MACHINE SHOP TIPS #79 Aligning Lathe Centers pt 2 of 2 tubalcain

[@bob2020rs2]

Hello Tubalcain, I would like to let you know how much you are impacting this World. I along with most of your viewers are learning lessons you can not put a price on! Each one of us is learning something that is changing this World for the better. Thank you...Thank you...Thank you! You are not a selfish person. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, you are making this a better place! Your friend Bob2020rs.

[@Ph4n_t0m]

These are excellent and, as another commenter said, priceless videos - I come from a European High School education and I don't think my school has _ever_ had any kind of shop class. The general demise of shop class in the U.S. (I think there are only 3 or 4 schools that still have 'shop' class) and Europe (probably even fewer) is a truly tragic thing so keeping this knowledge alive is critical. Thank you!

[@vincentperratore4395]

Too true, unfortunately! The worst thing that modern industry ever did was to establish their manufacturing processing plants overseas, to take advantage of cheap local labor, but in doing so they killed our own ability here at home to manufacture those very goods which are vital to a nation, to say nothing of training our own peoole!

[@StanErvin-yo9vl]

@@vincentperratore4395 Agree. Keeping knowledge home keeps a vibrant economy!

[@kevincoombes3600]

I think your videos are so enjoyable to watch I can learn so much from them thank you very much for the time and effort that you put into them. Please keep up the good work that you are doing.

[@tskarzin]

Thanks very much for your videos, I have been in the trade for 37 years but have spent the last 15 or so in the front office of our shop. It just makes me feel good to see a tradesman of your caliber. You bring back many good memories of working on the shop floor. Please keep posting.

[@hphma]

I cant' agree more as to what Christopher Hite said. We need more of you. THANK YOU!

[@josepharmstrong8005]

sir i learn so much from your video's, please keep on educating those of us that want to be educated on the ways of a solid crafts man , again Thank you.

[@mrpete222]

+Joseph Armstrong Thanks for watching

[@joeselbalasta2085]

mrpete222

[@christopherhite4088]

I just wanted to thank you for the incredible time and effort you have put in to your videos. I am sure they will be watched, and enjoyed for many years. I wish I was your neighbor, as a mentor such as you would be amazing to have. I have watched every one of your videos from start to finish. Keep up the good work!

[@nitsujcbr1975]

I wished I grew up next door to you so I could have hung out in your shop and learned.

[@RedlineRennsport]

I've gotten the mill working fairly well and am quite interested in taking a look at the Logan that has not been run since I was a child. You've been a great resource for info and motivation. Now with your videos, I DO know something! I only wish you lived down the road so I could pump you for every bit of your vast experience. Thanks again, and keep the vids flowing. No topic is too insignificant to be helpful!

[@RedlineRennsport]

Thank you Mr. Peterson for sharing all of the vast knowledge you possess. My Father has the very same Logan lathe as yourself, still with the pipe stand, a massive 15" Prentice Bros. gear drive lathe from the early 1900's, and a U.S. Machine Tools vertical mill

[@andrewraugh1622]

Thank you for this tip. I used your instructions to make the device and align my lathe centers. This really helped me! Thank you!

[@Ziedin100]

Good comment on why gun barrels may have been tapered for all those years, I bet that's why :) love your videos

[@kerrywil1]

again thanks for the effort doing these videos. it fun and educational viewing them.

[@schneidp20]

Thanks again for taking the time to shoot these videos. I'm building one of these! Another good video would be the initial setup of a lathe just moved. I know I need to level the bed, but haven't bothered with it yet.

[@jslytle]

Thanks again for another great video. Work on my lathe has improved because of you!

[@Culturedropout]

I ran across this video while looking through your playlist, and it was perfect timing. I was just trying to use my trusty Atlas 6" lathe to machine some shafts to a smaller size, and the test pieces I did kept coming out tapered. I got it closer by putting a center drill in the 3 jaw and lining the tip up with a live center in the tailstock, but it's still tapering. So I'm going to try your method of a dial indicator in a block in the chuck. Thanks!

[@mrpete222]

That method would work just fine. In fact, I show how to shrink fit a bearing in this video, MINNEAPOLIS MOLINE TRACTOR Part 3 Axle Seal & Bearing Replacement

[@StanErvin-yo9vl]

Lyle , part 1 came up and I watched it totally mesmerized. Had to go to your video list and scroll for a long time on my little Android government phone to find this part two. Which is fine. Most work that I have done in three years. But could you please put a hot link to this one under the title of part one for the benefit of your younger students. Thanks man. P. S. I enjoyed the tang videos. Learned a lot. Had no idea that tapers were so varied between manufacturers and even sizes. Don't ever stop. Keeping going keeps you going. 👍

[@mrpete222]

Thank you for watching and commenting. I’m glad you like my videos. Sometimes I try to put links in the description, but I often forget, and I don’t think most people look at the description.

