Mr. Welch's Mad Musings: Deathwatch

[@vampyr2936]

Ahh yes, the infamous "Hey, do you think I can suplex this Lictor into that Riptide Battle Suit?" game.

[@LezCharming]

I'd love to play an Imperial Guard woman who finds herself running communications and supply for a bunch of chainsaw swinging Space Marines. Like Wendy and the Lost Boys,but incredibly violent.

[@templarw20]

Or an Inquisitor that has to actually.. negotiate with one group in order to clear the way to kill another. "No, THAT Tau is our contact. The Eldar's little scheme requires his death, so we're going to keep him alive and kill the Eldar, instead."

[@templarw20]

So if Rogue Trader’s rule is “dibs,” Deathwatch has “hey y’all, watch this!”

[@YuriPRIMErpg]

I will make a caveat to your conclusion at minute 7:00 - I think that Deathwatch actually CAN be played with other entries (Not the two newest ones, for mechanical reasons) but DH and RT, absolutely. Especially Dark Heresy. However, don't have your puny acolytes be acompanied by Big Deathwatch Chungus, no... not the point. However! If you are playing an Ordo Xenos campaign, investigating aliens on fringes of mankind's domain, let your players make TWO sets of characters. One for acolytes doing their investigation. Second set, for Deathwatch marines, that are called forth to aid in final strike. In fact, this is great template that worked for me. Acolytes are main driving force, they gather the intelligence on the issue, have the players write reports at the end of the adventure. Then switch to Deathwatch and have them briefed by Ordo Xenos inquisitor who presents the same papers your players wrote. Your acolyters were their 'eyes' and now you are the sword. You plan insertion according to the best knowledge. The poor job done by acolytes may lead to tougher fights, or maybe if acolytes were sloppy, you can ramp up victory points needed per horde encounters, meaning the xenos or cultists had time to prepare and reinforce, since they discovered the snooping acolytes on their investigation. This is an excelent mix, one that I cannot recommend enough. Speaking of good mixes, try combined arms for Only War, where you create two regiments: Infantry and Armored, and switch between the two!

[@hughsmith7504]

So fun fact, between a normal deathwatch marines starting Armour and toughness bonuses, it is 100% possible to use frag grenades as a melee weapon, and the marine not even feel it...as many a genestealler cultists has discovered :)

[@KaiserAfini]

I just pictured a space marine power fist with grenade knuckles, defeating enemies with explosion fu.

[@Archangelm127]

I'm pretty sure Doomguy *is* a WH40K space marine who got sucked into another dimension and lost his memory.

[@ChaosTicket]

I remember the first Warhammmer 40k RPG, Inquisitor also had a problem with weapons. Melta and Plasma weapons existed, but they had so many penalties that Bolters were far better.

[@WDFrost-ns4gp]

For what it’s worth, the pdfs are on DriveThruRPG under Cubicle 7 Entertainment,

[@templarw20]

$20 for pretty much all of them for Humble Bundle this month... (May 2020)

[@SwordlordRoy]

Me: "For those we Cherish, We Die in Glory!" GM: "The door to the armory is malfunctioning, give me a Tech-use check." Me: Rolls a natural 100 GM: "Drive Failure! DRIVE FAILURE!!!"

[@Aggroculture110]

Man I loved this game. My gm hated me the other players would shoot me cuz I was the only melee character and I still lived the longest. Nun can stop the Space Bucking frat boy with a jumppack, thunder hammer, a storm shield and all the guns.

