Music Has An Irony Problem

[@james-nw9up]

The brat memes were a marketing strategy exploiting internet culture

[@Dondillilochevrolet]

Sad that kids have no idea how they’re being marketed to in every single way, everyday all day. They either forget or never knew that eveything is marketing esp in pop culture. It’s to sell, something - always.

[@james-nw9up]

@Dondillilochevrolet they'll figure it out

[@james-nw9up]

@@Dondillilochevrolet although I feel the thing with marketing is if enough people figure it out then they have to try something else

[@pabloguzman8472]

brat is much deeper than you think. the problem with this video is that the definition of irony is wrong. but thats because the anglo concept of literature is very weak. Shakespeare is not the genius you think he was

[@lurkio804]

@@pabloguzman8472 "brat is much deeper than you think" lol, lmao even

[@Fewe00]

There’s only really an irony epidemic in the extreme mainstream. If you step even slightly outside of it you will find some of the most beautiful earnest art humanity has ever made. This is the golden age of music if you’re willing to explore even a little bit.

[@dollarworldmarket777]

Ya but sadly it’s also taken some of those gems hostage

[@Uninterested69420]

Not really the amount of stuff released these days is too much especially when a lot of it is garbage you'd have to dig to find actual talented songwriters or musicians who still make music out of passion and a love for the art rather than trying to get attention and fame

[@Chris-mc2dt]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@Uninterested69420you really don’t have to dig to find that

[@hansolbling8141]

@@Uninterested69420 I mean in the music industry in particular id argue that the volume of music being produced for anybody w an internet connection to access easily isn't really,,,a bad thing. For years pre-internet if you wanted to listen to new music you would have to buy/borrow a physical copy or hear it on the radio, largely controlled by company execs dictating what could and could not hit the mainstream. For you finding talanted/passionate songwriters nowadays may be a chore but I consider myself a music lover and adore how quickly and easily I can find new music nowadays from people that have less than 1mill monthly listners on spotify.

[@stuartcarter4139]

@@Chris-mc2dtyou do

[@falsegarden]

The most obnoxious hipster you knew in 2007 is just the default personality type now

[@NeverEvenRaced]

Agree. The internet allows EVERYBODY to be a music snob.

[@Amazongrassmonster]

This is so spot on. The entirety of Twitter is like this.

[@fluckter_600]

True, i was thinking it for a while, not in solid words but this spells it out

[@Unknown-do3oi]

i don’t want to tell anyone abt what music i listen to cuz any music i think is good is going to either be called “basic” or made fun of 😭 no winning

[@caitlynsult2685]

i hate how you cant enjoy music anymore without being called a glazer or “dckrider”. it’s to the point where you can’t appreciate a work of art without someone labeling you that.

[@hadjitube]

im right there with you, that might need to be its own video

[@HotStrange]

That and “mid” are the worst things to happen to music discourse

[@CodyCockyote7046]

As a guy deep into punk/metal/noise and other niche styles of music. The best thing most of the time is to keep it to yourself. DONT MAKE IT YOUR WHOLE PERSONALITY. Just enjoy the art and try to go as deep as you are comfortable with. May sound kinda silly but that way modern music trends have never affected me at all. I dont care about what others do.

[@strictnine5684]

Tbh I never see this. I see ppl saying glazer when you’re out here shitting actively on another artists video comments and hyping up Kendrick type shit. And at that point you deserve it

[@daveraschke]

If you listen to the internet you'll always lose. Fuck em and enjoy whatever you enjoy

[@awesumsauce24]

I feel like hyperpop is also very important to mention when talking about the rise of irony in music, that genre is very post ironic in its love for nostalgic music trends such as nightcore and y2k era to 2010s era popular music, it's very much a culmination of everything pop music mashed together into a weird soup of a genre

[@thehearingaid]

killababylonkutz was one of my fav ironic albums back in the day. Parodying jungle and using the same vocal sample in every song, but also being a great jungle/breakcore record in it's own right. I think like a lot of hyperpop ironny and sincerity actually cross-over. Vengaboys playing bangface was great, but it's also great seeing artists like horsegiirl blowing up too. I also loved (can;t remember who it was now) but a major artist (I think grimes?) playing a boiler room set that was full of ironically corny songs / just top 40 songs in their sets.