[@StanErvin-yo9vl]

@@mrpete222 I'm all eyes and ears, but mostly far too much mouth. 👀👂🙉😲🤐

[@paleozon]

Thanks for the effort to share your knowledge, time and resources.

[@frankwolfe1524]

Hello Mr Pete,Excellent video... I have suspected my tailstock to be misaligned for several weeks, but I shattered a plastic gear and waited until new one arrived before testing...I will use your Atlas method, I like it... In my younger days our black powder club made our own replica Brown Bess Flintlock rifles... The barrels were 39 inches long but we had to taper most of the length and cut wedding band grooves, also the barrel was reamed to 5/8 inch diameter, smooth bore... Anyway I believe your comment on gun barrels being tapered because they did not have the accuracy we have in lathes of modern day...Thanks again for your excellent advice...Frank

[@edktm]

Great videos, Best on KZbin! You're a great instructor.

[@mikeadrover5173]

As always, thanks’ for taking the time to make this video! And I support this site. ~M~

[@not2fast4u2c]

Thank You for your Videos I have Learned alot about Lathes .

[@jdudb]

Surely if the measurement nearest the tail stock is too large then you move the tailstock towards the cutting tool?

[@RalfyCustoms]

Absolutely 💯

[@gohuskies583]

What a great idea to build the collars rather than turn down a solid bar. I've been avoiding this because of the time it would have taken. I'm thinking this could also be used to check the lathe bed for parallelism. The South Bend HTRAL book shows that procedure.

[@turbocobra]

Awesome work. Love the detailed explanations

[@RedlineRennsport]

They are all quite old, variously in need of moderate to major repair, and it is difficult to work around their deficiencies, especially if you don't know anything. I've also got all kinds of nice tools (Starrett, Lufkin, B&S, etc.) from down the generations, but few skills to use them. I have always wanted to know how, but never seriously taken the plunge. I've recently decided to begin building my own bicycle frames, and have been motivated to make jig fixtures for doing so

[@mcdaniel01]

Man Mr . pete I wish i had a friend like yourself close by man could we have some fun around the shop here.

[@mrpete222]

@badguymike35 YES-I misspoke-it should be moved toward the operator.

[@davedunn4285]

I have seen something like this before but I love your method

[@lawrencewright631]

Thanks again for another great video.

[@MaturePatriot]

Once you've made that test bar, it can be used for several years. Very good educational video.

[@dadmezz4024]

Again thank you....so... the larger the diameter of the turning adds as a magnifier of the error, ie the value would be bigger so you can see the error better, again, similar to your larger dial indicators? Could it have been a 12-inch diameter to get four times better adjustment? Would we want to do this if our larger diameters needed to be more consentric to a center / bore? Your making me think, thanks!

[@JaredAF]

Made me laugh at the end! Lol

[@dwtees]

I wish I had you as my shop teacher when I was in High school. I am learning how to use my first lathe, a Logan 820, from you. Thanks for sharing your knowledge Tubal Cain. Could you use a milling machine coaxial indicator in the spinning chuck indicating on the tailstock quill to align the centers? I've been watching your bridgeport video's also. Fascinating.

[@mrpete222]

+Douglas Tees Yes--that works well. Thanks for watching.

[@pocoapoco2]

I think gun barrels were tapered in order to compensate for heat expansion of the barrel which the chamber end is subject to more heating from the charge of the cartridge. Tapering would keep the barrel from getting too heavy and keep the bore tolerance better during repeated firing.

[@EarlRausch]

The Ole Buggy whip maker who sounds like Jimmy Stewart ! I did something that is close to what you did where you check to see if your lathe is level.Let me tell you as you probably already know that a machinist level is worlds away from a hardware level. I used both the last was the Starrett level and it was out quite a bit,I just cut 1"x14" # 4 Acme thread ! I did a quick video of it. It required a lot of concentrating but in the end it was great, Cut the nut tonight ! plastic then steel.

[@glenmccarthy2066]

How does one measure vertical concentricity? My 10ee tailstock is coming in slightly below center, bit I don't want to shim it all willynilly. Cheers, love the videos!

[@googacct]

Don't apologize for the using the foundry. I don't know how many metalcasters casters are out there , but there will be one more in a month or so. I need all the hints tips and tricks I can find. Good tip about the riser..

