I think this is the best worst design I have ever done : Dyson Sphere program ep 10

[@asureaskie]

This is what the DSP community calls "black box crafting." Raw resources in, finished product out, and you never look at or touch the mystical inner workings. Edit: OR TOUCH! Need double production? Stamp down another.

[@gcl2783]

The Curiously Recurring Template Pattern (CRTP) is like that as well. It works, and you'll have less of a headache if you don't need to worry about how.

[@MelfiortheOne]

I prefer smelting raw resources separately, cause it takes a lot of space and energy. So I build forge worlds where I get all the ingots, glass, stone blocks, etc.

[@asureaskie]

@@MelfiortheOne Ditto, but different strokes for different folks.

[@mikhailgusev2394]

I did some rough calculations. To make a Dyson sphere so that the Earth is inside the sphere and Mars is outside, its radius should be around 200 million km. If we assume that the sphere itself is about 3.2mm thick (average solar panel without any wiring, reinforcement, batteries, armor plating, etc), the volume of the sphere itself is about 47,8% more than the volume of the Earth. What about the mass, you would ask. If we assume that the solar panels on Dyson sphere are made from CdTe (Cadmium telluride) which is only 5,9% more dence than the estimated average density of the Earth, it means that the mass of the sphere of just solar panels will be 1,56 of the mass of the Earth.

[@luipaardprint]

3.2 mm. might be on the high side though, it’s more likely to be a < 0.5 mm. foil solar panel. You don’t need any protection against oxygen and the like.

[@BlackKnight89K]

The warper build is the definition of "spagetti code". It's a piece of art.

[@lapisliozuli4861]

I’ve never felt as seen as when Francis mentioned the brain melting when planning blueprints. Also, I also appreciate the belt support. In my run against the Dark Fog, I built a belt-only mall which was horrifically functional. I’m talking 5- to 10-high belts with a surprise Satellite Pole because the lower tiers didn’t reach far enough.

[@approachingapoapsis]

To me, this is old-school designwork. I love a roboported circuitboard-esque supertrain bus as much as the next tech enjoyer, but hyperspecialized spaghetti will always be an old favorite. Decade old- modded minecraft (and earlier builds of Factorio that it inspired) were full of single-purpose machines. You get a mix with science blueprints usually. There's a difference in craft imo- like how on extremely old hardware some devs would just fill up memory to make it zero, or like. the spinning speed of magnetic drums in one old example I am always on team giant messy machinery

[@tyraelpl]

34:10 "saving ourselves one tile, might be worthwhile" sir, you amaze me with your guile!

[@aaronius932]

I like that Francis tries to teach people how to play factory games

[@callum.dokkodo]

Absolutely stunning, ungodly spaghetti. Thank you for birthing this genius. It's fucking beautiful

[@johnarmitage3452]

i really love the videos like this where you go through the struggles of designing

[@touchthesun]

As you get into the late game dyson sphere production, I highly recommend blueprinting a full planetary rail gun belt, and save the polar areas for ship launchers because they don't need line of sight. I do a single ring of rail guns on the equator, plus 2 rings on either side. That gives you very consistent launch speeds of solar sails, and you still have large chunks of the world available for manufacturing if needs be.

[@ScottOrd]

You had me at "Full planetary rail gun belt" 😎 Very cool!

[@touchthesun]

@@ScottOrd it takes a minute to set up, but it’s very satisfying to place drop down and watch it go

[@onlytwogenders420]

Bruh, this is my favorite factory style game ever. I love this game. It has come a loooong way since when I started a few years ago.

[@emmettraymond8058]

Holy crap, those vertical belts! A thing of beauty!

[@berticus0001]

Commenting before the end because I know I'll forget otherwise, use blue painted green pills on the ray receiver for a 400% boost, requires 480MWatts each to get 20 photons per minute, I think, pretty sure it's something like that.

[@FrancisJohnYT]

On this world we are good for now, but when we hit up the Blue giant star we might need to do something like that.

[@TKNagashima]

Graviton lens. They're really cheap and the ray receivers use only 1 every 10 mins.

[@DawidSikora]

@@FrancisJohnYT graviton lense also increase ray strength (the formula is crazy, you can look it up on wiki), so the boost is extremely big and the cost is miniscule. Also - if you use the lenses - please proliferate them

[@Tenebrousable]

Using raw resources, and profilirating them, is absolutely crazy extra complication, with little gain. There's always more to dig. And we have to be making extra diggers and centralized smelting regardless, as you scale up.

