How Much Damage Can Solphim + Mechanized Warfare Do? | 15 Rare Budget Standard Magic: the Gathering

[@shinymetalassassin]

"Why wouldn't they just kill us?" Of all people, I would expect Seth to understand that drawing cards is more important than winning.

[@Firebert]

More importantly, his idea didn't work since the flashback needs planeswalker loyalty to work.

[@WeAreFailsProduction]

You don't get as much damage because the player who is taking the damage chooses how replacement effects resolve, not you. So Arena defaults to them ordering to take the least damage possible. Thus, they take 1*2 +1 for 3 damage instead of (1+1)*2 for 4 damage. Please, damage doublers are only really good for big burn effects and are awful with pings because they usually are overcosted.

[@Robert-sq7bp]

I’m not sure that’s how it works, I believe it’s the person who controls the two replacement effects who chooses

[@towelguy]

tharja is right here

[@poiri]

@@Robert-sq7bp no, it’s the person who takes the damage that chooses. Just like the controller of a permanent chooses in what order opponents’ replacement effects affect it, damage or otherwise.

[@keoshine]

​@Robert Replacement Effects are ordered by the controller of the *affected object* rather than the controller of the source of the effect.. For Replacement Effects that replace/modify how much damage is being dealt by a source, the affected object is the thing that damage is being dealt *to* (in this case, the opponent, or possibly one of their creatures), not the damage itself (which isn't an object, affected or otherwise).. The relevant rule is 616.1..

[@gabeb9495]

Vorinclex's ruling disagrees If two or more effects attempt to modify how many counters would be put onto a permanent you control, you choose the order to apply those effects, no matter who controls the sources of those effects.

[@jasongray435]

I love that Seth does what we might call "The Gentleman's Karn Surf," that only we can see. I also don't like to rub it in with emotes but it's fun for us to see you get into it in this way Seth. :)

[@likeClockwork7]

In the first game, I'm not convinced that playing Thermo-Alchemist was worse than playing Flamebreather. What Thermo-Alchemist has over Flamebreather (and why opponent killed Alchemist first) is that it also gets 1 damage per turn, whereas Flamebreather stops getting any damage if you don't have spells for it. Playing Alchemist earlier means it got more turns to deal more damage.

[@osiris201]

Yep alchemist actually got 1 more activation than flamebreather would've gotten which netted him 2 damage. Also flamebreather has "haste" so it's better to hold on to it until you can cast a noncreature in the same turn ( -which he missed later in the game by casting the flamebreather after the 2nd chandra, not that it would've mattered with the sheoldred- ).

[@peetftw3461]

i think this way too, flame breather would have dealt damage 2 times for the 2 chandra and warfare, while alchemist has dealt 3 times before it was killed

[@KBM_38]

I agree due to alchemist not being able to activate the turn it comes in i always play it first so i can activate next turn cycle

[@boyo7918]

@@osiris201 He couldn't have played flamebreather first, he used the mana from the second chandra to play it

[@osiris201]

@@boyo7918 You're right I miscounted the mana, thought he had 1 left over.

[@jamescooley5241]

Haven't watched the video yet but Seth is about to learn how damage multipliers work lol.

[@ruthpol]

He didn't learn it the last time he played such a deck, so I doubt it.

[@andreaskristiansen6070]

The ending comment: "Thank's for watching everyone. I hope you enjoyed it, and i be back in a bit for the wrap up" 🙂 Seth's done this so many times, so he's starting to use his beginning catch phrase in the ending 😀

[@brushwagg7735]

Why is that the best possible intro to watching Seth beat people with budget red? Good on her for bouncing out of there with her kids. Not today, fire.

[@gaminggeckos4388]

7:39 I thought so too at first, but Alchemist comes with the advantage of getting in for 1 damage each turn! Flamebreather can also do that, but only if they've got no blockers, which Alchemist doesn't have to worry about.

[@izzyv830]

I haven't yet finished the video, but don't the replacement effects not work in the way you want? Since the person who's being damaged gets to chose the order in which the replacement effects stack?

[@MineRoyale.]

Yeah. People really don't understand replacement effects, since the intuition of "I control these spells/abilities/permanents, I should be able to use them in the way I want" is pretty convincing.