[@benhramiak8781]

played my first session of it yesterday. good stuff made an iron hands tech marine

[@YuriPRIMErpg]

Space Marines in Deathwatch have one starting set of talents that truely make them the showstoppers. I've heard complaints from folk who seem to think a DH character such as assassin can easilly slice and dice Astartes in first encounter, to which they provide all the extra attacks and dodge talents you can get from DH. However, this is far from truth. What really sets Astartes apart in this mechanic is that they have a small ability that can be invoked at will as a part of solo ability suite, that ramps your unnatural Str bonus from x2 to x3! And that costs you nothing, just time. The other one, is a fate power, where you spend a fatepoint (just like you would re-roll) but... you prevent your enemy from parrying or dodging your blow. It's not that they get a penalty, no... they just ain't allowed to dodge that one strike. Combine it with All out attack for extra mods, and with stock standard combat knife you can ramp up ridiculous unavoidable damage with fresh upstart marine. Yet... So few are actually aware of those options. Next time you play Deathwatch, use it, but not on anyone, on your GM's favorite antagonist. Invoke it with righteous zeal and watch your GM cry as you just dismantled his epic campaign antagonist with one strike (make sure to have Chainsword equipped... sure power weapons have extra penn, but nothing's as deadly in this game as crit mechanic, so rolling extra damage dice is THE patrician's choice for very little requisition)

[@lawfulstupid643]

I've never played a Warhammer RPG before in my life, but this game sounds like the coolest thing EVER and seriously had me marking out like a child. Thank you, Mr. Welch, you've added another one to my bucket list. X)

[@DiploRaptor]

Despite what Mr.Welch says a 2.5k Guardsman can reliably take on a starting Marine(up to about Rank 5) yes

[@YuriPRIMErpg]

Depends whether the Guard is translated from OW rules to DW, or other way around. The difference is significant. If the guard is set for ranged fight and there's a lot of space between the two, with no cover for marine, then yes. If Marine get's in melee range then no.

[@SusCalvin]

@@YuriPRIMErpg That's my impression of the FF 40k games. Compatible enough to work together, but with enough small rules changes that someone who knows what they're doing (and isn't stopped) can really powergame it if they remember which book has the best version of a feat or gear.

[@Balevolt]

This game is great for the oh shit button for Dark Heresy

[@AlainproFredric]

Welp.... Time to go on a crusade. For the EMPEROR!!!

[@revenvrake7412]

I've actually GMed a Black Crusade game that was interesting as half the party was regular Human Heretics and the others were Chaos Space Marines and everyone had a blast with it. I wonder how its power scales compared to Death Watch.

[@Mr_Welch]

Because Black Crusade used the new skill system it handled it better because there's no levels so if you want to make the non Marines even close in level to Space Marines you just have to give them a ton of experience points.

[@AlVainactual]

Awesome stuff! These books got me into 40k. I really liked the Grey Knights book as well.

[@heymay724]

can we have a look at WFRP any time in the future?

[@Mr_Welch]

If I can find a copy

[@heymay724]

@@Mr_Welch 4e is fresh and new. But if you prefer the older RPGs I understand the hesitation

[@BSOE3058]

2ed is da best

[@Mr_Welch]

@@heymay724 If 4E was the FFG boxed edition the problem was players just couldn't afford it. Main reason I never saw it played.

[@YuriPRIMErpg]

@@BSOE3058 A man of culture

[@SusCalvin]

I remember when a space marine just meant T4, S4 and BS/WS 4+, and 1 wound behind a 3+ save. :( The power curve of Rogue Trader goes a bit higher when you look beyond the individual PCs and look to what they are bringing with them. Potentially a small fleet of imperial spacecraft, each at least a couple kilometers long and carrying 30.000 dudes. It's the game where your power as imperial nobility at the top of a big hierarchy pays off. Only War is the other combat-heavy game. One more about the everyday aspects of warfare, where the next room or hill or corridor is an epic fight and the unfairness of the supply chain is always ready to screw you over. I wouldn't call any of the Fantasy Flight 40k RPGs a beer and pretzels game. There's too much feats and gear and splatbook nonsense for any of their games to run casually. Creating characters is a build strategy.

[@Daolnwood]

I'm probably violating some unspoken rule of the internet here, but I'd feel utterly remiss if I didn't share: for anyone reading between now (4/7/20) and 4/27/20 roughly 3pm EDT, Humble Bundle has a Deathwatch RPG PDF Bundle available. If you're a fan of the game or setting, or if Mr Welch's description has made you curious, it probably wouldn't hurt to check it out.

