MSBS "Grot" Ceremonial Parade Rifle (Honor Guard Version)

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The first version of the new MSBS "Grot" rifle purchased by the Polish government was actually a special version for ceremonial parade use. In order to make the gun suitable to that role, a surprising number of changes were made to it - almost every element is different than the standard service version. The stock is fixed and given a heavy steel buttplate, the fire control system is semiauto only, the right-side magazine release is disabled, the sights and low-profile and non-adjustable, the charging handle is extended, the gas system is left off completely, the barrel is extended, a special grasping ring is added to the barrel, and the bayonet release is reduced in profile.
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[@YamaDrahma]

I just want to appriceate how progress in Polish firearm production can be tracked by Ian's increasingly better pronunciation of "Fabryka broni"

[@vanderherring]

As a fellow Pole, I concur :D

[@666marq]

They should rename it as Fabłyka Błoni to make pronunciation easier for American gun kinks.

[@mariostepien4526]

Fabryka Broni... Coś pięknego ❤️💪👍🔥

[@villentretenmerth11]

@@666marqmam na imię Paweł… to tak nie działa 🙃 Typowe wymowy: Pawel Pałel Po wyjaśnieniu: Pawew PaweL Paweeu Paweł (może ze trzy osoby)

[@666marq]

@@villentretenmerth11 To trochę inna sytuacją, "ł" na końcu wyrazu to dla nich abstrakcja. Ja mam na imię Marek i najczęściej wymawiają "Małek" (Maueck), co ciekawe 'r' w 'Mark' wymawiają lepiej, bo są przyzwyczajeni do zbitki 'ark' - arc, dark, shark, spark...) 'R' mimo że u nich występuje, to nie jest takie ostre jak polskie, a leniwe r jest dosyć podobne do ł, (w Polsce jest to kwalifikowane jako wada wymowy:) dlatego też tak dla jaj napisałem z tą zmianą nazwy fabryki (:

[@a4channoob]

"I want a ceremonial grade rifle" "You mean military grade?" "No, I want something that can be used as a hammer and look good doing so"

[@WingMaster562]

Chrome buttplate M1/M14 have entered the chatroom L59A1 Drill Rifle have entered the chatroom Golden AK have entered the chatroom Nickel plated Type 73 have entered the chatroom

[@smilingpolitely12345]

Well reason why MSBS ceremonial version was create is in 2015 pis have won election in Poland and they started arm Polish army , that was just a year after Russian invasion of Krymea , they have created WOT (territorial defence force) who was second used of MSBS , to test it on civilian soldiers , and ceremonial version was creted because of patriotic reasons , SKS is soviet rifle , so neede to go , MSBS was not ready at the time , so basic ceremonial version was rushed to replace "hated" SKS.

[@jaapweel1]

so you're saying this all happened because a bunch of forced birther homophobes care more about appearances than about actually being useful? why am I not surprised.

[@jackswiatek5221]

Back when I was living on my grandma farm we were making such abound out of any tree we could find on our path.

[@grzechu9821]

@@smilingpolitely12345 the replacement wasn't solely because "the sks was soviet", most of them were in a poor condition and needed complete refubrishing long before PiS took over. The military sought to replace their old SKS rifles by buying new ones on two separate occasions since 2012, but couldnt find anyone to sell them brand new SKS. They even considered buying Mausers like Border Guards, but then they came to a conclusion, that MSBS is the gun they want to acquire in future as their standard rifle anyways.

[@johnjennings2672]

Flash forward twenty five years: "I just got this cool rifle from Century Arms, but it can only fire one time, what's wrong with it?"

[@goldenwheeledbanshee9160]

Kind of rifle, is it?

[@colindegrow1475]

That remark was sub MOA. 😅

[@williamk1060]

The way things are going, that'll be the only thing we can legally get😢

[@friedrichweitzer3071]

I think it's the fully automatic bolt action rifle that all ant-gun people are so afraid of.

[@Johnny-tq9no]

You mean like those pumpa action at 15s 😅

[@jaskij]

Something I only realized yesterday: a factory called Archer (Łucznik in Polish) makes rifles called Arrowhead (that's what Grot means in Polish). That said, the rifle is actually named after a WW2 resistance general, who's callsign was Grot.

[@mrwindsor7834]

It's like they made a UK compliant version of the grot

[@polymorphesquirrel]

Ouch xD

[@bulukacarlos4751]

I never imagined specifications for a ceremonial rifle, beyond a little chrome or polished parts. Thank you very much. Greetings from Argentine Patagonia.

[@aro8000]

You have to be well Polish to polish a Polish bayonet well. Greetings from Poland.

[@neumann2550]

Is night sky in Patagonia as beatiful as I saw it in top gear? Tha's one of places I want to go someday.

[@bulukacarlos4751]

The Patagonian steppe (where I live) is a dry and quite windy area. The suspended dust usually ruins the view, but when there is no wind (and even more so if it rained and the dust calmed down), the sky is magnificent. In Western Patagonia, near Chile, there are the mountains, it is more humid and the sky is always spectacular...but there are usually more clouds there.@@neumann2550

[@chrisgs8727]

@@neumann2550 Hurry...now argentina is extremely cheap..you can eat like a king for 10bucks

[@hendriktonisson2915]

Greetings to our Polish friends from Estonia!