[@magnezoleum]

​@@thehearingaid Bod did this

[@fluckter_600]

I remember reading a 100 gevs interview ans they said they were being completely sincere. They make genuine art, but irony culture has made anything that isn't standard a joke (because why else would they do it? /Sarcasm)

[@thehearingaid]

@@fluckter_600 I think maybe the term irony isnt quite right. 100gecs I'm sure do make music they want to make etc. But it is also embedded with a sillyness, a purposeful twist and something that can feel ironic because it will get some people's backs up.

[@blue-pi2kt]

​@@thehearingaidIsn't this the logical end place of the post modern through music though? The reinterpretation of the formerly mainstream by the explicitly counter-cultural, but eventually you just reach the bottom of that pit.

[@macaronisex]

Erm… MUSIC has an “IRONY” problem (That’s me repeating what you said in a mocking tone)

[@hadjitube]

you got my ass

[@OFFTOPdaP]

Doxxed

[@donaldissitt1082]

The Oedipal irony is twofold: not only do Oedipus and his father not know that the oracle's words would come true, but it is literally their attempts to avoid the prophecy which cause it to come true.

[@everthealtruist]

It's like situational Chinese finger cuffs.

[@nevaminddd]

I think more than what you said, the music industry is using algorithms and overanalyzing every little detail, making and marketing music. It's so formulaic that it just reeks of imitation and desperation. What they don't realize is alot of great popular music from the past was made in the studio organically or for fun with incredibly talented musicians (as in people who play real instruments), producers, engineers and songwriters. People with rich backgrounds in foundation genres like Blues, Jazz, Rock etc. You can't replicate that magic by overanalyzing everything and trying to fit into trends or gaps in the market and by attempting to bridge past references or styles that just come across as uninspired. At that point its not art its manufacturing.

[@hadjitube]

100% and I think you can track the rising popularity of artists like Mk.gee and Dijon as fans wanting a return to that music-first approach!

[@perfectallycromulent]

It always was a machine, even for the musicians considered to be great. The Supremes were more popular than just about anyone, and they got that way in part by spamming the world with 24 studio albums between 1962 and 1971. Check out the output of The Beatles in the 60s, or people like Stevie Wonder and David Bowie in the 70s. Pumping out an album a year or sometimes two. And it was often a machine powered by cocaine (David Bowie in particular was known for halting the recording process in the studio until a new pile of cocaine arrived after the first ran out).

[@donaldissitt1082]

Frank Zappa said something along these lines. He claimed that in the "old days," record executives were, quote, "cigar chomping old men," who self-professed not to know anything about art or music, and that this is exactly why people like Zappa, Beefheart, and other "weirdos" got a chance in the industry. The execs didn't claim to know what was hip and what wasn't, they just threw money at stuff until something worked. But "nowadays" (Zappa was speaking in 1987), the people who call the shots in the record companies are younger people who do claim to know what is and isn't hip, what will or won't get listeners excited. They do market research and hold focus groups before telling their artists what kind of track they should make. In short, they want to be tastemakers. Obviously, I don't think it actually has anything to do with whether "old dudes" or "young hipsters" are running the record companies, could still be just as many old people as before. But the modus operandi has shifted from "find artists and then see if the public will like them" to "determine what the public likes, then find artists who can be molded into that."

[@fp-ko7vg]

Great thread!

[@fluckter_600]

Reminds me of Sabrina Carpenter's "Espresso". That song is such a nothing burger of a pop song, but it was inescapable for weeks.

[@samwich2428]

This is clearest when you look at death grips. They were very sincere and steadfast in their massaging and detail. They constantly spoke out about irony in art and despite this they inherited the worst fan base of all time, who turned everything into a big meme. As a result they will probably never play live again or make new music

[@ivarent3784]

I got into them some months ago thanks to the memes, then I gave them a sincire listen and God, their songs have so much rage and feel so viseral, is great, truly sad what the internet made with them.

