How to Fix 90% of Your Intonation Problems

[@SarumChoirmaster]

DOUBLE STOPS ARE THE ANSWER; SPECIFICALLY OCTAVES, NOT SCALES OR ANYTHING ELSE. Simple double stops develop and set hand framing and muscle memory. For example, first finger on a upper string played with the open string below is never exactly in the same place as a first finger on a lower string and played with the open upper string. Octave double stops starting in 3rd position is the correct way to begin playing in tune. Also, the use of a highly sensitive and highly calibrated tuner will help you; although it can produce, at times, frustration since the mere pressure of the bow and a minimal slight pressure difference in a finger will wildly register on a tuner. Why do I say simple double stops? Think! How can you set your hand AND play single notes of a scale in tune when the muscles of the hand AND your ears have not been trained. Finally, absolutely NO VIBRATO EVER and no bow pressure except the weight of the bow! Think of making a sound on a crystal glass half filled with water and your wet finger. Its all the same process - exact speed, exact slight pressure with no hesitations. So it is with a bowed string instrument. I am a 63 year old professional concert level violist, violinist, choirmaster, organist, teacher and composer. I have taught hundreds of children K-12, adults and have studied with some of the greatest teachers and performers around the world. Practice everything with a metronome in extremely slow speed as if you were a Tai-Chi Master or pantomimist. Extremely slow, even, soft practice males perfect. Tackle little amounts! Scales are for the accuracy of agility, speed and dexterity. More complex scales in double stops come after simple double stops. Then finally scales and etudes. ALL AT FIRST WITH NO VIBRATO! Make a beautiful clarinet sound with no vibrato at first, then add carefully practiced vibrato.

[@rifcafcaf2391]

I play viola 😃

[@petehealy9819]

That makes a ton of sense! I've played fiddle for only a year and still struggle with inconsistent framing. Building muscle memory through a clear focus on octaves is bound to be much more effective than muddying it up with scales. Thanks for detailing the technique in your other comment, especially for us newer players!

[@drewdill1461]

Yes! Great advice!

[@mrs.sunfeather4089]

Thank you so much, I will definitely try this! I've been playing for 3 years now and always had trouble with intonation. I started quite late (at 15) so my teacher explained at my first lesson that it'll take me longer than I might expect... But after 3 years it's really bugging me that, even though my intonation got so much better, I'm still a bit off most of the time even though I've practiced scales for hours

[@TwoSetViolinEdits]

I actually tried this vid for 2 years and it hasn’t worked. Then, I just gave up and starting practicing more double stop scales (octaves, thirds, sixths, and ugh, tenths) and now, my intonation is mostly fixed.

[@protect_provide8031]

My teacher always said, intonation is marriage of consistent hand shape and ear training

[@hedingwei]

I agree, and at beginning, can also use eyes, like PitchAssist App does

[@LatchezarDimitrov]

@@protect_provide8031 The ear training is primordial, but do you know how to do it?

[@procarpenter1788]

"where are your parents?" I love it. You're a good man.

[@MurphyMusicAcademy]

I do my best

[@jamiecharleston9246]

Have you ever learned something and been really happy that you did , but then at the same time immediately thought where has this been all of my life??!! Thank you for this lesson. 90% is exactly how much it fixes the problem. The other ten percent is practice. I have never used Suzuki before but started playing again in my 40’s and decided to start with book 3 to begin building up good habits again. After a week of playing, I just finished the book. I had a feeling something just wasn’t right with my left hand! Thank you!! On to book 4!

[@Anne-hw1vh]

THANK YOU so much for this!! Exactly the advice I needed, about mechanical problems behind intonation issues! I’m an adult learning the violin for 4 years now, and I’ve been so frustrated with my plateaued intonation progress. Other intonation videos I’ve watched seem to focus quite a lot on accurate hearing (combined with practice) being the key to good intonation, but this isn’t really the problem for me. Now I realize my hand frame is probably the root cause of my intonation inconsistency! Awesome, informative (and entertaining) video!

[@richtrophicherbs]

Excellent stuff, but I find the background music a bit distracting. Good to see that you play without a shoulder rest. I've even stopped using a chin rest (as was standard practice until Spohr came along). I've also noticed that while many top players have one fitted they rarely have their chin anywhere near it - maybe their left cheek occasionally touches it, while the chin is to the right of the tailpiece as shown in Leopold Mozart's Treatise (minus chin rest of course).

