SHOP TIPS

THANKS FOR WATCHING
Tubalcain talks about the machinability rating of steel in a 2 part video.

[@sarahdelacruz5208]

Your day can go down the toilet, nothing will go your way, and nothing ever works the way you want it to. But it’s always nice to sit down and hear a familiar voice. Thanks pete

[@mrpete222]

Thank you very much

[@savage11smw33]

Great video, the knowledge these seasoned craftsman have is invaluable. Unfortunately, very few of these men are around today and the knowledge is being lost . Love these videos. Thanks for sharing much appreciated.

[@Panzerzimmerpflanze]

Never had a shop class in school and seems you just can't find a beginner's course for machining where I live; absolutely love your videos - learn tons from them, thank you so much!

[@mrpete222]

Thanks

[@aj9270]

As always Thank you Mr. Pete for a very informative video and your time in making them !

[@mrpete222]

Thanks for watching

[@MegaLostOne]

Thanks for the info on %, the Ryerson book looks to be handy for information on different metals. I tried to find one used for a decent price but wasn't having much luck so I went to their site and ordered one of their new books for under $10. Funny since all of their used books on auction sites where going in the $20-$40 range. I am hoping the new book will include any newer metals as well.

[@mrpete222]

👍

[@alien4x487]

still digging into your older posts. always good info!

[@AmateurRedneckWorkshop]

Great video. I am glad to see some real machine shop info. Most of the channels are wandering away from that. I am going to try to find some of that leadloy 300 or 12L14 whichever they call it. Thanks for sharing.

[@pierresgarage2687]

Hi mrpete, Informative video, usually it's easier to get nice finishes on heavier cuts, like a few thousands cuts will ruin your nice finish. Also you might include the nose radius effects in your demos. Thanks for sharing.

[@km6vvmarconett258]

Sorry, late reply. 12L14 is a joy to cut on a small Machine such as a Sherline. I find I need to cut drill rod for shafts, and it is tough! Hard to hold it well enough (1/8" dia) to thread. I've found that a 3/8" Jacobs chuck allows me to grip it better then the sherline 3-Jaw chucks. I dare to think of the runout of this chuck. Very good information! I enjoy your videos!

[@cgprecision]

Don't forget 1144 stress proof, machines like butter, awesome finish, high tensile strength and heat treatable, great vids, I enjoy them!

[@mrpete222]

Thanks you very much

[@pauln1557]

Good video, Free machining steel is SO nice to work with on hobby lathes and mills. When I was new to home machining I used what ever bits of steel I could find, such as off cuts of rebar, but rebar is terrible to machine! Then, I starting buying cold rolled stock, better than rebar. Then, I 'discovered' free machining steel - pure bliss!! Just a shame it took me 3 years to discover....

[@darkobul1]

Thank you very much for this video. I came from europe in US and dont know nothing about how this steels are marked(not that i knew much there either) i just figure out thanks to your video that they sold me hot rolled as cold rolled... i will be more careful next time. Thank you!

[@ernerstowerdum3942]

Great video. If you machine with hss tools, you can see the differences between different kind of steel. Using a base of speed like 20 m/min or 60fpm clearly seem chips of different colors because the dificult of machining, includes the edge of tool has loosen the cutting edge. The noise and vibration and heat are other indicators of machinability. A heated chip indicates little or nule machinability. Thank you for your giant work, lots of time for transmit your knowledge

[@mrpete222]

👍👍👍👍

[@DaveEtchells]

A great video I’m sure I’ll refer back to. It gives me some idea what to expect from the different steels. (It’s unfortunate that YT tends to want to show me your newer videos, when what I most need are many of your older ones that cover a lot of the basics. Hopefully by commenting on nes like this, it will show me more :-) Thanks as always for the years (and years!) of wisdom you’re sharing with all of us!

[@mrpete222]

You can find all 1500 of my videos by simply searching Tubalcain

[@robertfournier947]

Another informative post. I try to stay away from the cutting oil when machining, the fumes. Had enough in the shop. Might be good subject to kick around.

