Rock Climbing - multipitch abseil

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Glenmore Lodge instructor Derek Bain takes you through all of the steps needed to safely complete a multi-pitch abseil. Glenmore Lodge offer a range of summer climbing courses from May to October and winter climbing from January to March. We offer everything from complete beginner courses through to bespoke guiding trips on routes of your choice.

[@glenmorelodge]

We have received a number of questions about this video. Hopefully the response below addresses all of these. Using tape and accessory cord are both cheap and will cost approximately the same. The breaking strength of tape and cord could also be similar depending on which diameter you choose. As stated in the video I used 6mm cord, giving a breaking strain of 750kg, enough for an abseil. If this worries you 7mm cord is good for approx 1000kg. Any knot in any sling or rope will weaken them (up to 60% in some cases). This is well known, so the strength of ropes and slings are such that they will not be broken in typical high impact climbing situations, even with knots in them. Abseiling is a very low impact process compared to climbing fall situations. The climbing rope does not move over the accessory cord when abseiling so therefore can not cut or burn it when you are hanging on it. Heat will be generated when the rope is being pulled down afterwords and may damage the cord, however you no longer need it. At popular descents you may find in situ cord with or without a Karabiner or ring, however it is your responsibility to check these anchors and replace them for your own use if need be. As this is a multipitch asbeil the equipment is left behind, this is why we use as little equipment as is safe, in many cases just accessory cord. It is good practise on arriving at a stance to remove any old, unusable cord to reduce the amount of 'tat' left on the route. Although designed to help viewers to understand the methods involved these videos are not a replacement for proper instruction. If any of these concepts are difficult for you to understand you should seek professional instruction.

[@amaliaperrotta4016]

Your instructional videos are very good and watching them we can see why you do the things you do, armchair mountaineers are always going to question and criticise others techniques and ideas. Personally I was brought into the activity with the understanding that equipment shouldn't be used to bridge the gap created by poor technique on the part of the climber. Your technique means you can use the setup above safely whilst others will question it. Keep up the good work.

[@danielfry8882]

+amalia perrotta good response. Its good to question as it broadens our understanding but this is criticism, criticism of an organisation that pioneer climbing

[@tylerjb85in]

Armchair mountaineers? Try, I have been actually climbing for over 20 years as do probably a lot of people "questioning". There's a reason to question bad practices, especially if you're on youtube teaching people these practices. Nylon and Nylon DOES NOT WORK, especially when you run half a rope through a cordellete, friction happens. Then, he weights said cordellete. Not to be rude, but i think everyone should "question" where they get their instruction from.

[@JLongTom]

@@tylerjb85in That 'half a rope' was running over the spine of the carabiner when pulled through. Still, I would prefer to pull the rope down first (tying a loop of it to the anchor temporarily if need be) and then retie the knot joining the ropes through the anchor loop. Criticism is good, but you have to admit that there is a fair amount of dogmatism among those who comment on instructional videos. Not all of them can be right, but their confidence suggests they believe that they are.

[@EightiesTV]

7:25 I was like "oh boy, I hope it doesn't jam in that crack on retrieval."

[@hoppy1970]

@nick hoffman The worst failure for DMM Dyneema was 6.1 kN which is well strong for abbing. If you watch the film carefully, you'll note that the accessory cord, of 6mm, has a breaking force of 750 kgs which is far less than "worst case" tied Dyneema. The loads that you are thinking of are dynamic factor falls, not abbing loads.

[@tomchatfield5695]

Great video. I'm concerned about you building a two place anchor on the lower pitch and looping cord directly through the cable loops of the nut stoppers. I was under the impression one should never risk the cable cutting through the weighted softer cord.

[@RobCranfill]

Leaving accessory cord *with a rap ring* which could be re-used by the next rappeller - er, sorry, "abseiler" - seems preferable, to me, to leaving a piece of cord that is only destined, as you might say, for the rubbish heap. In neither case is it "leave no trace", but at least with a ring, it's conceivable that the rig can be re-used by the next team, and not simply used once.

[@index7787]

Agreed, always use a ring, they are cheep. And if they rerun a new line, they can use the same ring.

[@IRealBored]

would you trust some cord that you had just found left on the pitch god knows how long ago?

[@eyescreamcake]

@@IRealBored No, but I'd trust the ring.