[@gojoxsanzo]

Thank so much! I have been searching for videos like that for a looooong time. I am self-taught and so I am making loads of mistakes that aren't easily fixed without a teacher, but your video finally showed me what was wrong with my left hand and that is such a relief! I will start practicing it now, and when I will have money to have a teacher I hope he/she will be like you. Thanks again

[@yashpagare14]

you are literally one of the most underrated teachers out there on youtube.....good job brother...keep up the good work....🤘

[@VoteThirdPartyorFourth]

new to the fiddle, I enjoy his lessons most so far

[@melasonos6132]

some of the best instructional videos on KZbin. Deserves more subscriber's

[@lindakerr9023]

Very helpful. But I find the background music distracting and annoying. I don’t think you need it.

[@janegriffith8021]

Agreed! It’s frenetic and distracting.

[@Sjc43]

A lot off talking in the video contains are not coming and very less play sir pls give the valuble cmnts with your planig sir thank u🙏🏻

[@tomforsythe7024]

I just want to encourage everyone that you CAN develop good intonation. My pitch used to be terrible, but now it's excellent. Keep trying!

[@frayneashley1477]

Thank you for this. I have a severe hearing loss but a recent change of hearing aids has meant that I've gone back to playing my violin after a few years of switching to a piano. I'll never be able to hear the difference of flats or sharps very well and cannot hear a metronome above the sound of the strings. however I've found keeping an eye on a tuner helps with this..I will definitely do those exercises and double check where my elbow is in order to reach fourth finger notes. I'm old now so don't have years of practice left but I enjoy the challenge and if we reincarnate then I hope to begin playing when I'm a young kid.

[@deadmanswife3625]

There's a great app for phones it's called bandmate chromatic that used to be available for Android as well as iPhone but not Android anymore maybe the pro version

[@lindafitak]

This is an excellent lesson! I have discovered so many of my problems. I will have to watch this several times and focus on my hand frame. Thank you! I just started violin a few weeks ago, practicing scales only, and I don’t want to get into practicing mistakes, and then having to un-learn mistakes. I’m so glad I found this lesson!

[@rebeccamouse9294]

My teacher teaches all of this stuff and is excellent. These videos are great for me to watch to reduce the number of times she has to repeat herself! 😂

[@pauljohnson6233]

I love the 'spear' analogy. The concept of placing the fingers as slowly as the music will allow is something I've recently discovered without previously ever hearing this formally mentioned as 'a thing'. Your content is amazing, and your descriptions so articulate that I am an instant admirer of your work.

[@aldotanca9430]

I liked your explanations a lot, I think they are very useful. One thing I would change is the backtrack though. I mean, it is beautiful music and played very much in tune, but I would rather either listen to you or to the music. Perhaps it is the way I am wired, if there is music around part of my mind switches to following it, so in the end I feel the backtrack makes it harder to focus on your words.

[@MurphyMusicAcademy]

Well, to be fair, the music in the background IS me, haha. I did a few videos without a background track, and it just felt very bare. Could just be me, though

[@aldotanca9430]

@@MurphyMusicAcademy Fair enough. Then perhaps it is just me or the fact that I used headphones to listen to the video, which perhaps brings the backtrack more to the fore..

[@edmondfokkervancrayestein]

Same here. Good instructional vid. Many words though but truly disturbing here is the backtrack music (although i love beethoven 8)especially when you go to the practice room. Don’t fill up every free second with music. Pple need to focus on what ure saying and showing whereas truly musical plle will always wander of with the music in the background. Sounds great btw!

[@jgunther3398]

There's a more important issue behind all of this, which is how you listen. Someone can hear the slightest differences in pitch in a test, yet their horribly out of tune singing sounds in tune to them while they're singing

[@jenniferrosener4668]

Tobia, you are simply brilliant. Thank you so much.

[@AVToth]

One of the reasons it's hard obtain the independent movement of the 3rd and 4th finger is because fingers 1 and 2 have their very own personal ligament but 3 and 4 have to share a ligament.

