MSI Afterparty - GENG finally win! MVP? EU & NA Worlds adjustments feat. Peter Dun

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Rich

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 95

@RichsWrath 6 ай бұрын

Who was your MVP of MSI?

@hystaronics6342 6 ай бұрын

Lehends

@anzumazaki7798 6 ай бұрын

overall tournament mvp: chovy finals mvp: lehends

@Dardobul 6 ай бұрын

Overall tournament, I'd still probs say ON. single series MVP, canyon (vs blg first time) . Finals series MVP, gthats a toughie. Canyon had some big griefs, but on seemed to grief harder, so I guess like payes didn't shit the bed as hard as I expected?

@hahahobo247 5 ай бұрын

@@anzumazaki7798 exactly what did chovy do the entire tournament to deserve overall MVP lmao, we just saying narratives at this point

@antosqa7343 6 ай бұрын

Impact is probably the best toplaner at understanding lane swaps maybe except for Kiin. How he was absorbing any available xp, getting the most out of dives, helping the map with literally no resources was spectacular. Unfortunately their "korean korean" were actually the ones that let the team down the most

@micahhh310 6 ай бұрын

Always good to listen to Peter, thanks lads

@jarjar2364 6 ай бұрын

Geng does post some comms for their behind the scenes stuff on their KZbin from what I remember

@ramilgarifullin3702 6 ай бұрын

The really important thing about botlanes this MSI is lane swaps. There wasn't any normal lanes in any games of the finals. They skipped the first few levels of laning phase where a lot of control of the lane is established.

@symmetryox7184 6 ай бұрын

Can you guys dedicate an episode to a blueprint on how western teams can ever compete with the top eastern teams at the highest level without having the high skill server pedigree?

@jeff230394 6 ай бұрын

Yea but it would be 5 seconds. Hello no it can't. Good bye

@dragonplayz6606 6 ай бұрын

Didnt asia look trash, idk no hands and clumsy

@davienssprime123 6 ай бұрын

Lets listen to the Knight Lawyers try to make it sound like Bin was the reason they lost and not Knight being absolutely useless.

@Keire157 6 ай бұрын

Bin was the best player by quite some margin, he did lose them the game cause he made a balanced situation that knight had made, good and Bad (knight missplayed) totally unwinnable, his death gave up baron drake and the possibility of game win, knights death gave up position on baron / drake which ever one gengs 3 man went too.

@davienssprime123 6 ай бұрын

this geng has basically equalized what last year's JDG did. They also seem to be able to play multiple styles more than what JDG could? How can you still say JDG was better.

@Keire157 6 ай бұрын

Im not sure I do, but the way they won from deficits and from run gave the impression any game at any time could be won, They also had the most insane performance vs the other elite of the lpl which for me had more top teams than lck that year and was harder, tho I believe lck was better than lpl this year. Also think the individual skill level on jdg was higher and as such you at times got to see a larger breadth of execution from all its members. These arent my opinion but those that ibe heard talk as such.

@DEVILONBOTHSHOULDERS 6 ай бұрын

they haven’t won summer and made a worlds semifinal yet

@DEVILONBOTHSHOULDERS 6 ай бұрын

they haven’t won summer and made a worlds semifinal yet

@jackthomas3483 6 ай бұрын

@@Keire157what variety did JDG show us? They basically only played for teamfights and had cookie cutter comps. They literally would not survive in the current meta. We saw how shaky they were in Spring ‘23. 369 cannot play Rumble or TF like Kiin. Knight doesn’t have the breadth of Chovy, at least not effectively. Ruler doesn’t play poke style well and literally hasn’t for his whole career. Even players like Kanavi or Knight who CAN play other styles stuck to a singular style all year. That JDG could not imagine executing on jungle carry comps like how Canyon did lmao.

@potheadesens8725 6 ай бұрын

@@Keire157jdg were "protect the general comp" merchants cuz that's the only way Ruler knows how to play since his SSG days

@esoncabalde5442 6 ай бұрын

I like the observations of @keire157 regarding how Canyon and GEN bot lane changed their MO. From scaling to acitivating bot lane. I'm curious to hear if @Keire157 thinks that this is specifically towards BLG onwards or GEN could have done it to another team? If that's the case then coach Kim really is an upgrade.

