#MT41

[@learningturningmetal]

*** READ ME UPDATE *** Follow Bob's advice I bought some graphogen paste to help run in the piston rings. If its good enough for Rolls Royce and Lamborghini rebuilds, then it's good enough for this little engine. I used it to help run in the rings, powered by the lathe. I ran for 20 mins at 300 rpm. Then added oil via the oiler hole and ran for 15 mins at 300 rpm. Added more oil and ran again for 15 mins. Then I used more graphogen paste and repeated the previous steps. The engine now runs under its own power! Many thanks for the advice from Bob! I'm really pleased that my home made CI rings now work. Andrew

[@johnmcclain3887]

Andrew, I've used red rouge to seat rings in a small engine before. Just a dab on the rings, and running it around ten or fifteen minutes will generally do the trick. That is a very nice little engine, it sounds very nice, I've always been torn between the sound of hit or miss, and simply having a smooth, regular running engine. Putting a moderate load on it can be used to regulate it's speed, without the miss, and keep a steady rpm. Thanks for showing this!

[@daveswain8295]

Good job there Andrew pleased for you that you got it run on your CI rings. It seems quite normal to have tinker a little with a new engine. By making the piston with the viton o-ring and getting it running you proved that the valve timing, ignition timing, fuel supply, fuel mixture, valve leakage/compression were all OK. A good bit of trouble shooting. Cheers, Dave.

[@learningturningmetal]

Thanks Dave. Yeah, I think the viton o-ring was a good plan B! I've just finished the final assembly and made a few changes. Video coming soon! Cheers Andrew

[@revgro]

Another nice video. Back in the 1970's, I used to play around with hotrods and I remember how much of a difference it made when the points had a lot of contact area. I noticed at time 3:30 that the contact area for your points is very small (the hacksaw blade slopes down). In case there are future issues, you might add a bend to the blade to make it sit flat on the bolt. Thanks for the video.

[@learningturningmetal]

Thanks for the advice. I'm amazed those points even worked, cos I thought it would be the weakest part of the engine. I've purchased some cheap VW points so I might try to fit those at some point. Steve N commented that he had noticed a spark between the valve body and the main body - at around 14:10. I can see it too, but it doesn't make sense to me. I used a paper gasket between the parts, held with stainless steel bolts. Very odd! Cheers Andrew

[@revgro]

@@learningturningmetal Thanks for the response. At 14:10, that might have been a backfire.

[@mikehart6708]

Very nice job! So glad you were able to get the cast iron rings to seat and function properly. I hope to build and engine one day with homemade cast iron rings and it was inspiring to me to see you get yours to work. Congrats!

[@learningturningmetal]

Thanks Mike. It wasn't as daunting as I first imagined. I hope yours turn out good too. Cheers Andrew

[@stevebosun7410]

Hi Andrew another vote for Mr Crispin's sortie into making cast iron piston rings.

[@learningturningmetal]

Hi Steve - Thanks for the suggestion - but I've already been there and done that. Earl very kindly purchased copies of the articles and posted them to me from the USA. There are several other methods documented by engineers and I think I have got most of them in my piston ring making folder. Needless to say, some of the advice is occasionally contradictory. When I made the piston rings I was convinced that they were a good fit, with no light leakage on the sides. Earl suggests trying to run them in, but I struggled to get my lathe to drive the engine. Maybe the lack of running in was my downfall. Cheers Andrew

[@Toolsaddo]

So good when it all comes together. Seems like yesterday when you started this one.

[@learningturningmetal]

Cheers Brian! Collaborating with Earl in the USA certainly helped. Also having made the Farm Boy, my model engineering skills and confidence has improved. All the best. Andrew

[@Machine_NZ]

Hi Andrew, will be interesting to see the difference once the rings are bedded in. Looking forward to the paint job also. Regards Kevin

[@learningturningmetal]

Hi Kevin - I'll revisit the CI rings to see if I can get them to perform satisfactorily. All the best. Andrew

[@jameschaffe694]

Well done Andrew! Just to think both of my engines have NO piston rings at all! Cast iron piston polished in to less than half a thou of bore size 👌

[@learningturningmetal]

Wow James - that is very impressive. Your engines run really sweet too! All the best. Andrew

[@howardosborne8647]

@@learningturningmetal A lot of the old school model aero engines had no piston rings of any form. They relied on precision fit and oil for compression seal.