[@gongster5821]

I doubt we’ll ever see a band like death grips unfortunately

[@SpookNukem]

Year of the snitch is the most amazing commentary of this. Hard to believe they were able to make such a hard hitting statement about that topic all the way in 2018 (not to mention the album was probably in production since 2016). Its a shame the message was lost on a lot of people (mostly due to the weirdness of the album) but its also how amazing as it seem like that was also part of their intention.

[@samwich2428]

@@SpookNukem they were insanely ahead of their time

[@jimmyyusko2189]

Watching videos of their shows when they started touring again last year was legit enraging and depressing. People in the crowd just acting like total attention-seeking dickheads, bringing props like those rainbow parachutes to the show and dressing up like clowns in propeller hats just for the sake of memes and making a TikTok, totally just disregarding the band. Like nothing can be treated with sincerity it seems.

[@D3athL1vin]

I can give a solid overview post ironic appeals now because of oversocialization people are so desperate for social acceptance that they will accept any meme or in-joke to achieve a sense of belonging the healthier route would be having a stronger identity based in solid principles before choosing to just parrot any meme for attention

[@fluckter_600]

"Socialization", but not really. It's all very parasocial. People have been very lonely, so anything that looks like connection is highlighted

[@BillLaBrie]

Yeah but that might bring in discussions of G*d and we can’t have that.

[@D3athL1vin]

@@BillLaBrie your comment has antiwoke undertones which is just as responsible for artistic stagnation imo

[@BillLaBrie]

@@D3athL1vin Your comment is thoroughly ensconced in lit-crit psychobabble. It stares into its own a-hole.

[@D3athL1vin]

@@BillLaBrie If 'psychobabble'(social theory references) is too much for you, maybe stick to worshiping your god instead of pretending you're oppressed for parroting the OG status quo. Brave stuff. 😴

[@notreallyafamousartist695]

They really did do the word “based” horribly. Now it’s some political dogwhistle smh. When I was saying it everyone would ask me what it means, now I can’t even say it because they’ll think I’m some radical 😭

[@t0x1ctat3r]

real man, I think it's come a long way from being just something coming from the based god TYBG

[@videocritic2087]

Based did come from 4chan lingo from the early 2000s, but the word now seems somewhat detached from that community

[@matthewsonne4675]

...being based isn't being cool? 😦

[@Derekjordanger]

Shhhh

[@teratoma.]

"based" originated from politcal rght wing extremsm

[@rainyday607]

i love hearing people talk about this because it makes me feel less crazy. what is supposed to be art just feels like marketing, nobody uses words the way they're meant to be used, and everything is a joke all the time.

[@longboi2674]

i dont think its a music has an irony problem its more that alot of popular music isnt sincere its a multi billon dollar industry with alot of artistic having ghost writers and marketing teams telling them what to do and how to say it and social media promotes and enhances it in all honesty its good to have some bit of irony we shouldnt be snobish pruds n act like nothing is above humor

[@hadjitube]

for sure title is def an oversimplification. i agree with you

[@teodoraappiah2899]

I agree and I would like to add that mainstream artists now are trying to hard to seem sincere and relatable when they're clearly aren't. I feel like it was more clear that the big popstars from the past (especially from the mid '90s to late 2000s) had a big team behind them that created the music and the character around them

[@Charles.Tobias]

Thank you for your wise words, Rex Orange County

[@hadjitube]

when the rex orange county lookalike competition happens it will be my time to shine

[@Woefulwelshman]

I support ethel cain for talking about this, it must be frustrating putting a ton of effort into music and just seeing everyone making memes about it. The irony epidemic is crazy, you could go 20 minutes on instagram reels without seeing a single sincere post. I dont think its healthy for us, and definitely not healthy for music

[@tayloreh]

Irony has been conflated with coolness. And its a failsafe because it turns something that risks being seen as 'cringe' into 'cool'... all it takes is just enough of a tweak into the absurd that you question its sincerity. But ultimately, living/performing in an ironic and detached way just continues to perpetuate and egg on the underlying suffering that inspired that ironic detachment in the first place. Its become far too normal and Ive noticed it too. Im glad she vocalized it in a way that sparked discussion

[@devonboyer626]

This is great! It reminds me of when someone starts singing, but then they start doing it in a goofy voice because they don't want to risk experiencing an honest reaction.

