Multiple Subwoofers - Is It Worth It for 2-Channel Audio?

[@davidm7824]

I used to have 1 sub and read and heard that 2 was a lot better, so i bought another one, same brand and model. WOW, what a difference it made. I will never go back to only 1 sub!!!

[@PasqualeDeRosa-n1v]

I did the same last week, bought a second Wharfedale 150 to go with my B&W I think centre speakers I got in a kinda pawn shop but hey with my Allen Heath mixer and DJ turntables? Same as you WOW. Whole lorra fun.

[@Bennettsaline]

After seeing a couple of videos about this, I decided to try it. One reason I had hesitated was that I didn't have two of the same sub, not even close. My second sub was an old Sharper Image sub with a 5 inch driver! But my AVR has two sub outs, so I hooked it up. Glad I did! Evened out the bass throughout the room, and made if fuller. Don't get hung up on trying to timbre match the subs.

[@aerofart]

I use two different brands of subs with quite differing characteristics and find that to not be a problem. In fact, I think it can be better in some cases because the two different frequency responses can complement each other if set up correctly. Where one sub might do better in the ultra sub frequencies, the other might have greater extension at higher frequencies.

[@georgemarin5006]

Very incorrigible. Sometimes like myself I can’t decide or do things the correct way on my own. Which videos like this come in handy. Very helpful. Thank you

[@aerofart]

I find that adding different time delays to one of the subs in my two-sub system makes the greatest difference in flattening the overall frequency response, when measurements include both mains and both subs, and the the subs each are tied to the left and right channels respectively. The time delay acts as a phase shift, which is handy when you don’t have variable phase controls on the subs. Now, time-shifting does affect the time-alignment of the subs with the mains, but from what I understand, at low frequencies this is not a discernible characteristic, and it is by far less important than getting the frequency response flat at low frequencies.

[@johnmclaughlin4496]

I have 2 SONY SA-WM500s in my media room. I got them on sale for $99 each. I have them placed on the side walls facing each other about 3' from the corners and about 12' apart. I am extremely happy with them for both music and movies. I balanced them with the mains, which are bookshelf speakers, for music listening but it suits me fine for movies too. I am not a bass freak so they are not exaggerated under normal conditions but with the right music they can really energize my 16' x 20' room. Especially with pipe organ music and electronic music. Definitely 2 subs, or more, is the way to go. Mine will do 20hz even though they're only rated at 150 watts. I must confess that I have a 3rd subwoofer, which goes lower, that I turn on for special occasions when I want to shake the concrete floor. It's fun to see people's reaction to that.

[@pauld7069]

Great summary. Thanks for making / posting. I started with a single sub and went to a second sub. Older Sony SW-500's. No DSP however they do offer phase, turnover and level control as well as low level RCA and high level speaker inputs. Through a lot of placement testing using a tone generator and software was able to find the sweet spot for both of them. As suggested in the video and can't stress this enough, going from one to two subs made a significant difference . I can move around the room and have consistent bass. As you suggest patience is the kay. Don't be afraid to try different locations in the room.

[@jeffsloane8628]

Great video. Thumbs up. I agree with everything you said except, in the three multi sub configurations I've set up, the bass response is smoother in the sweet spot and throughout the room even before I begin setting levels, phase and EQ. The likely hood that a consumer would place two subwoofers in their room such that the troughs or peaks sum is extremely unlikely as the low frequencies and small room sizes of most homes. Unless they stack the woofers in a single location, which I have seen some folks do.

[@georgemarin5006]

I agree. Was double thinking myself for a second.

[@davidmckee2898]

I'm glad you made this video I have now gone off the idea of a second sub. I'm find it hard enough just to get the one sub right😏

[@TreesnakeTV]

Serg knows what key words to grow the channel fast 😁 Stick to what you are doing with travel / motorbike tours and the occasional big hit video like this to expand. Don’t go the route of the “ other channel “ with car focus only. Great work 👍🏻☀️🔥

[@goldenearaudioreview4904]

Great job! Really agree with you about budget and subs. My plan, while my room is being constructed, is to put a sub in each corner.

[@TheEmmef]

What I don't get (or do I?) is manufacturers do not offer linear phase DSP filtering. This can allows for crossovers or frequency-based magnitude changes (equalizers) without frequency-based phase problems, except that ALL audio is delayed for a number of milliseconds: latency. For non-live or recording equipment, latency is almost irrelevant. Without additional phase shifts in overlapping speaker configuration, a lot of the mentioned problems below a hundred Hz become _a lot_ easier. Yes, you need like 1.5 times the computing power and a few MB of delay buffers, but that is about it. In an ideal case, you would do this processing before the power amps.

[@laardvarkzilllions7955]

Great explanation. You can also use DSP on a computer, in Roon, or with a miniDSP

[@timbathras2660]

Thanks! Yes, DSP is available through other platforms, but if you use it on your PC or Roon, it’s much harder to control each sub independently. MiniDSP is multi channel, so that’s easier, but still doesn’t quite beat the convenience of SVS’s built-in DSP solution. In my case, and most where multiple subs are used, each sub will need its own independent DSP settings.

