Moving Conferences Will Hurt Your Team

[@manzac112]

I wish conferences made sense again and it's also screwing over other sports at times. After 5 or 10 years, I hope this super conference idea fails.

[@komodocoon4735]

Hater ass 😂

[@cmd31220]

The thing is, they inevitably WILL fail, but not for the reasons you want them to and the result will be even worse. The realignments will gut smaller sports, but the schools don't care because that's just not where the money is. Unless you're a Kansas or Duke, not even basketball comes anywhere close to the money football brings in. However with NIL being what it is the small football schools will also start losing out. Like, how is Vanderbilt going to compete with Alabama after not being able to for 50 years and now having to share with Texas and Oklahoma? They just can't, and the big schools know it. When these new media deals need renegotiating in 10 years, the blue chip programs will look at all the ratings they bring in and start asking why they need to share. Why should Ohio State and Purdue make the same? Why should Oklahoma have to share with Vanderbilt? Why should Clemson have to give their hard-earned money to Boston College? And more importantly, why should any of them have to share with the NCAA? And the solution is obvious.....DOUBLE DOWN on the super conference and make their own league. Just the major programs. Nothing but the elites. Top 10 matchups every week. Think what the super league idea was in soccer if you know that. Their own league of the top 20-30 blue chip programs, separate from the NCAA, that acts more like the NFL than it does the rest of college football. The media deal would be enormous and the fans of these schools would eat it up in the beginning. I think that's where this is all headed

[@manzac112]

@@cmd31220 And you knew how football/soccer fans, as an Arsenal fan myself, rioted when the Super League was trying to form. Because the smaller teams were just as important to the community and region as the bigger ones. If that's what they're trying to do in college football then I can't support that. And there's a reason why when two big brands coming together for one game were so important: Because they rarely happen and they feel like a once-in-a-lifetime moment, case in point Georgia vs Oklahoma.

[@cmd31220]

@@manzac112 I agree, but I feel like it's just different in america. The attitude toward the doormats isn't the same and I just feel like the money would be too much to ignore. Besides, with NIL existing as it does now it feels like college football become a pro sport is an inevitability. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to make a deal with the NFL to be like a feeder league where every pro team has a college affiliate like the AHL in hockey or the minor leagues in baseball

[@manzac112]

@@cmd31220 I am from the United States; so, I am disappointed on how we're not fighting back against that. I am also very peeved that the NFL doesn't want to have minor leagues for some reason or put some investment into the minor pro leagues in American football already in place. It's like "making sense" is the worst thing that they can do.

[@CollinMiller-sq6tx]

Nebraska fan. In my heart I hope eventually these super conferences fall apart and we go back to regional conferences

[@tylerbrown2700]

It's interesting the video mentioned a "give a dam" factor. It seems like Nebraska really doesn't like Iowa. That is a strong rivalry. I'm not sure what happened after Nebraska's Big Ten Championship game to become a program that hasn't made bowl games like they used to.

[@EzraChance]

I think it's more likely the FBS gets split into two or three different divisions. G5 schools, mid-P4, and upper P4.

[@JPer811]

It isn’t going to happen. It’s going to expand even further and it will get worse

[@ThrowBackFrog]

Good point! However, outside Iowa...does Neb really care about playing Maryland & Northwestern? @@tylerbrown2700

[@tylerbrown2700]

@@ThrowBackFrog Fair point. Heros game was a more manufactured rivalry by the conference as well. Oklahoma was probably a bigger rival than Iowa.

[@PTFVBVB]

As an Oregon State fan all I can hope for is the effects of time zones to be as anticipated

[@djLagwayEnjoyer]

Get ready to learn sun belt buddy

[@TheBruins108]

Again what choice did UCLA and $C have?

[@reagancowman8797]

@@TheBruins108 What do you mean what choice did they have? They're the cause of all this. If they held on instead of leaving the pac 12 early I think they would have gotten a reasonable tv deal and they wouldn't have gone under.

[@papajohncena2516]

Schools are about to realize that when everyone is a conference is a “title contender” no one is.

[@Bdon-tf2]

Syndrome moment

[@Nikkeels]

Pac 12 learned this the hard way

[@PandaFan2443]

Well, 1 or 2 of them may be

[@Ladnar_von_Boshaft]

When the conference is stacked, there will likely be more 1 & 2 loss conference winners

[@ZeusAmun-pt9dc]

It's like people forgot how a conference is supposed to work. You are supposed to have two/three teams at the top always in contention for the conference championship followed by a second tier of teams that hover right below them who are contenders and occasionally win it all followed by middle of the pack schools and bottom feeders. Now while they can move up and down these levels over time this structure is what helps your team. Trying to put all the best teams together all together will make them all mediocre.

[@fuckcensorship69]

I learned this on NCAA13

[@GR-bn3xj]

A lot of that is true. Conferences that have two elite teams are considered better than a conference that has no elite teams but is good top to bottom. I've never really agreed with it completely, but it's the way they are judged. I wouldn't say having two elite teams is the way it's supposed to be, but more like the way it is. The school's at the top of course like this, As it keeps them at the top. Fans of schools that aren't at the top at least one a path to the top. They don't wanna be forever stuck in the middle. Unfortunately for them, NIL In the transfer portal has probably doomed any team that isn't elite to staying out of that category, unless they get some deep pockets that can pay. Gone are the days of finding a great coach and creating a culture. It's just about the biggest checkbook for so.many players.

[@larryleach4950]

They can’t all be top teams/football schools if they are all in the same conference or two.

[@ZeusAmun-pt9dc]

@@larryleach4950 that's my point. These teams are not going to be good teams anymore they will start having 6-6 to 8-4 seasons across the board with one team maybe going undefeated. 130 teams across a vast expanse shouldn't be placed into a couple of conferences when we already had a perfect system.

[@showtimebruin7821]

The best conference would be one where the best team beats everyone, second best beats everyone but the best, third best beats everyone but the top 2 and so forth.

[@zoam7881]

There is actually a lot of traditional rivalry between the Pac-12 and Big Ten due to the Rose Bowl.

[@alexcuevas5633]

But that is just one game. that's not justifiable for the West Coast teams to move

[@zoam7881]

@@alexcuevas5633 I wish it didn't happen, but it did. Of the other power conferences, it makes the most sense.

[@Megaalith]

@@zoam7881 Makes a lot more sense than Cal and Stanford in ACC.