[@rescobar8572]

Hi Lyle! I have turned to you in the past for wisdom and guidance and was very pleased with the time you took to respond. This is another one of those times. I have heard about "twisting" the bed ways to align the tailstock to the spindle. Does this procedure mean to move the ways away from being level? I understand that the goal is to align the headstock to the tailstock. However, should the lathe bedways first be leveled with a machinist level, then move the tailstock to align everything up?

[@strongspeed]

what about the vertical alignment- i have an old atlas and noticed the centers were off vertically- maybe .015?

[@ellieprice3396]

The most common way to correct vertical alignment is to insert shims between the top and bottom half of the tail-stock. Keep inserting or removing shims until the tail-stock center is in perfect vertical alignment with the head-stock center.

[@strongspeed]

@@ellieprice3396 thanks for the help

[@badguymike35]

Thanks for the videos! At 10:28 you say that you'll move the tailstock away from you in order to align it with the headstock. Wouldn't that move it further out of alignment? I would think that if the piece closer to the tailstock is .004" larger in diameter, moving the tailstock away from the tool would cause it to cut even less material from the work, increasing the diameter with respect to the part closer to the headstock. Am I thinking about this the wrong way?

[@StanErvin-yo9vl]

3:33 Love that word, anaerobic. Another happy word is "behooves". Doesn't get used quite enough, n'est pas? Wonder if elgooG Translate will catch two French words. Or one Spanish word mañana. Tomorrow we will know! 👍

[@mrpete222]

Yes

[@fgleich]

have you ever tried putting the shaft in the freezer or in ice water, and heating up the other part with a torch, then putting the part on the shaft ? It will slide right on easily, until the termperatures equalize, then you can't get it off without destroying it. We've used this trick a lot replacing bearings on electrical equipment. I've also done this with stubbornly hard to replace bearings on car alternators, it works great.

[@waynerobinson2301]

fgleich in all my experience when dealing with steel heat applied makes iron swell or increase in all directions equally . This means that a hole in steel plate doesn't get larger , it actually will get smaller . When steel is quenched it often will shrink a very very small degree. Chilling steel of any shape , will get smaller . I always hear people say heat will make holes get bigger but I must be doing something wrong cause I've never found that to be the case ?? What's up with that?

[@madaboutpix]

keep up the excellent work!

[@janslos]

Don't know if this is any help to you but as a degasser when I melt aluminium I use a littlebit of tablesalt, somewhere I have read that in the commercial degasser they use chlore and in tablesalt there is a lot of that. True or not, anyway I have better castings than before. Many thanks for the wonderfull video's you make, allways looking foreward for a new one.

[@ellieprice3396]

What a great way to test and correct tail-stock alignment. For faster Loctite cure, warm the part up with a hair dryer for a five minute set-up.

[@patrickwhitehead7584]

Would it work well at all to put a knurl on either end of the shaft and use an interference fit, rather than loctite?

[@newstart49]

Great video and I can see that this method aligns the work for cutting, however, once you have adjusted the tailstock this way, you are truly off center with the chuck. Then this method would have to be used every time a shorter or longer stock was chucked. Adjusting the lathe bed works better for all around performance. Mine was off .008" at 14", I got it down to .002" by adjusting the lathes 6 leg supports. Now, the only problem I have is lateral alignment. It is off by .014". And I can't lower the tailstock.

[@ch408w1]

Mr Pete... would you trust drilling the center hole one inch with a drill bit or is boring the best way ??? Thank you

[@bentontool]

Hello Mr. Pete, Thanks again for all your great videos... Quick question: did you ever knurl a (too small or loose) shaft in order to gain a few thousands if, for instance in this application, you bored out the bore of the aluminum discs too large? Best wishes... BentonTool

[@paulboomer1569]

If you center drill the holes in the shaft and the tailstock is out of align won't the holes you are using for a reference be out if align also. Seems like you should use a cutting tool to cut the taper for the centers.

[@ch408w1]

I just made one of these off this video for my new Enco 13x40... is there any reason I can't use the 3 jaw chuck instead of a center on the headstock ?? Thanks !!! Your the man

[@thoughtnox]

Great video! did you ever think about cheating away with heat to wam the alloy pieces and shrink them on the round bar? that way you'd need no press. any thoughts why this may not be the best way?

[@sebastianhamann9846]

Loctite is easier, try removing a part fixed with it sometime, it locks your part solid and takes quite a bit of heat to remove, especially 638 cylindrical LocTite. Also it only requires a slip fit and allows for easy positioning of your part before it sets.

[@russtuff]

this is excellent! i am going to try this the next time i get in front of my lathe.

