldn't have to wait 5 years for CS2 to become interesting.

[@DennisHipp]

I fully agree! I also believe that the departure of the lead designer Karoliina Korppoo from Colossal Order has had a more profound impact on CS2 than we might realize. Her vision and understanding of the players were instrumental in the success of the first game, and her absence could be one of the reasons why CS2 seems to have missed the mark. It's a significant change in the creative leadership that might have altered the game's development path and affected its final quality.

[@joshkund]

Thank you for making this. As this situation is so sad. As the community might be slowly dying now

[@calvin872]

I for one agree with what you are saying, even as a pc player. I just do not think the game was ready for release. I feel I have not only been cheated but just flat out robbed. Unless they make some drastic changes I will not be buying any additional LDC's nor do I plan to place my trust in a company who has the heads so far up their butts its not funny. To be honest I see a repeat of the last version of Sim City. All in all it reminds of a simple case of misleading and false advertising.

[@mechwarrior13]

Cant wait to buy an optimized version with all the DLCs for $500 in 8 years

[@ramio1983]

They frankly barely listened to the players and testers of the game. They did some very pointless things that killed the game specs like making extremely detailed (and HIDEOUS) sims. They could have sacrificed this by making sims way less detailed and exchanging that detail elsewhere like actually having sims engage with parks, props, venues etc- just as they did with Vanilla CS1. Also i notice the cities lack "life"- empty stadiums, when 8 years ago they gave us MATCH DAYS, where sims from all over would pack into your Entertainment Quarter and stadiums to watch their teams play. These little details made our cities feel vibrant and alive, sadly CS2 compensated that with having 6000 clone dogs walking around your city aimlessly. Their handling of feedback has also been a massive turn off, calling us "toxic" for disliking what they did with the game. It's such a shame, why shoot your own feet with this franchise? The potential was limitless and what they gave us was so limited.

[@NerdyNanaSimulations]

I originally had the full version in my cart, but after watching some things and hearing some things, I backed it down to base game only. I am so glad I did that, while I enjoy puttering around with it occassionally, I do not spend the time on it I did with CS1 and in fact have gone back to the original like a lot of others. It feels kind of empty and devoid of everything CS. Similar to when Sims 3 fazed into Sims 4, it lost the lore and everything that made it the Sims, kind of like a de-evolving of the original. I feel a similar feeling playing CS2, I hope they fix it, but until then it will get some attention when I am burned out on everything else.

[@Jakeurb8ty82]

the big update for cs 1 before they announced cs2, we got a new tool for selecting what side of the road to zone. I guess im crazy for thinking this last min ui refinement was a a bit of the new game finding its way into the old. lul. no its not even in cs2.

[@moreisallyouneed4175]

I forgot Cities Skyline 2 existed. The titled alone made me do a doubletake haha

[@randombrokeperson]

I haven’t played CS2 but with the weather thing: they could’ve introduced a modern version of the system they had going for The Sims 2 Seasons or something. You could manipulate the seasons. And if you didn’t like a season, you could go back to the main menu, change the order of the four seasons (or put multiple winters, multiple springs, summer, whatever), go back to your save and it was changed

[@randombrokeperson]

But from the sounds of things, they thought one size would fit all for everyone & they’re too lazy to rethink their stance

[@esmeesowald654]

I used tot be a big cities fan, but CS2, I haven’t touched that game in weeks. Because of the performance of the game but also just the many many bugs. But a big reason for me to not check if that has changed since the recent update is that the game is kind of becoming boring. No mod support, no custom content, every city starts looking the same. Kind of upset with myself for preordering the ultimate version, was definitely not worth the money

[@StationaryGamingReal]

This is why I pirate. No harm, no foul. For me.

[@thisusernameiscurrentlytak7877]

Don’t pirate CS2, not even worth it

[@HistoryTeacherSteve]

Wait, they shut down the Paradox discord?!

[@MoveTheMouse]

Yup.

[@cynvision]

In the name of protecting their people from negative feedback that got too intense and personal. Maybe Sweden is different that way in workplace protection. To me it sure feels Paradox wasn't forwarding anything posted there to the devs in the first place since nothing offered made it into the new game. Maybe they were concerned the CS1 mod makers would ask for compensation if their product was used in CS2. Maybe that's a concern in Sweden laws too.