[@modernphrenology]

Life has become a KZbin comment section.

[@rckbttm_]

I think the recent trend of everything being under ten layers of irony acts as a way to shield your ego. Be too sincere in your work and it's your actual feelings being hurt when you face criticism, but be ironic and pretend it's a joke and you can just laugh *with* everyone and pretend it was all a joke instead of having them laugh *at* you. I'm honestly fine with people presenting themselves however they want, and I think taking yourself too seriously can be just as much of a detriment as being too ironic can be, but it's sad to see people so afraid of being genuine.

[@bobthycat3914]

Let's not forget that 'Cringe Culture' plays a key role in forming a society where self-expression has to be masked.

[@chrisrockett5897]

Cringe culture died.

[@Propfellax]

​@@chrisrockett5897But its consequences are still felt today

[@nottristantrustme]

I see Basedgod, I click

[@NStarX9]

Thumbnail cheat code

[@t0x1ctat3r]

TYBG!!!

[@disillutmusic]

At what point does irony stop being ironic? When do you realize the thing you were being "ironic" about was just a coping mechanism for genuinely experiencing something in a way you weren't "supposed to"? I assume that's what post-irony is, but I ask myself that often.

[@computeredfemale]

That's not what post irony is

[@tumultoustortellini]

That's not what post irony is (ponder upon the fact that you don't know where I agree with @panfilolivia, just that I'm echoing them. That's something closer to what post-irony is)

[@NeXaSLvL]

you can't make a video about irony without mentioning JREG

[@RokoNovakGlazba]

Not to brag but I saw the chill guy meme on tumblr from the creator before it got popular

[@thomasherrington7237]

Hadji, the chill guy meme has been around for like a month. It has had a major resurgence but i saw streamers getting trolled by him being inserted in the arthur poster in like October. It didnt even get called the 'chill guy'. It was a bit about people trying to sneak there own original characters into preexisting properties, as some sort of fake mandela effect type thing. So even if you havent seen it around, its been around pre commodification. It was a good bit back in october. The fact that its been normiefied is kinda sad yet expected cause this is the internet.

[@hadjitube]

yea ur totally right i guess it was a slightly longer run. but still the explosion of it in that two day period was pretty crazy

[@thomasherrington7237]

@hadjitube yeah I totally agree. The Internet will only get better at commodifying memes and culture into the machine. That's why finding community, on the Internet or even better, IRL, is so important.

[@Sonderasf]

Everything I feel about “My Original Character” has been said here perfectly

[@danielsmokesmids]

@@thomasherrington7237its sad that the underground music scene has basically been destroyed by this. we arent all in the same group chats like it was 10 years ago. its hard to find people for genuine collaborations

[@yurmomsboifrend]

I literally just got food and opened KZbin to find a video to watch while I eat and God blessed me with a Hadji video, thank you sir 😭❤

[@Dayman667]

Shoutout to Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty for predicting social media and the world afterwards. Especially the part about sifting through the endless amounts of meaningless garbage that we post collectively.

[@lottie8659]

This was awesome, man. Loved the examples. Might be my new favourite music commentary channel.

[@jacobhartman10]

Hey! Great content! I first came across your content in 2022 or so on TikTok and I really think you’re hitting your stride with this type of video. Keep up the good work!

[@mimejrtwemiwmiw5634]

Loved Ethel Cain's video about her favorite gay porn. I was expecting to watch a funny and ironic video, but then she genuinely talked about stuff she liked and I found it interesting. It's refreshing

[@Dawn95284]

Yes that was great

[@Daliot9]

Result ? People making memes about the video’s introduction and going viral online 🤷‍♂️

[@lalaland2107]

The example you gave about how fast the memes spread to corporations has been going on for a few years. Yes, it would take months, then fewer, then only one month, but for a while now, all it takes is a few days or weeks.

