Remember When Voyager Turned Paris and Janeway into Salamanders? (Threshold)

Behold the human evolutionary future: giant salamanders!
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[@EeveeFromAlmia]

I've talked about this whole ep with some friends before, and we came up with the headcanon that Q is just terrified of these salamander babies. when he said that he was afraid of what humans would evolve into, he was talking about them.

[@dixiefish0173]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@thegreenmanofnorwich]

I did wonder what the point of the salamanders was. I wondered if they were supposed to have massive mental powers. Not that anything like that was ever mentioned. I also thought it was weird that they'd just leave the hyper evolved babies in an otherwise totally uninterfered with ecosystem.

[@gabrielhawkins-connolly143]

IN dungeons and dragons, a similar creature is called the Aboleth, a salamander thing with MASSIVE psychic powers and a god complex that they... kinda deserve. They are more powerful than a meteor-swarming level 20 wizard, each, and I think that was the kind of... concept idea this had. Something like creatures like the Traveller in TNG, as we see wesley had the capability even at his somewhat-greater-than-human potential, and his ability to control space and time... And I can see that a race of beings like Star Trek Aboleths with craaaaaazy psychic powers that bend the laws of reality would be superior. Like, literally, a thing that the DND counterparts can do is forget about distance, and just freaking open a planar gate to a WHOLE NEW UNIVERSE, or teleport across a galaxy with ease instantly. Nevermind being nigh-invincible from psychic shields and the ability to mess with the passage of time. I think that's where they tried and failed to go. Also anyone notice the axolotal fins on these things?

[@Fuchsfeuer]

but the most important question is what happened to the offspring? Will the descendants eventually conquer and destroy everything and everyone?^^ would be the chance to explain why Q dies! It was the salamanders!!!

[@d36williams]

lol

[@MrDN83]

The most unrealistic thing about this episode is that they didn’t evolve into crabs.

[@Cheezitnator]

Ah yes, the true ultimate life form: ocean spiders.

[@cbhlde]

@@Cheezitnator At the end we will all become the evil shoulder spider, that tries to keep Janeway in check by suggestion to eat Harry Kim. ;)

[@MinscFromBaldursGate92]

@cbhlde For the last time, I am not eating Harry! Not while he is still of use for me.

[@cbhlde]

A little nibble can't hurt?! :)@@MinscFromBaldursGate92

[@monso0n805]

Maybe the next step after crabs are salamanders..

[@LegateGiles]

Tom Paris is the most able person in Star Fleet. Put him and Chief O'Brian on a shuttle craft and they would have made it home from the Delta Quadrant in 10 minutes

[@thomaskirkness-little5809]

Put him and Miles on an asteroid and they would have built a ship, returned home and defeated the Jem'hadar and Borg in one episode.

[@zwordsman]

add in Harry and they wouldn't have the weird small oversights.. Miles and Tom are damn great at their stuff. buutt they both are horribly bad at the smallest details and that's caused their failures in various times. Harry is not stand out amazing. but the guy is amazing at being solid and dotting all the proper things. The three of them could probably have fixed and upgraded the Keeper's slingshot

[@DarthAzabrush]

Put Rom or Nog on the ship and suddenly their tech level jumps to the point that they can take the USS Relativity in a straight fight.

[@poppers7317]

Add Deanna Troy to the mix and the ship gets crashed in no time.

[@julianm3912]

Yea but one of them might be pregnant..LOL

[@noanswer1864]

The "Wake up Lieutenant!" Joke was the only piece of good writing in this episode, and it got me again all these years later. He's not passed out, just near exhaustion, no hypo, no gentle shake of the arm. Just a shout that the captain and audience weren't expecting.

[@jesuszamora6949]

"My dad was a trekkie and wasn't interested in Deep Space Nine." This is such a contradictory statement.

[@0815Horst]

Not at all. A lot Star Trek fans weren't that interested in DS9. The argument was: oh it's not on a ship, but a space station. So boring. Glad it's getting now the recognition it always deserved. It's hands down the best Star Trek series.

[@heidifedor]

Not the best Trek series, but Voyager definitely had the best doctor.

[@STho205]

theLundLs she wasn't the most entertaining or sarcastic witty....but she sure was a MILF.

[@realGBx64]

Cries in DeForest Kelley

[@luxintenebris1776]

Apologize to Bones right now!!

[@MachineWashableKatie]

Voyager had the best neelix

[@AlternativeExplosion]

@@MachineWashableKatie Neelix is the Jar Jar Binks of Star Trek

[@Arrowdodger]

Johnny Cash achieved Warp 10, that's how he'd been everywhere, man.

[@alanpennie8013]

"I fly a starship, across the universe divide."

[@arthas640]

@@alanpennie8013 I would die to see a star trek episode with Johnny Cash as an intergalactic Highwayman

[@alanpennie8013]

@@arthas640 That would be great.

[@GFSan]

@@arthas640 at least we got to see him play a space coyote

[@prophetic0311]

Your joke is bad and you should feel bad.

[@Rhiorrha]

Janeway's thousand-yard stare as she tries to forget she had salamander babies is hilarious...

[@rinck17]

Janeway turned me into a newt! A newt? I got better.

[@CRAZYHORSE19682003]

@J Mireles She looks like one!

[@brianb8060]

Burn her anyway!

