Multi-pitch climbing: set up a belay at a stance

[@GordonStainforth]

Well, I think it’s a well done, clear instructional video. Of course there are other ways of doing it - many - but this as a basic one is just fine. Except, as others have pointed out, I would have tried to have a third nut that would take an upward pull to make it perfect. But this is not always possible. Many classic adventure routes have much more dodgy belays than this (eg. the top of the 2nd pitch of Diagonal). Most climbers, unless much lighter than the leader (e.g. a small girlfriend), will NOT be lifted off up off the ledge if the belaying is done properly. In my 40 years of climbing I held dozens of falls, one or two directly on to my waist belay (tremendous force), and I never dropped anyone. Many of those were in the days before belay plates were invented, and involved waist belays wearing leather gardening gloves. It goes without saying (i hope) that beginners and relative beginners should practice belaying in a safe place (small crag with nice grassy ledge at bottom for example, like the Capel Curig Pinnacles). A good thing to do on days when the weather is dodgy/showery. One other point. The way he uses his hands with the belay plate is not the best way, and not quite the system I used.

[@MrAussieJules]

I find a Edelrid megaJul belay device good with double ropes, especially skinny ones. It autoblocks on a fall, with the biner being pulled up into a notch. TAkes a bit of practice to use rapelling etc. But you can also rappel with a munter hitch and prussik as back up. Also I prefer a long looped spectra cordellete at belays...

[@Lindixpod]

thanks for a great explanation. It tooks me a while till I understood pros of that technique.

[@happydaylord]

and if the steve climbs above u and takes a hard fall ur gonna get pulled up and smashed against the rock or what?

[@juliolopes10]

Always nice to learn diferent techniques, thanks or the video. In case the second climber get stucked or for any other reason you need to reach him, HOW DO YOU ESCAPE THE BELAY ???

[@dukeofnuke2446]

Or you second just carries a good old pair of jumars...

[@DeShark88]

Julio Lopes - - Tie off the belay device - Attach french prusik on climber's side of the rope. - Tie a klemheist around the lines leading to the anchor - Attach the prusiks together using a tied off munter using a sling between them (probably the same sling you tied the klemheist with) - Release the rope and let out enough slack so that the prusiks are weighted. - Back up the climber's rope in some way (tie off belay device again and rebuild the anchor with a new master point for example, or use your improvisation skills) - Secure yourself and untie. Is that going to be slower than just tying off your belay device in guide mode off a cordelette? Yes. Is it an acceptable compromise if the likelihood of needing to escape the system is low? That's up to you. For single pitches at a busy crag, I'd say it's fine - you're probably just going to lower them back to the ground and/or shout for help. For multi-pitches in the middle of nowhere, I'd probably use an isolation loop (tie a figure of 8 on a bight, and then create the anchor using that fo8 instead of your tie in fo8) or better still, a cordelette. There's pros and cons to both (what do you do if you drop your cordelette for example? the rope is more dynamic, the rope is higher rated, the rope is arguably faster, etc)

[@sil8127]

Read a climbing book, this is a simple process.

[@user-do2rb6rp8z]

no multi-directional piece in the anchor? if the leader fell on the next pitch, the upward force from the fall on the belayer would rip both of those nuts out of their placements

[@artbyrobot1]

THANK YOU!! I notice the lack of multi-directional or upward force pieces on EVERY anchor building video! It seems like every belay station on youtube is designed to get the second up to the stance and then both rappel down immediately because the anchor is not prepared for a safe next pitch...

[@Kristianbp1]

I would not think that would be necessary with the ledge he is on? He has to be pulled like 3 meters into the air in order for the pieces to come out. Yeah, I get it if he was closer to the pieces but on a nice ledge like that it just seems so unlikely.

[@MrMartin627]

Depends on a number of factors. Here, the belayer is positioned quite a bit below the station, his bodyweight acts as the counter-weight when a lead climbing fall would occure. As long as you belay over your body, are positioned below the anchor quite a bit and know how to belay dynamically (feed rope through your belay device during a fall) then you (hopefully) won't get pulled up far enough the rip out your pro.