[@sammyrhoads265]

I’m glad I’m in the MAC. My broncos are chilling out and we know nothing is gonna change

[@targettoad691]

but what if Bethune Cookman gets bored and hops up like UCF did?

[@kingskylord6099]

@@targettoad691 MAC*, not MEAC. And several HBCU's (including Bethune-Cookman) moved from the MEAC to the SWAC and CAA

[@Qball42]

Yes, I love the Mac for that reason. I hope that the Mountain West follows suit, but there are a couple schools in the conference that could really ruin things.

[@kghostthegreat]

Yeah if Buffalo could simply just figure out how to run a D1 program, they might as well be D3…

[@TheChrismeg34]

The Mac produces nfl talent and geographically makes sense. It's not going anywhere

[@wvu05]

My alma mater really didn't have much of a choice in the matter. After Pitt left for the ACC, it became obvious that the Big East was dying as a football conference, and WVU was looking for a lifeboat. Unfortunately, that lifeboat was so far away that you couldn't get much regional coverage, so only getting to see them get beat up by the big boys dampened a lot of the enthusiasm.

[@abhijaynmbnvbcv]

When my college Missouri moved to the SEC, we knew it would be tough. But we knew that we could recruit better in the SEC and compete. Thier first year in the SEC in 2012 they went 5-7. But in 2013 and 2014, they made it to the SEC championship game. Since then they've recruited better, and are now even better that ever before.

[@KornPop96]

Missouri is doing great! Y'all beat Ohio State last year! I'm a Vols fan, but I also like Missouri. We both could have an amazing year this year!

[@otaviofrn_adv]

Mizzou is doing well for themselves

[@Teasquared27]

A&M, Mizzou, Nebraska, and Rutgers all wouldnt go back theres no regret. Although maryland has disappeared they arent in so much debt anymore and have money for their budget.

[@Josh-ut4wv]

Also Texas A&M has done well for its self as the SEC is much harder to win than the big 12 and i always argue that if it hadnt been for a hurricane pushing their first game against La Tech off A&M probably is your national champ in 2012 as they only lost their first two games and that first one was a product of a group that hadn't played together.

[@JH-lc8xd]

As a WVU fan I love being in the big 12 but we lost all of our traditional rivals and thats what college football is all about. You lose your rivals: you lose your identity and your way.

[@tmcobb04]

I also am a WVU fan and I have to disagree, I personally hate being in the big 12 as I don’t “giveadamn” about any games. Yea I want my team to win and compete but given the option between watching us play Arizona St in a game that has no stakes because everyone in the conference is just beating up everyone and playing a Saturday night game against Pitt or Virginia Tech that could make or break a season, I pick Pitt and VT all day long

[@timhaynes8548]

Let's Go Mountaineers!

[@jeffwatson68]

@@tmcobb04maybe four teams from the ACC (named Pitt, VT, UL & NCState) join the B12 soon!

[@thomasator1139]

@@jeffwatson68or WV could just come to the ACC

[@CarlAdams-lc6oz]

Why would it step down to a lower conference?

[@TheBML2]

Tech fan here. I’ve seen UT and A&M fans constantly shit on us for not being as rich was always a weird argument since they can barely win half the time

[@cmd31220]

I think the "give a dang" factor is better described as "AUTHENTICITY". College sports are unique in that all of the big rivalries come from friendly competition getting totally out of hand and generating real hate for real reasons. Why does Georgia hate Georgia Tech? Because in world war 1 georgia players went off to fight while tech players didnt and they dominated for a decade. Why do Michigan and Ohio State hate each other? Because of 18th century territorial disputes and supporting different sides of warring indian tribes. Why did Ole Miss and Mississippi state get into a literal criminal conspiracy against each other? Because Oxford and Starksville represent the class divide of the rural south dating back to the civil war. Sure the new "rivalries" that emerge from conference realignments can be fun and power schools can be forced to play each other and even form real rivalries of their own (arkansas-lsu, for instance, is very heated) it just doesnt feel the same because the history jist isnt there. Ohio State fans will never hate USC in the same way they hate Michigan because their fathers and grandfather and great grandfathers didnt hate the trojans, where they DID hate the wolverines.

[@ThrowBackFrog]

good point!

[@bjorncarlson2580]

As an Oregonian. The civil war between uo and osu is the only reason I cared about college football. The resnecks and the hippies hate on each other for one sanctioned day. It’s the same for the apple cup between Washington and Wazzu. It’s really important for the Pacific Northwest because it gives the state schools a chance to stand out.

[@denisdooley1540]

While we will never hate any one as much as Xichigan and USC has their FUCLA, there is sufficient history between tOSU and USC for it to be heated. Lots of Rose Bowl history and regular season matchups. And the stench of elitist snobbery out of USC has a familiar odor to that of scUM. In fact, I propose that last week's game have a trophy consisting of a replica of a Greek Narcissus statue as a trophy. But I've also lived in Oregon for decades after graduating from Ohio State, so I have a bit more familiarity with USC alumni than most Ohio State fans. They have lots of fans and alumni in the Portland area.

[@voiceofreason2674]

There is something about being a geographical outlier that gives rise to major travel advantage and disadvantage. Like the ACC and specifically Syracuse is a great example. Getting stomped out by a mediocre VTech only to give Clemson a run for their money in the Orange Dome the next week.

[@clairethewave]

When I asked my mom, who went to UT, about how she feels about leaving the big 12 and she said “well we’ve been playing less competitive schools for years.” Like, girl did you forget the almost 15 depressing years before last year?! I love that my LSU a tigers will be starting up a rivalry with UT, and I hope that UT is good. But I feel like sometimes, teams have just like one or two good years and immediately think they’re ready to join the SEC.

[@ThrowBackFrog]

Crazy to think that your mom's school has been getting dominated by 'less competitive schools' for years!

[@clairethewave]

@@ThrowBackFrog exactly haha!