[@thatguynameddan2136]

I am so happy right now that i own most of these FFG 40k series, i havent gotten a game together in a few years now, but damned if this didnt make me remember something great for oneshots and the like. Now i just wish i wasnt an essential employee during all this and had time to get a game together .

[@irontemplar6222]

Hey Mr Welch, did you ever happen to come across any homebrews which are perhaps a bit more reasonable for running space marines in 40k RPG? I have some ideas for running a Space Marine Campaign, but its tough to challenge the players when they are virtually completely immune to small arms fire if they are being modest with their stats. As such I would like a way to actually challenge the players without just pulling deamonlords, and Tyranid hive tyrants out of my rear. I kind of had the idea of having the players play a group of renegades trying to clear their chapters name, or flipping off to the distant starts to try and rebuild and reestablish their chapter. I want to run a game where they are super soldiers but are having to make careful decisions to get the materials, and equipment they need. While maintaining what resources they have. Do you know of any homebrews for this? Or do you have any suggestions to help with this, or do you think I'm just being an idiot?

[@LezCharming]

I have good news! All of these 40k RPGs are on drive thru rpg at very reasonable prices. Get those fairly priced PDFs. The collector's market is heresy!

[@qazwer333]

Side note. I find that if you feel like you need to challenge your players, send level equivalent bigmek's, battle suits, chaos marines or genestealers towards them. It will get boring quickly if you just put everything in a horde. Also home rule the heavy bolter and the breaching auger, they break the game like nothing else(IE the auger can one shot a imperial titan with the right techpriest.)

[@Aggroculture110]

"Field dress a Tau etheriel" God i wished I played in your game instead of the shit show i played in

[@619soysauce]

I'd love to see you review Warhammer fantasy 2nd edition

[@NefariousKoel]

This is possibly heresy, but I sold my large collection of Deathwatch books a few years ago. Along with my Dark Heresy 1e set (kept some 2e). There were just too many abilities, modifiers, and situational crunch in Deathwatch for my taste. Looked like it'd be a big xeno-blasting fine time, but so unwieldy and modifier-ridden, I'd need some Administratum assistants to keep track of all the fine print and paperwork. Seemed like it would be brutal to GM.

[@SusCalvin]

I think that's the downfall of all FF 40k games. You want to roll up some iggy and have a lark dying for the Emperor, but each time you do you're forced to take a break and consult build strategies instead. It's not a very good beer and pretzels game when you need to constantly explain a build strategy to the players and make them go through the increasingly arcane xp system. I wanna get a lasgun and 5+ flak and shoot some grots, dangit.

[@SerpenThrope]

Question: Given that their existence is top-secret is there any way to justify a Grey Knight becoming a member of the Death Watch? And how likely would you be to survive the GMs reaction for suggesting it?

[@Mr_Welch]

Considering there's a large number of filthy filthy warped touched xenos, at higher levels it would be an expected crossover. The Space Marines would be sworn to secrecy or at worst mind cleansed but if they have the expertise and reputation there's no reason why they wouldn't be trusted with those secrets

[@SusCalvin]

My friends told me you can play a librarian in Deathwatch. A marine is basically chapter+specialty. Librarians are of course just as OP as everyone else, you're the guy who can set a battlefield on fire, accidentally summon a demon on top of you and then beat that demon and do it all again.

[@p_serdiuk]

There is no way because they are already parallel organizations. Both are subordinated to the Inquisition and both have unique battle doctrines and wargear that just aren't compatible with one another. The Grey Knights rely heavily on their psychic gifts, strong bonds of brotherhood, and force weapons that are good against everything, while the Deathwatch rely on their diversity of origins, an array of specialized guns and ammunition to combat specific threats, some of them one-offs or improvised for a specific mission, and a lot of training to be able to work together at all. That said, combating psychic xenos falls under the functions of both Ordo Malleus and Ordo Xenos, so it isn't unheard of for Grey Knights to fight alongside Deathwatch, provided there is an Inquisitor in charge of the operation and everyone is mind-cleansed afterwards. It's a bit like deploying Adeptus Custodes and Sisters of Silence as Talons of the Emperor, there is a kind of synergy there but they are still separate organizations.