[@rickerman80]

On your Red Science you should also local demand some Hydrogen to take it from the Solar Sail factories. Also you can put Graviton Lenses (Proliferated) into the Ray Recievers to make them take more power, and have more uptime.

[@FrancisJohnYT]

Most of the production for the 1000k science is on the smelter world, but when I start in on the science modules I'll be sure to demand the hydrogen.

[@Wheezs]

I really like the idea of having a sat square to work in it makes it so you have a factory wall to fit in and that's when it becomes cool because you fit more stuff in

[@gerwinvandesteeg6624]

Look back at the fabrication, the dark swarm ones also include an upgraded science lab (to the right of the normal one in the fabrication list) that'll fix your production and size constraints there.

[@anthonylaplante9631]

i knew i was going to see something glorious when they updated the behavior of the belts. this is that something, thank you Francis

[@DocNo27]

FYI - KZbinr Nilaus has one of the most glorious mall designs I have seen. Great for pulling supplies off to make one off things like buildings, ships, etc.

[@aryath7711]

Francis: "Remember, the most precious thing is your time, so let's build totally standardized modules that you can just plop down without having to think about it. There is a comic about is it worth it, like, the amount of time you put into something to make it faster, is it actually worth the time as opposed to just doing the thing without saving the time." One episode later: "Let's spend 2 days and a good chunk of sanity to make a self-contained module that produces green science/space warpers - to save even more time and thinking!"

[@ThePiachu]

All throughout the episode I was thinking "did you plan for the blueprints to use upgraded machines? If not, all the work will be wasted!". But good that in the end you addressed it! My other thought was that maybe you can do some magic Fu with fidget spinners as well to do more crazy design, but you probably wouldn't beat the vertical belts they added...

[@DawidSikora]

14:54 when you build the distribution tower it loads the internal battery, the international stations charge by default 60 MW each, so if you put 10 stations quickly that's 600 MW just there. You can reduce the charge rate in the settings or just wait for a few minutes before these batteries load

[@NetherCloud]

If you use graviton lenses (proliferated) in the ray receivers it will give you 24 photons/min. It also multiplies power output by 4x so you should receive 64mw. It has the added benefit of making the line of sight to the dyson sphere possible to be 100% uptime no matter where it is on the planet.

[@Reeuwijk78]

I've never seen vertical belt spaghetti like that, wow!

[@MathewSan_]

Great video 👍

[@justinc.2656]

Those belts are giving me rollercoaster tycoon vibes

[@de4thscythe613]

Just look up basically any 'Dense' blueprint to see the final form of belt fu, 3 belts weaving in-between each other through some black magic

[@rl53]

"Need to sleep for 12 hours" with lovely dreams of spaghetti belts & wondering where that stray one is 🤣🤣

[@rastin277]

Dude, your design is legendary.

[@FrancisJohnYT]

Legendary in a bad way is still a compliment :)

[@ariscop]

A few years ago I spent many hours compacting designs with clearly unintended belt-fu, and was under the impression later updates prevented such shenanigans 33:10 I see instead that belts have only grown in power

[@johnsimpson6531]

If you make all your blueprints available, I'm going to wait to play again until you are finished them 😀

[@akathoth]

I sense a true master of the art of spaghetti.

[@nommy8599]

Love the combobulated chaos! What a glorious travesty! Any idea how this kind of thing impacts UPS, loaded or unloaded (other planet)? I'm afraid if you're not aware of impactful things you might end up wasting a lot of time on things that limit what you can achieve when you could've done then differently and used them, but as long as it's fun that's ok I guess. E.g someone mentioned stackers being taxing and to avoid if possible. I wonder if full, backed up conveyors are better, optimised like factorio or if that doesn't matter. Or what other things, if any, might create lag bottlenecks... GL

[@Phelix22]

I absolutely love your designs! I haven't really played around with the game since they allowed belts to go vertical, and that completely changes things. I am really concerned that you are putting all this effort into these builds and using Mk2 assemblers and Mk1 smelters though...I don't think this kind of finely tuned design won't work efficiently when you upgrade the machines! *Edit: never mind! 😝

[@MrSheep-sw7om]

Just so you know, you can change the height of the output stack on the supply towers so you don't need stacks as 4 is the maximum. I hope you didn't know this already or I feel really stupid i told you.