[@Nick-ue7iw]

Lot more likely they just got arsemad because they were called out constantly for failing to deliver. People have thin skin.

[@DimaRakesah]

Lemme just get my popcorn.🍿 I feel very similar to what you've expressed. CS went from one of my favorite games to one I cannot think of without being resentful and bitter that I paid full price for a beta game that doesn't appear it will reach the promised content for at least a few years. And the idea that important fixes might be included with DLC, instead of the base game, is absolutely INSANE. If I could get my money back, I would. Too many of us trusted and waited for updates and now we can't get a refund.

[@edwardmiessner6502]

I would like them to release a Cities Skylines 1A with the most popular mods, the most popular DLC features, realistic buildings, and the realistic look of a heavily modded city build like Coniferia by Infrastructurist.

[@maxsteel32]

The problem is that is not just a cost benefit analysis. It's a short term cost benefit analysis because shareholders are simply not invested in the long term health of the company only in the long term health of their portfolio which can easily just move elsewhere if there is even a quarterly dip.

[@thisusernameiscurrentlytak7877]

The saddest part is if they had actually cared about this game it probably would have been the best city building game of the decade

[@anonymousanonymity2815]

I just bought it yesterday because I got a better pc and heard a lot of performance issues were fixed or not as bad, I did not hear how bereft of content this game is. It’s actually sad. But the biggest thing for me is how butchered a lot of transit is. Building a sprawling connected transit network was actually my favorite part of the first game

[@jingitbaby]

As a fellow cyber proffesional I'm glad you raised the issue of downloading mods from unmoderated sites

[@Ricksdetrix]

I really wanted to buy CS2 day 1, hell I wanted to make videos on it, but your video convinced me otherwise. If I hadn't been so disappointed with Kerbal space program 2, I probably would've got it too, but I can't support a trend. I still want CS2 to turn into a good game, but they're not gonna do a cyberpunk, they're gonna do a classic Paradox and release 10 DLC and then it'll be a good game. That comment about closing the discord until DLC to promote was just.. yeah. They're not interested in the community.

[@SalamanderLights]

Most Nevadans really hate when Nevada is pronounced like the Spanish word nevada. I have no idea why this is.

[@magicaces13]

this cs1 footage is great. Is it me or do the textures look better in 1 compared to 2?

[@kantalarski]

Cyberpunk was a flop with 77% positive reviews on steam from the beggining - recent 92%. Meanwhile CS2 has 58% and recent 40%.

[@magicaces13]

So true what you say about a CEO, they can come in make a salary of $20m, fire many people when something goes wrong and walk away and probably into there next CEO job. They dont have vested interest in the company really, its not like an owner who built a company from the ground up and has passion about it. CEO type roles people come and go so quickly with the aim to make money for them and shareholders, that's it. I have a friend facing that situation now where this massive utility company in the UK has gone massively into debt after years of shareholder payouts and no reinvestment. The latest CEO was resigned after earning £1m per year and his team and many across the business are facing redundancy and cutbacks.

[@MaconMedia]

Just keep pumping out content on the original. I still play it every week and watch KZbinrs who still make videos about the original.

[@its_nebulose]

Lol I appreciate the sentiment of this video and agree with a lot of what was said, but I'm waiting for a creator to really dig in and demonstrate specifically what the problems are with the game and show them on screen. It's one thing to say the game is broken and boring, but I'd like to commiserate over some specifics. And I think it would help prospective players better understand why people are telling them to stick to CS1. Biffa did a similar high-level CS2 rant over generic unrelated visuals and, much like the game, it left me wanting more to sink my teeth into. Of course, these videos might just not be for me!

[@MoveTheMouse]

That last line is fire.

[@omegamezle]

Honestly glad I haven’t been able to touch Cities Skylines since C:S2 came out… I think I’ll just try and pretend the new one doesn’t exist, at least for the time being.

[@DokisKalin1]

I very much enjoyed this. Not just a rant but also very informative. I was starting to feel like a curmudgeon still playing Sim City 4 haha

[@googoofeesmithersmits4536]

the fact I couldn't distinguish whether the clips were from cs 1 or cs 2 speaks volumes lol

[@TheFeralFerret]

I liked this rant. Also I didn't even hear the issue when you said Nevada, lol. I am Canadian though...