[@SarumChoirmaster]

Hi there, Ken here. I am a 64 year old retired professional concert level violist who was also a principle in several groups. I have also taught hundreds of kids and adults. I am also a composer, and at one time a cathedral choirmaster and organist. Yes, I was that busy! Anyway, in my life, I discovered that starting out on simple double-stops first, then scales makes a whole lot more sense. Why? Because double-stops train your ear and muscle memory to play IN TUNE! Otherwise, practicing scales (out of tune) is a waste of valuable time. One should practice the octave (0 - 3) first, then add the 4th finger (4 - 0) with above open string, then the 4 - 1 octave - string below. This "sets" the left hand for other double-stops. Next comes 1 - 4 in third position. Why? Because you can then check your first finger against the below open string. Then next comes the 1 - 4 in fourth position checking your first finger against the open string above. Understand the logic? In this way the player (violin and viola) leans not only to play in tune, but becomes familiar with four positions. Later the player should tackle the half-step octaves above the first finger in first position and below the first finger in third position. Then comes the scale in octaves! By now, the player has trained their ear to play scales IN TUNE! SIMPLE DOUBLE-STOPS SHOULD ALWAYS COME FIRST BEFORE SCALES. I am amazed that all these great teachers didn't start things off this way. Instead they stressed checking notes in double-stops as you play scales. Scales are for three things: 1 - velocity, 2 - for learning to play passages and patterns in a position and 3 - for shifting. I studied with MANY great teachers, conductors and musician from all over the world. Well Ken, what about finger independence? Both double-stop and scales cover that.

[@pluutoop]

You might be senile cause you already wrote the same comment 10 months ago.

[@Sarah4Celtic]

I am trying to teach myself viola and only just started incorporating the left hand after months of bowing open strings. I‘m not sure I understand this technique but I want to. Could you tell me which doublestops to play for the C and G scale so I can adopt to D and A in first position? I am currently using @Fiddlehed‘s drones to check my intonation. Your advise is much appreciated 🙏

[@SarumChoirmaster]

Always start with G major first on the viola and D major on the violin. Then AFTER mastering all double stops on the two inner strings, go to the two lower strings and finally to the two upper strings. At first always start at the tip going up bow and then down bow. Try also stopping your bow when you get to the frog before going back to the tip. Both stopping the bow at the top and frog as well as smooth legato bow changes should be practiced. Think of and create all possible bowing combinations. The violinist KERSON LEONG should be watched and studied! When you practice start with 10 minutes, take a break, then 20 minutes, take a break, then 30 minutes, 45, 60 and so on. This helps to build your concentration. NEVER PRACTICE FOR MORE THAN 2 HOUR!!! Take a very long break then come back and practice more if you desire. @@Sarah4Celtic

[@LatchezarDimitrov]

@@SarumChoirmaster Everybody talk double stops.... Nobody ask themself what's a double stop! Take the octave- if you play it perfectly just the upper ton disapears because of harmonic overtones of the lower ton! Or you take the just fifth-impraticable also. One perfectly just fifth have 7 half tones horribly larges! In the violin you can check it very easely. Try to play just 4th EA empty string then play the same E with G empty string. If you change the place of this E for adjust the 6th GE what if it was not E but A440Hz??? If you have 4 empty strings with fixed places ALL other notes must have also fixed places! On the same violin tuned with perfect just fifths an other interval or accord. Take GEBE if GE sounds in tune BE will be horribly out of tune. Other example? GGCE - the octave juste GG then followed by 4th juste GC make the 3th major horrible CE empty string. Nobody think this way, why? How we want to have a good intonation if nobody never teach it correcrtly?!

[@gretel2506]

You definitely know what you are doing and you are a very very good violin teacher. It truly takes a vocation to be one, and you have it. Thank you!

[@csar1523]

Lmao, I've just listened to three differente versions of that same Ysaÿe sonata right before opening this video. Great channel, you are way underrated and deserve a lot more recognition. Keep up with the good work!

[@HeidiYisrael7]

Right On! I love Shradeck for intonation exercises

[@miolinista]

Could you please make a video about that remaining 10%??? 🥺 I’m struggling with Vieuxtemps 5 now and my professor wants me to get absolutely everything perfectly in tune 😅 I’m almost there but my intonation is still not consistent in the more complicated passages or even with big shifts in the slow parts and he always tells me that’s not professional… I’m trying my best but it sometimes feels a bit overwhelming, especially when no one else in my studio seems to be having problems with intonation or “perfecting” a piece in a very professional way. It would be really helpful for me if you could break that “10%” down or give me some tips on practicing more professionally in general. Thank you! :)

[@LatchezarDimitrov]

@@miolinista Begin with tuning your violin without perfect just fifths! Avoid also perfect just octaves and others intervals. Your ear must have a just idea how large the half ton must to be. To be the same for all used intervals or accords. Then maybe your intonation will be better...