[@karenelizabeth1590]

How is the away team so sure they can just leave the salamander kids behind? They have no reason to assume that's OK. It turns out fine for them, but what if it hadn't? Suppose Janeway and Paris became human again and they're "Where are our kids? ...YOU JUST LEFT OUR CHILDREN THERE?! ...You assumed WHAT? Why? They're our BABIES!!!"

[@jayk1203]

100% agree

[@deraltetrekkie6088]

Yeah, obviously they didn't think that. And to be perfectly frank: It's for the better. Not because no one should remember the episode, but because a little thing called "consequences" in a very "one episode"-medium. I mean, something like "continuity" is fine with me, however if you take the idea of "things having consequences" over on Voyager to the logical conclusion... well, it would mean, that when Voyager returns, chances would be that all of the non-main-characters would have to face the music for their actions as the Maquis. Meaning the Cardassians might wanna see them on trial for basically being war criminals, Seven might end up in a nice little lab, where they would conduct experiments on her, since she's a Borg and they are the most feared creatures in the galaxy. So yeah, unless you film the "Destiny"-three-Parter written by David Mack, which more or less exterminates the Borg, that would've gone in a direction, at least, I would have hated. Basically, it would've turned into an early new BSG and albeit I like that show, too, I have to say, I loved Janeways approach to Seven, the more "I don't know if she betrays us, we'll have to trust her" more than the "Obviously she's going to betray us, so we put her in the brig"-approach that Adama had with Sharon.

[@histguy101]

Well, by the time Voyager returned, the Maquis were all dead, and the ones who weren't were vindicated, and the Cardassians were an occupied state. I think seven years of good service would be enough to dismiss any "guilt by association" charges that might be leveled against them.

[@Samael1113]

You're approaching it wrong... Though it's not like Voyager as a show or Janeway as a captain ever cared about the Prime Directive, buuuuuut... They just introduced a new alien lifeform, theoretically with the ability to evolve at incredibly accelerated rates, onto an alien planet. There is a very high chance they just irrevocably altered the ecosystem and evolutionary development and future of that planet, via that one act. It's pretty much the highest, non-treason, crime a Star Fleet Officer can commit.

[@robinchesterfield42]

@@histguy101 Yep and there was even that episode where (like a year late) the news about the Maquis finally hits Voyager and the former Maquis characters are DEVASTATED by it. Be'lanna's reaction especially got me. I love that they actually thought of that, and for a moment, _truly_ integrated their 24th-century timeline shows into one story. So cool.

[@MisterNinten]

"Our crew of space nerds." As much as I like star trek, I have to admit that's very accurate of pretty much every character.

[@paulgibbon5991]

More coffee?

[@edisonlima4647]

I can't even begin to fathom how messed up I would feel if I found out that I had spawned an entirely new amphibious race of irrational beings and that I.had abandoned it in an unmapped planet. Like... would they feel like children? Pets? Like they were even mine? That was messed up!

[@Jiub_SN]

If they didn't remember it happening then the creatures were better off in the wild, if they were sentient then uh... yeah janeways a psycho

[@markuscriticus8278]

3:13 I know next to nothing about science, but I have it from a good source that "multi-spectral engine design" only makes sense assuming their ships are powered by rainbows.

[@90lancaster]

If I was being generous I would suggest it might mean that the energy of the deca-lithium is utilised in more than one outputs simultaneously at different frequencies - it might also be some reference to compensations in the drive and changing it's frequencies in a rotating manner to prevent side effects that were blowing the ship up due to some form of feedback. Though generating such a huge amount of energy seems to me that they'd have issues with running out of fuels before reaching the threshold - so that might be a factor in the multi-frequency design - it might be boot strapping itself up to higher energy levels using the special properties of the deca-lithium and sustaining an impossible reaction rate with less fuel. But without know the exact properties of Deca-lithium I could only speculate as to how. They seemed to be having as much trouble accelerating beyond the particle build up (also a problem with Transwarp in general) and There solution is interesting as the other ways to compensate for Ludicrous speed side effects are quite different in other situations - as are the side effects. I like the subject though as I feel like it's a thread that goes through all the shows which ties them together.

[@christopherwall2121]

"...Which leads to the mental image of the crew shoveling Care Bears into the reactor" -- SF Debris

[@alanbear6505]

@@christopherwall2121 Good Luck Bear's luck just ran out...

[@cameronheaton9900]

Sfdebris?

[@neolexiousneolexian6079]

@@90lancaster Maybe the warp field is akin to a standing wave kind of interference pattern in subspace? And "multi-spectral" means that the interference pattern is generated, tuned, and stabilized using more nuanced component frequencies?

[@LordMayorOfDairyBell]

2 changes that would make the story make more sense. 1) Don't use Paris and Janeway. Use two one time characters. 2) Make the salamander thing seemingly irreversible. Show the crew trying everything they can to fix it, but nothing they try seems to work. Make the remaining things they haven't tried too dangerous or too costly to waste on two crew member. Make that they're rapid breeding is a potential drain on resources. Make it so they are forced to abandon the poor souls on a unknown planet. Boom! Warp 10 is off the table as an option as the cost is not one they're willing to pay. It could also have lead to a much better story, but maybe not.