[@volbound1700]

@@ThrowBackFrog true but it is a big win for Texas (Note, I am NOT a Texas fan). Texas played a bunch of smaller schools in its state or surrounded states that looked at Texas like SEC teams look at UK Basketball. I think the jump in competition will actually help Texas as they now have more meaningful opponents and not these "no win" games against teams like Baylor. Being a Tennessee fan, it is like us playing MTSU, Vandy, Memphis, UT Chattanooga, etc. They are games you are "supposed" to win and feel embarrassed about losing. Basically no win games. I felt the Big12 had got that way with Teas after A&M and Nebraska left (to a degree with Oklahoma as well). You are right that Oklahoma didn't bring much with them but Oklahoma only had 2-3 teams they truly care about anyways: Nebraska (which was lost long before the move), Oklahoma State, and Texas. Big12 was top heavy, historically, in football with Nebraska, OU, Texas, and sometime A&M and Colorado. Sadly, the rest of the Big12 has stepped it up over the last 10-15 years but it still hasn't been enough to stop realignment issues or give them a stronger spot at the table (think teams like Kansas State, Oklahoma State, and TCU which have good programs but would not get a spot at the big boys table despite their recent success because they were bad programs prior to 1990s/2000s).

[@Homedepotorange]

You gotta admire the balls Mizzou has to join the SEC

[@codywarhawk7099]

Texas fans aren't the brightest tbh

[@jamespyle777]

Because of football, every other sport the school has is being drug around by it.

[@pnut3844able]

Well football makes the most money, deal with it

[@mallardcutter7209]

The ACC was and will always be a basketball conference.

[@PHXNKVHXLIC]

Football is the only sport that makes money. Even winning a National championship in any other sport loses money for the school like LSU in womens basketball, Ole Miss in baseball, etc

[@theread3480]

Those other sports exist because of the money from football

[@ninefingerjack]

Who cares about other sports? Not the American public

[@sammyvillena9777]

Best thing to do would be for the NCAA to take control of this thing again and grant ALL conference champions access to the CFP. That means winners of the Sunbelt, C-USA, American, and MWC have just as much access to a National title as Alabama. The only thing up for grabs are the at large bids (in which case itll go to the power conferences. That should help a little as schools may begin to wonder why go through a brutal "SEC" schedule when they could just as easily qualify for a playoff berth from C-USA. Only downside is would you trade access to the playoffs for reduced moneies and rubbing elbows with western kentuky and north texas?

[@vinniegiordano3243]

There is an issue with seeing a correlation and cause and effect. There are plenty of schools that stay in their conference and see their glory turn to disaster over time. Look at the Florida Gators. They have been fairly blah since 2008, with the exception of year or two thrown in. There are just so many factors that play into why schools do well or not. Additionally, UC was in a power conference i.e. the Big East for some time. Finally, I agree with the regionality issue and interest. Eventually I can see some conferences casting away schools like UCF because no one cares enough to watch them in the Big 12 proper.

[@LeeNobody]

Excited to watch your content. It is refreshing to hear from another small team KZbinr. The hyper focus on the playoff is diminishing the value of smaller joys of beating rivals and making championship games. It is refreshing to hear others pushing back. I think when teams lose regionality casual fans begin to check out. This impacts recruiting and home field advantage which impacts winning percentage. As GT fan it has been interesting to see the growth of the rivalry with VT when both schools had no history before VT's introduction to the ACC. It was born of divisional rivalry and the draw of southern Alumni to Atlanta. I fear that with the B12 not protecting WV-Cincy and abandoning farmageddon these teams will begin to see apathy sneak in. Similarly with B1G not protecting the 4 West Coast teams together, we will see a repeat of Nebraska's decline. I am actually more bullish for the ACC additions as they are in major metros easing travel time in a true airplane conference.

[@ImMufasa17]

A&M fan here. Definitely agree with the give a damn factor. Impossible to care when A&M plays someone like Tennessee or the yearly South Carolina rivalry

[@ThrowBackFrog]

I didn't mention it in the video, but the same logic would state that TAMU should be the SEC to benefit the most from OU-UT joining the conference. Quite possible to see TAMU finally experience the success they always wanted in the future!

[@andrewmartinyt]

@@ThrowBackFrog To counter: A&M’s initial arrival had them reunited with old SWC rival Arkansas, and a dormant rivalry with LSU. Yet no success has come from it. I would argue it will be even harder for the Aggies, now that they have to fight LSU, Texas and Oklahoma all in the same conference.

[@UserName-ts3sp]

as an outsider it seems like a&m was trying to run from texas. but with texas back in the fold they’re going to have to fight. the money is there, the give a damn factor will now be there, but the schedule is intense.

[@GR-bn3xj]

Well you're in luck because y'all have big pocketed donors. This whole video was made about college football in a different era. Nil is relegating about 80% of the teams irrelevant unfortunately. I find the topic fascinating that the video is about, because I've always wondered if fans understand what they're getting when they get into a better conference which is usually more losses, for a while. TCU is the exception and I guess Utah. But for the vast majority of teams that go to a better conference they're going to have a lot more losses. Sometimes I wonder if that's more fun than staying where you are and winning more.

[@mr.runner4213]

Who ever said that A&M vs. South Carolina was a rivalry?

[@th3p0ndsh4rk]

It feels like no conference by themselves can fix this problem, the NCAA themselves needs to step in and force conferences back into geographic regions

[@JamieR2077]

True... but I think the power conferences have more power than the ncaa at this point...

[@derrickbonsell]

I think they should but I don't think they can.

[@randomtrainerx.3424]

Duke fan here. Honestly speaking, I'm still confused about the choice of bringing in SMU, Stanford, and Cal to the ATLANTIC Coastal Conference.

[@dannyxmaz]

We all are

[@scottn.4865]

They had to get them to keep the conference afloat when FSU; UNC and Clemson jump ship. Pac 12 didn't do that now they just have 2teams left.

[@randomtrainerx.3424]

@@scottn.4865 I knew FSU was thinking of jumping, but not UNC and Clemson.

[@Josh-ut4wv]

@@randomtrainerx.3424 its FSU and Clemson but many others are just sitting on the sidelines waiting to see if they need to jump ship

[@randomtrainerx.3424]

@@Josh-ut4wv gotcha

[@ZeusAmun-pt9dc]

I'm from Tennessee and I used to look forward to the Colorado vs Nebraska game it was played on Thanksgiving or the day after I can't remember but I used to love that game and I don't care about either team

[@jamesonbolen9058]

Good Friday was Colorado V Nebraska followed by Texas V A&M for years.

[@ZeusAmun-pt9dc]

@@jamesonbolen9058 yeah good Friday, I knew it had some cool nickname. Thanks for reminding me

[@GR-bn3xj]

@@ZeusAmun-pt9dc I also remember LSU versus Arkansas was always on that same Friday for a few years anyway. Enough that I started looking forward to it, then it went away lol.

