MTH HO Union Pacific Big Boy 4014 Excursion version Review vs. Broadway Limited

[@thomasavensjr.2790]

Excellent comparison review video, both BLI and MTH have both produced interesting models of the UP Big Boy, but both have their separate issues with detail placement observations. With the amount of $$ that these locomotives cost, the detail level should be as close to the prototype as possible, both engines have both flaws and interesting features.

[@eligebrown8998]

First ho tug of war I've ever seen. Well done

[@RodimusPrime]

Check out the bli big boy video that was quite entertaining drug 3 mth gevos plus

[@realmagicjon]

no foot plate between engine and tender,they really dropped the ball on this one.

[@MikesProjectsandHobbiesMC]

My MTH has one. Not sure what happen to this one.

[@BenjaminJTemple4019]

Hi @Matt, On the M.T.H. Electric Trains Version of the Union Pacific Big Boy, the steam generator or dynamo which is technically the steam turbine is on that locomotive. However, it is on the Engineer's side. All that piping you say isn't prototype, is for the dynamo. You can see it there if you look carefully. When the Union Pacific Big Boy Steam Locomotives were first built, that is the version of steam generator they came with. Due to getting dirt and other debris of material, the steam generator was move from the Engineer's side to the Fireman's side, but on top of the boiling instead of hanging low. This solved the problem of the steam generator getting dirt and other materials in it. I hope that helps.

[@RodimusPrime]

As time has gone on both of these models are now out of date compared to the new BLI that will be coming out with PTC and the correct dyanamos

[@BenjaminJTemple4019]

@RodimusPrime , My point wasn't that it was out of date, but rather that all that piping is prototype because there is a steam generator on the end of it and it represents the locomotive when it first came out. Due to experiments it was later changed because of performance problems with the steam generator. I guess it all depends on what time line you plan on modeling.

[@mjmonjure]

Can't wait to see the museum version of Scaletrains.com's BigBoy with LokSound from the MTH acquisition.

[@worldwar2historyandgear970]

Are they doing one?!

[@mjmonjure]

@@worldwar2historyandgear970 They purchased the tooling from MTH and said that is would be on their priority list, not real sure about a museum one, but surely a rivet counter

[@worldwar2historyandgear970]

@@mjmonjure Wow, cool. Did they say anything about an N scale model? (Thats what I do)

[@mjmonjure]

@@worldwar2historyandgear970 MTH only sold the tooling for HO (which scaketrains.com purchased), so I don’t think an N version is in the cards, but you never know!

[@rcandtrains1]

Also a way I’ve fixed noisy MTH smoke units is by dissembling the loco (My older run MTH big boy had a screw under a magnetized detail part on top of the boiler, and one in the cab) and pulling out the fan for the smoke unit and applying the smallest bit of light oil to the fan that powers the smoke unit. Sad to see they haven’t fixed the noisy smoke units on this run...

[@southwestvirginiarailfan729]

In order to access the steaming whistle on dcc, you have to hit f7. Its off by default so that if you choose not to use the smoke, you won't burn up the wicking material. To add the fluid to it, the whistle is held on with a magnet and it just pops off.

[@jessedax7333]

@southwest Virginia Railfan How is your unit? Has it got the platform between the tender and loco? Is the drawbar any different from the one in the vid? Is the smoke unit noisy? And the whistle produces smoke in DCC?

[@southwestvirginiarailfan729]

@@jessedax7333 I don't have one, I was looking at them on trainworld and it has what I mentioned in the item description.

[@RodimusPrime]

I can confirm F7 toggles the whistle smoke

[@Griphook3D]

I have a digitrax Command system and f7 does not activate smoking whistle ....

[@BeauMinnick]

The having the locomotive and tender hooked together like that I think started with Hornby OO steam.

[@traindad77]

Totally agree, MTH needs the Function control list IN THE BOX.

[@jessedax7333]

I've contacted MTH about the cab to tender deck plate missing. Midge Wilburn of the parts dept said he doesn't know why the platform is missing. It should be there. He asked for proof of purchase so I imagine they would supply the part. I haven't bought it so I can't send them anything but you could.

[@RodimusPrime]

I dont think its supposed to be there since its not been with any including MTH's promo video for this loco about a month before release. Due to the gap between the tender and cab the plate would not sit on the tender and would hang lower. This would cause derailments in a corner

[@thekeytoairpower]

@@RodimusPrime the 4014 coal version has one...

