MSFS 2024 Preview: City Update 9 | The Future of Photogrammetry in Microsoft Flight Simulator

Let's look at how City Update 9 for MSFS 2020 is actually a preview of Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024.
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00:00 Start
01:10 TIN
03:45 DC Airspace
05:00 DC Photogrammetry
06:30 Vexcel Imaging
09:10 How it is Done
10:20 The Results: "Digital Twin"
11:15 3D Trees!

[@pilotguy27]

Thanks for the explanation of the DC-FRZ. Your explanation was on point, albeit simplistic. It takes a lot more than just permission of ATC, as you sort of explained. As a retired law enforcement officer and pilot I am very familiar with the process. Inside of the FRZ there are severalno fly zones over Washington, DC, that are very small. Navigating this airspace, even with persmission is very tricky. I have had the opportunity to fly within the DC- FRZ as the dedicated law enforcement officer onboard the aircraft for the the local government's ARC/GIS survey flights. Those flights, are basically the same scenario you described except it is done for the local government's own mapping The ARC/GIS maps are highly detailed. Simmers should be thankful that permission was granted to Bing to complete these flights. Simmers should also be thankful that they can "fly" inside of this airspace within the sim with no restrictions. General Aviation flights are banned in the entire DC- FRZ and even commercial flights are extrmeley restricted, especially those into DCA. Even within the DC- SFRA general aviation flights require permission via a flight plan and are monitored. Within the DC-FRZ deviation of the flight plan from either commercial carriers and those for aerial surveys will result in at minimum a phone call upon landing from ATC and an investigation by FAA. These investigations usually result in at least a suspension of the pilot's certificate. So simmes be thankful!!!!

[@IslandSimPilot]

For sure, it's a lot more complicated than I made it, as it wasn't really the point of this video. I know on the pilot side you have to take an online course before you can attempt to fly in there, etc. Maybe that's an interesting idea for a video some time!

[@pilotguy27]

@@IslandSimPilot That would be good. Yes, you need that online course for the SFRA. I am so thankful that I was able to ride along on those GIS flights and got to experience flying over DC. I also had the opportunity to fly several times in the police helicopters and fly down the Potomac really low past DCA. It was amazing, especially at night!!!!

[@ArieGBoom]

Thanks for taking the time to explain this new technique. Very interesting to know.

[@alistairknott6075]

Thanks for this from across the pond. I watch a lot of MSFS2020 stuff and while A330 Driver has proved to be the best for 737 flying learning, you have become my favourite place for learning how to optimise the Sim around PMDG. So thanks a bunch

[@IslandSimPilot]

That is high praise indeed, Alistair, thank you so much for reaching out!

[@JoeDFWAviation]

I used to live in Stafford and I was shocked to see that it got updated. Even on my low end pc and low setting, I thought my old house and my old schools looked pretty good.

[@FlightSimVRDad]

Thanks for explaining this. I had heard Jorge mention getting the flyover permission for DC and actually just finished flying over it myself. WOW! I was impressed. The photogarbage is gone. Even the bridges are correct in this update. I did not see a big hit in frame rate over the Mall and Capitol but did over Reagan Airport. Vehicle traffic needs some work in some areas. I landed in front of the Smithsonian it looks good up close too (aside from a few floating trees)! I think we will get teasers this summer which each update. Thanks again and please keep[ up the good work! -Mike

[@HelmutBemboka]

Thanks for this. For me the biggest issue with photogrammetry is the constant morphing in and out of the landscape/terrain as you approach and fly away. This is so annoying, and I really hope they fix this in 2024. The increased resolution is nice, but not the biggest issue.

[@hpharold23]

If you put everything in Ultra graphics this is not noticeable. But, you need a beefy system to run it. 4080 with 7800X3D minimum specs.

[@HelmutBemboka]

@@hpharold23 I'll try that

[@sascenturion]

Wow... Really interesting stuff! 😮😊 Enjoyed the video lots , thanks very much

[@IslandSimPilot]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@skykingron]

Dude, that was a great and very interesting presentation, I loved it, thank you. Fly safe....