[@ZeusAmun-pt9dc]

@@GR-bn3xj yeah it had a Golden trophy of the two states given to the winner. The rivalry games are the best part of college football.

[@mattm402]

@@jamesonbolen9058 Black Friday. The day after Thanksgiving. Good friday is the day Christians celebrate the cruixifiction of a jewish carpenter.

[@tylerahlstrom4553]

I think football needs to be separated from the rest of the sports at their schools. It’s unfair that all the other sports get dragged along by football to be in a conference playing teams on the other side of the country. The conferences of the other sports should be geographic based which makes sense. Who wants to watch a softball game between BYU and UCF? Football, at this point, should just do away with conferences and come up with an entirely new system. It gets boring playing the same teams year after year. Perhaps 6 games in your regional area, and then a tourney starts where you don’t know who you will be playing.

[@mind_of_dro]

or just give every sport voting rights on whether they want to move conferences or not. if majority of the sports want to move conferences, then they move

[@mtchcrtrmm9299]

Playing the same teams year after year develops rivalries which is half the reason why people are interested in college sports over pro sports...

[@AaronOnTheTrails]

One you overlooked was Penn State. Who went from winning two national titles as an independent in the 80s and has only played for a national title once since joining the Big Ten. They were seen as an eastern school as an independent and the very fact that they're the eleventh team in the Big Ten makes them an outlier.

[@theread3480]

Penn state is a bit different. They didn’t go from conference to conference, they went from independent to conference. College football was rapidly changing in the 80’s and 90’s. Being in a conference didn’t really have that much of a benefit until the 80’s and 90’s other than an identity. Notre Dame is the only school that still has relative success being independent (and they would have even more success if they joined a conference.) The benefits of being in a conference were too strong to remain independent.

[@volbound1700]

@@theread3480 true but they should have been referenced as they would have possibly gone to Big East rather than B1G. Penn State in the Big East would have been an interesting what if.

[@thomaswilson3827]

I feel like Virginia Tech also satisfied every factor for success. They were relatively close to every ACC team, which even included rival Virginia. That might be why they were so successful early on. The reason for their decline is most likely because the program fell off. Same with Louisville now that the ACC has a lot of former Big East teams.

[@volbound1700]

Agree and Virginia Tech was actually fairly good the first 10 or so years it was in the ACC. I think Va Tech should have been in the TCU/Utah category.

[@aaronlovell6026]

As an Arkansas fan I'm glad we jumped to the SEC. At least we're not worried about our future.

[@jaychapman125]

😆😂🤣

[@morefiction3264]

It wasn't jumping to the SEC that hurt us but a decline in football in Little Rock highschools.

[@lilcourtny08]

​@@morefiction3264Darren McFadden was the last great player from Arkansas

[@EzraChance]

Yeah but are y'all gonna win any significant hardware anytime soon? And what happens when the SEC decides it wants to start jettisoning lesser programs?

[@ThrowBackFrog]

A perfect example of how the Hog's plan when met with this issue was to roll over and accept that they sacrificed their dominance for the sake of stability & a good paycheck (not a BAD option, plenty of schools would take it in a heart beat)

[@BigZiggah]

Big Sky > SEC

[@slappinsteve3852]

A bunch of team the SEC wasn’t interested in 😂

[@jessepaiz6356]

​@slappinsteve3852 You say that until Sac State starts humiliating the SEC's lower tier teams, and the conference has to shut down in shame. The Pac-12 didnt shut down because of a lack tv deal. They committed suicide because they couldn't handle what happened to Oregon State, Stanford, and Colorado in the span of a decade. All it takes is Sam Pittman, Shane Beamer, the Sunbelt Kid, and the rest of misfits of the bottom of the SEC to have a few classic performance versus the hornets and next thing you know Alabama and Georgia would be willing to join the Ivy League to escape the shame and failure.

[@Carson_Neiss]

MVFC > Big Sky > SEC

[@voiceofreason2674]

See I got no problem with this cuz it's comedy, but I do have a problem with it when a big ten fan tries to say this

[@tnkl_4254]

Vandal up baby let's go

[@TheChrismeg34]

The ACC actually had the best moves because it moves teams for all the sports. Also smu will be a top 3 team consistently in the state of Texas with the nil situation. Adding cal Stanford and smu will help the conferences recruiting overall. I know it sounds crazy right now but just watch what I say.

[@tombowers6713]

We should have football only conferences. West coast joining big 10 is going to suck for rest of the sports.

[@mind_of_dro]

or just make it so every sport votes on whether they want to move conferences or not. if majority votes yes, then they can move

[@danielmagnuson9986]

As a Nebraska fan, I will always miss the Big 12. Having USC, UCLA, Washington and Oregon added to the B10 conference could help. Nebraska chose money over geography and Texas and Oklahoma are in part to blame.

[@SagerWorld]

Oklahoma’s proximity to Dallas/Ft Worth will always keep them a national power

[@ThrowBackFrog]

Lets check back on this in a decade

[@LeroyD420]

@@ThrowBackFrogI don’t even like these two programs but Oklahoma and Texas are coming to steam roll the SEC think about how many recruits they had missed out on by not being in the SEC

[@ThrowBackFrog]

Maybe so!@@LeroyD420

[@UserName-ts3sp]

i don’t think it always will… but i think venebles is a great leader to bring them into the SEC and oklahoma will ultimately be alright.

[@vinyllpreviews9462]

I think Oklahoma is going to Struggle in the SEC.

[@justinress2782]

I absolutely like your style of video. It is a good mixture between seriousness and funniness. It’s visible from the first minute, that a lot of effort has gone into this. Keep up the good work.

[@ThrowBackFrog]

Thank you so much!

[@lanceweaver4830]

As a life long arkansas fan I can tell you that the SEC only cares about it's original 10 team's and has done a number of things to make sure no school that isn't a OR 10 won't get to the top. Texas and oklahoma will find this out soon

[@volbound1700]

Nah, it is more like the SEC is a chaotic mess. They really only care about Alabama, Georgia, Florida, and UK. Most of the rest don't get much love. UK only for Basketball. As a Tennessee fan, we get screwed over sometimes in Conference scheduling, officiating, etc. However, ever program has a single vote so your school wins or losses in the SEC political arena based on how well you can get other schools to join with you in voting. Tennessee's issue in the past was that our ADs just sucked. Danny White has given us a stronger voice now.