[@jessedax7333]

the 4014 in the catalogue has it and the hinges for it are on the model. I think they forgot about it or there was a problem at packing time....

[@Hgshelby]

Another thing, MTH limits their models to a certain top speed in DCC mode. Using DCS you can get the modal to go much faster up to 120 SMPH

[@rcandtrains1]

According to this published by MTH www.mthtrains.com/news/645 Pressing f7 on any DCC controller should activate the smoking whistle, only advantage to using DCS is apparently being able to quill the whistle, which I assume changes the smoke output from the whistle as well

[@James-Railyard]

As much as I like MTH engines... they totally dropped the ball on this one. I’m looking to get an Athearn and BLI example of Big Boys and hopefully find an older run of the MTH example as I’ve seen them in action and more impressed with them.

[@ambosd11]

I have the older model MTH No. 4016. It's in for repair for the third time. It keeps throwing or breaking the drive shaft (dog bone) for the rear drive set. The repairman says that it is a design problem. I do love the sound, whistle, and smoke production of the MTH, though. I have a BLI 4014 and I agree that the sound is not as good as the MTH Big Boy.

[@DrWu-pn1qd]

Very nice review and wise opinion for choosing #4014, good jub!

[@tommyt329]

The model train manufacturers jumped on the bandwagon when it announced that BigBoy4014 was going to be restored to full working order. To date I have never seen any of their models resembling the real 4014. Eg: the steam injector isn't black, there's 2 dynamos, there's a blue hose on top of the tender., It's painted in gloss, the pilot/leading wheels are black, it has 4 stainless steel piston covers, it has 2 running lights on either side, it's got an LED headlight, the cab is painted green inside. One would think for the price of the model we're paying at least get up to par with its accuracy.

[@traindad77]

I bought this newer model due to the smoke whistle & mth possibly closing forever. I also have the 2016. I have torn down the tender to find the rattling... it's the axles rattling cause the speakers are so loud.

[@Trublemaker12]

the one thing that annoys me is that MTH uses the same whistle on most of their steam engines

[@Bryce_TBS_Films]

You need to get the most recent run of bli big boy glossy it's a newer version then yours.

[@poteznyczar]

0:02 can you please tell me what the brand of those cars are on the left (including auxiliary tenders)? i am new to ho and i am trying to find the best passenger/freight car brand out there. i have 24'' curves so i think the size of the car will not be a problem. are there any brands you reccomend? thank you! sz&f railroad

[@brodieforsha2696]

The cars are mostly Walther's and the aux tenders are scaletrains I believe

[@DGModelworks]

Looks like Broadway takes this one!

[@WVS-KFD]

Useful comparison. Thanks.

[@TobiasL1000]

As I saw you use an ESU Ecos. Does it have trouble to Programm BLI decoders? Like changing CVs and DCC addresses?

[@RodimusPrime]

@@TobiasL1000 nope works fine, i program on the main not with a program track

[@aaronschaff4587]

Where did you find the water tender

[@HushChild6666]

nice review

[@Griphook3D]

Where you able to activate smoking whistle ? I had also bought mine from train World and was unable to activate the smoking whistle and yes the smoke machine is very noisy and the tender has a high pitch hum in the background coming from the speaker..

[@RodimusPrime]

F7 activates it

[@Griphook3D]

I can’t seem to get it to work on my DigiTrax command station

[@MoosesWorkshop]

Great reviews. Like the look of the broadway better. Also do both versions have the piston covers on or off? Hard to see. Ps, how did you get your track curves so precise????

[@paulrice5766]

wonder same thing what radius's do you have?

[@claytons8263]

You need to put the smoke in it for it to blow smoke. I have the Athearn Genisis Promontory version I like it but since I recently found out about the Broadway limited and a few others I think I ended up at the bottom of the pile don't get me wrong I enjoy it. If I paid the $ that you paid for that I personally would send it back for a refund because I don't like the way it looks and you can't seperate the engine from the tender like I can w mine. Just my opinion. Where did I get the speed reader?

[@Marco-xz9sc]

Are you gonna add cotton balls in the tender to help with the reverb and rattle in the tender?

[@ginogalante]

Wow, I am considering getting one!

[@pandorasgalaxy5731]

Smoke unit is amazing on MTH

[@warbabyproductions]

Cool

[@brutalkiller9383]

which of the two locomotives gives the best experience with smoke devices installed? tnx

[@RodimusPrime]

Mth has always had the better smoke effect but its also noisy. Bli is easier to live with

[@brutalkiller9383]

@@RodimusPrime tnx so much for your time :)

[@peskybobcat]

OMG for the price this thing would be going back looks like to me you got someone’s reject

[@jasonboche]

Thank you! Based on this video, BLI is the way to go. MTH dropped the ball in a few areas. For the cost of this loco, not very acceptable. Choice is good in this case.