[@smore8566]

@@MineRoyale. Especially when in the case of resolving triggers, it IS the controller who is able to choose how they stack and the order in which they resolve. Easy trap to fall into

[@skykur]

As a torbrand EDH gamer, I had to learn this as well. Looks like arena does it automatically for the opponent

[@TheOKAY]

Yes I think it goes against people’s intuition, including mine. I don’t understand why the machines card is a replacement effect, doesn’t it just add one more damage? How is that replacing?

[@izzyv830]

@@TheOKAY well its because its not adding a separate instance of one damage. its changing the damage that's already being dealt to be one more. like for a lightning strike think of it less as add 1 damage to 3, but turning the 3 damage into 4 damage. its just the only way for it to work logically in the magic rules.

[@matterhorn731]

45:45 Light Up the Night flashbacks by removing X loyalty instead of paying X mana. They had no planeswalkers out, so they had to dig for a new copy.

[@matterhorn731]

@@chapmanandchapmanproductio974 Ha?

[@coreysierchio4650]

I like that "Crowd surfing the Karn" has become an MTGGoldfish meme. *Thanks for the Content* !

[@jefferyC]

When the video ends but you still have to wait for the wrap-up

[@trickster20644]

46:05 Light up the Night can't be flashbacked without removing X loyalty counters from planeswalkers you control. The flashback cost is, "3R, Remove X loyalty counters from among planeswalkers you control. If you cast this spell this way, X can't be 0." They had no planeswalkers, therefore, they couldn't flashback and weren't "flexing". They had to draw until they got another copy of LutN.

[@Beanz961]

Ty Seth for updating Pinger Burn from a couple months ago! Love the deck

[@myblujl7503]

Solphim just seems like a "win more" in this deck. I think you used it once.

[@moox100]

Yeah if anything I'd call this deck Mechanized Warfare burn and ditch solphim

[@ullrich]

@@moox100 Definitely. I'm not super familiar with what's available in standard - what would go well in this deck as a replacement? More burn? Some sort of card advantage? Curious to hear thoughts because it did seem fun but Solphim just wasn't a part of that.

[@moox100]

@@ullrich more card advantage sure couldn't hurt, exp synthesizer or big scores maybe, depending on if you want the samurai from synthesizer or not and can wait to draw

[@barnardvincent8946]

Agreed on card advantage. It's rough cause pulling solphim out is 4cmc when you're looking at Koth** as a huge boost towards win conditions which is difficult to remove from board w/ . Find more land > deal damage to target creature > emblem and deal dmg to face > present another target for damage***. **In the same 4cmc slot ***Opponent now has to choose between attacking/damaging face or removing your Planeswalker from board.

[@Ih8appls]

I finished watching the video, and am still waiting for the Wrap up 😞

[@frienetic]

12:10 wouldn't the lightning strike kill Lili and save the Salvo, but I guess that saved the reach of the other burn spells hitting opponent.

[@Ariaoff.Limits]

seeing Seth crowd surf the karn in his own way is awesome

[@biggymiggy6408]

As someone who plays a lot of red burn in commander, the opponent gets to choose the order that the damage stacks so usually it will be less

[@nightelfuser]

I would take out Solphim. Mechanized Warfare does it much better, because in addition to increasing combat damage, most pings do 1 damage so adding 1 more point is pretty much like doubling it. In Solphim's slot consider End the Festivities, it has really good synergy with Mechanized Warfare, and also your creatures. Taking out Solphim also allows you run at least 1 less basic, because it seemed like you had excess mana every game.

[@yeehawmckickass]

Completely agree with you here. I may try to slap this version together on arena tonight and try it out.

[@butdoesitscrub3457]

I love watching u play arena. The interaction with the animations just makes me so happy.

[@seantrahan5714]

This is one of my favorite videos of all time, huge thumbs up for putting this as the intro 🤣🤣

[@drewgregory4079]

Yeah, Solphim unfortunately seems just as bad as everyone said it would be. 4 mana is WAY too expensive for a burn card that doesn't do any damage on its own. In a deck jammed full of contingency cards, Solphim just rots in your hand 90%+ of the time.