[@MoveTheMouse]

Ne-vah-da vs Ne-vad-a, second syllable rhymes with dad.

[@tranquilitybase8100]

CS2 was rushed out early to meet a quarterly earnings call. Line must go up.

[@vaskoobscura_]

Thumbs up spot on. Just like many industries it's the Investors pushing for profits that are at the root of the disorder. I don't know if CS2 can be fixed. I think our only hope is that a small game creator makes a new version from the ground up. IDK. It's just really sad. CS1 was so amazing. Thanks for this video.

[@pavld335]

This is gonna CS1 all over again. We're gonna have to wait years until we get DLC's that will make the game better, just like with CS1.

[@user-wq9mw2xz3j]

except this was supposed to be better. we were supposed to NOT have to rely on 100-200+ mods and have an unstable game

[@user-wq9mw2xz3j]

well the underlying performance problems were probably the biggest reason for a sequel. Simulation changes (on paper at least) is also a great welcome addition. Having 100+ mods, other than performance and stability issues, was annoying because one needs to learn 100 new settings, buttons and often times separate systems The one thing I can't possibly go back because of is the road building though, it's quite amazing in csl2@@anicron399

[@matfax]

​@@user-wq9mw2xz3j And they delivered on that in version 2, making a lot of version 1 mods redundant. Once code modding becomes available.

[@user-wq9mw2xz3j]

@matfax not really. they needed to replace 100+ mods, they did maybe 10 or 20, while going back on 10 things from even the first game or introducing new problems that mods need to fix.

[@LeeHawkinsPhoto]

This is worse than CS1…CS1 was fun a year later, with two DLCs that added significantly to the game-I mean yeah, Snowfall wasn’t great, but I love the trams-so it was worth it for me.

[@69dividead69]

Thanks for the honesty. Good video ^^

[@Simuvation]

Performance was a mask to hide the total mess they made, i have played for a few hundred hours and i can live with performance issues and turn settings down but the gameplay is so broken. Who ever was in charge should be sacked.

[@wck]

I wouldn't play this game in the current state if it were free. It still needs a year or two in the oven.

[@hmgrraarrpffrzz9763]

Personally I like immersive cities. The simulation aspect is fun, and I like solving problems regarding the traffic or electricity grid or supply chains and that's all fun and great. But in the end it's more enjoyable to me when the thing is more immersive. And CS1 is more immersive than CS2.

[@BeachLookingGuy]

I'm actually kinda glad the game is going to need a lot more time. I finally got alllll the mods I need to make my dream build in CS1 and i just started it about a year ago. I feel much better that i can spend the next 2 or 5 years poking around at it until CS2 is ready.

[@LorBell]

The new YT CEO is destroying this platform because of greed, too. And, I believe the core issue with CS2 is that we all anticipated, hoped for, and expected a bigger, better, 'all the cool mods in-game' more fabulous CS1, but what we GOT was a new game with zero creativity and 100% micromanagement of boring aspects that don't even work. Aside from the maps and slightly better buildings, it just ISN'T CS1. (red flag when they dumped the Steam Workshop). I think most of us watched/play CS1 because of the creativity. Every build was unique and interesting. CS2 looks the same no matter whose video you watch. Micromanaging taxes, education, and resources isn't fun or interesting to watch, much less play. We're upset because CS2 isn't what we asked for or wanted, and the devs are upset because no one seems to like their 'vision'.

[@MoveTheMouse]

You just turned my 50 minute rant into a KZbin Short. Hit the nail on the head.

[@AmAyANiQuOlE]

They killed it for me when it didn't release on console. I think all the game developers are relying modders way too much, specifically the sandbox games

[@poweroutage93]

I was very excited when the trailer came out, but when I saw it was season based releases and a separate “mod” storefront, I lost a lot of interest. The technical issues at launch basically told me to wait many years and get the game fully finished and on deep discount.

[@jorgmethfessel5774]

the "simulation" is not existing at the moment, they just "fake it till you make it" - delete all your precious public transport...and nothing will change in your city. also zero effort in basic textures, there are not even textures in construction sites or industry zones, it just looks aweful.