[@flummi6966]

Greetings from DE, what are we gonna do whit that BMW assembly thing.

[@michafojt2110]

Best regards, and thank you for helping with securing our borders during the migration crisis :)

[@BuchalterSzmulami]

Best regards to all Estonian friends too!

[@sheevpalpatine9301]

Hi!

[@PitchBlackYeti]

When I was visiting Buckingham Palace the first thing that struck me is how unsuited the L85's were for ceremonial duty. When standing at attention the barrel end barely reached the soldier's shoulder, it looked even more comical while the guard was marching almost like the weapon was just about to slip under his armpit.

[@2Skinny]

Probably plenty of L1A1s that would be better (if heavier).

[@nickb2179]

they’re fine to do drill with, my first RSM was a coldstream guardsman and we had no trouble with it. Besides, you stick a bayonet it for a parade - and it gets plenty long enough don’t you worry!

[@skoshman1]

@@2Skinny While this is true, every one of those SA80 had a full mag for a reason. The guard might be ceremonial, but take the 'guard' role very seriously. If needed, they are the quick reaction force with decisive and if needed, lethal effect. So the use of the current service rifle makes sense because that's what they go to war with, and that's what they are trained on. Fancy gun throwing with the L1A1 would be quite the sight to behold though. I will not deny that.

[@alimanski7941]

Same deal with the Tavor; the IDF is notoriously bad in ceremonial drills, so no chance they'll give soldiers ceremonial rifles. When I graduated officer school, we just banged our M16s on the ground and abused them. Only exception I think is that for some bizarre reason, in the Independence Day parade, the parliamentary guard uses Uzis and Galils.

[@PitchBlackYeti]

@@skoshman1 That's true, they are true guards albeit fancy dressed ones that's why they have to parade around with combat rifles instead of say L1A1's or ceremonial Enfields. Don't know what are the prerequisites for becoming a Royal guard but those I saw were all pretty tall which didn't do the L85 any favors

[@radosaworman7628]

My father always was mildly angry at a fact that we used SKS's for so long- He argued that even polish made k98 would be more apropriate and for years he wondered why polish government didn't even investigate small scale reproductions of Wz.38m's just to give something not stinking of commiuninsm.

[@ChillDudelD]

Wz. 38M Maroszeks would have been definitely the best choice for a Polish ceremonial rifle.

[@manender1020]

He now got something stinking of liberalism

[@radosaworman7628]

@@manender1020 he has something actually Polish to gawk at during military parade.- instead of the gun produced practically exclusively by our oppressors.

[@manender1020]

@@radosaworman7628 this gun is heavily based on the platform designed and produced by American oppressors, and is produced by the regime being, in fact, American puppet

[@mikeceebo8611]

what exactly is liberal about this gun lol@@manender1020

[@glennpettersson9002]

I did a little over seven years in the ADF and managed to do eight royal guards with the beloved 😏 L1A1. We were always being barked at about hooking our fingers on the foresight when shouldering arms from attention, it was a heavy lump. It's refreshing to see people putting thought into it.

[@skepticalbadger]

Yeah, but your L1A1 was fully functional. This thing is a prop, effectively. Straight pull, blanks only.

[@iskandartaib]

​@@skepticalbadgerI suspect it could actually fire live ammunition if needed. There's no need for a blank adapter at the end of the barrel since it doesn't have to cycle in any case.

[@richardbell7678]

@@skepticalbadger The amusing thought is that, with different sights attached, it becomes the weapon for a dedicated rifle grenadier.

[@klegdixal3529]

@@skepticalbadger it sure is a straight pull but i didn't catch the moment it was stated that it cannot fire live ammo.

[@alltat]

@@klegdixal3529 It can fire them, but with purely decorative sights, you won't hit much beyond (blunt) bayonet range anyway.

[@irishpsalteri]

This is very interesting. Never thought about modern rifles for ceremonial purposes. Imagine full drill with a bull pup even never occurred to me. Thanks.

[@killzoneisa]

You can't do some drills with bullpups that why full size are used.

[@Tallmios]

Don't the British use their L85s for ceremonies? EDIT: A comment below mentions how unsuitable it is for parades :D

[@c1ph3rpunk]

US Navy: I think we still have some 1903 Springfield’s in stock, we’ll just use those.

[@Ghelasin]

​@@killzoneisa The Brits do fine with using bullpups in ceremonial drills.

[@matthewpham9525]

The drills are modified a bit, but Britain, China, and pretty much every other country uses their bullpup rifles for drill and ceremony

[@terryc522]

Talking about ceremonial drill “abuse” The US Marine Silent Drill team did one of their presentations at Old Fort Henry in Kingston Ontario (Canada) and one of their wood stocks broke after a failed catch. The stock is on display at Old Fort Henry and the video can be found (maybe- it’s been a while since I looked) on KZbin

[@dlmsarge8329]

I was a member of the Fort Henry Guard throughout my university years and had the privilege of working with the Marines from 8th and I and the silent drill team several times. Fascinating to see a bit of what goes into their performances, their discipline and and concentration is truly impressive!!