[@learningturningmetal]

@@howardosborne8647 Impressive!

[@craigbartholomew94]

Well done Andrew another success.

[@learningturningmetal]

Cheers Craig!

[@TheKnacklersWorkshop]

Hello Andrew, Congratulations on the first run... Looking forward to watching the final video when you given the engine a lick of paint and applied some spit and polish to all... Take care. Paul,,

[@learningturningmetal]

Thanks Paul - yeah a little more work needed and I think I might revisit the CI rings. Cheers Andrew

[@MattysWorkshop]

Gday Andrew, lovely to see the engine running and all the effort you have put into this has paid off, I think once you’ve applied a little more of your magic it will run like the farm boy, I’ve really enjoyed this build mate and I hope you do have a go at a twin cylinder next, Cheers

[@learningturningmetal]

Thanks Matty - I think I will revisit the CI rings because I need to understand what went wrong - otherwise a v-twin will be a pipe dream! Glad you enjoyed the series. Cheers Andrew

[@simonbirt6121]

Well done Andrew, looks promising.

[@learningturningmetal]

Thanks Simon - your spark plug seems to perform very well. Cheers Andrew

[@taranson3057]

Awesome job Andrew, I am still working on my hit n miss engine. I have been having a few issues and I am taking my time. I may have to binge watch your videos again 😀

[@learningturningmetal]

Thanks mate! These certainly aren't short projects and there are undoubtedly challenges along the way. There are lots of variables preventing these little engines from running - ignition, compression, fuel, timing..... I wonder if anyone has ever made one and got it to run first time? The good thing is that it's relatively easy to re-make components if you mess up. Good luck! Andrew

[@Mister_G]

Excellent result - well done!

[@learningturningmetal]

Thanks mate!👍

[@RustyInventions-wz6ir]

Wow. Great job. Beautiful engine

[@learningturningmetal]

Thanks Rusty 👍

[@richardboucher6904]

Well Saturday afternoon, a bit beyond coffee time but this is the video I have been waiting for. Congratulations for another successful build Andrew. Lots of great hints as to how to find the compression leak and get my Duclos engine running. I really like the adapter idea for using compressed air for finding the compression leaks and seeing if it will run on compressed air. It might also be the way to run in the cast iron piston rings. Be careful though if you remember back when I said I lost compression when I took my engine apart to paint it.

[@learningturningmetal]

Thanks Dick. Yeah there is always that danger that it will refuse to run after I've taken it apart. Using compressed air to run-in the CI rings, seems like a good idea. I tried it but after a while the engine stopped rotating. I think that it's due to pressure still being pushed into the engine while on the compression stroke. The inertia of the flywheels helps to overcome this but the compressor eventually wins. Increasing the compressor pressure doesn't overcome the problem either. I think I will try to make a rig to try running them in. I don't like being defeated. Bob has suggested graphogen paste for running-in - so I will try that at the same time. I hope you get some time to get your little Duclos running. All the best. Andrew

[@JohnnySteam]

Fantastic to see it running. Congratulations. I look forward to the next showing with the governor working. Shame about the piston rings, however I've no doubt you'll crack then next time around. Great videos, all of them. Thank you.

[@learningturningmetal]

Thanks Johnny. When I made the rings I thought I'd nailed it - but something isn't quite right. Maybe I should have spent more time setting up a rig to run them in. I might give it a try at some point. Cheers Andrew

[@JohnnySteam]

@@learningturningmetal You will solve it I am sure.

[@abbottart2000]

CONGRATULATIONS !! You have a runner. I hope mine works as well as yours.

[@learningturningmetal]

Hi Earl - with your determination and skill I'm sure you will get yours running with the cast iron rings. Looking forward to seeing it! I might try to set up a running-in jig to see if I can get my CI rings to work. All the best. Andrew

[@stevenaegele5228]

On the last run at around 14:10 or so I see a spark Between the carburetor and the cylinder block near where the mounting bolt goes through. Possibly a ground issue? Looking good Andrew!

[@learningturningmetal]

Blimey Steve - well spotted! I wonder what is going on there? It doesn't make any sense to me. I will have to get the the bottom of that. Cheers Andrew

[@nikhilbhale79]

Another great project. Piston rings will turn a little at each stroke while engine is running, so it does not do much to line the ring gap. At least they do in the big marine engines that I work on.