[@TheChzoronzon]

Solphim is much better comboing off with Filigree Sylex in the oil deck. Usually instakill the moment he hits the board Look at the LVD version, for example

[@whiteboysushi]

Best way I've found to use Solphim is to pitch it to new Nahiri's +1, then get it out of the yard for free with her +0 when you have lethal. With no interaction, the nut draw goes something like: land 1, Goldhound, land 2, Chandra Dressed to Kill (opponent goes to 19), land 3, plus Chandra for mana (opponent at 18), play Nahiri at 5 loyalty, plus Nahiri to discard Solphim, land 4, reanimate Solphim with Nahiri, plus Chandra for mana (opponent at 16), cast Light Up the Night for X=0 (just to get it in the yard), flash back Light Up the Night and remove 10+ counters from your walkers (Chandra came in on 3 and plussed 3 times, Nahiri came in on 5 and plussed once, so they could be as high as 6 each)

[@lelandgill3631]

The grixis match was legit insane! Great playing

[@lelandgill3631]

@@chapmanandchapmanproductio974 sorry you're in so much pain. I hope you find serenity

[@allopeth]

Seth again you are getting the replacements effects wrong, it is the affected player who chooses the replacement effect order

[@jamespappas887]

Replacement effects are always ordered by the player/permanent’s controller they’re affecting.

[@wpmer]

I wish we had Cunning sparkmage on arena, or somethings similar to pair with basilisk collar for lethal pings on creatures.

[@dementievatz]

I think a 4-drop in an aggro deck has to be a finisher (see for example Hazoret), not a setup card that makes you want to cast your spells out of order. Solphim feels like an EDH card to me, and Mechanized Warfare suffers from this a little bit also.

[@jeffcgh]

Well, torbran was a very common finisher for Eldrane standard and he is a setup card so I think there’s a place for them. Solphim still bad with pingers comparatively.

[@nightelfuser]

Mechanized Warfare is fine. Solphim has to go out.

[@bernardosanchez3401]

nah Mechanized Warfare ability to undistinguish damage (unlike Solphim non combat damage) is super good red decks in formats like Pioneer/Explorer where you have access to more utility cards like Chandra Acolyte of Flame and Torch of Defiance or Goblin Chainwhirler, and also cheap spells like Spikefield Hazard, Wizard's Lightning even Viashino Pyromancer suddenly lightning striking while leaving a 3/1 body is awesome.

[@JaxonUm]

​@@jeffcgh torbran counts combat too, Solphim doesn't

[@bernardosanchez3401]

Thanks Seth, I'm inspired to play 4 Mechanized Warfare and 4 Roiling Vortex in Pioneer super YOLO style , lmao.

[@istovall2624]

i was under the impression (from torbrand deck) that the player receiving the damage choses the resolution of the damage replacement effects. i tried a similar build with torbrand, double damage spell, and guttersnipe, i was ruled against and the opponent took 6 damage not 8. is this incorrect?

[@istovall2624]

the ruling: 616.1. If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object’s controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply, following the steps listed below. If two or more players have to make these choices at the same time, choices are made in APNAP order (see rule 101.4)

[@skykur]

You are correct, the player being affected chooses

[@d_andrews]

That Koth list looks pretty similar to a deck Crokeyz was playing in the early access event

[@Mors]

Light up the night can only be played from the graveyard in exchange for loyalty counters which is probably why they went digging until they found a fresh copy.

[@stephenmanuel9860]

Really only following this account for Brewer's Kitchen, as he's the only one who seems to understand the rules

[@Arcangel61286]

omg that opener I damn well died from that before the burn...

[@jjthesecond2801]

Never thought I’d see Seth crowd surfing the Karn 😂 You even managed to do it without bming

[@Curt-ze6hl]

Seth's cadence is perfect for increased playback speed. Pro level youtuber move.

[@Junogray]

end of Video, "I'll be back in a bit for the wrap up" We love ya Sef

[@daggeranddoctor]

It’s weird how Seth’s games are so much like anime card games, despite Krim being the anime boy.

[@tntcows]

10:40 When you say missed damage, its not missed because you got to tap the defender for 1 each turn the same you would have gotten from the kessig triggers.

[@petrseghman4283]

I love the intro Meme selection.

[@TheShinobiFury]

Seth That intro was LIT hahhaa

[@99ZULU]

The meme in the beginning was too good!

[@adamtobiasz8793]

Yes indeed I did like this video. This a great example brother Set of enjoyable 😉 👍 👌 👏 😀 😄 😉 magic to watch.

[@zilkay6558]

Solphim is hard to get on the board but he's very rewarding when u can take advantage of him. U love it when a lightning strike and a play with fire deal 10 damage

[@jerrymcdaniel6643]

I had this guy in my refurbished deck with combustible gearhulk but I didn't really have enough of each and nothing else. It was nice to mill 11 cmc and getting 22 damage out of it lol

[@lordvaltasar4646]

what i want to test is how solphim fling would work either on grull or cranial plating style artifacts

[@luciushilliard6352]

Bear was calling a judge since he thought that was an illegal play.