@Keire157 6 ай бұрын

really hard too say, doubt they carry on doing this vs LCK cause scaling chovy is the highest % win vs the field there while scaling the botlane up vs blg tes etc looked very effective however this is all tentative in the upgrade in play from peyz and lahends, there play in lck died not justify the attention ie finals apehelios game zeri game.

@arch2717 6 ай бұрын

GenG from 2022-23 had Peanut do all the in-game shotcalling. Peanut hasn’t had a single good international showing since 2018. The reason GenG had great macro domestically but then always looked lost at internationals is because they relied on the biggest international choker for their shotcalling.

@potheadesens8725 6 ай бұрын

T1 vs G2 second series odds on betting sites was 65:35 where do they get this g2 were favorites from lmao😂😂😂

@SwayNoir 6 ай бұрын

58:35 So weird to see Peter Dunn finding it absolutely comical that Chovy is now the voice that is trying to calm down the team when things go wrong in Gen.G. Whats so funny? Why is it hard to believe? We have known for years that Peanut was the shotcaller on Gen.G and he was always shown in comms to be the one who tells them things are okay when its going bad. Now he's gone and Gen.G needed new shotcalling. We now know that the main shotcalling is coming from Lehends and Chovy and Chovy has said that he is really trying to step up and be more vocal now, when in the past he doesn't speak very much. Whats hard to believe about that? When people are given new leadership roles, they rise to the occasion. Idk, just sounded like a moment where I clearly missed the joke or something.

@jarjar2364 6 ай бұрын

I don't kknow why he finds that comical and that canyon is the one who does it when canyon was also shown to be a quiet player and his damwon teams the last 2 years would fall apart in late game scenarios, its pretty weird. Also from the geng behind the scenes stuff and the comms ive listened to this year there have been multiple times chovy says to play aggressive in game 5 scenarios as everyone is nervous and to reset and not linger on losing moments.

@DoggyP00 6 ай бұрын

maybe you just don't speak english very well...

@voyager1175 6 ай бұрын

Here is what people are not willing to accept about BB He would be acceptable as a G2 player if he stick to tanks or extreme one sided matchups like Yasuo vs TF The moment he picks something like Jax Fiora Akali etc agaisnt players of Zeus caliber (Zeus was clearly worse than both Kiin and Bin btw) the game becomes unplayable for his team. He hard loses lane. And because he has so much ego for some unknown reason he just goes to farm side lane. People say he was ganked when the only reason he was ganked is because he got omega destroyed in lane staying with half hp under turret with 3 waves crashing Today Bin beat the best Rumble in the world with Jax in lane. BB played against a worse Rumble with Jax started the game 2 kills ahead and lost it in a way that a bronze would lose to challenger. It is normal that Rumble beats Jax in lane. It is not normal Rumble fists Jax the way he did 2 kills down whatever lane state is. It is unbelievable a Jax can play that badly into Camille. And he even benefitted from lane swap starting lane a full level up. This matchup is normally unplayable for Camille Same happened against Mad Lions in final. BB tries to play Akali. The worst akali performance of universe which made G2 lose. People claim G2 happy gamed. When in fact they would lose the series 3-0 if BB played 3 Akali games.

@nupnup3170 6 ай бұрын

Thank God Keire is okay, it must've been hard for him seeing Chovy outshined Knight.

@Keire157 6 ай бұрын

I litreally said chovys better from like the start of spring all they way through msi, I love chovy he's basically a dota carry in lol

@jeff230394 6 ай бұрын

@Keire157 we see through your tears. What a day for rain, indeed.

@riseagainstthemachine6079 6 ай бұрын

I think the real sad thing for Keire is, that both Knight and Chovy played under their usual level in these finals.

@MrDespisedIcon 6 ай бұрын

@@Keire157lil bro trying to save face after him and his bestie Thorin got +100 social credit by LPL to promote Knight only for him to get gapped last worlds by Faker and now this MSI by Chovy 🤣

@treynguyen1236 6 ай бұрын

@@MrDespisedIcon you should have just kept it to Chovy. You know how many times faker got solo killed by other mid laners this MSI?