[@kanedb]

There is a new matrix lab too, you can use it to upgrade the normal ones instead of doubling the space needed with extra labs

[@annoyannoy]

31:20 There is a factory building game in roblox and this vertical spaghetti in limited space reminds me a lot of it. Too bad you can't build structures in the air here, now that'd be even more wicked, like a three dimensional circuit.

[@abhinavmehrotra]

The solar collectors, you can copy and drag them to copy the recipe. Also use graviton lens to remove the orbit limits for collectors.

[@antoniestrydom6367]

Remember to prolifirate your prolifirate. it increase the number of stacks you can prolifirate per unit of prolifirate and overall saves you... prolifirate.

[@guyincognito1406]

Let’s talk dealing with those fog seeds for a moment. I found it possible to power lock the hive core and prevent it from being able to build more structures. You need to leave a planetary base with relay intact sending matter to the hive and taking power from it, you then destroy the hive with an overwhelming fleet of course because you’re at that level… then you clear it all out disable your ships and weapons. Let the hive be rebuilt and it won’t be able to generate any power and will be locked from building. Then you can go to the base on planet and aggro it to drain it of power, haven’t tried without the base or destroying all of em, I leave 1. New seeds won’t be sent, there’s already a hive, but it’s stuck at just a core unable to function.

[@guyincognito1406]

I don’t know the long long term effects of this, if something eventually repairs it. This has worked for me for ~20 hours in game after discovery.

[@hansdampf640]

you must be burning them space-warpers like crazy Oo

[@Yardiff]

Note that the Self-Evolution Lab will produce matrices at 3x the standard Matrix Lab speed. Try making two dyson swarms with a radius bigger than the planet, with the "entrance point" for each swarm due north/south. Railguns on the north part of the planet point to the north swarm, south part of the planet point to the south swarm. Should be very little downtime for your railguns on the north/south bands.

[@DawidSikora]

52:10 you can try to cram the third magnet smelter or you can use the upgraded smelters for magnets instead

[@erawlins1]

I read that pile sorters are much less UPS efficient than regular ones. Might be good to save them only for when they are necessary

[@Gimli2022]

How do you actually plan how much output one of these can get? Like you set a goal, for example 100/min of whatever and then you notice it won’t fit. And then you redesign it all? Also on unipolar magnets and stuff: I got all my magnets for the smelters from dark fog farming. For me that was enough for all the facilities I need. One Tipp on dark fog farming: use Sr plasma turrets. The ammo ist quiet easy to get and the more „overkill“ dmg you do on them the faster the base levels. Laser turrets are quiet cheap to run but it takes forever to level a base to level 30 with them. After it’s fully leveled you can switch back to laser I guess.

[@acheron16]

I think that it's mostly useless to ship raw iron and copper everywhere. Iron only turns into plate and magnets and copper only turns into copper plates. It's better to just have a chunk where everything gets smelted and magnets turn into electromagnets (since magnets are only useful for electromagnet production). That way, you just import plates and electromagnets and can easily save a lot of space.

[@TheBashasaurus]

Only here you find someone dedicating an entire planet to smelt and prep every ingredient to never use them and do it from 0 again anyway :D

[@Justin-gv3lp]

You could probably just replace one of those smelters with a red plane smelter or whatever it’s called. It’ll double the output of one of your smelters which basically is the same as adding another one

[@Polytonal3]

“Get Proliferated On, Chump”

[@alexsiemers7898]

I’d love to whip up some modular designs for you to try out, but after cramming 720 rockets/min and 10k sails/min of production onto a single planet using dark fog tech my brain is too fried to keep playing this game lmao

[@TheMalT75]

Did not expect that, I'm almost disappointed. That is exactly the type of design paradigm that I always fall for, and I would have expected FJ to overcome that lure. A glorious mess with too many belts for a tuned ratio of input and output that serves to spit out a specific end-product... It's the main way I play DSP and i HATE it. Instead of embracing your design challenge -- which makes my brain itch and twitch because I really really want to do it -- I will do the exact opposite: modular subunits for all intermediate products: one 24x25 ILS unit for smelting steel, one ILS unit for magnetic coils, and so on. Have logistic vehicles sort out supply and centralize proliferation on the belts leaving an ILS. I'll probably go mad trying to balance production rates, though, but either way lies glorious DSP madness! I'd be curious to learn the reason you abandoned that type of approach???