[@ThinkingBetter]

@@timbathras2660 I run a miniDSP 2x4 HD connected to my iMac in my home office room with one Velodyne servo sub and a miniDSP SHD in another room with a Mac Mini. I don’t have any dip as I’ve tweaked the EQ and cross-over precisely. Two subwoofers are likely to create doubler effects canceling each other at certain frequencies. I much prefer to use a separate DSP allowing proper active cross-over filtering and EQ on the already digital stream. It’s way better to use a miniDSP solution than some DSP in the subwoofer that can only deal with what the subwoofer is doing and is relying on an extra ADC.

[@peterdesmidt8742]

@@ThinkingBetter How do you find the dacs in your MiniDSP?

[@ThinkingBetter]

@@peterdesmidt8742 By looking at the PCB 😊

[@OOnti-dz4jd]

2 SVS 2000 well worth it. It doubles the base frequencies without forcing one sub. One sub sounds good but you’ll have base negative spots in your room. 2 subs fill everything up.

[@elongatuspiranha]

Excellent breakdown. One of the best I've seen and I've seen a lot. Subbed ;)

[@timbathras2660]

Thanks!

[@vote4ulvio]

I have 2 subs in my media room and it's awesome. Great for music but it does take a little bit of time to tune

[@audionmusic2787]

According to the 2.2 specification, are the 2 subwoofers connected to identical inputs (mono) or are there dedicated channels for each side, carrying L/R audio which has been lowpass filtered?

[@azzinny]

What about 3 speakers producing 20 - 100Hz? A pair of large speakers without low cut filter and an additional subwoofer.

[@josealfredfernandes]

Do quad subwoofer and octa subwoofers next please(home use).. even 16 subwoofers, if possible(outdoor)..

[@martheunen]

4 is doable... i have them all center height and midwall position... made time aligning easier and helped a lot with standing waves. Eventually i want to try 8 subwoofers, where i will have 4 near the floor and 4 near the ceiling, as to 'get rid' of even more standing waves, especially floor/ceiling related ones. 16 subwoofers i really think is in the realm of diminishing returns. Heck, 8 is probably overkill, but I'm curious enough to try it someday. ps. the harmann white papers are a good read if you want to know more about multiple subwoofers.

[@elongatuspiranha]

I did one sub and it took at least a few hours a day to perfect. I can imagine how long two would take.

[@Don-md6wn]

2 is easy as can be if you have subs where you can control the settings via a software app. I have a pair of Martin Logan Dynamo 800X that can be controlled via Anthem software on a tablet, which also includes room correction that you can run. There are settings for each sub for volume, low frequency volume, crossover point and phase, with minute adjustments - 1 degree increments for phase, 1 hz for the crossover point, for the volumes you can go -6, -7, etc.. You've going to use the same settings for both subs, just make small adjustments from your listening position until you've got the sound you want. I knew about where they should be placed and the subs weigh less than 30 lbs each so fine tuning their placement wasn't a problem. As for the volume and other controls, the recommended settings from the manufacturer got me in the right neighborhood. I made small adjustments as I listened to more recordings that had varying levels of deep bass, but haven't touched them again since the first couple of weeks or so. It would be harder if you had huge subs that are hard to move and were having to go to the subs one at a time in potentially hard to reach places and fiddle with knobs, then go back to your listening position and try to decide if the sound was better or worse.

[@klepp19]

Does second subwoofer have to be same brand, type x and size as first subwoofer?

[@undercrownhiphop9422]

Do your subs with dsp built in cause latency issues with other mains?

[@pauledwards8721]

Good to see someone else’s adventures with subs 😎 What happened down at 20Hz though? Almost looks like you’ve got some cancellation down there, Id have thought with a sealed unit you’d be getting better 20Hz performance down there and should see a summation of around 6db with both subs working in harmony.

[@dopydude]

Great video Tim.. very informative and useful in helping understand a dual sub setup. I have a SVS PB1000 subwoofer which i plan to use with another SVS PB1000 in my 12ft (L) x 10 ft (W) x 10 ft (h) room. My Yamaha AVR has 2 subwoofer pre-outs but its a parallel output i.e. the AVR settings dont allow for individual subs tweaking. So i can 1st find the 2 room locations for each of the subs using this method (or say measuring room response across positions using umik-1 to find the 2 good spots. Had a few basic questions, really appreciate if you can answer.. 1. Is there a way to set the SPL, delays/time alignment and phase between the subs 'manually' using placement and phase knobs on the sub back plate, adjusting distance in AVR (for delay) and/or changing room placement. 2. I can use REW + UMIK1 to get the multi subs to EQ properly (using placement and adjustments on each subs using phase and gain). Will i still NECESSARILY need to buy a MiniDSP to ensure the 2 subs output is controlled (using MiniDSP house curve) and aligned with the YPOA auto EQ? I am assuming when i run the Yamaha YPOA auto EQ calibration (all 5.1 channels), the AVR will treat both subs as 1 sub and calibrate both as 1 sub with the 5 speakers. Assuming it treats the 2 subs as 1, will it not mess up the phase/ time alignment between the individual subs? Appreciate if you inform on the above please :) Thanks and keep posting!

