Doctor Who: The Wheel In Space - REVIEW - Cybercember

[@MrTARDIS]

"You just you watch your lip or I'll put you across my knee and larrup you!" In the spirit of Jamie's suggestive language, please consider larruping that "like" button and leaving a comment to appease the almighty KZbin algorithm!

[@russelltietjen4407]

Wouldn't be a Two and Jamie story without an innuendo

[@DalekTheSupreme]

I love your way with words.

[@kurtvanderbogarde8402]

if the Prison In Space is canon, Jamie got his chance at the end of the story.

[@ninjahunter101]

'Logic, my dear, only enables one to be wrong with authority.' This show really was ahead of its time in the most depressing ways.

[@defrostedrobot77]

Then again some logic may have meant a less convoluted Cyberman plan based on what's been said here so...ya know...good to still have some in your pocket.

[@lapelcelery42]

That is a terrible sentiment. If your logic gives you the wrong answer it's either incorrect (illogical), or based on faulty or insufficient information. Since acknowledging you don't necessarily have all the necessary information is logical, it shouldn't enable you to be wrong with authority if your position is actually logical, and even if it did, there isn't an alternative to logic which yields better answers overall.

[@ninjahunter101]

@@lapelcelery42 I'm not talking in a statistical sense of wrong, I mean in the way that bigots use 'logic' to pretend that their bigotry isn't actually bigotry. Logic isn't some universal standard outside the world of math, science and statistics, and even then, some people pervert them with twisted 'logic' to justify some idiotic or even horrifying world views 'i.e. flat earth theory, white supremacy, the anti vaccine movement'. Ergo, logic enables people to be wrong while claiming a higher authority.

[@lapelcelery42]

@@ninjahunter101 I agree with that, but it only works as long as someone doesn't realize the illogic to the claim. It's an argument which pretends to logic, as you say, but isn't actually logical.

[@sstuddert]

​@@ninjahunter101 You're equivocating on the word "logic" and it makes everything you're saying almost totally incoherent.

[@frankputman7683]

Fun fact: The space suits used in this story would later be recycled for the first two Star Wars movies.

[@tommunism8778]

Cool

[@w0mpyy25]

OMG I SEE IT NOW

[@grantg7457]

True!

[@pepsiman9285]

I’m constipated

[@bladersmosh]

Tony Stark in response to the Cybermen’s plan in this episode: “Not a great plan.”

[@the_alex_ellis_channel6923]

Regardless of how good or bad the story, I think The Wheel in Space should be animated. This is the last remaining Cyberman Story to not have its missing episodes reconstructed in animation, and I think it should be done for the sake of completing the Cyber stories, so that Cyber-fans like myself can enjoy all of the stories.

[@bladersmosh]

Given there’s just two Cybermen in the story, Cyber-Jeff and Cyber-Steve could’ve had some great comedic moments here.

[@MrTARDIS]

Their time in the sun is coming, just you wait :)

[@bladersmosh]

@@MrTARDIS Great! I look forward to them. I’m there biggest fan.

[@dalekinthewater4708]

Live at the Apollo Theater in London Cyber Jeff and Cyber Steve in... The Jelly Baby in space

[@SegaNintendoGuy64]

Favourite quotes of the day, Yeah I'm doing two this time.. "I imagine you have orders to destroy me!" And "You know our ways you must be destroyed!"

[@Jedi_Spartan]

Was Resurrection of the Daleks inspired by this story because your explanation of the Cybermen's plan reminded me of everything the Daleks tried to do in that episode.

[@eoj8371]

at least that story is engaging and action packed

[@Jedi_Spartan]

@@eoj8371 Which is a good thing because you can just turn your brain off and not need to focus on the 'logic' of the Dalek plan - to quote Mr TARDIS - "On a story level, I can't stand the confusion in my mind either when watching Resurrection of the Daleks."

[@bladersmosh]

Ah, The Invasion next time. The first classic story to be animated.

[@defrostedrobot77]

Let it never be said that Moffat was the sole proprietor of convolutedness in Doctor Who.

[@DomoftheDoctor]

18:11-18:16 Glad to see we've firmly established a Troughton meme to go with Hartnell's "you cheeky sh*t".