[@nommy8599]

1:41 Wish there was a mod you could turn on at times like these that just rendered everything at full brightness.

[@TheAustereman]

sanity is overrated when machine must grow

[@jmatya]

that direct insertion between cog and el.magnet around 37:35 does not go through a proliferator. is that not required? (just asking since I havent played since this mechanics came in)

[@boozerbear60]

Abomination, schmabomination. That is a thing of beauty, Francis.

[@vulkandrache1928]

A friend of mine build up an entire planets worth of production for rockets with a handful of powerplants resulting in 0.5% power. And then let it run to start building parts of the sphere.

[@plumerscrak]

I just noticed this, but you can proliferate your proliferators. Might want to do that where you're making them before they're distributed. Works wonders! Lenses in the ray receivers I think increases their output too. How did you get your belts to be vertical?

[@knier]

Protein folding comes to mind looking at that build

[@TheBenlueks]

theres a blueprint pack i downloaded form some other youtuber. you can totaly kill it fast but it makes the game easy i guess

[@joehelland1635]

Always feed grav lenses (proliferated) to photon generating collectors.

[@Zaughon]

I havn't played in a while, but would you be able to save space if you used the power things that provide power over a large area? It might be able to power both sides so you only need power every 2nd row? Also, instead of having to add proliferators to every output from the towers, wouldn't it be better to proliferate the items where they're produced, before they go into the tower? Only a small chunk of your sanity? That seems like a good trade for being able to produce all of that. How did you manage to sleep while it wasn't finished? It'd be driving me crazy, just laying in bed trying to think of solutions :P

[@FrancisJohnYT]

Oh I was thinking about it as I went to sleep and was right back in when I woke up, some things just get stuck in the brain.

[@VICARI0S]

Smart af.

[@MrHeroZero7]

Never played but curious for making compact builds. Can machines stack? it looks like science machines can. Could you just go vertical when you need a lot of the same machine

[@poppy3318]

DSP also know as The Bottleneck Chaser.

[@theral056]

Francis, I was wondering if you will be doing satisfacty 1.0 which is releasing soon. Just looking at this video (and many before), I always wondered if satisfactory scratches your itch, or if it's too much of an aesthetics/manual labor kind of game to make the cut? I myself have largely not playing it those past years, waiting for 1.0 (which looks great) to justify putting up with all the manual work involved. Just curious if you similarly were just waiting for 1.0 to make it worth the heavy time investment, or if it's just not your cup of tea in general?

[@PaoloBosi]

WHAT WAS THAT SPAGHETTI ABOMINATION AT 52:57 JOHN??? wHAT WAS IT???

[@juanrobertocuellarlozano5646]

dammit you are not proliferating your proliferator, thats the first thing you gotta do, always.

[@Virebird]

Any particular reason you're avoiding the upgraded labs in the upgraded form of the build? Seems like they'd solve your need for a double stack of science labs - or are they not a 2x improvement?

[@PingPong-em5pg]

Most used word: proliferate Have you tried to proliferate the proliferator?

[@Taliseth]

Love the module design, I wonder if the next thing Francis will do is design pizza slice modules. now to watch the rest of the episode 😂 Edit: Wow not played the game for a bit, interesting things you can do with belts now missed that update or did i just never notice. Had a good laugh at some of your builds with those belt mechanics, abomination sounds spot on! Also forgot how much power my Science build consumed, was like 18W for 1000 science sounds like way too much. I humbled myself when i spun up my save.. i'm using 55GW, 480Mw per ray receiver producing 2748 critical photons locally or 24 per machine using graviton lenses, though i must have missed a few somewhere as math gets me to 114.5 ray receivers. But the crazy thing is even, that's not even all i'm producing or consuming, can't believe i just lost track of power consumption like that after a while, suppose it helps that it comes from the sphere. Power stats screen doesn't seem to include ray receiver consumption sadly. Regarding blueprints, make sure you build them in the smallest (closer to the poles), then you know they work on any part of the planet sections.

[@arisrayden]

huh since when can you go up multiple levels with belts on just one tile? was this always possible? how did i not know about this??

[@melananighthawk]

It was released in an update a couple of weeks ago.