[@hadjitube]

for sure it just gets faster and faster every time haha

[@nekoill]

"Hello, Garage here" Jreg circa 2020 I think? Irony Is A Dead Scene - The Dillinger Escape Plan circa fucking 200BC

[@caitlynsult2685]

damn this video popped up in my feed again, well now that’s it’s december, and 2024 is over, i kinda wanna reflect on brat, post irony and the brat summer trend im a longtime charli fan, for a long time i was a casual fan from 2013-2022, when she dropped crash, and i decided to listen to her discography way more and interact with fans more, so seeing the brat sucess, and charli FINALLY being seen more than the boom clap or fancy girl made me so happy, but then once cooperations got on the brat trend(and even other politicians) the magic was slowly fading, same with the memes. now around the end of brat summer, i started to realize how brat summer wasn’t really focused on the music, it was just popular aesthetic wise, most people who engaged with it did NOT care about the songs, except for apple, 360/365(only talking about the regular edition of the album btw) it suck’s since there’s so many gems on brat, so i is a beautiful ballad for charli’s deceased friend sophie, sympathy is a knife is such a strong and relatable song and means girls is really immersive (also the piano solo goes hard!) so seeing a bunch of people act like the biggest brat or charli fans when they only care about the aesthetic and not the actual content of the same makes kinda sad :( sadly there’s a lot of bandwagoners from a lot of big artists this year (kendrick bandwagoners especially lol), but really goes to show that even if your album is great, the general public will just push your album as a meme and aesthetic when it’s more than that, ok rant done, great video :D

[@whatwhatwfeenfeen]

tbh i think a lot of people in general have an insecurity about liking weird or offputting music and try to coax it in jokes to justify it and show they are not weird or offputting too

[@stephaniegarfield29142]

1:27 i'm not gonna waste your time" 3 minutes later: "Websters defines irony as The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning. An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning. Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs."

[@hadjitube]

damn is there an adjective to describe the situation i have found myself in

[@mvndetta]

the irony of putting a cutaway at 1:50

[@hadjitube]

hahahah there’s levels to this shit

[@clubdoompsx]

6:14 Kanye jumpscare

[@sethtrey]

postironic memefication is my Roman Empire.

[@krvzito]

video starts at 19:38

[@hadjitube]

thats my favorite part

[@tayloreh]

Find myself coming back to this. Excellent video. Irony and surrealism has made me deeply sad since COVID. Every piece of such content is a reminder of a deep bitterness people feel, where even surrealism and imagination doesn't seem to quite offer an escape anymore from the illusion of freedom... especially when that sort of content becomes someones main source of income. Theres always a darkness underneath it. Even something as endearing and silly as the 'Dirt Man' or the 'Loam/Lobotomy' videos make me feel a bit sad. And then encouragement/inspirational videos have the opposite effect - 99% of content feels like a tactic for views and survival rather than something sparked from a genuine curiosity.

[@johnbeck2837]

There’s so much music that’s being made right now that is real, sincere, and thoughtful, all you have to do is stop listening to what you have been listening to and open your mind, maybe discover music from pre80s you prolly never would’ve given a chance. The irony of this is yall can find what yall want in full sincerity but yall would rather complain about what yall keep wanting to watch or listen to that’s “ironic”. Get your head out the sand

[@tayloreh]

@johnbeck2837 I don't dispute that its out there and I could find it with some arduous searching and algorithm training (probably on Tidal), but even then, its more theres a taste of insincerity in most modern music I hear regardless of its approach - I tend to listen to the old giants as I want something to aspire to, to challenge me to get better. 85% of that comes from stuff from artists a lot older and wiser than me who are often far from the mainstream, maybe 15% from up and comers and current hitmakers. Mainly I'm saying my social media algorithm isn't showing much beyond the ironic to me very much, or when it does, its for other superficial reasons like its a nostalgic cover or a pretty girl singing it. I'm someone who myself make lots of heartfelt unironic/not depressing music, but I've gotten way more reaction to stuff thats sarcastic and tinged with humor, irony and bitterness. It creates a feedback loop that has made a lot of artists feel they need to create an ironic distance to please the algo, which is hardly a way to live. And also, part of us craves that stuff, cos it puts the blame on the world and lets us vent frustration. It serves a purpose, but I get the sense its been coopted by what its criticizing. We've crossed a tipping point again, which happens whenever anything is uniquitous.