[@willwoof2171]

I don't think I've watched one video on anchors and other rope-related techniques where the comments aren't all about how bad the video is in terms of safety. Is every single video here terrible and incorrect then? 🙄

[@mack0usk007]

Good point, but still he should tell the viewer that this is his way how he is going it. Not experienced person does not know, that this not the proper way how to use the belay device. But of course each climber was to be sure what source of climbing information is going to use. There are several things I would not recommend to do in this video, but if both climber know the pros and cons, its ok. Maybe if they would give this info to the viewer it would be better... Just saying :)

[@nickhill2340]

this is very very different from every video I've seen, all the books I've read, and all professional guide instruction I've received on belaying. Idk about this one..

[@jgrrv686]

Because it's always noobies who watch these videos and when they see anything different than what they were taught in their learn-to-lead course they took, they assume it's wrong. Its the classic beginner stage when you've learned just enough to make you think you know everything.

[@oscardodd4223]

@@nickhill2340 In the UK it's very standard to belay off the harness on a multipitch climb. It's definitely got some disadvantages - it makes escaping the system harder (but it can still be done!), it means it's less comfortable for the belayer to hold the second when they're resting on the rope. That being said, it's easy to lower a climber (which is much more complex to do in guide mode), the belayer is in the system to absorb some of the impact of a fall (compared to belaying straight off the anchor where the load is transfered straight to the anchor), it will work safely (if not optimally) all the time, and it's blimming simple! Simplicity counts for an awful lot in terms of safety in my opinion - ESPECIALLY when it comes to novices.

[@alex3143]

Why not run an equalized sling between the two points and then belay the second with the reverso? Self-blocking, and not on the harness, so just as solid and less punishing in the event of a second falling.

[@valreznic]

Very much agreed

[@jgrrv686]

With how far apart the two pieces are, he would need to use a very long sling to get a decent enough angle between them if equalizing. That would put the masterpoint pretty low to the ground which would make the belay very awkward. The way he's belaying here puts a good angle between the pieces, uses the rope which is stronger than any sling and better for absorbing forces in the system, and he's belaying off his tie in loop which puts the force from a second fall straight in to the anchor. Very easy to hold a fall belaying the way he is.

[@benschuster9792]

Using the rope to build the anchor and belaying through yourself results in lower forces on the gear. Lower forces means anchors won't rip out

[@jkemp9]

Autoblock??

[@Sammmmmmmmmmmm.]

Given that many beginners have far less understanding of rescue techniques than they do belaying, it could be seen as far safer to teach them to belay without the use of guide mode because improperly releasing an autoblock function is one of many common causes of fatality. There's no hard and fast answer for a "safer" way

[@jorgeabelardoramos]

Old school belaying technique!

[@1Molehill]

It's fascinating reading the comments below. The climbing community is such a bitchy, critical community. If you don't like it then move on, or make your own little film. Other communities in paddling, skiing or surfing don't have this problem, they respect peoples ideas and continue to develop constructively

[@TheGreenTucan]

I have never climbed with 2 ropes. Is this necessary to pitch climb. I'm used to sport climbing. This looks much different and also different gear. What type of climbing is this called?

[@TheCJfunk]

This is Trad (traditional climbing) where you would use nuts or cams in cracks for protection rather than bolts in sport climbing. You usually use 2 ropes as the routes you typically climb in trad might change direction quite a bit, this helps with rope drag over the climb.

[@grimlund]

People are talking about autoblock here. I have never ever in my 15 year climbing life used an autoblock when Im belaying another person. Dont now about America but Im from Sweden and no one uses autoblock. As long as you allways have one hand on the braking side of the rope its fine. And non of my climbing partners have died.

[@H1Hummer]

Yet! ;)

[@grimlund]

@@H1Hummer People are talking bollocks here. The stand is solid for taking up the second guy. If they atend another pitch above they just need to put in another gear who can hold for upward forces.

[@H1Hummer]

Somebody should teach him the much safer way to use that ATC.

[@markj4306]

J J Newer methods of belaying aren’t taught because they are safer, but because they are easier to teach new climbers a majority of the time.

[@Sammmmmmmmmmmm.]

Given that many beginners have far less understanding of rescue techniques than they do belaying, it could be seen as far safer to teach them to belay without the use of guide mode because improperly releasing an autoblock function is one of many common causes of fatality. There's no hard and fast answer for a "safer" way

[@Scot1shSqu1rell]

If he uses that ATC in guide mode he's teaching nothing to new climbers who don't have an ATC...