[@chamonix4658]

The next guy who comes along hopefully isnt gunna trust their life to some cord thats been sitting there for god knows how long, with or without a rap ring on it the cord is gunna get cut and replaced either way.

[@Salmontemaki]

Why make a knot for the anchor master point as you did for the second anchor? Wouldn’t it be wiser to not knot so as to not lose rope strength, especially because there is no redundancy there as opposed to a quad or sliding x. Would like to hear your thoughts Thanks for the video

[@gregpphoto]

Good stuff. I might just add that if you set up the prussik (or klemheist or autoblock) before you thread the device, you can pull up some slack, allowing you to not only test whichever hitch you choose to use for the backup and confirm its working, but also will let you thread the device much easier with the backup hitch holding the weight of the rope. However, the "french prussik" or autoblock must be used with an EXTENDED rappel or else you risk having the autoblock run up into the rap device.

[@Ogames234]

Greg Petliski if you test the Prussik without threading the belay device first and the Prussik fails you will shock load the sling as that’s all that will be holding you to the anchor. Thread belay first then check Prussik cos if Prussik fails you have the belay to hold you. Shock loading slings will break them.

[@PB-sk9jn]

Tie the blue onto something before pulling the ropes just in case. Just a 20s clover hitch... !

[@PhweeRage]

Really very useful and clearly explained. Thank you.

[@MechanixPL]

Very instructional video. I'm wondering if there is a danger of the rope cutting/burning through the cord used for the anchor. I know some people use rappel rings to avoid this from happening.

[@roteraffe7726]

+MechanixPL shuld be no problem becase the ropes are not moving during beley

[@paddyoneill3243]

You can also purchase very cheap rings to leave on your tat to thread the rope through they pull down with a little less friction also

[@nickerzgames]

so when you abseil, you always leave gear behind?

[@JLongTom]

Not necessarily. If you find a nice spike or tree (or Abalakov thread), you can just loop the rope around it and be on your way. Or you can use a tagline to retrieve your sling. And that's in the case of natural protection. If you're abseiling off bolts (with rings attached) you can treat it like a tree or spike, or use the Reepschnur method to do longer abseils with the same rope. Tons of options, all with their own advantages and disadvantages.

[@index7787]

If you have to build your own anchors, YES. Use a rap ring so the next guy can use it, they are cheap. Many routs have bolts with rings you can use so you don't loose any pro.

[@RainBoxRed]

Never use nylon on nylon! When you have uneven diameter ropes or even varying friction levels they will move through the anchor as you abseil. Chuck a biner in there - $20 to save your life.

[@floringheru]

isn't rope on rope 50% strength loss ?

[@amaliaperrotta4016]

Dont know if thats true but even so that would take the accessory chord to 375kg strength and the rope to about 6kn so still plenty to abseil off if you started speeding down starting and stopping straining the system that where the problem lies poor technique will cause more problems.

[@tomsomerville4722]

floringheru slings are yeah and rope i think is 30% howeer, its statically loaded so it wont make any odds if youre abbing out/off

[@index7787]

There shouldn't be any shock loading so it is safe but I would never do it. Rap rings are cheap and the next guy can use them, I always throw one on there.

[@JoseaBorrego]

a mi me parace que los que enseña , no es nada correcto, siel cordino que una , ni la disposicion del descuelgue , ya que rozan las la cuerda con el cordino pùede provocas en corte de la cuerda. Tampoco el sistema de alclaje y triangulacion del descuelgue. En fin creo que tiene demasiados errores para ser instructor.

[@MMillan]

Las cuerdas no rozarán hasta que el comience la recuperación, ya que al estar bajo carga no se mueven o el movimiento es mínimo e imposible derretir una cuerda así

[@Blackjack4141]

is that a single rope

[@roteraffe7726]

+Blackjack4141 no i dont think so

[@dadsantafe]

This video forget a basic rule: Twice, always twice.

[@JamesOStanworth-Wang]

Replay - then you'll here "A to B to C" - that's the "twice" or second check

[@Blackjack4141]

how do you tie your prusics like that at 4:33

[@keithlaurenz3774]

Blackjack4141 Check out the fisherman's knot

[@keithlaurenz3774]

Blackjack4141 www.animatedknots.com/doublefishermans/index.php?Categ=climbing

[@index7787]

I know climbers don't like splicing, but I splice mine.