[@wayneantoniazzi2706]

There's no shortage of M1 Garand stocks, the Marine Silent Drill Team expects things like this to happen.

[@kutter_ttl6786]

Funny thing, I was just there yesterday. There was a display highlighting the close relationship the Fort has with the USMC. They had a dress blues tunic, a drum gifted in the 50s, pictures, and newspaper clippings, but I don't recall seeing a broken stock.

[@MichaelPoage666]

I was never on a drill team, but just doing basic drill in boot camp, our Drill Instructor was like, "Slap that handguard hard! Don't be afraid to break a rifle, I'd love to tell the other drill instructors that I had a private so fucking bad that they broke a handguard!" Lol

[@MyFaithShines]

ive seen this! it was on yt somewhere

[@Willy_Tepes]

Drill use destroys rifles. One of the G-3 rifles I had in the military had been extensively used in drill and had almost all the bluing worn off. The stock was loose and I could not hit anything beyond 150 meters with it. The other one I got had hardly been used and landed me second place in the battalion championship.

[@Locutus494]

The bluing being worn off is not from drill. Rather, it's from the excessive over cleaning that militaries force recruits to do. The constant, endless scrubbing and rubbing to a white-glove inspection-ready condition we were trained to do is completely unnecessary and actually harmful.

[@BuggaBoy69]

That’s not true of drill rifles, armorers are paid to make sure that rifles are functional. They don’t have to be pretty but the core components have to be functional. I was issued an m16a4 that’s receiver was marked originally as an m16a2. The rifle had been through the hands of 100’s of recruits, dragged through sand, mud, and submerged underwater countless times, and had 10’s of thousands of drilling hours on it. The rifle reliably hit a man sized target at 500m over and over again. That’s not a one off rifle either. Every single m16a4 in U.S. Marine Corps boot camp goes through the same abuse and 100’s of recruits use them to qualify at 500 meters every single year.

[@Willy_Tepes]

You obviously have a different system and a different rifle. A wobbly stock does not give good accuracy.@@BuggaBoy69

[@98RandR]

Some small corrections 1. Barrel assembly is for blanks only (live ammo won't fit in the chamber), but can easily be changed for standard one making it fully operational. 2. It actually does have full auto trigger only selector barrel has to be changed to allow switching to that position. 3. Handguard is completely different than

[@polymorphesquirrel]

So, soldiers on guard duty (Tomb of an Unknown Soldier and the like) do not have live ammo loaded? Not that it really matters, but seems kind of lame. It's not the same thing as a parade.

[@98RandR]

@@polymorphesquirrel Yes, only blanks will chamber with that barrel.

[@poetryflynn3712]

@@polymorphesquirrel Actually, if I remember, the entire chamber is soldered shut in the specific case of the Unknown Soldier - could be wrong though. Edit: I just realized there are multiple different Tombs of the Unknown Soliders across the world. I'm specifically talking about the US variant in Washington D.C.

[@johnnyenglish583]

@@polymorphesquirrel why would they have live ammo? What for? It's not the US, nobody's gonna shoot at them...

[@TheFanatical1]

One of my absolute favourite parts of any institution-disassembly video is when it's remarked that actually they've done this thing backwards, or have a incorrectly installed a part that makes it especially difficult to do. Always funny to see.

[@psychopathmedia]

It's like knowing more than your doctor

[@DigaStoleMyShovel]

Thanks Ian! I have never considered how different a ceremonial rifle might be. Very neat :)

[@Suli5241]

For years there were ideas of redevolping and using polish mausers kbk wz.29 for ceremonial purposes, then there was an idea for recreating the legendary Kbsp wz. 1938M by Maroszek, but in the end we end up with msbs

[@jakubfabisiak9810]

You can see these in Warsaw at the tomb of the unknown soldier (changing of the guard at full hour)

[@markchabot3684]

I was honor guard in coast guard boot camp (45 years ago). We used '03 springfields, chrome plated of course.

[@pabloemilio2852]

once again a great episode Ian, thanks for the good work, sincerely a polish fan of your channel

[@vgotnofingers]

This has to be the best gun channel on the net. Great work, as always.

[@bendyer1465]

This channel is lit 🔥

[@John-mf6ky]

Probably the best firearms content and education/history on the net period imho

[@hondasaurusrex6998]

Thanks for the video. Brings a smile on my ye olde face to see weapons made in my old country. Thanks Ian!

[@BraindeadCRY]

This thing is going to be an incredible collectors item in a couple of decades

[@koyot2154]

omg its just 15 seconds and I already love how you say "fabryka broni" :)

[@dariuszzukowski5244]

I found the bayonet really neat, so I checked its price in Polish shops: it's $180, wow!

[@tomclanys]

that's FB for you. Overcharging, because it's pretty ;)

[@dougler500]

Never, ever thought about this angle of firearms design. So cool!

[@herknorth8691]

Many years ago I took a vacation in Hawaii and from my hotel room I could see some cadets (?) doing rifle drill on the roof of another building. They would twirl the rifles around very aggressively and, more than once, they'd lose control of one and it would fly through the air and come smashing down on the hard surface of the roof. I think they were using Garands, probably because they were hard to break.

[@lukenakahara7272]

Awesome Data Ian. Thank you!