[@flutterflyer849]

17:53 that was somehow the most bored "You must be destroyed" I have heard in my life, lol.

[@BH-98]

Even they Cybermen were getting bored by how long this story was

[@calumbishop7082]

I mean the Cybermen are meant to be emotionless.

[@SegaNintendoGuy64]

While Roy Skelton return again to voice the Cybermen, This is the final time that Peter Hawkins 'Who plays the Cyber-Planer' ever worked on anything Dr Who related.

[@kiarash608]

Oh yes. The one with the drunk Cyber voices

[@jdzencelowcz]

Underwater Menace FINALLY getting an animation gives me hope we'll get this serial animated.

[@silverdaleks1]

13:48 Looks like the cybermen are dancing to Reed-Flutes or Dance of the Sugar-Plum Fairy. And that effect at 14:02 looks like a visual effect you'd see in a Nostalgia Critic or Angry Video Game Nerd review XD

[@dubliam8064]

Nothing wrong with another Troughton base under siege don't understand the complaints

[@ThanhTriet600]

I know right. None of those stories are bad individually, but it gets very repetitive when you binge the entire season. Same goes for Pertwee's era recycling the same plots with UNIT and the Master constantly.

[@IsaacWhittakerDakin]

"And manly arse me bucko!" Seriously watch the surviving clips it sounds like that!

[@MrBlinovitch]

Tbh I think the best thing about this story is the music, really great little pieces of electronic ambience

[@frazzlesreviews5379]

The Wheel In Space murdered me! That should have been the title of the video.

[@redroseproductions4688]

Fun fact one of the space suits used by the crew in this story would eventually go on to be reused and repurposed almost 10 years later .... In star wars episode V the empire strikes back as bounty hunter Bossk's suit

[@UnderwaterWorld216]

13:48 You've got to wonder what the direction was for the guys in the suits

[@schmoobmcfroob2800]

I haven’t gotten to this point in the video yet, but I think I know exactly what this is referring to. EDIT: yep, it couldn’t have been anything else.

[@RetroActiveGM]

It was actually the voice box breaking down at the end of Episode 3 which caused the Cybermen to sound like they couldn't be bothered anymore, which meant they had to re-record it with the fixed voice box for the reprise in Episode 4. But good review, The Wheel in Space isn't great but I'd love to see it animated.

[@SegaNintendoGuy64]

18:09 "I'M HAVING A SEIZURE!" Got that joke out of the way.

[@ishaandw]

This story creates my favourite TARDIS team ever.

[@upinjames4070]

Loving the reviews... but: 1.) The Tenth Planet did explain why the Cybermen were there... they were trying to bring Mondas into earth’s atmosphere and move the earth out of its position... 2.) You didn’t bring up how much of a banger the defrosting of the Cybermen from the Tomb is!

[@SegaNintendoGuy64]

You know what's funny, I do like those Cybermen costumes even if some don't, But back to my point this is the first time that they have the teareyes.

[@defrostedrobot77]

The design of the face reminds me most of the Moffat era Cybermen. Something about the rounder faces just has a neat charm.

[@SegaNintendoGuy64]

@@defrostedrobot77 I rather choose The Wheel in Space ones over the Moffat ones anyway.

[@silverdaleks1]

Love the Jamie impression 12:25 . Also after seeing this review I'm not sure if I'd want to see this story if it's missing parts are ever animated in full

[@sebastiangreenan1774]

I remember the Wheel In Space Cybermen as the "nodding Cybermen", in order to get the voices to come out the actors had to bob their head forward every time they say anything.

[@matthewduncan8523]

It was so that Patrick Troughton knew which one to look at as there was no visual way of knowing which was speaking. Nothing to do with making the voice work

[@BH-98]

@@matthewduncan8523 that’s such a strange idea as 1, it looks daft & 2, he only has that 1 scene with them & yet they still do it even when there’s only 1 of them in the room.

[@defrostedrobot77]

The best part about that is in SFDebris' review where he uses it against "What Is Love?"

[@JackWolf10]

@@matthewduncan8523 I think it's actually so the audience know which cyberman speaking. Both prior designs of Cybermen had mouths that opened when they spoke, but this design has no such indication. They had a similar problem with the Daleks, which is why they received flashing lights to show which was talking. On the small screens of the 60s, the nodding likely didn't look very silly.