[@DNSKansas]

@@volbound1700 Same with LSU. Joe Dean and Joe Alleva were absolute shit ADs. Scott Woodward has given the Bayou Bengals a strong and consistent voice.

[@DNSKansas]

You're telling me you would rather Arkansas stayed in the SWC and gone done in flames, hoping that they would get thrown a lifeline by the Big 12? If that happens, do those beautiful improvements to Razorback Stadium happen? Do you get Baum-Walker? Or the Tyson indoor track?

[@derrickbonsell]

Texas is now the top ranked team in the AP poll.

[@SvdSinner]

Thank you for saying what needs to be said. This last round of realignment was sparked by UT and OU, and nobody yet knows whether it will benefit either of them.

[@JamieR2077]

Eh Nebraska, Missouri & A&M leaving and Texas being trash for 15 years led to big 12 being dominated by OU.

[@adrianabshere]

UCF’s position as the only Big 12 team in Florida is actually a great thing in my opinion… It provides another P4 option for Floridian high school players that don’t get offered by/won’t play for Florida or Miami, while providing the same amount of exposure via TV deals, NIL, and whatever else a play expects out of a P4 school

[@ZeusAmun-pt9dc]

I'm so old I'm ancient and I promise you young guns out there that college football is way better when it is how it originally was. Smaller conferences with regional teams or varying size schools leaving plenty of room for non conference opponents and rivalries and so few bowl games that the selection of the bowl matchups becomes an anticipated event unto itself. This way you win the conference outright during the season and the season itself is what matters. The reason bowl game statistics weren't originally kept as a part of a player or teams overall seasonal stats is the same reason the national championship was AWARDED before the bowl game. Because they were originally just exhibition games with matchups people wanted to see because of the seasonal performance. What we have now is like bud light. It's cheap, tastes like camel piss, and isn't suitable for real men or actual women.

[@stonethrower24]

Bro please learn how to write a coherent sentence

[@ZeusAmun-pt9dc]

@@stonethrower24 I just went over this and you must be illiterate. Pathetic

[@jamesonbolen9058]

Like the year maybe 64 where Michigan had shutout Roger Staubach and Navy and only loss came earlier in the season 21-20 to Bob Griese Purdue. They finished 4th even though they went on to beat Ohio St and won the Rose Bowl 34-7 with 4 top 10 wins where 1-3 all lost their bowl games including AP National Champions Alabama who lost to Texas in the Bowl Game..

[@ZeusAmun-pt9dc]

@@jamesonbolen9058 yeah because it was believed that the players wouldn't give it their all in an exhibition game therefore the outcome shouldn't be considered. Plus it's a championship of the season and back then the bowls weren't a part of the season like it is now. I'm cool with making the bowl games a part of the season but still believe it should be far fewer in number to make them more interesting. However I also will watch every bowl whether it's 6 or however many there are now.

[@jamesonbolen9058]

LA shouldn't give a damn about playing Purdue a team who would probably excel in the Pac 12 and has to be more relevant than playing Colorado or Washington St at 1030 on ESPN than batch about East Coast bias when who the hell from Ohio or Georgia is going to watch USC-Arizona play to a 56-49 score with star players on offense having more TDs then top defenders do TFL or Sacks or hell tackles.

[@B193Alex]

It is weird that when a P5 team move to a richer P5 conference they flounder in the lower midpack while G5 teams who move to P5 tend to get better over time

[@trainz2990]

It’s worked out well for Utah and TCU

[@nashawnlivingston2965]

The boost in resources for G5s probably puts them in a better position to compete, especially if they were already solid beforehand

[@frankmilitary]

They don’t change conferences because they expect to win more. It’s about $$$$ and stability. If you aren’t in the BIG TEN or SEC by now, you’re nowhere.

[@Spitfirethedragon]

The fans at Nebraska wants the win. They get hostile if their team do not win. Nebraska was a blue blood team, but after moving to Big 10? They became a have been.

[@RIPJimmyA7X]

This is why i love FCS football, still high quality football but insane obsession with moving for media deals hasnt happened yet. The old school college football feel is still alive and well

[@fortniteirony9597]

It may be that the farther you have to travel the harder it is on student athletes

[@samkilgore2689]

Virginia Tech was one of the dominant ACC teams before the bad hire of Justin Fuente. The move wasn’t the problem, the problem was hiring an untalented spineless head coach to replace a legend.

[@fxmoon123]

True true

[@TuscanSota]

I’m a Baylor guy but I’m subscribing because I share similar views with you regarding realignment. Looking forward to watching future videos!

[@carlos.4700]

This was a great video! You should definitely have more than 700 subscribers

[@ThrowBackFrog]

Thank you! Share it with your friends and lets grow those numbers!

[@marine76a]

Like how TCU joined the BXII and stood to benefit.

[@jordandennis6794]

Only a KZbinr like this would deal in absolutes

[@ThrowBackFrog]

You're absolutely correct

[@jordandennis6794]

​@@ThrowBackFrogthank you sir

[@luviern9151]

This is a great video! With the way things are going in the ACC you might have to make a part 2 sooner than you think!

[@ThrowBackFrog]

Maybe so!

[@SisyphusMMA]

Yeah my tigers are probably gonna head for the SEC sadly.

[@tarheel7406]

a) General consensus was/is that the SWC could not survived being so Texas geo-centric. ARK was going either SEC or part of the near future BIG12. b) VATECH has definitely declined since its move to the ACC, but most blame MIAMI's decline on a deemphasis on athletics that is just now being reversed. The old BIGEAST was likely doomed due t a number of factors. c) The declines of CO & NEB do seem related to leaving their historical element. No surprise that the schools moving have had more than average success in their old conferences since they would be the most attractive to other conferences. Geo matters, but not determinative. For instance, MIAMI and VATECH clearly were better geo fits in the ACC than the old BIGEAST. Your observations reconcile with other findings, namely that generally lateral moves don't meet expectations, but elevation moves exceed expectations. Expansions never really rise to the same power in the new conference than they had in the old, which likely impacts brand/image. Does PSU or FSU really have tier 1 influence in the B1G and ACC respectively. USC in the B1G? TEXAS in the SEC?