[@Fuchsfeuer]

I also thought straight away that a red shirt should have been used and that he or she would die as a result. Q could also appear and explain that your mind is still far from understanding such a speed at all and only beings like Q Warp 10 or what it really is are capable of pure teleportation and nothing can be solved with machines and thus one would have set a limit for all living beings. would also explain why beings like Q no longer have physical bodies. Otherwise things like mutations would happen to the bodies and they would eventually die off. To this Q could say that the salamander thing is not an evolution but a reverse evolution or the genes and atoms have changed at such a rate that it will turn the red shirt into a salamander animal and eventually kill it. Q could also answer that you don't even understand what's actually in the apparently empty space of space and it's definitely not empty.

[@germanvisitor2]

3) Don't call it evolution when it is obviously not evolution.

[@NovemberXXVII]

@@germanvisitor2 Well yeah, but then they'd have to figure out what it actually *is*, and that would require even more coffee.

[@R1ckj333]

And add Groppler Zorn to the episode, That would have fixed it.

[@firefly4f4]

Why is Warp 10 even on the table to begin with? There's absolutely no point to occupying every point in the universe. You just need to go faster, period, not infinitely fast. Also, "theoretical impossibility" doesn't mean it might be possible. It means that unless the universe doesn't work the way we understand it (theory) it can't happen (impossible).

[@ralphyetmore]

The "evolution" part is easily the most laughable. First of all, metamorphosis is not a mechanism of evolution. Secondly, the environment he was in was on that ship. Adapting to an environment specifically tailored for humanoids, means... he'd stay humanoid.

[@stargazerspark4499]

id like to think that when you go warp 10 it activated some earlier evolutionary programming that was still preserved in the human genome, possible when you consider humans share 90+% of our DNA with many other creatures, maybe the spacetime distortion tachyon technobabble screws up gene expression by messing with regulator proteins...or maybe its just weak writing ;-)

[@Tareltonlives]

It's almost as ridiculous as that TNG episode where Troi becomes a lizard and Barclay becomes a spider as the crew "de-evolves"

[@Tareltonlives]

@El-ahrairah Metamorphosis is a stage in the adult development of invertebrates. It's basically a very dramatic way to grow up. Evolution is a process where specific mutations are selected on in each generation. Evolution is generational, metamorphosis happens in a lifetime. Most mutations happen during mitosis of gametes, and selection merely promotes some mutations over others.

[@Person01234]

@El-ahrairah He's saying that evolution, contrary to the picture painted by say, creationists, does not function by metamorphosis. You aren't one creature, then suddenly become another because you "evolved". Also, P Sher doesn't make any sense, to get to that, one would have to assume that there was some pre-determined destination for evolution, which there simply isn't. The environment is the ONLY thing that matters in determining where evolution goes. When humans live in an environment specifically designed for their biology, evolution wouldn't change them into salamanders, at all. Changing one creature into another arbitrary creature designed for some swamp planet is not evolution, there's no "evolutionary code" in the human genome.

[@handsomebrick]

@@Person01234 Or to put it simply, evolution is not something that happens to individuals.

[@xen0bia]

The Doc and 7-of-9 were the 2 best things about this show.

[@deraltetrekkie6088]

Well there is B'elanna and Harry Kim, too. And Janeway, when she's not voiced by Lupa or SFDebris, has some really nice moments. Basically I liked that crew - even Neelix.

[@cwc5085]

Turning into an Axolotl is absolutely an improvement

[@CaptRobertApril]

A couple of "inside baseball" bit regarding this episode: 1) Back when TNG was developed, Gene Roddenberry ordered that the warp speed scale be redone, making Warp 10 the ultimate speed barrier that can't be broken (the rationale being that the newer ships were so much faster than the old junk heaps of Kirk's day that to avoid references to ship's going warp 15 or so, just change the scale). 2) The justification for that warp ten limit is from the writer's tech manual (yeah, they had one) and was a bit of a reference to the Infinite Improbability Drive from "The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy", and as such, was actually a bit of a joke. Sadly, Brannon Braga took it seriously and this episode was the result.

[@mikeweber3685]

I'm not sure of the timeline, but I first heard of the warp 10 limit in the book 𝑉𝑎𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑡𝑡𝑎 which lamely ended with someone trying to go warp 10 and being stuck in time going nowhere.

[@QuarkGamingLLC]

Star Trek really isn’t the franchise where you can make up something technical as a joke and have it stay a joke. It works in Hitchhikers because… well it’s Hitchhikers. Star Trek ain’t a goofy little adventure through the universe, no matter what the new writers try to do with the new shows

[@BulletTooth504]

The salamander thing would have made more sense if they were de-evolving.

[@telofy]

Millions of years from now some giant salamanders will have a laugh at anyone who has had a laugh at the expense of this episode! ;-)

[@Shiirow]

Confirmed : Janeway wants that Paris D. Thank you Threshold.

[@robinchesterfield42]

I know, right? I always wondered why, after that, the two of them didn't start kind of..."SAY...." looking at each other and, considering it... Then again maybe Salamander Paris was just that _bad_ at it. XD

[@jansenart0]

Turns out those amphibians they found were just random creatures seeded with human DNA by the hyperevolved Janeway/Paris, who escaped to later evolve into the first Qs.

[@jcdenton2187]

That somehow sounds less ridiculous than the actual episode and I kinda like it. Not that I would want that to be the case. Heck no.