[@Uninterested69420]

Crazy how music is just an act these days Artists acting like they gove a shit when its obvious they just want fame were living in the worst time for music tbh

[@DIGITALSWOON]

i don’t think irony is the opposite of sincere. you use it to express something you feel, or even hide something you feel, but it’s still sincere since it’s coming from the same place. i don’t think anyone who uses irony doesn’t understand this. the opposite is sincerity is just boldfaced apathetic lying.

[@hadjitube]

thats fair i think i agree with you, it's not a perfect fit. just like, one context of the word sincerity

[@RevIsnot]

We're really just witnessing the first internet generation getting old. It's completely new territory. 2c Ween have been doing this since '93 TISM too. You could argue Ween were the first memers.

[@jorisvandenhoek6251]

With Ween you never really know if they're joking or sincere. I always assumed it was both at the same time. Irony and sincerity layered on top of one another like a big delicious sandwich

[@meMetallo]

The problem is not Irony but post-irony, and it is not only in music

[@dxfifa]

The problem is most sincerity is very shallow and lacklustre in its level of insight these days in music. Either pretentious and pseudo deep, or just lacking in real meaning. Also, it feels like people are catching on to the lack of real sincerity in pop music, as ultimately they are creating a sellable product

[@AR-ym4zh]

I think some of the most sincere and best music in all of human history is being made right now. Maybe its a you problem?

[@tumultoustortellini]

@@AR-ym4zh Name some?

[@ivarent3784]

I rather have a shallow sincerity then more ironic stuff tbh...

[@tumultoustortellini]

@@AR-ym4zh name some?

[@Gio90210.]

@@AR-ym4zhcould you name a few artists who make that music? I disagree but I’d love to be proven wrong with some cool recommendations

[@duno6552]

What I got from this video is that Lil B is the GOAT

[@faqsluvsu]

my artist name is faqs and I pronounce it as facts as well, we are so up

[@NStarX9]

I don’t think the next big artist is promoting in KZbin comments just work on the music gang

[@ethocookin]

@@NStarX9I would usually agree with u but he ain’t even really promoting he was just watching the video about irony and noticed something ironic so he commented it

[@naoh8808]

I seriously needed to hear this video, thank you bro.

[@flashpants3453]

Hang on...HW Fowler's Modern English Usage is one book, and Kingsley Amis's The King's English is another, they were published 70 years apart, and Amis refers to Fowler all the way through his book bc Fowler is the touchstone for this sort of reference book. I was SO bewildered...you had Amis's book in your hand!!

[@hadjitube]

lmaooo oops I may have bought the wrong one on amazon

[@SYNTAAX84]

This is a really good channel. Unc is gonna blow up sometime in the near future, I just know it

[@NickGuy0320]

Lil b wasn’t even remotely ironic…people just didnt get that he was abstract

[@erikcarlson6374]

I gave up sarcasm in conversation and embraced sincerity because it helps me keep my own BS straight. So I'm dead sincere when I say this was well written and I appreciate your content. You got my subscribe, keep it up.

[@BenCaesar]

This was brilliant, love the dual audience insight. 🔥

[@vrssxo]

Great video bro

[@Uninterested69420]

Its so obvious that people these days are making music for fame and attention its so cringe seeing these people promote their shitty songs on IG or tik tok Miss when music was made with passion and a love for the art What a shame

[@jdtimecapsule]

Unironically a fire video!

[@kojacked]

This is a great video. Love videos that cover topics I didn't even think about before. But it's so true people are apathetic toward anything sensed to be too idealistic or involved. And I love how you brought up a clear reason why that could be, which is the state of our society in regards to things like the wage disparity. Hard to believe in anything when the world seems like it doesn't care about you.