@crymoreyes 6 ай бұрын

And this is exactly why 2 years ago people think their MSI win was fraudulent when RNG got to play from their practice rooms instead of on stage when T1 had to play infront of all the fans. 18:50

@MrDespisedIcon 6 ай бұрын

Any tournament where one team is allowed to play from home, with no referee’s, no equipment restrictions and while forcing their opponents to play on artificial ping is extremely fraudulent and unsporting.

@harsimransingh8509 5 ай бұрын

They will never accept it.

@stringerbell69 6 ай бұрын

Great guest! looking forward to this

@j4yto 6 ай бұрын

GenG made mistakes as well and overcame them. you can't just say if knight didn't make 2 mistakes they would have won. absolute hater mentality, geng beat them 6-2 this msi, they are the better team

@harsimransingh8509 5 ай бұрын

Dont bother trying to explain. This was also the reasoning as to why t1 shouldve lost every series in worlds playoffs too. Aparently alistair made a mistake and lost jdg the series vs t1, otherwise jdg wouldve won lol.

@Dardobul 6 ай бұрын

Real interesting changes in the new split too - I think the burn items are still massively overpowered, even post hotfix. For context, the fated ashes, a 900g component, burns for 5 hp per second. against targets with 1000 hp or less, congrats you just got a liandries passive for 900g. Also, it STACKS with both liandries and blackfire torch. Absolutely disgusting. Only counter ive seen to it is force of nature, because each tick gives a stack towards the massive chunk of ms and mr.

@turnermarius4471 6 ай бұрын

Blitz Lehends so clean.

@voyager1175 6 ай бұрын

BB has a lot of Turkish-German fanboys. Hans was getting hard flamed to cover for a non-existent top lane for all 3 games. Same pattern happens in every international tournament.

@calumm3303 6 ай бұрын

I like how Keire explains himself but I think knight was not top 2 mids this tournament. Caps had the tournament of his life but his team wasn't there vs t1

@Keire157 6 ай бұрын

Issue with caps is we never seen him vs chovy and geng and while knight didn't have great games his tail game ahri games vs geng and jayce games where so outrageously good that I have him over caps. Was IMO overall a better laner, if caps was on a different team ie t1 we mb could have seen more and I would have agreed, but knight looked worse in series caps didn't even get to play so its hard to count against him.

@Jonathan02937 6 ай бұрын

Nothing like rushing home to see the game. Only to open youtube spoil it in their title. Thanks.

@Pyrrha_Nikos 6 ай бұрын

I would choose 2 MSI over 1 Worlds, but I agree with the narrative argument that Worlds means more, but overall I WISH Riot swapped the formats for MSI and Worlds, so MSI is the less competitive, more surprise driven tournament, and Worlds with the prestige it already has, was the objectively better tournament that actually crowns the best team as the winner. As much as I cheered for the DRX 2022 run, I don't want to see that be a common thing, and the current Worlds format lends itself much more towards it

@stanaklol 6 ай бұрын

who is keire

@aerrowqueing 6 ай бұрын

Regarding the point that Chovy is a bit boring as a player, because he is that efficient and methodical: My favourite player of all time is Froggen, so you can imagine how great it feels to see the (potentially) best player of all-time just do exactly what Froggen figured out 12 years ago: If you pick a scaling mid lane champ and farm better than the enemy midlaner, you can carry games. Froggen fans stay winning

@hahahobo247 5 ай бұрын

assuming the enemy mid doesn't capitalize on ur teams mistakes and make plays to win them the game chovy's entire playstyle only works cuz he's surrounded by super teams year after year that don't make mistakes, all of GenG are the most boring team for years cuz they sit back and make no mistakes or plays and then chovy has an item or level lead and games over froggen didn't have that luxury, it's why this playstyle is overrated, there is no authority, no ability to take the game and swing it in ur hands when ur team doesn't just sit back (which is exactly what happened to GenG at every worlds and chovy did nothing)

@aerrowqueing 5 ай бұрын

@@hahahobo247 Fair criticism. Considering Chovy is the best player of all time and Froggen was the best player in the world for a while, I am fine with them taking a boring and overrated playstyle, considering both are amazing and their teams are very successful