[@baseline46]

Hello Sir , thank you for all this nice videos . May I request a lathe follow and steady rest lesson? I don't think that there is any at KZbin. Thank you again.

[@StanErvin-yo9vl]

Like Columbo, one more thing... Who does a good scraping course?

[@borderm3]

Hi Tubalcain! Do you think its possible the long screw you replaced with a set screw was there by design to balance the moment, so that it is less harmful to the lathe spindle? E.g. do you suspect using the dog without counter balancing can be bad for your spindle bearings?

[@mrpete222]

YES--many times

[@tomharrell1954]

How did you know which way to move the tail stock to correct the allignment?

[@alirezasaf]

+Thomas Harrell Hey I had the same question but I found the answer. Since you know from which side your cutting tool is moving you can conclude which side you must move. The key is to consider the cutting tools direction. Now I am not sure if I can explain this clearly, but I will try. We got 2.711 on the tail and 2.707 on the head side. This means the cutting tool was far from the center towards the tail that is why we have larger diameter. So we should align in such a way that the cutting tool goes towards the center by 0.002.

[@makingkindling582]

If the right side of the test bar is bigger than the left side, move the tailstock toward you. If the right side of the test bar is smaller than the left, move the tailstock away from you.

[@TheClampetts]

Why do you say to unlock the tailstock when adjusting it? I'm assuming you're referring to locking the base of the tailstock to the ways It would seem to me that you'd want to adjust it when locked, as that's the condition it would be in when using it

[@pauldzim]

Because the top and bottom of the tailstock will be clamped together, and you won't be able to adjust it

[@pbgd3]

I would first inspect to ensure that the tailstock is sitting on good clean bedways, and not hanging up. This dimension should ideally be accurate due to manufacturing tolerence, if not you could scrape or otherwise adjust the base of either head or tail stock, but first inspect for errors.

[@boallmon324]

Mr Pete I see you have a classing lathe too I have the 1500 classing I am wondering do you have any ideals to pass on like I’m trying to figure out what kind of tail stock centers would fit my lathe and what would be good cutting and boring tools with holders for me to buy to get started up plus I purchase a Bridgeport mill too any help on. Information would be appreciated

[@fryloc359]

Loctite reacts with the metal itself, and doesn't react with aluminum, so you have to get a spray they make to activate the loctite.

[@mrpete222]

Possibly , the bottom of the tailstock is worn. Someone has a video-showing how to shim it.

[@color200]

Hello What to to if the hight of the tail stock is not alined ? how to aline the tailstock ? thx for the video

[@mikepons4059]

I used a old camshaft out of a straight six engine works great and will have centers drilled in it. Great video thoe

[@DwayneRouthierJr]

What an excellent idea. I got decent cams laying all over the place and haven't thought of it. Thanks for the idea Mike, take care.

[@MrBen527]

For critical work, don't forget Locktite has an expiration date.

[@jamesburriss1086]

If you turned any shaft on each end and they measured the same diameter wouldn't that show the centers are aligned? Seems to be the simplest way to do this to me

[@mrpete222]

Yes

[@vedranlatin1386]

Now that you have both sides turned to the same diameter, couldn't you use this bar the same way as the precision ground bar and just indicate it with the indicator in the toolpost instead of turning it slightly smaller each time? Is there some non-obvious (well, to me at least) reason why that wouldn't work? Thanks for all your videos, they make it possible for me to get into machining much faster then I otherwise could.

[@ian9toes]

Vedran Latin That makes sense to me, but I'm just a hobbyist too.

[@vedranlatin1386]

Keith Rucker recently demonstrated another interesting method in his LeBlond restoration Part 18. I have no idea if it's better or worse then this one though. I hoped Mr. Pete would chime in but this is an old video and he said he usually only follows comments on new ones so ...

[@mrpete222]

Thanks for watching--I have not seen his vid yet,

[@MrSprocket2u]

pete .... any info on the ... Mascot lathes ?

[@mrpete222]

You must use the center--remember, we are aligning CENTERS!

[@zaidkaleb4933]

I know Im kinda randomly asking but does anyone know of a good site to stream newly released movies online ?

[@kylanwatson1133]

@Zaid Kaleb i use flixzone. You can find it by googling =)

[@pwpollaccia]

May be old technology, but still learned machining.

[@shanemendonca8091]

I'd like to know sir, is this your home shop? If so how did you start it? I'm a 6 year machinist and I'm always in room for learning.

[@lstein3372]

Initially, it appeared as though you moved the tailstock in the wrong direction! As the tail cut was larger its center MUST have been farther away from the tool, therefore towards the rear of the bed and headstock center. What you are actually measuring with this technique is not really the centers but the linearity of the centers to the bed and tool post.