[@Homedepotorange]

As a Missouri fan, im excited to see Oklahoma joining the SEC just so we finally have someone we have a strong history with in our confrence

[@chris_hisss]

Interesting. Look forward to seeing how this plays out. These systems and conferences are so confusing already and then they change again and it brings a lot of questions. My local school the Marshall Thundering herd has went from !-AA to MAC to C-USA, to I guess sun belt at this point? At least we aren't having to play Central Florida each year. It tended to always be close games back when I paid more attention. Geography matters but you playing in the other geography matters a lot too as you can offer better deals than their home while also having a underdog newcomer feeling. But that might wear thin faster if things don't go the best. Both with the fans when considering the cost to support. Marshall has had some very fickle fans felt like. Can't imagine other teams.

[@danielkinney6518]

I think climate is the biggest factor. College teams (and even NFL teams, to a lesser extent) optimize their playbook and personnel around the climate they live in. Big 10 teams rely heavily on running the ball because they often have to play in rain, snow, or below-freezing conditions, while teams from warmer areas (i.e. USC, Oklahoma) focus more heavily on the passing game. Having to frequently play outside of one's home climate makes things very difficult for any school. This is even mirrored in pre-industrial military history, with most large empires stretching east to west rather than north to south due to the smaller difference in temperature across that territory, and struggling to expand into dissimilar climates from their homelands. The old Power 5 also followed this convention, with 3 conferences stretching east to west (Big 10, SEC, Big 12) and the other two being in more temperate cities on or near the coast (ACC, Pac-12). TCU and Utah also fit this theory well, as TCU is in Texas and fits naturally with the Big 12's geography, and Utah, being in a mountainous area, sees a wide range of weather conditions, allowing their playstyle to be effective whether they were playing at Washington, USC, or Arizona.

[@Airi_Iwin]

That’s not true about SMU they wanted to join a power 5 so bad that they said they would join the conference for free, ACC is not broke

[@cowgomoo1962]

As a Houston fan, the big12 alignment seems to have more to do with basketball than football at least for the short term. But also for a lot of the older Houston fans and faculty theres lots of frustration about how Houston was kept out of the original big12 multiple times through the years.

[@jrddog]

Football is still driving the bus. The four schools brought in to replace OUT were the three winningest programs in the best G5 league and a national brand in BYU that finished 3rd in the Big 12 this year in attendance (With UT and OU being #1). If basketball were driving the bus the league likely would've added Memphis and/or UConn over UCF. We would've also likely have seen the Gonzaga basketball add actually materialize. Instead the league prioritized adding the C4 schools from the Pac which outside of Arizona, aren't really basketball schools (and while Arizona is they also made a NY6 bowl this year in football).

[@GR-bn3xj]

​@jrddog Well depends on how far you go back. Memphis won more games in the AAC than any of the teams that joined. Unfortunately for them, they missed out on two probable NY6 bowls by missing 2 FGs on the last play of the game. Both by future NFL kickers. All of the schools that went to the big twelve head two or three great years, But also had years that dropped off. Memphis was the only school that stayed every year pretty much the whole time or since 2014. But you gotta take advantage of your opportunities.. They didn't

[@DB-kx4jd]

@@GR-bn3xjas a Memphis native, I’d delusionally hope that this is just the program playing the long game and looking to run the AAC for a decade in football and basketball before making a P4 bid

[@GR-bn3xj]

@DB-kx4jd I think it's funny when you talk to UCF fans, they definitely thought Memphis should have gotten in. Not so much with Houston or Cincinnati fans from my experience, although many of them still thought they should have. It was definitely those four schools who led the AAC, and it was sad to me that one them got left behind, bc it took all of them working together to make it happen. If this had happened in 2019, I think Memphis would have gotten in.

[@codywarhawk7099]

I'm a Colorado alum and fan. George Kliavkoff and his antics didn't give us and the other nine schools who left the Pac12 a choice when all he did was bet in Vegas on Pac12 games and tampered with the refs, lied to the media, and didn't actually do what's necessary to ger us a media deal. He didn't actually communicate with organizations like ESPN like he claims he did. He contacted Apple in the last minute after realizing the walls were closing in on him, and that's the only option he had. Thanks to him, the Pac12 imploded and he caused irreparable damage to thousands of people and their families. CU either had to make the move or be relegated to further irrelevancy in a dead conference. By the way, Kliavkoff should be facing prison time for a lot of the shady shit he's done while a commissioner.

[@KODAKJACK47]

Glad I found your channel bro. I love your edits and points. I’m from Nebraska and went to kstate so I understand all of this personally. I really think this expanded playoff and crashing of the pac 12 is really gonna cause a resurgence with Nebraska and Miami especially. More recruiting in California for Nebraska and more recruiting in Texas for Miami. With Saban gone I really think CFB is gonna revert back to 90s powerhouses having success

[@dillonadkins09]

While Cinnci joining the island will likely be early on negative for Cincinnati and esspecially their recent success, however it should eventually be mutually beneficial, and West Virginia needs it. Love the video, keep up the solid content, it will keep getting better👍

[@Beenman2210]

Don’t forget how much Louisville Pittsburgh and Syracuse basketball was destroyed by going to the ACC. West Virginia went from a fringe national champion contender in both football and basketball to just average in both now. Maryland won a national champion in the 2000s in basketball and had a huge rivalry with Duke to basically just hoping to make the tournament as a 10 seed now. UCONN struggled in the AAC but immediately became a national champion contender once they went back to the big east.

[@corn8887]

Great video, cant believe it is your first. Keep up the good work

[@ThrowBackFrog]

Thanks!

[@lamarjackson_burneraccount]

as a nebraska fan, been waiting for a video like this.

[@ninjadanny628]

Great video! Cant wait to see more of your content

[@ThrowBackFrog]

Thank you!

[@emanualmarques5757]

This is the first logical video on realignment i have ever seen (with some off points). At this point, i say let the big brands go and let the rest of us enjoy real/traditional college football. I am excited for the Big 12 and excited to see SMU back in a power conference. I wouldnt be mad if the Big12 & ACC swapped teams Conci, UCF, & WVU to ACC, B12 takes SMU, Cal, Stanford, then adds Oregon State & WashU. Have an East/West in the B12 and North/South in the ACC. Set a bowl game or two for these 2 conferences. Edit: One interesting fact....Tulane has more SEC championships than many current members ;)

[@viprthered]

For first video the quality is pretty amazing for this video I see why it blow up in a few days

[@ThrowBackFrog]

Thank you!!!

[@NovaPR0SPEKT]

Great job, man. K-State fan here, subbed.

[@ThrowBackFrog]

Thanks EMAW man!