[@chrisjones245]

i will say you may have had to step out futher with your anchor as you had some nasty rocks you were dragging on, other than that... maybe try to do it all with one rope. nice job, although you techneque could get your hand caaught in the belay device

[@BretGorham]

Hand placement is on wrong when belaying, if you're not going to use an autoblock, shouldn't be letting go with your break hand.

[@alexhcdw]

Actually, it's quite common in Europe to be taught a belay technique where you cross hands over on the dead rope (brake strand to you guys). The rule then isn't "never take braking hand off the rope" but "never let go of the dead rope" i.e. you must always have at least one hand tight on the brake strand, but you can let you with your dominant hand as long as you are locked off with a firm grip from the other hand. Although I think general consensus is that PBUS is that most reliable method for teaching beginners and will probably become standard over here eventually.

[@moosilauke18]

The AMGA (American Mountain Guide Association) also teaches PBUS.

[@automatc415]

Lots of problems. Do not mimic!

[@Torturro100]

Obviously - tis is the LAST multi pitch - as this doesnt include anchor - for when someone cimbes up - and falls - dragging these 2 points out.

[@FourT6and22]

WTF this doesn't seem right at all. I'm sure there are many ways to skin the cat, but I would have just used the rope to build an equalized anchor off those nuts with a master point. Anchored myself to that. And set up a top belay off the master point in guide mode. Belaying upside down off your own harness like that? No thanks.

[@sil8127]

He did use the rope? But not making a big master point saves time and is no less safe. This is perfect for twin ropes. Have you ever tried belaying like that? 99% of brits belay like that when climbing trad and I've never heard of an accident caused by it and its very simple to do.

[@ianwebb6182]

done it this way a 1000+ times. It's the standard way. Puts less force on the anchors which can be essential if you have limited options

[@FourT6and22]

@@ianwebb6182 The standard way? I've not seen anybody advocate doing it this way ever. Most will just hang the belay device on the anchor in guide mode and belay like that. It's faster. It's more simple. And the device operates with assisted braking instead of you trying to pull the brake up against gravity by using your triceps and lats. And you're also separate from the belay. Less force on the anchor? I don't see how. If your partner falls in either situation, the anchor feels it. If you look closely, he's belaying off the anchor's master point! So why not hang the belay device in the proper orientation (guide mode) instead of trying to belay upside down while you're also attached to the belay point. Hang the belay device above you in guide mode like it was designed to do.

[@ianwebb6182]

@@FourT6and22 I've never seen anyone do it with the guide mode (although i understand the technique) - at least in the Peak district or Wales. Each to their own - but this is just second-nature, its so easy and fool proof and the climber can just climb thru with no messing around

[@FourT6and22]

@@ianwebb6182 Maybe a USA vs England thing

[@steventhaw3765]

There you go again taking the brake hand off the rope while you are belaying your partner!

[@TUFF93ryley]

I can't see any point where he takes both his hands off of the brake rope after he begins belaying. You might be referring to him using a belay technique where he swaps hands. it's very common and safe. More common for older climbers than beginners though, so understandable if you haven't seen it before.

[@kayakerodie]

there is no safe or easy way to escape the belay here......should have had at least three anchors points......judging on the fact he made himself part of the belay process, he doesn't have a rescue in mind, so yes a prussic would be nice......hell even a gri gri would have been nice to implement.

[@artbyrobot1]

forgot to add a prussik to back up the brake hand in case you let go

[@sil8127]

Not required. You wouldn't do that on the ground belaying, 'in case you let go'

[@dukeofnuke2446]

Is no one commenting on the fact, that his belay device isn't even clippe to his belay loop ????

[@benschuster9792]

Because clipping it to the rope loop is better...

[@dukeofnuke2446]

@@benschuster9792 lol no. no manufacturer recommends to do so

[@adventureswithfrodo2721]

Very poor this is only good for be laying climbers up but not be laying climbers passing you.

[@sil8127]

You can't spell belaying so I won't trust your advice.

[@trevornoah1498]

Really false how to belay.. and also dangerous…

[@steventhaw3765]

NO larger than a 60 degree angle for the anchor points!!!!

[@adventureswithfrodo2721]

This is how NOT to do it. The anchor needs to e multi directonal. You need a anchor for when the climber passess you and goes on up. PLEASE REALIZE you are provideing POOR information.