[@christasaurusrex8078]

So someone on the writing team saw The Fly and were like "Yeah, lets do that. Only dumber."

[@nd9814]

C Matthews that is astute analysis. Early Voyager was ironically great and later Voyager (once Seven comes on) is actually pretty good sans a few episodes

[@senorpepper3405]

janeway was thicc

[@Valdagast]

Don't worry about not having any scientific credentials. Neither did anyone on this show.

[@batmanlaughed800]

So, if he occupied every point in the universe simultaneously then he’s dead because he’s at the heart of a black hole, the center of a planet, and the heart of a sun.

[@Isolder74]

don't worry that's what sfdebris is for he has that covered.

[@cameronpattie2773]

@@batmanlaughed800 And inside every solid object in the universe.

[@TroutBoneless]

oh we wrote ourselves into a corner? D E F L E C T O R D I S H T I M E

[@thegreenmanofnorwich]

Even my 13 year old self saw problems in the physics and biology. I was pretty good at both, but I was just a kid who at the time wasn't interested in either. That's a pretty piss poor standard of writing when a 13 year old can tell you it's bullshit.

[@LaNoLaCola]

At least the threshold of ruining the caber toss won't be crossed

[@FuugaNatsu]

DINNAE LIGHT THA CANDERR!

[@robinchesterfield42]

Well I mean, THAT would just be criminal. Although, really, as someone said on the comments for "Sub Rosa"...wouldn't you be USED to rain on a "Scottish" colony and know how to deal with it? Seriously! Throw your damn caber into the mud like a true Scots...person and shut up. :P

[@Johnsilver3000]

They... They evolved into giant Axolotls O.o. I'm not even kidding. Those are literally what they are designed as...

[@Eidlones]

I think the important thing to take away from this episode, is that Chakotay's people have a saying.

[@KirkWilliamsIsBroken]

I laugh every time Harry says "Yes!

[@d10Dave]

"A cuchi moya, am I right, captain?" That line got me laughing so hard, I've been bothering my wife with that line to the point she's annoyed.

[@fullmoon1072]

It’s not hard for men to annoy their wives

[@snukastyle]

In the novel version of Voyager's pilot, "Caretaker", Janeway first meets Paris at a penal colony. There's a good paragraph of her lusting over him (Paris being all muscular and sweaty from hard labor). Oh, yeah. She initiated. She'd been waiting.

[@danielyeshe]

You are kidding? Please be kidding.

[@MinscFromBaldursGate92]

ᕦ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)ᕤ

[@tomdemongod]

Your jayneway impression is A+

[@nohomers100]

Remember Neelix was supposed to be the "breakout" character

[@tentringer4065]

So was Jar Jar Binks.

[@BrettCaron]

Neelix is the key to all this. Because he's a funnier character than we've ever had before

[@maxacorn]

the only thing that breaks out is me in hives when neelix cooks.......um...."food".

[@Canadamus_Prime]

If I'm not mistaken, this episode was so bad that it was officially declared non-canon.

[@sanityisrelative]

I remember watching the commentary, with the writers I think, and they apologized for the episode's existence.

[@axenledgie1423]

The Warp 10 barrier concept is pretty cool, but the weird fast evolution thing is absolutely trash

[@handsomebrick]

It's all non-canon now anyway.

[@KhaosAdmiral]

@@sanityisrelative yeah Brennan Braga is utterly embarrassed by writing this episode and considered it a real dud.

[@kamilgregor]

Not any more, thanks to Lower Decks

[@Moonbeam143]

"Dark Matter Nebula" I just found the best band name ever.

[@JamesMC04]

Best Boy Band evah = Tom Paris and the Salamanders.

[@AmayaUsagiTenshi]

YES!

[@anihtgenga4096]

How 'bout "Hairy Quim & the Depilatories"?

[@ArmagideonTime]

Voyager is my fave Star Trek. Threshold is awful. Yet not only did you have me laughing so much I could hardly breathe, you still somehow treated it with respect in the end. THAT is good writing. Thank you so much!!

[@johnbrownlee5419]

Whenever Voyager comes on in my presence, it is -always- this episode.

[@Scsigs]

I like how this video feels like if SF Debris got drunk & joined the MST3K team, thus making this more entertaining than his own review.

[@Geospasmic]

The "shuttlecraft getting pooped out" thing was stupid and juvenile and I've been giggling about it for the last ten minutes.

[@Whiskey_in_November]

I honestly thought this ep was a fever dream

[@RedDragonM1]

"Tell Harry...I never really liked him." Poor Dumb Harry....

[@ginsengaddict]

Why hello there, fellow SFdebris fan :P

[@quincyrich5817]

yesss

[@thespecialneedsgroup]

I absolutely love that Allison and Chuck (SF Debris) seem to have independently come to the same conclusions about Janeway. To the point that they've both given her nearly the same personality.

[@craigusselman546]

@@quincyrich5817 YISSSSS

[@maxacorn]

true but......................she still should've eaten harry.

[@TwoWholeWorms]

No joke, this is by far and away my favourite episode of Voyager. It goes so far beyond the boundaries of fucking stupid that it comes out the other side as a pure nugget of golden genius. xD

[@matthancox7608]

You know how Allison feels about a character when she gives them the Halliwell voice. Hands down my favourite Allison voice.