[@learningturningmetal]

Thanks mate - and thanks for the info regarding the ring cap - very interesting. Cheers Andrew

[@Stefan_Boerjesson]

Thanks for this honest but still entertaining video. What a fight... Finally You could say as Dr Frankenstien in the film: "It's alive". Maybe You should make a silenser... Joking! Well done Andrew!

[@learningturningmetal]

Ha ha - Thanks Stefan!

[@gwheyduke]

It has been my experience that CI rings take a while to "seat" or run in. Only one of my engines has had a lot of compression when first assembled. The compression improves with run time. 40 psi should be plenty. I do see the spark in the gap between the cylinder block and the intake body. A very skilled engine builder once said "most carburetor problems can be traced to a fault in the ignition." I was surprised that the ignition worked so well without tungsten for points! I have purchased point sets from the auto parts store and robbed the points off of them for my engines. Best of luck, very nice work on that engine.

[@learningturningmetal]

Hi - many thanks for the advice. I see you watched my follow up video too. I got there in the end. Cheers Andrew

[@robertoswalt319]

One thing you might loon into with rhe cast iron rings is the gap between the ring and the groove. I had a string trimmer that I changed the cylinder assy. on and the ring was too tight in the slot causing a loss of compression.

[@learningturningmetal]

Hi Robert - thanks for the advice - a great idea. I will check it out. Cheers Andrew

[@OL6162.]

Nice job Andrew. Still a few settings and this engine will run like a Swiss clock. 👍👍👍👍👍

[@learningturningmetal]

Thanks mate! Yeah a bit of tweaking here and there needed. Cheers Andrew

[@jonsworkshop]

Hi Andrew, great progress and fantastic to see it running. Having followed this build from the start, I have every faith in your rings, I just reckon they need a couple of hours running with some very fine compound. I would clean everything down, blue the rings up and see what that tells you, very slight ovality is my guess which running in should cure. You now have your jury rigged compressor to do the hard work for you (save your finger end) lol. Nothing to lose trying and I want to see the V twin build lol. Cheers, Jon

[@learningturningmetal]

Thanks Jon. I think I will try to make a rig to try running them in. I don't like being defeated. Bob has suggested graphogen paste for running-in - so I will try that at the same time. Cheers Andrew

[@CraigLYoung]

Thanks for sharing and congradulations!

[@learningturningmetal]

Cheers Craig!

[@donmittlestaedt1117]

Continue your good work. I like it.

[@learningturningmetal]

Cheers Don!

[@timjoinson7232]

Such a shame that the cast iron rings are not working for you after all the effort to make them. The engine sounds powerful when it is running. The ignition system seems to be working really well. I am guessing you will have to make slightly stronger springs for the governor. A few more tweaks and it will run very sweetly I am sure. Enjoyed the video.

[@learningturningmetal]

Thanks Tim. A bit disappointing regarding the CI rings. I think I will revisit them. Yeah stronger springs needed for the governor. I can't believe those home made points work! All the best. Andrew

[@gb_engineer]

Great job Andrew, Im sure you will get it running as you want soon, Im experimenting with CI rings on the Farmboy, but cant get it to run at all so reverted back to the Viton O ring which works and runs perfectly - so i am not sure what is going on, from my conclusion the Farmboy looses compression loosing compression back past the rings and out as you have experienced which i guess is the issue. I will keep trying but ready to move on to the next project now.

[@learningturningmetal]

Hi Andy - I'm going to try to run them in using a jig. Bob suggests using some graphogen paste - so I will give that a try. When I made the rings I did a light test and they looked spot on, so I will persevere. If I find the answer I will let you know. Cheers Andrew

[@bobdown1268]

Iron piston rings will take a bit of time to bed in and seal the way they should. A bit of blow-by is to be expected with new rings/ cylinder. It might be worth trying building up the piston, rings and cylinder with a running in compound? I have used graphogen paste with good results in the past.