[@LadyMapi]

No offense, Seth, but watching you get smacked around in match 2 by a bunch of "bad" cards was both hilarious and a little ironic. Especially since all of those cards are only bad if you don't look at them from the perspective of Big Red. • Sardian Cliffstomper's a great card if you're in a non-aggro Red deck (like, say, Big Red). It also synergizes well with both of the sagas - Reflections to copy Cliffstomper can be boatloads of damage. • Koth gives you "useless" mountains... except that those Mountains mean that you hit your land drops every turn. Which, you know, is something that Big Red wants to do. That -3 is also pretty solid removal in a deck that wants to play a bunch of Mountains (Big Red, perhaps?), and you threaten Turbo-Valakut after two turns of ticking up. • Volt Charge looks jank... but it's being played in a deck geared around expensive things that also has a ton of counter stuff to proliferate. Now I want you to play Big Red. :p

[@camfunme]

12:00 Lightning Strike would've killed Liliana (3+mechanized warfare), thus leaving Rebel Salvo for a Sheoldred if required.

[@lamiaprincess6371]

Oh I thought that last deck was the Mindsplicer Alchemist's Gambit deck I faced on ladder once and lost to. I mean, it might have been, but that was Jeskai so I'm not really sure.

[@MemoryLaneWizard]

There are so many sweet new stuff for Modern - please come back to MTGO!

[@davidcochran6974]

Rules question: you control Phyrexian Vindicator, Solphim, and mech warfare and you cast burn down the house. How much is your vindicator trigger? Is it different in paper vs arena

[@davidcochran6974]

Follow up question: if vindicator let's you stack the triggers more profitably, could that be a strat to make solphim broken? (Ignoring the glaring color problems the deck would have)

[@raymondhorn1052]

Since you control the affected vindicator you get to choose the order. So you can deal (5 + 1) x 2 = 12. And no arena should work the same as paper. Arena just has it set so the opponent always chooses to take the least damage possible.

[@Uberriffic.]

@@davidcochran6974 The main issue you'd run into with that combo is that both Solphim and Mechanized Warfare specify "Opponent or a permanent opponent controls" so they wouldn't buff the damage you do to your Vindicator.

[@davidcochran6974]

@@Uberriffic. that was definitely an oversight on my part. Thanks!

[@silent_statement757]

You should play big red for against the odds or maybe even much abrew

[@noahjaffe3094]

40:32 resurrected me from the dead

[@bigedyr]

That intro 🔥

[@UTUB2kholle]

... is farfetched and not especially funny. They searched "fire" (because...mono red I guess) on KZbin and grabbed the first memey video even if it doesn't make sense. (but to each their own !)

[@iancofer2272]

Why you play that Chandra over koth ..mono red?

[@uberrix6915]

hilarious intro as always :)

[@Alex_Simpson711]

Can you do a budget or a non budget mono red solphum burn deck in modern or pioneer? I love to see it!!!

[@TheChzoronzon]

Filigree Sylex is a much better option for Solphim, imo

[@sanfranfan53]

Doggo at 20:16

[@ecoKady]

I think there's a pretty good case to be made that your ultra budget deck is better than your budget. Thrill of possibility probably wouldn't been better than Solphim in most games. Really dangerous against counterspells, though.

[@yeehawmckickass]

Honestly, it feels like the list should be 2 Solphim in the 75. Don't know what to run in place of the other two though.

[@bernardosanchez3401]

Both, Koth Fire of the Resistance and Jaya Fiery Negotiator become very good once you have a MW on the field.

[@yeehawmckickass]

@@bernardosanchez3401 True but this list feels like it wants to be low to the ground. Saffron had issues being able to cast Solphim so replacing it with other four mana spells probably isn't the best idea.

[@bernardosanchez3401]

@@yeehawmckickass Reckless Stormseeker or Squee if you want hasty threats that also get better with MW.

[@NuclearRaven13]

so this deck did not work out for me, however I fused this deck with the last budget red deck you made and created something that is really good

[@r4g1ngph03n1x]

50:05 Doesn't matter if they have Emperor since they don't have double white.