[@IslandSimPilot]

Many thanks, Ron!

[@outdoorsdelmarva5691]

Outstanding explaination!...thanks for sharing!!

[@IslandSimPilot]

You're quite welcome, thanks for watching!

[@corneliuslewis8844]

Sir...thanks so much for explaining as much as you did...greatly appreciated!

[@IslandSimPilot]

Youre so very welcome!

[@andyakarudolfhessiansack7936]

Just flew over DC. Buildings photogrammetry is awesome. Buildings look really nice. And i would say load around 30-50% faster. I just hope theymake use of 500mgbt+ internet. If they could draw 500+ it would spawn the while lot really quickly. Nice glimpse of whats to come.

[@ThomasGrillo]

Thanks for sharing this. Now to find out if I actually have this city update. LOL :)

[@Tom-van-Rijnn]

2024 will be such a great improovement, i'm really looking foreward 👌

[@barrymiddleton6997]

Great info , will check it out and subscribe, thankks 👍🛫🛫🛫

[@Kingnothing75]

Very informative! I had no idea City update 9 was a FS2024 photogrammetry preview n Thanks

[@IslandSimPilot]

You're welcome!

[@charlesc7723]

I’ll have to fly this area to get a taste of things to come. 😀

[@Belatu42]

Great video! I agree with you 100% on how much better the scenery will be for 2024. I’m especially interested to see how the areas will be without photogrammetry with the new machine learning. It is a little misleading though, showing the capital, monuments and White House, since I believe they are hand modeled. Their quality is much sharper than the surrounding buildings. Still the best photogrammetry in game atm.

[@IslandSimPilot]

Agree all across the board. Really looking forward to the new AI stuff in MSFS2024

[@holobolo1661]

Both the photos are TIN. It even says it on the photos. MSFS2020 uses TIN everywhere.

[@Moonfaster]

Amazing video!

[@IslandSimPilot]

Thanks!

[@Photoshopmanipulator]

Thanks to you and the settings you provided us with frame gen, I'm getting a solid 60 fps, I have a RTX 3090 and I run the SIM all at maximum settings, do you think when 2024 flight simulator comes out with my current system will I get pretty much the same fps at maximum settings if not Iam not changing to 2024, it took me too long to get this sim to run this good.

[@gamespeaker]

How do city updates work? LIke is it you just fly over the area of choice from the update and that will be updated? Is there a special mode like discovery flights?

[@MichGoBIue]

Very cool!

[@IslandSimPilot]

Thanks as always, Bob!

[@mikemace7774]

Conducted flights with and without photogrammetry. Using standard Bing data the image is quite realistic in those areas covered by the reworked data. Buildings are sharp and little evidence of “melting”. Cross the line to non-worked areas and the buildings and trees take on a horrible ‘melted’ appearance. Still as more areas receive the treatment it promises a huge increase in image fidelity provided your internet connection can handle the load. I fly in VR and it appears the photogrammetry reduced FPS by 5 to 6 frames but the sheer data load for DC reduces my target 30FPS to about 24/25 for the same settings. Object detail set to 200 for 2D and 150 for 3D.

[@larrybell726]

Having been trained “some years ago” in photo interpretation and photogrammetry when working for one of the three-letter agencies, it warms my heart to see how the technology is now being used… much better than the 1980’s 😉

[@IslandSimPilot]

That’s awesome! It’s funny how much of this stuff we use everyday is military technology. GPS is a good example. Would love to hear the stories you have!

[@larrybell726]

@@IslandSimPilot here is one that I can share… Way back in the days before TERCOM (google it) cruise missiles, had to follow a flight profile that was hardcoded into their memory. It would fly a certain route making certain course changes at certain times and flying at different altitudes to miss vertical obstructions and terrain. One day a missile fired from off the West Coast made landfall and promptly crashed into the top of a hill. It turns out that the elevation data that was used came from technicians who manually digitized USGS quad maps. And one of the technicians neglected to digitize the elevation elevation contour for the top of a hill. Crunch! This was recorded as an “unscheduled termination of flight.”