[@MrGrombie]

Subbing for the Miami content

[@larryleach4950]

Yep. Not sure why that isn’t being pointed out / discussed more

[@_Doodle-bob]

Mountain West Bros Unite!!!! Utah and TCU about to run the Big12.

[@hornets06]

God I miss playing BYU and Utah

[@alexlarsen2464]

I don’t miss playing tcu. When I went to tcu @utah in 2010 the game was over before I even made it to my seat.

[@BigCManMusic]

Very good video! I love the detail and attention you had to each of the schools involved. I just wonder what this conversation will look like in the years to come!

[@ThrowBackFrog]

Thank you!

[@AJD-LsUp]

Your Oklahoma to the SEC and your Nebraska to the Big Ten comparison is spot on I believe Great video I will be subscribing and sharing on X

[@tempo100000]

Liked and subscribed. Because you confirmed my biases.

[@ThrowBackFrog]

Always a good way to grab a sub

[@josephmckenney-barschall864]

I wonder if part of the challenge of being on the geographic frontier is convincing teams to play on your field. Home-field advantage has a noticeable effect on officiating, and if you are way out there on the edge, you will be the least likely team to get home games. It isn't impossible, but it will cost you something to do it. Another thing is that if you move from a conference you dominated to a new conference, your record can only get worse from conference play. This will change you from a school with a history of relevance, to another mediocre school at the middle/bottom of the pile. This can only hurt a team when it comes to recruiting. I don't mean that all of the sudden you will be playing good teams for the first time. What I mean is that as conferences consolidate, the number of tough games you will naturally wind up with will increase. Presumably because you joined the conference in part, to get games against famous programs (which tend to be the good ones.)

[@bitter2day]

I remember when Kentucky beat Florida for the first time in years a few years ago, and I celebrated like it was a national championship. I wish more fans had fun like that as well.

[@stevenroberts614]

00:53 Excuse me, its MAA'AAM. MA"AAM!!! That lady went nuts!

[@MrJara1018]

TCU , and Utah are the most successful team that have moved conference.

[@TheBlackScatPack]

This will be a nice video to revisit in a few years.

[@FourEyedFrenchman]

As a Sooner fan, I'm not big on our chances in the SEC. I get the feeling we're gonna pull a Nebraska. We're going from owning the Big 12 to being a middle-of-the-pack team at best in the SEC. Games right now regularly sell out tickets, so that means there are a lot of fair weather fans who will stop going to Norman when the new normal of 6-6 and 7-5 seasons settles in. That drop off in fan involvement and ticket revenue will be catastrophic for the program and OU athletics as a whole since OU athletics is a banana republic dependent on the big bucks football success brings in. We're not on an island in the SEC, but we are in a very crowded neighborhood where a good chunk of our neighbors are much more wealthy than us, and many of the rest have coffers comparable to ours. We'll come out swinging, I'm sure, but we'll likely tire out after a few seasons and settle into our new role as an average program in an exceptional conference.

[@DNSKansas]

There's no reason the Sooners should ever finish behind Vanderbilt, Kentucky, South Carolina and Mississippi State in any year; and Auburn, Arkansas, Florida, Missouri, Ole Miss, Tennessee and Texas A&M in most years. No shame in being behind Alabama, Georgia, LSU and (sigh) Texas.

[@KornPop96]

Sure you'll lose fair weather fans, but you'll gain even more SEC fans. As a lifelong Tennessee homer I can tell you that in the SEC we go for the conference, not just our team. We trash talk a LOT between ourselves, but you can bet that we're still watching Alabama and Georgia games when they're playing out of conference teams. I love all SEC teams 51 weeks a year 😂.

[@Spitfirethedragon]

Cincinnati was a top Big East school that was a P6 conference who got left behind. They were already rivals with West Virginia, Syracuse, and Pittsburgh. Houston was a former SWC member who are reunited with the old rivals of TCU, Baylor and Texas Tech. One schools that should have gotten a P5 spot is Boise State. They are the only school from the 2000s who won games over P5 school. They always played like a P5 school. They might be able to compete for a conference championship in either PAC 12 or Big 12 when TCU and Utah got picked up. BYU on the other hand won a National Championship in 1980s. The problem is that there are schools that are P5 type schools in the G5 that have not been picked up yet. UCF's football program is fairly new, and not much history behind them. Boise State on the other hand is a national power in football no matter at what level they were in. Since forming in 1932, they only had 7 losing seasons for almost a 100 year program. Now all schools in FBS can lay a claim on that one since they all had more than 10 seasons of losing.

[@GR-bn3xj]

I would have gone with Memphis over some of the other AAC schools myself. Not sure how they got left out

[@Spitfirethedragon]

@@GR-bn3xj UCF because of their recent success, and their win over Auburn. Cincinnati's basketball got them in more than their football. BYU had the tv ratings, and moving them from Independent to Big 12 would saved ESPN some money. Houston should have been left out. Boise State, Memphis and Fresno State have been selling more tickets than Houston did.

[@GR-bn3xj]

@@Spitfirethedragon i agree with all of that. Houston was the team that surprised me. If you ask UCF fans, well most of them anyway, which team was their biggest rival in the AAC during the duration, most would have said the games with Memphis meant the most and Memphis was the biggest game for them. It wasn't until the last two seasons that Cincinnati got into the conversation. Memphis won more AAC games than any of the three that got in. Their problem was they only made one NY6 game. Houston started out as the team to beat but while good, never got back to that standard as the early leaders of the AAC. Their recent rise in basketball probably helped them, along with their TV market and location in Texas. It seemed like all 4 of those teams just took turns winning the AAC, and having special years. I thought UCF was the definite first pick and probably Cincinnati was number two. Probably a coin flip between Houston and Memphis. I can't say it's shocking that Memphis did not get in but I had Memphis slightly ahead of Houston when this went down. I was a little sad they didn't add all four, because all of these teams had to band together and make the AAC what it was to get in there. There were some intense rivals but I believe fans of one school would root for the other one when they played out of conference. They needed each other to be good. It was just a shame one of them had to be left behind.

[@crafty9795]

I’m choosing to be optimistic as an ACC fan because a few of the slightly less popular sports are getting a new boost like volleyball and gymnastics

[@NowOffYouGo]

I have always thought the original Big 12 would have been amazing with Arkansas instead of Baylor.

[@mallardcutter7209]

I sure hope that when all colleges end up in two conferences they don’t sign a long term deal. They will eventually start splitting off eventually and wind back up where they all started.