[@mrpete222]

Thanks

[@ClownWhisper]

I paint my metal as well I use the same color coding is Alro Steel. A couple of times I couldn't remember the combo of white and black so I called them up and they said they're white and black is 4150. And then I remembered having the 4150 back in my rack so it paid off. I love 4150 by the way it's so good for making tools In a good tip is to make sure you keep your little cans of spray paint if that's what you use in a box that you can take inside for the winter if you work outside in your garage like I do or they will be useless come spring

[@catherineharris4746]

Simply outstanding! Exactly what i was looking for!💖👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 Thanks!

[@garyc5483]

Very interesting. Many thx for sharing this tutorial parts 1 & 2

[@mrpete222]

Thanks

[@rogueart7706]

Weird...i was just thinkin that somebody needs to do a video about how to machine steel and this video popped up. I hate machining steel, I especially hate tapping steel, and it's my worst dread in the shop. I replace steel with cast iron anytime I can. Thanks for enlightening me Mr. Pete.

[@tonys2924]

Ebay is another good source for procuring small quantities of various metals. There are many businesses that sell stock there for a premium, but if you put in some time searching, you can find some great deals offered by individual sellers. I've been able to get very near scrap prices on many occasions.

[@NOBOX7]

great video , thanks for posting mr Tublecain

[@broken1965]

In hydraulic manufacturing we have been using most common 1144 - 4140 - 1215- 1050 - 4140 Pre hard

[@mechaform]

Needed useful info on steel for hobby use. Figured MrPete would have done a video.

[@EddieVBlueIsland]

The difference in finish will become more distinctive between the steels the more parts you run due to tool wear. The technical measure of machinability is based on tool wear over time - such as the taylor tool test, Volo tool test, Republic form tool test, etc. finish is typically an output or consequence of tool wear - a few test pieces will not show does not show resolvable differeneces in finish.

[@mrpete222]

Thanks

[@bubster1981]

A very brave man you are Mr Pete, taking on this subject LOL KZbinrs will debate this to no end. Usually what happens with man when no one really has a clue in hell

[@mrpete222]

I made this video months ago, and with held it for a while for that very reason. Almost deleted it.

[@alvinomelgoza2887]

Thanks very much for your time and knowledge.

[@taiwanluthiers]

I find that if you use carbide, the harder steel (heat treated) tends to machine with better finish. For example I machine some 4140 and it was hard to get a good finish unless you take some very heavy cuts, but once you heat treat them, they come out like mirror.

[@stanburdick9708]

been getting my 12L14 off of fleabay just got 6 5/8 x12in. bars for $21 shipped, I use it to practice making nuts and bolts

[@DSCKy]

informative video... thanks. I don't know why, but the best finish I've ever gotten was on 01 tool steel I believe? It looked like a mirror on nearly every pass.

[@mrpete222]

You had a great tool

[@DSCKy]

I checked, it was actually A2 and I'm pretty sure the tool was a tcmt. It was one of the first times I ever got the gold-to-blue chips and they were breaking very nicely into a little curl. I was really shocked at the finish as I usually don't get nearly as good of a finish as most of you guys on youtube. But then, I'm usually working with lesser grades of steel. I'm often envious of the finishes you guys get.

[@cat637d]

Very interesting and informative, I was not aware that lead was a component of any steel alloys!

[@pedro1066]

this is one of the very few videos that I keep referring back to! its incredibly useful. many thanks for doing it. if the opportunity presents itself, please can we have one for the different stainless steels and different aluminium alloys? and bronze vs gunmetal?There are plenty of people talking about this subject on the net, but you are the only one actually chucking up some stock and showing us!

[@billshiff2060]

If I recall- A material with a machinability rating of 100 really means it can be cut @ 100sfm which is the speed at which HHS tools will have a life of 60min. For carbide tools it is 100 x 3 and for coated higher still maybe 100x6ish. So machinability is mainly about tool life. It's not an exact science but has always given me a realistic starting point. So this test with coated carbide @ 150sfm doesn't really tell us much. Maybe Part 2?