[@paranoiia8]

That knife tho... damn its look cool with that curved handle

[@EnglishPersonAnon]

Google Extrema Ratio knives. Admire the lines, turn pale at the prices.

[@polymorphesquirrel]

Yeah, the level of 'inspiration' is kind of lame here. Also, I wonder if all of the ceremonial bayonets have their tips rounded, because it looks like 'My First Victorinox'.

[@SinginShooter]

Have you seen those soldiers from Hammerfell? They've got curved swords. Curved. Swords.

[@Kabanikidza]

*kurwed.

[@nicflatterie7772]

I joined the Canadian army the first year we were issued C7 rifles. We broke a LOT of those on parades. the previous rifle (FN FAL) was so solid it was smacked around. The drill instructors were used to the C1 so they would tell us to hit the rifles on the ground, or to slap it hard on a present arms. I even saw parts fly off rifles!

[@STRAKAZulu]

This is a gorgeous variant.

[@skepticalbadger]

If you like straight-pull glorified blank-firers I guess.

[@RustedCroaker]

SKS was much better

[@Gameprojordan]

This is like one of those variants where it's specifically made to be as cheap as possible and sold to some poor 3rd world country that can't afford the regular variant 😂

[@Kabanikidza]

@@RustedCroaker POV: you are desperately looking for something that is not sks. Anything. Is it sks? No? Ok, it will fit.

[@midnightanimal4598]

I recently got to see these being fired at a ceremony near Zwierzyniec. I wasn't sure exactly what they were at the time but here comes Ian to set the record straight lol.

[@purpleneons]

i like how this can mean pretty much any area in Poland because Zwierzyniec is probably one of the most common village names here lol

[@SteamCrane]

Quite a bit cooler than I expected!

[@FlopsPL]

Last Saturday I saw new Grot version for civilian market. Very nice, very light.

[@kursantstrzelecki2958]

Heavier than Beryl.

[@cbroz7492]

...when I visited Prague in July of 1994, the Presidential guard was using the old Vz52s with the magwell covered with a piece of sheet metal..I took copies ouctures,but the proocessor in Berlin buggered the entire roll

[@tarnvedra9952]

They still use these for ceremonial purposes, while having new Scorpions, Brens and CZ sniper rifles backstage if needed.

[@buzdygan5488]

Every time i hear Ian say "Fabryka Broni" i chuckle

[@cedhome7945]

Does it translate to fangita mahoosive ?

[@user-eq4fe7zu9b]

@@cedhome7945 no it translates to 'arms (or weapons) factory"

[@hoilst265]

@@user-eq4fe7zu9b It's like the Maserati Quattroporte - sounds sexy as hell if you're a non-Italian speaker. But "Maserati Four Door" is about the most boring name for a car ever.

[@user-cr4sc1ht9t]

@@hoilst265 *Ford Ka enters the chat*

[@hoilst265]

@@user-cr4sc1ht9t I will always have a soft spot for that car for being the most gloriously New Edge of Ford's millennium designs. Well, after the AU Falcon.

[@comettoPL]

Very informative, thanks Ian!

[@JamesLaserpimpWalsh]

Thanks Ian. That has a NICE bayonet.

[@chaosvolt]

It's definitely interesting the sort of practical considerations that had to go into a ceremonial design, when the word usually conveys the mental image of practicality being the opposite of the design's intent.

[@eljefeamericano4308]

"It's going to get banged on the ground regularly and forcefully." -Ian McCollum, 2023

[@williamdixon8283]

Been watching your newest content using the new app. I must say it works flawlessly and I’m not missing anything like I sometimes do using KZbin. Love Bloke, and 9hole, plus British Muzzleloader! I do wish Othias and May had gotten involved though…

[@skepticalbadger]

It doesn't make financial sense for them.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

It would make great financial sense for them, and I hope they decide to join us. They have an open door any time.

[@Fish-ub3wn]

@@ForgottenWeapons Have You considered non-english speaking channels about guns?

[@williamromine5715]

​@@ForgottenWeapons am 81 years old, and signed up for your most recent channel. Being a computer illiterate(I didn't retire until 2020 to take care of my invalid wife), I can barely navigate You-Tube. I am having some difficulty with the new channel. I also miss the comments section. I understand why you created a new channel. You-Tube is just dumb when it comes to fire arms. I hope you don't abandon your You-Tube channel. Best wishes for your new endeavor.

[@davidjernigan7576]

Interesting that they didn't use a locking screw to hold the bayonet

[@noahboat580]

I was just wondering about polish firearms because i have italian/pol roots and getting in-awe over the beretta M9A4, then i see this rifle. Too cool

[@noahboat580]

​​@@Elatenlyoure damn right 🇺🇸 🐍 🎸 🔫🇮🇹🍕 🇵🇱

[@GunsGuy1990]

Grot is excellent rifle in many ways. But It think it would still be nicer if the our Maroszek wz.38 became the parade weapon someday :)

[@PanProper]

Prototyp ?

