MTA GLOBAL BUS SEARCH: NYC British Leyland Double Deckers of 1976 [History of Buses]

Note: Many of the images in this video are from: www.nycsubway.org/wiki/Bus_Ph...
In 1976, New York received 8 Leyland Atlantean double decker buses as a two-year experiment for use on Fifth Avenue and Broadway in Manhattan.
While the buses were well-liked by the public, no further purchases of double deckers were made.
In this video, we review a New York Times article from September 15th, 1976, that describes the debut of these buses and the public's reaction.
Why was this bus called a Male Chauvanist's bus? Watch the video to find out!
#buses #doubledeckerexpress #newyorkcity #buses

[@jaykay4367]

I just discovered your channel. Thank you for the memories. I remember riding one as a kid.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

I'm really glad you liked the video! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

[@alexhajnal107]

I have a very early memory of riding one of these with my mother on 5th Avenue by Central Park. She presented it to me as a novelty which it certainly was. Nowadays there are quite a few double-deckers in NYC (just in the city, i.e. Manhattan) but they're all tourist buses. Megabus, etc. also run them inter-city but that doesn't really count.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thank you for watching and for your comment! Nice to hear your memory of riding this unique bus...and yes, it's somewhat unfortunate that the only double-deckers are for tourists.

[@GlennBrown-il3fx]

I hope you do a story of the demise of the double decker by Fifth Avenue Coach. It is a fascinating story that let to change in the modern transit bus. During the Great Depression FACCO wanted to reduce costs, particularly labor costs. It decided to eliminate ticket conductors from double deckers. It worked with GM to develop the modern one crew double decker-the Queen Mary of 1936. After a few years of operation, it was concluded that it did not really work as built. In 1940 FACCO worked with GM to design and build a super single decker that could replace the double decker-the TD-55 or TDH 5501. WW II held up further development, but it finally went into production the modem single decker high capacity transit bus. It was capable of not only replacing double deckers but streetcars too. FACCO went full steam ahead after WW II and replaced all their double deckers with single deckers, as did Chicago Motor Coach.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thank you very much, Glenn for watching and for your comment! I will definitely look into the FACCO issue you mention!

[@Where2bub]

Had no idea they tried doubledeckers at such a late year, btw I think when they said grand army plaza, they were probably referring to the one in Manhattan where the plaza hotel is, rather than the one pictured in brooklyn.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thanks for watching and for your comment! It's possible they meant the plaza hotel...I just went by what was stated in the article. But I could not find any pics of the buses at GAP.

[@tincanboat]

Very interesting. I did not know we had double decker buses anywhere in the US

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Yes...we do, but it's quite limited! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

[@nwfb970]

Thanks for the video and your story about these special guests of the city.. did you see or rode on the Japanese and French trial buses in the early 1980's?

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thanks for watching and for your comment! Unfortuantely, no, I did not get to ride the Japanese or French test buses...but I do remember seeing the French bus down by Water Street when I was working over there.

[@dieseldragon6756]

As a British viewer I'm quite shocked to learn their height was above American „loading gauge“ and might've required adjustments to street fixtures. We have our fair share of low and awkward obstacles of course (A densely laid, 200 year old railway network and its infrastructure will do that to _any_ country) but as a general rule many British roads can happily accommodate the ~4,2m height of our current ones, and double-decker buses are very much a staple of everyday British life. 🚌↕🇬🇧👍 I wonder why it is the MTA don't seem to take to double-deckers much, given NYCs increasing population and the need for more space on buses, making „doubles“ a very sensible option. Do you think they've ever considered the „Boris buses“ (The current TfL/London type) which have three doors and two staircases, which could significantly improve dwell times? 😇

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Funny thing is, there are double decker tour buses in NYC, and they clear the traffic lights just fine. So that's no longer an excuse :) Also, the older NYCTA bus depots may not have the clearance for double deckers. I agree that double deckers would be beneficial on a number routes here that I can think of, especially in Brooklyn. Some lines have articulateds. But I doubt double deckers will ever return here. Thank you for watching and for your comment!

[@stanleybest8833]

There were also convertible top Manhattan busses around 1993.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thank you for watching and for your comment!

[@melvinjacobs2328]

I used to enjoy the old 5th Ave double deckers in the top floor.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thank you for watching and for your comment!

[@O530CarrisPT_C2]

Lisbon had an experience with Leyland Olympian buses with UTIC bodywork. It didn't fare as was expected - also because it ended up being too impractical in comparison with the Volvo B58/Camo, Magirus-Deutz and Renault articulated buses. They also were too tall for some routes. Carris, afterwards, began to took the DDs out of service, with the last ones (Daimler Fleetline / Caetano) being OOS in 1996, a bit after the Volvo B10M-55A Gen III.5 / Camo Cronus artics entered service.

[@O530CarrisPT_C2]

I would consider double-decker buses for some Carris Metropolitana suburban routes (the 27XX/28XX, 37XX and 47XX) that operate through Lisbon to the suburbs.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thank you for watching and for your very interesting comments about the Lisbon buses!

[@adambrinkley4014]

2:29 That wasn't the periscope , that was the convexed mirror on the stairs to see who was coming up or down.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Ok, thanks for the clarification! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

[@ml9867]

Hey now! I just discovered your channel and saw you had some reviews of products from Five Below. I'm not sure if you're into LEGO building or if you were when a kid, but Five Below has several different off brand building block sets in stores and seems to get new varieties every couple months. They're inexpensive & of pretty good quality. I have gotten back into it after a 25 year hiatus & find it fun & relaxing.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Ok, thanks for the info!