[@CthulhuianBunny]

I love the look on Mulgrew's face at 11:46. That "Yeah, I'm not buying this bullshit, tacked-on ending for a second..." look is priceless!

[@chrissgchriss]

I wanna know what happened to the children salamanders. They are more advanced than us and would have cooler ships etc.

[@aarongreenfield9038]

The episode still reached a higher rank than Harry kim.

[@adamlytle2615]

Fun Fact with no bearing on this video: There was pretty decent* show called Threshold, starring Carla Gugino, Peter Dinklage and Mr. Data himself, Brent Spiner. It only lasted half a season or something. *As I recall anyway. It's been like 13 years.

[@TheLoverboyz901]

My dad is a Trekkie too! I remember him watching The Next Generation all the time. He still does.

[@phlojem285]

Watching this made me think of a cosmic horror episode, where the intro is more or less the same, but when they find Paris, they realize it's been so much longer for him. Like, months maybe, being everywhere at once. Not just in the vacuum of space, but in the ship. In every ship. In every system, in every living thing in every system. And witnessing all of this simultaneously was too much for his brain to handle. But what he could handle, what he could understand, is that something else existed there. Something that watched. Something that scared Paris more than the thought of spending eternity being everywhere and not knowing how his mind would survive that I so wish this happened, maybe with Paris freaking out and trying to shoot his own shadow with a phaser or something, and having to be restrained with no one believing him, except the Doctor after looking at a continual brain scan or something. And then, in the climax, after even the doctor starts to think they're just hallucinations, Paris sees the thing hovering over him, inches away. He cries for help, and people come rushing but the entity sent them away and back to wherever they came from with similar and very minor cases of whatever the Doc saw in Paris. Then, when the Entity tries to touch Paris, it almost tears his mind apart. The Doctor, who was scanning his brain saw that the entity was doing something similar, but by actually entering it on the molecular level and causing severe damage and pain. After that, the Doctor sees a way to reverse the energy currant that was being forced into Paris's brain or something and scares the Entity off This probably sounds like a shitty fan fic, but this is just like, off the top of my head at 2 am after watching this video

[@Askeletontrappedinamanbody]

"My dad was a trekkie so I grew up watching V O Y A G E R" This doesn't compute.

[@crazydud3380]

Yeah, preferring Voyager to DS9 is strange to me. I mean I guess Voyager had more action overall, but DS9 had the most thematic and emotional depth of any Trek show.

[@STho205]

Means it was on when she was a kid and her Dad was a Trekkie so he watched anything Trek no matter how bad it was. Thus CBS/Paramount knew they had a HipnoToad franchise. This would have made a great Rick and Morty. Oh yeah, it did. It made at least the, and apparently the fourth cronenberg episode premieres next month.

[@mtr801]

@@crazydud3380 DS9 had way more action, escpecially the last two seasons.

[@vamp_bat_chomp]

While I'm personally with you on this one, some trekkies view the darker ds9 as a betrayal to the utopian idealism of star trek. For the people who like ds9 it's often a favorite (it is mine), but some people think it doesn't fit. It's also the one I'll suggest to break non trekkies into star trek.

[@robertwelch2843]

Voyager was the first series dad had me watch. It's much more child friendly for a 9 yr old

[@Nytemare2all]

Great review! I like how both Lupa and SfDebris have the same idea and voice for Janeway.

[@AllisonPregler]

She is sort of a nasally villain in the canon of the show.

[@Bugtoy]

that brundletom line is SO underappreciated

[@worm193]

As someone who actually really loves voyager (pls don’t come for me) this is the funniest thing I’ve watched

[@SnowGoosePower]

That's like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles for me. My parents insist that I loved that show, I remember watching it, have all of the toys, Halloween costumes, VHS', etc, but all that sticks with me is the second live action movie where I was mad that Shredder died when the roof caved in on him. I remember nothing else at all.

[@berpipo]

Well, whatever is your opinion on this episode and on voyager as whole, i think we can all agree on one thing. We need more Cofee.

[@Iamafishproductions]

Damn good coffee.

[@amberace]

Perhaps Voyager is really about Janeway's neverending search for coffee

[@Longshot441]

I thought it was for real plot

[@pluto8404]

Tea. Earl grey. hot.

[@Rognik]

I hear there's coffee in that nearby nebula...

[@NightridewithNikki]

[Scientist talks about science and Neelix “helps”] best caption ever.

[@RettMikhal]

This episode is so obviously a dream. I've had more random scenes of nonsense dreams that could have been more canon than this.

[@jordang7479]

I'm taking an anthropology class and I can't stop myself from writing this... I'm sorry but the need is too strong..I can't... Fiiiight iiiitttt!! Actually,asingleorganismcan'tevolveitcanonlymutateoraddaptforittobeevolutionmultipleorganismsmustmakethesamechangesovertime!!. Damn it. I'm.. Just...gonna head out.

[@hollyhobgoblin8838]

I was an Anthropology major as an undergrad, so I'm right there with you, bud. Apparently, our DNA can predict what our descendants will look like millions of years from now and it just needs to be """sped up""" to reveal it! It must be psychic DNA!

[@TheSeptet]

Alright, but what about Pokemon? Checkmate, anthropologists!