[@kuroishiofficial]

the great thing about creative endeavors is that there are no "problems"

[@hadjitube]

for sure. this isnt so much about the creative act itself. more of the stuff surrounding it

[@sentry358]

19:04 bro started transforming

[@hadjitube]

@@sentry358 😭😭😭 i didnt even know that happened til now

[@aaaa-fq1ue]

It's also interesting how the most empowered creators create ecosystems of less confident ppl who instead of creating their own source material, devote themselves to reviewing or creating 'content'. It's not wrong, just less sophisticated and more regurgitative

[@Jamielicavespring]

Another great video. I don’t listen to any of these people but I like to stay in the loop.

[@jorisvandenhoek6251]

I think I know what you mean, but honestly I've always seen alot of sincerity on the internet, maebe even more than irony. I've been seeing alot of people lately saying that nobody takes anything seriously anymore... I disagree, or maebe I just dont get it. I surf the web quite a bit and I see plenty of people taking things seriously. Just because people enjoy joking around for fun doesnt mean they don't take anything seriously. Maebe most of the irony is just going over my head or something idk...

[@hadjitube]

i think the core of what i was trying to get at is theres so much irony on the internet that many people dont even know when others are being genuine or not hahah. but we all have very different experiences on here and have our own algorithms so its totally possible!

[@jorisvandenhoek6251]

​@@hadjitubethat could be true. Maebe I just assumed people were being genuine when they were actually being totally ironic. We'll never know...

[@detailedinfodisplay5210]

I think about this constantly. I understand people are upset these days and need levity, but its exhausting when everything is a stupid fucking joke or meme. Make something real or cool for once. Thankfully, there's a lot of genuineness from smaller musicians, especially in the punk and electronic scenes.

[@redherringoffshoot2341]

didn't know that Ethel Cain has ASD till just now

[@danielsmokesmids]

shes so real for that

[@twincherries6698]

Theres a famous link for that, not surprising

[@lepidoptery]

16:04 i also called it gamefax 😤

[@Doombia]

This was also true in the 90s. And the kids of today's parents were those ironic 90s kids.

[@wrisst1712]

but what happens when you sincerely like something that either is ironic, or your enjoyment started that way. or if the artist is genuinely trying to make something creative or subvert culture through irony. the line becomes very blurred

[@NPGLAMB]

Seeing lil b on the thumb got me sweating. I listen to him unironically. He was my top artist for the longest time on last.fm 😅😅

[@hadjitube]

hes awesome man. once you get to his part in the video you'll see he's here for positive reasons haha

[@NPGLAMB]

@ I saw that part and it was great to hear his praises. What you said was true

[@danielsmokesmids]

TYBG❤ he inspired me to never let other people choose my swag. so thankful i found him at a young age

[@Woefulwelshman]

real based god disciples listen to him unironically, dw

[@alibearbass]

I enjoyed this, sincerely.

[@krashvm]

this has to be one of the best structured video essays I've seen on youtube for a while. your thesis is one that i have thought about for a while but I've never had the time to formulate a strong argument for it but you have done an exceptional job. you clearly aren't some random guy trying to make 'video essays' about whatever is trending and calling it an essay when it ever so loosely follows an oversaturated formula and youtube needs more people like you. i never comment on youtube videos but truly i was amazed by the coherency and consistency of your argument, keep doing you man!

[@shaftmastr7753]

Lil b is one of the most sincere artists of the last 50 years

[@MauriceMossisitnot]

Wow KZbin is recommending this to me during my hyperfixation on an overly ironic nihilistic jazz drummer artist

[@jackievanhelen]

what an unbelievably excellent video. keep it up because hard work gets it due

[@jupiter_424]

i’m glad more people are talking abt this. love hayden ☆

[@m-tetsuo]

And here I am, living in a world where irony in music and film has been dead since 2012

[@m-tetsuo]

I want irony!

[@bendrake9741]

Honeybun train was my most listened to song this year. Tybg

[@Kaatohh]

A PROBLEM? I LOVE WEEZER! Also as someone who has mutuals w/ Hayden / Ethel I def think she is a big part of the issue. Love her but - the irony is silly. Iykyk. I think she was trying to exorcise out her own issues with that writing and that's why it caught on so much.