[@timbathras2660]

Using REW and the UMIK1 is going to be what really lets you figure out where to place the subs. I don’t do much at all with AVR’s, so I can’t offer much help there. What I would do is, don’t use any correction on the AVR at first - use REW and your ears to place the subs and use what tuning you have available on the subs to get the measured response as best as you can (remember - don’t try to chase perfection or you’ll drive yourself crazy - just do the best you can, and there will be compromises you‘ll have to make). Once you’ve done the best you can with no room correction, then you can see if the AVR can help any. You don’t “need” the miniDSP, but it would grant you more options for tweaking settings, etc. As far as mimicking phase or delays settings by using position only, you won’t get much unless your room was huge and you could move things by several feet. Hope this helps!

[@dopydude]

@@timbathras2660 thanks Tim. this really helps clear out things

[@tainosavage2169]

Is a 100 watt 12" sub better than 200 Wt 10" sub in your opinion?

[@bullpup33]

Bought my sb3000 last week. It's a beast! Should I do two sb3000 then?

[@JavonDGreen]

yes absolutely

[@JavonDGreen]

I would also recommend you purchase a measurement mik and mini dsp if you can. It can seem pretty intimidating at first however If I can do it anybody can. There are plenty of KZbin tutorials. You don't really know what your missing unless you go duals.

[@quiztrarenggana4902]

Can we combine sealed subwoofer dan ported subwoofer? Need your advice thanks

[@poyocru]

Yes you can combine just need adjustment

[@tuna9919]

Thanks a lot for this video is super helpful! Could I ask your opinion, im thinking to get one q acoustics qb12 12 inch sub, or I would be better off with 2x q acoustics 3060s 8inch subs(they are much slimer, smaller etc) ? 2x qb 12 is out of my budget

[@christianmani1730]

Go for the 8” ones. The bass will be much better defined.

[@shaundavidssd]

2 subs is always the way

[@okcyurwin]

Looking at the first measurement of your single sub would strongly suggest you have not placed it in the optimal place for that room. Also the acoustic materials you have may be adding to the very large dip with the single sub. A second sub can help but get as much right as you can with the first before throwing a second in the mix👍🏼

[@timbathras2660]

Since the making of this video, I was able to improve the response of just a single sub, but my placement options are limited even in this dedicated space. Another factor is that the best placement of my listening chair for imaging and sound stage is not quite the same as the best spot for bass response, and that’s where having the 2nd sub really makes the difference for me. I’ve also reconfigured all the acoustic treatments in the room by removing all of them and adding back in one piece at a time, taking measurements with each additional piece installed (the treatments I have don’t even really measurably touch any frequency under 80Hz). Thanks for watching and for the comments!

[@SEBAS7IAN777]

I mainly listen to music I want really loud bass that can be heard all around the house do you think I should go for dual pb 2000 pros or a single pb 4000? Dual pb 2000pros are equal to the price of a single pb 40000

[@timbathras2660]

That is probably a question best answered by SVS. I can’t say for sure.

[@SEBAS7IAN777]

@@timbathras2660 they said dual pb 2000 pros will provide a similar experience as a single pb 4000 so i’m not sure which one to get

[@timbathras2660]

In that case, go with what will fit your space the best. Two PB-2000 Pros will take up a lot of space, even if you just stack them, but you also then have the ability to spread them out over the room. I don’t think there is a ‘wrong’ answer here, really. All I can say is that my two SB-2000 Pros can make the dishes in the kitchen above my listening room buzz around on the table if I really go nuts with the volume.

[@rcstudio7026]

how about 2 sub without build in dsp and my avr unable to calibrate 2 sub woofer differently?

[@timbathras2660]

By taking care with placement, you can still see improvements. But that’s just it - placement is key as that’s really the only ‘tool’ available to you. Also, if your subs have a phase or polarity switch, that could be helpful to experiment with.

[@mikewinburn]

cool video. thanks for posting

[@jsmctch]

Concessions is the word your looking for

[@TheSimonarne]

6th order cabinets is a thing. you can even go higher for more choice

[@Packer1290]

First factor should be do you have any money or you broke? ...LOL! I have a HSU VTF2-MK5 and I waited a year to purchase a 2nd. (Its on its way). The big factors for me was seriously 1) I got some extra bonus money from work. I had the money in the bank buts its much much easier to sell a wife on something like this when its extra money and 2) I have a connected Kitchen/living room so the space is pretty large at around 5000 cubic feet. I should add that as another factor....the wife factor. Can you convince her its needed? Probably not so your going to have to get creative or just ask for forgiveness later.

[@smaganas]

5:35

[@jeffm2787]

Yes, yes it is.

[@dougg1075]

I didn’t like having two.. but I’m sure I did something wrong.

[@ravington666]

Sounds like something I'll leave till retirement....

[@thomasschafer7268]

Yes. All wenn have the $donkey. 1100€ for one or2200€.

[@payammoini2898]

Great video, thanks. I'm wondering if I should place 2 subs between my bookshelfs or outside them for stereo music? (I have enough space for both options)

[@philipw7058]

This is no help at all ridiculous 🥴