[@Toaster844]

I’m getting a BLI 4014

[@Reading_Modeler]

10:48 anyone else catch that siren?

[@RodimusPrime]

I never noticed this before LOL

[@candleflame4355]

I believe Broadway was better in almost everyway, Minus the fact that the MTH looks very nice with all the separately applied details and piping even if it misses some things and has a bit too much red, and I think The MTH would have won the Tug of war if the engines were kept at a medium speed.

[@whitewallwheels1hardcore.m_o_h]

mine arrived broken i sent photos and they blamed the parcel people and i got my 2-6-6-6 for free - the only thing i did not get was the import duties ---

[@thekeytoairpower]

If you still have this on the bench can you check power draw? Mine is registering 1.3 amps at speed step 8 with both smoke units on.

[@robertbuck6139]

Your train is close to failing unless they designed a new decoder, 1.3 amps is too high for an MTH decoder, 1 amp is on the high end, .75 maps was average for any HO MTH engine, if they added another smoke motor maybe .85 amps is all it should draw, but then again using quality parts or protecting the decoder wasnt something they were interested in when I worked there as it didnt make money

[@brutecompaq2999]

They just released a mth gs4 are you considering getting that?

[@RodimusPrime]

On order....still waiting

[@noman4087]

What radius curves do you use?

[@joepinto509]

Bli rear mark lights on the tender are not wright meth is correct to 4014....I'd talked to Ed the engineer and that..4014 only has one red marker light above the rear reverse light ....bli has smoke unit issues that leak on the inside the boiler shell and the oily smoke residue sits on the engine board and glitches out the decoders or blows the decoder....

[@whitewallwheels1hardcore.m_o_h]

hi you forgot traction tyres thats why you get the motion tool

[@RodimusPrime]

They both have traction tires....

[@minisoul01]

My MTH 4014 must be a older model it has a Coal Tender

[@realmagicjon]

Still no dynamo?

[@Toaster844]

Or maybe I could save up to by the MTH and the BLI

[@jessedax7333]

Good review. Thanks! I was looking forward to this MTH BB but now I'm disappointed. What's the story between the loco and tender? is the platform missing 'cause they forgot to put it in??? In the catalogue the BB has it. No dynamo? pipes all over the firebox?? smoke box sounds like an old fridge?? NO SMOKE? Have MTH gone crazy??... Very disappointing. we'll see what the GS-4 is like. It's just been released and in stock at Trainworld. Will you do a review on that one too??? Cheers !

[@RodimusPrime]

I have a 4449 on order. Id pass on this mth big boy its a disaster

[@jessedax7333]

MTH said that the whistle smoke intensity would be variable using a DCS system. I didn't expect though that the smoke would not be working AT ALL in DCC. I'll pass on this but with tears in my eyes...

[@RodimusPrime]

Ill make ya a good offer on this one!

[@jessedax7333]

@@RodimusPrime no. I'd rather leave it.

[@thekeytoairpower]

@@RodimusPrime how good a deal?

[@tonyfrancesco3701]

Big boy born in Schenectady n.y Alco plant Erie bullivard.

[@wobblinwheel]

The fact that an OIL FIRED locomotive has an ASH PAN, is nothing shy of RIDICULOUS and INCOMPETENT. CHROME pilot wheels is UNACCEPTABLE. The distance between engine and tender is downright UNBELIEVABLE. MTH can't seem to get away from their TOYLIKE O GAUGE "ROOTS"...!

[@RodimusPrime]

Thing is previous releases were much better...

[@robertbuck6139]

With your coal plate missing, it wouldn't surprise me if you got a refurbished engine, I saw many engines I repaired when I worked for MTH come back later after being resold as new. I always tell people to examine the wheels for wear before use or just buy a different brand due to faulty motors and poor wiring being done. MTH has a high return rate, I have seen new motors fail after 1 year on an alco a/b set twice on the same set and the customer was charged both times which is unacceptable. The squealing smoke unit is probably due to being improperly assembled, maybe they are using too long screws again, no clue they never resolve issues until next run and then screw up other things. The smoking whistle not working doesnt surprise me either since they reverse engineered it from the paragon challenger that sits in the back room of R&D. I dont think they ever did a recall on the last Big Boy run yet that had 100% failure on the drive system due to faulty worm gears, just not a company I trust. They ran out of toilet paper 3 times a year every year I worked there due to the incompetence of their head of R&D was too busy slacking. Best of luck if you deal with MTH, I have to go to the bathroom and take an MTH.