[@christopherreed4723]

Most modern armies reach back in time to a past service rifle for drill. The Wachbattalion of the Bundeswehr uses the Kar98k, as do quite a few other countries (the Chilean Carabineros being one). The US military uses the M14, with the exception of the Marines, who use the M1 Garand. The Garand is also used by the Greek Evzones and, iirc, the Turkish military honor guards as well. Poland can't. Whatever their service rifle prior to 1939 was, it's highly unlikely that more than a handful survived the war. The SKS was a stopgap, and an unpalatable one at that, since it was a "gift" from the Soviet Union. A modern, preferably Polish, rifle had to happen, and since the drill manual wasn't going to get re-written, they had to make a version that could take the drill. It's also important to note that not *all* ceremonial guard units are entirely ceremonial. I'm not referring to the occasional mouthbreather who manages to provoke a British guardsman or a soldier of the US 3rd Infantry at Arlington. During the 1980s my parents vacationed in Sweden quite a bit, and my father took me to watch the daily guard mount in Stockholm, as we'd watched it in London before that. True, the actual life guards - at that time still the separate Svea and Göta regiments - carried Mausers, but other units provided the guard mount as well, and they carried AK4s (aka Swedish G3s) and occasionally the Ksp45 submachine gun. What caught our eye was that the modern weapons *all* had a bright yellow (or possibly red) plastic cover blocking the ejection port. Discreet inquiry revealed that this was a safety device independent of whatever mechanical safety was on the weapon. It could be yanked off the weapon on a split second if needed, but it blocked the bolt, preventing a round from being chambered. Now why would a rifle that was unloaded, used for ceremonial duty, need that? After all, they didn't *actually* have...live...ammo. Right??? We never got a definitive answer for that...which is in itself a pretty definitive answer. Another clue was that one night when we passed the royal palace after nightfall on the way back to our hotel after an excellent dinner, we observed the guards we'd watched take over that afternoon at their posts. But not in their natty Prussian style dress uniforms. Now they were wearing Swedish green splinter camo, web gear, a beret instead of the pickelhaube helmet, and a very modern steel helmet with camo netting clipped to their gear. Gone, as well, were the Mauser rifles. Now they carried AK4s. With yellow plastic covers over the ejection ports. Nope. No live ammo here, Sir. Nothing to see, movealongnow...😏

[@kursantstrzelecki2958]

"Whatever their service rifle prior to 1939 was, it's highly unlikely that more than a handful survived the war. " - Actually tens of thousands pre-war Polish Mausers (licenced, manufactured in Poland) survived. But the government that pushed MSBS "Grot" is allergic to anything that sound German (and passed that allergy onto their voters), so actual, old Polish Mausers are out of question.

[@williamk1060]

I always wondered how one would drill with a modern carbine. In the Marine Corps, we still use the M16A4 in boot camp where we first learn drill, and whenever we do a funeral detail (USMC Reserves) we pull out the A4s because its perfect for all the drill movements. However, the professional USMC drill team uses M1 garands, and most units have some deacivated M14s laying around for the colorguard (flag barers) to carry with their flags. I understand the US Army drill team uses M14s as well. Im not sure what the army does for normal drill events however, because they seem to have completely divested themselves of M16s.

[@tomcraven47]

2:30 The same reason recruits use M16A4s in boot instead of the M4. Drill is pretty hard with a carbine.

[@robertelmore3616]

I don't think they do that anymore. I was issued an M4A1 in OSUT.

[@flawless_Cowboy]

​@@robertelmore3616they do. I just got done with boot camp and we used the A4 all the way through.

[@tomcraven47]

@@flawless_Cowboy that's what my newest guy said too. Thanks.

[@geodkyt]

​@@robertelmore3616From his terminology, and the fact he's referencing an M16A4, I'd be willing to bet he's a Marine. The Army went from the M16A2 to the M4, while the Marines adopted the M16A4 and resisted issuing the M4 as a standard rifle (they kept it as a "carbine" for "carbine roles" as long as they could), and call Basic "boot camp", which honestly i never encountered a modern US Army soldier call it, even when I was a Drill Sergeant.

[@flawless_Cowboy]

@@tomcraven47 np my guy

[@judelarkin2883]

The man gets around. You never know what armory in what country he is going to pop up in.

[@BigFootpl]

They didn't put in the gas system, so they don't loose gas regulator on parade :P And the buttstock is different so it does not break like normal one...

[@Cyan_Nightingale]

Wow this is interesting, modern assault rifles as ceremonial rifle? Never seen its equivalent (SCAR, CZ805, Bushmaster ACR, etc) being used for such!

[@Beneficiis]

It is a prop but - it can be technically adapted if need be for combat use. Because combat version internals still fit the frame. Obviously that would mean changing almost everything inside, from barrel to trigger group but it can be technically done.

[@andrewnawarycz3026]

Love the bayonet design.

[@WilhelmScreamer]

An interesting solution to problems I did not know existed.

[@jorgewhite6658]

Part of the ceremonial drill in Polish forces is to ram the palm of the hand hard on the charging handle , hence the oversize in this case

[@HalIOfFamer]

It should have been just a standard rifle with a longer barrel and all those non ambi and snagging features. But it's nice to see them putting in work to make the shiny boots feel better about their job.