[@ANT992]

SMU should have joined the Big 12 and UCF should have joined the ACC, The Pac schools were just ridiculous.

[@Bipolar.Baddie]

As a Kentuckian and UofL student, I'll probably die from pure sadness if UK and UofL stop playing for the Governor's Cup at the end of the football season every year. We'll always have UK vs UofL in basketball, soccer, and baseball, but they'll never have the same aura as the Governor's Cup.

[@mrmajikjr]

The only teams that benefit from moving conferences are the teams that move from the G5 to the P5.

[@hornets06]

I’m impressed the MWC was able to hold together.

[@brianarbenz1329]

The worst thing about this mass monetization of college sports is that many of the mid-level schools who upgraded stadiums, recruiting and facilities to get TV recognition helped pay for these expansions by raising tuition, specifically by adding athletic fees to the general student population. This while student debt has devastated millions of lives, and several athletic directors have become multimillionaires. John McCay and Woody Hayes, while being no saints, each made less than $50,000 a year while each won 4 national titles. In this era, athlete graduation rates have plummeted. And about 60 percent of former NFL players are broke, a function of big money coming too soon for a person to know how to handle it. College sports is used to try to offset cuts in public sector and corporate support for the university while costs have constantly risen over the last 60 years. A tiny few get rich as students and athletes are harmed. I grew up loving sports, then covered it for print media. But any more sports is a nothing but a scam.

[@arizonawildcat3821]

These media execs will never understand college football. If my team dwindles into obscurity, I will no longer be interested in the sport plain and simple. By making these super conferences, they’re cutting off millions of fans from the sport. As an Arizona fan, I’m extremely less inclined to care about the BIG 12 games, as most of our real rivals are gone (UCLA, USC). I can’t imagine being an Oregon State fan or Wazzu fan. Like why even bother watching any of the playoff games. College football isn’t about football it’s about tradition, the NFL has a far superior product on the field so that’s not what’s drawing fans in. College football is about the passion, rivalries, and tradition. Seeing a David knock off a Goliath is what makes the game incredible.

[@blake302011]

Great video! I'm so glad somebody finally pointed it out! Also go frogs!

[@ThrowBackFrog]

Roll Toad!

[@DingBong6]

According to this theory, Arkansas should improve after the addition of OU and Texas. ❤🐗

[@TheDrewisawesome]

Nice work man, great video to start with

[@ThrowBackFrog]

Thank you!

[@otaviofrn_adv]

Man, I wish the scheduling could be regional again, but not in a conference system. I'll explain: I would really like to test the idea of a scheduling divided regionally based on the geographical regions of the country, but the schedule being based on a randon draw for the majority of the games. An expansion of the season might be warranted. Let's say, e.g., Georgia: they keep the rivalries with Florida and Georgia Tech. Teams keep a couple of permanent rivalries, but the rest is defined by a draw. Let's say 10-12 groups of schools (we have around 140 FBS teams). If one of your rivals is selected into your group, you can play another game. Winners of each group to the playoffs, home games in the first two rounds, the big 6 bowls for semifinals and championship. The changes would be massive still, but we are kinda getting halfway there. If anything the SEC and the Big 10 now have a margin to break with the NCAA and close te club for themselves, and this would be a disaster.

[@baritone_vocalist]

Glad Wku decided to stay in C-Usa. I can't even imagine what Wku would be like in MAC

[@blakecampbell-taylor2865]

Unless you’re Texas

[@tobiasnicholls9837]

I will note, so far the big 12 has been dominated by its new additions, it's currently tied between BYU who was independent and Utah from the pac12, with UCF, Cincinatti, and Colorado trailing behind. the only long time teams looking to remain competitive are Iowa State and Texas Tech. of course my Houston Cougars are yet to see any benefit from the move. it's gonna turn around any second now... any second now......

[@ftb5558]

It just would have made so much more sense if the big 12 would have added SMU, Stanford and Cal, while Cincy, UCF and West Virginia were going to the ACC instead. All of these teams would have benefited from a move like that

[@colesunwood1656]

As a TCU fan from Nebraska, I felt very represented by this video 😂

[@manni17b]

"Winning the title isn't what its all about" is a very convenient outlook for a TCU fan. But I do admit that I agree with you, there's too much focus on TV rights and streaming deals and not nearly enough on retaining talent and enriching school culture in the non-dominant schools right now. Programs like LSU, Bama, UGA, Ohio and Michigan all seem to be doing well by worrying about their record and traditions than everyone jumping conferences in hopes of network paydays. Go Dawgs, btw

[@vernonsheldon-witter1225]

The old Big 8 was the most unified Conference I know of. We lost so much by giving up our identity as one of the best regional Conferences to make the Big 12.

[@yellowmartian]

The big 8 should have just invited BYU and Utah to go to 10. 10 is the best number for conferences.

[@showtimebruin7821]

Expansion of conferences and no more split conference titles means teams are less likely to win conference titles. Also, success is more centralized in a handful of programs. We have the same few schools competing for national and conference titles year after year with occasional outliers. That’s not how things were before. These factors have resulted in an illusion of conference realignment having poor outcomes. Besides Nebraska, none of the schools cited by the video have had significant decline of overall success other than less conference championships. Even Miami is not a good example since they were only in the Big East for a short period of time.

[@LordJudgement1818]

Im a Nebraska fan. I can tell you that moving to the big ten hurt the fans, but made the school truckloads of movie. I miss playing the teams i grew up watching. Its just not right.

[@Dominic_LaSalle]

this is kinda why I'm upset about Cincy joining B12 vs the ACC. So many historic rivals in the ACC but all we get in the B12 are Houston, UCF, and WVU. Our "GADF" could've been so much higher if we were playing old Big East teams like ul, pitt, VT, and BC every year... That being said, I definitly prefer basketball to football, and this move is GREAT for UC basketball

[@aegisofhonor]

I do believe a league system would work as long as they could deal with the recruitment problem it would cause.

[@dubvuchyea502]

You seem to be forgetting that WV left the big east because it was falling apart. Pitt Louisville, and Cuse had already said they were leaving for the ACC. The Big East was no longer going to be a power conference, and WVU would be a part of a conference that not only wouldn't be relevant, but would net them next to nothing in terms of television dollars. The ACC wouldn't take them, as their academic standards weren't high enough. Same problem with the Big Ten. The Big 12 was the only one that wanted them, so that's what they did