[@matthewduncan8523]

@@JackWolf10 it likely would’ve been a bit of both. The only reason I cited Pat in the first place is you can see that he’s using it to distinguish which one is talking, audience as well didn’t even occur to me haha

[@2150dalek]

I liked the slow pace. You get to feel like your with the Doctor, exploring an automated rocket. The care taker robot is cute confused thing trying to determine what the two are up to.

[@markcrorigan554]

i really like this one. yes, it is very convoluted and it’s very noticeable but i find that the pacing doesn’t bother me. it’s just a story i really enjoy. 8/10 can’t wait for the invasion tomorrow as it’s my second favourite of all time

[@Tymbus]

Here's a thing that puzzles me. Given the show's low budget, why weren't the Cybermen's costumes from The Moonbase just re-used?

[@dustin_4501]

The Moonbase and Tomb of The Cybermen would get the job done and so they look better than this Wheel Cybermen.

[@omnicientcrow7340]

This is why I’m so bamboozled by this decision. The Cyberman heads used in this story are actually 2 of the 11 made for Tomb of the Cybermen and the Moonbase, just modified. It would have been cheaper just to have 4 or so Cybermen without modifying the heads, and also would have made them far creepier! The ones in this story are just so underwhelming compared to the sheer terror the Moonbase design invokes.

[@unimpressedlink2507]

They actually do. The ones in the spacewalk scene at the climax of Episode 6 are Moonbase/Tomb suits with Wheel helmets placed on them. One of them still has its original helmet because as @OmnicientCrow7340 said, only two were modified

[@pious83]

Troughton is easily my favourite Doctor of the Classic Era. It is such a shame how much of his tenure is lost. I mostly watched Classic Who through repeats in the early 90's. Which is where I first took to the Cybermen, my favourite villains. This serial however, I assume because of the missing parts, I don't remember seeing. Hopefully it will be animated at some point, as Telesnaps don't quite do it for me.

[@SegaNintendoGuy64]

Next Time: The return of an old friend of the Doctor's, First time U.N.I.T is in Dr Who, Cosgrove Hall's involving with the show, Another redesign of the Cybermen, And an 8-Part story 'To me' wroth to watch as Cybermen begin their conquest at London in The Invasion, Is this what Tobias Vaughn wanted, To be the ruler of a dead world?!

[@scl1332]

Am I the only one that kinda liked the first episode? I liked seeing the characters of The Doctor and Jamie have some fun human lines with each other and that robot servant thing terrifies me and it's so atmospheric I kinda forgot everything that happened after the first episode though

[@davidmacgregor5193]

Wendy Padbury was the cutest Doctor Who companion of all time.

[@crimsondynamo615]

Yeah that Scanners clip was exactly what i was feeling when i tried to make sense of this story

[@robertmcghintheorca49]

If it had been Videodrome, then the body horror elements would be great when you consider the Cybermen.

[@jdzencelowcz]

I REALLY wish we'd gotten more than a partial ep one animation, why couldn't THIS B the "last" one the BBC did???

[@SirMeowsAlot89]

These videos are great!! As always. Love the Cybermen! My favorite Doctor Who villains/Monsters/Aliens!

[@TGM_Productions]

I love watching these videos.

[@garybryant1501]

The Doctor uses John Smith thereafter as a way to remember one of his favourite earthlings Jamie 😊

[@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2]

This story should be 4 parts instead of 6 because it’s slow paced until part 6.

[@Jasonm25870]

He had a complete metal breakdown.

[@JoshFortune-nb8wz]

Its crazy how john smith came from this episode

[@theshadowdirector]

What I'd give to have companions like Jamie and Zoë again ...

[@bendream544]

What's funny is the actor playing Duggan Kenneth Watson played Craddock in the movie Daleks Invasion 2150ad is on screen with Michael Goldie (playing Laleham)who was the actor that played Craddock in the Dalek Invasion of Earth, and the actor playing Casali is none other than Donald Sumpter who is the latest person to play Rassilon in nu-Who and he was also the Submarine Captain (not Steve Hillage) in the Sea Devils.

[@llewelynshingler2173]

First dud Cybermen Story?