[@mack042]

my big boy is making that same annoying humming noise f7 to activate whistle smoke dcc

[@tylerbrown5161]

I had 2 bli bigboys and both of them the decoders went out I was so pissed and I can never get a hold of anybody eventually i did and i sent one back and got a new one and the same damn thing happens. I got a mth and im happier with it. The bli system is just all mickey mouse bs and there wiring diagrams suck..... Yes the bli is very nice looking but I can't keep having the damn things blowing out on me.

[@RodimusPrime]

Ive converted a paragon 3 challenger to tsunami 2...I can make BLI sound really good

[@tylerbrown5161]

@@RodimusPrime yeah but i do not Have the know how to do that crap so i just fixed the damn thing and sold it before it goes out on me again

[@mopacproductions6669]

4014 doesn’t have all of its parts so that could be why the Mth has everything and the real one doesn’t

[@jamescurti1793]

engine has the dynamo mounted below the ash pans like all there runs of big boys it also has a red wheel on mounting casting which is wrong .it would take a lot of work for unskilled ,to correct this this engine shouldn't have ash pans they are for coal engines.as for dynamo you can find them easy ,there are brass ones out there an not hard to mount on top of boiler.

[@gghi7071]

dam that a lot of loco boxes

[@n6hpx]

do any of you reviewers get to keep the locos or send them back to the company. Most places where I dealed with Radio electronics have discounts on items out of the box. Mark downs. For example.

[@brodieforsha2696]

All of the reviewers in ho I have seen always buy the products they review in most cases including this one

[@FrankJGZ]

What what pisses me off more than anything about MTH is that they use the bottom half of the 1944 as delivered big boys with the top half of the 1941 as delivered big boys. That is the reason why the dynamo is on the engineer side at the ash pan and not on top of the boiler on the fireman side. That also explains why the firemen side fire box contains that extra detail that you mentioned. Only the big boys 4020 to 4024 had that extra detail.

[@Toaster844]

Ya all r gonna hate me for this but in my opinion I prefer the MTH over BLI first off, the MTH is a die cast body and the BLI is a plastic and I want something that will last a while before it breaks plus BLI 4014 is overpriced but 599.95 for a die cast body on an MTH Big Boy is pretty impressive plus even though the ash pan and other tubing is on this current model u could always remove that stuff. But hey in my opinion I think both are great steam engines and if u want to save money I’d go for the MTH but I do know what u mean about the BLI I was gonna get an athearn big boy or a BLI big boy but I came up with the final decision to save up my money and hope to buy an MTH 4-8-8-4 Union Pacific Big Boy No. 4014 to go with my layout. Plus it will be nice to see it next to my HO Lionel Polar Express 1225 2-8-4 Berkshire

[@tylerbrown5161]

I had 2 bli bigboys and both of the decoders blew out in them in my opinion bli is junk and there customer service sucks

[@Andrew-se9be]

Have to say my first impression of the MTH Big Boy wasn't that good, but I kinda figured I was just being harsh on it because I have the BLI version and I was trying to defend it, whether or not it needed defending. Having watched you're video I feel like my first impression, while a little overly critical, wasn't as far off as I thought it would be. That being said both are very nice models, with the only major downside to me being the rather odd look of the tender and loco being so far apart.

[@jaymasterrock9595]

Big Boy has been around since WWII!

[@realmagicjon]

The draw bar looks awefull,

[@KTHedleyBassoon]

BLI all the way

[@MikesProjectsandHobbiesMC]