[@brigandtea]

i have never seen the neon dynasty background before...is it a reward or something?

[@henrye3935]

Just FYI: You can enable or disable automatic ordering of triggered abilities and other decisions in the Options -> Gameplay menu

[@ciaran.downey]

Editor, you're the best

[@Risicoco]

Alchemist instead of Flamebreather wasn't a damage loss/sequencing error. Yes you missed two pings, BUT flame breather would not have been able to attack through the Goblin or Sheoldred AND Flame breathers trigger from Mechanised Warfare wouldn't get the extra damage from it since it is still on the stack while alchemist actovation did get it. So you actually gained 1 damage by playing alchemist in that situation. Alchemist is also better on board as it's one damge per turn is guaranteed and works with your amplifiers.

[@stephenhousman6975]

34:30 You need to learn that the person being effected by the replacement effects chooses the order of the effects. In this case the opponent chooses the order because they are being effected. One ordering causes 4 damage while the other causes 3 damage. The best option for the opponent (again the one being effected) will want to take 3 damage.

[@OGTahoe3]

I feel like you version of "everything is just kicker" is "everything is a combo"

[@levijaeger4910]

For the record, I would never stoop to plebian levels and put Lightning Strikes or Thermo-Alchemist in my pauper burn deck. Lol. That's budget even for the cheapest format.

[@brushwagg7735]

9:40 copying a crewed bankbuster gives you an uncrewed vehicle, not two 4/4s

[@Liteyears11]

Seems to me that the best way to improve the Solphim deck's win rate of the is to cut Solphim from the list.

[@suNn.K.O]

Aw man. Didn't even get the post-Wrap Up Wrap up.

[@heliomaciel]

The Sodium was delicious in this video

[@facepalmjesus1608]

Obosh likes this deck

[@MidgarMerc]

Still waiting on Papa Seth to come back with that carton of milk and wrap up

[@jamo5882]

why would you not run at least 1 red channel land?

[@rockandrolljew89]

I feel like I just saw Crim play a match against this deck (or something very close to it) in his last video....

[@MTGGoldfish]

I don't really play best of one, but apparently there's a burn deck with Mechanized Warfare that people play in that format (I've never seen it in best of three though).

[@BaygelTheDog]

Editor facepalming the emote 😂

[@GizmoGoonie]

Prodigal Sorcerer may finally Rest in Peace :D 🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻

[@ildathet]

Seth praying for land when he has chandra's mana ....

[@da-wizerd7413]

you should put torbran thane of red fell in because it is just like mechanized warfare but more damage

[@DDNEV]

Torbran isn't standard legal but I'm definitely doing this in my solphim edh deck

[@samuel5345]

Bro just play solphim with the Chandra mana

[@jongarmulewicz965]

He didn’t come back for the wrap up… 😂

[@fromadhdtodndtomtg]

Bear, "Dad, Dad, cat, cat! Dad, Dad!"

[@Tahu8100]

Game 1 he missed playing the second flamebreather before playing Chandra

[@spogo1]

Rem Karolus feeling so lonely

[@jamiekuryla3940]

that grixis match

[@30LayersOfKevlar]

two wrap ups? what holiday is it

[@htid2824]

Still waiting for a new kuldotha budget

[@simonchi5372]

Honestly, with so many ping effects I would just run a bunch of cantrips, not sure if there is any in red in standard?

[@Raknarroth]

OMG I built this deck day ONE!!!!

[@mysterygamer4086]

nothing says red like missing all your land drops

[@cloudmane4159]

When yall gon talk about new mox opal alchemy going infinite with displacer kitty?

[@derekcline950]

Because Historic having Legacy playable combos without having Legacy interaction has made the format miserable? And Alchemy hasn't helped either... Pioneer and Explorer are so much better, even if Nyx needs to be banned

[@edgarpettijohn8215]

Crowd surfing karn for the win.

[@mrpinguimninja]

Anyone heard from seth? This wrap-up break is taking a bit long, I'm getting worried

[@whenwhere6173]

Invoke calamity would help alot but not help the budget

[@uaantonidiusss.7587]

21 land is so greed for 4 drops

[@bernardosanchez3401]

if you're running 4 Chandras and 4 Solphim isn't it a good idea to run a pair of Mirror's Box?

[@1AlasBabylon]

No. The Mirror Boxes do literally nothing else and the legendaries are too expensive to think of playing multiples in a deck that wants to win quickly.