[@learningturningmetal]

Hi Bob - many thanks for the advice. I think I should have spent more time trying to set up a running in rig. I've just ordered some graphogen paste - so I will give it a try. Cheers Andrew

[@learningturningmetal]

Hi Bob. The graphogen paste arrived! I used it to help running in the rings, powered by the lathe. I ran for 20 mins at 300 rpm. Then added oil via the oiler hole and ran for 15 mins at 300 rpm. Added more oil and ran again for 15 mins. Then I used more graphogen paste and repeated the previous steps. The engine now runs under its own power! Many thanks for the advice. I'm really pleased that my home made CI rings work. All the best. Andrew

[@mrc1539]

So close , I don’t understand why the cast iron rings don’t work . Could it be a clearance issue , or maybe the cast iron you used is not soft enough ? I’m looking forward to seeing what you find out. It just seems that they should work. Great job on the build !

[@learningturningmetal]

Thanks mate! I think I might revisit the CI rings to see if I can run them in using a rig of some sort. Bob has suggested graphogen paste for running-in - so I will try that at the same time. Cheers Andrew

[@coilmotorworks]

Rings have a gap and will always leak, if gapped properly and especially when cold. Does the engine you showed holding compression have a ring or rubber o-ring? Your exhaust opening might be a little late in my opinion. Running timing should be before top dead center. The engine will sound like it is laboring if running timing is at or just after top dead center.

[@learningturningmetal]

Hi - thanks for the info. See Part 15 where I iron out the bugs! Cheers Andrew

[@hotbulb4537]

Hej very good made engine Iam enjoyed see you build your projects Timing for ignition is little bit late. Almost five degrees before tdc is almost good. But thanks for entertaining videos. Regards Micke from Sweden

[@learningturningmetal]

Thanks for the advice Micke - I will experiment on the final build. Glad you find the vids entertaining. Cheers Andrew

[@howardosborne8647]

To bed those iron rings to the bore you want to use fine grade 'Timesaver' lapping compound or toothpaste. Neither of these are the type of abrasive that will embed in the metal.

[@learningturningmetal]

Hi Howard - many thanks for the tip. I think I will revisit them and try to make a rig to run them in. I don't like being defeated. Bob has suggested graphogen paste for running-in - I've just ordered some so I will try that at the same time. All the best. Andrew

[@anythingoldmechanical]

Try putting a drop of thick oil in the cylinder to raise the compression. Its a bit messy exhaust wise, gut should help in bedding in the piston rings.

[@learningturningmetal]

Hi Gary Thanks for the tip. Graphogen paste worked really well at running the rings in. Cheers Andrew

[@alanthatcher9543]

hi Andrew, try making the exhaust open before bdc. alan

[@davidkepley4396]

Right Alan, I set the exhaust valve timing at 25 degrees +/- before BDC and just over TDC to close on the intake stroke.

[@learningturningmetal]

Hi Alan (and David) - I agree entirely. I think the Farm Boy exhaust opens at around 35 degrees before bdc and closes near tdc. I tried it on this engine but the exhaust valve tends to close a little too early. I guess its down to the profile of the cam - which is to the drawing spec. On final build I think I will try to compromise a look to open it at around 10 degrees before bdc. Thanks for the advice. Cheers Andrew

[@EmmaRitson]

looks like img going back to look at compression. well done though andrew

[@learningturningmetal]

Cheers Emma!

[@mauserkk98]

Well a bit of twerking and it's another cracking job .

[@learningturningmetal]

Thanks Nicholas!

[@lilylodon]

Check out mr crispin for making piston rings, he suggested an article published that goes into the science behind them, he failed first time, then had great success the second time 👍

[@daveticehurst4191]

Andrew has already done that. A viewer in the USA actually purchased the magazines with the article in and sent them to Andrew.

[@learningturningmetal]

Hi - Thanks for the suggestion - but as Dave points out, I've already been there and done that. Earl very kindly purchased copies of the articles and posted them to me from the USA. There are several other methods documented by engineers and I think I have got most of them in my piston ring making folder. Needless to say, some of the advice is occasionally contradictory. When I made the piston rings I was convinced that they were a good fit, with no light leakage on the sides. Earl suggests trying to run them in, but I struggled to get my lathe to drive the engine. Maybe the lack of running in was my downfall. Cheers Andrew

[@sorryimajerk735]

you need to give it some ign timing advance man!!

[@jdmccorful]

Nice work! Enjoyed watching.

[@learningturningmetal]

Thanks John!