[@jordang7479]

Well played, TheSeptet. Well played

[@simonwinn8757]

I could techno-bubble that he was not undergoing evolution and say his DNA was changed during the warp 10 flight, as he was everywhere at the same time and would have picked up new DNA in the process. Explaining how the body replaced the cells and didn't kill him would be much harder.

[@thespecialneedsgroup]

I drove me nuts, too. And I was an _English_ major.

[@Alsmiff]

“Big green fart-hole” is pure poetry.

[@josephyoung6749]

I have a similar experience of barely remembering seeing Voyager premiere on TV, but then going back and seeing the full series later in life. The one episode I have a vivid memory of from back then was the really depressing one where the whole ship melts and turns out to be a copy of the original ship.

[@d36williams]

one of the best episodes, thats the stuff that made Voyager different from other ST series

[@ZekeStaright]

Kinda reminds me of Genesis from TNG where the crew de-evolved into different creatures.

[@merchantfan]

Also a stupid episode. Spot devolves into an iguana.

[@LokiDuck]

That episode is actually worse in my opinion just because it actually affected the entire crew instead of just two people and yet, everyone went back to normal right after like nothing happened. Seriously how does someone go back to a normal life after they de-evolved and had to survive as other members of the crew tried to eat/mate with them??? You'd think at least they'd need therapy?

[@robinchesterfield42]

@@LokiDuck There doesn't EXIST the kind of therapy that like, all the Trek characters from every series would need by the end of their respective shows. And they'd need it, like, 24/7. It's kind of amazing that Starfleet officers only snap and become crazy dictators SOMEtimes...

[@albertschoise8091]

@@merchantfan so? Couldn't Vulkans come from iguana like creatures?

[@merchantfan]

@@albertschoise8091 The *cat* devolved into an iguana. Just a regular cat

[@sinicalypse]

And holy shit, I never thought of the thing where they could use this transwarp to get home and have the doctor simply turn everyone back from lizards once they get there. Good call, cannon!

[@thomaskirkness-little5809]

There's so much wrong with Threshold. How do you navigate at infinite velocity? If you finish exactly where you started then what's the point? If the drive works and the Doctor can return you to normal just like that why didn't they use it?

[@magister343]

It reminds me of one of the most plausible real world theories for how a warp drive could work, which would allow faster than light travel but only on a round trip with no way to steer or stop until you return to the starting point.

[@james5460]

I laughed so much when I saw the salamanders. If that's where evolution is taking us, we better stop that crap right now!

[@dr.johna.zoidberg5907]

Your janeway voice is hilarious

[@lisazander1720]

I love that my Star Trek Fan family check out so much from this episode/season/show that all we really remember and got pissed off about in this episode is that they left their children on the planet. When needing to remind my mother of this episode that's all I have to say to her and she goes into a rant.

[@mastermarkus5307]

This episode is one that I keep hearing about vaguely, thinking "Oh, bullshit", then getting shocked that it exists.

[@devonstart2758]

the doctor was the best part of that show. any doctor heavy episodes are great solely because he is such a great actor.

[@Lexi_Zone]

Fun fact: using the 'warp scale' from _The_ _Next_ _Generation_ and onward, no one ever does reach/surpass warp 10. Even Voyager being brought to the Delta Quadrant isn't an example of reaching warp 10--it's more like warp 9.999999999 (or 583,821,399,223 times the speed of light). Warp 10 was meant to be mathematically impossible, not just 'theoretically' impossible, but Voyager's writing staff didn't seem to understand that concept, and so we get a shuttle that can somehow accelerate from around 3800 times to speed of light to 'infinity times the speed of light', skipping over the infinite number of other possible speeds in between. Warp 9.999999 would still have gotten you home in less than a day, guys... You didn't have to go 'infinite speed' and become lizards. Also, a lot of people say that while evolution doesn't have an end goal, it does cause the creature to adapt to its environment. That's a liiittle bit of an oversimplification. The mutations that lead to evolution (which occur between generations rather than actively in an individual, but still) _are_ random, and can cause changes that are actually bad for the species' current environment. The trick is that when this happens, the mutation will probably die before it can reproduce, and thus that change is filtered out of the gene pool; at the same time, the good changes help the individual thrive, reproduce, and pass its new advantage down to its children. Changes that are neither good nor bad in the present environment can hang around uselessly be chance. Long story short, the mutations are completely random, but the environment chooses which ones stick around. With that in mind, Tom mutating into something that can no longer live in the same environment as humans isn't really wrong...but it also isn't 'evolution' since it's not happening between generations.

[@HollywoodLego]

"Listen. I was once transformed into a salamander. Nothing can be as difficult as that." Janeway in Dal's body.

[@ShamrockParticle]

6:52 it wasn't warp 10 that mutated Paris. It was Neelix's coffee that really turned him into a space lizard and not the DNA discombobubabble. That explains why they couldn't have the whole ship do warp 10 and back. A few dialogue changes would turn a pile of mush into a different pile of mush as Neelix mutinies! 11:27 ROTFL 12:24 really, Tom kidnaps Janeway but it's Janeway initiates mating but doesn't eat him afterward with BBQ sauce?!

[@christopherwall2121]

"The ship is MINE now! Eh eh eh!"

[@Allangulon]

That's absolutely and patently ridiculous! Where would Janeway Salamander get sauce?