[@MarbelCube]

Better than SKS on ceremonies for sure, but mauser or mannlicher rifles would be better. Ultimetly I think Polish Honor Gourd deserve wz. 38 rifles and it was reversed engineerd and built by gunsmith Mr. Tobys. Only a matter of making a deal and tooling machines in FB.

[@kaianmontenegrotobias750]

I think that they should use their Mosin-Nagant variation. It may not best the best bolt action in the world, but it is a great looking garbage rod.

[@MarbelCube]

​@@kaianmontenegrotobias750 Poland wants to to get rid off soviet influence in it's military. How ever there was a period where SWT-40 was more dominant and that is sick looking rifle from SU.

[@JakubZN]

They did make some replicas of 1920's and 30's service rifles for cavalry ceremonial unit. So FB can definately make them. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalry_Squadron_of_the_Polish_Armed_Forces

[@frankbrowning328]

Beautiful example!

[@burlatsdemontaigne6147]

The roughest ceremonial routine I ever saw was the by the Greek soldiers in Athens. They slam their rifles butts down so hard they get sparks flying. Would love to see one of their rifles. Must be built like tanks.

[@kursantstrzelecki2958]

You can tinker with the metal on the but so it sparks A LOT when slammed. Same trick is used by horse-mounted policemen when dealing with protesters/unrest/street riots: secret is in what you attach to the metal that contacts pavement.

[@gaw5024]

And now I'm stuck imagining what a "parade" M16 would look like

[@monkegaming6416]

'merica

[@davanderer9686]

When I saw this I thought it looks like a 40K guardsmen lasgun😮

[@Revener666]

Done parade drills with the FNC, had to carry in a akward positon that really killed your arm. :)

[@superfamilyallosauridae6505]

The reason the US Army/USMC don't use the M4 for ceremonial use is not due to durability, it is due to it ergonomically not meeting the needs of a ceremonial rifle. The M16 would absolutely be a suitable ceremonial rifle, because it is long enough, and the Grot here is ergonomically modelled after it. See the 20 inch barrel, and the cone you're supposed to grab behind the bayo lug exactly on the barrel where an M16's FSB would be. The M16 is not generally used essentially because we have a ton of M14s and nothing else to do with them. In fact, we had so many and so little else to do with them we tried to use them as DMRs, which did not go well generally. However, for all sorts of purposes, in the US military M16s ARE used, just usually not by dedicated drill teams. The M16 is the base of the USMC's current drill autism and has been for a very long time. Marines learn drill on M16s long before they ever get the chance to touch an M1 or M14 or M1903 or any other classic drill rifle. I guarantee you, M4s and M16s with their aluminum buffer tubes and durable fixed and collapsing stocks are NOT having problems with drill from breaking. We slap those things around just to hear the parts move and clap. It sounds beautiful. When I finally decided to buy a surplus FN M16A4 upper, the first thing I did was port arms, then to the deck, just to hear the CLAP of smacking the barrel around.

[@marcraygun6290]

Ideal for the UK firearms owner as I believe under our law you can own any Rifle which is not semi auro....with the appropriate license

[@kiwigrunt330]

Interesting. We have always adjusted our parade drills to the rifle, not the other way around.

[@DB-yj3qc]

Decades ago, I got to watch one of French foreign legion units doing a ceremony in Paris with the new "Bullpup" rifles, the Famas. Being a short rifle, I think the D&C with them would be a P.T.A. so I definitely see that rifle as a good choice. Many different times, I've done D&C with multiple different rifles in the Army. From 1906, M1 M16a1, M16a2, M249, and M60 to the point of having to explain to NCO's and Officer's what was in the Army's Drill and Ceremony manual. Doing parades with M1 or M14 isn't something I enjoyed. I'd choose an M16a1 or that one anytime. I actually experienced a parade with M1 in the VFW. I was a member of, then later in Germany, the unit I was in found out that I had experience with M1. So I got detailed for representing past generation soldiers in full dress uniform and equipment a few times.

[@polymorphesquirrel]

Yeah, British guards with woolly hats look a bit comical with their L85A2.

[@jeanvonestling7408]

I like it, but I whish they used Maroszek reproductions instead. I understand that they wanted to push GROT as much as they could, but Maroszek would be consistent with the common idea of wooded single fire or bolt action guns serving as parade rifles.

[@conradsz]

It was never adopted and doesn’t mean anything for most people in Poland. The Grot is something everyone can be proud of and I think it’s pretty cool that the ceremonial troops are using a modern and cool looking rifle.

[@kursantstrzelecki2958]

@@conradsz "The Grot is something everyone can be proud of" - unless they were issued one of the early models...

[@johnnyenglish583]

The Maroszek was an absolutely gorgeous rifle, I wish they developed it for the drill squad instead of the MSBS.

[@therealcarlxii]

I started the video, saw the gun and thought: "Wow, that´s a nice looking rifle". Guess that´s what you want from a parade rifle.

[@polymorphesquirrel]

Cool! How many parts are actually interchangable? It looks like everything, except maybe the trigger group, have been modified, which goes a bit counter the whole concept of modularity. Anyway, I'd now love to see ceremonial rifles of other forces!

[@petesheppard1709]

I have to wonder if someone pranked Ian with that recoil spring..🤔.😄

[@DoomMajster]

Nice video! Greetings from Poland!