[@OxidizeTunes]

irony poisoning is real

[@NineInchFailz]

Didn’t David Foster Wallace point this problem out like 25 years ago

[@hadjitube]

Yep

[@narutojaja111]

how?

[@992eejb]

what is hyper pop if not the embracement of irony I feel like Rebecca black is The Person to look at when talking about ironic music consumption. We all knew what happened when she first released music. But recently, she's been killing it as a DJ. She dropped an insanely good hyperpop remix of Friday and that was honestly how i started listening to her again. (also, no way ur the guy who wrote goofy, i was obsessed when it dropped)

[@borgwardd24]

Wooooah woah woah, I Love You was produced by Jpeg Mafia!? 🤯

[@treyluciano5139]

Good video man. First time viewer. Earned my sub. Keep at it man.

[@djvoid1]

All in place of courage

[@kakapyli]

fransk ocean🥶🥶

[@samthelad4313]

Thank you Based God

[@rapastronaut77]

great piece

[@scottgriegermusic]

People need to just get off their phones.

[@redbulloo7]

Amazingly thoughtful video. Thank you.

[@monkfruit2389]

8:59 I've always thought his name was Jpeg and was so confused by you not pronouncing it like that right away.

[@monkfruit2389]

It's J- Reg like regular, which is why I thought his name was Jpeg. I feel dumb lol I had just accepted at face value that someone named themself jpeg 😓

[@hadjitube]

hahahah i had to google how to say it to be sure because i honestly was not sure

[@howironic5733]

Are there any good rap communities where people post new rappers with actual talent? Those underground instagram pages are not it

[@hadjitube]

what kind of rappers do u listen to?

[@howironic5733]

@@hadjitube literally anything, I like rappers who produce for themselves like william crooks or jpegmafia, or unique aesthetics like yabujin or lil ugly mane

[@Dcyaboi33]

Great critique and explanation 👍

[@Ajajd-x1u]

Link that stair wall thing

[@hadjitube]

its from a brand called Belief nyc but I don’t think they sell it anymore

[@Ajajd-x1u]

bummer. Hey great video man, go to bed it’s late

[@hadjitube]

hahah im in europe rn!

[@Ajajd-x1u]

fck yea mate! 3 am here cheers

[@emnyolc]

just singing the chorus of the songs you're referencing instead of cutting in a clip was a based move

[@nickdoe7770]

I think what's at the core of the issue is that there is just so many more things to do that are all competing for your limited free time. And most of these new things to do are online rather than in person, too. Subcultures, especially those in music, were and are created by people actually gathering in person and creating art that they all vibe with. We have to actually get out there and put the effort in, like they used to back in the days before the internet and the Age of Distraction. Go out and learn your local scene, and make friends with like-minded individuals.

[@hadjitube]

for sure. and the next level is - now there are probably less local scenes to join, and those scenes that are there are less vibrant, because so much is condensed to online-only spaces. it's an amazing thing that anyone can make a full-fledged song in their bedroom with limited resources now, but that also means you're meeting less musicians by default in your orbit wherever you live. that kinda sucks!

[@chikari123]

Maybe bc I was 15 when wanton soup came out but me and my friend group at the time were in disbelief and immediately became fans after. My old fb prolly got a few “thank you based gods” on there lmao but yeah man he pioneered a lot of shit quiet as its kept.

[@detailedinfodisplay5210]

16:04 GameFAX 💯

[@benito1513]

I hate non chalant culture. It’s not fun

[@bhristianity]

6:00 i don’t think it was boring

[@hadjitube]

hahah appreciate u

[@TheMikeFloyd]

Hadji you real for this one

[@TheMikeFloyd]

Tbh maybe your best and most insightful yet

[@cowgrll]

this was a great video, hadji! i really enjoy your music and i’m happy to hear you have more coming our way soon. these compliments are unironic, i promise.

[@ThommyMckGoaty]

Jumped by mostly PNB Rock buddy got the curse