[@EVguru]

I find the SAE numbers tricky to remember and the modern steel designations even worse. The old UK WWII 'Emergency Numbers' are a lot simpler. EN1A(Pb) is equivalent to 12L14 and there is also an unleaded EN1A which equates to 1215. I keep some EN3B (1018) in stock if I know I might weld it. I'll also have some EN8 (1140) for shafts and fasteners and EN24 (4340) for high strength applications. There are loads of information and conversion charts out there on the web. In the UK searching the web and ebay by EN number should find you a supplier. BTW 12L14 IS weldable, you just SHOULDN'T! You'll end up breathing in Lead fumes and the weld will have poor strength.

[@mrpete222]

Thanks Paul--very confusing

[@WG1807]

Gosh yes, I'm self-employed (in the UK) and so a lot is self-taught and self-researched. Things can pass you by more easily when you're on your own and it's maybe harder to keep up with changes. I learned much of my engineering in the mid to late 1980s and a lot of the technical data from good quality books of an earlier era, even from just the 1970s. All the steel designations I learned were the old EN series. I managed to get a grip on the information quite easily and quite quickly. But by the time I got settled in, I discovered that all the designations had changed. They seemed extremely confusing. Have they not even changed again since? I can't get my head around it and have stuck with the EN numbers, at least in my little world and in my own head.

[@mrpete222]

Wolf Jaw Forge Its impossible to keep up as you get older.

[@WG1807]

Ha ha Pete yes, that's true to a degree. But, you get better at your job. You are more experienced and so you know more. You can't buy that experience, as they say. Great videos as always. Thanks a lot.

[@mclarpet]

Ah, Jim lad, En 30B - there be buggery on the high seas tonight ! ( or is that buggery in the machine shop tonight ? )

[@auburnfolsom]

Very Good information ! Thanks for sharing with all of us !

[@mclarpet]

The only way to deal with the deleterious effects of copper and tin upon the hot rolling characteristics of steels is to incorporate the appropriate amount of nickel. Imagine those curly, stringy chips in a roller box tool !

[@Max_Marz]

We run a lot of 12L at my workplace. Sooooo much fun, easier than aluminum.

[@hansfritz7827]

Thanks for the interesting video. We call the leaded steel automat steel here in sweden. I guess its the same stuff. I use to run the last finish pass with a carbide tip for aluminium on any steel only some 100/mm to get a very nice surface. Regards

[@mrpete222]

Thanks for watching

[@morgan4xl]

I get all my bar stock steel from hoppers behind machine shops. I take all I please and they don't seem to mind, but that is only if no one is there on Sunday mornings or at two A.M.

[@Cnctrldotcom]

Interesting video, I wonder though if the advent of tungsten carbine bits has to some extent made the old machinability ratings meaningless. From the examples in this video it looks like even very hard steel machines as well as the softer steels (admittedly it look like the drill steel was at the limit). I wonder what the result would be like if you'd used a HSS tool instead?

[@mrpete222]

That would be another good video topic thanks

[@roadrunnerricka4441]

great video mrpete. you are a wealth of knowledge.

[@mrpete222]

Thanks

[@dumonr71]

Luckily we have Speedy Metals in Appleton Wi that carriers a lot of stuff and will fill small orders.

[@not2fast4u2c]

Online Metals has 12L14 If you buy random lengths under a foot You get it a little cheaper

[@A3Kr0n]

I've bought from them a few times before. No problems.

[@jedislame]

The thing with 1018 is from what I've heard, it can be anything that gets scrapped into a molten piece of stock. Sometimes I've had easy 1018, sometimes I feel like I'm machining a recycled motorcycle crankshaft. Mr Pete I have a bar of 1018 I would love to send to you, and tell me what you think about it's 'Machinability' It has certs to being 1018, but I feel like it's unobtainium. I've broken 4 drills and 3 taps trying to make my piece.

[@mrpete222]

No, do not send it. I have worked with that type of metal and I dislike it greatly. Throw metal away that is problematic, and start over

[@petertaylor9408]

Over the years buying tool steel the color coding is not standard supplier to supplier. Some types may be the same but not always. The high chrome and nickel steels (d2,a2,&hss) are very difficult machine and grind.

[@mrpete222]

True

[@turbocobra]

Interesting video. On the hot rolled does it get easier to machine once you break through the mill scale, or is that not really a factor?

[@mrpete222]

I don't know if it gets easier, but the scale dull the tool if you take a real light cut .