[@medic7698]

Interesting. The British army's ceremonial troops, the Brigade of Guards use the standard issue rifle. Of course they don't feel the need to throw their weapons around. Also our chaps and chapesses are all purpose.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

And the L85A1 came pre-broken anyway, so why not?

[@medic7698]

@@ForgottenWeapons probably because we don't need to be ostentatious. I was unfortunately issued the A1 just prior to going on an Op Banner tour. But as you yourself know the thing improved. My personal weapon for most of my service was the SMG which I also didn't particularly like.

[@nathanbendt7422]

@@medic7698 Not a whole lot to be ostentatious about last time I checked...

[@medic7698]

@@nathanbendt7422 so, is that snide comment based on any particular knowledge or experience?

[@loupiscanis9449]

Thank you , Ian . 🐺Loupis Canis .

[@MrCantStopTheRobot]

So. When do we see you running one of these for a Brutality match?

[@diegoferreiro9478]

We demand a ceremonial Grot rifle At The Range!

[@the-hey-maker]

Are the barrels in these ceremonial rifles altered to only be able to fire blanks? Ian did not mention that, but I'm curious. It seems to be a very reasonable alteration to a rifle of this purpose.

[@rafalganowicz1939]

I really want one!

[@Mr_Dopey]

I just recently discovered MTB Biathlon. It combines my two favorite outdoor activities, range shooting and mountain biking. It seems the most common competitions people use .22 or CO² pellet rifles. I personally would like to see competition involving rifle choice, a range at 300-500 yards, and part of the course that cannot be traversed on a bike. If anyone knows of any competition close to this please post it.

[@polymorphesquirrel]

Wow. Do you ride with it on your back? A full length gun must be painfully uncomfortable, especially downhill.

[@Mr_Dopey]

@@polymorphesquirrel I have personally not attempted any of this. I have just recently discovered it. From what I have seen the rigs are similar to what they use in Olympic biathlon. I have seen them use air rifles in what look like public parks. There also seems to be MTB/Archery biathlon. I personally would be interested in something that combines mountain biking and a hunting rifle. From what I understand it originates with the Norwegians and was dominated by Swedes. When it started competitors simply used their hunting rifles.

[@kursantstrzelecki2958]

@@polymorphesquirrel " Do you ride with it on your back?" - enter bicycle mounts, a la early WW2 bicycle troops.

[@reiaboo3805]

the adjustments they made are cool, but a modern rifle is never going to look as good as a wood rifle in parade use. those wood rifles also have the history

[@iskandartaib]

5:00 - they're not semi-auto either, come to think of it...

[@iskandartaib]

​@@AIRDRACNo, they have to be cycled manually for each shot, so they're no more semi-auto than a Lee Enfield would be. I have often wondered how the British did parade drill with the SA80... Those Guardsmen with the tall bearskins carrying a very short rifle look strange.

[@frankpriolo7735]

So, I guess technically it is a bolt action rifle.

[@iskandartaib]

@@frankpriolo7735 Yes, that's what he said in the video. It's a straight pull bolt action rifle.

[@tommybronze3451]

This is what happens, when you have a manufacturer that is cooperative, rather than giving you an invoice just for meeting them.

[@darkfalc007]

I think one very important reason for making and using a new, domestic rifle in “Representation Company” (Kompanią reprezentacyjna, the parade “unit”) is a symbolic getting rid of old Russian/communist gear. It was also a PR decision, because actual Grots would take a few more years to first be adopted in the WOT (Territorial Defence), and after testing there to be adopted in A2 version by the frontline units. (Interestingly, even when WOT and Border Guard where using MSBSs, the military was still ordering Beryls, and only now is the transition happening at full scale)

[@makingastardestroyer3066]

probably the metal plate on the buttstock is also because of slamming to the ground

[@madredrobin2620]

An Intresting video, do you know if the british do this sort of modification to the l85 there gaurds use?

[@notausgang_offical]

i've seen those on a parade!

[@latekgaming]

My dad's company used to make those bayonets :D

[@diesel7weasel]

What do you think of the US insistence on M14 and wood stocks for parade rifles should or would the M16 or M4 be a suitable and what mods would you advise?

[@d10valentin]

Wait, the honour guards' bayonet isn't sharpened? EDIT: I didn't at first realise it was for drilling, and compared it to my closed reference, the Swedish ceremonial/royal high/honour guard. They carry standard assault rifles, loaded with real cartridges, and real sharpened bayonets. Only differences that I know of are uniform and that the latest pattern of bayonet has a different handle.

[@Kevin-mx1vi]

Off the top of my head I can't recall any honour guard getting into hand-to-hand combat with visiting dignitaries. 😂

[@d10valentin]

Ok, fine, later I understand that these are not meant to be actually guarding anything/-one with.