[@thomasbushman5022]

Since you know the pilot, have they worked with Microsoft on other cities prior to this, but they just weren't rendered with the same software technology? I'm just wondering if there is a backlog of cities already done that just weren't processed, or whether we are starting from scratch with the capturing.

[@IslandSimPilot]

That I don't know. The kid is now a Delta first officer, I'll have to ask him. But I know he flew all up and down the east coast for the year he did this.

[@simonpeart7981]

How does xplane keep up with 2024 when ver12 was behind 2020.

[@Gulfstream69]

I hope to see better performance in VR with 2024, although it looks like they are improving the graphics. You do sound like someone I knew many years ago by the name of Mike.

[@autbo]

I hope they implement quad-views foveated rendering. You can gain almost double the fps in VR with eye-tracked enabled headsets by only rendering where you're looking at the highest resolution.

[@willembont4790]

Exciting times

[@marvinspates924]

Great info!!! I live in Tampa Florida, and I have been seeing a light twin (Aztec!?!?) flying at 700 feet over parts of the city!!! This has been going on both day and night! I have flightradar 24 and I have track the aircraft! I'm guessing that at night he's doing infrared scanning! This is all very thrilling!!! I will have to get rid of fs2020 in order to get fs2024!!!! My SSD is full!!! I think I have less than $150 in add-ons!

[@jrod_pilot_miami]

While I enjoy the update photogrammetry, man the greenery algorithm just makes DC look like a scene out of "I am Legend." If Microsoft gets anything right with MSFS2024, I hope it's that.

[@mammid9622]

As someone who hasn’t seen that pls explain

[@jrod_pilot_miami]

@@mammid9622 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Legend_(film)

[@jrod_pilot_miami]

@@mammid9622 the gist of it, MSFS2020 auto generates waaaaay to much greenery. If you’ve ever flown over Manhattan, you’d know what I mean.

[@mammid9622]

@jrod_pilot_miami true, surprised it hasn't been fixed its been 4 years

[@owenklein1917]

Not just DC Charlotte, Dallas, a lot of Appalachia, west Chicago and many more locations have that weird green ground as well

[@BigSleepyOx]

Great vid! AVSim brought me here. lol

[@IslandSimPilot]

:)

[@beescan22]

Thanks for the time and effort you have put in to let us know how it all works and what we can expect in 2024. Greatly informative!

[@IslandSimPilot]

You’re quite welcome, thanks for watching!

[@mesillahills]

Lidar photogrammetry has been around forever. It is all about cost. Google chose corner identification as have others. But is the end in will be about how much you want to spend. For a variety of reasons lidar usage keeps getting better all the time. That could be a factor.

[@tvrubenjo4010]

Hope that this is the end of melted buildings. Current photogrammetry is so bad. I swear that they had all the bells and whistles in the first open beta back in 2019. After that the just kept downscaling the sim (for Xbox). Now they selling it under the 2024 flag. The sim was never the same

[@Mr_Realworld]

Totally agree it all looked better when released. I’m sure the XBox $$$ sales drove the decision to screw the PC users. Hope 2024 addresses that.

[@MsTheCops]

Thank you Brother ....great explanation. The melting buildings is why I don't use telementry. I'm looking forward to it.

[@IslandSimPilot]

You’re quite welcome, thanks so much for watching and for reaching out!

[@manuelc.3286]

Wow!!!!

[@johnwicks4936]

I just want to know if the non-handcrafted buildings in cities are still going to look all melted at low altitude in MSFS24? Will cars still drive under bridges and will some roads still look green?

[@IslandSimPilot]

Nah, buildings are going to look much better. No more melting.

[@Mr_Realworld]

@@IslandSimPilotif they can fix the buildings, hopefully they can fix the bridges, cranes, billboards, smokestacks, triangle trees, and remove the boulders from the roads. 😂

[@johnwicks4936]

@@IslandSimPilot I flew over the new Washington scenery and it was light years better than Toronto. Toronto Island airport at the Toronto waterfront was part of the premium package. The whole area to this day even with the two Canadian updates looks like a nuclear holocaust..lol.