[@philipciarrocchi8146]

Great info for the introduction to machining. I don't know if you have any video introducing people to some of your stainless steels used in aerospace industry with a high nickel content. These alloys would be interesting to those who take for granted how far metals have come to build everything from nuclear reactors to satellites.

[@Godshole]

Another very informative video, Thanks Mr Pete :)

[@andrewraugh1622]

Thank you for this video! Very informative and helpful!

[@mrpete222]

Thanks

[@TheMiniMachineShop]

This is 180 degrees from the comparisons I've done in videos. I found the hard the material, the better the finish and 12L14 is the worst for me. LOL. Cheers ....

[@michaeldjoven7869]

Thank-you very much for this one! Mike

[@mrpete222]

You are welcome

[@MaturePatriot]

With your voice, did you ever consider voice over commercials? -The Ryerson Steel Handbook shows their color code for each steel, but there is no standard color scheme between manufacturers. - No REBAR? Rebar is an interesting metal. Once you get through the hard, outer layer, it become more machinable towards the center. About 40 miles from me is what's known as a metal super-market. You can buy as little or as much as you want, of all types and sizes of metals. Good demonstration.

[@toddlfrank]

If it was up to me 12l14 would be the main steel I would use. I love the way it machines.

[@kaieteurcanada]

except if you need to ever weld it.

[@TheMaddogronh]

Mr. Pete, when you referred to drill rod is it used to drill wells ? I have access to a few 20ft sticks of it 1" diam. It's shines like stainless but is highly magnetic, Thanks

[@the4thj]

I always revisit your videos. Trying to find out why on earth I can't turn 1/2" sized bolts down to around 3/8" without getting erratic finish lines (trying to do my part and recycle old stock for the good of man) just trying to make the spring-loaded piece point for a tap guide. It is driving me crazy.

[@mrpete222]

do not recycle. Start with good materials

[@kirkswater]

Hi Mr. Pete - appreciate you so much over the years! Finally have a small shop set-up and looking to start learning hands on. Other than starting to machine them, is there a way to see the difference between the 12L14 and the 1018? I brought home two pieces, 1 each type 1-1/2 Round Bar from the metal supplier yesterday and they're not marked and I can't tell them apart?

[@mrpete222]

Take sample cuts. You will be able to notice the difference.

[@Panzerzimmerpflanze]

Also, if you were to try to get a smooth finish on tool steel, would a final light pass at very slow feed rate be the best or is there a "best" method for getting a final quality finish on machine steel?

[@davidpetersonharvey]

Looks like you can make springs and chips at the same time. ;-)

[@Morkvonork]

Hello, do you know a metal that is easy to soft solder and not as expensive as copper alloys like brass?

[@mrpete222]

No--copper alloys are always easy. Steel is much more difficult

[@backyardmachinist]

Does anyone have a link to a PDF of that Ryerson book? Thank you

[@madaboutpix]

thanks, again a great production!

[@mrpete222]

You are welcome

[@leebarnhart831]

I always felt hot roll finished better than cold roll.

[@samterian7694]

if the government wants to bring jobs back, start by training machinists.

[@Strum2223]

Tubalcain, I think I understand the machinability, but how do you know what steel you need for a specific application (I don't have a machinists bible) Is all relevant information found inside the handbook?

[@mrpete222]

I think you can find info on the internet

[@Strum2223]

Yes, it sounds like a dumb questions, but you would need to know what your searching for to find a type of steel on the internet. I was asking because when you're watching fabrication videos on the computer. Everyone always says the job requires "such and such". You know what I mean? It was always some alloy I've never heard of. Is that an experience thing or did they just google "best metal for x job"

[@mrpete222]

Brandon P I'm like you, I often don't know. Their drawings often specify the steel. I used only a few that I was familiar with and ordered from the catalogs. Go to this website www.online metals .com. Read up on it.