[@ThanhTriet600]

Probably unpopular take, but the Tenth Planet is no good either. The Cybermen barely do anything and get defeated by the humans very easily, not to mention their entire species is wiped out by Ben running out the clock until their planet disintegrates. Also the doctor sleeps through an episode and effectively does nothing. The serial as a whole takes an almost xenophobic position of not trusting them because they're not like them and doesn't go any further with the moral dilemma. The Cybermen's design is creepy, but that's all that serial really has going for it.

[@tardisnet9487]

Weakest Cybermen story of the 60s but still a fun watch.I still think the Cybermen have a creepy scare factor as do the brainwashed humans and the cybermats are great and I enjoy the introduction of Zoe. But it is overlong, has a lack of originality and the Cybermen are underused. Its still stronger than most of the Cybermen stories after the 60s though

[@Tymbus]

There are some OK fan animated reconstructions on KZbin. I loved this story as a child. The cybermen growing in eggs was amazing. I didn't spot how terrible the space walk scene in the last episode was. Hey, I was 8 at the time!

[@Austin_Soares]

To me the drops on the mouth looks more like they're drooling

[@TheCyberman1966]

So I listened to the wheel In space after watching this video paying very close attention to what’s going on and ye you kinda got some details muddled here abs there First off the cybermens plan though long and sounding over complicated it’s actually somewhat clever as if you puts it down inti steps it gos like this: Step 1- get a earth cargo ship and set the autopilot to go to the wheel after having two cybermen onboard with a bunch of cybermats Step-2 release the cybermats onto the wheel so they can burrow in and eat the bernalium supply to depower the lazer Step-3 ionise a star to launch meteorites at the wheel to cause the human’s on board to panic and risk checking the nearby ship for more bernalium and use them to get the two cybermen onboard with more bernalium so the meteorites don’t destroy the wheel Step 4-set to work brainwashing the other members of the crew to get full control of the wheel and send the signal to let the cyberships invade earth Another thing you point out that the staff of the wheel were just going to blow up the silver carrier anyway…erm so your not going to give context as to why? Well for those who want to know the guy I charge of the wheel who is also very paranoid at times is convinced that just because it floated by the wheel it will suddenly just ram into it hence why he wanted to blow it up in the first place it’s really the only error the cybermen made in there plan not taking that possibility into account and what you refer to him as going into trance like states is him actually going into a mental brake down as he physically and mentally can’t handle what’s going on Another thing I take issue with is you point out that if they have an invasion fleet why not just invade… three words to instantly disarm that argument GIANT FU*KING LAZER they would be instantly blasted into oblivion if they just tried go invade straight away And finally the the advantage of only having two cybermen onboard is that you can easily hide and surprise attack any crewmen and get control of them a bunch of cybermen dos not exactly scream covert take over dos it Now granted yes this whole thing dos make it sound like I’m ranting but I still enjoyed the review in general I just really needed to get this off my mind keep up the good work and I hope you enjoyed reading this

[@SoundsSarcastic234]

I’d love to comment to appease the almighty algorithm, but I’m not too familiar with Classic Who Cybermen stories so I can’t say much other than great videos and looking forward to when you move in to the modern era. Although, I’m slightly dreading your obligatory Rose rant as she is my favourite companion and series 2 my personal fav, but I will do my best to defend her actions while keeping it civil, of course. :D

[@JackWolf10]

Try out some Classic Who if you get the chance!

[@SoundsSarcastic234]

@@JackWolf10 I have watched some, just not these particular episodes. I love stories like “Caves of Androzani”, “Remberance of the Daleks” and so on.

[@Pulsarnix]

I listened to the audio release of this story. I feel like the linking narration helps more than a telesnap, especially during action sequences. I also think the music and ambience are very good in this story and deserve a shout out.

[@walkerzupp8393]

A testament to what a brilliant script editor Derrick Sherwin was!

[@josephryan362]

I love the wheel in space I have watched episode six of it and the rest of it needs to be animated for every doctor who fan to watch episode 3 survival in BBC archives but the way so we can see two episodes of the wheel in space plus the animated episode one because It Is an extra on the animated version of the macro terror dvd and blue ray

[@Doctor_Smith]

Fun review, I agree with the praise of Gemma's character and the actresses' portrayal. The Officer Leo is also fun, in a weird twist giving the Doctor a telling off for his carelessness over other's safety.