[@clay2k452]

This is some good info. The thing is Google has already done this. We are just watching Microsoft catch-up.

[@brunogt1982]

Imagine Microsoft implement something similar to google street view in the future Microsoft Flight Simulator, would be mind blowing and change game for ever

[@lurchilurch5507]

Really cool and interesting video, thanks! Did they really confirm that LIDAR will definitely be used for FS2024 at some point?

[@secondskins-nl]

It's not hard to use lidar at all, a lot of countries share their entire country as lidar data. But that still gives you only a blanket over the surface. That works well with mountains but you can't suddenly make that into a nice 3D city since you will only have the height of a surface and color. I'm sure lidar is used in current msfs a lot as well since you need to know the height of things. To get a city you also need the sides of buildings. People complain a lot about current 'melted' buildings but it's mainly since they don't have a clue how much data is needed to be able to reconstruct a building automatically from for example lidar data. If you want a actual detailed buiding in lidar you've to laser scan it all the way from top to bottom and all around. That's a bit a hard thing to do to go through everybody's back yard. And it will also give you a terrible amount of data for every building that needs to be cleaned out. AI will certainly help in cleaning point clouds and cleaning imagery but it's totally unrealistic to suddenly expect perfect shaped buildings. You can on small scale but laser scanning 148.326.000 square km is a bit much (land surface earth). And I'm sure the systems to reconstruct photogrammetry data combined with lidar will get better and there will be new algorithms to reconstruct buildings. Still every building needs to be optimized for game usage. That will never be perfect and while theoretically it could be perfect, no way you can fly nicely over a lidar/point cloud based city with billions of points that will make up all geometry. That's far far ahead future. People who talk about melted buildings should download a point cloud and try to create nice buildings out of it with Blender for example, that will give them an idea about how hard it is to actually get something useful out of it. Like I said, mountains are no issue they stick far above other things. Canyons and cities are a totally different challenge.

[@IslandSimPilot]

Thanks for the answer, @secondskins-nl !!

[@HeliSimmer]

I'm not sure if I agree with the fact that CU9 is a preview since the new scenery technology is not implemented in MSFS2020.

[@IslandSimPilot]

Hey HeliSimmer, thanks for reaching out! I very much enjoyed your interview and subsequent article. I agree generally speaking. Having not yet had the chance to fly in DC since the update, it seems a few things are going on. Some people are having issues with the scenery and seeing things (melted buildings, 2D trees) that almost everyone else is not seeing. Probably scenery conflicting some sort I would guess. I also think it’s possible that the preview images are different than the actual scenery, given the fact that in the images I can clearly see 3D trees, and I’ve had some people saying that in the scenery itself they’re just the standard 2D. Nonetheless it gives us a look at the process. I’ll have to fly it myself and see what I think (my sim bought the farm during the XBox Live outage last week and I had to do a full reinstall, so I’m still dealing with that). In any event thanks for what you do. Great stuff!

[@HeliSimmer]

​@@IslandSimPilot thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed the article. I always like to dive a bit more into the tech side of things whenever possible. The sim is a huge puzzle of amazing technology. There seems to be some issues with some folks. I caught a few that were user errors (people not actually acquiring and installing the update) but some others seem to be conflicts or bugs.

[@IslandSimPilot]

Agreed 100% on both counts.

[@XKR2004]

I was even more impressed with the South Fork of Long Island than with DC. DC is mostly rectilinear buildings. But the intricacies of the homes, gardens, pools, etc. etc. of the .001% of the USA were amazing. Especially in South Hampton. I have been there on vacation in a B&B and that is what they look like down to very small details. As somebody said about DC, however, the superabundance of trees covered up so much of places like East Hampton, that the effort they went through to get the live detail made a lot of it a waste of effort, time and money. Apart from South Hampton and the beaches, it was Sea Of Green, and I don't mean certain flowering plants. You would think they could just back off a parameter or two. I have an addon that thins trees, but currently that makes SU15 a freeze fest and can't use it anymore. Hooray for the scene detail, boo to the trees.