[@lilianabarata]

Hey! I just found this video. I've been playing since April (I didn't start from zero because I learned the basics of violin 13 years ago but I never passed beginner stage) and I've been playing with no good left hand. Last class I had my teacher and I finally found what I was doing wrong and it was the thumb from my left hand! I'm now doing the corrections and I'm playing much more in tune. But I really need all the advices from your video and exercises because even if I'm doing better I still struggle with reaching the 4th finger and 3rd when my 2nd is low. Thank you so much for this video!!!!

[@SarumChoirmaster]

THE SINGLE GREATEST AND MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THE USE OF A METRONOME AND AN EXTREMELY CALIBRATED TUNER!

[@mschwambach]

You are a great teacher. Thank you so much!

[@TheChickwithguns]

Good advice, and you are addicting to watch. I am an adult learner. That’s unfortunate, but I didn’t get serious about my itch until I was in my 30s. My pinkie only curls when I try to get it to play quickly.🤪😖 It recoils in horror with sixteenth notes. Elbow advice was very interesting. I want to try that. I have small…small hands. Tall woman with hands made up of tiny bones fit for an eight year old…could God have a better sense of humor? You are so helpful. Please make lots of videos for intermediate adult players🫶🏻

[@altolows7635]

I'm a self taught adult beginning violist. If I keep my left elbow consistently forward and my left arm and wrist always set, then my fingers land consistently on pitch. But if my left elbow drifts back then my left hand moves back too and my fingers land on the wrong pitches. Biggest realization I've had so far.

[@LatchezarDimitrov]

What referency do you have for teaching right intonation, please? To tune A440Hz with a tuner isn't so complicated, but the rest? Do you know how big must be the universal half ton? Which is the best temperament today? How to have fixed places for all notes you use? Why is not recommanded to use just intonation to stay in tune? No one of these questions is easy, I know, but for eliminate 90% of the intonation problems you must think about!

[@bradykelso8682]

Excellent video. I learned so much here. Thanks!

[@morefiction3264]

I can't wait to try this when I get home.

[@mariapaganmusic]

I found this really helpful. I'm practicing again after a break and I feel like my intonation is really off all of a sudden, or maybe it always has been really off and I'm just noticing it now 😂

[@margaretbinns3134]

Got it ! Thanks I took notes . Loved your detailed explanation and demonstration . 💥

[@sarasamadi2196]

This was a very educating and funny video to watch!

[@PositivelyNice]

best tutorial on intonation ever! thanks!

[@bonniesteinmetz4712]

You are a brilliant teacher!!!!!😊

[@williamnichols6253]

When you hold the violin and the bow in your left hand casually while you're talking... You hold the bow by the stick with the tips of your fingers, careful not to touch the horse hair. You're the only KZbinr violinist who doesn't just wrap their hand around the whole bow when they do that. Maybe that's why I trust you.

[@luckylawrance]

Thanks a lot. With grade 1 exam due in two months, you have relieved me of my biggest fear

[@chiarawheatley]

The baby's face😂; an excellent video thank you for sharing!

[@jkrompee]

Thanks for the thought-provoking content! What was the dictionary source you quoted?

[@MurphyMusicAcademy]

That was a prop, haha. If you look up in the corner during that part of the video, it says “Murphy Music Academy Dictionary of Musical and Violinistic Lingo” which is obviously not a real musical dictionary. The idea of hand frame, however is very common in violin pedagogy. The definition I gave, however, was specifically worded and written by me

[@1cleandude]

Great lesson T but the background noise must go! It’s distracting and annoying! Thanks!🙏

[@handknitviolin]

I like the idea of moving the finger down slowly like a spear rather than a bullet. Thank you for the video. Do you think another contributing factor to bad intonation could be students not putting the violin up at the same angle every time they play? Or the violin "migrating" up or down as they clamp down on the shoulder rest in varying pressures play, causing the angle and height of the fingerboard to move? I'm wondering from personal experience if this was a cause of some past intonation issues in my own playing.

[@MurphyMusicAcademy]

Clamping down should never be an issue, as it is improper to hold the violin by clamping down with the neck and chin. The chief support and, therefore, support of contact should be the left hand. If the fundamental constant of the player’s body’s relationship to the violin is the left hand, then a migrating violin shouldn’t be an issue. Even if the violin moves, the relationship to the left hand is the same. Of course, the violin shouldn’t move at all, anyway. This would be the result of improper teaching. The first thing a teacher should do is solidify basic technique like this.

[@4thace]

What do you do when the first and fourth fingers need to cover a tritone? For example, 1st position, B-flat major, D string? Is it a regular frame only you practice reaching with the 4th finger (or reaching back for the E-flat)? I missed this

[@10prozenthimmel]

Thanks for all the instructions! Do your lessons transfer to viola 1 on 1? I am an adult viola student, no previous violin experience.