Pretty cool comparo. I have both, a couple of things but first and foremost, while that tug o war is cool thats a real quick way to overheat and blow the motor controller part of a decoder. LOL I could have told you the BLI would pull slightly harder, it has traction tires on both sets of drivers while the MTH only has them on one set. On the MTH you have to turn on f7 after startup, that controls the steaming whistle. Im used to BLI and kept tapping f7 to try and turn the smoke on and I was actually disabling the whistle smoke. LOL Whistle working -> kzbin.info/www/bejne/hoDVZoOjidmWjpo I like both of them equally. I have more "issues" with the MTH. One being the volume control pot in the tender seems to do nothing and the volume control with DCC seems to either be on or off not in three levels like they state in the manual (that you have to download because its not included). This causes the speaker to over modulate like crazy. The front pilot wheels not being blacked out, not sure what they were thinking. I also dont think the paint on the MTH is flat enough. Seems like a semi gloss and looks bad compared to BLI. You have little to NO options with MTH when trying to adjust thing with JMRI. Im my opinion MTH should offer a DCS model and a DCC model. Id much rather have a regular DCC decoder than a DCS system that emulates DCC. If there was a way to replace the DCS decoder and keep the chuff and steam whistle Id rip it out and toss it in a heartbeat. MTH running -> kzbin.info/www/bejne/hHytk5V6l96Hja8 Ive had my BLI Big Boy for a little over a year. Ive had one problem with it and it was 50% my fault. I forgot to throw a switch and it derailed and shorted and I didn't hit the kill switch. This destroyed the motor controller in the decoder. I emailed their Tech Support and described the symptoms and within 24 hours a new decoder AND motor were on their way to me. This is a win win since I have yet to have MTH reply to ANY emails. BTW the decoder they sent was a Rev H which is their newest release with a plug for a current keeper and its running better than it ever has.

[@cheztys4565]

To: Mike's projects and hobbies... Thanks for the information concerning the tractive effort comparison and the situation regarding traction tires! The vast majority of reviews (95%÷) make no mention of that detail and it makes a huge difference in tractive effort comparisons! The pulling power of a locomotive, both when starting and on line of road over a given territory...is in many cases... their most important 'real world' attribute! The only other things that come close are visibility and braking options and effectiveness. Yet it seems as though reviews of scale model locomotives are focused on describing the details of the models which are clearly apparent when given a thorough overview from multiple angles... except perhaps the most important one, the underside! Details that can't be readily seen... such as the number of powered axles and the presence of traction tires (and their location) and the number and types of motors are rarely, if ever mentioned. Another area that could be improved has to do with the emphasis on sound effects, other than simply giving an overall sampling of the more commonly used or encountered variations available with the model. This is especially true in the vast majority of cases wherein the sound simulations are only vaguely representative of the real thing! Just some thoughts from someone who spent close to 40 years in most the various types of freight locomotives just as the F units were being retired...

[@karlsummers8010]

If it doesn’t measure up to your standards, send it to me

[@RodimusPrime]

This was sold days after this video was made

[@colinbarner2479]

MTH is not perfect, but it is obvious their quality surpasses BLI by a long shot. How people cannot see this is frightening. BLI engines are a step above junk, especially recently with their decoders.

[@RodimusPrime]

On the big boys mth didnt do as well as bli

[@mjmonjure]

Try calling MTH for support on these. Completely useless. Have to go through a customer service intermediary who talks to the "engineer" before he never gets back to you. Forget opening a ticket on their site (email), they also don't respond to that. I had all the same challenges that you are having and I got mine before they put the manual online. Not having a manual in the box for such things as F7 for whistle smoke is just a really crappy new buyer experience. Mike Wolf just doesn't seem to care too much about the "customer" like he used to.

[@robertbuck6139]

I worked for Mike for over 3 years and never met him once and I dont think any one I worked with thought he cared about anything but money, he didnt even know how to use his own engines on DCC when I worked there so he cant care to much about his products can he. He knowingly stopped using quality motors in his engines to make money which drastically increased motor failures which caused decoder failures causing many customers to incur $165 or higher repair Bill's, actually most of the repairs I performed were due to this. I would put out ideas like using a fuse system to protect the decoder or a limiter but that would cost money so we cant even suggest it was what I was told. I had seen many customer issues take over a year to resolve and one I remember took almost 3 years to resolve and the poor customer was lied to so much I pushed to get him a free refurbished engine. I liked helping fix people's issues but the company didnt care about actually fixing things, it took over 2 years to get a drill, horrible company to deal with in any way.

[@mjmonjure]

@@robertbuck6139 Sorry to hear that Robert. Lionel Joshua Cohen's motto went something like, make a quality product, sell it at a fair price and keep you customers happy, clearly never adopted at Mike Wolf's company. It is as clear as a sunny sky, do it right, high QC, fix your mistakes and you will have the undying gratitude of your customers, then they become repeat customer and thats when your company grows in leaps and bounds. Over the many years, that seems to fallen by the waste-side, in most businesses.

[@robertbuck6139]

@@mjmonjure exactly what I tried to point out to them but it fell on dead ears.