[@tubeloobs]

I think those trees in front of the white house are still 2D

[@budguy21]

So MSFS 2024 is focusing on more graphics instead of flight models and cpu optimization.

[@andrewjamez]

Is the entire world going to be rendered with this technology? or do they need a special data set to do this?

[@IslandSimPilot]

More or less, yes. They can do it from satellite imagery, although planes are better. But it's going to be a huge improvement in a lot of the less-covered areas of the world.

[@mikecoffee100]

WHOOA City update 9 cool. Hopefully I dont have to buy a new computer etc cause right now everything is 99% good.

[@IslandSimPilot]

99% good is good enough for me!

[@mikecoffee100]

@@IslandSimPilot little niggle here and there but I can handle it.

[@thatguy7085]

I have the DC addon

[@evanblakeman8175]

The DC Photogrammetry is kinda bugged for me. If i dont Use The DD DC scenery, then most of the buildings work but all the buildings around the capitol Building are all gone and just flat land. But if i use the DD DC scenery, the buildings are back but tons of other buildings are gone. So its kinda a lose lose situation. also the DC airport being bugged with different colors is annoying to.

[@elpidiomanuelalvarenga4223]

Muy lindo, but it is more than 200 GB to download just for these areas.

[@matsbrandsegg9604]

I switched from 3060 card to a 4070 Ti card. I did it without do a clean install first. Worked okay for a while, but after several driver updates I ran into trouble. I applied your holy grail settings, but I suffered several tearings so I had to downgrade my settings. In the end I suffered CTD’s. I almost gave up! Then I came across a 2 year old video from JayzTwoCents. It’s 18 minutes long. I followed his steps in the video and did a clean install. Now your holy grail settings are butter smooth. OMG, what a difference!! So I recommend all of those who suffers from tearing and stutters to check out this video from JayzsTwoCents. If you only updates GPU drivers and always do the express installation then in the end you will run into trouble.

[@downedaviator]

Link ?

[@matsbrandsegg9604]

@@downedaviator kzbin.info/www/bejne/fGmyfZuLdrV3p5Isi=vYJjTtYZJ5zAUGaC

[@digital_aviator]

Pretty sure you're making an assumption about the rocks and ground cover being back ported to 2020. The new Bing imagery will be, new cities will be, but the new rock stuff likely not.

[@martinhsl68hw]

Good idea for a new activity in 2024 - photogrammetry flights!

[@nathantw]

The real test are going to be palm trees. They don't seem to be able to do that very well.

[@jlunddk]

Great explanation, but you make it sound like the whole world will look like this. As I understand it they have to overfly the whole world to achieve this, and I just can't imagine that happening. It will take years to cover everything, and even with the resources that MS/Asobo, have I can't see this happening. Yes, there will be places where they will use it, just as they use photogrammetry today, but the whole world.....no way.!

[@IslandSimPilot]

Actually the beauty of this is, they can do it from satellite imagery. So yes, in theory, the whole world will look like this. I'm sure it will take time, and a lot of places (Africa in particular) don't have 100% coverage, BUT, we should see a massive improvement in many, many places.

[@jeffgAdventures]

This latest scenery is fantastic for elevation/buildings, trees, etc...but the over saturated green tint to EVERYTHING is awful. Colors make it look like a computer model with a limited pallet. Great potential but flawed release. This was around DC.

[@andyakarudolfhessiansack7936]

They arnt using their new 3d ground modelling yet. The colours will be sorted in time with 2024.

[@williamwidjaja850]

DC is no fly zone

[@IslandSimPilot]

Sorta. There are GA airports within the limits of the SFRA, it's just a major PITA.

[@TheRutlandPilot]

I call BS

[@IslandSimPilot]

All good! You're allowed.