[@chemech]

mrpete222 Some engineers get really involved in selecting the alloys for the job... For chemical plants and oil refineries and spacecraft and medical devices, that can be vital... For a huge range of projects, good old A36 cold-rolled structural carbon steel is pretty good - it's kind of amazing how many things get built from that particular alloy... (It's got a fairly wide range of tolerance for inclusions) So, the answer is: it depends upon what you want your finished part to do, and how much you are willing to pay for that performance. There are lots of publications out there for selecting specific alloys for specific applications, and they can get pretty confusing, very darned fast... I'm an engineer, and I still punt things over to the metallurgist when things get tricky...

[@litany99]

I think what must it endure, what kind of rust will form, what are the effects that will make the material selection a failure. It is not rocket science, it is material selection. The ryerson book, the metal description, and machinist handbook are guides. The seasoning from making something that you get to watch fail really helps the research process. Feeling the difference in the material really helps. Excellent demonstration Mr Pete. I hope you go deeper on this topic.

[@TABE-O]

Thanks. That’s really helpful

[@letskillsumtime7520]

Fantastic video. Tyvm!!

[@mrpete222]

Thanks

[@snipper1ie]

Something stuck from my metal work classes, The Besemer Converter.

[@joe51chevy7]

mrpete222 Have you ever machined any 1144 or “stress proof”?

[@jpdemont]

Great video. Thanks!

[@coffeefish]

No rust on the drill stock?

[@dbeierl]

Was that .050 on radius or diameter?

[@dumonr71]

What type of applications would you use the Ledloy steel?

[@andybaldman]

Making youtube videos.

[@darkobul1]

I paid 1$ per pound for "cold rolled"(well half of it was actually hot rolled as i have discovered now other half is profile not rod) and 3$ for pound of aluminum and stainless. I got really suprised how well stainless i was able to machine on my g0602 small lathe that i have doubt that it was stainless(it looks like it very shiny and heavy and non magnetic). Is there a way to be sure what kind of stainless i got? I keep hearing that is hard to be machined...

[@mrpete222]

There are many types of SS. Theres no determining the type. Just machine a little & see how it works. Some machines quite well--others , impossible.

[@chemech]

mrpete222 Work hardening can mess up the machinability of what was a good machining blank... Heat is very much your enemy with stainless, which is why flood cooling - even with a garden sprayer and tap water! - can make the difference between dull & broken tools versus smooth cuts... Ask me how I know...

[@NOBOX7]

mrpete222 yes it takes over a year to make a average sizerocket engine because of this

[@sasaminic9095]

Ajde da probam ja da ti odgovorim. Nije tacno da se nerdjajuci tesko obradjuje. Sta vise, ume da bude jako mek. Sa druge strane ima ih mnogo vrsta. Nerdjajuce boce za tecni azot su mekse sto su hladnije, ako bi pale i dosle u kontak sa n2 pukle bi i to bi lia katastrofa. Ovako, dodju u kontakt sa n2 moksaju i samo se ulube, tecga zdrze unutra. E sad, taj sto se lako obradjuje, je samo mozda vise podlozan intekristalnoj koroziji koja ga izjeda pocgrwnicama zrna, i ne vidi se dok ne pukne. Dakle mozda je 'losijeg' kvaliteta-uslovno reecno naravno, ili jecsamo u normalizovanom stanju. Probaj da okalis malo, pa da ga obradis. Po toj ceni, ja bi se igrao i sa deset kg samo da utvrdim u cemu je stvar.:-)

[@darkobul1]

Da to je moguce i nemogu znati jer neznam koji grade nerdjajuceg celika sam kupio tako da ostaje da probam kad budem sa sigurnoscu nasao izvor koji mi moze dati takvu informaciju. Sa druge strane mislim da su ljudi u pravu gore sto su rekli. Ja sam koristio misting sistem i predpostavljam da to nije dozvolilo celiku da se usled pregrijavanja stvrdne. Vecina videa sto sam vidio poteskoce u obradi SS-a su bile bez ikakvog hladjenja. Ali tek cu saznati kad nadjem SS sa tacnom oznakom kao sto je 304 stainless jer moze bit lako to sto si rekao da je ovo neki meksi SS.

[@pjhalchemy]

Think you are right about being a nuisance, I know I have been! ~¿@ Luckily have a small scrap place close but ya have to watch what you get and know your prices or you can crawl out of there backwards sometimes. Interesting chip test and being able to see the rough/finish swarf was great. Thanks for the primer and the remembrance that I have a Ryerson book somewhere of 80's vintage and how great they are as a reference.