[@ToxinWolffe]

Anyone else think this model of Cybermen has helmets that look like firefighters/miners/construction men?

[@BH-98]

While I've only seen the 2 surviving episodes (plus the test animation) & didn't find it that bad, this is the story that makes me question the integrity of anyone who says "60s cybermen were perfect" I can't take them seriously in this story between the nodding back & forth when they talk, the flapping their arms, their voices, etc.

[@matthewbolitho-jones]

I like The Wheel in Space

[@BlunderbussReviews]

I love the design of the cybermen in this story.

[@SegaNintendoGuy64]

I'll defend The Wheel in Space in a few parts, It wasn't their fault for the change of the Cybermen voice box I think it's alright in my book, Also as I said before in another comment I made these Cybermen costumes are quite good it's my fourth favourite Cybermen costumes from the Troughton era, All time favourite of mine.. I'll save that for Day 5 in the next day, Overall I find The Wheel in Space a fine story, Not one of my favourite Cybermen Stories 'I'll save that for Day 7' but I still think it's good enough for me and here's my hopes for an animated treatment.

[@MrTARDIS]

Oh, I don't hold the voice change against the story. I just wanted to throw in the trivia.

[@SegaNintendoGuy64]

@@MrTARDIS Oh OK, I'm only saying that because I know some fans are not too keen on that, Just thought I would defend that part.

[@JackWolf10]

They're your fourth favourite cyberman costume overall or just from the Troughton Era?

[@SegaNintendoGuy64]

@@JackWolf10 The Troughton Era, Although looking back I should have said the Dr Who B&W era.

[@schmoobmcfroob2800]

I like the costume designs too, but I don’t understand... you say it’s your fourth favorite Troughton Cybermen design, yet there were only three different styles of costume in his tenure?

[@bobo577]

15:59. Partial reversing of the footage there I see.

[@martintree1078]

Does anyone know what the piece of music is that plays at around 10 minutes?

[@schmoobmcfroob2800]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pZWcqWChh8SWmJI at 3:25, there it is.

[@martintree1078]

Thank you. I've actually been looking for it for ages

[@Paul1510WB]

Wasn't the change of voices because Roy Skelton wasn't able to get the electronic voice plate to fit his mouth so he had to improvise a voice?

[@McDonald_Mando]

Weren’t one of the space suites used for Bosk?

[@DanTheMan2150AD]

The story just wasn’t suited for a 6 part format. It's pacing is far too slow to prop up a rather dull story tbh.

[@kurtvanderbogarde8402]

11:23 NO-;Leo and Tarnya were meant to ALREADY be a couple! He is not chatting her up from scratch with his nose comments, they already have a clear space of understanding between them. Also I think most women in the real life C21st would take a comment like Leo's to Tarnya about her nose being pretty at face value (no pun intended) as a compliment, if it were made in an appropriate social setting or in the context of a pre-existing understanding.

[@ThanhTriet600]

I just rewatched this serial last night, and it literally says multiple times that the Cybermen caused the meteor storm by making a star go nova. If they're able to do that with their technology, the Wheel and Earth's resources seem like small fries. Also imagine making a star go nova just as part of a plan to sneak on board one spaceship. All the life in that star system they're potentially destroying for such an unnecessary and convoluted reason. This story is almost a parody of itself in so many ways.

[@seancatacombs]

"Just you watch your lip or I'll put you across my knee and larrup ya" "Oh this is going to be fun. I shall learn a lot from you!" Incredibly horny dialog for the mid 60s

[@Nostalgic80s-nd3qb]

I’m ok with the fact that there are only 2 Cybermen in this story as it builds on the fact that they are the last surviving of their species, but their plan is so confusing that it made my head spin.

[@grantg7457]

Great reviews of these Cybermen episodes. I've really enjoyed watching them. Your one of Revenge of the Cybermen is hilarious, and the one on Silver Nemesis spot on.

[@SegaNintendoGuy64]

I'll do one last comment on this video and I'll stop for the day, I am beginning to understand the Cybermen's plan being too confusing, I think the Cybermen's plan in Earthshock is better to understand, More on that on Day 7.