[@jhnshep]

@@d10valentin ceremonial bayonets are usually chromed like he said, not much point in having an edge, and good luck if caught sharpening one lol

[@aritakalo8011]

*Drill* squads. Two different things. Drill/Ceremonial guard does marches and stuff like military tattoo drill displays. *including throwing and catching the rifles* . In such stuff dull safe blade is good, less likely hood of blood shed in the middle of a tattoo display routine. Honour Guard actually in part real security related guard duty. Drill team is purely ceremonial and for display. Actual honor guard usually would have a sharpened bayonet. It is actually what they most often use, should point be needed making. Not as in stabbing someone, but threatening someone with the bayonet. Since someone might be stupid and think the rifle is always empty and a non issue. Where as depending on security situation the rifle might be loaded or guard be carrying loaded war magazine for "SHTF happens suddenly". It isn't overtly visible is the rifle loaded, loaded with blanks, loaded with war shot or empty. So from outside and with "honor guards aren't real guards" drunk attitude, it looks about as imposing as toy plastic rifle. Since again their assumption would be soldier would never be allowed to actually carry and it's just empty metal club. Sharp bayonet is externally visible and prominently so. Including being close enough... you can tell "oh that actually looks sharpened and not a dull blade". Making the point of, the rifle being carried is real weapon and the guard is real soldier. Don't mess with them or try to disobey their orders.

[@geodkyt]

Hell, standard issue bayonets aren't traditionally sharpened in peacetime. Seriously. They tend to come from the factory unsharpened (saves money, and most commanders don't want soldiers handling really sharp knives in drill), and stay unsharpened until somebody facing a combat deployment says, "Hey, if I'm gonna have to poke somebody with this pig sticker for real, it sure would be nice if it was sharp!"

[@MesaOracle]

Someone is gonna get chewed out for that screw-up with the spring. lol

[@cosmodetriti4440]

That bayonet would trick any officer: looks like a normal knife and not something you would mechanical connect to a rifle.

[@shooter.2578]

Definitely one of the sexiest rifles on forgotten weapons

[@bliczb8772]

Look, I know it's not really up to you, and it'd take quite a lot to butter up FB enough to let you do that, but do you think it'd be possible to do an overview of wz. 2005 Jantar?

[@iduswelton9567]

How about doing a review of the rifle used by the honor guards at the American Unknown Solider, i know its never loaded while being carried by the guards or the rifles of England's castle guards

[@TheBaraneck]

I don't want to sound like a grumpy whitebeard, but to me those old style SKS rifles looked so much better during parades and ceremonies. You simply can't beat the classics!

[@314299]

Interesting rifle. Should they ever surplus those they would be a lot easier to get clear of having never been full or even semi auto.

[@geodkyt]

Given prior precedent, ATF would likely rule that they have "machinegun receivers" because they are "readily restored" to full auto configuration. . ☆ I'll bet they didn't change the internal dimensions of the receiver enough to prevent dropping in full auto parts with only a single hole drilled. The fact the barrel never had a gas port drilled is legally irrelevant, given the NFA classifies the receiver of a machinegun as legally being the entire machinegun.

[@98RandR]

They actually are full auto, they have standard military full auto fire group, only difference is in selector barrel, swapping it for military one would make lower identical to standard issue one.

[@gordoncouger9648]

There are so few of them they would be too costly for almost any of us to buy,

[@kenibnanak5554]

Did they bother to rifle the barrel to the correct bore dimension? I can't see a need to do anything more than put a gas escape hole in the barrel tube, if all the gun will ever fire is a blank cartridge. My old JROTC drill team in High School used to use 1903 Springfields of which we had a large number (as in several hundred, all US owned) It was not unusual every year for someone to flub a toss while learning how and a broken stock could and sometimes did result. The ones with C stocks balanced better, but they tended to crack if someone missed a toss. We didn't have many spare C stocks left in storage when I left, but they still had a half room full of the other Type 5 stock pattern. There were another 40 or so Chrome plated Springfields too, but they only came out for actual parades or ceremonial Honor Guard duty. Only those on the drill team got to use Springfields on parade or at exhibitions or drill team competitions. Everyone else had individually assigned M-14s in my time. . We used to have an actual rifle team and firing ranges. One of my roommates qualified as NRA Distinguished Expert. Laws and society changed, much of the school's lands were auctioned off to Real Estate developers and the guns went away (back to the US Army) too. Today, kast I heard they have a 30 foot pellet gun team at what remains of that institution. Sigh

[@327Federal]

PLEASE REVIEW 327 FEDERAL MAGNUM !! S&W Model 632 comes to mind compared to the Ruger SP101 or Ruger LCR !!

[@kevinoliver3083]

Now I understand why so many tourists assume the guards arent real soldiers.

[@georgesheffield1580]

Seems like it should be importable with the correct logos and marks . Maybeeave off the baronet mount too.

[@LittleRabbit1138]

Oh..... That is a damn sexy bayonet

[@Zbigniew_Nowak]

Can you shoot normal ammunition with it, or does the barrel only allow you to use blank cartridges?

[@rizaradri316]

It's possible to swap the barrel (according to Wikipedia). I'm yet to see more legit info in this matter

[@Angel9932]

Given where the bayonet hooks onto the front of the muzzle plus the sealed flash hider I would surmise that it is only capable of firing blanks. Given it was designed solely for parade and ceremonial use adding a rifled barrel would be a needless expense.

[@piotrmielnik1404]

@@Angel9932 Bayonet hooks on to flash hider in normal MSBS as well, it is way bigger that 5.56 and there is no risk of hitting anything.