[@RipOffProductionsLLC]

Showing up 3 years late, but here I go... I think there were official Grey Knight rules in a Dark Heresy supplement, with the intention being that they were either for the GM to use as an OP bail-out NPC if things went too far off the rails, or as PCs in a one-off game after the regular acolytes either got party wiped and/or forced to flee by a successful Chaos ritual, and now a squad of Grey Knights need to go in and clean up the mess.

[@SerpenThrope]

@@RipOffProductionsLLC Interesting. But I was mostly thinking that not just because I wanted to play a Grey Knight, but because a Grey Knight accepted into the Deathwatch seems like an insane Marty Stu.

[@hellhammerCCCP]

I love your mad musings series. Can you do d20 modern?

[@Mr_Welch]

I'll see if I can find a copy

[@BlueHero112]

An episode on d20 modern would be cool so would some episodes on the various GURPs source books some unique settings with that system

[@CowCommando]

@@Mr_Welch I've got the core rulebook if you want to borrow it.

[@Usernamesdontmatter1]

Tbh I would love to play this if one member of my party wouldn't stfu about it....also if the only games we ever fucking played weren't 40k.

[@williamsova9313]

Great review though it looks like a lot of the fan sites seem to down now so you'll have to look harder to find something

[@SMAXZO]

Ah..it's nice to see a review of Deathwatch from someone who knows WHY folks wanna play Deathwatch...seriously, I got a guy who stopped his review of it for a paragraph or so to whine about "Muh Female Space Marines"...

[@YuriPRIMErpg]

One criticism I have for Deathwatch is that... there is a distinctive lack of vehicles and rules for them. You have all the weapons to actually cope with crewed warmachines, however the books do not cover them. You're not provided with stats nor rules, outside of fanmade materials which are of dubious quality at best. This is one wasted potential this game has. It is also one of the most demanding games to play, and unless you get people who are into Space Marines, who know and feel them, you ain't getting much back. If you take people who don't know much about SM, you yet again won't be playing the game about tough struggle against cosmic horrors, but rather yet another meme-hammer session with folk spouting chucklefuck lines fom alfabusa's vids. Love this game for one reason, yes you are powerful, but your foes are of equal status. You go against ancient monstrosities slumbering under the shroud of material reality, things truelly alien, and sourcebooks give you lots of new mysterious foes that are hand crafted for this region in particular. Of the standard atagonists the most fascinating are Necrons, who in their revised incarnation of lore, are much more scheeming and insidious. One huge letdown tho... are Tyranids, who I chose to completely ignore and never run a DW campaign about ever again... they are most boring, ridiculous, repetitive same-old, same-old, obligatory horde rushing you every few minutes. Problem is, once you fought them once, you've seen 90% of all Tyranid encounters (And I'm referring here to official adventures.) An epic strike at Hivemind bioship to plunt a virus there, is just loooooong drag of repeating the same routine. Sure you have a tyrant here or there, or a lictor some other time, but between you'd be sick of rolling round after round, the chor of grinding down much of hormagaunts and termagaunts. Jesus Christ, they are so boring... Combat with anyone else is actually fun, and the system is very tactical, as you have abilities and bonuses for working with your team and activating those squad powerups that give you extra moves under cover, or suppression resistance, or shoot and move... THAT SAID, this combat is good, as long as it's brief. Fighting too many hordes is not fun, contrary to what you might think. After a while it's just your players sitting quietly, abandoning any narration, any descriptions, just rolling in silence, muttering "I hit... 18 damage" "Okay, you killed another two nids... there's 43 left" "Oh joy..."

[@loonylenny]

1:33 what's that image have to do with the video

[@Mr_Welch]

It showcases the size disparity between Astartes and unmodified humans.