[@color200]

I have done that allready. Maybe the head stock or the bed or the tail stock is worn out.

[@eliaserjohannes4399]

keep it up sir we would want to learn more on turning

[@mrpete222]

🤙

[@EnglishTurbines]

Alternately, you can just use the ground parallel bar with the dead centres in and clock it parallel to the slide ways. Then you dont have to test machine anything at all.

[@mrpete222]

Thanks

[@Alcigexed]

time consuming may not be a bad thing...it gives more time for experience and practice, which may benefit later projects, In my Opinion a rush job is always a bad job.

[@thoughtnox]

and, btw. just wiping the centers with hands often seemed insufficient, as sometimes some small alloy or steel chips are quite adhesive on the center shafts, and do not really improve the general alignment as you wonderfully said. :)

[@elfedepechos4885]

excellent videos learn

[@Wooley689]

fantastic, thanks a ton.

[@juanasanelli6831]

Yo uso una barra cromada y rectificada de 1/12" x 3"feet con punto en ambos extremos. pongo el comparador en el porta herramientas y voy desde el plato hasta la contrapunta y la diferencia de la medida me la da el comparador Hago la comparacion de lado y desde arriba A veces la conicidad de lado esta bien La contrapunta puede estar mirando pa abajo tambien Despues de hecha las correcciones hago lo mismo pero con el torno girando a 50 rpm Es muy similar a lo que dice MIke Pons

[@DonsfirstYou]

I Tubal, I use a degasser from nikkin flux to take the hydrogen out of my pours. If you want to contact me about it feel free.

[@alehax27]

I will pray for him to align my tail-stock.

[@1232sean]

Hey Mr Pete, You should check out myfordboy here on youtube. He has a lot of great aluminum casting videos. He shows you what to use for flux. I think he uses washing soda. Anyway, if you watch his videos you will see for yourself. Goodluck with eliminating porosity. Sincerely, sean

[@lastmanstandingwtsht]

awesome Thanks

[@Trajiq187]

hey Mrpete may i be your apprentice? ;D

[@Fixinthatupvideos]

T=up

[@martynfrench7187]

Such a waste of time. All that is needed is 2 centre holes and 1 turned diameter. Set the indicator on the turned end, remove the piece, rotate it end for end and compare the end with the indicator. Adjust as necessary until the same indicator reading is obtained. 🌟

[@Rustaholic777]

Old Lathe??? Do you mean like my 1891 LeBlond? It is the oldest LeBlond know to exist says the history guy at the LeBlond company. The 14th one they built.

[@MessageWarning]

JESUS CHRIST IS LORD JESUS CHRIST is the Light of the world. Whoever follows Him will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life. Open your heart to Jesus Christ !

[@beepcode]

OK, you show that the head stock and tail stock need to be aligned. Fair enough. To take this long to do it is a joke. Just take a piece of round stock , chuck it, face and center drill one end . Flip it and do the same on the other end. Mount it between centers and turn it lengthwise. Runout ignored. The diameter does not matter, whether it is 3 inch diameter or 1 /2 inch. The error will always be the same. Measure diameters, adjust, done. Ten minutes. Is this an advertisement for Loctite?

[@mrpete222]

Boring

[@rescobar8572]

Hi Lyle! I have turned to you in the past for wisdom and guidance and was very pleased with the time you took to respond. This is another one of those times. I have heard about "twisting" the bed ways to align the tailstock to the spindle. Does this procedure mean to move the ways away from being level? I understand that the goal is to align the headstock to the tailstock. However, should the lathe bedways first be leveled with a machinist level, then move the tailstock to align everything up?

[@mrpete222]

+Rolando Escobar I never heard of twisting the bed. But yes, level the lathe first, then align centers

[@rescobar8572]

Align them in the same fashion that you presented in this video?

[@ExtantFrodo2]

+mrpete222 As I understand it, beds do get twisted due to a number of factors ranging from uneven feet, support, not being level to gravity, thermal expansion effects,... and also from what I can tell, the term "leveling" the lathe speaks more directly to untwisting it more than making it parallel to the ground. When this untwisting is done properly then head and tailstock alignment will be valid no matter where on the bed the tailstock is positioned.

[@rescobar8572]

Hi Lyle! I have turned to you in the past for wisdom and guidance and was very pleased with the time you took to respond. This is another one of those times. I have heard about "twisting" the bed ways to align the tailstock to the spindle. Does this procedure mean to move the ways away from being level? I understand that the goal is to align the headstock to the tailstock. However, should the lathe bedways first be leveled with a machinist level, then move the tailstock to align everything up?