[@arisrayden]

​@@melananighthawk ah yes then it makes perfect sense that i didnt know. thank you nighthawk

[@starlightbreaker561]

it's a good pain

[@asureaskie]

Shouldn't you be proliferating your photons before processing them? Or are they one of the few items that can only have their speed boosted and not their productivity?

[@guyincognito1406]

They only do speed up like you thought. Same with antimatter fuel rods production… but not the fuel itself.

[@spaz4269]

Ah yes. I see you have embraced the spaghetti. I look forward to watching the slow devolution into insanity. Before long you are going to be recording "ONI Base Review"-style videos, decrying the sins that you have committed in this video. :)

[@spaz4269]

Paraphrasing: "A mall to produce your mall. " Yes. Yes. Embrace the dark side!

[@GyattGPT]

dyson sphere programming 😀

[@thorandrekolbeinsen479]

Butter

[@artic729]

You dont have to fly to a planet to see its power levels or production. Use the statistics tab

[@johnlg91]

Do you plan to make tutorials later on?

[@vexxer209]

Your brain hurts designing and playing the game. My brain hurts just watching it and trying to keep up.

[@stefanoehme1083]

Number 8 😊

[@johnfoushee6140]

You’re doing this just to make your OCD viewers’ eyes bleed 😭

[@leftblank131]

Così tanti spaghetti che ora parlo italiano

[@beheroot]

do you want to waste hours of DSP and achive little? If so, dyson sphere can be painted :> Every. Single. Peace. Can you paint clover on hexagonal sphere?:P

[@atreidesonthethames3715]

Stupid is the opposite of what that design is my good sir

[@FrancisJohnYT]

You did not make it as far as the Green science bit when you wrote this I'm guessing, the solar sail one is so pretty by comparison :)

[@atreidesonthethames3715]

@@FrancisJohnYT lol you guessed right but I can't say much about it, I'm a complete amateur at this game even though I love it

[@matthewghilarducci5033]

I understand making self contained builds in mid game to make a certain amount of science or sails per minute, but end game your brain breaking module design makes no sense. Even if it did make sense to do it this way, don't import raw resources, import ingots , import gears, import deuterium. Putting fractionators in a modular build to just make a bit of deuterium is so inefficient. End game should be easy pastable blue prints for entire equator quadrants for every major component in the game. Need more? Paste. I'm talking like whole planets dedicated to quantum chips. Work backwards to figure out all the supporting stuff you need for your goal per minute. Once done, blueprint the entire planet. Makes end game so easy to ramp up.

[@Px05119]

While I understand his desire for self contained "builds" I don't even think they're viable in mid game. Once I get towers, I immediately start making single item outposts for raw and intermediate

[@matthewghilarducci5033]

@@Px05119 yea. I don't do self contained builds in mid game either, but I don't think it's a bad idea to make sure you don't eat all your resources by creating too much demand.

[@FrancisJohnYT]

Oh this is not to smart for scalability, but the challenge of making these builds is so much fun. For late game planetary blueprints are far more scalable. What is the TPS limit in science roughly assuming a decent machine, it's about 10k-20k in factorio. I want a module for dyson ships to go with the solar sails so I can with little effort set up as many as I need to mass produce dyson spheres.

[@mrShift_0044]

​​@@FrancisJohnYT oh, i remember that i wanted to ask: will you play new Factorio DLC that comes out not much later this year? also same question for Captain of Industry, is it high on the List? it will add trains fairly soon

[@Taliseth]

​@@FrancisJohnYT FPS limit depends on what you call a limit If I show the dysonsphere in 1 system my FPS tanks to 5|10 and that's with 5k White science and totally not focussed on FPS efficiency if I disable showing it goes back up to 20|40 to 25|40 My system is however from 2013 and only 4 cores currently stock speed. I benchmarked a 5800x before and it scored roughly 3x in those benchmarks. I reckon you should be able to do at least 15k if not 20k. I'm pretty sure i can squeeze mine to 10k if I made an effort to optimize some things without the FPS dropping too much. Though possibly should've build the Dyson Spheres around stars with higher luminosity to start with. I'm planning to build to the limit of my current PC and when i then finally build a new one see how much better it is, how better to see if it was worth the money haha. GPU seems to make no difference, mine is pretty much iddling when playing the game.

[@someguy-lt2op]

Pointless comment