[@mrpete222]

Thanks for some good comments

[@mikeadrover5173]

As always, thanks’ for taking the time to make this video! And I support this site. ~M~

[@NMranchhand]

Interesting, but why doesn’t 12L14 weld?

[@900stx7]

I think its the lead content.

[@zombieresponder]

There's no real difference in machinability of cold roll and hot roll of the same specification. I machine 1018 HR and CR on a regular basis at work. The only difference between the two is the mill finish, meaning how the steel mill finished it. Use the correct feedrate and surface speed for the material and you'll almost always get a good finish.

[@900stx7]

Agreed, i've machined lots of both and find no difference in machineabilty.

[@Francis362003]

Online metals. com give you what ever you need, and plastic.

[@mrpete222]

Yes

[@mrayco]

Is drill rod similar to hss or its kind of hss ?????

[@mrpete222]

Drill rod is tool steel, unhardened.

[@mrayco]

@@mrpete222 so high speed steel is another story would you cover it sir .. thanks for replying.

[@mrsensable]

Well it looks like i have to test my indicator now. LOL because a carpenter needs a test indicator.

[@mrpete222]

lol

[@68sweetnovember]

Excellent

[@mrpete222]

Thanks

[@MrJgstoner]

oh thank you!

[@newstart49]

I had an unknown 1" piece of steel that just wouldn't turn. Horrible finish, no matter the speed, HSS or carbide cutter, or feed rate. It appeared to have hard spots in it.

[@mrpete222]

Yes, when I run into a place like that, I hide it in the garbage

[@bsdubois]

Tubalcain, I found the website for Ryerson and hoped they might offer a printed catalog. I could not find a printed catalog, however, their entire metals catalog is available electronically. The URL for their electronic catalog is: www.ryerson.com/en/Products/Metals. I hope this may prove useful. Sincerely, Brían S. Du Bois

[@g1sokool669]

I spent over 40 years making steel. I have degree in metallurgy as well as degree manufacturing engineering. All of the bars were produced as not rolled steel, food rolling is done to give the steel a smoother surface, improve dimensional accuracy, and modify the mechanical properties of the steel. I found your grading of the steels to be very misleading. My I enjoy watching your videos as they are educational as well entertaining. This one, unfortunately, oversimplified the subject matter.

[@willcojak9650]

Mr. Pete you do sound a little like Jimmy.

[@mrpete222]

Thanks for watching

[@andymandyandsheba4571]

i was always told a poor workman blames his tools is ledloy steel a softer steel than the others

[@mrpete222]

Not a whole lot. I think it tells in the chart in the video

[@andymandyandsheba4571]

ah right will take another look thank you mr pete

[@MrShobar]

Ledloy is a nice material. One drawback: It cannot be welded.

[@binness]

That explains why MrPete said it then, so please don't bother to tell us things that have been said on the video.

[@MrShobar]

I'll continue to say anything I want. Just DISAPPEAR.

[@jeremydoblinger3609]

12L14 is not commonly welded but sometimes it is weled..it can be done with a little caution and metalurgy knowledge..

[@nkelly9]

I like your stuff very informative However i just saw your film about killing moles I was under the impression that you were an enlightened human being, hovering above the average. After seeing your performance on the mole video a feeling of disgust washes over me. It appears obvious that the "perfection" of the clip of your lawn overrides your involvement with nature and your surroundings. I hope you realize that moles were around a long time before you arrived upon the scene and that they fulfill an important biological role in the natural order of things. I assumed, through your videos, that you were a more learned and enlightened type of human being than your average human being. I realize, after seeing your treatment of moles, that I was wrong about those assumptions and I cannot help thinking that if every human being was as ignorant about all nature's critters then we and the planet will eventually be doomed by such mindless actions. Such a shame.

[@StanErvin-yo9vl]

Thanking you for all you teach me, Lyle. 👉👍👈🙏☕🍩🏆📽️🎞️🎬💾💿📀ᕙ⁠(⁠ ͡⁠°⁠ ͜⁠ʖ⁠ ͡⁠°⁠)⁠ᕗ