[@tylerjb85in]

Generally not a good idea to run your nylon rope through another static nylon rope as seen in 9:30....

[@ivomiturhead]

Yeah that was terrible to watch! IMO, every climber should grab an old climbing rope (or a piece of one) and stand on either side of a section so a loop rises up to your knees, then take a cord or other section, and slip it under the loop so that the cord travels from your left hand, under the rope, and up to your right hand. Just swipe the cord back and forth while pulling upwards and it will cut through the rope in less than twenty seconds, ten if you are strong. That's with only a little bit of weight pushing the ropes together! After seeing that I have a hard time dealing with rope-on-rope contact :P

[@davekuss]

I agree and disagree with both of you guys, while ideally you would use a rap ring here it is not mandatory. The way it is shown in the video is perfectly safe as there would be no build up of heat, due to friction between the rope and the anchor, while the climbing team rappels because neither the rope or cord will be moving. Once you start pulling the rope through the anchor it's another story - the friction from the rope running through the cord will damage the cord quite quickly and this is why you should never reuse a cord that has been left at the top of a climb

[@davekuss]

I'll give you that for sure

[@brandon10601]

I'm new to this. Once you make it to the bottom, how do you recover your rope/gear?

[@McChickenguy]

In this scenario you don't unless you were ab'ing over a cliff with a view to climbing back out.

[@PhweeRage]

You either leave the small cheap nylon cord up there. Or, as in many abseils into climbing spots, you climb or clamber back out.

[@index7787]

The anchors get left behind, your climbing rope pulls through to recover.

[@paulfenn5060]

This is bad form, pure and simple.

[@JamesOStanworth-Wang]

Care to elaborate? Surely "bad form" actually warrants point by point critique?

[@climbon3157]

The connecting his third hand and rappel device both to the belay loop was a failure. Should use different hard points in case one fails. If the belay loop fails he has total failure and no backup.

[@paulfenn5060]

@@JamesOStanworth-Wang 1. Use of only one anchor off which to abseil from summit is dangerous. We always try to rig three anchors, or at worst two. 2. No metal in anchor. Should use a sacrificial belay ring, screw chain link or, if recovering the gear later, two locking 'biners set obversely through equalized anchors (note the plural). 3. Pulling full length of rope though another rope creates a friction point and may damage that anchor line and/or climbing rope. Rope-on-rope friction is naughty. 4. Use of overhand knots on the anchor and the abseil rope-ends. Should use double-overhand or figure 8 knots. 5. All this assumes he's leaving behind that anchor. If not wanting to, he'd have been better off just throwing the ropes around the rock outcropping he put the anchor around, belaying straight off them, then pulling the knotted side down slowly.

[@bretonkyle]

@@climbon3157 This is also true of...normal belaying. The forces rapping are nowhere near as high as catching a fall.

[@toddbevans4192]

It's been said so many times below but it can't be over stressed. Never, ever, everevereverevereverEVER, use nylon against nylon. Never. Nev-fucking-er. Seriously. If you're worried about "leave no trace", it was thrown out the window the second you decided to use bright, brand new cord and leave it behind. An additional rap ring isn't going to make it any more or less "Leave no trace". If you're really worried about it, paint your rap rings a dull color so that it blends into the rock. Plus, if you're going to leave a rap anchor behind, at least use a rap ring so that multiple parties can use it as well. You might be lucky and get very little (there is zero chance that you will have absolutely none) abrasion on your cord, but the second you pull your rope, you've compromised your cordage. Worst case scenario, someone is going to see your cordage, think it's usable as an anchor, rap on it, and fall because the anchor failed on account of your negligence by using nylon against nylon. In short, USE A GODDAMN RAP RING!!!

[@nathanadam2970]

+Todd Bevans It's not negligence on the person who left the anchor in place, it's negligence of the person who turned up and thought it was okay to use something without inspecting, backing up or completely replacing. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the methods shown here, the rope does not rub against the abseil tat at all because the ropes are tight against it all the time. Foreign climbers would do well to brush up on other countries methods of doing things whilst climbing and realise that not all methods are incorrect. After all, the Americans are famed for their triangle of death and building every possible belay from slings because they don't understand the concept of not having a master point.