[@Lockerus]

Coming from a Total War Warhammer fan, this sounds like a lot of the same stuff we’re dealing with. Rushed product, focus on milking dlc over fixes, lack of communication. Luckily the developer changed their attitude after the recent dlc bombed, hopefully a similar turn around happens here.

[@Beef3D]

Here's my anecdote and how I feel disappointed that I will not be able to create what I had envisioned; Previous year february, I went on a holiday trip to Czechia which wasn't exactly an amazing looking locale based on the surrounding architecture (lots of it felt like not too far off ex-soviet buildings), but it was a welcome change of scenery from the boring flat lands I live in in terms of it's nature. I probably should also clarify that this was at the very tail end of snow season there, and there wasn't much to do other than skiing at smalltime ski resorts and visiting Prague. knowing CS2 was announced not long after had me excited, having my mind race thinking about how I will combine a dense city with the natural beauty of the bohemians, but it was in vain, because, sure you can start a game in a mountainous biome in CS2, but no matter how I try to twist or turn the game in my favor playing legit, everytime again and again it forces my hand by to build ugly suburbia because there never is demand for higher density buildings and you always end up with the same bland looking city, sprawled all over an empty patch of land, and the barebones terrain tools make it nigh impossible to make natural looking incline roads around elevated terrain. add to that that the vehicle AI is horrible at recognizing when to turn lanes and often ends up bottlenecking other vehicles for suddenly taking a turn lane at the very last second of the junction, even when there's no traffic congestion whatsoever.

[@JC_Cali]

While not concise, it was emotionally resonant. It's so refreshing to hear gamers with influence say what the rest of us critics and critique-ers have been saying since day 1 P.S. Cheeky pun in the description box lol

[@MoveTheMouse]

Glad you noticed the description. Only a couple have called that out. And definitely not concise but that's the way I roll. Neurodivergent stream of consciousness without a script.

[@fssim6825]

You are right about PDX mods, I thought it would be days after release. Abandoning the steam workshop is hitting back.

[@CatLadyJude]

Thanks Mouse, subscribed

[@Straeger]

I agree 100% with what u said, they have not only destroyed CS2, but also the entire brand of CS in terms of playercount in general and people's enthusiasm for the brand. I had like 700hrs in CS1, sunk 100 into CS2 when it came out but now I don't want to play any because I can't be bothered to go back to CS1 and start a build knowing CS2 is already out and lost all hope in the devs. I'm sure I'm not the only one like this and its clear by the playercounts. CS1 was getting much higher playercounts throughout the years but now both games combined are a fraction of what CS1 used to get. Corpo greed fucked it, there was a vid explaining why they forced CS2 to come out early due to previous failed games that year from paradox.

[@sirfuttbucker6067]

I have a mid range pc. I understand it's overdue an upgrade, but I can't run a city above 15,000. A game about cities, and I can't get past that? What a joke

[@briansterling5912]

I’ve said it many times but I stand by that they left the Steam Workshop so they could gatekeep content for the express reason to not conflict with the 500 DLCs they obviously have planned.

[@tobiaspott]

Additional though on the layoff situation. Letting people go without them having done anything wrong or even anything within their influence, might be stupid in an additional point. As the industry feeds off the same pool of people working the jobs, what will those people‘s expectation of their next employment be? Will they put their heart and soul into anything if they can expect to be stepped on at any time in the future for a reason nobody let them have their opinion heard on? I bet they will, but there comes the point when even those jobs just become the means to earn money and how does that pair with any product based on a creative process fuelled by the individuals involved. Decisions about creative directions can only be made when there are people to walk in that direction and build a bigger piece together, leave that out and you are left with the hollow, scaffolding, management came up with in a pitch deck.

[@ageoflove1980]

Its quite clear they are just going for the No Mans Sky/Cyberpunk strategy where there are going to be multiple "releases" over the span of years. Its just very common right now to do it this way. They just dont have any incentive to fix things right now because they sold enough for this cycle. This will just simmer for a year or two while they are working on 2.0 in the background. By then they can do a new marketing push with the "the game is good now" thing, and sell more that way. Not saying its consumer friendly by any means, but thats just what this looks like.