[@benbastianiartmusic1421]

17:51 second Doctor dealing with the bailiffs

[@zealferal]

13:47 🎵 𝑾𝑬 𝑨𝑹𝑬 𝑼𝑷𝑮𝑹𝑨𝑫𝑰𝑵𝑮 𝑰𝑵 𝑻𝑯𝑬 𝑨𝑰𝑹 𝑾𝑬 𝑨𝑹𝑬 𝑭𝑳𝑶𝑨𝑻𝑰𝑵𝑮 𝑰𝑵 𝑨 𝑺𝑻𝑨𝑹𝑳𝑰𝑻 𝑺𝑲𝒀 🎵

[@ptcarbonproductions2013]

10:18 Me, a fan of The Librarians: Oh, trust me, it's a perfect term.

[@johngurnhill8743]

We need this on dvd I know it's missing

[@Luke-1296]

I actually really like this story. I think it’s really underrated. I think it would be more appreciated if it was animated.

[@DalekTheSupreme]

Even though I think I noticed the pacing issues even in the novelization (been a while since I read it), "The Wheel in Space is essentially murder" is the funniest take I never expected to hear.

[@harleyhartley3168]

10:30 Zoe is a Candace Owens stan confirmed

[@scaleproductions711]

17:16 - 17:25 And a Ben Shapiro stan too by the looks of it.

[@Mark-nh2hs]

I enjoyed this story novelisation I read from the local Library as a youngster and still have a soft spot for the adventure lol

[@alfje5492]

Why does nobody try to dock that rocket with the space station? Then again, with space walks being as easy as going down to the shops, perhaps humanity never developped docking technology.

[@chrisbutler501]

Saw the 3D animation of the Wheel in Space. Needs to be animated on disc. Great story nevertheless. Will recommend

[@costelinha1867]

Well, just finished this serial, so gotta watch Mr TARDIS talk about the first bad classic Cybermen story. This story really sucks, and Zoe is probably the only redeeming factor about it in my opinion.

[@DoobyShoo]

5:59 the squats

[@cameronthomas4946]

Hey maybe the target novel’s okay? Just had a look at the price on ebay nevermind

[@iKillerZombie]

19:11 Dude... are you okay?

[@williamclarke4170]

Found this one quite boring and slow. Felt the Cybermen were beaten too easily

[@harrietlyall1991]

These early Dr Who series still have the power to enthral. Even although they are nothing like as technically sophisticated as today’s productions, the concepts and the monsters are compelling. I used to love the Ron Grainer and Delia Derbyshire intro music, and the way the Doctor’s face emerged from the swirling lights. The later, jazzed-up intro sequences were less nuanced and atmospheric.

[@thomasstevens2746]

I still need to watch This One

[@fjccommish]

Why have background music the whole time?

[@Eltonlaleham]

There are some fans who say this story could have had any enemy in it and it was not necessary for the CYbermen

[@scaleproductions711]

12:25 - 12:31 Don't worry. If it's any consolation I'm half-Glaswegian and my Scottish accent is horrible.

[@eldersillusion]

Not connected to video Stephen baxter wrote book set just before this serial

[@samuelbarber6177]

A failed crossover... don’t worry, we’ll get a real one in 38 years.

[@dustin_4501]

But shame to the Cybermen they die easier said than done.

[@samuelbarber6177]

@@dustin_4501 actually, I think they die easier done than said in Doomsday

[@dustin_4501]

@@samuelbarber6177 "STUPID HUMAN BRAIN" but anyway they should respect the Cybermen, Daleks are Daleks but no need to make them clowns.

[@LCProductionCompany]

I still love the complete 180 you had in: "The wheel in space is bad, but it's not offensively bad. It's just a waist of time. And your life is maid if time... so by waiting that time your taking away your life... making it essentially murder. The wheel in space is offencivelly bad."

[@benbrooks-i7q]

I like to see the cybermen comic

[@keithgibbings4048]

Had a massive crush on zoe, I remember watching this, I was 8 years old.

[@ishaandw]

I know it's not a great story but if I ever watch it, I will probably enjoy it.

[@Eltonlaleham]

The Cybermen in this story are sparse in number

[@rwest3955]

Idk I really like this one i enjoyed the slow tempo