[@cfrost87]

You could apply the techniques to the viola. They are similar enough that many of the techniques are the same or pretty close to the same. You may have to adjust a bit due to the fact violas tend to be bigger.

[@songlovers3426]

Very informative. Thank you for this. I am beginner learning off youtube. This video really helps me :D

[@ElsweyrDiego]

should we study sevcik looking at our fingers or it's better not to look at them just training muscle memory?

[@LatchezarDimitrov]

If you play two different pieces of music, do you use the same place for all common notes? I ask that because I suppose that your violin is tuned with the same fifths or you have 4 fixed notes by definition...

[@cfrost87]

Yes. If two different pieces have a natural middle c, it would be played 3rd finger in the g string in both pieces. A 440 will be the open a string in any piece that has that note, unless its marked to play it 4th finger on the d string.

[@LatchezarDimitrov]

@@cfrost87 My question was not clear, sorry! The intonation is complicated because we use just intervals which aren't compatible. One just octave have 12 half tones smaller than the 7 half tones from the just fifth! You can't use just octaves if you tune your violin with just fifths! Otherwise You can't memorise right places of all notes you use if they change! You must use the same places for all notes like you have 4 empty strings! Before to play the next note we must imagine in our head how it sounds-this is the rigjt way to play in tune, to practicing our scales or pieces. Only the unisson must stay perfectly just! All other intervals must be TEMPERED! Using a tuner is usefull only for tunning your A440Hz. Why not to play chromatic scales on violin tuned with a bit narrow fifths? What's out of tune? When we play a note and later we play the same note but with different pitch because of the context that's playing out of tune!

[@claudio8313]

This is the best video for the subject because you say things in a realistic way to have an authentic intonation like a real violinist. At this point I have to ask you a question. Speaking about mapping of the left hand that adapts perfectly to the instrument ; violins sometimes have longer or shorter necks even if only a few millimeters. Can this thing cause problems of intonation for a violinist passing from one violin to another? If so,how quickly it resolves?

[@mohammads8126]

Hi I really like your videos. Could you do a video on shaking bow especially in the down bow I tried many exercises but not sure how to solve the core problem it still happens to a degree and i cant bow comfortably

[@jmg1884]

I would like to listen your intonation in Ysaye... can you show fou us?????

[@MathieuDeVinois]

Thank you. How important is it that the violin is tuned perfectly? Can it be that if it isn't tuned on the spot I teach myself a bad Handframe? Just asking as sometimes it seems not possible to tune it perfectly or it just gets a little out of tune within minutes.... What will end in tuning the violin more than practising.

[@LatchezarDimitrov]

@@MathieuDeVinois When you tune your violin remember that the strings are interdepended because the fixing point is commun! When you tune one string you detune other one! Must prevent it....

[@lynneludeke4598]

Your words are valuable, thanks. But please do stop the background music. And be aware that movements on camera can be very distracting, You move around a lot, which means some of us have to work quite hard to ignore all the energetic motions that aren’t related to what you’re trying to highlight. Trying to be helpful, here.

[@MurphyMusicAcademy]

This is one of my original videos. I have since stopped using background music. Thank you for your kind words and I’m glad you enjoyed the content!

[@rickschultz5159]

@@MurphyMusicAcademy I really like your videos and wish I could watch more of them, but I have a problem with motion sickness when I watch your videos since you are so animated. No worries...just my personal problem.

[@zulqarnainabdullah5891]

Alexander the Great didn't die, he became violin tutor.

[@NaranjoDeChilla]

Thank you

[@johnalexander301]

Do you advocate playing octaves to help develop proper hand frame?

[@MurphyMusicAcademy]

Octaves are great! But it won't replace things like Sevcik or Schradieck. If you can play the basic Sevcik exercises with ease, then practicing octaves and thirds is a great next step to developing the structure of your hand.

[@dolce9876]

Thanks.

[@sarasamadi2196]

Is it okay to use an app that checks whether you're in tune or not (such as Intonia) instead of a drone since the exercise is about mechanics and less about hearing the right intonation?

[@cfrost87]

Mechanics affect intonation. Use a drone.

[@joemmaeyog9346]

Thanks , man

[@FrankKolarekJr]

Great video!!!!!

[@violinbow9]

Thanks

[@mrsgingernoisette]

JEEZ THANK YOU

[@andreibirsan4541]

Fun fact ... at 0:36 that arpeggio from your "Murphy Music Academy" logo is so out of tune ... :-)

[@samuelrotberg]

Andrei, let's hear your rendition hot shot!