[@trissy8820]

The poop rivers arent as consistent and the sewage lakes just don’t hit the same ykno!?

[@darkdavey]

the CEO comes across as very unlikable, but I think the early release can be blamed on Paradox, needed to write off the losses from Lamplighters League. I think the community just wants transparency and Honest Communication. The Modder are actually able to fix stuff because they actually PLAY the game, CO does not

[@Drakkart]

you should get back into CS1 always liked your stuff though not the most regular viewer because well playing on pc but the stuff i saw you did really well on the other hand as a fellow CC i can totally understand a reduced incentive to do so.

[@thegoodboy4699]

the best way i could describe both games is: Cities 1 is like a playground, everything looks colorfull and childish yet fun and isn't difficult Citis 2 is like a Office Jo, have fun playing around with pencils for 200 hours straigh, but not befor you did 200 anoing and boring tasks, like a office its also repetitive, grey and boring basicly everyting is concreet and "realistic" not fun

[@alisacrowder4833]

The game for console was original supposed to come out in October for console but it got pushback to spring time of june of 2024 i pre order the game on sep 1st 2023 as my birthday gift that was just so disappointing.

[@Jonas-tc8qt]

Did you cancel your preorder?

[@PasturePig]

Worst thing for cities skylines 2 for consoles is the recent announcement of Planet Zoo. I can’t wait for that launch and I’ve lost all excitement for cs2

[@Itsatrap365]

Same I can’t wait for planet zoo to come to console at this point I lost all point in CS2.

[@simondavis750]

I got the first game on release and remember a lot of backlash on its unfinished broken condition. It was pretty unplayable and I didn't retry it for years after until I saw CPP video and it looked playable. Since then I have spent a lot of money getting all the "DLC" and sunk millions of hours. I saw this was being released and could not put myself through all that again. It took way too long to get all the "DLC" and curate a great set of mods that made that game a full experience that could be enjoyed for a long time. And I have. I am happy that I decided not to jump over to 2, it seemed I was right not to rush in. After all the attention, money and love sunk into 1, I am almost certain I won't be going through years of building this game up from these bare bones. Especially considering that the company seems to have gone out of their way to implement weird design features (farms and industry just plain suck) and have an obvious set up for "DLC".

[@jimjones9631]

As a Vicky 3 player and fan i feel this so much. Vicky was horrible and only now is it slowly getting playable. its sad because paradox games are one of the best sandboxes for interesting player stories but they have just been dropping the ball across their franchises horrifically

[@tmg7476]

Good rant. The Steam Workshop creators and followers who downloaded their creations told CO what they wanted to see in CS2. CO didn't listen. They built the CS that they couldn't originally, the CS of THEIR dreams, ignoring the wishes of their customers. Bugs can be fixed. But can the vision? Their CEO doesn't think so. Do I really care about dogs? No, would rather have had bikes. Am I going to care about their thoughts? No. I'd rather have better traffic. Utility buildings can be upgraded -- but they are huge and all look the same. Unsupported mods are coming out, but we don't even know if asset creators will easily be able to port their CS assets over or what it takes to create new ones. People don't always buy a better mousetrap -- they buy the mousetrap that they want. Major rule -- Know Your Customers. CO failed to do that. I have created training materials that I have put out for free. And sometimes I cringe when I see how others have modified them. But I have to accept that. I can see CO's hurt feelings. They had a dream 10 years ago that they were not able to realize with the tools at that time. So they have given us that decade old dream. It took them ten years to create their baby but now they have. And now our rejection hurts them. Because with the modding ability they gave us, we took possession of that dream and changed it. The baby grew up. So we feel hurt that they ignored our dreams and they are hurt that we aren't buying into their dream. Bad communications, bad planning, a failure to understand their customers. The bugs hurt, the performance hurt, but the failure goes deeper. And if CO doesn't understand that and can't accept that their baby has grown up and is now different, CS2 won't change and won't get the acceptance it should have gotten.

[@MoveTheMouse]

This ^

[@GeNyaa]

When I have thousands of hours in CS1 and I literally didn't play CS2 for more than 5 hours and was frustrated with the game the whole 5 hours I played it says enough.