[@Buckdawg]

Your videos are killing me. Whoever's idea it was to put that dramatic pause in at 8:55 is a GENIUS

[@marcushead9985]

Absolutely hilarious review. I think the writer stated the purpose of Paris and Janeway turning into salamanders was an attempt to demonstrate how evolution doesn't necessarily involve what we would think of as progress? But then why is generating mutations that aren't beneficial to the situation he's in? And even better than just not being mentioned again, Threshold is literally treated as not being in canon by later episodes. Paris specifically says in a later ep "I've never been in transwarp."

[@Trevin_Taylor]

Marcus Head maybe that crew was supposed to be the class Y planet copy crew? Like, the demon planet copies went to trans warp, not the “real” ones? I know we’re meant to be able to differentiate between them by the pips on Paris’ neck as we’re meant to believe copy Paris wasn’t demoted, but how do we know he wasn’t demoted then promoted again like real Paris? Unless this episode happens after the copy ship dissolved which would destroy my entire argument. At least I’m trying dammit; That’s more than the writers can say about Janeway. Is it every even numbered episode she threatens to self destruct the ship at the drop of a hat and odd episodes where she’ll cross any line to keep the ship intact? Or is it the other way around? Edit: considering this is season 2, I doubt they’d been to the demon planet yet. Shit.

[@planescaped]

God... voyager had some of the best Trek episodes of all time, and yet so many of the worst as well...

[@WTFisTingispingis]

Marcus Head Wait I'm confused. Isn't this the OPPOSITE of evolution? I mean if they were evolved they'd probably be more like amorphous blobs with advanced mental capability.

[@Trevin_Taylor]

AtticWarrior1994 that was the point. “It’s not what you’d expect” etc, etc. They were probably super smart psychic lizards.

[@hollyhobgoblin8838]

No, evolution in the scientific sense just means change. Like Marcus Head said, species change in order to be better adapted to whatever situation they find themselves in, which is why you sometimes have species that give up abilities they used to have such as cave-dwelling species who give up their ability to see because they no longer need it in their particular habitat. This, of course, is at odds with the explanation given within the episode's plot, which is that humanity apparently has a single predetermined genetic path and not the infinitely branching tree of possibilities that looking into humanity's future would realistically be. Sooooo, I'd say that the writers pretty much shot themselves in the foot if they were trying to teach the audience a damn thing about science lol.

[@Jennithebaker]

I don't know why I haven't watched this sooner😂 My ex husband was a big star trek fan... He also once told me, very casually that he "wasn't sure he believed in evolution" 😂😂😂

[@mastermarkus5307]

Ah, maybe it was because he got all his evolution information from Star Trek? Lol.

[@Brando64]

So Tom's shuttlecraft becomes the Starship Heart of Gold for a few minutes (sigh)

[@montyr2083]

I was looking for this comment, and now I found it, and am greatly pleased. Watching this episode when it aired, some friends and I essentially had a race to see who could remember the phrase "Infinite Improbability Drive" the fastest...

[@robinchesterfield42]

YES! Oh, my god. Actually, you know what the problem was, though? TEA! They should've used a hot cup of _tea_ , but instead they had coffee! Rookie mistake! If this had happened on Picard's Enterprise it wouldn't've involved so much stupid. Sure, Paris might've turned into a penguin for a while, but it's easier to get better from that.

[@Tareltonlives]

You know what the next Star Trek captain should be? A giant salamander.

[@Tareltonlives]

@Darth Revan I'd totally watch that episode

[@Tareltonlives]

@Darth Revan Like Lower Decks is awesome because it just goes with it. "Hey, this is just like that stupid episode from an earlier series?" "Let's do it up to 11 and make it a joke!"

[@TheJazNetwork]

Allison, you have ruined Voyager for me because whenever I watch an episode now, all I can hear is Janeway telling everyone that they're on report! Hahaa, I love these Trek videos!

[@jessesaunders7043]

Seriously bless McNeal for actually trying here

[@SC-mq1eh]

I'm amazed you were able to find a nugget at all in this salamander stew!!!

[@mathieuleader8601]

Nobody will catch Voyager once it shifts into MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE!

[@tomdemongod]

Happy threshold day!

[@iangraham9988]

I love how your Janeway sounds like she could be Baywatch Stephanie and Caroline’s mother

[@kahldrialeighsun1208]

Sniffs...Voyager had the first female captain, and my little heart felt like anything was possible. I suppose I will always see it with rose-colored glasses, but when I've had a hard day I put Voyager on and Captain Janeway is like the mom I never had. This video wasn't meant for me. I wish they made plushies of Nelix, like they did Flotter for Naomi. I love all the Treks, but Voyager and TNG will always hold a special place in my heart.

[@brianbethea3069]

Voyager is great, no need to feel bad about that.

[@AnArchyRulzz]

I look at it as comfort food. It isn't the most nutritious or healthy, but if it makes you feel good, have at it.

[@jesuszamora6949]

@@brianbethea3069 I was about to say, any series that lasts seven seasons is going to have some shit episodes.

[@Spacegoat92]

I laughed my ass off at the Acoochy moya comment!! I thought only my family paid out on that hahahaha

[@miscellaneousshadow7452]

This was my first episode of Voyager. I don't know why I watched another honestly.