@hahahobo247 5 ай бұрын

@@aerrowqueing problem is it isn't just boring, the word overrated does a lot of the heavy lifting, they fundamentally aren't great players in their own era who can win without mega super teams to cater to their style, reminds me of how showmaker and canyon would fuck around in the LCK every split and still mega show up internationally because they are fundamentally better players then chovy, while chovy would be exposed in fact, same thing happened this MSI, no corki/asol for him to farm away and team to play safe till? he is missing yone ults, getting caught, nothing of note happening in mid really wonder how Knight will be remembered, because he does have that ability that chovy does not, for now I'd say ppl will think of him as a top 4-7 mid along with chovy like 5A/B, but I would say a notch higher? actually this makes me realize how bdd destroyed his own legacy, but at least showmaker will be remembered as top 2, that is for sure, korean mids are so mega man

@aerrowqueing 5 ай бұрын

@@hahahobo247 I really want to engage with your arguments, but implying the first Yone game wasn't just amazingly played by Chovy and he wasn't overall the best player this tournament (with a somewhat muted performance in the finals)...I just can't.

@hahahobo247 5 ай бұрын

@@aerrowqueing so many things wrong with this comment, where to begin 1st, it doesn't seem like you want to engage because you want this to be a chovy glaze session or are too low elo to fundamentally understand the game I have watched every game of his career, including his peak in 2020 summer to 2021, I have played against him in soloq multiple times during KR trips and some in NA, to imply this Chovy at MSI was the best player and had an amazing yone game means u don't appreciate his skill watch first 7 mins of his lane, botched.. count his Q3s hit and missed that game... count his ultimates hit and missed that game... and these are just easy things to notice what exactly did chovy even do this tournament? not sure u even understand how geng won their series... his most impactful things were corki games + freeing up bans cuz of Asol/Corki, thats it last, i don't expect players below 800LP to get this esp if they are not mid mains, or they are just fanboys, but the best players this tournament were easily the top laner of BLG and ADC of T1, from the positions they were in to willfully bringing games to the edge, comparatively chovy was prob the 2nd or 3rd best player on his team, which shouldnt be surprising since he did pre much nothing but pick Asol/Corki/Azir all split for free wins, moment those are banned games are usually in the other players hands, this is also true for faker/knight, and tbh many elite mids at this point, they tunnel on 2-3 champs and look unpracticed when those get banned (taliyah/ahri for knight, Ori/Azir for faker) not sure why I am giving such high level analysis to someone who is likely a gold support main or something lol but anyway

@zachboost6137 6 ай бұрын

RIP Nymaera 😭

@park3275 6 ай бұрын

We need someone to ask Xiaohu that first would you rather😂

@voyager1175 6 ай бұрын

G2 for a team that stick together for 2 years (actually 3 for BB coaching staff and Caps. Miky/Hans also played together before) Never learns from their mistakes. I wrote my criticism about BB in carries another comment but why would you try to play things like Belveth Jax Khazix when you repeatedly saw they fail. G2 lost against NRG in game 1 and then mental boomed. Guess what G2 players had in game 1 in that draft? BB in Jax and Yike in Belveth. Contractz and Dhokla ran away with the game. Dhokla legit destroyed BB and Yike 1 v 2 in lane. Fast forward game 5 against T1. What do you pick to jungle? Belveth. Fast forward this series against T1. You pick Jax twice. As long as EU repeats the same mistakes and just give an excuse as "it was a bad day" "we were sick" "mental boom". It is never gonna get better. This is just sad for the performance Caps showed because even Chovy and Knight were pretty underwhelming in finals compared to what Caps show. Especially Knight had worst series of his life and that has nothing to do with Chovy. He was losing his mind engaging a TP'ed minion missing 500 Ori ults even though A Camille was delivering the ball etc etc These guys are riding the back of Caps who was the best/2nd best performing mid by far in this tournament and praising their systems. Guess what? Same coach Dylan with same top lane BrokenBlade was last place in LEC before joining Caps. It is easy to look good when your midlaner can 1 v 3 the whole game and still is more effective than enemy mid. Once Caps can't roflstomp 1 v 3 anymore rest of the cast gets exposed. Of course everybody else looks good when Caps is legit beating Tian Meiko and Creme playing 1 v 3 mid. That BB TF winning game 2 should be illegal with how freaking bad he was in laning phase. Caps TPs bot saves his bot lane and allows Kogmaw to snowball.5 minutes ahead he is camped yet ahead in lane. Considering how hard Caps was bullying Faker in lane that T1 series was awful from rest of the players. Oner legit had to be ready rushing to mid because LB always had kill pressure against Ori in game 1. These are things that doesn't reflect to stats

@Azrael_Xx_ 6 ай бұрын

Kinda agree BUT, have to play and practise in a region where you have no real competition just does not help.