[@kayakerodie]

+nathan adam OMG.....how fucking irresponsible and racist was Nathan Adam's statement. At first I was going to say cudos to him for setting the subject of negligence straight....until he opened his mouth on the third sentence....what the fuck does being a foreigner have to do with climbing? Maybe he should learn something from Americans......I am an american, and I know perfectly well what both a master point and a power point is and the difference between them. Maybe he is the foreigner. Since when is he a better person than anyone else from a different country......shame on him for being a prick.....no wonder he became a judgmental climber....his mother must have pushed him out of the nest at an early age and caused the triangle of death to be imbedded in his brain when she didn't form it correctly......lol

[@nathanadam2970]

+kayakerodie American is not a race, if you want to be politically correct about it then it would be called Xenophobia.

[@vasocreta]

OMG. Sensitive much?

[@willthornton4391]

Just wondering how you retrieve your gear back from the top ?

[@ryanpringle1345]

He only left the cord.

[@PhweeRage]

The aim is to climb back out.

[@eyescreamcake]

A Euro Death Knot threaded through a Euro Death Knot, fabric on fabric, and a sling girth-hitched directly to the belay loop? Ok... I guess that's safe. :/

[@Puddles91843]

excelent!

[@sumeriansun]

Wow, suicidal. Rope on rope (rope do cuts rope in many situations) and that anchor is made with shoe laces and no backup system.

[@bennevis6843]

Robert P how would you back this up please so I know

[@EightiesTV]

Those "shoelaces" will lift an automobile. This is not cotton clothesline.

[@andresvonkaenel4442]

Instead of overhand knots it might be best to use figures of eight, they're easier to open and glide better over the edges (sit up)...

[@kristoferreed1913]

The overhand knot is considered to be the least likely to get stuck. Also a figure of eight that is not retraced can roll over itself and come untied if ends are pulled in opposite directions. If you are concerned that your load is approaching the tensile strength of the rope, you can use a retraced figure 8 (with stopper knots). It's estimated that this reduces the rope strength by no more than 25%.

[@davekuss]

I would definitely use an overhand here but I would back it up with a second one snugged up close to the first. It adds a little more of a chance it could get stuck but it also adds a little more confidence in the system, well at least for me!

[@acrew87]

Lots of people have died using a flat figure 8 (rolled over until it untied itself). A figure 8 bend is fine, but best to avoid it all together in case you one day get confused or you confuse someone else.

[@index7787]

Eight knots roll, not safe. They are also bigger. Overhand is the way to go, main climbing ropes are beefy enough that both are plenty strong.

[@steventhaw7711]

Safer to tie figure eight knots instead of over hand knots which can come untied with repeated tension/slack/tension/slack. Without a rap ring or biner, the rope and or the anchor sling can be cut through in 8 seconds with repeated sawing motion!

[@JLongTom]

Flat Figure of eights can roll over easily, unlike overhands. Use two overhands in series if you worry about loosening.

[@index7787]

Both are fine, the best is two overhands right next to each other with a long tail. And agreed on the anchors, that should be a water knot and the line should go through a ring, rings are cheap and the next guy can use it

[@brannendelker6298]

Come on man. This shit is on the internet for any beginner climber to stumble upon. "The climbing rope does not move over the accessory cord" ....until it sometimes does (although unlikely with similar diameter ropes and a backup) when one strand feeds through the ATC a little faster than the other. There's probably a couple other scenarios I'm not thinking of as well. Would this create enough friction to cause failure? I'm not interested in finding out the hard way. If you're going to make an instructional video, use a (rated) $2.00 rap ring, quick link, or even a couple of old opposite/opposed wire gates and show people how to rappel without being sketchy and cheap.

[@JamesOStanworth-Wang]

Well I'm waiting for your video to show me how to do it without "being sketch and cheap". Surely, too, you concern should be "sketchy, cheap and unsafe" - and on the latter everything seems fine. As I say, just waiting to watch your version of how to do it.

[@Gendoikari12]

I am wondering what was the diameter of the acessory cord for the abseil stations , I would think that using nylon webbing would be saffer and cheapper, any opinions ??. Also the 60cm dynemma sling he uses o extend the rappel is being knoted which is a great mistake unless you know what you are doing but this seems to be a instructional video.

[@김수한무거북이-q8w]

You are lucky. The knot is wrong!