[@TheNightmareMan]

So when Janeway refuses to sacrifice Tom's life its a bad thing, but when Janeway sacrifices Tuvix's life is also a bad thing, so would it then be a good thing if she just sat there and said duh while drooling uncontrolably.

[@galexeqe]

"More coffee?" I could never wrap my head around the techno-babel

[@waynefrazee8798]

You are so funny! Thank you for this episode breakdown, your insights were good and very entertaining.

[@AllisonPregler]

Thank you!

[@SnakeRoadComicsOfficial3677]

Wait given Paris was already in the process of changing when he did the warp 10 with Janeway wouldn't he change even more becoming a different form of life than what Janeway turned into

[@antwan1357]

I remember this episode reminding me of the movie The Fly. I expected a transporter accident turning Tom Paris into a monstrous mutant was let down by the amphibious harmless creatures.

[@dunes8817]

Wait. How did they know those salamanders were Janeway and Paris specifically?

[@preciousinfinity]

Magic and DNA, my friend, magic and DNA...

[@mtr801]

Tricorder

[@paladinboyd1228]

michael801, So magic?

[@shepja87]

RDM is a fine actor, like so many in Voyager he didn't get many chances to shine, especially in later series when a lot of the heavy character drama and development was reserved for Janeway and Seven, and a lot of the earlier series he was just a quip machine at the helm and would sigh laugh before saying "aye captain".

[@90lancaster]

The twits who made Voyager were quite open in that the idea of Seven was sex appeal and a hope to appeal to a different demographic as well as a desire to go mainstream. But Jeri Ryan is actually not to bad of an actor so I think she quickly transcended any desire to put her in that box. People liked writing for her - she was sleeping with one of the bosses and so - well what with the ratings going up when Seven was the Focus and down when Chakotay was - I guess they were on the right track - as she did have a appeal on a variety of levels beyond sex appeal. (sort of like Emma Peel in the 1960's UK TV series the Avengers - she's supposed to have sex appeal (and she sure does) but she's way more than just that). Besides it does happen the other way too - Like Adrian Paul was hired for the Highlander TV show as he was handsome as much as his acting - and you can see the trend is pretty obviously applied to males and females by watching soap operas or certain action drama's with a (mostly hot) cast like Hawaii Five O. Cylon 6 was also obviously designed to make grown men cry - but again she's more than that she's also menacing, creepy and occasionally funny in a dark way. So seven was cynical - yeah sure but only because of the catsuits really otherwise I don't think she was.

[@robinchesterfield42]

Yes, totally! To all of that. Seven turned out to be weirdly like...legit awesome, and that episode where she's reliving all the different people she's assimilated was like a sudden "Whoah, she can actually ACT?!" And the Emma Peel thing...actually, funny you say that. You know who kinda reminds me of Seven? Mrs. Peel's PREDECESSOR, Cathy Gale. Deadpan, hot _blonde_ chick in tight catsuits with ZERO tolerance for bullshit. Her whole...way of talking, demeanor, would totally work for a Borg or Vulcan, I swear. She would absolutely react to Satan's Robot by just calmly walking up and ripping out its wires. (and while we're on the Avengers, the actress who played the THIRD lady sidekick, Tara King, was actually _on_ Star Trek. She played a Cardassian Gul on Next Gen. So that's cool. :))

[@vermis8344]

I'm going to agree that Jeri Ryan is a capable actor (that episode that Robin mentioned) but I'll say they hardly gave her the opportunity in the show. She was poured into that catsuit but just stands around talking in a monotone like someone pissed in her cornflakes. It was Data all over again, except with a permanently grumpy demeanour and a resistance to exploring anything like a human personality. Data, but easier to look at and harder to listen to. Or maybe I should say, the show already had a Tuvok, they didn't need another. What made it worse was that with her inclusion, the show - clunky as it was - rapidly slid away from 'Star Trek: Voyager' and towards 'Seven and Friends'. I'm currently rewatching the series for the first time since it first aired, as repeats are shown here in the UK, and it feels like every other episode is a Seven episode, or else highlights just how fantastic and magical she is as she stands there and glowers. It feels like a run-up for Star Trek Discovery...

[@wallyman292]

IIRC, Ms. Ryan divorced her husband around this time (he was a politician in IL, I think) because he was wanting her to take part in group sex and wife swapping and the like.

[@nomduclavier]

NOT HOW EVOLUTION WORKS UGVJFFJKJU

[@grishguillotine43]

i was looking up the dangers of transwarp and wound up here...found exactly what i was looking for

[@tforrest1010]

Having just watched this episode and stumbling on your channel, I just want to say thank you from the bottom of my heart.

[@jameshandshoe]

Even though Threshold is the worst episode of Voyager, I still don't mind it. Overall, still my favorite Star Trek series. At it's best, Voyager gave me the most enjoyment out of all of Trek (Deep Space 9 coming second).

[@gwynethh9524]

I unironically love Voyager, I ironically love this episode, and I definitely love this video

[@mcgruder22]

I liked Nelix, too. To this day every time I see that actor I'm like "Oh, hey, it's Nelix!"

[@racookster]

This episode is infamous. I had heard about it, but had never even seen a clip from it. However, now that I've seen the salamanders, I've gotta say, I think they're pretty good! They make no sense, but they're still well-made rubber suits.

[@171QA]

Please don't tease us with a Baywatching version of Star Trek: VOY. XD