[@jamesfrench7299]

Great feature. I read a NYT article about them on microfiche here in Sydney Library over 30 years ago. Sounds like the same article quoted in part here. The Leyland Atlantean was a successful model produced from 1959 to 1983. Sydney had over 200 built 1970 - 73 which were rapidly withdrawn from 1977 due to union disputes over one man operation instead of using a conductor. By 1979 there were 69 left and more went until a small amount of about 30 remained until May 1986 which were confined to Northern beaches express services before they were replaced by Mercedes Benz O305G articulated buses. I recently read that the Irish background mechanics wouldn't work on the NY deckers due to being a UK product and the troubles were in full swing back in Northern Ireland. What they didn't seem to realise was Leyland had high market penetration in both the Republic of Ireland as well as Northetn Ireland with hundreds of the popular single decker Leyland Leopards, though over 200 Leyland Leopards were stolen and torched during the troubles.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thank you for watching from Australia and for your comment! Yes, I also read the item about the NYCTA mechanics of Irish heritage that refused to work on the buses. It was mainly meant as a protest of anything British - regardless if Leylands operated in Northern Ireland. Also, another tidbit of info is that the Leylands were so different from the American GM and Flxible buses that they had to borrow and fly in a mechanic from London Transport to diagnose and fix them!

[@jamesfrench7299]

@@JeffreyOrnstein appreciate your explanation regarding the reasoning of the mechanics. The tidbit was also very interesting and that figures they needed expertise for these buses Americans weren't accustomed to. London operated hundreds of the very similar Daimler Fleetline deckers known as the DMS class that had the same engine and gearbox as the NYCTA deckers.

[@marksinthehouse1968]

Interesting the bodywork was based on the Mancunian , in London we are so use to double deck buses 😊

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thank you for watching and for your comment!

[@stevem.1853]

IDK how these busses would have worked out in the long run. British Leyland was in trouble for a long time. Were they rebuilt when they went to their permanent homes?

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thank you for watching and for your comment! I don't have any info on rebuild info when they were sold, but it probably wasn't much as they were used only for light to moderate sightseeing duties when Gray Line bought them.

[@alexandermathar7780]

They tried to crack the American market ?

[@Thebaguettes]

Yeah I think double deckers are cool and maybe useful in tight corridors, but articulated are much better for dwell times.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thank you for watching and for your comment!

[@anthonybanchero3072]

Catching on in Washington State with Community Transit, Sound Transit, and now Spokane Transit. All started with Community Transit in Snohomish County borrowing one from neighbors up in BC.

[@elcastorgrande]

It's pronounced "Howston" Street. I rode them, liked them, but the complaint was that they were unsafe, as criminals could use the upper deck.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thank you for watching and for your comment!

[@garymangan2761]

bizzare seeing double deckers in nyc .crazy odd

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

LOL, thank you for watching and for your comment!

[@MelanieRuck-dq5uo]

Why didn't a US, or, perhaps, Canadian bus manufacturer produce the double deckers for New York? (I'm in the UK, by the way.)

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Well, because US bus manufacturers did not produce double-decker buses (as it's not generally North American practice), it woud be too costly for, let's say GM or Flxible or AM Generaly to produce only 8 units, unfortunately. Thank you for watching from the UK and for your comment!

[@Takumi-dy4ky]

So I assume this thing got double engine one power the bus and another one power the A/C unit. Leyland later built a few Olympians with similar config for Hong Kong in 80s which also not successful because of they consumes too much fuel and so I pretty sure the double engine situation is one of the reason why NYC’s Leyland fail the trial

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thank you for watching and for your comment! Yes, these Leyland buses in New York had a second motor for the AC! Probably a real maintenance headache!

[@alexhajnal107]

06:05 Houston = HOW-st'n

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

LOL, thanks for the clarification.

[@alexhajnal107]

@@JeffreyOrnstein I've only encountered this pronunciation in NYC.

[@googleusergp]

British Leyland was on the ropes in the 1970s and had a lot of strikes, especially in their automotive end of the business. Eventually, they folded up. BL was owned for a time by the British government. Many BL products used Lucas electrical components which were notoriously unreliable and spawned the jokes, "Get home before dark", and Lucas headlights have three modes "Dim, Flicker and Off", and "Lucas, the inventor of the short circuit...."

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thank you for watching and for that very interesting comment about Leyland!

[@chrism2nm]

@@JeffreyOrnstein Or another, "Lucas the prince of darkness"

[@alexandermathar7780]

If they had been licence built in America, they would have shown their potential instead of being struck to death !!

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thank you for watching and for your comment! That's definitely a possibility!

[@gregsurrell598]

I didn’t catch the reason.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thanks for watching! The reason was because male riders on the first day stated the buses are great for girl-watching. It is part of the story towards the end.

[@uncipaws7643]

lady of a certain age?

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

LOL, I guess it's a nice way of saying "old" or "elderly."

[@ramblingman8992]

During 1976 Leyland buses was purchased by VOLVO and the quality fell off the cliff as Volvo put quantity and profit before quality and reliability. The last Atlantean from the Leyland era wax withdrawn from service in the UK in 2018.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thank you for watching and for the interesting comment about Leyland!

[@rikkilamb]

Absolutely rubbish. Volvo bought Leyland bus in 1987/8 and closed the brand in 1994. The Volvo Olympian was reputed to be far better in terms of quality.