@scobbydump1255 6 ай бұрын

Who doesn't like Peter Dumb, always brings a smile to proverbial face

@Rayon811 6 ай бұрын

wtf nate diaz is playing for blg?

@LordKeram 6 ай бұрын

@keire157 YES finally someone mentioned that in the crucial game 3 vs JDG. Faker couldn't even do the Azir shuffle if it wasn't for Oner's insane play at drake.

@dlam18 6 ай бұрын

Who is Ben?

@appleinator8065 6 ай бұрын

Ben... Is glory?

@DEVILONBOTHSHOULDERS 6 ай бұрын

former world elite and afreeca freecs support player glad to clear this up!

@zobtastik 6 ай бұрын

Im really suprised from the underperformance of 369, he looked awful as well as Creame was really suprised by his performances to. I was most immpressed by Chovys Corki that shit was insane

@DEVILONBOTHSHOULDERS 6 ай бұрын

chovy corki is functionally impossible to win versus he gets so much more out of every single movement and input

@gameplayerbr4962 6 ай бұрын

Ffs I like Keire but he's such a Knight apologist, it was so annoying. Knight couldn't hit a single good Neeko ult, a single good Orianna ult. Even when he was playing well on Jayce he mistimed Chovy's TP, combo'd the teleporting minion and died like a bot which gave GEN the soul. He played like garbage, maybe if he didn't BLG would have won.

@Keire157 6 ай бұрын

I litreally addressed all that on the show and said its knights worse series mechanically I've ever seen, but the trist play (he plays it like ass) its bin that losses them that sequence not Knight as knight doesn't have tp and will be alive to stagger either objective. I gave a counter argument to PDs on game 2 cause that game was already in the abyss and knight bin brought it back so to say he intd to lose when the objective IMO didn't look as clear cut. Think he had a rough finals can add that to the list of bad bo5s I posted on twitter.

@1RubberDucky 6 ай бұрын

What is with all these guys (including Monte and Thorin) trying to force narrative of MSI to have substantial more meaning compared Worlds. How important somehting is decided before the event. I believe these players rather have 1 worlds over 3 MSI wins especially when its there first. Yes these MSI have more meaning then previous but still no where near a first Worlds win.

@adrianchavez4314 6 ай бұрын

It's due to the format. If you watch their content, they prefer Double Elim and say that it's much more of a better test to find the best team at the tournament. Are you a regular viewer? Anyways, that's their take.

@1RubberDucky 6 ай бұрын

@@adrianchavez4314 This narrative where a format decides the achievement level for sport/competition is nonsense. I like to see them go explain to all the soccer/football players and analyst how World Cup isn''t holy grail for those athletes because of the format. Same thing with Track/Swimming athletes with Olympics over there World Championships they compete in every year. The prestige of an event is decided by value the players and fans put on the event before it happens not by some BS format narrative. You can tell Peter Dun immediately say how Worlds is signicantly more important and then shy away from it. He knows he sacrifice it all for single Worlds win.

@Keire157 6 ай бұрын

@@1RubberDucky worlds is more prestigious no doubt. MSI is a better tournament. Also loads of format changes have happened over the year in the world cup, due to it being the prestige event ie goal ratio compared to goal difference. Yellow card red card build up etc.

@adrianchavez4314 6 ай бұрын

@@1RubberDucky Monte and Thorin hate the World Cup format, so I wouldn't use that one as an example to counter their argument. I can't remember off the top of my head, but I'm sure you can find it if you watch some of their clips or videos talking about the WC format. Also, keep in mind that formats for sports don't translate over well to LoL, or vice versa, due to the fact that athletes physically hit the wall and need downtime to recover.

@1RubberDucky 6 ай бұрын

@@Keire157 Yes its a great tournament and we love the format. There needs to be a separation of the love of the format and how important an achievement is. These guys are trying to push this narrative because it is what they want it to be. Prestige of a winning the title is not set by them but by the players and fans that support it. Level of pressure put on the players is set before the start the tournament bc they understand how important that moment is. They need to stop with this motive to try to brainwash the fans.