[@pluutoop]

Your face is out of tune.

[@jmg1884]

SEVCIK op1 is easy... i heard too much words e few playing

[@gabrielb426]

You're a good measure of what to look for in a quality teacher versus that kid I paid $30 for 3 sessions who looked like a slightly more chill version of Fez from that 70's show.

[@fcox7015]

I CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE :,,,,,,V

[@khosrotohidi7575]

Are you dancing or teaching ?

[@benjaminschonberg8839]

This is very helpful 👍

[@augustinechinnappanmuthria7042]

Super tips AUGUSTINE violinist from Malaysia

[@Azzne-]

lol her minuet 2 sounds way better than mine 🤣

[@strage88]

Three years huh? Well I guess after today it'll only be 2 years and 364 days.

[@gensoustudio6270]

isn't intonation flexible?

[@justusforviolin2719]

if you are playing with other people, no:)

[@cfrost87]

Depends on the context-- what key is the piece in? What other instruments are you playing with?

[@joefagan9335]

3:05 fail. Demonstration of hand frame in 7th position. Plays index finger and then shifts his frame backwards while opening whole hand to reach the fourth with pinky. That’s a perfect demonstration of playing without a hand frame (and why the fourth was flat). With hand frame his first finger should stay above or on the note first sounded - not thrown across the room.

[@MurphyMusicAcademy]

Your ear is excellent but your analysis is incorrect. The issue with the high A being a bit flat is due to the initial jump to 7th being too low on the E, not because of hand frame. The E and the A were in tune with each other (and this is because of hand frame), however I landed about 2 hz flat when I jumped into 7th position. However, the relationship between the two notes was fine. As for throwing the fingers back, if you watch closer you will notice that happens after I secure the 4th finger. The handframe is maintained until I start vibrating. Once a note in a high position is in place, you will want to open up the hand to help leverage the thumb more in vibrato.

[@joefagan9335]

@@MurphyMusicAcademy Ok - thank you for explaining

[@millymolly-mandy7369]

TURN OFF THE FLIPPING MUSIC WHEN YOU'RE TALKING! SO ANNOYING

[@jamessutton9323]

why can't you switch off the annoying distracting background music?

[@jenniferrosener4668]

NO PLEASURE IN MEDIOCRITY!

[@perlaursen1885]

Someone tried to ruin this video for all of us who are over 60, or has english as our second language. The speed of speech and the overdubbed muzak, does the trick, so we simply cant understand any sentence or information. Sad. I bet you are good at playing, but making instructive films, you are not Tarantino.

[@BestAmateurViolinist]

Honest to God you don't even know what you're talking about. If you want to talk about hand position, and the thumb, your hand should be striking the strings at 90° angles. This way, you have the maximum swing of the vibrato and it gives you better control of your tonal palette. This goes in conjunction with the placement of the thumb which should be loose at all times. You shouldn't be grabbing with your thumb. How do you do that with both? You pull out the Sevick shifting exercises, opus 8. The goal is to keep your thumb off of the neck as you go through the shifting exercise. That will force the fingers on your hand to go into a 90 degree angle. It will also teach you how to keep your thumb loose so that shifting becomes easier down the road. Your fourth finger should be the strongest finger so that you build your technique from the fourth finger down.. When you build from your fourth finger down, you should use the Schradieck exercises, I believe it's the first book. Again, you keep your thumb away from the neck which forces your fingers to come down from straight above. In order to build the strength, you literally hammer down your fourth finger Each time you come to the e fourth finger on the a- string. When you are first doing them, anytime you begin to have pain in your hand, you stop and rest the hand until the pain goes away. Then you pick it back up and you try to build upon what you have done. Eventually your hand becomes stronger and you won't have the pain. Then you should try doing the trill exercises by Kreitzer. As my teacher used to say, you have to develop the trill so that it sounds like the telephone bell ringing. You have to experiment with different speeds of the trill, the same as one should do with the vibrato. If you were to say things like these, people might understand how to achieve what they're trying to get. But you talk too much and you don't have anything that you're really saying. And I did not like you making a comment about the woman playing as if you were oogling her. That's not funny, it's juvenile. Stop talking and put the thing under your chin and start demonstrating. I don't need to hear about all of the other crap you talk about. Shame on you!

[@cliffhoward6281]

need to stand still speak slower and stop flailing arms

[@VoteThirdPartyorFourth]

.... surprised